Obama lowered your taxes, but most of you don't realize it

[David Jamieson]

This is how loud and pervasive the message of the ignorant right is right now.
Americans have received about 116 billion in tax cuts under Obama, but everyone is so worried about tea parties and oil spills, they're ignorant of the tax cuts they've gotten.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us/politics/19taxes.html?_r=2


HUNTERSVILLE, N.C. — What if a president cut Americans’ income taxes by $116 billion and nobody noticed?

It is not a rhetorical question. At Pig Pickin’ and Politickin’, a barbecue-fed rally organized here last week by a Republican women’s club, a half-dozen guests were asked by a reporter what had happened to their taxes since President Obama took office.

“Federal and state have both gone up,” said Bob Paratore, 59, from nearby Charlotte, echoing the comments of others.

After further prodding — including a reminder that a provision of the stimulus bill had cut taxes for 95 percent of working families by changing withholding rates — Mr. Paratore’s memory was jogged.

“You’re right, you’re right,” he said. “I’ll be honest with you: it was so subtle that personally, I didn’t notice it.”

Few people apparently did.

In a troubling sign for Democrats as they head into the midterm elections, their signature tax cut of the past two years, which decreased income taxes by up to $400 a year for individuals and $800 for married couples, has gone largely unnoticed.

In a New York Times/CBS News Poll last month, fewer than one in 10 respondents knew that the Obama administration had lowered taxes for most Americans. Half of those polled said they thought that their taxes had stayed the same, a third thought that their taxes had gone up, and about a tenth said they did not know. As Thom Tillis, a Republican state representative, put it as the dinner wound down here, “This was the tax cut that fell in the woods — nobody heard it.”

Actually, the tax cut was, by design, hard to notice. Faced with evidence that people were more likely to save than spend the tax rebate checks they received during the Bush administration, the Obama administration decided to take a different tack: it arranged for less tax money to be withheld from people’s paychecks.

They reasoned that people would be more likely to spend a small, recurring extra bit of money that they might not even notice, and that the quicker the money was spent, the faster it would cycle through the economy.

Economists are still measuring how stimulative the tax cut was. But the hard-to-notice part has succeeded wildly. In a recent interview, President Obama said that structuring the tax cuts so that a little more money showed up regularly in people’s paychecks “was the right thing to do economically, but politically it meant that nobody knew that they were getting a tax cut.”

“And in fact what ended up happening was six months into it, or nine months into it,” the president said, “people had thought we had raised their taxes instead of cutting their taxes.”

There are plenty of explanations as to why many taxpayers did not feel richer when the cuts kicked in, giving typical families an extra $65 a month. Some people were making less money to begin with, as businesses cut back. Others saw their take-home pay shrink as the amounts deducted for health insurance rose.

And taxpayers in more than 30 states saw their state taxes rise, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

That is what happened here in North Carolina. The Treasury Department estimated that the federal tax cut would put $1.7 billion back in the hands of North Carolina taxpayers this year. Last year, though, North Carolina, facing a large budget shortfall, raised a variety of state taxes by roughly a billion dollars.

“It was a wash,” said Mr. Tillis, the state representative.

The guests at the Pig Pickin’ rally here could rattle off the names of the House speaker and the Senate majority leader with ease, if with disdain, and were up on many of the political controversies of the day. They studied the campaign fliers at their tables, and pocketed the 1.5-ounce jars of strawberry preserves with special labels urging them to vote for Judge Bill Constangy for Superior Court (“Preserving Justice,” the labels read).

Many volunteered that they thought the Bush tax cuts should be extended for all taxpayers, even for the wealthy ones whom Mr. Obama would like to exclude. But few had heard that there had also been Obama tax cuts — which will also expire next year unless extended, but have generated far less public debate.

Bob Deaton, 73, who wore a “Fair Tax” baseball cap, was surprised to hear that there were tax cuts in the $787 billion stimulus bill, which was wildly unpopular with many at the rally even though roughly a third of it was in the form of tax cuts.

“Tax cuts?” he asked. “Where were the tax cuts?”

Ron Julian, 50, a Huntersville town commissioner, said he thought his taxes had gone up under Mr. Obama. And Mr. Paratore, a former Hearst executive, said he might have noticed the tax cuts if his paycheck had jumped more in the weeks before he retired last year: “I couldn’t even tell you what it was, to be honest with you.”

The Obama administration wants to extend the little-noticed tax cut next year. Jason Furman, the deputy director of the National Economic Council, said the administration still believes that changing the withholdings was a more effective form of stimulus than sending out rebate checks would have been.

“In retrospect, we think that judgment was right,” he said. “It’s harder to predict what’s good for politics. Ultimately, the best thing for politics is going to be helping the economy.”

But at least one prominent economist is questioning whether the method really was more effective. Joel B. Slemrod, a professor of economics at the University of Michigan, analyzed consumer surveys after the last rebate checks were sent out in 2008 by the Bush administration, and after this tax cut, called Making Work Pay, went into effect under the Obama administration.

After the 2008 rebates, he found that about a quarter of the households surveyed said they would use the money primarily to increase their spending. After the Obama tax cut took effect, he said, only 13 percent said they would use the money primarily to increase their spending. The Obama administration believes that people did spend the money, and cites analyses calling the cut one of the more effective forms of stimulus.

Mr. Slemrod said it was not unheard of for voters to miss tax cuts. Just a few years after a 1986 overhaul of the tax system made significant cuts to most people’s taxes, he said, a survey asked people what had happened to their taxes. “Most people didn’t answer that they went down,” he said.

Peter Baker contributed reporting from Washington.

so 1badbluebj, what have you got to bleat and stamp your feet about on this one? lol

[BJJ-Blue]

so 1badbluebj, what have you got to bleat and stamp your feet about on this one? lol

I have the fact that unless Obama and the Democrat Congress does something, all of us who pay income taxes are fixing to get a HUGE tax increase. The bottom bracket will go from 10% to 15%. That's a 50% income tax increase on the poorest taxpayers!

And thats not even counting the lower wage employees who are losing their healthcare or seeing their premiums skyrocket under the first wave of new Obamacare policies.

[David Jamieson]

I have the fact that unless Obama and the Democrat Congress does something, all of us who pay income taxes are fixing to get a HUGE tax increase. The bottom bracket will go from 10% to 15%. That's a 50% income tax increase on the poorest taxpayers!

And thats not even counting the lower wage employees who are losing their healthcare or seeing their premiums skyrocket under the first wave of new Obamacare policies.

why do you think you're facing an increase.

do you have a back office memo to that effect? Or are you just making up some red herring stuff?

fact is, you've gotten a 116 Billion dollar tax break SO FAR! lol

I'd like to see your information in rgeards to this new tax being imposed on you.

Hey, what do you think of what's going on in France right now?
You think your countrymen would ever have the guts to do what the French citizens are doing to take back their government?

Or are you guys floating in a news blackout about it too..so ya don't get's no ideas and all. lol

anyway, ongoing general strike in france, escalating daily. Very intense and for some reason not getting front page news.

[Reality_Check]

why do you think you're facing an increase.


He thinks that because the Bush Administration tax cuts were written with sunset clauses so that they could pass through reconciliation. So, while the tax cuts are set to expire, the fault lies with the Republicans who wrote the bills and with President Bush who signed them.

In addition, President Obama has stated that he wishes to retain the lower tax levels for those making under $250,000 per year. He wants to allow the tax rates for those making over $250,000 to return to their Clinton Administration levels.

[BJJ-Blue]

why do you think you're facing an increase.

do you have a back office memo to that effect? Or are you just making up some red herring stuff?

It's all over every news outlet in the country, heck maybe the world. It's common knowledge. If you ask again though, I'll show you a few links.


fact is, you've gotten a 116 Billion dollar tax break SO FAR! lol

And the measly amount has been more than offset by higher healthcare premiums, and some people's incomes have dropped, thus they are taking in less. And this from YOUR article.


I'd like to see your information in rgeards to this new tax being imposed on you.

Again, it's common knowledge that without Congress and the President signing in new legislation, ALL American's income taxes go up come January 1st. But I will post links if necessary.

FYI, RC's post below mine does address the fact that what I'm saying about income taxes is indeed true.


Hey, what do you think of what's going on in France right now?
You think your countrymen would ever have the guts to do what the French citizens are doing to take back their government?

NEWSFALSH: We've done it before.

And you liberals always bash people in the States who suggest that. You call them Teabaggers, crazy militia men, tinfoil hat wearers, etc. But when the French protest Gov't, now it's a good and noble thing. Be consistant.

As to the issue, they have ran out of money. Socialist countries ALWAYS do. So now cuts are having to be made, and the people are upset. It's actually a previes of our future, unless we stop moving towards European Socialism ourselves. And I believe enough of us see just that, and that's why I've been predicting a GOP landslide in November.


Or are you guys floating in a news blackout about it too..so ya don't get's no ideas and all. lol

Maybe you will one day get an idea of how to answer my question. ;)


anyway, ongoing general strike in france, escalating daily. Very intense and for some reason not getting front page news.

Maybe you are as ignorant of current events as you sound like. It's been FRONT PAGE news on CNN.com, Foxnews.com, and other news outlets.

[BJJ-Blue]

He thinks that because the Bush Administration tax cuts were written with sunset clauses so that they could pass through reconciliation. So, while the tax cuts are set to expire, the fault lies with the Republicans who wrote the bills and with President Bush who signed them.

Obama had two years with a rubber stamp Congress and he allowed this to happen.

Look, I was no fan of temporary cuts. And I'm still not. Liberal policies don't have an expiration date, but they demand our policies do. But if it expires, it's the Party in power's fault, as they chose to let it expire. I think they will address this in the 'lame duck' session of Congress after the election. The worse it gets for the Democrats, the better the chance of them extending the tax cuts.


In addition, President Obama has stated that he wishes to retain the lower tax levels for those making under $250,000 per year. He wants to allow the tax rates for those making over $250,000 to return to their Clinton Administration levels.

Yes, I know. Obama is dividing people by income bracket. Typical liberal class envy politics. And he campaigned on bringing Americans together, yet governs by dividing us.

[David Jamieson]

dude,... :rolleyes:

lol. France is a republic, it's capitalist, it's not a socialist state.

The people of France made that country as great as it is and now the little sh1t right winger Sarkozy wants to step in, pressure the people with corporate considerations and up the retirement age for them that THEY paid for.

how is that socialist?

as for organization, the french people have their poop in a group whereas teabaggers simply come across as mostly poorly educated hicks and hillbillies who can't spell, aren't organized and seem fairly ignorant.

most credible thinkers back away from that kind of gonzo political hackery.

the French know how to organize, run and maintain a general strike.

You and the teabaggers haven't got a clue as to how to do that.

huge difference.

[KC Elbows]

DJ, you simply don't understand US politics. It will all get repaired by replacing one group of people dependent on questionable election money with another group suckling at the same teat. Then, they'll grow the government even bigger, as both have done, without exception, for forty years.

[Drake]

People keep saying he'll raise taxes almost as much as they say he wanted to ban bullets (those companies made a MINT off of THAT lie!).

Show me where he raisED taxes, and stop speculating. The right has been doing that since he got into office.

Oh, and unemployment is finally dropping again.

[BJJ-Blue]

lol. France is a republic, it's capitalist, it's not a socialist state.

Dude, do some research. Look at their labor laws, their healthcare, etc and then come back and tell me they are not pretty much the typical European socialist country.

As to Sarkozy, he is cutting Gov't expenses because THEY ARE DEAD BROKE!

The U.K. yesterday just said they are cutting 500,000 Gov't jobs and more cuts are coming. Greece is in huge trouble too. And Germany is now saying they are going to likely have to cut their welfare expenses and tighten immigration laws there. Face it, Europe is a bastion of economic fail, and we should be learning from their mistakes, not copying them.

Source on UK job cuts:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11579979

[BJJ-Blue]

Oh, and unemployment is finally dropping again.

Only for last week. And that doesn't offset the previous week's job losses.

"Fewer people applied for unemployment benefits last week, but the drop wasn't enough to reverse a big increase the previous week."

Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/21/unemployment-claims-drop/?test=latestnews

And it's got a long way to go just to get back to where it was when Obama took office.

[David Jamieson]

Dude, do some research. Look at their labor laws, their healthcare, etc and then come back and tell me they are not pretty much the typical European socialist country.

As to Sarkozy, he is cutting Gov't expenses because THEY ARE DEAD BROKE!

The U.K. yesterday just said they are cutting 500,000 Gov't jobs and more cuts are coming. Greece is in huge trouble too. And Germany is now saying they are going to likely have to cut their welfare expenses and tighten immigration laws there. Face it, Europe is a bastion of economic fail, and we should be learning from their mistakes, not copying them.

Source on UK job cuts:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11579979

lol.

Man, I've been to France, I have friends from France, I've gotten more into France than a lot of people who live in downtown Paris. I'm not a huge expert, but I'm pretty sure I know a thing or two about France.

As for you? not so much. Why don't you do research instead of continually looking like an agendized shill for some small appendant body to the right wing politicos in america.

You come across as grossly uninformed too often and I'm sure you can rectify that.

In the meantime, Vive la France. They aren't broke. This whole thing is about the EEU strong arming member nations and trying to impose principles that don't fit with the social constructs of many of it's member nations.

there are a couple of outcomes in this economic warfare, the principal hope in the west is dissolution of the EEU itself because of the threat to NA and UK economic power.

NA and UK economic power is hinged on the failure of the EEU and the contractual deals with India and China. It's a balancing act that is at a tipping point.

the UK is making noise about bailing from the EEU. I that should happen, it will all fall down and actual war may be in the winds.

wait and see...

The USA sold empty packets to almost every country in the EEU and also to others.
This was the trigger. It is not a stretch to point at that action of Wall street defrauding the world that the USA is involved in an economic war with Europe in realtime.

don't lose sight of the forest for the trees man.

[BJJ-Blue]

As for you? not so much. Why don't you do research instead of continually looking like an agendized shill for some small appendant body to the right wing politicos in america.

I already did plenty of research. And I stand by my assertion that France is a typical European Socialist country, although they do appear to be moving away from that recently.

Lionel Jospin - Prime Minister of France 1997-2002 Party: Socialist
Martine Aubry - Minister of Labor 1991-1993 Party: French Socialist
François Mitterrand - President on the French Republic 1981-1995 Party: Socialist
Laurent Fabius - Prime Minister of France 1984-1986 Party: Socialist
Henri Emmanuelli - President of the National Assembly 1992-1993 Party: Socialist

Governing Party of the National Assembly 1981-1986, 1988-1993: Socialist Party

Looks like a European Socialist country to me.


You come across as grossly uninformed too often and I'm sure you can rectify that.

Looks like I just did.


In the meantime, Vive la France. They aren't broke.

LMAO! And the grass isn't green, nor the sky blue.

[David Jamieson]

Ok, so you don't understand what socialism is. You think it's a party apparently.

lol. That's awesome, you get a lolly.

Dude, Lemme tell you one more time and I will type slowly for you:

F R A N C E is a Unitary semi-presidential republic (meaning it has a prime minister as well as a president)

You and me both live in countries with socialist parties. Big deal. the framework of socialist in western liberal democracies ain't from Karl Marx. lol

[BJJ-Blue]

Ok, so you don't understand what socialism is. You think it's a party apparently.

lol. That's awesome, you get a lolly.

It's apparent you don't understand it at all. Are you saying the people I mentioned are not 'real' socialists, but just happen to be members of the Socialist Part? Is that what you saying? :confused:


F R A N C E is a Unitary semi-presidential republic (meaning it has a prime minister as well as a president)

True. And when said Prime Ministers and Presidens are socialists, that means they are a socialist country. Can you truly not grasp this?


You and me both live in countries with socialist parties. Big deal. the framework of socialist in western liberal democracies ain't from Karl Marx. lol

Yes, but we have ONE elected socialist at this time in our Federal Gov't, Bernie Sanders. ONE. And he is not a President, or speaker of the House, or Senate Majority Leader. France has had many, many socialists elected.

Big deal? Tell that to the 500,000 Britons who lost their Gov't jobs. Tell that to the 500,000 Cubans who are losing their Gov't jobs. Tell that to the rioters in France. Tell that to the Greeks. It is a big deal when they destroy economies.

[David Jamieson]

It's apparent you don't understand it at all. Are you saying the people I mentioned are not 'real' socialists, but just happen to be members of the Socialist Part? Is that what you saying? :confused:



True. And when said Prime Ministers and Presidens are socialists, that means they are a socialist country. Can you truly not grasp this?



Yes, but we have ONE elected socialist at this time in our Federal Gov't, Bernie Sanders. ONE. And he is not a President, or speaker of the House, or Senate Majority Leader. France has had many, many socialists elected.

Big deal? Tell that to the 500,000 Britons who lost their Gov't jobs. Tell that to the 500,000 Cubans who are losing their Gov't jobs. Tell that to the rioters in France. Tell that to the Greeks. It is a big deal when they destroy economies.

do you use a public library? transit system? roads? street lights? garbage pick up? etc etc. If so, you are a practicing socialist!

I mean, by your definition. lol

there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with employing socialist concepts in a modern functional society. IN fact, I woudl venture to say they make living in modern society better than the dog eat dog world you seem to envision as some sort of capitalist paradise.

:rolleyes:

btw, it was wall street and your precious capitalism that CAUSED the collapse of teh world economy, so don't blame it on the people who ahve payed their taxes for their whole lives in order to expect a standard of living that is suitable in modern society for a retyired person.

[BJJ-Blue]

do you use a public library? transit system? roads? street lights? garbage pick up? etc etc. If so, you are a practicing socialist!

Not at all. None of those have anything to do with "spreading the wealth around".

