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View Full Version : Okay hot shots, name the techniques that are banned



Boulder Student
05-03-2001, 10:06 PM
Here's a link to the IFC's rules. These are the rules closest to the harmonized rules agreed to by the New Jersey Athletic Commission, UFC, Pride, and IFC last month. If I can find a published copy of the harmonized rules, I'll post them.

http://www.ifc-usa.com/rules/rules.html

Please explain why these rules discriminated against a traditionalist and name the technique you would use to end a fight that the IFC prohibits. It must be something that causes the opponent to tap out or results in an immediate KO/TKO. You should be trying to avoid killing your opponent. Remember, it is a sport...Tao te Ching Chapter 68.

No mouth boxing either. Give a hard example of a specific applicable technique and how you would apply it.

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

[This message was edited by Boulder Student on 05-04-01 at 01:17 PM.]

Budokan
05-03-2001, 10:15 PM
LOL! Troll bait.

K. Mark Hoover

Boulder Student
05-03-2001, 10:18 PM
Showing your usual depth I see.

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

Mr. Nemo
05-03-2001, 10:22 PM
That was lame, Boulder Student. And who are all these "hotshots" you're calling out? Last I checked, the consensus on this board was that excuses for kung fu based on banned techniques were mostly copouts.

Budokan
05-03-2001, 10:33 PM
That was the consensus. Mine too. Which is why his post is troll bait.

Man, it is so easy to yank some peoples' chains...and they don't even know it's happening! :D

But we still wuv you, Boulder Student! ;)

K. Mark Hoover

Boulder Student
05-03-2001, 10:33 PM
Mr. Nemo,

I was looking for someone to actually say something intelligent. My suspicion was that folks like Budokan would be incapable of posting anything intelligent. I was hoping the Sam Wileys of the board would give the juveniles a clue.

I'll start. Diagonal flying from my tai chi form as I broke from a clinch is a foul. I wouldn't be able to strike SI17(throat strikes are prohibited). If I pulled it off properly, my opponent would be unconscious. This is an example of a prohibited traditional technique that could win a MMA event.

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

Brett Again
05-03-2001, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Fouls include; Biting; Eye gouging; Clawing; Groin techniques; Striking to the throat; Fish hooking of the mouth; Striking spine; Point of Elbow strikes; Head butts; Kicks to front of Knee; Kicks to Head of Downed fighter; Hair pulling; [/quote]

Biting is found on the street (but not in any of my kung fu.)

Eye gouging is stressed in many of my techniques forms. But, I do understand why it is not allowed, and really, any BJJ'er could certainly gouge my eyes just as readily as I could gouge theirs.

I study Eagle Claw... I might be at a disadvantage if "Clawing" is a foul. I'm not sure what this means.

Elbow strikes... if a grappler gets in close, and your not allowed to use your elbows.... well, that's a big plus for the grappler, isn't it
No Head Butts? Why the f**k not?

No hair pulling? If any one pulls my hair they will get such a pinch!!!

"This is harder than it looks... and it looks impossible!"
-Chuckie Finster

Budokan
05-03-2001, 10:37 PM
What? Me not intellgent? But me really am! Me just not stupid enough to bite at pretty troll bait being buzzed past me.

Keep throwing the lure, buddy. I'll keep watching it go by. :D

K. Mark Hoover

Boulder Student
05-03-2001, 10:38 PM
That's more in line with what I was looking for. Any specific techniques that you like to throw that would end the fight, but you couldn't use?

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

Badger
05-03-2001, 10:39 PM
Why are there so many MMA/BJJ vs.Kung Fu topics?


My style is better than your style!
My styles better than yours!
My styles better!-My styles better!
My styles better than yours!


Badger

Budokan
05-03-2001, 10:41 PM
I think it speaks to the intelligences on both sides who think this question will make the universe continue to turn on its axis.

When in reality it's all a big YAWN.

K. Mark Hoover

Badger
05-03-2001, 10:43 PM
My styles better cuz we eat Kennel-ration.......

Boulder Student
05-03-2001, 10:49 PM
learn to read. I never said anything about your intelligence. I simply said you would be incapable of posting anything intelligent. I only know your posts, and your posts are typically shallow and two dimensional.

Sorry, I didn't explain it to you in language you could understand before. I'll try to be clearer in the future.

:D

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

Budokan
05-03-2001, 10:55 PM
Be sure to check out my other shallow and two-dimensional post in the 'dojo traditions' thread. ;)

K. Mark Hoover

atsai
05-03-2001, 11:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Fouls include;...; Groin techniques;...[/quote]

Do they mean groin techniques executed on your opponent? Or on yourself?

Sorry, just have to ask... :D

Art T<HR Width="95%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)

<form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE="website coming soon!" onClick="parent.location='http://people.we.mediaone.net/arttsai/home.html'"> <INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE="e-mail" onClick="parent.location='mailto:arttsai@mediaone.net?subje ct=From KFO forum...'"></FORM>

Watchman
05-03-2001, 11:02 PM
...and does the restriction apply to the ring-card girls? :confused:

Daniel Madar
05-03-2001, 11:07 PM
Oh, wait, this is competition!

So, yes, there is a technique that I, and I presume many other bagua stylists train in that is specifically excluded. And it's one of my favorites!

:P

Boulder Student
05-03-2001, 11:09 PM
Are you talking about my request for no mouth boxing? Well, the way I see it mouth boxing with a ring girl would be a technique best demonstrated after the fight. I don't think the rules prohibit it if it's consensual.

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

Watchman
05-03-2001, 11:12 PM
It was both in reference to that, and to Art T's concern over groin techniques. :eek: One must weigh all his options. :D

Boulder Student
05-03-2001, 11:13 PM
How does Bagua's elbow to the spine work? Are you standing? Is your opponent on the ground or standing? What is the set up? Could you apply it without killing or maiming you opponent?

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

old jong
05-04-2001, 01:45 AM
Fighters who relies more on precision than boxing type power are penalised by having to wear paddings on their hands.They can't use their nuckles on specific targets.

C'est la vie!

chokeyouout
05-04-2001, 12:33 PM
Logic is irrelevant in kung fu.

<img SRC=http://www.bjj.org/figures/choke-anim.gif>

old jong
05-04-2001, 12:37 PM
There must be more logical places elsewere? :rolleyes:...UH?...

C'est la vie!

OdderMensch
05-04-2001, 10:55 PM
that would be banned

1. cup jarn, a third form point of elbow attack to the soft stucture of the face.

2. Pi jarn : a 2nd form point of elbow attack

3. Fak sau : while not banned is normaly targeted to the neck same for

4. "pal choi"

5. bil sao, and

6. lan sau

7. whle i know of no name my best takedown counter for a shoot low invovs an elbow to the back of neck/spine so thats out

8. ti gerk targeted to groin

9. ti sut same

I notice that limb destuction/small joint manipulation is not specificly prohibited.
so thats nice

10. and this is the bigggie Ti kuen!

I say ti kuen is the biggie because a sport bout dissalows early stikes, and finishing your opponent. If it was a real "fight" then from the moment I knew a fight was unavoidable (presumably at least a month in advance) WC says I should close and finish the fight. I think the best time would be durring that pre fight meeting at least a week in advance. As soon as i see the guy <BAM!> ti kuen then start chainpunching and elbows, he should never know what hit him.

Budokan
05-05-2001, 04:20 AM
BWAHAHAHAHA! This is the perfect place for this troll thread. :D

Look, there goes another tumbleweed...!

K. Mark Hoover

Tigerstyle
05-05-2001, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I knew a fight was unavoidable (presumably at least a month in advance) WC says I should close and finish the fight. I think the best time would be durring that pre fight meeting at least a week in advance. As soon as i see the guy ti kuen then start chainpunching and elbows, he should never know what hit him.[/quote]LOL! Great strategy!

I think two things that would inhibit a KF fighter (as well as most strikers) is point-of-the-elbow strikes and kicking the head of a downed opponent. I totally understand that they are prohibited for safety reasons, but it still does hamper a striker. Pedro Rizzo could have beat Randy Coture in round 2 last Friday if the head kicks rule wasn't there (Then again, Coture would have won in Round 1 if the time limit was any longer than 5 minutes ;) ). Rizzo fought his instinct to kick the head when Coture dropped to his knees, which caused a bit of hesitation.

Not as "all-important", but still possibly effective: Small-joint manipulation. These weren't mentioned in the rules you posted, but many MMA/NHB events ban them. These aren't fight enders, but they definitely allow a way to escape certain holds/locks as well as possibly set up other moves (as a distraction, for example).

chokeyouout,
What happened to make you so bitter sounding (or is it bitter reading since it is text :) )? When you first started posting here, I was thinking, "Cool, a respectful BJJ guy willing to share his knowledge." I come back today after a week of not visiting here, and I read these anti-kung fu posts from you that sound like they're typed straight from the fingers of rolls/gaiden/verder or jjj (no offense, jjj. You're one of my favorites here, but you know how you are :p ).

Are you just being sarcastic, or has the "anti-NHB/BJJ/grappling in retaliation to the anti-kung fu" attitude truly gotten to you? Please tell me I'm worrying over nothing.

JWTAYLOR
05-06-2001, 03:46 PM
"Kicks to the head of a downed fighter", "striking with the point of the elbow", "Groin Techniques", "Kicks to the front of the knee", "Striking to the throat".

So, if I wanted to open with a jab to the throat, stepping through with my back leg to knee to the groin or kick to the knee, and then throw the elbow to the temple for a knockdown (or a throw if you use TTC brush knee twist). Then proceed to stomp my opponent in the head until he was unconcious, then EVERY SINGLE MOVEMENT in that entire series (each found in both American Kenpo and Chang style Tai Chi) would be illegal. I know Baguazhang uses those moves allot too.

BTW, I am totally for MMA competitions such as the UFC and Pride, and believe that any quality martial art should be able to adapt to the rules listed above. But, the arts must be adapted for the ring, which does, in and of itself, put the individual using that art at at slight disadvantage. Training for that environment would remove such a disadvantage.

JW

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

8stepsifu
05-06-2001, 04:13 PM
Luckilly, I've still got more, but If I fight the way I train I will be doing groin shots.


What about Iron Head kung fu training? Thats out. Iron Palm...still ok, but you can't slap their neck, so it's harder to knock them out.

They can shoot and one of the most potent deterents...the elbow is outlawed along with kicking to the front knee.

Thats BS. I normally never complain about this stuff, but the "no rules" competition is just as crippling as sport tkd. Whats next? No striking on the head?

don't worry be happy

JWTAYLOR
05-06-2001, 05:33 PM
Oh, what about the famous "karate chop". When done correctly, this is a VERY effective knockdown/knockout technique.

Probabbly the most recognized Karate technique there is. The target is the carotid(sp?) and interior jugular.

Illegal.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

chokeyouout
05-06-2001, 10:12 PM
It was considered troll bait by myself.Unfortunately, it hurt the moderators feelings.

<img SRC=http://www.bjj.org/figures/choke-anim.gif>

JWTAYLOR
05-09-2001, 03:54 PM
BTW, this is one of the better discussions on the ENITRE board. Now that the main page sucks a$$.
JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV