BJJ takes down Kung fu every time

[MysteriousPower]

Just kidding, guys!

Does everyone who is NOT a pure kung fu guy automatically assume that a bjj can and will take down ANYONE who has no bjj training?

I get the feeling many mma people feel this way and am just taking an informal tally.

Do the bjjers here feel like they can take down most Kung fu guys who have no ground experience?(just to reiterate)

[TenTigers]

take down, or dominate on the ground? They're two different things.
A SC guy used to throws, sweeps and takedowns is very hard to take down.

[YouKnowWho]

Do the bjjers here feel like they can take down most Kung fu guys who have no ground experience?(just to reiterate)

A senior SC brother of mine in NYC once told people in public that if anybody could take him down just once, he would give that person a black belt. That was 30 years ago. He is over 70 years old now, still nobody had ever received a black belt from him by using that short cut.

There is always a lucky punch but there will never be a lucky throw. You will need throwing skill to take your opponent down. The ground skill is not going to help your throwing skill or anti-throwing skill. It's very easy to test that. All you need to do is to enter any SC tournament which is available every year in Ohio and Texas.

[MysteriousPower]

take down, or dominate on the ground? They're two different things.
A SC guy used to throws, sweeps and takedowns is very hard to take down.

Dominating on the ground for the bjj guy is a given. I am talking about takedowns on trained Kung fu strikers who may have had experience with tcma grappling from...eagle claw style.

Do the people from the bjj crowd have the mentality that you will be able to do it with little effort since Kung fu man has no bjj experience? Have you ever had trouble taking down a Kung fuer who had no formal grappling experience?

[YouKnowWho]

Have you ever had trouble taking down a Kung fuer who had no formal grappling experience?

This is a complete different question. First you asked about no ground experience. Now you ask about no grappling experience. No ground experience is not the same as no grappling experience.

I also assume you mean "grappling = throwing".

[Violent Designs]

BJJ people have pretty shoddy takedowns compared to wrestlers, shuai jiao or judo guys. I mean, their entire game is newaza, not the "takedown" part.

Now of course they will be able to takedown someone with ZERO takedown defense.

But a pure BJJ guy will not have the same caliber of takedowns as wrestlers or people who train to train all day.

[YouKnowWho]

Is it easier for a TCMA guy to take down a BJJ guy or the other way around? Just because most TCMA guys don't like to do down, they will fight as hard as they can. Just because BJJ guys love to go down, they don't intend to fight as hard.

Will it be easier to take off a prostitute's pants or a virgin's pants?

[MysteriousPower]

This is a complete different question. First you asked about no ground experience. Now you ask about no grappling experience. No ground experience is not the same as no grappling experience.

I also assume you mean "grappling = throwing".

I meant grappling as in chinna. Not shua.

I love it how all the tcma are answering when I was asking the bjjers.

Here is the deal: For those that practice bjj heavily do you feel that you will easiky be able to take non-bjj people down easily? Do you feel like it is predestined due to their lack of ground capabilities? I am just trying to find out how many believe all the hype(if it is hype). "I'll just take him down to the ground and he won't be able to do anything.". "Yeah, he's good until he gets taken taken down.".

[MysteriousPower]

BJJ people have pretty shoddy takedowns compared to wrestlers, shuai jiao or judo guys. I mean, their entire game is newaza, not the "takedown" part.

Now of course they will be able to takedown someone with ZERO takedown defense.

But a pure BJJ guy will not have the same caliber of takedowns as wrestlers or people who train to train all day.

That is what I meant, violent designs. So you believe that a bjj person can take down someone who has no takedown defense? You do not believe that other tactics could be used like continuous hard striking? A person with no takedown defense is completely helpless all the time against the big bad bjjer?

This is an exercise in devil's advocate.

[YouKnowWho]

I meant grappling as in chinna. Not shua.

I didn't know this definition until today. I have always assumed that striker is someone who likes to punch, and grappler is someone who likes to throw.

You still need to take someone down in order to apply your ground game. Where will the throwing skill fit into the grappling definition? Are you saying that a grappler doesn't need throwing skill?

[MysteriousPower]

I didn't know this definition until today. I have always assumed that striker is someone who likes to punch, and grappler is someone who likes to throw.

You still need to take someone down in order to apply your ground game. Where will the throwing skill fit into the grappling definition? Are you saying that a grappler doesn't need throwing skill?

People who train shuai jiao are different than most Kung fu. Most Kung fu does not throw well even though people on here will tell me otherwise. Whenever you post you always bring up sc like it is normal when it is only normal for people that do sc.

Stay in topic and stop asking questions like you are someone who has brain damage from being taken down and then ground and pounded for too long.

[bawang]

qinna just means clinching

[David Jamieson]

qinna just means clinching

seizing I think is more definitive, but yeah.

[bawang]

grapple means "to seize something and hold it firmly" from dictionary

qinna doesnt look like grappling because chinese people who dont fight are afraid of touching another man so it has been corrupted.

qinna stance
http://muye24ki.com/muye24ki/pic/22_gyunbub_09.gif

[TenTigers]

People who train shuai jiao are different than most Kung fu. Most Kung fu does not throw well even though people on here will tell me otherwise. Whenever you post you always bring up sc like it is normal when it is only normal for people that do sc.

Stay in topic and stop asking questions like you are someone who has brain damage from being taken down and then ground and pounded for too long.
dang man, for someone as ignorant as you on TCMA, you sure speak with alot of arrogance-especially to those whose experience and knowledge is far greater than your own.
Nobody can answer you because you don't even have enough knowledge to pose a logical question.
How long have you been studying to have learned nothing?
Methinks at this point, your problem isn't with TCMA, or its methods, or teachers.

[EarthDragon]

chin na fa refers to seizing or locking a joint more than grappling

[bawang]

because chinese people are afriad to touch more than arm length. especially in the south where h0m0sexuality was common, touching another man makes peopel uncomfortable.

[EarthDragon]

LOl bawang, you crack me up...

[bawang]

the ming novel "the gay knight" has the captain doing a lot of qinna. so in the past qinna must have looked a lot like modern grappling.

[SPJ]

if you are fighting multiple opponents, you want to fight stand up and end the fight fast

what if there are sharps on the ground

mano a mano

one man against one man on the ground

do you see the army fight this way?

if you are on the ground, the other opponents will kick you and punch you, while your arms are not defending but holding on to only one opponent.

so the question is what if you are outnumbered---

[bawang]

do you see the army fight this way?


yes usa army combatives

chin na fa refers to seizing or locking a joint more than grappling

qinna has armbar and kneebar so i dont see whats different, other than qinna focus standing up and many people are afraid to touch each other so it gets distorted.

in longfist qinna stance means clinch. "qinna stance neutralizes leg attacks" qinna is stand up clinching and grapplnig

[Merryprankster]

if you are fighting multiple opponents, you want to fight stand up and end the fight fast

what if there are sharps on the ground

mano a mano

one man against one man on the ground

do you see the army fight this way?

if you are on the ground, the other opponents will kick you and punch you, while your arms are not defending but holding on to only one opponent.

so the question is what if you are outnumbered---

I have a black belt in BJJ. I have wrestling experience. If I am on the ground, and other people are trying to kick and punch me, that really sucks.

But guess what I've got? 15 years of experience about how NOT TO BE IMMOBILIZED ON THE GROUND.

I can get out from underneath a 300 lbs dude trying to hold me down. I can get up. I can run away.

Or maybe I'll get my ass kicked. But there aren't a lot of people who can hold me down. That sounds like a good thing to me.

[TenTigers]

good point, Bawang.
Look at the supine armbar. Probably developed by some h0rny guy trying to get a girl to touch his crotch.

[bawang]

merryprankster a black belt in bjj takes skil and dedication you are a elite warior a man with honor a tru martial artist i am crying i am proud of u man

[Merryprankster]

merryprankster a black belt in bjj takes skil and dedication you are a elite warior a man with honor a tru martial artist i am crying i am proud of u man

Yeah, that's true. Some times I stare at my black belt, and start to cry a little, while I touch myself.

Helio would be proud.

[bawang]

can i send you $100 by western union as a token of my respect and admiration
pls man



i saw the same arm bars and locks in qinna and when my bjj friend showed me. the only difference is qinna doesnt work the way people teach it, standing straight up rigidly and only touching at the forearm.

qinna does not work when you try to make a "bridge" this is the number one mistake kung fu people make. they think qinna is someone gives a limp jab, you sxtend your hand and make a bridge, and pinch his biceps. NO NO NO

[Merryprankster]

can i send you $100 by western union as a token of my respect and admiration
pls man

Sweet! The onanism was listed as one of the benefits of BJJ, but I didn't know I was going to get free money.

I will use it to buy more pictures of Helio.

[MysteriousPower]

dang man, for someone as ignorant as you on TCMA, you sure speak with alot of arrogance-especially to those whose experience and knowledge is far greater than your own.
Nobody can answer you because you don't even have enough knowledge to pose a logical question.
How long have you been studying to have learned nothing?
Methinks at this point, your problem isn't with TCMA, or its methods, or teachers.

The question I posed is not logical because it is based on the feelings of bjj people.

****I edited this post because tentigers is a nice guy and I did not mean it towards him.***

[Knifefighter]

Just kidding, guys!

Does everyone who is NOT a pure kung fu guy automatically assume that a bjj can and will take down ANYONE who has no bjj training?

I get the feeling many mma people feel this way and am just taking an informal tally.