And fyi, many of those are pay as you go anyway. I pay for my garbage pick up. We all have used toll roads. If we drive on the roads, ALL of the drivers are paying for them via gasoline taxes.


there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with employing socialist concepts in a modern functional society.

There sure is when the Gov't doesn't have the friggin money to pay for them!

[BJJ-Blue]

btw, it was wall street and your precious capitalism that CAUSED the collapse of teh world economy, ...

Yes! Yes! You finally said it!

Now that you've made that assertion, please explain how that happened. I've been asking liberals FOR YEARS to explain how GW Bush's economic policies caused the mess we are in here in the US, and not one liberal has even tried to answer. Now you're on record blaming capitalism for ALL OF IT WORLDWIDE, so now I'm expecting you to back this up by explaining how it happened.

Or will you duck this one too? :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

why do you think it's bush?
he was working within the framework of deregulation on wall street initiated by the great satan you worship in the form of ronald reagan. lol

Bush left Obama holding the bag.
He robbed your coffers and let the wall street fatties sell bags of emptiness to the world in the market using forumlas that were designed to that end.

the story has already been written for you. No matter how hard you uput your fingers in your ears and stamp your feet about Obama, we all know who's fault it is. And it ain't Obama.

so duck, you gonna quack you quack? :rolleyes:

[Lucas]

I think dark semi sweet chocolate is way better than milk chocolate. It may not be as smooth or as creamy, but I find it much more satisfying over all.

[Drake]

I think dark semi sweet chocolate is way better than milk chocolate. It may not be as smooth or as creamy, but I find it much more satisfying over all.

You racist.

[David Jamieson]

You racist.

That's judgmental.

[BJJ-Blue]

So can't back up your assertion, you just pull out the "Blame Bush" card like all the other mindless liberals.

Guess I was wrong to give you more credit than that. My bad.

[David Jamieson]

So can't back up your assertion, you just pull out the "Blame Bush" card like all the other mindless liberals.

Guess I was wrong to give you more credit than that. My bad.

lol @ you. You don't see further than 1 week back and you can't find a way to understand the ramifications of someone else's actions effecting the abilities of someone else's.

Here again, you are ignorant and in your ignorance you resort to your retarded mantra of "you're a liberal and so you are wrong"

ridiculous is what you are. :p

[solo1]

As Ears Obama said himself he has done so much for Americans we are just too stupid to realize it. I guess we are all too stupid to realize that Harry Reid alone saved the world from a global meltdown. The height of sanctimony and arrogance from two of the most worthless bags of human detritus around.

[BJJ-Blue]

lol @ you. You don't see further than 1 week back and you can't find a way to understand the ramifications of someone else's actions effecting the abilities of someone else's.

I'm the one who has backed up my assertions that the subprime mess started it all, and that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd (through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) enabled that. I've posted that one here, more than once, and explained it clearly, rationally, and with sources. Yet when I ask you to explain your assertions, you just call names and say it's all Bush's fault.

Typical liberal.

[BJJ-Blue]

As Ears Obama said himself he has done so much for Americans we are just too stupid to realize it. I guess we are all too stupid to realize that Harry Reid alone saved the world from a global meltdown. The height of sanctimony and arrogance from two of the most worthless bags of human detritus around.

Oh, I know. Those two idiots have done nothing for the last two years but parrot "It's all Bush's fault" over and over and over. And now they have reduced themselves to calling the voters stupid.

I'm guessing this is setting up a good excuse when Reid loses. I can just see it now, 'Well, Reid lost, but we had said that the voters were stupid, so it's not a big deal'.

[David Jamieson]

I'm the one who has backed up my assertions that the subprime mess started it all, and that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd (through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) enabled that. I've posted that one here, more than once, and explained it clearly, rationally, and with sources. Yet when I ask you to explain your assertions, you just call names and say it's all Bush's fault.

Typical liberal.

the sub prime fiasco was allowed by, legislated by and was TOTALLY from the former Bush administration.

Typical idiot. :rolleyes:

[BJJ-Blue]

the sub prime fiasco was allowed by, legislated by and was TOTALLY from the former Bush administration.

Please explain.

What relevant legislation did GW Bush sign into law?

How did said legislation affect the economy?

[David Jamieson]

Please explain.

What relevant legislation did GW Bush sign into law?

How did said legislation affect the economy?

you are a monumentally stupid individual.
please stop posting until you make it through grade school.

thanks. :p

here, let google help you: http://www.google.ca/search?q=why+george+w+bush+is+an+idiot&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a