Juan Williams fired for being honest [Archive]

BJJ-Blue

10-22-2010, 07:03 AM

"NPR's president and CEO defended Thursday the network's decision to terminate the contract of Juan Williams after the news analyst made remarks elsewhere that she said veered from analysis into opinion, adding that it was not the first time.

Williams responded with a comment posted on FoxNews.com that called his dismissal "a chilling assault on free speech" and described the NPR leadership as "self-righteous ideological, left-wing. ... They loathe the fact that I appear on Fox News."

Williams' contract was ended Wednesday, two days after he said on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor" that he gets nervous when he sees people with Muslim garb on planes.

Bill O'Reilly, the Fox News personality, was seeking comment from Williams on O'Reilly's own controversial remarks made on the "The View" about Muslims.

"Look, Bill, I'm not a bigot," Williams said. "You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

He continued, "Now, I remember also that, when the Times Square bomber was at court, I think this was just last week, he said the war with Muslims -- America's war -- is just beginning. The first drop of blood. I don't think there's any way to get away from these facts.

"But I think there are people who want to somehow remind us all -- as President Bush did after 9/11 -- it's not a war against Islam."

Williams told O'Reilly, "You've got to be careful" to point out that there are good Muslims. He noted that Americans don't blame Christians for the actions of Timothy McVeigh in the Oklahoma City bombing.

Complete article:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/10/21/npr.analyst.fired/index.html?hpt=T2

Mr Williams replied:

"Yesterday NPR fired me for telling the truth. The truth is that I worry when I am getting on an airplane and see people dressed in garb that identifies them first and foremost as Muslims.

This is not a bigoted statement. It is a statement of my feelings, my fears after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 by radical Muslims. In a debate with Bill O’Reilly I revealed my fears to set up the case for not making rash judgments about people of any faith. I pointed out that the Atlanta Olympic bomber -- as well as Timothy McVeigh and the people who protest against gay rights at military funerals -- are Christians but we journalists don’t identify them by their religion.

And I made it clear that all Americans have to be careful not to let fears lead to the violation of anyone’s constitutional rights, be it to build a mosque, carry the Koran or drive a New York cab without the fear of having your throat slashed. Bill and I argued after I said he has to take care in the way he talks about the 9/11 attacks so as not to provoke bigotry."

Complete article:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/21/juan-williams-npr-fired-truth-muslim-garb-airplane-oreilly-ellen-weiss-bush/

So it looks like NPR, which is taxpayer funded, is against free speech.

Drake

10-22-2010, 07:14 AM

That was a bit of an overreaction, if you ask me. People have the right to express concerns which are, like it or not, common across the country.

And the fact is, who is being oversensitive here? If people from the middle east hadn't conducted 9-11 (NO THREADJACK, HW108!!), then maybe, just maybe, people wouldn't be nervous when they see middle easterners on planes.

To take the racist card out of this, wouldn't it make you a bit nervous to see a guy in a Russian outfit walking around the Pentagon?

These things aren't based in fantasy.

Xiao3 Meng4

10-22-2010, 07:17 AM

Juan got fired from NPR and immediately got hired on by Fox for $2 Million a year.

It makes me wonder whether or not it was a pre-planned thing.

Drake

10-22-2010, 07:18 AM

Juan got fired from NPR and immediately got hired on by Fox for $2 Million a year.

It makes me wonder whether or not it was a pre-planned thing.

Strategic move, maybe? I'm not going to fault anyone for taking $2 mil.

BJJ-Blue

10-22-2010, 07:38 AM

Reality_Check

10-22-2010, 08:32 AM

And News Corp gave $1.25 million to the Republican Governors Association, and $1 million to the Chamber of Commerce, which is actively trying to elect Republicans, while perhaps using foreign money to do so.

Did you complain when Helen Thomas was fired? Or when Octavia Nasr was fired from CNN? Or when Rick Sanchez was fired by CNN? Or when MSNBC fired Phil Donahue? Or when MSNBC fired Ashleigh Banfield?

No, you didn't. Your outrage certainly seems to be selective. You actually celebrated the firing of Helen Thomas. Her comments could be taken as anti-Jew/anti-Israel. His comments could be taken as anti-Muslim. Why is one example of bigotry acceptable but not the other?

Do I think he should have been fired? No. Do I think the others should have been fired? No.

Regarding Soros, how about some context?

KROFT: (Voiceover) To understand the complexities and contradictions in his personality, you have to go back to the very beginning: to Budapest, where George Soros was born 68 years ago to parents who were wealthy, well-educated and Jewish.

When the Nazis occupied Budapest in 1944, George Soros' father was a successful lawyer. He lived on an island in the Danube and liked to commute to work in a rowboat. But knowing there were problems ahead for the Jews, he decided to split his family up. He bought them forged papers and he bribed a government official to take 14-year-old George Soros in and swear that he was his Christian godson. But survival carried a heavy price tag. While hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were being shipped off to the death camps, George Soros accompanied his phony godfather on his appointed rounds, confiscating property from the Jews.

(Vintage footage of Jews walking in line; man dragging little boy in line)

KROFT: (Voiceover) These are pictures from 1944 of what happened to George Soros' friends and neighbors.

(Vintage footage of women and men with bags over their shoulders walking; crowd by a train)

KROFT: (Voiceover) You're a Hungarian Jew...

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.

KROFT: (Voiceover) ...who escaped the Holocaust...

(Vintage footage of women walking by train)

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.

(Vintage footage of people getting on train)

KROFT: (Voiceover) ... by -- by posing as a Christian.

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Right.

(Vintage footage of women helping each other get on train; train door closing with people in boxcar)

KROFT: (Voiceover) And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.

Mr. SOROS: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that's when my character was made.

KROFT: In what way?

Mr. SOROS: That one should think ahead. One should understand and -- and anticipate events and when -- when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a -- a very personal experience of evil.

KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that's -- that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not -- not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't -- you don't see the connection. But it was -- it created no -- no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

KROFT: For example that, 'I'm Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.' None of that?

Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c -- I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was -- well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets -- that if I weren't there -- of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would -- would -- would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the -- whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the -- I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.

The Jewish Council asked the little kids to hand out the deportation notices. I was told to go to the Jewish Council. And there I was given these small slips of paper...It said report to the rabbi seminary at 9 a.m....And I was given this list of names. I took this piece of paper to my father. He instantly recognized it. This was a list of Hungarian Jewish lawyers. He said, "You deliver the slips of paper and tell the people that if they report they will be deported."

MasterKiller

10-22-2010, 08:33 AM

Speaking of timing, George Soros gave $1.8 million to NPR just days before Mr Williams was fired.

But again, notice it's the far left wing engaging in censorship. That's not surprising though, since censorship is what the Nazis engaged in and Soros was a Nazi collaborator.

Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

BJJ-Blue

10-22-2010, 09:34 AM

And News Corp gave $1.25 million to the Republican Governors Association, and $1 million to the Chamber of Commerce, which is actively trying to elect Republicans, while perhaps using foreign money to do so.

Nice strawman attempt. First off, none of those recipients are firing journalists. Second, we know no foriegn money is being used. Obama and Gibbs, etc were challenged to back that assertion up and they did not.

Did you complain when Helen Thomas was fired? Or when Octavia Nasr was fired from CNN? Or when Rick Sanchez was fired by CNN? Or when MSNBC fired Phil Donahue? Or when MSNBC fired Ashleigh Banfield?

Helen Thomas was not fired, she resigned.
Phil Donahue was not fired, his show was cancelled due to low ratings.
Sanchez deserved his firing, what he said was way different than what Mr Williams said. And FYI, Sanchez ran over a man while driving drunk and left him die. So the fact he was employed in the first place was ridiculous.
I'm not familiar with with the other 2 you mentioned, so I can't comment on them.

No, you didn't. Your outrage certainly seems to be selective. You actually celebrated the firing of Helen Thomas. Her comments could be taken as anti-Jew/anti-Israel. His comments could be taken as anti-Muslim. Why is one example of bigotry acceptable but not the other?

It is selective, and I explained why above.

Her comments were anti-Semitic. Mr Williams were not racist, etc.

Regarding Soros, how about some context?

Not sure what you mean here. Do you a need a link showing Soros gave the money days before Mr Williams was fired?

BJJ-Blue

10-22-2010, 09:40 AM

Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

This has been refuted.

"PALIN'S BOOK-BANNING EFFORTS.... There's been a list making the rounds lately, showing books that Sarah Palin allegedly tried to ban from Wasilla's public library during her mayoral tenure. The list isn't true, and in some instances, doesn't even make sense (some the books hadn't even been published in 1996, when the incident is alleged to have occurred)."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/09/politics/animal/main4430259.shtml

Further sources:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp

David Jamieson

10-22-2010, 10:01 AM

Juan got fired from NPR and immediately got hired on by Fox for $2 Million a year.

It makes me wonder whether or not it was a pre-planned thing.

You get the cigar good sir.

BJJ-Blue

10-22-2010, 11:03 AM

You get the cigar good sir.

LMAO at you two. Maybe I need to borrow that tinfoil hat pic from MasterKiller for you guys.

FYI, Mr Williams was already a contributor for FoxNews, and had been for some time. After his firing from NPR, FoxNews expanded his role and his new salary reflects that.

David Jamieson

10-22-2010, 11:39 AM

LMAO at you two. Maybe I need to borrow that tinfoil hat pic from MasterKiller for you guys.

FYI, Mr Williams was already a contributor for FoxNews, and had been for some time. After his firing from NPR, FoxNews expanded his role and his new salary reflects that.

so what is it you're complaining about?
You don't listen to NPR anyway do you?

Let people complain, but if williams brought agendas to the NPR against the station policy, then he broke his contract and for 2 million, maybe he did it on purpose and maybe his editorial viewpoints on fox were in breech of his contract with NPR if he took money for those sessions he was on fox?

seems like you are hoping for a molehill to be a mountain really. lol

BJJ-Blue

10-22-2010, 12:55 PM

so what is it you're complaining about?

Censorship and political correctness. It should be obvious. And it's even worse when a taxpayer funded program engages in censorship.

David Jamieson

10-22-2010, 02:29 PM

Censorship and political correctness. It should be obvious. And it's even worse when a taxpayer funded program engages in censorship.

You are a willfully ignorant person aren;t you?
:p

BJJ-Blue

10-25-2010, 07:52 AM

You are a willfully ignorant person aren;t you?
:p

What did I say that was incorrect?

If you are going to call me ignorant, at least make sure and point out where I was wrong.

David Jamieson

10-25-2010, 07:55 AM

What did I say that was incorrect?

If you are going to call me ignorant, at least make sure and point out where I was wrong.

It's not about where you are wrong, it's about what you don't seem to understand or know. lol :p

If you were wrong, I would use erroneous, egregious, in err, and so on.

But as you don't seem to or want to understand at all, the word is "ignorant". :)

BJJ-Blue

10-25-2010, 07:57 AM

Again, what am I ignorant of?

Don't just call me names and label me, explain what you say I'm ignorant of.

Reality_Check

10-25-2010, 09:05 AM

Again, what am I ignorant of?

Don't just call me names and label me, explain what you say I'm ignorant of.

Grammar? j/k :D

David Jamieson

10-25-2010, 10:02 AM

Again, what am I ignorant of?

Don't just call me names and label me, explain what you say I'm ignorant of.

Dude. lol. I refuse to teach monkeys calculus.
You are ignorant of how to communicate with others, how persuasion is different than shouting out an opinion, how your point of view is not the only one and how politics are not the heart of a society but rather it's people are.

Daily, with almost every post, you express your ignorance of these things, over and over again.

So, for me to point it out doesn't relieve you of your ignorance, if anything it makes you defensive and compounds your ignorance further as you criticize a lot but cannot take it yourself.

therefore, you are weak minded and your view points are regarded as ignorant.
I imagine you will struggle with understanding that as well and will come back with some non-contextual question whereby you will accuse any who disagree with you as left wingers, liberals, etc etc. :rolleyes:

solo1

10-25-2010, 10:21 AM

All i want to see is NPR defunded and let them compete in the real world. They are smug SOBs and deserve to be unemployed. Once funding has been pulled I give them a week.

BJJ-Blue

10-25-2010, 10:43 AM

BJJ-Blue

10-25-2010, 10:45 AM

...whereby you will accuse any who disagree with you as left wingers, liberals, etc etc. :rolleyes:

No, I say that to people that make assertions, cast blame, etc and then refuse to explain how they reached their conclusions. They just spout out how smart they are over and over, and how dumb anyone else is who disagrees with them. You know, people like you.

David Jamieson

10-25-2010, 11:07 AM

No, I say that to people that make assertions, cast blame, etc and then refuse to explain how they reached their conclusions. They just spout out how smart they are over and over, and how dumb anyone else is who disagrees with them. You know, people like you.

thanks for helping me prove my point. :p

BJJ-Blue

10-25-2010, 11:10 AM

thanks for helping me prove my point. :p

What point?

That you parrot Obama and cant explain in YOUR OWN WORDS how the mess was caused?

David Jamieson

10-25-2010, 11:42 AM

What point?

That you parrot Obama and cant explain in YOUR OWN WORDS how the mess was caused?

again, you prove my point regarding your ignorance for me.

keep chirping little bird. It's not getting you anywhere, I still think your political views are moronic at best and woefully misguided at best.

KC Elbows

10-25-2010, 12:01 PM

The job of a newscaster is not to share their opinion, but to present the news. No freedom of speech issue, if you go outside the bounds of your job, you assume your own risks. Since he opted to leave a job where he was not hired to share his opinion, and moving to a job where his opinion is everything, he always had the option of doing so, so no freedom of speech issue.

NPR said it already had issues with this before this incident, any network can release someone who they don't feel is fulfilling their job.

Considering a good chunk of the best educational kids shows and documentaries in the U.S. are done by publicly funded television and radio, and the networks produce a lot of dreck, especially in regards to news and documentaries, free trade superiority seems to be vastly overstated in this realm, and medicine, and education, and first world governance.

Faruq

10-25-2010, 12:53 PM

"NPR's president and CEO defended Thursday the network's decision to terminate the contract of Juan Williams after the news analyst made remarks elsewhere that she said veered from analysis into opinion, adding that it was not the first time....

Complete article:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/21/juan-williams-npr-fired-truth-muslim-garb-airplane-oreilly-ellen-weiss-bush/

So it looks like NPR, which is taxpayer funded, is against free speech.

Yeah, people have gone so way overboard with being PC today that almost anything you do can get you fired. If that's the way the guy feels, at least he was honest. I mean why fire him? Why fire Dawg, or Don Imus. If their comments make them racists, so be it. But don't take their livelyhood away over it. If when his show comes on some people say "that guy's a racist, I'm not going to watch/listen to his show", that comes with voicing your opinion. But there are still a bunch of people who will still watch. This hyper-PC censorship is just making more of the disenfranchised Whites cry "reverse-racism!" So let's be realistic. These guys are human beings, not perfect or noble saints. They're gonna have their predjudices. As long as they don't call on people to take action against people because of their race or religion, is it really such a big deal?

KC Elbows

10-25-2010, 01:04 PM

Yeah, people have gone so way overboard with being PC today that almost anything you do can get you fired. If that's the way the guy feels, at least he was honest. I mean why fire him? Why fire Dawg, or Don Imus. If their comments make them racists, so be it. But don't take their livelyhood away over it. If when his show comes on some people say "that guy's a racist, I'm not going to watch/listen to his show", that comes with voicing your opinion. But there are still a bunch of people who will still watch. This hyper-PC censorship is just making more of the disenfranchised Whites cry "reverse-racism!" So let's be realistic. These guys are human beings, not perfect or noble saints. They're gonna have their predjudices. As long as they don't call on people to take action against people because of their race or religion, is it really such a big deal?

It's not about political correctness, the reality has ALWAYS been that what you say reflects on you.

Advertizers don't want that stuff, and don't want to be associated with whiney racists complaining because it's not socially acceptable for white people to use the n word and such, and NPR does not want Fox style of news, meaning little news, lots of opinion.

Freedom of speech does not and was never meant to provide any protection from society judging a person for things they say, only that they have the right to take that risk.

David Jamieson

10-25-2010, 02:02 PM

Yeah, people have gone so way overboard with being PC today that almost anything you do can get you fired. If that's the way the guy feels, at least he was honest. I mean why fire him? Why fire Dawg, or Don Imus. If their comments make them racists, so be it. But don't take their livelyhood away over it. If when his show comes on some people say "that guy's a racist, I'm not going to watch/listen to his show", that comes with voicing your opinion. But there are still a bunch of people who will still watch. This hyper-PC censorship is just making more of the disenfranchised Whites cry "reverse-racism!" So let's be realistic. These guys are human beings, not perfect or noble saints. They're gonna have their predjudices. As long as they don't call on people to take action against people because of their race or religion, is it really such a big deal?

NOt giving racists voice in nationwide media outlets isn't about being PC, it's about having a society and civilization that is somewhat educated and not a big buckets of retards running around eliminating each other.

I don't want to listen to racist bs at all. I don't care if someones got a right to say it, people have a right to say they like kiddy porn too, I think they are scum as well and I don't want to tune into my tv which i pay a respectab;e amount for cable services to find channel after channel of racist ideological morons spouting their crap.

which is what a lot of american channels are. I tube them out.

I've always wondered where they get their funny comedy writers from... Now I realize where... Canada :p

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 06:22 AM

NOt giving racists voice in nationwide media outlets isn't about being PC, it's about having a society and civilization that is somewhat educated and not a big buckets of retards running around eliminating each other.

If Juan Williams said "I'm not racist, but whenever I go to the ATM and I see black guys in baseball caps, I think I'm going to get robbed" there would be no argument that his journalistic credibility would be questioned whenever he reported on anything remotely related to black Amercians.

David Jamieson

10-26-2010, 07:22 AM

If Juan Williams said "I'm not racist, but whenever I go to the ATM and I see black guys in baseball caps, I think I'm going to get robbed" there would be no argument that his journalistic credibility would be questioned whenever he reported on anything remotely related to black Amercians.

Well, now that he is at fox he needn't worry about journalistic credibility as it is not a requirement over there. :p

what he needs to do is bait some jews and black people and more muslims and get them at a round table arguing with each other to the point of violence and then wrap it up with a "why can't we all get along" statement. :rolleyes:

morons. :p

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 07:41 AM

Advertizers don't want that stuff, and don't want to be associated with whiney racists complaining because it's not socially acceptable for white people to use the n word and such, and NPR does not want Fox style of news, meaning little news, lots of opinion.

LMAO!

Do you know Mr Williams' past in regards to the Civil Rights movement? To even infer the guy is racist is ridiculous.

And what's wrong with FoxNews? FYI, CNN and MSNBC would kill to have the ratings FoxNews does. And speaking of advertisers, the higher the ratings the more they pay for air time. So they are paying more to advertise on FoxNews than on CNN and MSNBC.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 07:48 AM

If Juan Williams said "I'm not racist, but whenever I go to the ATM and I see black guys in baseball caps, I think I'm going to get robbed" there would be no argument that his journalistic credibility would be questioned whenever he reported on anything remotely related to black Amercians.

Agreed. But not EVERY atm robbery is done by "black guys in baseball caps". But so far EVERY hijacking in the US the last 10 years has been by Muslim men. You can call me racist, but searching 85 year old grandmothers at airports so we dont offend Muslims is ridiculous and to be honest, dangerous to public safety.

Sometimes race is a factor in certain crimes. When blacks were being lynched during the 1960s, do you think police were questioning Jews as suspects? Hispanics? Asians? Hell no, they were questioning white racists/extremists. And rightly so.

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 08:22 AM

Agreed. But not EVERY atm robbery is done by "black guys in baseball caps". But so far EVERY hijacking in the US the last 10 years has been by Muslim men. You can call me racist, but searching 85 year old grandmothers at airports so we dont offend Muslims is ridiculous and to be honest, dangerous to public safety.

Sometimes race is a factor in certain crimes. When blacks were being lynched during the 1960s, do you think police were questioning Jews as suspects? Hispanics? Asians? Hell no, they were questioning white racists/extremists. And rightly so.

I hate to break it to you, but Islam is not confined to "Brown" guys with beards.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 10:27 AM

I hate to break it to you, but Islam is not confined to "Brown" guys with beards.

I never said it was.

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 10:31 AM

I never said it was.

So how do you propose to successfully profile Muslim men, then? They come in all races.

bawang

10-26-2010, 10:34 AM

i hate to tell the obvious to your racist cracker ass, but the hijackers disguise themselves as white people.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 10:40 AM

So how do you propose to successfully profile Muslim men, then? They come in all races.

Read what Mr Williams said and you'll have a good idea.

Also, notice Mr Williams did not bring up race. You did.

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 10:50 AM

Read what Mr Williams said and you'll have a good idea.

Also, notice Mr Williams did not bring up race. You did.

Richard Reid wasn't wearing "muslim" garb, nor were any of the 9/11 hijackers.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/07/22/image631191x.jpg

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 10:55 AM

Which ones of these guys appear to "identify" themselves as muslim?

http://principallypolitical.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/9_11-hijackers.jpg

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:11 AM

I'm not playing this game.

I'm commenting on what Mr Williams said, and not delving into racial politics. Mr Williams didn't bring race into the equation, and neither should you.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:15 AM

Care to explain why this wasn't allowed on a plane?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Moh_right.gif

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:17 AM

I'm not playing this game.

I'm commenting on what Mr Williams said, and not delving into racial politics. Mr Williams didn't bring race into the equation, and neither should you.

“I mean, look, Bill, I’m not a bigot,” Williams said on the "The O'Reilly Factor" Monday. “But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”

None of these guys "identified themselves as muslim."

http://principallypolitical.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/9_11-hijackers.jpg

But so far EVERY hijacking in the US the last 10 years has been by Muslim men. You can call me racist, but searching 85 year old grandmothers at airports so we dont offend Muslims is ridiculous and to be honest, dangerous to public safety.

You seem to advocate detaining "muslim" men. What criteria do you use, then, if the actual hijackers aren't the ones "identifying themselves as muslim"?

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:21 AM

“I mean, look, Bill, I’m not a bigot,” Williams said on the "The O'Reilly Factor" Monday. “But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”

None of these guys is wearing "muslim" garb.

I'm not sure what they were wearing on 9/11. But either way, Mr Williams learned from 9/11. He has made a CHOICE about who he feels comfortable flying with. That's his right.

You seem to advocate detaining "muslim" men. What criteria do you use, then, if the actual hijackers aren't the ones wearing the "muslim" garb?

Not all of them, but 100% of the hijackers that last 10 years have been Muslim men. So let's try and use some common sense.

I'll also say that I would not have detained this man:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/combatfs2/img/joe_foss2.gif

But apparently the Federal airport screeners did just that.

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:29 AM

I'm not sure what they were wearing on 9/11. But either way, Mr Williams learned from 9/11. He has made a CHOICE about who he feels comfortable flying with. That's his right.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/07/22/image631191x.jpg
This is a 9/11 hijacker about to board the plane. What would tip you off about him?

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:30 AM

I'll also say that I would not have detained this man:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/combatfs2/img/joe_foss2.gif

Why not? He could be a muslim, couldn't he?

What's the difference between how he dresses, and this guy?

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/07/22/image631191x.jpg

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:34 AM

Knowing in hindsight that the guy below was an actual hijacker:

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/07/22/image631191x.jpg

Why would someone detain this man as a potential hijacker?

http://www.microsoft.com/games/combatfs2/img/joe_foss2.gif

Reality_Check

10-26-2010, 11:36 AM

Not all of them, but 100% of the hijackers that last 10 years have been Muslim men. So let's try and use some common sense.

There have only been 4 hijackings of US planes in the last 10 years. Those 4 occurred on 9/11. However, there have been hijackings elsewhere in the world more recently. The most recent was on September 9, 2009. The perpetrator, José Marc Flores Pereira, was not Muslim.

The one prior to that was on April 19, 2009. There is no evidence that the perpetrator, Stephen Fray, is Muslim.

Evidently not all hijackings are perpetrated by Muslims.

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:37 AM

Knowing in hindsight that the guy below was an actual hijacker:

Why would someone detain this man as a potential hijacker?

http://www.microsoft.com/games/combatfs2/img/joe_foss2.gif

Well, when someone tries to get on a plane with a sharp object, it raises flags because you cannot tell, just from how someone is dressed, what their intentions are.

I got detained for having a pocket knife on my keychain once. The rules is the rules.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:37 AM

Why not? He could be a muslim, couldn't he?

It's not about looking Muslim. Period. So stop being ridiculous. It's about a known profile they ALL have fit.

When is the last time anyone over 80 hijacked a plane? :rolleyes:

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:41 AM

It's not about looking Muslim. Period. So stop being ridiculous. It's about a known profile they ALL have fit.

"I mean, look, Bill, I’m not a bigot,” Williams said on the "The O'Reilly Factor" Monday. “But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:41 AM

Well, when someone tries to get on a plane with a sharp object, it raises flags because you cannot tell, just from how someone is dressed, what their intentions are.

I got detained for having a pocket knife on my keychain once. The rules is the rules.

Come on man. You can't be this politically correct.

The screeners are Federal employess. That medal that man earned is the highest award the Federal Gov't can give someone and they didn't even know what it was???

And we aren't just talking about clothes. That's just PART of the profile. Again, when is the last time someone of Mr Foss' age hijacked a plane?

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:43 AM

And we aren't just talking about clothes. That's just PART of the profile. Again, when is the last time someone of Mr Foss' age hijacked a plane?

Again, Muslims come in all races. It's impossible to tell if someone is muslim based on clothing and race.

And since the hijackers didn't "identify" themselves as muslim, and Richard Reid didn't "identify" himself as muslim, it's ignorant to think anyone wearing "muslim" garb should be singled out solely based on their appearance.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:45 AM

"I mean, look, Bill, I’m not a bigot,” Williams said on the "The O'Reilly Factor" Monday. “But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”

Ok, so what?

We know that actual hijackers and suicide bombers scream their Muslim sayings while murdering innocents. 'Allah Ackbar' or whatever they say. It's on the black box recorders. So yes, wearing that religion on your sleeve at a friggin airport is a red flag. Like it or not.

Why in the world are you defending terrorists? Man, you got kids. Be honest, if you and your family were on a plane and a group of guys dressed in Muslim garb all got on a plane together, you wouldn't bat an eye? Be honest. I'll be honest, I'd get the hell off the plane.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:46 AM

Again, Muslims come in all races. It's impossible to tell if someone is muslim based on clothing and race.

Not quite true. A woman wearing a burqua, for example, is a Muslim.

But you're discounting age. And sex. We've stopped female senior citizens at airports too. :rolleyes:

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:47 AM

Why in the world are you defending terrorists? Man, you got kids. Be honest, if you and your family were on a plane and a group of guys dressed in Muslim garb all got on a plane together, you wouldn't bat an eye? Be honest. I'll be honest, I'd get the hell off the plane.

Do you get scared when you see Christain white men driving Ryder rental trucks downtown?

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:49 AM

Not quite true. A woman wearing a burqua, for example, is a Muslim. And yet, not all Muslim women wear burquas.

But you're discounting age. And sex. We've stopped female senior citizens at airports too. :rolleyes:

So what is the cuttoff age for people who can blow up planes, in your opinion?

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:51 AM

Do you get scared when you see Christain white men driving Ryder rental trucks downtown?

Get real :rolleyes:

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 11:55 AM

And yet, not all Muslim women wear burquas.

True. But we know all wearers are Muslim. It's an article of clothing worn by Muslims.

So what is the cuttoff age for people who can blow up planes, in your opinion?

I don't look at it that way. We know the profile, and we should stick to it until shown it's not accurate. It may not be PC, but it is what it is.

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 11:57 AM

True. But we know all wearers are Muslim. It's an article of clothing worn by Muslims.
And yet, nothing in this image would suggest the hijacker was muslim.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/07/22/image631191x.jpg

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 12:00 PM

And yet, nothing in this image would suggest the hijacker was muslim.

Ok, lets say you're 100% correct.

Why not learn from our mistakes/experiences? Now that we know what they do look like, why not target people who fit that profile? Is this a foreign concept?

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 12:01 PM

The face of a terrorist:

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/03-18-04/MCVEIGH.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/08/12/ba_cafra01.jpg

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 12:01 PM

The face of a terrorist:

They never hijacked any planes.

Apples to oranges.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 12:02 PM

And you never answered my question about you and your family flying.

Please do, I've answered yours.

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 12:04 PM

The "garb" of a terrorist?

http://www.navytimes.com/xml/news/2010/10/ap-hood-hearing-attack-remembered-101110/120209_ap_nidal_hasan_800.JPG

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 12:08 PM

Muslim extremist:

http://media.bonnint.net/apimage/ea297dfa-e24e-4817-a508-9b8784869dec.jpg?filter=ktar/299

David Jamieson

10-26-2010, 12:12 PM

MK are you deliberately trying to break his brain or something?

cause let me tell you, he's just full of shyte and his whole gag is being fox news bias prejudice boy.

how many "1bad world views" fit on the head of pin?

.000000001

:p

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 12:13 PM

And you never answered my question about you and your family flying.

Please do, I've answered yours.

When you have kids, everyone is a threat. Honestly, I would bat an eye, but my point is that the REAL bad guys don't look like they just stepped off a movie set for Prince of Persia. The guy who molests kids usually looks ordinary. The woman who puts pills in Halloween candy usually looks ordinary. And the guys who hijack planes are smart enough to know that dressing like Aladdin will get them profiled, so you can't just target people who "appear" as threats. In fact, it's ridiculous to do so, expecially since Muslims, even extremists ones, come in all races.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 12:42 PM

When you have kids, everyone is a threat. Honestly, I would bat an eye, but my point is that the REAL bad guys don't look like they just stepped off a movie set for Prince of Persia. The guy who molests kids usually looks ordinary. The woman who puts pills in Halloween candy usually looks ordinary. And the guys who hijack planes are smart enough to know that dressing like Aladdin will get them profiled, so you can't just target people who "appear" as threats. In fact, it's ridiculous to do so, expecially since Muslims, even extremists ones, come in all races.

Thanks for the answer, and the honesty.

I agree they all don't look the same, but some actually do look like that. And again, not one female or senior citizen has hijacked a US plane in the past 10 years.

David Jamieson

10-26-2010, 01:25 PM

Thanks for the answer, and the honesty.

I agree they all don't look the same, but some actually do look like that. And again, not one female or senior citizen has hijacked a US plane in the past 10 years.

yer a feckin racist too!

who would've guessed it? :rolleyes:

KC Elbows

10-26-2010, 03:07 PM

LMAO!

Do you know Mr Williams' past in regards to the Civil Rights movement? To even infer the guy is racist is ridiculous.

And what's wrong with FoxNews? FYI, CNN and MSNBC would kill to have the ratings FoxNews does. And speaking of advertisers, the higher the ratings the more they pay for air time. So they are paying more to advertise on FoxNews than on CNN and MSNBC.

The racist comment was in response to claiming that Imus' issue was related to political correctness and free speech. Sponsors don't want to be associated with bigotry, and if you show signs of it, knowing they don't like it, they can pull their dollars or the network can let you go, you have the right to choose, free speech has nothing to do with society accepting what you say, only your right to say it on your own time. On the job, you're there for the job, and can be let go when you don't do your job or lose the company money.

But don't let me keep you from being rude.

As for his civil rights history, please share, but it has no bearing. One can be a champion for their own rights, and trample on another's. He wrote a history on the subject, but I don't know that he had a major role in it at all, I'm not finding much info on that topic.

As an example, Baptists used to be big champions of rights for all, irrespective of religion, like when one baptist wrote the pledge, which was exempt of anything that would prevent any American saying it, but more modern baptists were not as outspoken when "under God" was added to something written to be all inclusive, but would now be altered.

BJJ-Blue

10-26-2010, 03:16 PM

The racist comment was in response to claiming that Imus' issue was related to political correctness and free speech. Sponsors don't want to be associated with bigotry, and if you show signs of it, knowing they don't like it, they can pull their dollars or the network can let you go, you have the right to choose, free speech has nothing to do with society accepting what you say, only your right to say it on your own time. On the job, you're there for the job, and can be let go when you don't do your job or lose the company money.

But this is NPR, not a free market company. Imus does/did not work for a taxpayer funded company.

NPR is taxpayer funded. Advertisers do not keep them on the air, we the taxpayers do.

MasterKiller

10-26-2010, 05:20 PM

But this is NPR, not a free market company. Imus does/did not work for a taxpayer funded company.

NPR is taxpayer funded. Advertisers do not keep them on the air, we the taxpayers do.

NPR receives no direct funding from the federal government.

MysteriousPower

10-26-2010, 09:21 PM

Instead of repeatedly telling me I'm too dense, stupid, ignorant, etc to understand your superior intellect, prove it. Type out how you say the mess was caused, source it, and see if it goes over my head. Put up or shut up. ;)

Here is the thing with David Jameson. He cannot refute you so he will not even try. It is easier for him to stamp his feet, be sarcastic, and berate you. He is the world's only menstruating man.

I agree with you 100%. My post will probably be deleted if I say what I really really feel(liberal political correctness). MK willingly puts up photos of white terrorists abd will probably make the argument that Christian extremists are just ad bad or worse than the Muslim ones. You rightfully pointed out that Mcvey did not hijack planes. Smart people, not in denial, know who is blowing sh!t up all over the world and screaming Allah before doing it. It is not ALL Muslims but their community is producing them. I do not see Christian extremists blowing up trains in Spain or traveling to Pakistan to hang out with friends who happen to be higher ups in the Al Queda. These liberals will not be happy until America is bankrupted trying to fix "global warming", muslim terrorists blow up everything and kill little blonde girls, and finally weed/heroine/cocaine/whatever is made legal.

David is from a socialist country so he actually does not know what he is babbling about. Actually scratch that. Canada is even more liberal than liberal America. That is all David knows. Likely he will call me names and say I was ignorant.

Drake

10-27-2010, 05:20 AM

Actually, christians ARE blowing stuff up in Ireland, and much of the current IED technology was taught by them. Just sayin'.

MysteriousPower

10-27-2010, 05:28 AM

Actually, christians ARE blowing stuff up in Ireland, and much of the current IED technology was taught by them. Just sayin'.

Good point. But I heard they have calmed that down and called a truce of sorts to promote tourism. Though they are blowing stuff up they are keeping it in their backyard. They are not trying to spread their religion and bombs all over the world.

Drake

10-27-2010, 05:43 AM

Good point. But I heard they have calmed that down and called a truce of sorts to promote tourism. Though they are blowing stuff up they are keeping it in their backyard. They are not trying to spread their religion and bombs all over the world.

But they are selling what they know to the people who are. IEDs, tactics, etc. They deal with AQ and Hez.

MasterKiller

10-27-2010, 06:40 AM

Christian Terrorists:

Beginning in the late nineteenth century, white supremacist Ku Klux Klan members in the Southern United States engaged in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans, Jews, Catholics and other social or ethnic minorities.

The National Liberation Front of Tripura, a rebel group operating in Tripura, North-East India classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world, has been accused of forcefully converting people to Christianity.

The 2002 Soweto Bombings were a string of terrorist attacks that occurred in Soweto in South Africa's Gauteng province, in late 2002. Nine blasts took place on 30 October 2002, leaving one woman dead and her husband severely injured.
The terrorists were said to be motivated by a sense of alienation and frustration with their situation in South Africa, as well as religious beliefs similar to Christian Identity, which asserted their God-given right to rule the nation.

Christian Identity is a loosely affiliated global group of churches and individuals devoted to a racialized theology that asserts North European whites are the direct descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, God's chosen people. It has been associated with groups such as the Aryan Nations, Aryan Republican Army, Army of God, Phineas Priesthood, and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord.

The Christian Identity movement first received widespread attention by mainstream media in 1984, when the white nationalist organization known as The Order embarked on a murderous crime spree before being taken down by the FBI.

During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.

Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group, nine of its members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy to use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.

A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven."

The Lord's Resistance Army, a cult guerrilla army engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government, has been accused of using child soldiers and committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, porters and sex slaves. It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the Christian Holy Spirit which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations.

Russian National Unity, a far right ultra-nationalist political party and paramilitary organization, advocates an increased role for the Russian Orthodox Church according to its manifesto. It has been accused of murders, and several terrorist attacks including the bombing of the US Consulate in Ekaterinburg.

Anti-Semitic Romanian Orthodox fascist movements in Romania, such as the Iron Guard and Lăncieri, were responsible for involvement in the Holocaust, Bucharest pogrom, and political murders during the 1930s.

The Orange Volunteers are a group infamous for carrying out simultaneous terrorist attacks on Catholic churches

David Jamieson

10-27-2010, 07:49 AM

Here is the thing with David Jameson. He cannot refute you so he will not even try. It is easier for him to stamp his feet, be sarcastic, and berate you. He is the world's only menstruating man.

I agree with you 100%. My post will probably be deleted if I say what I really really feel(liberal political correctness). MK willingly puts up photos of white terrorists abd will probably make the argument that Christian extremists are just ad bad or worse than the Muslim ones. You rightfully pointed out that Mcvey did not hijack planes. Smart people, not in denial, know who is blowing sh!t up all over the world and screaming Allah before doing it. It is not ALL Muslims but their community is producing them. I do not see Christian extremists blowing up trains in Spain or traveling to Pakistan to hang out with friends who happen to be higher ups in the Al Queda. These liberals will not be happy until America is bankrupted trying to fix "global warming", muslim terrorists blow up everything and kill little blonde girls, and finally weed/heroine/cocaine/whatever is made legal.

David is from a socialist country so he actually does not know what he is babbling about. Actually scratch that. Canada is even more liberal than liberal America. That is all David knows. Likely he will call me names and say I was ignorant.

I can easily refute the guy. That's why he goes off on a tangent all the time and starts trying to distract and take attention away from the fact that he is quite often biased, wrong and extremely prejudicial in his views. Like you are. Not to mention, you also need to make it personal as if you are some high school bully trying to make an impact.

Thing is, to me you are just some misguided kid with some misplaced emotions about situations, people and events in the world.

you'll sort through it and in the end, everything will be alright. In the end, everything works out for everyone after all. Even if it is someone's death, because that is the great equalizer and we all get to experience that.

In fact, the key to having a good life is to work towards having a good death. :)
If you need my persona here to throw your hate at, that's ok. It has no effect and so, you get your release (well not really, it is still not dealing with your root problem) and I get to observe a person like you and get that much more understanding of the psychological makeup of individuals who carry out the sorts of things that you carry out.

MysteriousPower

10-27-2010, 09:21 PM

NPR receives no direct funding from the federal government.

You are flat out wrong about this. The grand total that NPR receives from tax payer money is about $420 million. You have been listening to the propoganda from msnbc.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/10/how_public_is_nprs_funding.html

Davey,

You think I am a misguided kid? I think you are secretly intimidated by the mma folk on this board. Your 16 years of qi gong did not do much for your confidence or fighting skill. But atleast you have great posture. You used to feel tough because of your years of hand waving slow tai chi movements but then mma came along and burst your bubble. It is time to get over your lacking in the martial arts department. You mentioned that your tai chi involves trips, takedowns, and throws. Do you really think anyone believes you or takes your serious as someone knowledgeable in fighting? Your purpose on the kung fu boards is to talk about the levels of qi gong and to make others feel even better about their real training. Go back to qi gong land. Maybe if you do qi gong on some mountain where no one challenges you intellectually you will get over yourself and your anger issues.

MasterKiller

10-27-2010, 10:33 PM

You are flat out wrong about this. The grand total that NPR receives from tax payer money is about $420 million. You have been listening to the propoganda from msnbc.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/10/how_public_is_nprs_funding.html.

Nowhere in your link does it dispute what I said. Grants are from the CPB, not directly from the Federal government.

David Jamieson

10-28-2010, 05:19 AM

http://www.juancole.com/2010/10/end-federal-tax-subsidies-to-fox.html

Cut the federal funding that gives Rupert Murdoch tax breaks that has him paying 6%.

You wanna talk about indirect funding from teh taxpayers.

There isn't a media company out there that doesn't suck the state or federal teat.

Whining about getting rid of Williams after his grossly inappropriate comments on another station is just Whining.

NPR weren't the bigoted racists, Williams was and I don't blame NPR for cutting him loose, who the heck would wanna be associated with that?

I mean except you rednecks, fascists and closet nazis. lol :p

MysteriousPower

10-28-2010, 05:24 AM

Nowhere in your link does it dispute what I said. Grants are from the CPB, not directly from the Federal government.

<<At first glance, this distribution of funds seems to confirm that public radio's support does not come in large amounts from the direct allocation of tax moneys. After all, 5.6% is not a gigantic portion of the budget, is it? But let's look more closely. That 10.1% that comes from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is 99% provided by -- you guessed it -- the federal government. Those university funds, whenever they are provided by a public university, represent taxpayer-provided dollars. We can safely assert that three out of four university-supported stations are publicly funded, which means that more than 10% (three-quarters of that 13.6%) is taken from the taxpayer's pockets.

So far, we find that NPR member stations count on direct or indirect taxpayer money for some 25% of their funds -- and that's before we consider some of the largest portions of their budgets.>>

I am not sure how you missed this part. It does not come directly from taxpayers BUT 99% of CPB's funds cone from tax payers money. So if CPB donates money it is donating tax dollars. That is like if you gave your kid lunch money and then he bought drugs for his friend on a continuous basis. You can either tell him to stop it stop funding him. If you found out CBP was using tax money to buy prostitutes for its employees you would be upset because that is our money.