Do the bjjers here feel like they can take down most Kung fu guys who have no ground experience?(just to reiterate)

If by pure kung fu you mean someone who doesn't practice takedown defense against fully resisting opponents who have some skill in takedowns, then, yes, absolutely.

[EarthDragon]

mysterious pwer


We would get along here a lot better if you did not pass judgement on me through your own arrogance. Your experience and knowledge is far greater than mine? How so?
perhaps people have an opinion of your lack of knowlege based on the questions you ask, the beliefs you have and the facts that you are not aware of.
not trying to be mean, but you ask questions and comment on thisgs that even beginners should know.

[YouKnowWho]

Stay in topic and stop asking questions like...
You started this thread and this was your 1st post.


... who have no "ground" experience...

and this was your 4th post.


... who had no formal "grappling" experience?

You have changed your question from your 1st post to your 4th post. I just wanted to ask which subject that you wanted to discuss, and you asked me to:

- stay in topic, and
- stop asking questions.

Is it OK for you BJJ guys to assume that all TCMA guys has no "ground" experience and no "grappling" experience, but it's not OK for our TCMA guys to assume that you BJJ guys have no "throwing" experience?

You came to a TCMA forum and started a thread, "BJJ takes down Kung fu every time" and you expect that all TCMA guys will respond, "You are 100% right there. We TCMA guys suck big time. Long live Helio Gracie, and Long live BJJ!"

Sorry that you won't get that kind of response here and that's for sure.

[Knifefighter]

Is it OK for you BJJ guys to assume that all TCMA guys has no "ground" experience and no "grappling" experience, but it's not OK for our TCMA guys to assume that you BJJ guys have no "throwing" experience?

You came to a TCMA forum and started a thread, "BJJ takes down Kung fu every time" and you expect that all TCMA guys will respond, "You are 100% right there. We TCMA guys suck big time. Long live Helio Gracie, and Long live BJJ!"

Sorry that you won't get that kind of response here and that's for sure.

I think that the original question was for BJJ guys.

And I don't think most BJJ guys would have a problem with TCMA people assuming that a pure BJJ practitioner will not have great throws.

The philosophy of pure BJJ is to not worry as much about getting the throw or takedown, but to focus more on finishing on the ground.

[EarthDragon]

YKW
QUOTE]You came to a TCMA forum and started a thread, "BJJ takes down Kung fu every time" and you expect that all TCMA guys will respond, "You are 100% right there. [/QUOTE]

you will find that for some reason a few morons out there like to start trouble by loggin onto the kung fu forum and belittleing kung fu, they actualy dont want a answer or qa discussion , they do it just gto be an a s s hole .... I dont get it either pretty sad life if thats how they get thier kicks and this is thier entetainment.

BJJ stick to the BJJ websites
MMA stick to the MMA websites

[YouKnowWho]

I think that the original question was for BJJ guys.
Do you think the following discussion will happen in a Judo forum?

A: Do the boxers here feel like they can knock down most Judoka who have no boxing experience?
B: I'm a Judoka and I don't agree with you.
A: I love it how all the Judoka are answering when I was asking the boxers.
B: But this is a Judo forum...

[EarthDragon]

LMAO...... ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm NO!

[MysteriousPower]

I think that the original question was for BJJ guys.

And I don't think most BJJ guys would have a problem with TCMA people assuming that a pure BJJ practitioner will not have great throws.

The philosophy of pure BJJ is to not worry as much about getting the throw or takedown, but to focus more on finishing on the ground.

Atleast one person understood the point of this thread.

[MysteriousPower]

mysterious pwer

perhaps people have an opinion of your lack of knowlege based on the questions you ask, the beliefs you have and the facts that you are not aware of.
not trying to be mean, but you ask questions and comment on thisgs that even beginners should know.

So by your logic I guess any beginner would know that a bjj person could easily take down any Kung fu guy who has not had relevant training. Read the first post and see how you proved it without anyone but knifefighter answering the actual question.

When you lack knowledge you ask a question. I was trying to find out what people who actually studied bjj thought.

[Violent Designs]

Sweet! The onanism was listed as one of the benefits of BJJ, but I didn't know I was going to get free money.

I will use it to buy more pictures of Helio.

STOP MASTURBATING TO HELIO MAN.













sakuraba is crying in his dreams

[EarthDragon]

When you lack knowledge you ask a question. I was trying to find out what people who actually studied bjj thought.
THEN ASK IT ON A BJJ WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

do people not get this? WTF? log onto a dancing website. click on a tap dance board aska question about ballet............. you will get ballet dancers tryin to be nice and answering the question............... but if you really want to find out the answer then perhaps you shoud log onto the tap dance board.... this isnt diffacult to understand MP. I am beign nice here but geez you seem to have a comprehansion disability

[YouKnowWho]

grapple means "to seize something and hold it firmly" from dictionary.

I have tried to find the relationship between "grappling" and "throwing". I found out that "throwing" is indeed part of the "grappling" but just not emphasized in MMA.

So grappling = grip fight + clinching + joint locking + throwing + ground work.

Just found this clip. It may help us in this discussion. At 1.18, the guy used a beautiful "shoulder throw" to start his ground game. The most interest part of this clip is when his opponent got his leg, he got back on his feet and regain his balance right way. He not only has the throwing skill. He also has strong resistence against throw.

This futher prove that "throwing" skill still have an important place in MMA if you spend time to train it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg8O9dyB5io

[ShaolinDan]

YKW, Nice clip. Very clean.
I have a question though...In my school we call that a shoulder throw, but it's the only place I've learned throwing terminology. ...Are there a lot of places out there that consider it hip throw? ( I can see why, obviously the hip is still involved.) Just wondering.

[YouKnowWho]

You are right! It's a shoulder throw. It was just my typo. The hip throw will require either "waist hold" or "underhook". None are shown in this clip.

[Hardwork108]

you will find that for some reason a few morons out there like to start trouble by loggin onto the kung fu forum and belittleing kung fu,

I would humbly say that there are more than a few morons. Sometimes it feels like most of the people posting here are MMA knuckleheads, who lost their way in internet land....LOL!



they actualy dont want a answer or qa discussion , they do it just gto be an a s s hole ....

IMHO, most of them were a s s holes, long before they ever signed into this site. I guess they just come to us for confirmation of that very fact...LOL!



I dont get it either pretty sad life if thats how they get thier kicks and this is thier entetainment.

I guess if they have had enough men pushing against their nuts during their ground game training, then they kind of "lose interest", in dating women, to enchance their lives and get their kicks....;)


BJJ stick to the BJJ websites
MMA stick to the MMA websites

I always suggest to the MMA and BJJ guys that if they decide to post in this, a TCMA, forum then they should do so by respectfully giving their opinions and/or asking polite questions.

This way, they may end up learning new things and enhancing their (very poor) knowledge of the TCMAs.... :)

[Hardwork108]

This futher prove that "throwing" skill still have an important place in MMA if you spend time to train it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg8O9dyB5io

Great clip.

[ShaolinDan]

Thanks YKW. Terminology is one of the things I get to learn on this forum. It's not a big part of my training, but it's nice to know when talking to other MAs.

[Knifefighter]

This futher prove that "throwing" skill still have an important place in MMA if you spend time to train it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg8O9dyB5io


Of course it can, that is pretty much a no-brainer.

[hskwarrior]

fu@k BJJ....they can't do THIS!!!!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BaWeTAWt3VI/RpNiA5ywwPI/AAAAAAAACTA/_c6VCUMGjhI/s400/Iron-Crotch-Kung-Fu-2.jpg

[Dragonzbane76]

that's one hell of a way to level out the yard. ouch. :p

[Hardwork108]

fu@k BJJ....they can't do THIS!!!!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BaWeTAWt3VI/RpNiA5ywwPI/AAAAAAAACTA/_c6VCUMGjhI/s400/Iron-Crotch-Kung-Fu-2.jpg

They can't do this is because they don't have the b@lls! :D

[hskwarrior]

They can't do this is because they don't have the b@lls!

right....only Kung Fu man have the KAHONES (balls)

[TenTigers]

right....only Kung Fu man have the KAHONES (balls)
I think you meant cajones....:D

[Hardwork108]

I think you meant cajones....:D

The word you are looking for is "cojones".

Cajones, refers to items of furniture, such as drawers, etc.

So, I guess the BJJ guys will have some cajones somewhere, unless they are homeless, that is...:D

[hskwarrior]

bunch of spelling Nazi's LOLOLOL

[Lucas]

fu@k BJJ....they can't do THIS!!!!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BaWeTAWt3VI/RpNiA5ywwPI/AAAAAAAACTA/_c6VCUMGjhI/s400/Iron-Crotch-Kung-Fu-2.jpg

lol man that post made me laugh so hard

[bawang]

that's one hell of a way to level out the yard. ouch. :p

it is a weapon. he is the shaolin human steam roller. it good for fighting multiple enemies.

[hskwarrior]

http://www.pointsincase.com/files/u46/gay_bjj.jpg

[Hardwork108]

bunch of spelling Nazi's LOLOLOL

You just sounded like Dragonzbane76...:eek:

[hskwarrior]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0911/for-some-reason-submission-move-timmy-reason-anal-secks-wres-demotivational-poster-1258174081.jpg

[Hardwork108]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0911/for-some-reason-submission-move-timmy-reason-anal-secks-wres-demotivational-poster-1258174081.jpg

And talking of the devil.....LOL! :D

[Dragonzbane76]

You just sounded like Dragonzbane76...

Not on your best of days. :eek: