FOR THE TEACHERS: for how much are you willing to give up your knowledge?

[hskwarrior]

In light of the other thread, from a teacher's perspective, what's a reasonable amount you are willing to charge a student for you time, knowledge, and effort in teaching your system?

In some cases a teacher has more than just a TEACHER role to play. He or she can be a psychiatrist, baby sitter, and problem solver amonst other things.

So how much is teaching worth to you?

[-N-]

Been trying to give it away for free, and it's still a struggle.

[David Jamieson]

Anybody looking for daddy can beat it.

No kids whatsoever, get them day care or babysit them yourself.

If you can't consistently remember what was shown in the last session, after a while that wears thin, so beat it, you're wasting your time and mine.

I don't exchange with many guys because of this and I might get one student a year with this.

But the quality of the relationships are great and the sessions always go great.

I can't be bothered with making a public offering because I won't subject myself to anyone else's desires for money when it comes to Kung Fu. IE: soccer moms demanding belts or recognition for their special one. lol or parents who drop off their lazy kids who maintain that lazy in a class or adults that display poor social development issues.

Only adults with definite determination to learn and share. That's who I have time to share with.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

When I taught before, class was 30 bucks a month for 2 days a week.

When I open my new school in the next few months it will be 5 bucks per class or 25 bucks per month, 2 days a week.

Most of you probably think that is dirt cheap, but in the area I live in, the economy is not good and that is pretty much what is charged, although my rates are a bit cheaper. It also helps that I own the building and have pretty much no overhead.

I look at my Kung Fu from this standpoint, if someone has the will and desire to learn, I will teach them. I am not their babysitter, psychiatrist (I wish I could charge those rates:D) or anything else. I do consider myself a friend and a coach/instructor, nothing more, nothing less.

[bawang]

iron eagle you are a man with honor. u teach cheep and help community u follow the way of manlines
will u adopt me as your brother we wrestle no cloth

[Iron_Eagle_76]

iron eagle you are a man with honor. u teach cheep and help community u follow the way of manlines
will u adopt me as your brother we wrestle no cloth

I adopt you as my chosen disciple, but first, you must seek out the unrightoues KFMers who overcharge students, talk about poltics too much, and dishonor the chinese language by having 8 year old children butcher it. Find these infidels, and give them chinese water torture. Than you will be the chosen one, but no naked wrestling.:D

[Dale Dugas]

I charge $85.00 per month for 6-8 hours of instruction a month.

I have rent to pay for the space we train in. Rent in Boston is not cheap.

I also need insurance in case someone gets injured, again these policies are not cheap.

My Baguazhang classes are usually an hour long and I stick around and help students who want to practice on their own.

Class time is mainly for instruction and correction, not so much for training IMHO.

Training is what you need to do the rest of the week, and if a student could not be bothered, then so be it.

I gave up trying to teach those who were not interested. I give those who want it what they seek.

I have lots of people who come visit for private lessons in Iron Palm, Iron Vest, and other material they are seeking.

They usually are the ones hungry enough for the knowledge.

I am lucky that I have a core group of students who are very serious and train all the time.

I only wish I had more of them. Nothing wrong with a group of people who are serious about training.

For all of you who think people should teach for free, please stop and take a long hard look at reality.

I need to pay my bills, rent, just like the rest of us. I understand that many people are not doing well in this economy. Hence I do not charge much for my instruction. Most Mcdojo Karate schools charge over 100.00 per month.

I am going to be in debt for $100,000 after I am done with my Masters Degree in Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine. I would not have done this unless I really have the desire to help people who are in need of it using Acupuncture and herbal medicine.

I find nothing wrong with making money on something that I love, and love to teach.

I drive a Honda Civic, not a Lexus.

I rent and do not own.

I have no contracts and never will.

My rate for private lessons is $60.00 per hour.

Much cheaper than so called masters who demand sycophantic like worship as well as demanding ridiculous amounts of money for questionable skills/material.

Anyone who has come to train with me or have business dealings with me knows that I hold nothing back and take care of all who care to train with me or buy my herbal medicines.

Too bad there are so many idiots out there who ruin it for the real teachers.

[bawang]

ok i give them special chinese water torture in my pants

no naked wrestling.:D
why not


to me teaching kung fu for money is like charging peopel to go to church like scientologists
instead of becoming better people people develop this star trek convention mentality because of this.
also the reason kung fu teachers make their stuff overcomplicated is to justify teaching it for money.

[Violent Designs]

my knowledge, is worth $5 dollars and a blowjob.

not from bawang tho.

[bawang]

i no have gay u have gay
gay guy

u have long hair like womans.

[EarthDragon]

all the money i make from teaching goes right back into the school. i.e rent bills equipment, MMA octagon (newly purchassed).

Becuse of this i am allowed to be strict and not give people a false sense of acompliments, like so many other schools do.
In our scholl if you dont have it you keep doing it till you do have it. I have 3 students who have been with me for over 13, 12, and 11 years who are not yet shifu's.

When you are looking to make a living teaching MA then you are forced into thinks like you gotta lighten up, water down, teach 5 year olds and pass the students to the next level whether they are ready for it or not.
i am truely blessed that i do not have to do any of these and the rent is still paid and the lights are on.

[bawang]

In our scholl if you dont have it you keep doing it till you do have it. I have 3 students who have been with me for over 13, 12, and 11 years who are not yet shifu's.

why havent you expelled them yet

this is why kung fu academies arent real academies.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I used to teach when I was part of a school.
I don't teach anymore and not sure if I ever will.
My MA is to awesome and deadly !
And:
" You are NOT a Tanaka !! Our family Martial art is passed down from father to son, from father to son *tear rolls down eye* !"

[Dale Dugas]

all the money i make from teaching goes right back into the school. i.e rent bills equipment, MMA octagon (newly purchassed).

Becuse of this i am allowed to be strict and not give people a false sense of acompliments, like so many other schools do.
In our scholl if you dont have it you keep doing it till you do have it. I have 3 students who have been with me for over 13, 12, and 11 years who are not yet shifu's.

When you are looking to make a living teaching MA then you are forced into thinks like you gotta lighten up, water down, teach 5 year olds and pass the students to the next level whether they are ready for it or not.
i am truely blessed that i do not have to do any of these and the rent is still paid and the lights are on.


I agree with you 100%.

I will never teach kids, nor will I rank someone who does not deserve it.

I am my teachers student, and follow his example.

[EarthDragon]

dale

I agree with you 100%.

I will never teach kids, nor will I rank someone who does not deserve it.

I am my teachers student, and follow his example.

this is soooooo refreshing to hear Dale.
I am currently teaching 5 black belts that have so called earned thier black belts from other schools:rolleyes:

[Dale Dugas]

I am old school.

Black belt means nothing more than advanced beginner ready to learn more.

Our system never uses the word master for anyone alive, as you can always improve and should strive to always do that, keep working on getting better.

Hence we use master to refer to people who have passed away.

Way too many people like fancy titles, and belts, which mean nothing when it comes to using your material to save yourself or someone in need.

the youngest I would teach is 18.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I used to teach when I was part of a school.
I don't teach anymore and not sure if I ever will.
My MA is to awesome and deadly !
And:
" You are NOT a Tanaka !! Our family Martial art is passed down from father to son, from father to son *tear rolls down eye* !"

"Teach me, I can do it!"

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I am old school.

Black belt means nothing more than advanced beginner ready to learn more.

Our system never uses the word master for anyone alive, as you can always improve and should strive to always do that, keep working on getting better.

Hence we use master to refer to people who have passed away.

Way too many people like fancy titles, and belts, which mean nothing when it comes to using your material to save yourself or someone in need.

the youngest I would teach is 18.

A lot of truth in this Dale. I really think the problem is most people do not realize that a black belt is more of a beginning than an end. I never understood charging outrageous fees for belt testing either. To me a test is simply what you know. My Sifu always told us that the test was merely the motions, or the rite of passage. He had already determined we were ready for the next rank or we would not be testing.

A testing fee in my system was ten dollars, it covered the cost of the sash and your certificate. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for titles, I always liked that saying "There are only slaves where there are masters". Makes a lot of sense if you think about it.

[dimethylsea]

I don't teach kids. We play with knives. Hard to take on the responsibility of teaching someone else's kid how to play with blades. That is their elder's job.

I charge about 1/3 to 1/2 the going rate of other schools in my area, with a payment waiver for people who are broke but love the training. But if you no pay, and you no practice, I no have you around :D

It seems to be working pretty well. I'm still around when other guys locally have gone under. If I were going for a truly commercial school though I'd start a kali/MMA school. The "Fu" is different though. Who wants it these days? Better to have 10 good ones than 50 indifferent ones that make you grit your teeth every time you teach.

[sanjuro_ronin]

"Teach me, I can do it!"
*Looks with Mifune Scowl*
"Why?"

[Iron_Eagle_76]

"To honor, you, Shidoshi".

[sanjuro_ronin]

"To honor, you, Shidoshi".

*Mifune scowl turns into smile*

"Yosh !"

*Semi-naked geishas come in and much rejoicing is had by all !*
http://www.myxxxblog.com/images/asian-geisha-lesbian.jpg

[jdhowland]

My core students pay in sweat. I don't need to make money to keep a venue open. Two of my teachers never charged me a cent.

I currently teach mainly at a yoga studio that my wife used to own. We signed the studio over to another yoga teacher to give us more time for our children but stipulated that the senior kung fu students and family members never have to pay. The school makes a decent profit and I am, by choice, the only unpaid instructor. As Master Fong used to say: "I'm not really a "professional" because I don't make any money from this."

There is a schedule of fees but I don't pay much attention to it. I think it's something like $50 + borough taxes for ten classes or $80 for a one-month "unlimited" pass, meaning that the student can go to any of the classes the studio has to offer for one month. They also offer a $10 drop-in fee for any single class.

[TenTigers]

138.00 per month for unlimited classes.(this is NY,rents are 25-30 per sq ft-industrial space is much cheaper, but in my area, you would need to be in a very bad part of town for this, and I just left -gangs, shootings, etc) and I am open to the public)
most schools around here charge more, some upwards of 200. per month-I sh1t thee not.
we have noon as well as evening classes, all taught by me personally. Everyone gets personal attention. If they need one on one, I am there for them.
It is not uncommon for a student to come in at noon, and then return in the evening.
Senior students (mid-level grade and up) can take beginner classes, or work on the side of other classes as well-but if needed, they help out.
Older bros and sisters help younger.
We have a set curriculum, with each level printed out on a sheet, which the student keeps in a workbook, so they never plateau and maintain progress.

[Dragonzbane76]

I've taught but never tried to make a living at it. I figured it would be hard. Had a school for awhile at the local college. Had an agreement with them and at times had a good showing, but summer would always roll around and people would be filtering in and out. Finally had enough of it and we shut it down.

In the process of actually starting another at the moment. Doing work to a building at my friends house (another teacher) and hopefully we can get everything in line and start teaching in a month or so. Great thing about this place is there is no overhead because my friend owns the building. So don't have to worry about people showing up or not.

[yutyeesam]

because in the history of cma cultures, prominent famous and well respected sifus never asked their students to give up anything of themselves for their tutelage or ever teach kids. :rolleyes:

fact of the matter is, if you don't charge, people will not value. just TRY to give away kung fu. just try it. no one will take it. sorry to hit you with that reality. they don't share your love.

unless you put a price tag on it. that's the way it works in a capitalist system.

as for kids, you just have to know how to teach them. it's not rocket science. but it requires a skill called SEEING THRU THE EYES OF OTHERS. unfortunately, you'll have to crush your ego to develop this skill.

i've turned adhd kids into straight a students with kung fu training, and thwart away school bullies. but you're right, there's no honor in that.

i have the ultimate chinese skill - adaptability.
i train full contact fighters, and i train special needs 3 year olds.
it's doable, you just have to be smart and willing to educate yourself.

extreme thinking is what gets you into trouble, and the cause of stagnation.

anyways, this falls on deaf ears. but in case anyone cares to listen, the cynicism on this board are recipes for failure at life! lol

as you were.

[bawang]

because in the history of cma cultures, prominent famous and well respected sifus never asked their students to give up anything of themselves for their tutelage or ever teach kids. :rolleyes:

fact of the matter is, if you don't charge, people will not value. just TRY to give away kung fu. just try it. no one will take it. sorry to hit you with that reality. they don't share your love.

my entire life i learned kung fu for free from friends in school and family.
i meet someone in the park and in 5 min we be training together and hangin out.

because in the history of cma cultures, prominent famous and well respected sifus never asked their students to give up anything of themselves for their tutelage or ever teach kids. :rolleyes:

who?

the shaolin monks you white people obsess about taught for free. they still teach poor kids for free. why dont u guys follow their example?

[yutyeesam]

my entire life i learned kung fu for free from friends in school and family.
i meet someone in the park and in 5 min we be training together and hangin out.


in china? cool. in canada? cool. in us? forget it.
and how long did you stick with it? how good are you?

you talk a lot of crap, my friend.

and you show youknowwho (ie shifu john wang) a lot of disrespect in this forum, you tell him he's wrong and call him dumb. he is a very well respected and accomplished sifu, who you treat like dirt.
you have no respect for real kung fu and real kung fu teachers. you'd be lucky to get an ounce of live training from him. he offers solid advice and repeatedly you throw it back in his face.

in my eyes you're not ready or worthy of real kung fu training. learn some respect first. otherwise, yeah you're gonna have to learn it for free from strangers in the parks, b/c real sifu's won't accept you.

[bawang]

im just joking with him. we both chilese hes my brother from another mother. youre just embarrased because you teach kids lol

my first teacher here in canada, i was 13, he refuse to let me call him sifu, he says you are like my brother, so we walk down the street and i give the 100 dollar bill to a beggar. thats a magical kung fu moment right there he had tears in his eyes. i have more honor than u.

how many magical kung fu moements did u have? zero lol

[GeneChing]

About $5 per issue (http://www.martialartsmart.com/kungfu-magazine.html).
An annual subscription is only $15. (http://www.martialartsmart.com/19341.html)
Forum posts are free.

Privates on a sliding scale, but there is a stipulation: I "have long hair like womans" and that raises tuition, especially for my ninjettes (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58511). ;)

[yutyeesam]

im just joking with him. we both chilese hes my brother from another mother. youre just embarrased because you teach kids lol

embarassed??? I'm PROUD of teaching kids!! I have 2 of my own! i am a family man! and my sifu's are all family men themselves who also teach kids.

sorry bawang, but you're fat. you don't really train. not if you spend this much time on here. you're just embarrassed because you are grossly out of shape! lmao

[MasterKiller]

sorry bawang, but you're fat. you don't really train. not if you spend this much time on here. you're just embarrassed because you are grossly out of shape! lmao

I have it on good authority that bawang is ripped like a pre-op trannie.

[bawang]

noe. i train hard i wake up 5 am. every day i pray to guan gong. at night i hear the boxers in my dreams "avenge meeeeeeee" then i wake up and cry.

[Lucas]

the only time i ever will teach on my own is for training partner(s) or if someone ask me to learn, i will teach what i know for free if i want to teach that person.

[yutyeesam]

I have it on good authority that bawang is ripped like a pre-op trannie.

we definitely need some pics

[Lucas]

you really dont want to ask for pics....

[yutyeesam]

im just joking with him. we both chilese hes my brother from another mother. youre just embarrased because you teach kids lol

my first teacher here in canada, i was 13, he refuse to let me call him sifu, he says you are like my brother, so we walk down the street and i give the 100 dollar bill to a beggar. thats a magical kung fu moment right there he had tears in his eyes. i have more honor than u.

how many magical kung fu moements did u have? zero lol

i don't believe in magic, you villager. i am results driven.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

we definitely need some pics

http://www.chinasmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/zeng-yike-photoshop-rambo-02.jpg

[Jimbo]

My Tanglang teacher in Taiwan (who also taught Chen Taiji and Hung Gar) offered free kung fu to the public for a whole year. He told me that in that time, not one of the very few people who took him up on his offer stuck around for more than a few sessions. And he was a very good, hands-on teacher, too.

His plan had been to teach students in that year for free, develop good practitioners, then after one year, new students would be charged, but his original students would continue for free. Because he wanted to be a MA teacher by profession, not on the side.

Unfortunately, those who got in on the free deal did not appreciate what he was giving to them. Finally, he got fed up and began charging. He began picking up more and more students, until he had a large number of them. Some of the original students he'd taught for free but had left, came back and wanted to start again. By this time, my teacher told them that now they would have to pay like everybody else. This they gladly did. In fact, one of them told him that, although he knew the kung fu being taught was good, when he wasn't being charged for it, he didn't value it. That student had thought, 'If he's giving it away for free, it can't be that good.' Even though he could see that the teacher was good, he couldn't bring himself to trust in free kung fu.

My teacher told me that if you don't place some type of monetary value on your MA and your teaching services, nobody else will value it, either.

Now, in this world I'm sure there are exceptions to that. But if someone wants to make a living as a kung fu teacher, they have to charge for it.

Many years later, back in the U.S., I taught my own classes in CLF. Three days a week, equaling about 24 hours a month, all hands-on. I charged $80/month. This I did for 4 years, until I realized I enjoyed being a practitioner more than being a teacher. I only had a small group, all adults, with a core group of 3, and had about 9 at its highest number. It was a good experience for me and for them.

[bawang]

i don't believe in magic, you villager. i am results driven.

ok mang *rubs nipples

[yutyeesam]

ok mang *rubs nipples

you won internet fight from nipple rub.

but u lost at life.

[hskwarrior]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/5/2/128857642738705816.jpg

[hskwarrior]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YMpj1xfnHgE/SBjntac1ngI/AAAAAAAAAq8/_hv7Pf4WNQk/s400/Chau+Giang+nipple+rub.jpg

[hskwarrior]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CeHYpVVkriw/S8cla283v9I/AAAAAAAAA9A/bYbkm5TOjVI/s1600/peter_steele_nude_040.jpg

[yutyeesam]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CeHYpVVkriw/S8cla283v9I/AAAAAAAAA9A/bYbkm5TOjVI/s1600/peter_steele_nude_040.jpg

I TAKE OFFENSE THAT YOU PORTRAYED ME AS A WHITE MAN! lol

[GeneChing]

You know, hskwarrior, I'm re-thinking your post heading "FOR THE TEACHERS: for how much are you willing to give up your knowledge?" As I know you and I know your master, I can understand the old skool roots in what you're saying. But for me personally, it's not about giving up. It's about passing down. I'm all about passing down my knowledge, what little of it I have, out of respect for the art. For me, it's more about finding a worthy student, one that's willing to commit to receiving it.

As for the money, well, it's been nearly a decade since I taught kung fu lessons for money. My writing is a form of teaching, and I that's where I make my living, but that's different than actually teaching kung fu techniques. When I was making my living as a hands-on teacher, I taught for a school which had it's own going rates. I had a sliding scale for privates, based mostly on what I thought of the student (meaning how ready they were to receiving teachings) and how much they could afford (meaning I gave poorer students breaks). I didn't teach that many privates, however.

[David Jamieson]

value based on money is a complete construct.

It is a fault more than it is a useful mechanism of thought or action.

If you see someone, know someone who offers what you want to learn, that they offer it for free is a blessing.

I don't give more value to something because it costs more.

that's like saying a Cadillac is better than a Toyota when you KNOW the caddy is a POS that is going to give you headaches a lot sooner than the Toyota will and yet, there is the value question.

Fine art, music, martial art etc, all these things, at least the skills to produce with them YOU CANNOT BUY anyway, even if you pay money, you have to pay with work as well.

So, if someone doesn't value something because they aren't paying much for it, that is their illusion to overcome. I am unconcerned with that.

But I don't begrudge anyone who is making their living from teaching martial arts in any form. Even if they are offering not the best of show, it really doesn't matter, they are offering something that someone wants.

[hskwarrior]

I TAKE OFFENSE THAT YOU PORTRAYED ME AS A WHITE MAN! lol

LOL....sorry brother. just trying to keep people off your trail LMAO

[hskwarrior]

You know, hskwarrior, I'm re-thinking your post heading "FOR THE TEACHERS: for how much are you willing to give up your knowledge?" As I know you and I know your master, I can understand the old skool roots in what you're saying. But for me personally, it's not about giving up. It's about passing down. I'm all about passing down my knowledge, what little of it I have, out of respect for the art. For me, it's more about finding a worthy student, one that's willing to commit to receiving it.

Gene,

I totally understand you. I too feel that way so i don't charge an arm and a leg, partly because i don't have a martial art business. My group of students in the philippines i don't charge at all because its their hard work that is my pay off. i don't charge one of my current students here and she comes three times a week. (don't go there ;) )

From the perspective of my question, many of us put in hard work at learning our material, devoting our lives and time. some out there feel that their time is worth money. in some aspects their right. but there is always exceptions to the rule.

i feel a student should contribute what he can to his teacher but to NEVER place himself in need by doing so.

[YouKnowWho]

If you

- want to teach someone, show him one move and repeat that move for the next 6 months.
- don't want to teach someone, show him 10 new moves oneday and 10 new moves the day after and never review it.

Sometime it may look like the teacher doesn't want to teach you much. The truth is the teacher is teaching you exactly the same way as he had learned from his teacher. Sometime it may look like the teacher is willing to teach you everything. The truth is that teacher don't want you to learn and remember anything.

[SPJ]

some general lessons maybe free or give away

but some lessons are priceless

the teacher only guides you thru the door and the rest is upto the students

spoon feed all the way

or some basic lessons and self exploration

guidance here and there or some pointers

to guide the student along his or her path

--

here are the rules of playing chinese chess

then go ahead and play the chess with other student

---

[hskwarrior]

the teacher only guides you thru the door and the rest is upto the students

its very similar to what i tell my students. I tell em, "I can provide you the tools and even show you how to build something. you can either take these tools and place them in your garage on the wall or go out and build something. show me what you can build based off of what i taught you!"

[yutyeesam]

My take on this whole topic is the devaluation all the way to a government level on the value of teaching and teachers.

I have Masters in Education, and have worked in the public sector as an educator. It's so infuriating to see so many devalue the teaching skill of excellent teachers.

Most people don't view teaching as a skill.

This is one of the reasons I left the field in place of teaching martial arts. I not only make more money, but I don't have to deal with political and bureaucratic nonsense, and it's enjoyable...and I "force" people to value my skill as a teacher.

So I get super tired of hearing people devalue the skill of teachers by saying they should teach for free. That shows no sense of respect or value of the science and art of teaching.

You can be the best kung fu practitioner in the world. Doesn't mean you can teach very well. Teaching is it's own entity.

Teaching is a trade, no matter what the discipline.

Yes, we can be charitable with our knowledge, just like if you have a friend who's really good with computers, he could fix your computer for free, and he's being charitable with his knowledge. Heck, he could even teach you how to fix your computer, and that's totally being charitable...
because if you didn't have that friend, you'd have to pay a professional to fix your computer, and if you wanted to learn to do it yourself, you'd have to pay to take computer classes from a professional teacher.

This is hard to understand?

[yutyeesam]

LOL....sorry brother. just trying to keep people off your trail LMAO

You're a good man...or should I say, mang! lol

[bawang]

dear master rahman,

i did not realize you were brown, please accept my deepest apologies. ilove the brown peopels they are my brothers. i fully support your school and wish you great sucess and make monies from the white peopels.

[TenTigers]

so if a guy goes to law school for a few years, he gets to charge 250. an hr for his services. But a guy trains for thirty years in the Martial Arts, how much should he charge?

[tiaji1983]

I am old school.

Black belt means nothing more than advanced beginner ready to learn more.

Our system never uses the word master for anyone alive, as you can always improve and should strive to always do that, keep working on getting better.

Hence we use master to refer to people who have passed away.

Way too many people like fancy titles, and belts, which mean nothing when it comes to using your material to save yourself or someone in need.

the youngest I would teach is 18.

Amen. The youngest I would teach is 13

[tiaji1983]

Here its rediculous. I went to 3 schools, trained at 2. The first I went to, "Master" Yang, wanted to charge me $250 every 3 months for 1 hour of training every sunday and would teach me a secret 400 movement Wudang form that I found out later doesnt exist. He never showed up to the first class, and when I asked for an extension on the payment he told me no and hung up his phone on me.

The 2nd told Wushu garbage he made up himself, calling it Yang style Taichi. $55 every 2 weeks for 1 hour classes Tues and Thurs only. I learned a couple things, but not woth the money.

My current teacher charges $50 a month for kingfu and offeres Free Qigong classes 6 days a week for the community. Private classes are $120 an hour just because if you want private classes and you think your special, you can afford a special fee, when you can just pay less and come in with everyone else...

I hope I dont have to charge the public to teach, but if I do to either keep the school open or to survive, my fees will be similar. Probably $50-$75 a month, and will offer free Qigong as well. I teach family and friends for free, but they dont share my love and do not practice like they should, but I dont care, I will continue to waste my time until they find what they love, or I no longer have contact with them anymore. I hope to teach my family so they can open up thier own schools and make thier own money too, and get them away from where I grew up.

[Yum Cha]

Free schools can't survive?

We have been going strong since 1988. First we trained at a temple thanks to the good graces of the local Uncle in charge. This was the closed door period, until about 1999, when we outgrew the temple and moved to the park and opened up the school with the website.

We support Sifu with lion dancing, and he also provides shirts and belts to everybody. Every year we celebrate his birthday and put together a few fat red packets.

Pak Mei has a tradition of this kind of teaching, so something about it works. Sifu trained and lived with his master, and worked in the security business at night with the rest of the lads, like a co-op.

I'd like to think were pretty big for an informal school, with 40 members on the books, about half active on a regular basis. Yea, I know its not usual.

It also gives us some latitude in how we choose to treat prospective students, and how we discipline the group. From day one everybody is reminded, we don't care if you leave or don't come back. You get lessons in exchange for sweat, not money. And if you get attention, its because you deserve it, not because you are paying for it.

[omarthefish]

so if a guy goes to law school for a few years, he gets to charge 250. an hr for his services. But a guy trains for thirty years in the Martial Arts, how much should he charge?

To teach law or to practice it?

I'd say that I would happily demand FAR more money by the hour for actual fighting than for teaching fighting. ;)

[Dragonzbane76]

Many years later, back in the U.S., I taught my own classes in CLF. Three days a week, equaling about 24 hours a month, all hands-on. I charged $80/month. This I did for 4 years, until I realized I enjoyed being a practitioner more than being a teacher

I can relate. Went through the same period in my life. Taught for some years and then realized I wanted more and that I wasn't getting it were I was (teaching).

Came to realize that I enjoyed learning more than teaching. :)

[bawang]

so if a guy goes to law school for a few years, he gets to charge 250. an hr for his services. But a guy trains for thirty years in the Martial Arts, how much should he charge?

i know a guy that suffered four ministrokes from stufying law, he qui in the fourth year.
kung fu doesnt deserve to even be mentioned with actual real academics. its nowhere in the same difficulty and competitiveness.

some of you guys have been teaching kung fu for too long. go out there and get a real job and see how tough the real world is.

[David Jamieson]

i know a guy that suffered four ministrokes from stufying law, he qui in the fourth year.
kung fu doesnt deserve to even be mentioned with actual real academics. its nowhere in the same difficulty and competitiveness.

Because you don't respect it as a profession, doesn't mean it's not a respected profession.

It depends on how you value things.

A person can get through law school and be a failure as a lawyer and still charge exorbitant amounts of money for the services.

But the bottom line is that if you do not value it, then you simply don't value it.

People pay for yoga, aromatherapy, and so on. They pay a fair amount for that too.

So, I guess I'm saying I do not agree with you on this point. :p

[bawang]

in my village there used to be a guy that carries away your sh1t in a bucket. that needs more dedication, nerve, and courage than any glorified dance instructor. i respect sh1t carriers more than people who teach kung fu for profit.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

in my village there used to be a guy that carries away your sh1t in a bucket. that needs more dedication, nerve, and courage than any glorified dance instructor. i respect sh1t carriers more than people who teach kung fu for profit.

Did you need a college education for this job?:D

[bawang]

family dont charge each other money. people are just paying for the illusion of being in a family, illusion of being among friends.
money to pay for the place i can understand, but trying to act all high and professional like this is some sort of business is sad.

if your kung fu school doesnt even pretend in that, just pay money learn form, then theres not really any point to you being alive. your human garbage just exploiting people and exploiting chinese culture. lower than the birds that fly and beasts that walk the earth.

for northern boxing, the military paid YOU to learn it. for southern boxing, revolutionaries taught it freely. the only ones who taught for money are lowest scum

"professional" kung fu is a pyramid scheme

[Dragonzbane76]

in my village there used to be a guy that carries away your sh1t in a bucket. that needs more dedication, nerve, and courage than any glorified dance instructor. i respect sh1t carriers more than people who teach kung fu for profit.

I can understand that.

Other day I was standing looking out the window and some employee's come up beside me. outside a guy as digging a ditch, it was raining and just plain sh!tty out. They started cracking jokes about the guy. I wasn't amused. Bunch of IT nerds making fun of someone for working hard. I turned and said well at least that guy knows the meaning of hard work and walked off.

Guy asked me if I was mad or something I said "no, but I find it funny a bunch of IT nerds whom have no idea about what it is to work with there hands can sit and make fun of someone for doing it."

I came from a background of coal miners, I worked 2 years underground, worked through college doing construction/landscaping. Worked in the hayfields as a kid, etc. just find it irritating when people of "higher" standing look down.

[PlumDragon]

I charge $65/month for my group class and its limited to 5 people max. 1-on-1 sessions are $40/hr. When people travel more than a few hours to train with me and train for several days at a time, I generally only charge $30/hr.

It all trickles up the ladder. I charge my students for my time/expertise and use that money to pay my teachers for their time/expertise; going to the Philippines to train 2 full weeks every year and spending several more weeks around the US training isnt cheap, and I still have to put food on the table. When my students have students of their own, I expect them to do the same thing. The expertise gleaned from training is priceless; fees are just so we can make a living.

I would teach teenagers, and give them as much as they could absorb; Ive seen teengaers who can absorb serious martial arts material better than a lot of adults...

[David Jamieson]

in my village there used to be a guy that carries away your sh1t in a bucket. that needs more dedication, nerve, and courage than any glorified dance instructor. i respect sh1t carriers more than people who teach kung fu for profit.

first of all, you're not in your village are you. you are in a wealthy nation.
secondly, if you hate tcma so much, why do you bother practicing them at all. It must be hell to hate what you are doing and doing it anyway.

kind of like a fat guy crying while he stuffs a whopper in his gut. no success to be had there at all.

the way you talk about your kung fu experience has me wondering if you haven't been taken for a ride and are actually studying some kind of worthless crap that you eventually figured out was worthless but mistakenly have applied to all tcma with your opinion. lol

plus, the fact that you said you could learn a longfist form in an hour makes me wonder what kind of crappy longfist takes and hour to learn.

I think you've been fleeced. So, make your way to my private kwoon when you can and we will get to work on correcting your sh1tty fraudulent kung fu and replace it with something that really will give you the ass hammer powers you desire.

expect to put in at the very least 1 year of daily effort to get to a point where you've washed away the useless and are able to finally have a working fighting art. :)

[bawang]

lol u mad lol

i can learn a longfist in 1 hour because i used to train until 3 am. and memorize entier boxing manuals. i have mor deication than u.

[Drake]

lol u mad lol

i can learn a longfist in 1 hour because i used to train until 3 am. and memorize entier boxing manuals.

My first instructor was a white guy. He'd just toss me random crap and told me to defend myself. Then he'd attack. Stand up AND groundfighting. You learn a lot through pain.

He never charged me.

[bawang]

nice. that guy msut b badass mang. he teach for free he has honor

[Drake]

nice. that guy msut b badass mang. he teach for free he has honor

That's all he talked about was honor. His kids were trained to fight almost from the moment they could walk.

He used to randomly attend classes at local schools, and he'd come back and we'd dissect all the bits and pieces of what they taught.

He even had a forge in his backyard.

[sanjuro_ronin]

that's all he talked about was honor. His kids were trained to fight almost from the moment they could walk.

He used to randomly attend classes at local schools, and he'd come back and we'd dissect all the bits and pieces of what they taught.

He even had a forge in his backyard.

o l d s c h o o l !
:d

[Drake]

One night was apparently "hatchet" night, and we spent all night throwing them. Other nights it was groundfighting, other nights it was about close range weapon disarming techniques. Sometimes he'd just tell me to attack him, and would proceed to kick my ass.

He once told me red belts are red because they should be stained red with blood by that time. I recall bleeding much earlier in my training.

[David Jamieson]

lol u mad lol

i can learn a longfist in 1 hour because i used to train until 3 am. and memorize entier boxing manuals. i have mor deication than u.

I will teach you a north shaolin set that is a beginners set and I guarantee you will not get it in one hour. lol

I'm not mad, I'm calling you a liar. :p

[Drake]

I will teach you a north shaolin set that is a beginners set and I guarantee you will not get it in one hour. lol

I'm not mad, I'm calling you a liar. :p

I don't think he's lying. Once you get the basics, the stuff afterwards is learned fairly quickly.

[MightyB]

I want to get a black belt in BJJ so I can charge $90 or more per month for people to attend class twice a week and $100 an hour for private lessons. Plus - all that free marketing from MMA events means you'd have full classes... it's a sweet deal. I should've done that instead of college.

[David Jamieson]

I don't think he's lying. Once you get the basics, the stuff afterwards is learned fairly quickly.

:rolleyes:

Nay. It takes time to learn something properly. I have seen guys, some of whom were very gifted in their ability to leran and understand techniques to the level of proper expression of same. But never, never ever in one hour cna they pick up 50 techniques, string them together and properly express.

Unless bawang is superman, he's lying, or he is satisfied with half remembered poorly structured stuff. lol

I mean there are a lot of guys out there who "think" they know and understand but it takes all of a hot minute watching to see that that is not true at all.

In the end, it's not important. Out of all the stuff we are taught in martial arts, the most usable stuff we have is a very small amount of techniques.

I see a lot of absolute crud passed off as chinese martial arts though. Lots of it. It is really hard to find people who know wtf they are doing and wtf they are talking about.

even here. lol.

[bawang]

bro, i did horse stance punching for 3 years when i was i kid. then i trained one posture a month.

[hskwarrior]

bro, i did horse stance punching for 3 years when i was i kid. then i trained one posture a month.

Right!!!! When i first joined my sifu's school we did horse stance training and learned the first three moves from a form over the next month or two. Over and over and over and over again. luckily we liked to spar and i already had martial art background before gung fu as a new student sparring was pretty fun for me.

[Lucas]

you guys are both frostbacks, why dont you meet up at the polar bears and battle!

[David Jamieson]

bro, i did horse stance punching for 3 years when i was i kid. then i trained one posture a month.

that's a crappy way to train. lol

[MysteriousPower]

:rolleyes:

Nay. It takes time to learn something properly. I have seen guys, some of whom were very gifted in their ability to leran and understand techniques to the level of proper expression of same. But never, never ever in one hour cna they pick up 50 techniques, string them together and properly express.

Unless bawang is superman, he's lying, or he is satisfied with half remembered poorly structured stuff. lol

I mean there are a lot of guys out there who "think" they know and understand but it takes all of a hot minute watching to see that that is not true at all.

In the end, it's not important. Out of all the stuff we are taught in martial arts, the most usable stuff we have is a very small amount of techniques.

I see a lot of absolute crud passed off as chinese martial arts though. Lots of it. It is really hard to find people who know wtf they are doing and wtf they are talking about.

even here. lol.

You learned 50 techniques in one hour and was able to string them together...like doing a form? Great training, David. Keep it up. You are on the way to developing massive amounts of skill doing funny movements in the air.

[David Jamieson]

You learned 50 techniques in one hour and was able to string them together...like doing a form? Great training, David. Keep it up. You are on the way to developing massive amounts of skill doing funny movements in the air.

What have you done? What do you have against learning anything? I'm sure that might be reflected in your own training. :)

[YouKnowWho]

bro, i did horse stance punching for 3 years when i was i kid. then i trained one posture a month.
I did "1 step 3 punches" for 3 years when I was 11 years old. I then spent 6 months on every single move that I trained. It's very difficult to force yourself to use just a single move in the next 6 months.

[sanjuro_ronin]

bro, i did horse stance punching for 3 years when i was i kid. then i banged one prostitute a month.

Fixed that for you :D

[Lucas]

bro, i did horse stance punching for 3 years when i was i kid. then i banged one prostitute per hour.

fixed it properly.

[bawang]

lol noe i dont bang psotitue.

my frend is muay thai tranny, i bang bang bang in anoos free on thursdays

[hskwarrior]

my frend is muay thai tranny, i bang bang bang in anoos free on thursdays

Does he bang your anoos too or just you his? dang das just nashtay....LOL

[bawang]

whats nasty about sodomizing a man who surgically removes his balls and takes estrogen injections every month? man your such a weirdo.


the lesson here is: just like a tranny struts around thinking its all right, kung fu teachers strut around being proud of making easy sleazy money from kung fu. both is oblivious to social norms and cultural cues. the tranny to american ones, the kung fu guy to chinese ones.

[hskwarrior]

whats nasty about sodomizing a man who surgically removes his balls and takes estrogen injections every month? man your such a weirdo.

cause he only removed the bawls....he still has pen1s.......but hey, how else do gay kung fu people get to realistically train to use their staffs. :o

[bawang]

the joke on u is american society sees kung fu guy and tranny at the same level. as freakshows and laughingstocks.

[hskwarrior]

the joke on u is american society sees kung fu guy and tranny at the same level. as freakshows and laughingstocks.

yeah...i should shoot myself after hanging myself but not before jumping on off a 1000 foot cliff into the waiting jaws of a great white shark.

BYE EVERYONE :(

[bawang]

ya mang. kung fu guys r losers.

*jacks off to bjj vs kung fu video

when the kung fu guys arm broke, i ejaculated.

[hskwarrior]

ya mang. kung fu guys r losers.

i'm sorry :( i'm so ashamed

[-N-]

His kids were trained to fight almost from the moment they could walk.

I trained my kids to punch and kick me in the face before they even could walk.

My Sihing trained my dog to avoid leg sweeps and staff strikes just for laughs.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

In light of the other thread, from a teacher's perspective, what's a reasonable amount you are willing to charge a student for you time, knowledge, and effort in teaching your system?

In some cases a teacher has more than just a TEACHER role to play. He or she can be a psychiatrist, baby sitter, and problem solver amonst other things.

So how much is teaching worth to you?

At this point, I would teach for free if the right people came along. One the other hand, if the not right people want to learn from me, no amount will get me all that motivated.

*IF* I teach again (and that is a big If), I am looking for a small tight nit group, rather than anything commercially sustainable.