Power kicks the Thai way

[Violent Designs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=witJISymkWo

This is a good light/medium level workout (depends on your conditioning) you can do, even if you don't have a full banana bag it's OK. Yodsanklai is probably the hardest kicker p4p in Thailand right now.

Just drill body kicks over and over again, knees, push kicks/side kicks and punching combinations.

Important to note, watch how he does his thrust kick (right one) at 0:51. That style is for more power and damage.

At 0:57 notice how he throws the knees, thrust the body outward by pushing off the supporting foot. Don't force your knee so high, focusing thrusting forwards with the hip and throw your weight into it.

Watch the kicks closely, especially the footwork. A lot of people have this weird idea that the "step" you need to take to line up the kick (if you want to even take a step) need to be big or exaggerated but this is not true, it can be very, very minute movement in the footwork.

Another trick is to forcefully "step-into" your supporting leg, it can just be a TINY step or movement like I stated but it's the way you drive into the ground, and then explode back up for a bit of extra power and momentum.

And oh, don't keep your knees locked man. Too many Kickboxer movies of kicking trees, LOL. Bend your knee it should slam out.

Remember the adage my old Thai trainer always tells me:

"You don't kick with your leg, you kick with your hip."


edit: waiting for CMA people to tell me something wrong with these kicks. :D

[Dragonzbane76]

Nice!


edit: waiting for CMA people to tell me something wrong with these kicks.

because a lot of them wouldn't know a real kick

[David Jamieson]

why does every thread need to be an attack on kung fu practice.

you don't think muay thai is a traditional martial art? lol

[taai gihk yahn]

he is clearly not using any "qi" in his movements

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I thought it was gonna be this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wcTrmW9OLE

Old School Hardcore.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nicely done, I am not a fan of his punches but that left round is a thing of beauty.

[David Jamieson]

bag training? really?

can you guys put up even more boring videos? lol

pad training shows more...how about a pad training drill? lol

[SPJ]

a kick is just a kick

a kick is not just a kick (tactics and strategy, opening--)

a kick is just a kick.

1. accuracy and speed are important, too

power wise, only need sufficient or enough, since you are kicking the soft spots, such as temple, ribside, abdomen, groin, chin, knee shin ---

low kick, crescent kick, axe kick, side kick, point kick---

shaolin has 64 or 88 leg method or kicking methods

how many methods in thai kicks?

2. tactics and strategy

what are in thai kicks?

3. power is enough to do the job, no need to persue more and more power in the kicks

use a iron rod or a weapon, your leg is stronger than an iron rod?

hwat are weapon training in thai way?

4 how to defend against kicks?

----

[David Jamieson]

in muay thai there is a weapons element that is fast falling by the wayside in favour of the current iteration which is for sport fighting.

but Krabi Krabong is the Thai version of weapons arts.

[Knifefighter]

why does every thread need to be an attack on kung fu practice.

you don't think muay thai is a traditional martial art? lol

Because you have clueless kung fu "sifus" like that moonymantis guy who claim to have studied kung fu for 40 years coming here telling people they are not supposed to drop their arm when kicking.

[Knifefighter]

in muay thai there is a weapons element that is fast falling by the wayside in favour of the current iteration which is for sport fighting.

but Krabi Krabong is the Thai version of weapons arts.

And the guys who do the sport fighting version of Krabi Krabong are light years ahead of the guys who do the pretend version.

[David Jamieson]

Because you have clueless kung fu "sifus" like that moonymantis guy who claim to have studied kung fu for 40 years coming here telling people they are not supposed to drop their arm when kicking.

why do you deliberately target individuals in your gripes?

there's a whole crapload of kicks that keep the hands up.

thai cutting kick is pretty strong kick. they train the crap out of it.

the one kick practiced 10,000 times so to speak really does apply to MT practice.

It's foolish to not respect the MT kicking training or methods. I know a couple fo guys that have feet that are faster than some peoples hands. They train Muay Thai and they are lightweight guys who on occasion enter a bout or two.

But, I also know a kung fu guy who teaches that has wicked kicks and training for them and he's not MT at all.

then I know quite a few standard kickboxer guys that have awesome leg control and power too.

But like you, if you cannot relate something to your experience, you are going to question it.

Time changes everything.

You claim to have years of training and experience and yet find it difficult to be civil a lot of the time. That means that you haven't learned a lot about how to relate with others well and you are narrowing your own ability to pick up on something useful yourself.

a wise man can learn more from a fool than the other way around in other words. :)

[EarthDragon]

I was uust about to say the same thing David j

Quote:
edit: waiting for CMA people to tell me something wrong with these kicks.

because a lot of them wouldn't know a real kick




dragon, for what reason must you feel the need post soemthing adn then automatically attack adn put down Kung fu?

[David Jamieson]

And the guys who do the sport fighting version of Krabi Krabong are light years ahead of the guys who do the pretend version.

There are extremely few practitioners of actual krabi krabong. Even in Thailand itself it's a rarity.

there's a sport version of krabi krabong? I'd like to see that.

sword fighting for real? cooool! lol

[Sardinkahnikov]

is there even such a thing? i searched youtube for krabi krabong but it only turned up demos.

[Knifefighter]

a kick is just a kick
No it's not. A kick is just a kick only to the uninitiated. Like all human performance activities, the experienced person knows there are many differences in any technique.



1. accuracy and speed are important, too
Yes they are, but power is probably most important in unarmed combat.




shaolin has 64 or 88 leg method or kicking methods

how many methods in thai kicks?

# of methods is completely irrelevant.



2. tactics and strategy

what are in thai kicks?

Much deeper understanding of tactics and strategy than kicks that come from systems that don't compete.


3. power is enough to do the job, no need to persue more and more power in the kicks

Really?? Does someone actually think this?


4 how to defend against kicks?-

Thai defenses to kicks are unparalleled.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

a kick is just a kick

a kick is not just a kick (tactics and strategy, opening--)

a kick is just a kick.

1. accuracy and speed are important, too

power wise, only need sufficient or enough, since you are kicking the soft spots, such as temple, ribside, abdomen, groin, chin, knee shin ---

low kick, crescent kick, axe kick, side kick, point kick---

shaolin has 64 or 88 leg method or kicking methods

how many methods in thai kicks?

2. tactics and strategy

what are in thai kicks?

3. power is enough to do the job, no need to persue more and more power in the kicks

use a iron rod or a weapon, your leg is stronger than an iron rod?

hwat are weapon training in thai way?

4 how to defend against kicks?

----

I would rather know 4 or 5 good, powerful kicks that work than 64 flashy kicks that dont. Quantity is not always quality.

[Dragonzbane76]

dragon, for what reason must you feel the need post soemthing adn then automatically attack adn put down Kung fu?

not an attack, it's a factual statement. I've seen plenty of kung fu schools that couldn't kick worth there weight.

honestly, have you been to many other schools?

[Knifefighter]

why do you deliberately target individuals in your gripes?
LOL... before, you were giving people a hard time for generalizing. Make up your mind. Are you going to be giving people a hard time for generalizing about kung fu or are you going to give them a hard time about talking about specific instances?

Try to at least be consistent with your clueless b.s.


there's a whole crapload of kicks that keep the hands up.
Most kicks against resisting opponents require one to drop a hand for counterbalancing and developing power. Of course, systems or people that don't fight and compete regularly haven't figured this out.



You claim to have years of training and experience and yet find it difficult to be civil a lot of the time. That means that you haven't learned a lot about how to relate with others well and you are narrowing your own ability to pick up on something useful yourself.

a wise man can learn more from a fool than the other way around in other words. :)

With experience comes the ability to spot bullcr@p.

[Knifefighter]

There are extremely few practitioners of actual krabi krabong. Even in Thailand itself it's a rarity.

there's a sport version of krabi krabong? I'd like to see that.

sword fighting for real? cooool! lol

It's done with sticks.

[SPJ]

power issue has limits for certain kicks.

spinning kicks or tornado kicks

not done right hurt your spine---

so what is your best kicking method?

thai or other wise

[SPJ]

my favorite are golden scissor and scorpion kicks

they exist in shaolin and mantis

they are hidden kicks, you do not need immense power to do damage.

----

[David Jamieson]

LOL... before, you were giving people a hard time for generalizing. Make up your mind. Are you going to be giving people a hard time for generalizing about kung fu or are you going to give them a hard time about talking about specific instances?

Try to at least be consistent with your clueless b.s.


Most kicks against resisting opponents require one to drop a hand for counterbalancing and developing power. Of course, systems or people that don't fight and compete regularly haven't figured this out.




With experience comes the ability to spot bullcr@p.

lol, you think very highly of yourself don't you.

dude, krabi krabong with sticks is NOT Krabi Krabong. But I guess your watered down crap is supposed to better than someone elses?

very funny. and say, clueless is what's in your mirror in the morning. :rolleyes:

and for your take on kicks? You don't know much about kicks do you. I'd say that it would appear by all merit of what you have said and presented that you know very little if anything about kicks, training kicks etc and merely jump on the bandwagon of those that fall closely into your narrow little view that you claim is experience with depth.

It's experience, but yours doesn't trump anyone elses.

anyway, keep chirping little birdy, at least you like your little simple song. lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

bag training? really?

can you guys put up even more boring videos? lol

pad training shows more...how about a pad training drill? lol

There is a link to his pad work after that clip is over.
You can learn more from bag and pad drills than seeing an actual fight.
During bag and pad drills you can focus on the guys supporting leg, see how his hips open, how the knee and shin follow-through, how the arms move and how his stances changes, how he recovers, how he moves around, how much or how little he steps, etc, etc.

[Knifefighter]

power issue has limits for certain kicks.

spinning kicks or tornado kicks

not done right hurt your spine---

so what is your best kicking method?

thai or other wise

Ones that work... certainly not tornado kicks.

A spinning back kick (ala Kung Le) hurts your spine? Give me a break. Do people really think like this?

LOL @ being worried about developing "too much" power.

[Knifefighter]

my favorite are golden scissor and scorpion kicks

they exist in shaolin and mantis

they are hidden kicks, you do not need immense power to do damage.

----

Um... what kind of damage? You mean the type that the theoretical, non-fighting forms teach people to believe would happen if they actually were to do them for real someday?

[David Jamieson]

Ones that work... certainly not tornado kicks.

A spinning back kick (ala Kung Le) hurts your spine? Give me a break. Do people really think like this?

LOL @ being worried about developing "too much" power.

read much? apparently not. lol

@sanjuro- not the point I was making. I understand what you mean though.

[David Jamieson]

Um... what kind of damage? You mean the type that the theoretical, non-fighting forms teach people to believe would happen if they actually were to do them for real someday?

just can't keep your fingers off of someone else keyboard eh?

You have serious issues dude. Seriously, every thread indicates something is wrong with your head. :rolleyes:

yeesh.

[Knifefighter]

and for your take on kicks? You don't know much about kicks do you. I'd say that it would appear by all merit of what you have said and presented that you know very little if anything about kicks, training kicks etc and merely jump on the bandwagon of those that fall closely into your narrow little view that you claim is experience with depth.


LOL...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3R4xtjl5b4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb6BbwKiPHQ

Notice how people who are fighting full contact almost always drop an arm down. That's because, when you fight full contact you HAVE to do that. Otherwise your kicks have no effect and you get your @ss kicked. People who fight full-on figure that out pretty quickly (and even faster when they have had instruction from knowledgeable instructors).

Of course, you wouldn't understand any of that.

[iunojupiter]

Can you explain the difference for having the hand swing down as opposed to having the hand stay up in guard? I have always trained with my hand staying up in guard to protect the head. I usually just practice on bags, motionless and swinging, and i've never noticed a difference in keeping my hands one way or the other. Balance and power seemed the same?
Your insight is appreciated.

[Knifefighter]

Can you explain the difference for having the hand swing down as opposed to having the hand stay up in guard? I have always trained with my hand staying up in guard to protect the head. I usually just practice on bags, motionless and swinging, and i've never noticed a difference in keeping my hands one way or the other. Balance and power seemed the same?
Your insight is appreciated.

Dropping the hand down acts as a counterbalance and is needed in developing power. Watch any full contact fight that involves kicking and you will see examples of that... everything from MMA, to Muay Thai, to K1, to Kyokushinkai does this because they have to.

Theoretically, it would be beneficial to guard the head while kicking (which is why the theoretical non-fighters think you should fight that way). However, as a practical matter, you can't guard the head and develop enough power to make your kicks effective against a resisting opponent who is striking back.

The drawbacks of having less effective kicks by keeping the hands up outweigh the drawbacks of dropping the hand to have better kicks. Fight a couple of full contact matches against competitive kickboxers and you will quickly discover this.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Two kinds of roundhouse kicks I was taught in Pai Lum:

Snapping Roundhouse: Chamber, Pivot the hip, throw the kick hitting with the bal of the foot or instep, rechamber, back in stance

Power Roundhouse: Slight chamber, turn the hips down while throwing a low kick or roll the hips up if throwing a head kick, hitting with the shin. I always have dropped my hand on the side the kick is being thrown, it adds to the torque and power generated with the kick. Also, there is still a slight rechamber with this kick but not as much as with snapping.

As for which is better, power RH will always be a more powerful kick and inflict more damage, but I have also developed a nice snapping roundhouse, especially from my front leg. That being said, any snap kick is not going to compare to a power kick.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K42GsTba1-o&feature=related

somebody will get kicks out of this clip.

it kicks or it rocks.

which one is better?

the ones with beer

----

whatever floats your boat?

:D

[SPJ]

I meant power kicks the german way

or swedish way.

power kicks the beer way.

:)

[iunojupiter]

Thanks for the response. I can see the theory behind the counterbalance, but the math involved doesn't sound right. Then again, the math in human physiology doesn't always add up like you think it would.
Like I said, kicking the bags, I've never seen a difference in the kick between hands up or down. I get the bag swinging and hit it on it's way back and can stop a 100lb heavy bag and get it to fold a bit. I guess I'd have to compete and go both theories until one proved the other.
To me, it seems like swinging the arm is just a mental thing. You think it gives you more oomph, therefore it does. But, like I said. I'd have to compete to test what you say about it, so. We'll find out when and if I get there.

Thanks

[sanjuro_ronin]

Swinging the bag and then hitting is does NOT demonstrate power, but the "solidness" of your stance.
When hitting the bag as it swings back there is more force produced on impact due to the movement of the bag coming back at you and your leg hitting the bag.
It is also used by fighters to help with footwork and timing, not to "measure" the power of the kick.
For ever action you do, your body naturally produces an opposite reaction that makes the action "better".
When we run and our right leg goes out which arms goes back?

[David Jamieson]

Swinging the bag and then hitting is does NOT demonstrate power, but the "solidness" of your stance.
When hitting the bag as it swings back there is more force produced on impact due to the movement of the bag coming back at you and your leg hitting the bag.
It is also used by fighters to help with footwork and timing, not to "measure" the power of the kick.
For ever action you do, your body naturally produces an opposite reaction that makes the action "better".
When we run and our right leg goes out which arms goes back?

true, the bag swinging is more to check your force feedback ability (standing) than it is to develop the kicking power although it's good to blast it in this type of exercise.

@knife. Did I say that dropping hand is bad? NO, I just said it's not the same with every kick and roundhouses are done a little differently depending on where you go. as muay thai drops the hand and most mma guys look to muay thai for their kicks, they do it that way too.

doesn't mean it's better, just means there is a convergence point in the training methods for guys that fight in those venues.

you put your hands down on a push kick? how about a stopper to the shin? drop em then?

and here's a secret for you, shaolin kung fu does not use a round house kick at all. If you see it in a performance, it's a recent addition or a wu shu thing, but if you go through the materials from the early 1900's you'd be hard pressed to find a round house kick. Crescent? sure, lotus? sure? round house? no.

[goju]

Most kicks against resisting opponents require one to drop a hand for counterbalancing and developing power. Of course, systems or people that don't fight and compete regularly haven't figured this out..


Actually mr experience it depends on the individual Not everyone needs to drop the hand for balance of power some do but some dont

http://www.musashi.nl/gif/andyhug010.jpg

http://www.irankickbox.com/images/news/andy_hug.jpg

[Knifefighter]

Actually mr experience it depends on the individual Not everyone needs to drop the hand for balance of power some do but some dont

http://www.musashi.nl/gif/andyhug010.jpg

http://www.irankickbox.com/images/news/andy_hug.jpg

Umm... in neither of those pics is the hand held up. It is down by the hip in both of the pics. That's where the arm drops... down by the hip.

Now I see why you fail to understand everything anyone posts.

[EarthDragon]

you never drop your guard /hand during a kick EVER!. we call this slot machining and it is a very bad habit.
People drop thier hand or (slot machine) to counter thier balance because they havent learn to balance properly, plain and simple.
pleae tell me who said this? knief said this stament? I cannto read his posts so please clue me in to who sadi yuo drop your guard to counter balance or create more power LOL

dragon

not an attack, it's a factual statement. I've seen plenty of kung fu schools that couldn't kick worth there weight.

honestly, have you been to many other schools? __________________

please stop making sweeping assumtptions on the limited amount of kung fu schools you have visited, this is completly false.

[goju]

Umm... in neither of those pics is the hand held up. It is down by the hip in both of the pics. That's where the arm drops... down by the hip.

Now I see why you fail to understand everything anyone posts.


typically its swung down past the hip and in the second pic he has his fist right below his chest not his waist.:p

[bawang]

and here's a secret for you, shaolin kung fu does not use a round house kick at all. If you see it in a performance, it's a recent addition or a wu shu thing, but if you go through the materials from the early 1900's you'd be hard pressed to find a round house kick. Crescent? sure, lotus? sure? round house? no.

noe ur rong. northern kung fu has iron broom training and post training. its all training shin kicks.
ur stoopid. u say if the form doesnt have someting then this style doesnt have this. ur dum guy.

[goju]

http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/filiokickhoost.jpg
and another

[David Jamieson]

Hug (rip) was a hands up guy. he kept that hand there to precipitate any counters that might occur.

these days, you see kids actually going for a thai kick and turning their freaking backs to their opponent when they miss!

giving their backs!

yeah, that's realistic. lol not. these are ufc dudes too albeit bottom rungers because you don't see that form top guys like gsp, silva, et al

anyway, I like the thai kicks. it's not so much the shape of them as it is how they relentlessly train from their early teens up.

I mean, it's a shyte place for many people there to live and being a top rank thai fighter can mean you don't gotta live in the dregs.

[goju]

these days, you see kids actually going for a thai kick and turning their freaking backs to their opponent when they miss!

giving their backs!
.

Ive heard thats an error in MT that supposedly youre supposed to do that during shadow boxing but not fighting. (shrugs)

[Knifefighter]

typically its swung down past the hip and in the second pic he has his fist right below his chest not his waist.:p

You must be trolling.... if not you are as clueless as everyone gives you credit for. You don't drop the opposite side hand. You drop the same side hand.

That's why the same side hand is down by the hip on both pics.

[Knifefighter]

Ive heard thats an error in MT that supposedly youre supposed to do that during shadow boxing but not fighting. (shrugs)

Please post the links to full contact fights of anyone doing that.

Never mind... you thought you were supposed to drop the opposite side hand.

[YouKnowWho]

Actually mr experience it depends on the individual Not everyone needs to drop the hand for balance of power some do but some dont

http://www.musashi.nl/gif/andyhug010.jpg

http://www.irankickbox.com/images/news/andy_hug.jpg

If you try to use your kick to set up your punch, you will keep your hand up when you kick (so your hand will be closer to your opponent's head). When you do that, your don't intend to commit 100% on your kick (it's just a set up anyway). If you use other move to set up your kick as a "finish move", you may want to drop your arm down so you can give a 100% body spinning. Both arguments are correct. It depends on your "intention".

- Raise guard invite kicks.
- drop guard invite punches.

It all depends on your "strategy".

[David Jamieson]

You must be trolling.... if not you are as clueless as everyone gives you credit for. You don't drop the opposite side hand. You drop the same side hand.

That's why the same side hand is down by the hip on both pics.

you are saying it's for counter balance and that's not why it's done at all.

so, what do you know. lol.

It's for clear path for the kick when guys do that and to add a slight twist to give a little extra power, or so it's perceived. The lean is what counterbalances the kick lift though. and arm is not heavy enough physics wise to provide any counter balance.

[Knifefighter]

you never drop your guard /hand during a kick EVER!. we call this slot machining and it is a very bad habit.
People drop thier hand or (slot machine) to counter thier balance because they havent learn to balance properly, plain and simple.
pleae tell me who said this? knief said this stament? I cannto read his posts so please clue me in to who sadi yuo drop your guard to counter balance or create more power LOL

dragon
__________________

please stop making sweeping assumtptions on the limited amount of kung fu schools you have visited, this is completly false.

LOL @ thinking he knows more about how to kick that the way pro fighters kick.

Once again, more cluelessness from Haley.

[goju]

You must be trolling.... if not you are as clueless as everyone gives you credit for. You don't drop the opposite side hand. You drop the same side hand.

That's why the same side hand is down by the hip on both pics.

Lol youre a personal trainer and you dont know the differenc between the chest and hip?:p

And no Where in here did i say you drop the opposite hand, Slow down and Actually read the posts before you start puffing your chest.

In hugs pics one or both is typically at the chest or one is rigth above his thigh not swung way below his waist as common.

Since hug was an amazing kicker it shows both ways work

[goju]

Please post the links to full contact fights of anyone doing that.

Never mind... you thought you were supposed to drop the opposite side hand.


Doing what? spinning after kicking?

[Knifefighter]

you are saying it's for counter balance and that's not why it's done at all.

so, what do you know. lol.

It's for clear path for the kick when guys do that and to add a slight twist to give a little extra power, or so it's perceived. The lean is what counterbalances the kick lift though. and arm is not heavy enough physics wise to provide any counter balance.

Go back and read my original post I said both for counterbalance (and yes there is enough mass because the body also counter-rotates) and for power.

Same principle for soccer and football kicks also.

You guys really are clueless.

[Knifefighter]

Lol youre a personal trainer and you dont know the differenc between the chest and hip?:p

And no Where in here did i say you drop the opposite hand, Slow down and Actually read the posts before you start puffing your chest.

In hugs pics one or both is typically at the chest or one is rigth above his thigh not swung way below his waist as common.

Since hug was an amazing kicker it shows both ways work

Hip is where he had the same side hand. Same as all his kicks.

You must either be trolling, blind, or stupid... probably all three.

[goju]

http://www.thai-boxing.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/MUAY-THAI-ATTACK-DEFENCE-KICK.jpg

http://www.martialartsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/kickboxing.gif

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00738/diego1_682x400_738562a.jpg



the way diego is kicking is standard for most people the other photos show a different method

[Knifefighter]

In hugs pics one or both is typically at the chest or one is rigth above his thigh not swung way below his waist as common.

Bringing your hand to the hip is dropping the hand, which is what the clueless kung fu guys like RD and moonymantis are saying is not supposed to happen.

[goju]

Bringing your hand to the hip is dropping the hand, which is what the clueless kung fu guys like RD and moonymantis are saying is not supposed to happen.


Its possible to keep them both at your jaw but it wont be very effective and comfortable

but one can vary how his hands are dropped depending on his or her balance

neither way is incorrect whether you want your hands to stay above the waist or below

[Knifefighter]

http://www.thai-boxing.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/MUAY-THAI-ATTACK-DEFENCE-KICK.jpg

http://www.martialartsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/kickboxing.gif

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00738/diego1_682x400_738562a.jpg



the way diego is kicking is standard for most people the othee photos show a different method

The top photo is a demo in a frozen position. Continue on with the demo and you would see both guys hands drop.

The second photo, the guy kicking cannot drop his hand because his opponent has it trapped above his arm.

[YouKnowWho]

shaolin kung fu does not use a round house kick at all. If you see it in a performance, it's a recent addition or a wu shu thing, but if you go through the materials from the early 1900's you'd be hard pressed to find a round house kick. Crescent? sure, lotus? sure? round house? no.
It will be stupid to throw a round house kick at your opponent's head when your opponet is holding a 6 feet long sharp and heavy Miao Dao. All the round house kick, hook kick, spin hook kick are modern product. After the cold weapon era was over, cold weapon combat would no longer be the main stream. The open hand combat started to envolve.

[EarthDragon]

LMAO... is it knife fighter that said you drop your guard when you kick adn that supposed to be done?
and peopel are taking him seriously?

[Knifefighter]

Its possible to keep them both at your jaw but it wont be very effective and comfortable

but one can vary how his hands are dropped depending on his or her balance

neither way is incorrect whether you want your hands to stay above the waist or below

Which was exactly the original point that the clueless kung fu guys couldn't seem to grasp.

[goju]

The top photo is a demo in a frozen position. Continue on with the demo and you would see both guys hands drop.

The second photo, the guy kicking cannot drop his hand because his opponent has it trapped above his arm.

The hands is supposed to drop before the kick lands if its still up its staing there and i already posted more than once live shot of the same type of kick

http://members.home.nl/k.chin/Igor%20vs%20CroCop.gif
see the hand is back before the kick hits

[goju]

Which was exactly the original point that the clueless kung fu guys couldn't seem to grasp.

Give them the benefit of the doubt rather than jump to conclusions based on your dislike of them

[Knifefighter]

Give them the benefit of the doubt rather than jump to conclusions based on your dislike of them

Umm... did you read their posts about not dropping the hands.

Oh, that's right, you are just trolling again.

[David Jamieson]

It will be stupid to throw a round house kick at your opponent's head when your opponet is holding a 6 feet long sharp and heavy Miao Dao. All the round house kick, hook kick, spin hook kick are modern product. After the cold weapon era was over, cold weapon combat would no longer be the main stream. The open hand combat started to envolve.

lol, true enough.

i mean old style military training (not medical or ch'an) was pretty much all about dealing with weapons in all their categories.

all the earliest treatises regarding kung fu were about use of weapons.

pugilism manuals are pretty new.

[SoCo KungFu]

You aren't "dropping" your hand. You're pulling it across your body to engage your core muscles thereby creating a solid frame for your anterior thigh muscles to pull against and thus deliver more power into the kick. It doesn't matter where the hand is (last time I checked neither my elbow nor wrist was attached to my trunk. Although I'm sure there will be someone on here that might try to argue as such...). Its the pulling of the lats, obliques, abs and all the little accessory muscles that I don't care to go into listing that matters...

If your elbow is bent the hand may be at the hip or chest or wherever. If its straight it can be wherever. That's not whats important.

And honestly if you know how to set up your range and all that then you shouldn't need to be blocking your face when you throw a round kick. Not high ones anyways.

[goju]

Umm... did you read their posts about not dropping the hands.

Oh, that's right, you are just trolling again.

I may be misstaken but i didnt see mooying mantis even post in this thread

if he said that somewhere else i missed it, Sorry i cant be arsed to follow all the feuds on this board

[Knifefighter]

You aren't "dropping" your hand. You're pulling it across your body to engage your core muscles thereby creating a solid frame for your anterior thigh muscles to pull against and thus deliver more power into the kick. It doesn't matter where the hand is (last time I checked neither my elbow nor wrist was attached to my trunk. Although I'm sure there will be someone on here that might try to argue as such...). Its the pulling of the lats, obliques, abs and all the little accessory muscles that I don't care to go into listing that matters...

There ya go.

[David Jamieson]

There ya go.

this is not what you were saying.

it's got good context to it, but it's definitely not the point you were making about dropping hands.

anyway, by all the stuff you've offered as your halcyion + salad fighting days you clearly show that you're not much of a kicker anyway.

that's ok, i don't put a lot into kicking either. lol

[SoCo KungFu]

Not unless you are bringing someone's head in the opposite direction. Dropping your guard is a good way to get knocked out. This has been shown in UFC fights. If you look at traditional muay thai and mantis the hand goes in the opposite direction and down following a grab to the arm or head. You can and should train to have balance with your hands up durring any kick. You do not add force by tossing your shoulders in the opposite direction, you merely retain balance. Its a common habit begginers have which they should be broken of or else they will get hit in the head.

You really have no idea what you are saying...

I'll make this simple for you...

IT'S NOT ABOUT BALANCE!!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Wow...I can't believe this discussion is actually happening...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfrU83ZTNwA

[Knifefighter]

Not unless you are bringing someone's head in the opposite direction. Dropping your guard is a good way to get knocked out. This has been shown in UFC fights. If you look at traditional muay thai and mantis the hand goes in the opposite direction and down following a grab to the arm or head. You can and should train to have balance with your hands up durring any kick. You do not add force by tossing your shoulders in the opposite direction, you merely retain balance. Its a common habit begginers have which they should be broken of or else they will get hit in the head.


Maybe we are getting confused about what "dropping the arm" entail. I posted clips about what I am talking about.

How about you guys posting the clips of what you are talking about. Show the clips of how you think the hands are supposed to be held.

Deal?

[Lucas]

lol, believe it.

[goju]

lol now its gonna be arguin over whether its for balance or not:eek:

[Knifefighter]

Wow...I can't believe this discussion is actually happening...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfrU83ZTNwA

Thank you.

Now we can wait for the "don't drop your arms" crowd to show the full contact clips of what they are talking about.

[SoCo KungFu]

lol now its gonna be arguin over whether its for balance or not:eek:

Well it kinda does help balance. But it does so because it stabilizes your frame. Which is also why you can generate more power.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfrU83ZTNwA

See look at his gut while he kicks. Notice all those muscles there contracting. Its not just "dropping" your arm. Ironically, this is leading with your dantien, using your core, unification of body motion, all those other little cliches that people try to use to describe taiji or TCMA in general. And people are arguing against it....ugh....

And another thing. Notice how when he is at proper range for the kick, he's out of his opponents range for a counter punch?

[Knifefighter]

Well it kinda does help balance. But it does so because it stabilizes your frame. Which is also why you can generate more power.



See look at his gut while he kicks. Notice all those muscles there contracting. Its not just "dropping" your arm. Ironically, this is leading with your dantien, using your core, unification of body motion, all those other little cliches that people try to use to describe taiji or TCMA in general. And people are arguing against it....ugh....

Of course it is counterbalance. Without the counterbalance you would fall on your @ss.

Still waiting for the clips from the "hands up" guys of how it is supposed to be done.

[goju]

Well it kinda does help balance. But it does so because it stabilizes your frame. Which is also why you can generate more power.


Yeah some people use it for different things

people are assuming everyones body has the same atributes or limitations as they do and were taught as they were so there is only one right way which convienently happens to be there way:eek:

Theres more than one way to properly throw it while still retaining power and balance it comes down to personal preference though

[SoCo KungFu]

Yeah some people use it for different things

people are assuming everyones body has the same atributes or limitations as they do and were taught as they were so there is only one right way which convienently happens to be there way:eek:

Theres more than one way to properly throw it while still retaining power and balance it comes down to personal preference though

Some people can get away with certain things depending on body structure, but at the end of the day we all have the same muscles and there is no more powerful way to do it than like this.

[Lokhopkuen]

LMAO... is it knife fighter that said you drop your guard when you kick adn that supposed to be done?
and peopel are taking him seriously?

He is the only one who takes him seriously:rolleyes:

[Knifefighter]

Some people can get away with certain things depending on body structure, but at the end of the day we all have the same muscles and there is no more powerful way to do it than like this.

Can you kick with your hands up? Of course you can. You won't develop much power and that is fine if you don't care about power and your goal is something else. Watch Royce's first UFC's for perfect examples of this.

What's funny is keeping the hands up is much more suited for someone who wants to get inside, clinch, grapple and go to the ground...which is pretty much the opposite of what the most of the clueless kung fu guys say they want to do.

[Knifefighter]

He is the only one who takes him seriously:rolleyes:

Still waiting for those "keep the hands up while kicking" clips.

[Lokhopkuen]

Still waiting for those "keep the hands up while kicking" clips.

You've mistaken me for someone else:rolleyes:
http://www.mmaplayground.com/forums/i/pi/233625_5.jpg

[goju]

Still waiting for those "keep the hands up while kicking" clips.

Go take it up with Earthdragon in a pm?

[Lokhopkuen]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q69/lokhopkuen/monkey.jpg

[SoCo KungFu]

Can you kick with your hands up? Of course you can. You won't develop much power and that is fine if you don't care about power and your goal is something else. Watch Royce's first UFC's for perfect examples of this.

What's funny is keeping the hands up is much more suited for someone who wants to get inside, clinch, grapple and go to the ground...which is pretty much the opposite of what the most of the clueless kung fu guys say they want to do.

LOL no thank you. Royce's kicks are about painful to watch. And I've cracked my ankles on enough elbows to know that lackadaisical kicking at really bad angles and poor technique (the kind you get by not turning your hip over and pulling the arm and stuff) is pretty bad on just about any level. Idk maybe some of you have reinforced tarsals but I kinda find it hard to shoot on a broke ankle. But that's just me :D

Kinda makes you wonder why anyone would want to use a front snap kick that's done 900 times per form....

[Knifefighter]

LOL no thank you. Royce's kicks are about painful to watch. And I've cracked my ankles on enough elbows to know that lackadaisical kicking at really bad angles and poor technique (the kind you get by not turning your hip over and pulling the arm and stuff) is pretty bad on just about any level. Idk maybe some of you have reinforced tarsals but I kinda find it hard to shoot on a broke ankle. But that's just me :D

Kinda makes you wonder why anyone would want to use a front snap kick that's done 900 times per form....

Royce's early kicks worked because they were push kicks to the front of the knee. They were only used to enter into grappling range.

What is funny is that they were a realistic application of the "deadly knee strike" crowd's technique.

[taai gihk yahn]

anyone who doesn't want me to start explaining the biomechanics of why you need to counter-rotate in the trunk (a.k.a. - "dropping the hand" on the same side as th kicking leg) to maximize dynamic extremity power delivery off of a relatively stable core had better clear-out now...

you have been warned...

[goju]

I dont think anyone with the exception of Ed believed you should keep the hands up at your chin

This has all got blown out of proportion from people misunderstanding and jumping the gun:D

[Knifefighter]

anyone who doesn't want me to start explaining the biomechanics of why you need to counter-rotate in the trunk (a.k.a. - "dropping the hand" on the same side as th kicking leg) to maximize dynamic extremity power delivery off of a relatively stable core had better clear-out now...

you have been warned...

Please do. You always give excellent biomechanical analysis.

You can explain it to RD, since he pretends not to read my posts and you explain much better than I do, anyway.

Maybe you can also explain the counterbalancing for the people who don't understand that you would fall down without it.

[EarthDragon]

I must be missing something as i have knife on ignore, but from what i read some people are claiming that you generate MORE power when you drop your arm during a kick? adn its ok to drop your guard for this extra power?

[Knifefighter]

I must be missing something as i have knife on ignore, but from what i read some people are claiming that you generate MORE power when you drop your arm during a kick? adn its ok to drop your guard for this extra power?

And the backpedaling begins now that an authority on biomechanics is going to give an explanation of why you need to drop the arm.

Watch him now say it's OK to drop the same side arm and come up with some other milarky that it's OK to do it once you kick or are in a certain range.

[goju]

ED youre not honestly suggesting people should kick like the lady in the front of this pic right?:eek:

http://www.cardiokickboxing.org/images/cardiokickboxingcertification.jpg

[Knifefighter]

ED youre not honestly suggesting people should kick like the lady in the front of this pic right?:eek:

http://www.cardiokickboxing.org/images/cardiokickboxingcertification.jpg

LOL... don't expect him to answer that until after Chris has posted his analysis and he has had a chance to backpedal.

[mooyingmantis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=witJISymkWo


edit: waiting for CMA people to tell me something wrong with these kicks. :D

Since you are waiting, I wouldn't want to disappoint you. He drops his guard nearly everytime he kicks. Always drops the rear guard, usually drops the front guard. There you go!

Oops, I didn't read all the posts before I commented, only the first post. Now that I went back and read some I am glad to see that other TCMA brothers agree with my insight.

However, he does look like he has a h e l l of a kick. Very nice!

BTW, thanks for adding a quote of mine to your signature! I stand by my comment. :)

[EarthDragon]

very well said andy.... sometimes its not worth the typing when you have to explian basic elemetary things like not dropping the gurd when you kick. I used to teach this to my kids class. I cant understand that adults would have this same bad habit.

mooying he is also praticing his bag work no need to protect when thiers no one hitting back

[Violent Designs]

Since you are waiting, I wouldn't want to disappoint you. He drops his guard nearly everytime he kicks. Always drops the rear guard, usually drops the front guard. There you go!

However, he does look like he has a h e l l of a kick. Very nice!

BTW, thanks for adding a quote of mine to your signature! I stand by my comment. :)

which proves you've never ever fought a good hard leg kicker or your students have not either.

[Knifefighter]

Since you are waiting, I wouldn't want to disappoint you. He drops his guard nearly everytime he kicks. Always drops the rear guard, usually drops the front guard. There you go!

Oops, I didn't read all the posts before I commented, only the first post. Now that I went back and read some I am glad to see that other TCMA brothers agree with my insight.

However, he does look like he has a h e l l of a kick. Very nice!

BTW, thanks for adding a quote of mine to your signature! I stand by my comment. :)

There ya have it folks.

Another clueless kung fu "teacher" with zero to show, but explaining how he understands it better than an elite fighter does.

[EarthDragon]

which proves you've never ever fought a good hard leg kicker or your students have not either

LOl where do you come up with your conclusions?


this board is getting worse and worse

[Knifefighter]

very well said andy.... sometimes its not worth the typing when you have to explian basic elemetary things like not dropping the gurd when you kick. I used to teach this to my kids class. I cant understand that adults would have this same bad habit.

mooying he is also praticing his bag work no need to protect when thiers no one hitting back

And there ya go again folks. More clueless drivel from another incompetent kung fu "sifu".

He can do that because there is no one hitting him back!!!???!!!

That is so wrong on so many levels.

[Knifefighter]

Thanks guys... for showing everyone how right we were about you.

Remember folks, these are your teachers. This is where you learn cr@p like that.

[Violent Designs]

LOl where do you come up with your conclusions?


this board is getting worse and worse

not even talking to you ED.

i got no beef with you...

I am referring to Mooying Manti's "theory" that a lot of deep stance training can prevent injury from a good leg kicker killing your thighs or calves with those leg kicks.

which is completely NOT TRUE, doing stance training is not going to prevent damage from leg kicks.....

[mooyingmantis]

very well said andy.... sometimes its not worth the typing when you have to explian basic elemetary things like not dropping the gurd when you kick. I used to teach this to my kids class. I cant understand that adults would have this same bad habit.

mooying he is also praticing his bag work no need to protect when thiers no one hitting back

Bad habits in practice carry over into fighting. Why practice sloppy technique?

[mooyingmantis]

which proves you've never ever fought a good hard leg kicker or your students have not either.

You are a joke! You have no idea who I am or what I or my students have done. How long have you been training in MA?

Amazing how bold you anonymous peeps are! My name and location is in my signature for anyone interested in touching hands. I have nothing to hide. If I am just a poser, bring a video-camera and come show everyone.

[goju]

LOL oh mother of god:rolleyes:

[Knifefighter]

Bad habits in practice carry over into fighting. Why practice sloppy technique?

You mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuftGyvyyLU&feature=fvw

These bad habits where Yodsanklai won the title?

Please post a link to the guy with "good" habits. If Yodsanklai, I'd love to see the guy with good habits.

[Knifefighter]

You are a joke! You have no idea who I am or what I or my students have done. How long have you been training in MA?

Amazing how bold you anonymous peeps are! My name and location is in my signature for anyone interested in touching hands. I have nothing to hide.

Ummm... methinks you'd end up helpless on your ass like the other fat kung sifu did against the bjj blue belt.

But please carry on making a fool of yourself by analyzing what elite fighters are doing wrong.

[goju]

the only thing i dont like about the kick is how high he goes on the ball of his foot on his supporting leg but saying that kick is sloppy or poor is just shockingly ignorant:confused:

[Violent Designs]

You are a joke! You have no idea who I am or what I or my students have done. How long have you been training in MA?

Amazing how bold you anonymous peeps are! My name and location is in my signature for anyone interested in touching hands. I have nothing to hide. If I am just a poser, bring a video-camera and come show everyone.

i like how my comment made you get so defensive.

all I said was your previous comment sounded like proof you have never fought a HARD leg kicker, otherwise you would not be saying "stance training all day improves ability to absorb leg kicks"

which it does not man.

I have seen some Hung Gar cats who trained deep stances everyday get their legs eaten up. Actually a previous sihing of my when I did Hung Kuen also trained in Muay Thai with me.

I've been training for 8 years now, I did CLF for all these years and the last three focusing on Muay Thai. Did a few months of MMA, didn't like it.

I don't have the time or will to go to your school to "prove a point." Just to let you know. Nor do I claim to be a total badass. I'm not a professional fighter, I'm not super hardcore. I fight in amateur smoker matches here in SoCal once in a while and that's it although I'd love to go pro one day.

I'm not going to to your school unless I got some business over there for training or competitions or something. But if it happens, sure, I'll drop by. I'm a nice dude, don't get so defensive. Can't disagree on something without someone flipping out, LOL.

I've seen ALOT of people get dropped by leg kicks.

And these are guys who are used to getting kicked in the legs, because they spar hard all the time.

Oh and if you're in SoCal send me a message.

I train at MTA USA and The Yard Muay Thai.

Because I got nothing to hide either.

Happy hunting.

[Dragonzbane76]

power generation, counter balance, distance, timing. It's not hard concepts. There is a time and place for pulling your guard up, at these levels of fighters it's second nature. The culmination of training and experience.

dropping the hands for balance and power is not "bad habit"

[EarthDragon]

violent

not even talking to you ED.
i got no beef with you...
I am referring to Mooying Manti's "theory" that a lot of deep stance training can prevent injury from a good leg kicker killing your thighs or calves with those leg kicks.
which is completely NOT TRUE, doing stance training is not going to prevent damage from leg kicks.....

fair enough violent, I would just say that, you do not have to say such things you dont know to explian your point is all.

dragon
dropping the hands for balance and power is not "bad habit"

yes it is and I correct many people for doing this, its a flase sence of balance and power, counter swinging as someone said is a bad habit plain and simple. keep your gaird up unless you want punched in the face when your kick didnt land.

Mooying
true why pratice what you dont do in comat, I totally agree...........but in his defense i do bag work until I can barely life my leg to kick and I get lazy and use my swining arm to get my body in motion. However I would never do this in a fight because I would be to worried about my kick betting parried, blocked, caught or missing my target, which would result in getting countered and hit, so you do not use your defense for extra balance or power.

If you are using your arm to generate power you are wrong. The power in a kick comes form kinetic energy from the toe to the ankle to the knee then circles through the waist and extends and snaps outward..

This is no different then a punch.
some say the power in a punch comes from the shoulder
more experienced people will say from the waist
your most expereinced will say from the toe

[taai gihk yahn]

Please do. You always give excellent biomechanical analysis.

You can explain it to RD, since he pretends not to read my posts and you explain much better than I do, anyway.

Maybe you can also explain the counterbalancing for the people who don't understand that you would fall down without it.

ok, lol, I was kinda kidding, which is why I was 'warning" people seeing as how I have a rep of writing long, drawn-out "technobabble" posts; I mean, I could do it, but it may not happen today - I'm sorta backlogged on some reports, and actually explaining that particular movement would take a while, as it's pretty complex;

the SHORT answer is that if you look at complex dynamic movement in general, it inherently involves oppositional motion: walking, throwing a ball, etc.; this has to do with how our nervous system is programmed vis a vis the postural system (reciprocal pattern generators, a la Sherrington, if I recall correctly), as well as on a basic biomechanical level in terms of optimal torque generation, and angular momentum; the point is that oppositional motion is what allows us to dynamically maintain our center of gravity within our base of support with the greatest amount of efficiency; if you don't utilize this principle, you end up fighting yourself, so to speak - imagine trying to throw a ball whie stepping forward with the same side foot - this is the equivalent of throwing a round house kick without counterrotating through the upper trunk and moving the shoulder into extensio; on a more isolated level, you are engaging latissimus, which, most people may not realize is what essentially attaches your shoulder girdle to your pelvis / sacrum; if you don't counterbalance this way, you are not connecting the core to the extremities with this motion, and in a way biasing the entire postural system into a flexion moment, which you wil then have to counteracct somewhere else, such as the hip or knee of the weightbearing lower extremity (which over time ain't such a great idea)
ok, anyway, that's enuf for now...

[EarthDragon]

PS no matter how much your train your stances and legs, a few landed kicks in the side of the thigh.... serperation of the quats and hams will render you limping.

PSS I never said counter balancing is not as powerful, I said its a bad habit incase your kick does not land, you are exposed to a counter attack. So when fighting you should worry more about being hit then that little bit of more power, that is if you kick in a fight ever which most of us never will unless its low front kick, my feet wil never leave the gorund

[Dragonzbane76]

yes it is and I correct many people for doing this, its a flase sence of balance and power, counter swinging as someone said is a bad habit plain and simple. keep your gaird up unless you want punched in the face when your kick didnt land.

not saying there isn't a time and place for guard. the ebb and flow of the fight dictates as much. We are discussing upper tier of fighters the climax of fight evolution. Not talking about some scrub with bare min. fight experience, who will get timed and take one in the face for some crappy kick he's throwing.

Time and place again. please explain to everyone how thousands of thai fighters/TKD, etc. can be wrong.

[Violent Designs]

PS no matter how much your train your stances and legs, a few landed kicks in the side of the thigh.... serperation of the quats and hams will render you limping.

This

You can even get a guy to kick you in the thigh, or take a metal or wooden stick and "condition" it while sitting in a low horse stance.

It might help somewhat but...

When the real thing happens, it's *STILL* going to hurt like a mother, that is *IF* you let him kick you there.

Look, why even let the guy kick you in the leg/thigh/knees/calves?

Why not check them with your heel or with your shin.

There's nothing "cool" about proving how many leg kicks you can eat while sitting in a low sei ping ma chanting away LOL.

-EarthDragon

I know what you mean my post toward mooying came off pretty harsh initially but you know, when people make really bold statements like that sometimes it's annoying to see and I go right ahead and make a bold statement back at them. I don't get in much arguments here at all but it's usually something I find to be untrue based on all of my experience (which is not much but I do train with professional fighters)

[Knifefighter]

yes it is and I correct many people for doing this, its a flase sence of balance and power, counter swinging as someone said is a bad habit plain and simple. keep your gaird up unless you want punched in the face when your kick didnt land.

LOL... this coming from the guy who has said his students have competed only once in a point/forms competition and whose only other claim to full contact fighting was being the training partner to a guy who never threw any kicks.

But, of course, he knows better than world-class professional fighters.

Can you say "deluded?"

Do students actually pay this guy? If they do they should ask for a refund.

[taai gihk yahn]

If you are using your arm to generate power you are wrong. The power in a kick comes form kinetic energy from the toe to the ankle to the knee then circles through the waist and extends and snaps outward.
mmm, not quite; power in a RH kick comes from combination of obliques, psoas and quads - it's basically trunk rotation followed by hip flexion and knee extesion; and as I mentioned above, latissimus plays an important roll as a pelvic to shoulder girdle stabilizer - here's a pic showing how it connects the arm / shoulder girdle to the pelvis - so when you extend / internally rotate the same side arm, you are engaging lats in that regard, I believe
http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/LIF/LIF125/posterior-view-latissimus_~3D508004.jpg

[EarthDragon]

fair enough Violent, like I said good old discussions are fine, even agreeing to disagree is OK too............ if we can everyone to get away from the personal attacks, and sweeping asumtions and putting others down to prove our point of view or give an opinion this board would be a better place for all...:o

taai, I am not disagreeing with what muslces are used, the lats as well as many other muscles are fired when any kind of motion is needed. My point is you can perform the kick without dropping or moving the arms at all, and some have taken this swining the aorm downward to the point where they use it as a crutch to maintain balance and feel it generates more power.
agian if I kick as hard as a can my arm does drop....... but i would not do this in a fight. I fought ISKA and you get rocked when you have this bad habit...i.e wait for the kick opponets drops his gaurd and wham! punched in the face

[taai gihk yahn]

PS no matter how much your train your stances and legs, a few landed kicks in the side of the thigh.... serperation of the quats and hams will render you limping.
side of the thigh is actualy iliotibial band - which in most people is tight and chronicaly inflammed - which is why it is a great structure to hit, it's prone to being painful anyway...


PSS I never said counter balancing is not as powerful, I said its a bad habit incase your kick does not land, you are exposed to a counter attack. So when fighting you should worry more about being hit then that little bit of more power, that is if you kick in a fight ever which most of us never will unless its low front kick, my feet wil never leave the gorund
um, isn't that why, when you "drop" the same side hand, you bring the opposite side hand up (which is where it wants to go anyway) to protect yourself?

[SoCo KungFu]

So when fighting you should worry more about being hit then that little bit of more power, that is if you kick in a fight ever which most of us never will unless its low front kick, my feet wil never leave the gorund

When you start to worry about getting hit all the time, is when you have guys ducking around their own punches and kicks leaving their head exposed. You will get hit its inevitable. When you start to duck or look out over your own strikes for fear of being creamed, you will get ktfo...

[EarthDragon]

wait we are talking about kicking with the right leg and swining the right arm back and down inm the opposite direction to counter correct?
even though your left hand come up you only have 1 hand to defned your opponets 2 hands, we have several counters for such a sloppy habit.

soco
When you start to worry about getting hit all the time, is when you have guys ducking around their own punches and kicks leaving their head exposed. You will get hit its inevitable. When you start to duck or look out over your own strikes for fear of being creamed, you will get ktfo...
you should always consider defense and aviod getting hit. I fought full contact for many years in the ISKA and you always know where your guard is extra power or not. If not your opoponet will remind you you dropped your guard

[Knifefighter]

wait we are talking about kicking with the right leg and swining the right arm back and down inm the opposite direction to counter correct?
even though your left hand come up you only have 1 hand to defned your opponets 2 hands, we have several counters for such a sloppy habit.

Bwahahaaaaaa!!! Talk about theoretical, pretend, fantasy, non-fighters.

[Hardwork108]

I don't understand why it is so complicated to understand. You keep your hands up to protect yourself when kicking. That is the way I sparred in WC and it was an important principle that sifu drilled into me, sometimes through painful reminders, and all of this when it was understood that you only use kicks when you are sure you are going to connect, not just to "find range", "keep opponent away", "flashiness", etc.

If one wants increase their power, then he should train more from a hands up position, while working on relaxation, correct breathing and better body unity. It is that simple.

It is a mystery why the MMA-ists here, that is the so called "real" fighters, have so much problem in understanding the simple concept of protecting one's head, where the brain resides, while kicking......Unless that is they don't have any brains worth protecting........:D

[omarthefish]

Theoretically, it would be beneficial to guard the head while kicking (which is why the theoretical non-fighters think you should fight that way). However, as a practical matter, you can't guard the head and develop enough power to make your kicks effective against a resisting opponent who is striking back. . .
Emphasis mine.

Sure you can. You are supposed to protect your head with your rear hand.

Didn't you learn anything in whatever Muay Thai classes you had?

Optimally, you should do some drills where you and a partner take turns throwing roundhouses at each other where the defender is supposed to angle off and punch you in the face on each kick. As the kicker, you will learn quickly that way where to place your rear hand to block the counterpunch.

That way you get the best of both worlds. You get the kinesiological advantage of throwing the lead hand back as a counterbalance and you get your head protected at the same time. ;)

[omarthefish]

To me, it seems like swinging the arm is just a mental thing. You think it gives you more oomph, therefore it does. But, like I said. I'd have to compete to test what you say about it, so. We'll find out when and if I get there.


You don't have to compete just to test the kinesiology.

There is a reason why your hands swing in opposition to your legs when you walk. There are all kinds of reasons why it is both better balances and more powerful to kick with the hands moving in opposition to the legs rather than in the same direction. Just try it both ways on a bag and it's obvious. The less obvious part is how to protect your head when you do it.

[Knifefighter]

Emphasis mine.

Sure you can. You are supposed to protect your head with your rear hand.

Didn't you learn anything in whatever Muay Thai classes you had?



Of course you are going to have one hand up. What else would happen when you drop one arm down?

Maybe I should have added the disadvantage of not having both hands up for the slower crowd.

[omarthefish]

Just responding to what you posted.

I missed a couple pages in the middle of the thread but in the meantime grabbed a little pic to show what I was talking about before. Ironcally, the only pic I could find of anyone doing it right (by my standard) other than this Muay Thai dude was Thomas Kurtz, the stretching guy.

I've added a little arrow to show where the defender should be counterpunching:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/__HKVaUYUxJg/TLznjB4RSiI/AAAAAAAAC-M/3s_QjMyHBW8/ROUND-HOUSEKICK.jpg

So like, Earthdragon, plenty of other counters but as far as punching is concerned, there's really only one target that is going to open up during a roundhouse and in this pick, the dude has is covered. Really hard to find a pic of anyone else doing a roiundhouse kick with his hand covering that target. Most of the other folks have their hands up but just generally covering themselves with no real awareness of where they are open. Like covering their chest or something. Most pics show the hand on the kicking side back a little bit but still up front "for defense".

Defense of what?

[Knifefighter]

Just responding to what you posted.

I missed a couple pages in the middle of the thread but in the meantime grabbed a little pic to show what I was talking about before. Ironcally, the only pic I could find of anyone doing it right (by my standard) other than this Muay Thai dude was Thomas Kurtz, the stretching guy.

I've added a little arrow to show where the defender should be counterpunching:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/__HKVaUYUxJg/TLznjB4RSiI/AAAAAAAAC-M/3s_QjMyHBW8/ROUND-HOUSEKICK.jpg

So like, Earthdragon, plenty of other counters but as far as punching is concerned, there's really only one target that is going to open up during a roundhouse and in this pick, the dude has is covered. Really hard to find a pic of anyone else doing a roiundhouse kick with his hand covering that target. Most of the other folks have their hands up but just generally covering themselves with no real awareness of where they are open. Like covering their chest or something. Most pics show the hand on the kicking side back a little bit but still up front "for defense".

Defense of what?

BTW, notice how in real-full contact fights how hard it is to keep the other hand up at the face. It naturally drops down to assist with power development.

Another difference between the real world and what the theoretical non-fighters think should happen.

[SoCo KungFu]

Just responding to what you posted.

I missed a couple pages in the middle of the thread but in the meantime grabbed a little pic to show what I was talking about before. Ironcally, the only pic I could find of anyone doing it right (by my standard) other than this Muay Thai dude was Thomas Kurtz, the stretching guy.

I've added a little arrow to show where the defender should be counterpunching:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/__HKVaUYUxJg/TLznjB4RSiI/AAAAAAAAC-M/3s_QjMyHBW8/ROUND-HOUSEKICK.jpg

So like, Earthdragon, plenty of other counters but as far as punching is concerned, there's really only one target that is going to open up during a roundhouse and in this pick, the dude has is covered. Really hard to find a pic of anyone else doing a roiundhouse kick with his hand covering that target. Most of the other folks have their hands up but just generally covering themselves with no real awareness of where they are open. Like covering their chest or something. Most pics show the hand on the kicking side back a little bit but still up front "for defense".

Defense of what?

And as the pic shows there is nothing precluding you from maintaining basic structure. His chin is still tucked. Granted not into his shoulder. But the button is down so he won't take a jarring shot should he get hit. This all coupled with knowing your range (even though the receiver is longer, he still has to step in to land a punch), timing and setup as opposed to errant kicking, throw in a little bit of angles and you have a powerful and useful tool. All of which can be worked out with some sparring and competition. Funny how we get back to that huh?

[omarthefish]

Heck, for the most part they can't even keep that rear hand up to protect their face.

And for the most part, it doesn't matter because almost nobody is on the hair trigger to angle off line and punch to the face against a roundhouse. People tend to be staggering around, maybe in the middle of something else. Maybe the round kick was thrown as a counter to someone who drops their rear hand on a punch.

Lots of variables. Fighting is messy.

[Violent Designs]

Also maybe your kick is so ****ing strong that you force them to block with both arms and buckle them still. :D

[EarthDragon]

Originally Posted by Knifefighter
Theoretically, it would be beneficial to guard the head while kicking (which is why the theoretical non-fighters think you should fight that way). However, as a practical matter, you can't guard the head and develop enough power to make your kicks effective against a resisting opponent who is striking back. . .

I cant belevie I am even respopnding to anything knife fighter says, but if for one minute you think you cant develop enough power without swinging your arm, you DO NOT know how to propely kick , this is basic simple stuff , not rocket science.

thank you Omar for searching for a good pic.

[Knifefighter]

I cant belevie I am even respopnding to anything knife fighter says, but if for one minute you think you cant develop enough power without swinging your arm, you DO NOT know how to propely kick , this is basic simple stuff , not rocket science.

thank you Omar for searching for a good pic.

OK, so post a clip of someone doing it in a full contact fight the way you think it is supposed to be done.

[SoCo KungFu]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs173.ash2/41791_115275181852450_9088_n.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7hsE04y0znY/TEb0H_b1ZwI/AAAAAAAAByw/Pt59zo4mKv8/s1600/jcvd.jpg

The difference between Chuck and Jean Fraude van Damme. Its not just the action jeans...

[SoCo KungFu]

http://www.mstillsucks.com/images/umstillsucks/OSUNick.jpg

[Violent Designs]

http://www.k-1.co.jp/database/060630img/OF_Yodsanklai_Kamal_3.jpg

[Knifefighter]

http://www.k-1.co.jp/database/060630img/OF_Yodsanklai_Kamal_3.jpg


Of course, all the clueless, fantasy kung fu sifus would simply punch him in the face when he pulled the arm back.

[SoCo KungFu]

Just cuz it popped up when googling roundhouse

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/7/jul13nsfw02-roundhouse-buns.jpg

[Lucas]

Just cuz it popped up when googling roundhouse

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/7/jul13nsfw02-roundhouse-buns.jpg

what was this thread about?

[YouKnowWho]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/__HKVaUYUxJg/TLznjB4RSiI/AAAAAAAAC-M/3s_QjMyHBW8/ROUND-HOUSEKICK.jpg
I like that posture too.

If his opponent advances, his right arm is also in an excellent position and angle to deliever a powerful hook punch at his opponent's head when he drops his right foot back on the ground.

Most Kempo Karate guys like to drop their leading arm and only use their back hand to guard their head (as shown in this picture). The moment that you move in, their downward dropping arm will come up with a ridge hand (they use more ridge hand than hook punch) toward your head. The moment you pay attention on their ridge hand, their kick will come out

[mooyingmantis]

This

You can even get a guy to kick you in the thigh, or take a metal or wooden stick and "condition" it while sitting in a low horse stance.

It might help somewhat but...

When the real thing happens, it's *STILL* going to hurt like a mother, that is *IF* you let him kick you there.

Look, why even let the guy kick you in the leg/thigh/knees/calves?

Why not check them with your heel or with your shin.

There's nothing "cool" about proving how many leg kicks you can eat while sitting in a low sei ping ma chanting away LOL.

-EarthDragon

I know what you mean my post toward mooying came off pretty harsh initially but you know, when people make really bold statements like that sometimes it's annoying to see and I go right ahead and make a bold statement back at them. I don't get in much arguments here at all but it's usually something I find to be untrue based on all of my experience (which is not much but I do train with professional fighters)

I agree that anyone who lets someone pummel their thigh intentionally is a fool. My point was that through proper conditioning, as you described, a TCMA fighter has an advantage. So apparently we both agree on that. It is also possible to take a kick to the thigh in such a way that the IT band is not involved.
Avoiding, checking, or moving in to stifle the kick would be proper methods of handling a leg kick.

It is important to realize that in my 42 years of training I have fought other martial artists, boxers, wrestlers, jujutsuans, etc.. I have tested and had my skills tested over and over. I do not claim that I have won every sparring/tournament match. However, I have won every street fight that I have been in. That is my only concern.

At 52 years old I don't feel the need to win trophies or build a "fighting reputation". Peeps who have known me for decades can vouch for my skills.

I try very hard to conduct myself like a gentleman on this board. That is how we were taught to behave decades ago. I do not make personal attacks, regardless of how passionately I oppose someone else's opinion.

It is possible to dismantle someone's logic while leaving the person's character and reputation intact. (insert group hug here)

Omar,
Excellent photo and explanation!

[Lucas]

cung le is arguable one of the best, and definately one of the most frequent kickers in todays pro mma world. and hes definately better than most if not everyone that posts here.

here is a kicking highlight reel of a pro using his kicks in full contact mma fights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kItU8sK7jgg

[Knifefighter]

cung le is arguable one of the best, and definately one of the most frequent kickers in todays pro mma world. and hes definately better than most if not everyone that posts here.

here is a kicking highlight reel of a pro using his kicks in full contact mma fights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kItU8sK7jgg

And guess what? He drops his hands all over the place when he kicks.

But what does he know? I'm sure the clueless kung fu "sifus" could teach him how to fight like a "real" kung fu fighter.

[Lucas]

correct. you will notice rarely do both his hands stay up, but generally when they do, those look like feelers or set ups and not fully committed. granted they probably still hurt if they get a target, but ya...

oh ya, from reading the comments that song is called "clubbed to death" lol

[Knifefighter]

correct. you will notice rarely do both his hands stay up, but generally when they do, those look like feelers or set ups and not fully committed. granted they probably still hurt if they get a target, but ya...

oh ya, from reading the comments that song is called "clubbed to death" lol

Of course his hands don't stay up. That's why he is one of the best fighters out there. If he was trained and fought the way the clueless sifus think he should, he'd be getting ko'ed all over the place.

[Lucas]

during cung le's younger years he did study viet style 'kungfu', my sifu was viet and if its any thing the same its some style of standard cma with lots of conditioning and drills and a few forms for what ever the style is.

i wouldnt say he is a kung fu fighter or (edit: even a sanshou fighter) anymore though, he is mma. you still see he retains his traditional kungfu bowing in alot of his vids and stuff, but you know that guy is so busy, all pros are, and he just cant possibly have time for doing forms and crap. he has to spend his time as effeciently as he can when training.

but the point really is if you look at any guy like him or silva or any full body striker, you really are seeing someone who just used a vehicle of a 'style' to arrive at full body coordination for power development and effeciency. so when u see those big pros fight, you really are seeing a machine just destroy ****.

[Lucas]

lol wow we posted exact same minute


but ya, you will see him either keep one hand around for guard or he drops them both, but he knows when to do that.

its not dangerous really to drop your hand, IF you can gague when. thats whats really important is not if but when. imo but you also see people get ktfo cuz they just dont do it at the right time.

edit: well if you want big power in your kicks. it depends on what your doing with your kick

look at olympic tkd, do they even raise their hands ? lol

[Lucas]

i havnt even read a fraction of this thread, and after seeing that magnificent circle of snatch, im not going to.

but look, we all know there are ranges. we all know there is timing. we all know there are maximum and minimum efforts to develop power in any strike.

thats all it really is.

[Knifefighter]

I agree that anyone who lets someone pummel their thigh intentionally is a fool. My point was that through proper conditioning, as you described, a TCMA fighter has an advantage.

LOL... now you are saying the TCMA fighter has an advantage at taking kicks to the leg because he does stance training?

No, the guy who has the advantage is the guy who does the full contact prep work and competition with leg kicks.

If standing in stances gave you an advantage, the MT fighters would be the kings of stance training.

This is what happens when redneck white guys who live out in the middle of nowhere get introduced to kung fu and never have anyone set them straight.

[Lucas]

1234567890

[Knifefighter]

Took it off just in case.

[Lokhopkuen]

Also maybe your kick is so ****ing strong that you force them to block with both arms and buckle them still. :D

This mind set will get you hurt:rolleyes:

[Violent Designs]

This mind set will get you hurt:rolleyes:

Works pretty well for a lot of Thai boxers Kisu.

PM me if you wanna discuss the concepts.

[Lokhopkuen]

And guess what? He drops his hands all over the place when he kicks.

But what does he know? I'm sure the clueless kung fu "sifus" could teach him how to fight like a "real" kung fu fighter.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/25003/kick-fail-o.gif
OMG this guy drops his as well;)
http://www.gifsoup.com/view/27813/kick-o.gif
You're on to something BIG!

[Violent Designs]

This mind set will get you hurt:rolleyes:

Not to be rude but I'm training full-time getting ready to compete soon.... I have a lot of confidence in my kicks and my style of fighting.

BTW you are welcome to come to my match when it goes down.

Oh KnifeFighter you are also welcome to come although it probably won't be that great as I'm no pro and these are just smoker matches, you won't see godly technique or stuff like that.

[omarthefish]

I'm wrong. Dropping your guard to kick is the best thing to do. . .
As I pointed out with that nice pic on the previous page, you drop your hand, not your guard.

We're only talking about the same side hand. Most of us still have another one to protect our chin with.

[omarthefish]

I like that posture too.

If his opponent advances, his right arm is also in an excellent position and angle to deliever a powerful hook punch at his opponent's head when he drops his right foot back on the ground.
That's exactly how the combo often goes.

jab-->cross-->roundhouse-->hook

Not a very technical hook but I don't know what else to call it.

[Violent Designs]

That's exactly how the combo often goes.

jab-->cross-->roundhouse-->hook

Not a very technical hook but I don't know what else to call it.

Sao chui? :D

[omarthefish]

lol.

Yeah. I suppose so.

[-N-]

Dropping the hand down acts as a counterbalance and is needed in developing power. Watch any full contact fight that involves kicking and you will see examples of that... everything from MMA, to Muay Thai, to K1, to Kyokushinkai does this because they have to.


Also maybe your kick is so ****ing strong that you force them to block with both arms and buckle them still. :D

That is how Brendan Lai taught to do round house kick.

[YouKnowWho]

you drop your hand, not your guard.
- A thrower may like to enter with "raise guard" in order to "tangle" and "wrap" his opponent's arms.
- A striker may like to enter with "drop gurad" in order to have that proper distance for his most powerful punch.

Sometime not only people drop their arm, they even put their arm behind. That back arm is no diffenence from the back leg round house kick. It gives his opponent a feeling that, "If you dare to come in, I'll give you everything that I got". It will force you to be cautious during your entering if your opponent has that kind of fighting posture. A strange and different fighting style. I believe it came from the ancient sword fight.

Please look at 0.19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYE3DJ2IltY&feature=related

and 3.54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj1iI68AQo8&feature=related

Please watch the guy in yellow.

http://johnswang.com/fight_3.wmv

[Lokhopkuen]

Not to be rude but I'm training full-time getting ready to compete soon.... I have a lot of confidence in my kicks and my style of fighting.

BTW you are welcome to come to my match when it goes down.

Oh KnifeFighter you are also welcome to come although it probably won't be that great as I'm no pro and these are just smoker matches, you won't see godly technique or stuff like that.

Thank you.

[Violent Designs]

Thank you.

I will let you know, hopefully soon but I don't wanna rush it.

Always so much stuff to work on for a noob like me. :(

[bawang]

man when u fight film it man so i can masterbate to it pls man pls

[Violent Designs]

man when u fight film it man so i can masterbate to it pls man pls

i thought u don't wanna be buddy-buddy with me WTF...

STOP P LAYING GAMES WITH ME.

heart breaker

[bawang]

really tho i wish u best of luck. throw some dirty wrist sow choi kick ass

[Violent Designs]

really tho i wish u best of luck. throw some dirty wrist sow choi kick ass

you know what's funny, according to some Thai friends (who fight MT in Thailand) using the wrist/forearm bone to hit the opponent is considered a "dirty move" and is used for sleazy KOs.

LOL

[YouKnowWho]

according to some Thai friends (who fight MT in Thailand) using the wrist/forearm bone to hit the opponent is considered a "dirty move" and is used for sleazy KOs.

To use the inside edge of your forearm to hit the back of your opponent's head will be an excellent move. It can turn into a head lock afterward. Have you tried to use your sharp elbow to meet your opponent's instep? Also try to turn your shin bone to meet your opponent's low round house kick, and then use your other leg to hook his standing leg.

[Violent Designs]

To use the inside edge of your forearm to hit the back of your opponent's head will be an excellent move. It can turn into a head lock afterward. Have you tried to use your sharp elbow to meet your opponent's instep? Also try to turn your shin bone to meet your opponent's low round house kick, and then use your other leg to hook his standing leg.

The forearm - I agree

The elbow spike the foot - actually I have not done it to anyone yet (not skilled enough), but I have had people do it to me, although mostly by accident.

If it was on purpose and I find out... someone at the gym is gonna feel my wrath!!!

Turning the shin bone to block the kick, I have not done that one yet.

This one (the way I picture in my brain) is best if they kick the INSIDE of the leg? Then u can turn the knee, have them hit your knee instead of the thigh.

Of course then you can do the foot sweep.

Another technique to counter a middle/high kick I was taught, a "trick" was to bend down, then sweep/kick them in the heel tendon, to knock them down.

[YouKnowWho]

It will also work if your opponent kicks the OUTSIDE of your leg. If you twist your foot and turn your knee into that low round house kick, you can have a very strong base. It's CMA 5 elements strategy, "metal cut wood". If the kick slide above your knee, you may be able to catch it.

The bend down forward or backward sweep is a bit too fancy for my taste. It's like trying to kill a fly with a hammer. I prefer the regular "foot sweep" that you sweep your opponent's leg and pull his shoulder back at the same time. You don't need to get that low , and 2 points contact is always better than just 1 point contact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwS0aPedoEo

[Violent Designs]

It will also work if your opponent kicks the OUTSIDE of your leg. If you twist your foot and turn your knee into that low round house kick, you can have a very strong base. It's CMA 5 elements strategy, "metal cut wood". If the kick slide above your knee, you may be able to catch it.

I will try it.


The bend down sweep is a bit too fancy for my taste. It's like trying to kill a fly with a hammer. I prefer the regular "foot sweep" that you sweep your opponent's leg and pull his shoulder back at the same time. 2 points contact is always better than just 1 point contact.

I agree, I have never made it work yet. But maybe because I am a beginner as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwS0aPedoEo

This link is good, excellent technique.

Thanks for sharing.

[bawang]

you know what's funny, according to some Thai friends (who fight MT in Thailand) using the wrist/forearm bone to hit the opponent is considered a "dirty move" and is used for sleazy KOs.

LOL

i kno. show no mercy. spam dat sh1t.
its prety hypocritical for your thai friends to call the wrist swing dirty when they can swing their shins around and elbow and knee full force, no pads.
try kicking the small abdomen also. soemtimes it hurts your balls. its the only legal way to get a groin shot lol.

[Violent Designs]

i kno. show no mercy. spam dat sh1t.
its prety hypocritical for your thai friends to call the wrist swing dirty when they can swing their shins around and elbow and knee full force, no pads.
kicking near their balls works too. u hit the small stomach hard enough they can feel it to their balls.

those Thais are so full of sh1t aren't they?

[bawang]

also u know man take some legal stimulants before ur fight. most ppl at college i met who had amatur comps were juicin like hell and took something something before their fight.
even in old kung fu days most lei tai fighters take opium lol

[Violent Designs]

also u know man take some legal stimulants before ur fight. most ppl at college i met who had amatur comps were juicin like hell and took something something before their fight.

even in old kung fu days most lei tai fighters take opium lol

you are right, i should take something even if it's just like a nitric-oxide lol.

ALSO IN SMOKERS THEY DON'T DO BLOOD TESTS OR THAT KINDA SH1T HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

oh man I could really abuse this, LOL

[bawang]

im not saying you should take cotton or dust, but u know drinking lots of red bull is ok too. or even rubbing some jow.

some guys say drinking a little vodka or a little puff of grass before your fight makes you aggresive and u see red

but you know dont do anything that makes your balls shrink to size of raisins or sh1t blood you know try to stay clean. but just warning u the higher up you go the more sh1t u gotta take.

lots of guys train hard and wonder why the top fighters have "it", that special unexplainable factor. i tell you right now the "it" is something you shoot up your buttcheeks and make tito ortizs jaw balloon three times its size.

[Violent Designs]

i think jow would be good

oh you know, i prefer to be calm in a fight actually, heart rate not too high....

i'm still a newbie, get anxious, nervous.

like to listen to classical music, calm music....

My style is more technical/methodical, i like to stalk my opponent.

that said I start out slowly and i get annoyed at people who go crazy from the first second (like everyone at this amateur level).

in a 3-round fight (what im doing) I have to win the 2nd and 3rd round because i can easily lose the first due to my opponent throwing like 10x the amount of punches and kicks i am.

thankfully, they usually get tired after that LOLOL

[bawang]

nice. u have strtagy. ur smrat.

yeah thing about agressiveness, sometimes people are easy going and they dont have it, when they fight they try to force it then bam run out of gas in 3 min.
watch out for guys who stay agressive the whole time. theres people out there that wake up angry and eat their bacon and cereals angry u kno.

u worry me when u said classical music thats some queer sh1t but hopefully u can film ur fight we see. when is it happening?

[Violent Designs]

I was thinking of fighting this weekend but don't feel like my body is in shape.

there are smokers going on 1-2 times a month, I just show up and see if there is an opponent at my weight.

pretty ghetto sh1t


u worry me when u said classical music thats some queer sh1t but hopefully u can film ur fight we see.

my best friend thinks ii'm going to become a serial killer one day.

apparently listening to classical music is creepy too. LOL :D

classical is good, like THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUfd0YWeg4

then i listen to something methodical/slow but super heavy like how i enjoy fighting (i don't like throw more than 3 shots, and every shot i like with power)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U-bToFXUjs&ob=av3n

WTF THEY CENSORED THE PART IN END WHERE THE CHICK CUT HER OWN THROAT, WTF.

BEFORE U CAN SEE THE BLOOD SPILL OUT NOW THEY BLOCK IT.

[bawang]

do u know bands soul fly and sepultura
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SLytxsKZzo

[Violent Designs]

do u know bands soul fly and sepultura
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SLytxsKZzo

FIRST LET ME SAY. I HATE THE GANGSTA RAPPER WANNABE ASIAN KIDS.

like wearing the black ppl clothes and trying to talk like they from 50 cent rap video. LOL.

soul fly is meh, not really my style.

sepultura i used to listen to not much lately though.

i prefer slower heavy stuff.

Meshuggah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkrjE4QRsys

i don't like black metal much but i love Emperor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t0GRH3yoiI

also industrial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjvIuadN59g

[bawang]

man its not hard to bulk up. just get bigger if ur too lightweight. im like a rollercoaster i gain and lose muscle so fast because of school. last summer i was 160 then went down to 140 after eating instant noodles and corn flakes. 4 years ago when i was working at chinatown i went down to 120 pound rofles
i dont know about u bredther for me after my college midterm over im training like crazy.

[Dragonzbane76]

dropkick murphy/flogging molly b!tches......:)

[Violent Designs]

i stay the same weight for 2 years now lol.

man i love how much this thread derails.

i should just start a thread that says:

"talk about anything, flame each other, disagree, music, foods, weight lifting, serial killers, and bears."

[bawang]

i think obama is a great man. he is black.

man why u staying the same weight? u scared of lifting? i got scared of lifting after i fuked up my back in high school but now i started liftin again slow and steady its pretty easy. if u wanna look small its easy dont do bicep curls lol.

[Violent Designs]

i think obama is a great man. he is black.

man why u staying the same weight? u scared of lifting? i got scared of lifting after i fuked up my back in high school but now i started liftin again slow and steady its pretty easy. if u wanna look small dont do bicep curls lol.

i never got into lifting weights too lazy.

i'd rather hit stuff and spar LOL

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is no different then a punch.
some say the power in a punch comes from the shoulder
more experienced people will say from the waist
your most expereinced will say from the toe

And the best fighters and coaches will use/train you to use ALL of the above.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/__HKVaUYUxJg/TLznjB4RSiI/AAAAAAAAC-M/3s_QjMyHBW8/ROUND-HOUSEKICK.jpg



Having done ITF Taekwon do and getting a 3rd degree BB from Choi himself.
Having done Kyokushin and getting a nidan.
And having done MT, I have been exposed to 3 different types of round kicks ( the fourth is the "shotokan type") and I can say, at least for me and for what I have observed in competing in those venues at the national and international level, is that:
For full contact where speed and power is of the upmost importance you wanna kick like the picture above ( Chai right?).

[Iron_Eagle_76]

You will always generate more power with a swinging roundhouse, I call a power roundhouse, which is the same pretty much as Muay Thai RH.

Anytime you chamber a kick you are going for speed and snap rather than crushing power. I like to throw a snapping roundhouse from my front leg, which I compare to a jab in boxing.

The difference is that kicks take much more energy and while you can throw 10 or 12 jabs without burning much energy throwing that many kicks will deplete you fast unless you have insane cardio. In other words, get it right the first time.;)

[Knifefighter]

I'm wrong. Dropping your guard to kick is the best thing to do.

Professional fighters do it that way. We all know that pro fighters have the ultimate way of doing everything. Look at boxers 100 years ago, they fought exactly like boxers today, there is no change because they are elite pro fighters and have mastered combat perfection..

Yeah, we all know the kung fu guys can do it better than the professional fighters. :rolleyes:

... at least in their theoretical fantasy worlds.

[omarthefish]

You will always generate more power with a swinging roundhouse, I call a power roundhouse, which is the same pretty much as Muay Thai RH.

Anytime you chamber a kick you are going for speed and snap rather than crushing power. I like to throw a snapping roundhouse from my front leg, which I compare to a jab in boxing.

The difference is that kicks take much more energy and while you can throw 10 or 12 jabs without burning much energy throwing that many kicks will deplete you fast unless you have insane cardio. In other words, get it right the first time.;)

I gotta say...after spending a few months in Muay Thai...not a lifetime, ok, maybe 6 months top...one thing I learned for sure....was that that difference, the one between chambering and snapping with speed vs. "Muay Thai style"...






is complete and utter Bool****e.

Spent the fist 2 or 3 months trying to learn to kick the pads "Muay Thai" style. Then one day, just for kicks (pardon the pun) I reverted to the way learned back in my TKD days oh so many moons ago.




Suddenly the pad holder's eyes lighted up and he said something like, "Allright...now we're talking...much better...."

Debating the supposed differences between a "Muay Thai" roundhouse and a TKD roundhouse are just the same as debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[EarthDragon]

not really just a differetn type of kick. in mnatis we have 3 different types of ront kicks
1. scoop kick, focus s in the tarsel bones of the feet and target is under the tests
2. snap kick focus is the ball of the foot, target , knee,stomach, bladder, ribs etc etc
3. thrust kick, focus in the heel , taget abdomen, to push opponent away

[EarthDragon]

not really just a differetn type of kick. in mnatis we have 3 different types of ront kicks
1. scoop kick, focus s in the tarsel bones of the feet and target is under the tests
2. snap kick focus is the ball of the foot, target , knee,stomach, bladder, ribs etc etc
3. thrust kick, focus in the heel , taget abdomen, to push opponent away

you can have differences in the RH as well the top of the foot, ball of the foot or shin

[omarthefish]

not really just a differetn type of kick. in mnatis we have 3 different types of ront kicks
1. scoop kick, focus s in the tarsel bones of the feet and target is under the tests
2. snap kick focus is the ball of the foot, target , knee,stomach, bladder, ribs etc etc
3. thrust kick, focus in the heel , taget abdomen, to push opponent away

you can have differences in the RH as well the top of the foot, ball of the foot or shin

Those are actually different kicks.

A "Muay Thai Roundhouse" is no different from a "TKD roundhouse". It's just posturing and trash talk. Both are "roundhouse kicks".

You delineated 3 specific kicks, not 3 different "styles" of the same kick. You listed uses and targets. Simple fact: A"Muay Thai Roudhouse" can be applied with the shin or the instep. No difference. If you are targeting the neck, you use the area between the instep and the bottom of the shin. A shot to the side of the face works good with the instep. A thigh shot does more damage with the shin. Same kick.

A Front Kick and a Teep are not particularly different. There is no Muay Thai dogma saying that a teep must be used to push rather than to strike. You can stomp with it, push with the ball of the foot or snap it out like a front kick. My personal experience with Muay Thai was that it was most useful as a push kick but I have seen plenty of footage of people actually striking with it. . . just like in Karate.

[Knifefighter]

not really just a differetn type of kick. in mnatis we have 3 different types of ront kicks
1. scoop kick, focus s in the tarsel bones of the feet and target is under the tests
2. snap kick focus is the ball of the foot, target , knee,stomach, bladder, ribs etc etc
3. thrust kick, focus in the heel , taget abdomen, to push opponent away

you can have differences in the RH as well the top of the foot, ball of the foot or shin

BTW, another way you can generally tell when someone has zero or very little actual full-contact application experience is they say: "In (insert style name here), we have (insert technique name here)."

Notice the difference in the above two posts. In the second one, you never hear omar saying "In MT we have this technique."

[ShaolinDan]

Debating the supposed differences between a "Muay Thai" roundhouse and a TKD roundhouse are just the same as debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Are we talking cherubim or seraphim?

[MasterKiller]

Are we talking cherubim or seraphim?

He's actually talking about strippers and his pen1s.

[omarthefish]

cherubim?

Are you f'ing kidding me?

Who the heck wants to count those chubby little bastiches.

[EarthDragon]

omar, I thought thats what i said... different kicks, perhaps I explianed it incorrectly. Not trying to compare MT as I dont know much about it.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I gotta say...after spending a few months in Muay Thai...not a lifetime, ok, maybe 6 months top...one thing I learned for sure....was that that difference, the one between chambering and snapping with speed vs. "Muay Thai style"...






is complete and utter Bool****e.

Spent the fist 2 or 3 months trying to learn to kick the pads "Muay Thai" style. Then one day, just for kicks (pardon the pun) I reverted to the way learned back in my TKD days oh so many moons ago.




Suddenly the pad holder's eyes lighted up and he said something like, "Allright...now we're talking...much better...."

Debating the supposed differences between a "Muay Thai" roundhouse and a TKD roundhouse are just the same as debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

I think you lost the point of what I was saying. They are both effective kicks, one generates more power than the other. If you are saying a snap kick is just as powerful as a swing or power kick, I disagree. But I have seen some crazy power generated from guys with snap kicks kicking with the instep, so I don't buy into the claim that the Thai way is the only way to do it. But it comes down to physics. The momentum you carry with a swing kick is much greater than that of a snap kick. It could be that you have kind of interwined the two and you roll the hips and swing the kick more than you think.

[omarthefish]

I think you lost the point of what I was saying.
Right back at you.

My point has nothing to do with comparing Muay Thai kicks to some other kicks. My entire point is that there is no such thing as a "Muay Thai Roundhouse". There are only roundhouse kicks. There's snapping one's and there's heavy follow through one's but there's no real trademark on any of it. You kick a bag and some pad a while and everyone on this earth who's ever put it to the test with partner to give him feedback, eventually figures out all the ways to do it an experiments.

There's just nothing particularly "Muay Thai" about one way or "Kung Fu" about another way. It's just a roundhouse. Adding style labels only confuses the issue.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not to be a rat ******* about this but:
Even WTF and ITF have different round kicks, even more so when the front leg is used.
ITF, for example, uses the narrow chamber, all kicks are initially chambered the same way, as a front kick, and as the kick is launched the hip turns over and the support foot rotates 180 away from the target and the ball of the foot makes contact.
The wtf is more like a MT round.
The Karate round kick has, typically, no hip rotation because of the distance it is used/develops for.
Kyokushin round kicks tend to fall between karate and MT ones.
And we are not even talking about Brasilian Kyokushin down round kicks yet !

[EarthDragon]

from my years in karate, the focus of (mae washi geri) is the ball of the foot never the top, shin or instep. This is becuse the japense feel the need to foucs thier atention to the pin point for proper ki flow and snap the hip as in a side kick sharp "snap". They say there no point to focus attention when the kick swings.

In mantis we swing like MT style for our mantis kick, no chamber, so no one is better there just different, however I personally get more power form the swinging motion ki or not when using the rear leg that is

[Iron_Eagle_76]

from my years in karate, the focus of (mae washi geri) is the ball of the foot never the top, shin or instep. This is becuse the japense feel the need to foucs thier atention to the pin point for proper ki flow and snap the hip as in a side kick sharp "snap". They say there no point to focus attention when the kick swings.

In mantis we swing like MT style for our mantis kick, no chamber, so no one is better there just different, however I personally get more power form the swinging motion ki or not when using the rear leg that is

If you are talking Mae Washi Geri from a Shotokan aspect, yes. In my experience sparring Kyokushin guys, they throw roundhouse kicks more like thai style but that could just be in my limited experience with that style.

[bawang]

snappy kicks are fake and gay. real kung fu kicks are manly and strong.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you are talking Mae Washi Geri from a Shotokan aspect, yes. In my experience sparring Kyokushin guys, they throw roundhouse kicks more like thai style but that could just be in my limited experience with that style.

In kyokushin the round kick is done with the instep or the shin (lower) perferably the shin, but the ball is also used for the "triangle kick" which is short range 45 deg round kick to the body or inner thigh.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

snappy kicks are fake and gay. real kung fu kicks are manly and strong.

Quoted for truth:p

[David Jamieson]

you ever been kicked in the nuts with a snappy little front kick?

yeah, that's fake and gay? :rolleyes:

you ever wonder why there is that silly little short front kick with the very tip of the toes being the striking surface?

does every kick need to be a power blast full on to the thigh? ribs? head?

you think a tiny little kick to the nuts isn't effective?

well, ok, you got some living to do I guess. lol

It's obvious what that kick represents. In most styes of kung fu, a kick to the nuts is actually recommended. lol

so who of you can't be stopped by a tap to the nads? no cup?

Tu doens't count. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sometimes you can't kick with "whole body power" .
I recall I was in a crowd once, while working as a bouncer and a fight broke out and I didn't have much space to "move", I mean it was REALLY crowed, should-to-shoulder type of crowd.
So low crossed kick one guy in the knee in a snapping way more than the typical stomping and the other gut I snapped kneed him a few times in the groin and preached the word of buddha to him.
Sure the steel soled boots helped but still, there was really no room to do anyting other than something snappy.

[EarthDragon]

ironeagle,
actually I trained in Okinawan, GoJu Ryu. not sure about Funakoshi's style, But it seems to be a common thread in the japanese arts, they really like to snap thier kicks more than swing.

sanjuro,
this is whiel you were on the clock? I reason I ask is I have bounced for a lot of years and had 2 law suits filed agaisnt me for using uneccsary excessive force...... whatever that means, but it was always the rule to break up a fight without causing or inflicting pain or injury, however NYS laws are the toughest when it comes to this so who knows.

[Lucas]

lol i can see it now:

SJ is quickly kneeing this guy in the nuts in the middle of a crowded club, quietly mentioning in his foes ear; 'namu amida butsu' until he's downd from blue balls.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

ironeagle,
actually I trained in Okinawan, GoJu Ryu. not sure about Funakoshi's style, But it seems to be a common thread in the japanese arts, they really like to snap thier kicks more than swing.

Yeah, I agree with this. The reason I brough up Kyokushin is because it was the one Karate style that did not fit into that pattern, at least in my experience. I studied Shotokan and Okinawan Shuri-Te and both were very similiar to what you were describing as snapping kicks.

[bawang]

snappy groin kicks are useless. all i have to do is use my golden cidada/turtle head skill and retract my testicles into my body. then i trap your leg with my thighs and break it. GAME OVER

[sanjuro_ronin]

ironeagle,
actually I trained in Okinawan, GoJu Ryu. not sure about Funakoshi's style, But it seems to be a common thread in the japanese arts, they really like to snap thier kicks more than swing.

sanjuro,
this is whiel you were on the clock? I reason I ask is I have bounced for a lot of years and had 2 law suits filed agaisnt me for using uneccsary excessive force...... whatever that means, but it was always the rule to break up a fight without causing or inflicting pain or injury, however NYS laws are the toughest when it comes to this so who knows.

Well, we get away with a lot over here, but not as much now as in my time.
Of course I had a few things going for me:
1) I am short and not very intimidating and the last thing people want is to admit getting their clocked cleaned by me, LOL!
2) I am a ninja, so no one see me !! ( see above)
3) Cops over here have no patience for aholes in clubs
4) Lawsuits tend to have to be very serious up here and not frivilous "he hurt me because I stuck my hand up a girls skirt your honor".
5) I am ninja !!
6) I bounced from 88 to 1998, with a 4 years break while in the army, and boucned in night clubs and strip clubs and don't recall even ONE lawsuit VS anyone I ever worked with.
7) We are all ninjas.

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol i can see it now:

SJ is quickly kneeing this guy in the nuts in the middle of a crowded club, quietly mentioning in his foes ear; 'namu amida butsu' until he's downd from blue balls.

That was you ??
Sorry dude.
:D

[EarthDragon]

snajuro
where in Ontario? I actually worked in Hamilton for a year on the weekends at Monopolies in Hamilton down the mountain on King st.

But yeah lawsuits down here are ridiculous. I read in the NYtimes where a guy broke into someone's house through a basement window, cut himself on a broken glass and sued the people who owned the house he broke into and won..... could you imagine?

[Hardwork108]

Having done ITF Taekwon do and getting a 3rd degree BB from Choi himself.
Having done Kyokushin and getting a nidan.
And having done MT, I have been exposed to 3 different types of round kicks ( the fourth is the "shotokan type") and I can say, at least for me and for what I have observed in competing in those venues at the national and international level, is that:
For full contact where speed and power is of the upmost importance you wanna kick like the picture above ( Chai right?).

What, no Wing Chun round kick?

Of course, that one is a low round kick, and one's hands are always guarding the central line, and the kick rarely goes above the thigh level, even if sometimes the kidneys are targeted, when available.

EDIT: This round kick still sticks to the central line principles of Wing Chun.

[sanjuro_ronin]

snajuro
where in Ontario? I actually worked in Hamilton for a year on the weekends at Monopolies in Hamilton down the mountain on King st.

But yeah lawsuits down here are ridiculous. I read in the NYtimes where a guy broke into someone's house through a basement window, cut himself on a broken glass and sued the people who owned the house he broke into and won..... could you imagine?

Monoploy?
Dude ! did we work together ???
I worked at Monopoly back in, let me see...97 I think.

[YouKnowWho]

there is no such thing as a "Muay Thai Roundhouse". There are only roundhouse kicks.
I like this kind of attitude. There is no "my way" or "your way" but "right way" or "wrong way". Since I had a MT sparring partner for many years (his Say Hi oriental grocery store was just next to my Kung Fu school.), I do believe that the way that MT guy's roundhouse kick follow the MA general principle, "use body to pull llimbs." The TKD snap roundhouse kick is more like the CMA foot sweep that the final extention on the knee joint is important.

[EarthDragon]

sanjuro
this would have been 1992-1993 and alsoat Banisters the stirp club across from the Royal Connaut hotel on Queen.
So your from Hamilton? I pratically grew up there. I usde to roller skate all over Canada in the 80's and 90's rollergarden on stone church rd on the mountain, missasauga, erin mills parkway, roller world on centnetial dr...

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro
this would have been 1992-1993 and alsoat Banisters the stirp club across from the Royal Connaut hotel on Queen.
So your from Hamilton? I pratically grew up there. I usde to roller skate all over Canada in the 80's and 90's rollergarden on stone church rd on the mountain, missasauga, erin mills parkway, roller world on centnetial dr...

Ah, no I am from Toronto but worked in Hamilton for a time.
Lets see...in 92 I was bouncing at Flaming Road and Brass rail before I joined the Army in 93.

[EarthDragon]

yep we missed each other by a bit, right on though small world. I was just in TO. guvernment then comfort zone what a weekend.... when is prostituion going to legal up there?

[sanjuro_ronin]

yep we missed each other by a bit, right on though small world. I was just in TO. guvernment then comfort zone what a weekend.... when is prostituion going to legal up there?

LOL,
Solicitation is illegal, but you can order an escort or visit one and it i s legal and so are rub-n-tugs in Mississauga if they have a license.

[EarthDragon]

I was under the impression they are just waiting for the law to be passed...... am I incorrect

[sanjuro_ronin]

I was under the impression they are just waiting for the law to be passed...... am I incorrect

There was a recent verdict by a judge that said that laws against keeping a "bawdy house" and living off the avails of prostitution were unconstitutional but that ruling has been or may be appealed, I don't know for sure.
Don't follow it unless the news talks about it.

[EarthDragon]

gottcha, thqats why I love canada, you guys even grow pot in the molson candian beer factory! God Bless the Candians

[sanjuro_ronin]

gottcha, thqats why I love canada, you guys even grow pot in the molson candian beer factory! God Bless the Candians

LOL, not quite that liberal.
The bust grow ops all the time.

[David Jamieson]

Yeah, they found that there were conditions in the catch laws for prostitution that contravened the canadian Charter of rights as well as our constitution so they were struck down.

prostitution has been legal in canada forever.

the conditions that were struck down were:

1. open solicitation for the purposes of sex trade

2. keeping a common bawdy house

3. living off the avails of prostitution

these three conditions have been kiboshed. what we need to look at is safeguarding people from human trafficking.

I personally would like to see a well regulated, taxed and safe red light district.

For one thing it would ensure disease free prostitutes for the most part. It would insure that they could work and be safe and it would remove the ridiculous puritan stigmas that are rife in North America and gotta go.

A secular country has no room for a bunch of old ruminations from the church. Which in it's track record is by record of action a criminal organization.

fwiw, the government grows weed for medical marijuana users in an old neutrino collection facility in the province to the west of us.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Prostitution laws have nothing to do with religion, there were prostitutes in Jesus' time and while it was NOT a career choice that ANYONE would want for their child ( except for a few pagan religions and their temple prostitutes), it was not illegal.
Of course Paul didn't think that a follower of Christ should soil himself with a prostitute, but that was a suggestion on his part, not a commandment on Jesus' part.
It became a criminal offense because of misguided puritans more than anything else.
No, the church does NOT favor prostitution and being with one is considered a sin, but the church does NOT make civil laws and never has.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

You know, only in this forum could a thread that started about Thai kicks turn into a conversation about prostitutes from the Jesus times. This place is fuc**king awesome!!:D

[YouKnowWho]

It could be worse. It could turn into "self cultivation", "spiritual development", and "Qi generation" discussion. I'm quite surprised that nobody ever asked, "What's the 'internal' way to do roundhouse kick?" or "How to apply Dan Tien vibration to enhance roundhouse kick?"

[EarthDragon]

How to apply Dan Tien vibration to enhance roundhouse kick?"

actually all movment starts from the center. does that count?

[omarthefish]

Prostitution laws have nothing to do with religion, there were prostitutes in Jesus' time and while it was NOT a career choice that ANYONE would want for their child ( except for a few pagan religions and their temple prostitutes), it was not illegal.

That is only an argument that it wasn't originally a religious issue.

I think you'd have a hard time completely divorcing those laws from the Protestant Reformation.

[omarthefish]

Back on topic....


Not to be a rat ******* about this but:
Even WTF and ITF have different round kicks, even more so when the front leg is used.
ITF, for example, uses the narrow chamber, all kicks are initially chambered the same way, as a front kick, and as the kick is launched the hip turns over and the support foot rotates 180 away from the target and the ball of the foot makes contact.
The wtf is more like a MT round.
The Karate round kick has, typically, no hip rotation because of the distance it is used/develops for.
Kyokushin round kicks tend to fall between karate and MT ones.
And we are not even talking about Brasilian Kyokushin down round kicks yet !

Never did any Karate but I can use Ed Parkers Kenpo, a bunch of Mu Duk Kwon (Army TKD basically), some Hopkido as reference Mu Duk Kwon.

I certainly was taught different mechanics but when the pads came out and we were actually kicking targets, I don't think there was any difference. The only 2 truly distinct round kicks I can identify are power kicks and point kicks and I don't mean point sparring. I mean using the tip of the shoe or the ball of the foot to stab into the person. Those little snappy things with a quick turn of the hip don't have much power but I dropped a guy with one once because it stabbed right into his solar plexus.

All that "lift and chamber" stuff I learned in TKD seemed to work just fine in my Muay Thai gym. It's not like I was pausing with my knee in the air or anything. Nobody seemed to particularly care how I got power. They'd just give me feedback from behind the thai pads. The things that were important to power from a technical standpoint, all the same. Drive through your target, lead with the hips. Pivot the standing foot.

I can see some minor differences here and there and I suppose I have seen the round kick with little or no hip rotation but I've seen that in Muay Thai too. Never seen it trained but people adjust to the circumstances. I think that kicks are like punches in that although you only have a half dozen punches maybe, in action, you can punch from any angle you want and people do. The categories are arbitrary. The best kickers I have met were like this too. Their legs were just incredibly ****ing agile. They'd come at you however the hell they felt like it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Back on topic....



Never did any Karate but I can use Ed Parkers Kenpo, a bunch of Mu Duk Kwon (Army TKD basically), some Hopkido as reference Mu Duk Kwon.

I certainly was taught different mechanics but when the pads came out and we were actually kicking targets, I don't think there was any difference. The only 2 truly distinct round kicks I can identify are power kicks and point kicks and I don't mean point sparring. I mean using the tip of the shoe or the ball of the foot to stab into the person. Those little snappy things with a quick turn of the hip don't have much power but I dropped a guy with one once because it stabbed right into his solar plexus.

All that "lift and chamber" stuff I learned in TKD seemed to work just fine in my Muay Thai gym. It's not like I was pausing with my knee in the air or anything. Nobody seemed to particularly care how I got power. They'd just give me feedback from behind the thai pads. The things that were important to power from a technical standpoint, all the same. Drive through your target, lead with the hips. Pivot the standing foot.

I can see some minor differences here and there and I suppose I have seen the round kick with little or no hip rotation but I've seen that in Muay Thai too. Never seen it trained but people adjust to the circumstances. I think that kicks are like punches in that although you only have a half dozen punches maybe, in action, you can punch from any angle you want and people do. The categories are arbitrary. The best kickers I have met were like this too. Their legs were just incredibly ****ing agile. They'd come at you however the hell they felt like it.

Agreed in regards to the practical kicks being more or less the same regardless.
My kicks tend to be a hybrid of MT and TKD, they are basically chambered MT kicks, they are NOT as chambered as TKD or Karate ones, but more chambered than the typical MT ones.
I think that we all tend to find the most natural way to kick and as we do full contact bag and pad work, that most natural of way becomes typical and since all humans are the same, you will see that same kick.

Ask a person to go up to a HB and round kick it as hard as they can and they will, typically, kick it all the same with very minor differences.

[omarthefish]

Thank you for understanding my larger point exactly.

I do recognize differences in how different schools explain the kicks and what they emphasize but, the HB point is what I was getting at. Ask someone from pretty much any style to just f'ing wail on that thing and you will be hard pressed to find differences. You'll find some...just not nearly as much as you would think reading these threads.

[bawang]

Prostitution laws have nothing to do with religion, there were prostitutes in Jesus' time and while it was NOT a career choice that ANYONE would want for their child ( except for a few pagan religions and their temple prostitutes), it was not illegal.
Of course Paul didn't think that a follower of Christ should soil himself with a prostitute, but that was a suggestion on his part, not a commandment on Jesus' part.
It became a criminal offense because of misguided puritans more than anything else.
No, the church does NOT favor prostitution and being with one is considered a sin, but the church does NOT make civil laws and never has.

prostition has everything to do wit religion. u dont understand it because your culture removed the social cues and stigma
cultures are not only differntbeliefs they are different state of being state of mind. different cultures create their own reality.

[sanjuro_ronin]

prostition has everything to do wit religion. u dont understand it because your culture removed the social cues and stigma
cultures are not only differntbeliefs they are different state of being state of mind. different cultures create their own reality.

I said prostitution LAWS.