Interesting kung fu training from Colombia

[Hardwork108]

Have a look at this video clip from Colombia. Opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37z_XMISA4g&feature=related

[Dragonzbane76]

turning his back with flashy kicks to much. Not bad sparring just to much wasted movements. Why stop it on the ground let him fight his way back up. Was this a test of some sort? What's up with the ref. stopping the fights and tapping on his neck??

Anyways, overall I counted like 5-6 times the guy turned his back while throwing that spinning side thrust and got taken down. He started to become predictable at the start of every fight throwing it.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Sparring wasn't too bad, like DB mentioned, the one guy turned his back way too often with that spinning side thrust. One of the problems you fall into with spin kicks is not setting them up. After you do it 3 or 4 times with the same set up like this guy did, it's not hard to see it coming and counter.

Also, hands were too far down on both of these guys. Wasted movement not only does nothing to throw off the opponent, but burns energy and tires one out quickly. Keep the hands up in a good guard position, and move the head rather than the hands. Waving your hands around in the air doesn't do anything to protect your head, but good head movement will throw an opponent off and make targeting much more difficult.

I also feel that many of these hands down stances come from pulled punches to the head. Anyone who has felt a couple stiff jabs from someone who knows how to throw them would quickly abandon the hands down method and start working with a better guard.

All in all, not bad overall. The guy looked sh**it a**ss tired and it looked to be a test so often times you won't put on the best performance after enduring this kind of thing for 4 or 5 hours, at least that's how we do it in Pai Lum.;)

[EarthDragon]

a little better than some of the stuff I see out there claiming to be kung fu. As said no turn back unless you have both oppononets arms locked and are about to throw. also I feel all fighting should not stop until someone taps. when we spar, if studens get a take down or sweep or a trip or caught kick whatever, we go the the ground then we ground fight until someone taps. Any other way of training will be inaccurate version of what can happpen on the street, there will be no one there to stop the fight... unless the cops are called then I teach run fu

[Frost]

the 1 on 1 sparring was not really that good, it suffered from the usual problems alot of TCMA has, lack of proper protective equipment meant an unwillingness to engage in actual anything like hard sparring: so neither wanted to or was used to actually punching the head hard which meant neither was used to taking shots and as such turned their backs when it did get heavy, both held their hands too low because of the above and lack of grappling menat too many kicks and side on stances

the 2 on 1 stuff was better,

[SanHeChuan]

I don't think there was a clearly defined goal/ strategy. They had some techniques but they didn’t know how to put them together.

[EarthDragon]

frost,

the 1 on 1 sparring was not really that good, it suffered from the usual problems alot of TCMA has, lack of proper protective equipment meant an unwillingness to engage in actual anything like hard sparring: so neither wanted to or was used to actually punching the head hard which meant neither was used to taking shots and as such turned their backs when it did get heavy, both held their hands too low because of the above and lack of grappling

and can you tell me what usual problems with TCMA is???

MMA you think its good becuse they dont wear protective gear either, what makes it better?
I fought for years full on with a cup and a mouth piece. even illegal pit fights granted when I was learning/sparring I used to wear chin pads head and foot gear but this was when i was 16 in crappy tournements fighting for trophies. Last time I check the UFC wears gloves cup and mouthpiece.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Too much posturing, not enough power, their enthusiasim was good, but their attempts at throws were pretty bad.
The lack of safety gear, like Frost mentioned, made it less realistic and honest than it could have been ( there seemed to be rules against head shots).

[Frost]

frost,


and can you tell me what usual problems with TCMA is???

MMA you think its good becuse they dont wear protective gear either, what makes it better?
I fought for years full on with a cup and a mouth piece. even illegal pit fights granted when I was learning/sparring I used to wear chin pads head and foot gear but this was when i was 16 in crappy tournements fighting for trophies. Last time I check the UFC wears gloves cup and mouthpiece.

Is English your first language, not being funny I am having a hard time following your post here so I thought id check?

the usual problem I referred to was not using proper protective equipment in sparring, proper sized gloves mouth piece etc, I have seen too many clips like this where because they don’t wear boxing gloves they don’t actually hit to the head or make real contact on the odd occasion the do, which allows for too many bad habits that were seen in this clip: namely low hands, high chins, no head movement and an inability to react under pressure (seen here as the guy keeps turning his back when the pressure is on)

does this apply to all TCMA no but alot of the clips out there have this problem

[Dragonzbane76]

So ED do you think that most MMA guys spar without protective gear when they go round?

[mickey]

Greetings,

I did not see much in the areas of confidence and foundation. The techniques that were used showed a serious lack of refinement.


mickey

[Hardwork108]

Thank you all for your comments. I don't really have any strong opinions about this school, other than the fact that they are at least trying to be functional.

I have no idea about this school, nor their style, other than the fact that they are called Dragon Amarillo, "Yellow Dragon". I might research them further when I have more time.

Meanwhile, here is another video clip of them. This includes multiple opponent fighting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbngB-aZOgU&feature=related





.

[taai gihk yahn]

awesome pants; where can I get a pair like those?

[David Jamieson]

not bad, kind of weird as far as clothing goes. I mean, who dresses like that?

and if you are going to go full contact, a couple of safety precautions to that end are always good.

if you are bare knuckle fighting, then that's great, but the intention needs to be corrected.

trying to get too fancy will get your map rearranged too, so, beware of that. :)

[Knifefighter]

Thank you all for your comments. I don't really have any strong opinions about this school, other than the fact that they are at least trying to be functional.

Hate to point out the obvious here, but it seems like someone who was one of the few people to have actually studied "real kung fu" would have had a definite and immediate opinion on this. I mean, if you've done the realz, you'd know right away.

[Hardwork108]

awesome pants; where can I get a pair like those?

LOL!

Come to Colombia and you can buy a measured to your specifications, pair of these pants.:D

[Hardwork108]

not bad, kind of weird as far as clothing goes. I mean, who dresses like that?
Well, we don't have many Chinese MA shops here in Colombia, so I guess these guys bought their pants from a local "Cloths for Lesbians" outlet. :D


and if you are going to go full contact, a couple of safety precautions to that end are always good.
Hey man, this is Colombia, what "safety measures"? LOL!


if you are bare knuckle fighting, then that's great, but the intention needs to be corrected.
Lets see what you can do when four Colombian guys are kicking at you while you are on the floor.:D


trying to get too fancy will get your map rearranged too, so, beware of that. :)

One man's "fancyness" is another man's life saver!;)

[EarthDragon]

frost frost frost,
I really hope your kidding here....


I have seen too many clips like this where because they don’t wear boxing gloves they don’t actually hit to the head or make real contact on the odd occasion the do, which allows for too many bad habits that were seen in this clip:

Ok so let me get this straight....... you trying to tell MA/kung fu/karate etc etc guys they should wear boxing gloves?????????????????

LMAO, your the reason wanker is such a popular term in U.K

next we can tell golfers to wear helmets so if the ball bounces off a tree they wont sustain injury.
I dont knwo what lack of understanding you have of MA but last time I checked we need to use our HANDS!

[Hardwork108]

frost,frost,frost.....

....LMAO, your the reason wanker is such a popular term in U.K
That made me laugh out loud.....LOL!

Frost is also one of the reasons why "kung fu-clueless knucklehead MMA-ist", is such a popular term here in the forums....;)

[EarthDragon]

hardwork,

he actually suggested wearing boxing gloves!!!!!!!!!!!!

yea thats what I want to learn how to fight in, so next time I need to grab my opponet to trap lock seize or throw, I cant becuse I have 20oz of padded puffy things laced onto my hands WTF is wrong with this dude?

I corect my students all the time to fight with thier hands open. you only form a fist right before impact, even my 5 years olds know this.

[Knifefighter]

That made me laugh out loud.....LOL!

Frost is also one of the reasons why "kung fu-clueless knucklehead MMA-ist", is such a popular term here in the forums....;)

I think this thread also proved you are clueless about "real" kung fu.

[EarthDragon]

LOL this is hilarious someone just PM this to me as said by knifefighter form another thread

Quote: from me
Frost on the other hand just told the forum on the "columbian thread" that martial artists should wear boxing gloves.. LOL I kid you not!

this was knife response


That would be a good point that he made. MMA fighters who don't fight with boxing gloves train with them because it's the most effective way to train punching.

OK now are knife and frost twins? or are they the same person.... there is no way 2 people in their right mind would suggest that martial artists should train with boxing gloves on, but then tell the board everyday that they train for REAL combat!
could you imagine gettign into a fight and saying wait I need my boxing gloves! ROTFL

[Knifefighter]

LOL this is hilarious someone just PM this to me as said by knifefighter form another thread

Quote: from me
Frost on the other hand just told the forum on the "columbian thread" that martial artists should wear boxing gloves.. LOL I kid you not!

this was knife response


OK now are knife and frost twins? or are they the same person.... there is no way 2 people in their right mind would suggest that martial artists should train with boxing gloves on, but then tell the board everyday that they train for REAL combat!
could you imagine gettign into a fight and saying wait I need my boxing gloves! ROTFL

LOL @ the still pretending not to read my posts. Yeah, people are sending you emails of my posts.

Earth to Dragon- Here's an announcement: Training with boxing gloves & headgear is how modern training does hard, full contact training for striking with the head as a target.

Somebody "email" this guy and tell him thanks for proving, once again, how clueless he is.

[Hardwork108]

hardwork,

he actually suggested wearing boxing gloves!!!!!!!!!!!!

yea thats what I want to learn how to fight in, so next time I need to grab my opponet to trap lock seize or throw, I cant becuse I have 20oz of padded puffy things laced onto my hands WTF is wrong with this dude?

I corect my students all the time to fight with thier hands open. you only form a fist right before impact, even my 5 years olds know this.

Lets both us look at the positive side of all of this and appreciate the fact that the MMA community in this forum never fails to provide us with plenty of laughs. ;)

[EarthDragon]

So true.
OK gotta run, going to put some mittens on and tie nymph flies for fishing tomorrow.

This makes as much sense to me as wearing boxing gloves, theres just somethings that you need your hands open for.

Im sure if anyone that does ground fighting would be happy to be on the floor batting away if you had to make someone submit wearing boxing gloves, or are you supposed to fight stand up with gloves so you can punch and train FOR REAL againt a resisting opponent and then when you get a take down , you stop and untie them and then start to fight agian? lets submit this idea to the UFC,

[Knifefighter]

So true.
OK gotta run, going to put some mittens on and tie nymph flies for fishing tomorrow.

This makes as much sense to me as wearing boxing gloves, theres just somethings that you need your hands open for.

Either people put gloves on and go full contact, or they don't do much, if any full contact.

It's pretty obvious which camp you fall into.

[Syn7]

So true.
OK gotta run, going to put some mittens on and tie nymph flies for fishing tomorrow.

This makes as much sense to me as wearing boxing gloves, theres just somethings that you need your hands open for.

Im sure if anyone that does ground fighting would be happy to be on the floor batting away if you had to make someone submit wearing boxing gloves, or are you supposed to fight stand up with gloves so you can punch and train FOR REAL againt a resisting opponent and then when you get a take down , you stop and untie them and then start to fight agian? lets submit this idea to the UFC,

so what? you let people punch you in the head without gloves? how else do you train full contact punches to the head? it doesnt have to be 16oz... even if you just use 4 or 6... you wont last long taking full shots to the head with no gloves... and if you train hard with quality opponents, you will be getting hit in the head....

[Frost]

frost frost frost,
I really hope your kidding here....


Ok so let me get this straight....... you trying to tell MA/kung fu/karate etc etc guys they should wear boxing gloves?????????????????

LMAO, your the reason wanker is such a popular term in U.K

next we can tell golfers to wear helmets so if the ball bounces off a tree they wont sustain injury.
I dont knwo what lack of understanding you have of MA but last time I checked we need to use our HANDS!

lol at least i'm not called a liar and fraud :)

[Knifefighter]

so what? you let people punch you in the head without gloves? how else do you train full contact punches to the head? it doesnt have to be 16oz... even if you just use 4 or 6... you wont last long taking full shots to the head with no gloves... and if you train hard with quality opponents, you will be getting hit in the head....

Bingo! And then they wonder why we give them a hard time.

Can't wait for his spin on this one. More than likely, he's simply going to avoid it.

[Frost]

LOL this is hilarious someone just PM this to me as said by knifefighter form another thread

Quote: from me
Frost on the other hand just told the forum on the "columbian thread" that martial artists should wear boxing gloves.. LOL I kid you not!

this was knife response


OK now are knife and frost twins? or are they the same person.... there is no way 2 people in their right mind would suggest that martial artists should train with boxing gloves on, but then tell the board everyday that they train for REAL combat!
could you imagine gettign into a fight and saying wait I need my boxing gloves! ROTFL

not only do you having a reading comprehension problem AND an inability to tell the truth but you also seem to have a memory problem, i have never said i train for real combat i said i train MMA for fun and have competed in grappling,

Now lets see i have trained with the following pro fighters on a regular basis over the years: paul daley, andre winner, dan hardy, jimmy wallhead, (to name a few)....can you guess how they do the majority of their sparring.....can you guess how Ross's guys on here do the majority of their sparring for both sanda AND MMA.....

Its pointless holding a conversation with you because you really do seem to have a very low IQ but please tell me how all the pros you train do their sparring?

[Frost]

Bingo! And then they wonder why we give them a hard time.

Can't wait for his spin on this one. More than likely, he's simply going to avoid it.

you mean like he avoided asking for your BJJ cert when others posted how legit you were?

[Hardwork108]

lol at least i'm not called a liar and fraud :)

Of course not. Who would dare accuse an MMA knucklehead who uses Olympic Weight training to train his Internals, a liar and a fraud? LOL!

Man, you come straight out of a cook book! LOL,LOL,LOL!

[EarthDragon]

sny7

so what? you let people punch you in the head without gloves? how else do you train full contact punches to the head? it doesnt have to be 16oz... even if you just use 4 or 6... you wont last long taking full shots to the head with no gloves... and if you train hard with quality opponents, you will be getting hit in the head....

please dont jump on this band wagon too brother, you dont want to be compared and lumped together with knifefighter and frost do you?

its not boxing, you dont train with boxing gloves.nor do you train wearing boxing boots, how are you supposed to fight with your hands in boxing gloves? what reason would you train MMA or any martial arts with boxing gloves on? you cant grab, lock throw seize nothing....this is the stupidist thing I have heard on here and people say some pretty stupid things.

you train is how you fight, you dont punch people in the head there are plenty of softer spots on the body then the skull. now open finger harbinger padded knuclke gloves... yes i wear those as well as a mouth guard from fightdentist.com and a cup. but boxing gloves????? hahaha this shows the level of skilled martail artists on here. I give up



frost


lol at least i'm not called a liar and fraud
LOl by whom you ross and knfiefighter? 3 people i wouldt **** on if they were on fire and you think for a second I care? your post is reminsant of a littel girls response saying ...... I know you are but what am I? this is your best response? at least your not called a liar? ok good night buddy sleep well.
dotn forget to put on your boxing gloves before you pratice martil arts, you dont want to hurt those pretty hands.

[EarthDragon]

hardwork

Of course not. Who would dare accuse an MMA knucklehead who uses Olympic Weight training to train his Internals, a liar and a fraud? LOL!

Man, you come straight out of a cook book! LOL,LOL,LOL!

I think I come on here more to read what frost has to say each day,than check the threads, its gets stupider and stupider. its like those morning funny cartoon saying on the calander to keep a smile on your face all day.

the guy trains grappling but wears boxing gloves! WTF? ohh man you cant make this stuff up

[Frost]

sny7


please dont jump on this band wagon too brother, you dont want to be compared and lumped together with knifefighter and frost do you?

its not boxing, you dont train with boxing gloves.nor do you train wearing boxing boots, how are you supposed to fight with your hands in boxing gloves? for what reason would you train MMA or any martial arts with boxing gloves on? you cant grab, lock throw seize nothing....this is the stupidist thing I have heard on here and people say some pretty stupid things.
you train is how you fight, you dont punch people in the head there are plenty of softer spots on the body then the skull. now open finger harbinger padded knuclke gloves... yes i wear those as well as a mouth guard from fightdentist.com and a cup. but boxing gloves????? hahaha this shows the level of skilled martail artists on here. I give up



frost


LOl by whom you ross and knfiefighter? 3 people i wouldt **** on if they were on fire and you think for a second I care? your post is reminsant of a littel girls response saying ...... I know you are but what am I? this is your best response? at least your not called a liar? ok good night buddy sleep well.
dotn forget to put on your boxing gloves before you pratice martil arts, you dont want to hurt those pretty hands.

the part i underlined shows exactly why you are clueless :)

[Frost]

hardwork


I think I come on here more to read what frost has to say each day,than check the threads, its gets stupider and stupider. its like those morning funny cartoon saying on the calander to keep a smile on your face all day.

the guy trains grappling but wears boxing gloves! WTF? ohh man you cant make this stuff up

and this part shows why you have the IQ of a small child and extremly poor comprehension skills :)

[EarthDragon]

your right Frosty, I should start wearing boxing gloves when I train that will make all the difference in the world, you can at any time admit you said something wrong and absolutly proposteous and take it back.
oh your talking about the typo? its fixed

But if you dont can you pleaseeeeeeee post a clip oif you training your boxing /grappling style and tap some out with these everlast bloxing gloves on pleaseeeeeeeee..... Im beggin you. Do you wear boxing boots on oyur feet so you can kick epoel;l without injuries to your toes? or do you wear basebal cleats for that? come on kid its all I want for Xmas

[Frost]

your right Frosty, I should start wearing boxing gloves when I train that will make all the difference in the world, you can at any time admit you said something wrong and absolutly proposteous and take it back.
oh your talking about the typo? its fixed

But if you dont can you pleaseeeeeeee post a clip oif you training your boxing /grappling style and tap some out with these everlast bloxing gloves on pleaseeeeeeeee..... Im beggin you. Do you wear boxing boots on oyur feet so you can kick epoel;l without injuries to your toes? or do you wear basebal cleats for that? come on kid its all I want for Xmas

Ok I could post clips like that but every gym with any MMA training posted from it shows there guys using boxing gloves for the hard sparring. So I tell you what you post clips of just one MMA club not using boxing gloves in sparring but instead bare hands and I’ll agree with you, hell pos one that just uses small MMA gloves and no boxing gloves and ill be impressed 

out of interest have you ever watched ANY ultimate fighter shows, what do they use the most…MMA gloves or boxing gloves or bare hands

I’ll tell you what lets take a quick poll, everyone here who has trained MMA please state which of the following you train with the most, and if you have actually fought or have guys in your gym that fight which do they use the most, and which you use the most in heavy contact sparring

1) Boxing gloves,
b) 8/10 oz MMA sparring gloves (the bigger padded ones)
c) 4oz MMA gloves
or
d) Bare knuckle,

I’ll go first, in sparring the break down is probably 50/50 between MMA gloves and boxing gloves.

But almost all the hard contact sparring is done with boxing gloves both standing and on the ground, when MMA gloves are used we normally go much lighter and are more technical, obviously the boxing gloves limit grappling and the MMA gloves don’t allow as much contact as is sometimes needed but then all good MMA gyms know how to train around this problem

Anyone else want to chip in?

[David Jamieson]

MMA, the methods it employs in it's sparring etc, is not the only way.

There are a lot of people who simply do it bare knuckle.

I would say to wear a cup is a good idea, and a mouthguard, but are gloves always necessary? or headgear? NO.

sparring is not competition, it's fnding gaps and sealing them, looking for holes and going into them.

sparring is not competitive fighting, perhaps that is why so many people do it poorly? Wrong intention expressed.

anyway, mma in the states is fairly pussified compared to Muay Thai as found in Thailand or Burmese boxing.

mma has unfortunately gotten itself a fratboy image. The elite of the sport are interesting to watch for sure, but the fans are mobbish really and quite often uncouth, ill mannered, tactless, belligerent and well, what you see here when you take a look at some of the posts.

Tell me, how does mma train double bladed weapons? What does it offer for throwing weapons? Situational awareness?

I mean, outside of getting in a ring and fighting competitively, what does an mma path offer a person?

It's not rbsd, it's mma and it is trained specifically towards the ruleset it uses in competition.

Nothing against that, but if it's not your goal to get into a ring and fight, why bother with mma? there isn't anything else offered by it. Is there? I mean what else is there to it that gives it depth and superiority over any other martial art practice?

[Hardwork108]

hardwork


I think I come on here more to read what frost has to say each day,than check the threads, its gets stupider and stupider. its like those morning funny cartoon saying on the calander to keep a smile on your face all day.

True. I will always be thankful to the MMA crowd here in the forum, for all the laughs they have provided me over the years.


the guy trains grappling but wears boxing gloves! WTF? ohh man you cant make this stuff up

I sometimes believe that these MMA-ists' parents used to make them wear boxing gloves at night in bed, in order not to play with themselves during the night. I don't think that this worked either because most of them ended up in this forum and have been participating in a "jerk off" MMA orgy (pardon my French), for as long as I can remember. LOL!

[Dragonzbane76]

are you 2 done su cking each others d!cks. :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

I spar with gloves ( it keeps me from killing people) and I even do a few rounds on the HB with the 16OZ for more of a workout.
I have fought with NO GLOVES in Vale Tudo matches and kyokushin and of course fought with gloves in MT and boxing.
NO training with gloves on the bag is understandable for some, but sparring full contact without gloves makes no sense, sorry.
We would spar without gloves in kyokushin all the time and, of course, there were injuries all the time, but there was a "real man" attitude in kyokushin so gloves were not used except when sparring with head shots.
Of course the funny part is that when the gloves were used, everyone hit so much harder, LMAO !

[Knifefighter]

MMA, the methods it employs in it's sparring etc, is not the only way.

There are a lot of people who simply do it bare knuckle.

I would say to wear a cup is a good idea, and a mouthguard, but are gloves always necessary? or headgear? NO.

sparring is not competition, it's fnding gaps and sealing them, looking for holes and going into them.

sparring is not competitive fighting, perhaps that is why so many people do it poorly? Wrong intention expressed.

anyway, mma in the states is fairly pussified compared to Muay Thai as found in Thailand or Burmese boxing.

mma has unfortunately gotten itself a fratboy image. The elite of the sport are interesting to watch for sure, but the fans are mobbish really and quite often uncouth, ill mannered, tactless, belligerent and well, what you see here when you take a look at some of the posts.

Tell me, how does mma train double bladed weapons? What does it offer for throwing weapons? Situational awareness?

I mean, outside of getting in a ring and fighting competitively, what does an mma path offer a person?

It's not rbsd, it's mma and it is trained specifically towards the ruleset it uses in competition.

Nothing against that, but if it's not your goal to get into a ring and fight, why bother with mma? there isn't anything else offered by it. Is there? I mean what else is there to it that gives it depth and superiority over any other martial art practice?

EVERYONE who does functional training and expects to get good does some sparring full contact with gloves. They have to:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4652956320221491420#

[goju]

you can throw someone with gloves on havent you seen sanda matches?

[EarthDragon]

frost,


out of interest have you ever watched ANY ultimate fighter shows, no unlike you I actually train everyday not get my trainning from TV. perhapos you should put down the remote and actually workout more than once a week


I’ll go first, in sparring the break down is probably 50/50 between MMA gloves and boxing gloves
just answer this simple question how do you perform any techniques besides punching with boxing gloves on? what do you do when you get a takedown stop the fight and take them off?
your little creidt for being a armchair grappler just got taken awy by you standing by your statement. man up train like you fight otherise take up ballet... or boxing, then you can use our gloves for the correct sport.


But almost all the hard contact sparring is done with boxing gloves both standing and on the ground,


when MMA gloves are used we normally go much lighter and are more technical, obviously the boxing gloves limit grappling and the MMA gloves don’t allow as much contact as is sometimes needed but then all good MMA gyms know how to train around this problem

This I can agree with, actually if the first thing I think you have sadi that made some sort of sense, usually your just bitter and attacking for no reason or rhyme, and you never have anythign nice to say its liek you are franks hate the world adn can only gt your jollies by insultiing other people. try to be nice once in a while, its good for the soul

[David Jamieson]

EVERYONE who does functional training and expects to get good does some sparring full contact with gloves. They have to:



so bjj isn't functional training? what are you saying here?

how about GR?

You love yer blanket statements. They are your wooby. :)

[Knifefighter]

you can throw someone with gloves on havent you seen sanda matches?

You can also do submissions with gloves on.

[goju]

You can also do submissions with gloves on.

yes that quite possible too

[David Jamieson]

You can also do submissions with gloves on.

do you wear you gloves out to the pub? got yer cup and mouthguard in at all times?

please explain how that is functional outside of the context it is strictly used in?

plenty of bareknuckle fights went on and still do, vale tudo was notorious for no gear bare knuckle fighting.

i can appreciate the use of gear, I do it myself.

I think you guys are going into black and white mode to merely diss yet another group who are not in your mma paradigm land.

cest la vie.

[EarthDragon]

gojyu

you can throw someone with gloves on havent you seen sanda matches?
yes but only a limited selction of throws can be used, you need to have open finger to perfomr most throws and what do thy do when they get thrown, stand up and start over, becuase you cant possibly fight with boxing gloves on.

just like you cant tie your shoes with mittens. are you people that thick? are we realy having this conversation with more than frost and knife? LOL

[goju]

gojyu

yes but only a limited selction of throws can be used, you need to have open finger to perfomr most throws and what do thy do when they get thrown, stand up and start over, becuase you cant possibly fight with boxing gloves on.

just like you cant tie your shoes with mittens. are you people that thick? are we realy having this conversation with more than frost and knife? LOL

actually you can i sparred a gentleman on this board and i took his back and put him in RNC whilst wearing boxing gloves when we went to the floor

as far as throws are concerned the number of them you an preform with gloved hands are still a wide array, lets not forget leg grabs and trips are still functional with that setting as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir0MWNtMv4&feature=related

[Knifefighter]

do you wear you gloves out to the pub? got yer cup and mouthguard in at all times?

please explain how that is functional outside of the context it is strictly used in?

plenty of bareknuckle fights went on and still do, vale tudo was notorious for no gear bare knuckle fighting.

i can appreciate the use of gear, I do it myself.

I think you guys are going into black and white mode to merely diss yet another group who are not in your mma paradigm land.

cest la vie.

Are you trolling or simply this clueless?

Boxing gloves let you train full contact striking with fewer injuries. This lets you practice longer and harder, which lets you develop more skill and ability.

Same with grappling full force and apply finishing holds vs. not grappling full contact with techniques that are too dangerous (lookup the Judo vs. jujutsu challenge match in which the "safe" judo mashed the "too deadly" jj in the 1800's for an example of this).

As far as functional BJJ, BJJ practices striking on the ground with, guess what? That's right, boxing gloves and headgear.

[Knifefighter]

gojyu

yes but only a limited selction of throws can be used, you need to have open finger to perfomr most throws and what do thy do when they get thrown, stand up and start over, becuase you cant possibly fight with boxing gloves on.

just like you cant tie your shoes with mittens. are you people that thick? are we realy having this conversation with more than frost and knife? LOL

Is ED really this thick? Does he really not understand that you practice some aspects of full contact fighting with boxing gloves on.

ED must be trolling. Nobody is this stupid.

[Frost]

frost,

, no unlike you I actually train everyday not get my trainning from TV. perhapos you should put down the remote and actually workout more than once a week


just answer this simple question how do you perform any techniques besides punching with boxing gloves on? what do you do when you get a takedown stop the fight and take them off?
your little creidt for being a armchair grappler just got taken awy by you standing by your statement. man up train like you fight otherise take up ballet... or boxing, then you can use our gloves for the correct sport.





This I can agree with, actually if the first thing I think you have sadi that made some sort of sense, usually your just bitter and attacking for no reason or rhyme, and you never have anythign nice to say its liek you are franks hate the world adn can only gt your jollies by insultiing other people. try to be nice once in a while, its good for the soul

I was asking because if you knew anything about full contact MMA and the way people train for it you wouldn’t be saying these stupid things and asking silly questions,:)

I have competed in grappling and only train MMA so its arm chair MMA guy if you please……and if we are throwing around credit do I get any for actually competing in a sport and for listing where I train and which pros I know and for admitting what I do and don’t train in..…perhaps you can do the same which MMA gyms have you trained in and which fighters have you trained with :)

Nice…me be nice…..I am generally quite pleasant on here to everyone really apart from those who are either insulting or just being stupid (you manage to fit into both categories well done!)

you can perform throws takedowns, go into ground and pound all which gloves on, you can even apply some locks (but not very well), if you don’t know how to clinch and throw with boxing gloves on I suggest you go to a sanda or thai club, they seem to manage it ok ;)

Is it a trade off? Yes it is but then what you lose in ability to control and lock you gain in your ability to actually spar with resistance and power, and as I said in my comments on the original clip they suffered from not using proper protective equipment in that they are not used to hitting and taking hits to the head. If you have no ability to respond under pressure and to be able to hit back whilst having someone try to hit you in the head hard then worrying about your ability to trap and throw is a bit redundant.

Every MMA gym I have been to and trained in, and every fighter I know of and have met train trains with BOTH MMA gloves and boxing gloves and does the majority of there hard sparring with boxing gloves, why do you think that is?

Why do you think they also separate stand-up and ground work and spent a lot of time training just stand up and clinch with boxing gloves, and why do you think they also spend time on the ground defending against someone attacking them with boxing gloves on?

[Dragonzbane76]

Every MMA gym I have been to and trained in, and every fighter I know of and have met train trains with BOTH MMA gloves and boxing gloves and does the majority of there hard sparring with boxing gloves, why do you think that is?

Why do you think they also separate stand-up and ground work and spent a lot of time training just stand up and clinch with boxing gloves, and why do you think they also spend time on the ground defending against someone attacking them with boxing gloves on?

hum.........could it be maybe just maybe they want to stay away from injuries as much as possible while still being able to produce power and full resistance? hum................

[Frost]

hum.........could it be maybe just maybe they want to stay away from injuries as much as possible while still being able to produce power and full resistance? hum................

Oh stop being such a smart arse s if I had wanted a thoughtful coherent answer I would have not asked ED I would have asked someone who actually knows a bit about training :)

As an aside any poster who managers to not only get goju and knifefighter agreeing on things but also gets goju actually defending knife must be pretty special :)

And does anyone else notice that those posters who agree with and become friends with HW108 are very special (I am thinking sifu Ali from the wing chun forum here, him and ED seem to have a lot in common….)

[EarthDragon]

frost

I was asking because if you knew anything about full contact MMA and the way people train for it you wouldn’t be saying these stupid things and asking silly questions,
1. I have a weekly TV show here in NY about MMA.
2. I just bought the only octagon cage in WNY.
3. I have chuck anzelone teachign my BJJ class, google him the only graice certifed
in NY do you think he woudl come help teach at my school if I knew nothing about
MMA?
4. I have a fighter fighting his procard this sat'sin "Match in the Mist" at the senca
Niagara casino raging wolf MMA cage match!
5. I trained Joel sutton for UFC 6 and 7 adn he won both altertnative bouts
6. I hosted the world pancrase champion Yoshiki takahashi form Chib japan in 1998
who trained ay my school
7. I have my own youtube channel that will show weekly fights live in HD from my
school starting Jan 1st
is this enough to prove I know just a little about fighting and MMA as well as kung fur for 29 years? I dont need to brag and am quite humble about my knowledge and teachings as I know far more expericned and tougher guys then myself out there so I know some compared with them but I can assure you i know a ton more than you are givng me credit for, lyou must at least agrre to thsi or our coversation will end!
Im not a kid who takes classes for a few yers, this is my life. adn my livelyhood.



Nice…me be nice…..I am generally quite pleasant on here to everyone really apart from those who are either insulting or just being stupid (you manage to fit into both categories well done!)
frsoit I try to respond to your posts with hoineslty and eplaination but when you satart off your repy to me by I dont knwo anything adn i suck yadda yadda I find it hard to hold a disccusaion with you as your repies are just like kniffighter who got banned for beign an as hole dont go there.


you can perform throws takedowns, go into ground and pound all which gloves on, you can even apply some locks (but not very well), if you don’t know how to clinch and throw with boxing gloves on I suggest you go to a sanda or thai club, they seem to manage it ok
I hold 2 clasess a night for the last 14 years, and while we do have boxing gloves in the schol and do use them we we are trainign boxing stlye for stadn up only. when we do kung fu, or BJJ or MMA they come off and either harbinger padded 4oz goes on with open finges or no gloves and if no gloves we refrain from punching direclty in the face it is practice. and i canassure you we go full out blood sometimes but lots of brusises. plus I am smart enough to teach my guys you dont punch the head its to har with or wirhout gloves on so why wear them?


Every MMA gym I have been to and trained in, and every fighter I know of and have met train trains with BOTH MMA gloves and boxing gloves and does the majority of there hard sparring with boxing gloves, why do you think that is?

maybe you havnet trained in the tough gyms? perhaps they dont want sued? maybe its not greared to turn out real fighters? maybe its a recreational MA gym? thy dont hit full conact in takwon do either doesnt mean they are learning realy applicaion



Why do you think they also separate stand-up and ground work and spent a lot of time training just stand up and clinch with boxing gloves, and why do you think they also spend time on the ground defending against someone attacking them with boxing gloves on?

UMMMM they dont if they do, find a more hardcore gym.
sorry for the typos I cant type to save my life

[Hardwork108]

And does anyone else notice that those posters who agree with and become friends with HW108 are very special (I am thinking sifu Ali from the wing chun forum here, him and ED seem to have a lot in common….)

Yes, they all, unlike you, practice genuine kung fu, rather than pseudo kung fu mixed with MMA!

That is something to think about when you, an MMA-ists, are posting in a KUNG FU Forum, while recommending Olympic Weight training practice for the development of one's Internals and Internal body unity....;)

[Dragonzbane76]

seriously you ban KF for sh!t stirring and this guy gets loose?

[sanjuro_ronin]

frost

1. I have a weekly TV show here in NY about MMA.
2. I just bought the only octagon cage in WNY.
3. I have chuck anzelone teachign my BJJ class, google him the only graice certifed
in NY do you think he woudl come help teach at my school if I knew nothing about
MMA?
4. I have a fighter fighting his procard this sat'sin "Match in the Mist" at the senca
Niagara casino raging wolf MMA cage match!
5. I trained Joel sutton for UFC 6 and 7 adn he won both altertnative bouts
6. I hosted the world pancrase champion Yoshiki takahashi form Chib japan in 1998
who trained ay my school
7. I have my own youtube channel that will show weekly fights live in HD from my
school starting Jan 1st
is this enough to prove I know just a little about fighting and MMA as well as kung fur for 29 years? I dont need to brag and am quite humble about my knowledge and teachings as I know far more expericned and tougher guys then myself out there so I know some compared with them but I can assure you i know a ton more than you are givng me credit for, lyou must at least agrre to thsi or our coversation will end!
Im not a kid who takes classes for a few yers, this is my life. adn my livelyhood.



frsoit I try to respond to your posts with hoineslty and eplaination but when you satart off your repy to me by I dont knwo anything adn i suck yadda yadda I find it hard to hold a disccusaion with you as your repies are just like kniffighter who got banned for beign an as hole dont go there.

I hold 2 clasess a night for the last 14 years, and while we do have boxing gloves in the schol and do use them we we are trainign boxing stlye for stadn up only. when we do kung fu, or BJJ or MMA they come off and either harbinger padded 4oz goes on with open finges or no gloves and if no gloves we refrain from punching direclty in the face it is practice. and i canassure you we go full out blood sometimes but lots of brusises. plus I am smart enough to teach my guys you dont punch the head its to har with or wirhout gloves on so why wear them?



maybe you havnet trained in the tough gyms? perhaps they dont want sued? maybe its not greared to turn out real fighters? maybe its a recreational MA gym? thy dont hit full conact in takwon do either doesnt mean they are learning realy applicaion




UMMMM they dont if they do, find a more hardcore gym.
sorry for the typos I cant type to save my life

Which hardcore gyms are these?

[Frost]

Which hardcore gyms are these?

yep i'd like to know this, i have trained at leicester shootfighters for about 8 years and i'd hardll call it a recreational gym: the coach there has trained and cornered at least 6 guys in the UFC, one who fought for a title, he also has had guys fight in japan and in various other organisations in the states, and his amature team fights nearly every month, whilst it might not be a hard core gym its certainly successful. I have also been to karl tanswells gym on several occasions, and Broulo estimas place as well and trained alot with guys from the rough house, anyone with a clue about MMA will have heard of most of those guys and gyms, and they all use boxing gloves when they spar

[sanjuro_ronin]

You know what dude, it doesn't matter anymore.

[Frost]

You know what dude, it doesn't matter anymore.

umm can i ask what has happened, i was training last night did i miss something?

[Dragonzbane76]

yeah the idiots on here will believe what they believe. Sad.

[EarthDragon]

none of the judo MMA, BJJ wreslting schools in NY that i have been in use boxing gloves, all of the boxing gyms that I have visited in NY USE boxing gloves, theres appropriate gear for different sports, baby joe mesi is from Buffalo he wears boxing gloves when he spars its part of the uniform.
I also lived and trained in LA and SF and love to vist schoold when im on vacation just to pop in and see how other schoolds look and poeform its been my living for 14 years.

No one I have ever known or trained with uses boxing gloves to fight unless ther are boxer or working ONLY on thier stand up routines.

you mentioned paded gloves???? yes I will agree with you there for sure I wear harbingers with padded knuckles. but they have open fingers so I go to the mat I can work my applications and techniques, effiectively you CANNOT I repeat CANNOT train your applicaitons effectively with big puffy boxing gloves on the thumb is even sticjked to the glove so you cant open your tumbb form your hand Frost what part of this arent you getting?
how often do you train? I train every day I am at my school 6 days a week no sundays hopefully you train at least 2x a week if you would just try to use open fingere padded gloves and see how much better your techniqes will become.
if you dont agree then lets end this discussion, its getting old....

[Frost]

none of the BJJ schools in NY that i have been in use boxing gloves, all of the boxing gyms that I have visited in NY USE boxing gloves, theres appropriate gear for different sports, baby joe mesi is from Buffalo he wears boxing gloves when he spars its part of the uniform.
I also lived and trained in LA and SF and love to vist schoold when im on vacation just to pop in and see how other schoolds look and poeform its been my living for 14 years.

No one I have ever known or trained with uses boxing gloves to fight unless ther are boxer or working ONLY on thier stand up routines.

you mentioned paded gloves???? yes I will agree with you there for sure I wear harbingers with padded knuckles. but they have open fingers so I go to the mat I can work my applications and techniques, effiectively you CANNOT I repeat CANNOT train your applicaitons effectively with big puffy boxing gloves on the thumb is even sticjked to the glove so you cant open your tumbb form your hand Frost what part of this arent you getting?
how often do you train? I train every day I am at my school 6 days a week no sundays hopefully you train at least 2x a week if you would just try to use open fingere padded gloves and see how much better your techniqes will become.

honestly do you actually ever read the posts we put up, and can you actually take in what we say ro do you really have a reading comprehension problem?

Do you remember where I said over and over MMA schools use both MMA and Boxing gloves........

Do you remember asking me if it was a proper hard core gym i train at....do you agree it is a good gym and I do know what i am talking about?....

Where did i mention BJJ schools, all the gyms i listed are MMA schools, and every single one of them uses BOTH MMA gloves and boxing gloves, every single fecking one of them

Yes i train several times a week, :rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

frost

honestly do you actually ever read the posts we put up, and can you actually take in what we say ro do you really have a reading comprehension problem?

there you go insulting people again, you will be next on the ban list. can you say your peace without having to stoop to insults, lets try that for just once OK?


Do you remember where I said over and over MMA schools use both MMA and Boxing gloves........

yes i agree they use both for boxing glove use should only be for stand up sparring.


Do you remember asking me if it was a proper hard core gym i train at....do you agree it is a good gym and I do know what i am talking about?....

im not form UK so i do not know the gym or its reputation, but there a lot of crappy ones out there. we have 22 schools across the USA but i am sure you never heard of them as well being you live in the UK.

Yes i train several times a week,

try to not punch the skull its too hard even with gloves on , any other part of the body you dont need boxing gloves to hit and susatin injury to your hands. we spar and train every day with open fingered gloves no broken hands ever in my school. man up.

[Frost]

frost


there you go insulting people again, you will be next on the ban list. can you say your peace without having to stoop to insults, lets try that for just once OK?



yes i agree they use both for boxing glove use should only be for stand up sparring.



im not form UK so i do not know the gym or its reputation, but there a lot of crappy ones out there. we have 22 schools across the USA but i am sure you never heard of them as well being you live in the UK.


try to not punch the skull its too hard even with gloves on , any other part of the body you dont need boxing gloves to hit and susatin injury to your hands. we spar and train every day with open fingered gloves no broken hands ever in my school. man up.

Yep and its really working for your guys isnt it, i mean my soft school thats just for us guys who wont man up has put 6 guys over the last 2 years in the UFC, one for the title match, where as your guys are fighting...well where are they ?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

seriously you ban KF for sh!t stirring and this guy gets loose?

Guess so, just the same as KF only the opposite end of the spectrum. If I had a nickel for every thread he shi**ted up with his hate mongering I'd be a rich man.:rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

Yep and its really working for your guys isnt it,
yes they seem to like it, thanks
I have a fighter this sat in the Niagara Casino. sold out show, his pro card. working his way up the ranks.


i mean my soft school thats just for us guys who wont man up has put 6 guys over the last 2 years in the UFC, one for the title match,

never said you school was soft, I dont know if it so i dont make claims of things I dont know. might be a great school.


where as your guys are fighting...well where are they ?
well some of the new kids are working thier way up some are brand new but have great potential.
one of my guys fights sat night in the biggest casino in NY
UFC 6 and 7
BTW these are MY students, you on the other hand happen to be enrolled at the gym with these guys, not quite the same, you have nothign to do with thier abilty. You can still be a member of the same gym doesnt mean you are good at it..

theres lots of members of Golds gym does it mean they are body buliders? becuse you work out a gym doesnt mean anything other than its close to your house..

[Frost]

yes they seem to like it, thanks
I have a fighter this sat in the Niagara Casino. sold out show, his pro card. working his way up the ranks.



never said you school was soft, I dont know if it so i dont make claims of things I dont know. might be a great school.


well some of the new kids are working thier way up some are brand new but have great potential.
one of my guys fights sat night in the biggest casino in NY
UFC 6 and 7
BTW these are MY students, you on the other hand happen to be enrolled at the gym with these guys, not quite the same, you have nothign to do with thier abilty. You can still be a member of the same gym doesnt mean you are good at it..

theres lots of members of Golds gym does it mean they are body buliders? becuse you work out a gym doesnt mean anything other than its close to your house..

There you go with your inability to read and understand anything, with the risk of sounding like Terrance how good or bad I am doesn’t matter, the fact is the gym I train at has very good pros and I can see how they train, I have also see how some of the best in the UK and Europe train, and non of them train like you are telling people to train, none of the guys on here who have trained at good gyms train the way you suggest either,that should tell you something

But I am tending to agree with Ronin this really doesn’t matter anymore…..repeating myself to a person who doesn’t seem to be able to read and comprehend at an teenage level let alone an adult level is just tiring

[Drake]

You guys should probably knock it off. If you haven't noticed, there's been some housecleaning going on.

[Dragonzbane76]

there you go insulting people again, you will be next on the ban list.

see this is the sh!t here I"m p!ssy about... just because someone disagrees this will be thrown up. Kindergarden crap. Dam people grow some thicker skin. Freakin retarded sh!t.

[Frost]

You guys should probably knock it off. If you haven't noticed, there's been some housecleaning going on.

i honestly defy you rake, or anyone on here to read my posts and his replies and tell me he doesn't have either a reading comprehension problem or is simply ignoring my posts and posting replies without noting my comments, either way its making this process pointless

[EarthDragon]

View Post Today, 10:32 AM
Remove user from ignore listFrost
This message is hidden because Frost is on your ignore list.

simple fix, tried to reason and discuss why I feel you shouldnt wear boxing gloves if you train in MMA and he replies that I have a trouble reading because he doesnt agree
he is ignored problem sloved sorry for taking up so much of this thread on one topic

dragon you can get yopur point across without insulting and offending people cant you? basic civil conversation.

[Dragonzbane76]

dragon you can get yopur point across without insulting and offending people cant you? basic civil conversation.

you can do it either way in my book. My complaint is the tossing around of the ban hammer.

[lkfmdc]

you can do it either way in my book. My complaint is the tossing around of the ban hammer.

By my count TWO (2) people have been banned

One clearly deserved it and Gene explained why

The second I seem to have missed Gene's explanation, but considering how Gene runs this place like the wild west I am sure he must have done more than the usual (I mean, HW, ED and MP are still here!)

[EarthDragon]

well lkfmdc,
its because I do contribute postivley here and have done so since 1996 you should know this, I stopped into your school when I was in NYC but you wernt there. and we talked a bit Via PMs.

My posts are always helpful and civil to people who are the same back to me. I only had problems with KF frost. in the many peopel with whom I have spojken and talked with. I can tolerate you, because even though your are full of yourself, you do say good things and are helpful with your knowelge of TMCA and what you do for the san da community is great. But lets not say I have ever carried myself like the guys you listed me with or the 2 whom got banned. your just playing favorites now.

[goju]

UMMMM they dont if they do, find a more hardcore gym.
sorry for the typos I cant type to save my life


Funny because every MMa gym ive seen seperated the two. I was AT Grudge for a year and they seperated the stand up from grappling, keep in mind Gsp goes there when he comes to town so does rashad evans, shane carwin, brendan shaub, duane ludwig and a host of other big name fighters. You would think they would know what a hard core work out is.

[LAPD=Knifefighter]

yes i agree they use both for boxing glove use should only be for stand up sparring.


try to not punch the skull its too hard even with gloves on , any other part of the body you dont need boxing gloves to hit and susatin injury to your hands. we spar and train every day with open fingered gloves no broken hands ever in my school. man up.

If you want to learn to hit as hard as you can on the ground, wouldn't it make sense to use a protocol (such as boxing gloves and headgear) that allowed you to do that?

[MasterKiller]

If you want to learn to hit as hard as you can on the ground, wouldn't it make sense to use a protocol (such as boxing gloves and headgear) that allowed you to do that?

Sorry, headgears and boxing gloves are NOT good for ground training. They severly limit what you can work from that position. If all you want to do is hit something hard, sit on a throwing dummy and smack it.

[EarthDragon]

gogyu

Funny because every MMa gym ive seen seperated the two.

you mean stand up and ground fighting by your next sentance? yes so do we

Rashad Evans is from Buffalo and wreslted at NCCC our local community college , he is up in Buffalo for the fight tommorrow night. I have a figher from my school in the match at the casino and rashad is coming to my school monday for a TV special appreance and interview for my TV weekly show, he and my partner went to school together. So I do know what i am talking about, I put a guy in the UFC 2x and very well known in the MMA community.


You would think they would know what a hard core work out is.
and so do I

LAPD

If you want to learn to hit as hard as you can on the ground, wouldn't it make sense to use a protocol (such as boxing gloves and headgear) that allowed you to do that?
you can hit hard on the ground using open fingred gloves far better. Anyone who uses boxing gloves for non boxing in my book is not using the full potential of his applications. the thumbs are connected to the hand and you canyt even grab a shirt hand arm leg nothing your usless on the ground with boxing gloves on plain and simple.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You guys do know that "boxing gloves" is a genric term right?
They come in all sizes and shapes, from 16 oz to 8 oz and even less.
MMA gloves are called that because they use them in MMA, before that they were "fingerless gloves".

[LAPD=Knifefighter]

Sorry, headgears and boxing gloves are NOT good for ground training. They severly limit what you can work from that position. If all you want to do is hit something hard, sit on a throwing dummy and smack it.

What is limited in terms of striking?

Why would you not want to develop the ability to hit an actual moving, resisting opponent who is bucking, blocking, trying to wrap up your arms, etc.

You can hit a heavy bag, but it's not the same as hitting a real, moving opponent who is throwing offense and defense at you?

[goju]

gogyu


you mean stand up and ground fighting by your next sentance? yes so do we
.

uh then why did you say this to frost?





Why do you think they also separate stand-up and ground work and spent a lot of time training just stand up and clinch with boxing gloves, and why do you think they also spend time on the ground defending against someone attacking them with boxing gloves on? .


UMMMM they dont if they do, find a more hardcore gym.
__________________

[EarthDragon]

sanjuro
yes i am aware we have differnt weight for outr stand up and boxing classes.
the stupid conversation came up because knifefighter and frost said I dont know how to fight real MMA style because my students and I dont wear boxing gloves when we train.

Then I stated that we use harbinger open fingerd padded knuckles, and they came back with nope you must wear "boxing gloves" to train to hit hard.

I thought for sure it was a troll post or it was a joke but thier dead serious.

This conversation cant be happneing so after I knew they were serious I put frost on my ignore,list i am done triny to explian myself to him, and then KF gets banned and comes back as LAPD and post his first 2 posts as rabuttle to our lasrt converesation which means hes not very smart and will be banned again, hopefuly today.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Sorry, headgears and boxing gloves are NOT good for ground training. They severly limit what you can work from that position. If all you want to do is hit something hard, sit on a throwing dummy and smack it.

I believe boxing gloves can be useful for training ground and pound, not so much with submissions due to obvious limitations.

[EarthDragon]

LOL the fact that LAPD AKA knifefighter just said "resisting opponent" adn picked up in our coversation right were he left off seems like dale franks is back alread!

[MasterKiller]

What is limited in terms of striking?

Why would you not want to develop the ability to hit an actual moving, resisting opponent who is bucking, blocking, trying to wrap up your arms, etc.

You can hit a heavy bag, but it's not the same as hitting a real, moving opponent who is throwing offense and defense at you?

The guy on his back wearing a headgear has limited options because of the headgear. Anyone who has tried to wrestle in a boxing headgear can attest to this. You ever try to bridge using your head with a headgear? How about escaping out the backdoor? And you certainly have limited options as to getting underhooks and overhooks with boxing gloves on, which are necessary for a lot of defenses.

Occasionally, we'll work mount escapes while someone drops punches on them with boxing gloves on (no headgears), but that is a courtesy to the person working the escape, not for the benefit of the puncher.

Wearing 7-oz MMA gloves/no headgear and limiting power is more practical, ime, for learning anything other than how to drop bombs.

[LAPD=Knifefighter]

you can hit hard on the ground using open fingred gloves far better. Anyone who uses boxing gloves for non boxing in my book is not using the full potential of his applications. the thumbs are connected to the hand and you canyt even grab a shirt hand arm leg nothing your usless on the ground with boxing gloves on plain and simple.

I guess I was mistaken. I thought you said you weren't hitting full-contact on the ground. If you are doing that, with MMA gloves, then I guess you are achieving what you need in terms of striking.

Personally, I prefer to work full contact striking on the ground with boxing gloves and a little lighter contact and full hand control ability with MMA gloves. I think it keeps the concussion risk much lower.

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro
yes i am aware we have differnt weight for outr stand up and boxing classes.
the stupid conversation came up because knifefighter and frost said I dont know how to fight real MMA style because my students and I dont wear boxing gloves when we train.

Then I stated that we use harbinger open fingerd padded knuckles, and they came back with nope you must wear "boxing gloves" to train to hit hard.

I thought for sure it was a troll post or it was a joke but thier dead serious.

This conversation cant be happneing so after I knew they were serious I put frost on my ignore,list i am done triny to explian myself to him, and then KF gets banned and comes back as LAPD and post his first 2 posts as rabuttle to our lasrt converesation which means hes not very smart and will be banned again, hopefuly today.

You guys should really learn to read each others posts.
Seriously.
You guys nitpick on the silliest of things, get personal emotions involve and then end up reading what you THINK is written, even if it isn't.
Seriously.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

You guys should really learn to read each others posts.
Seriously.
You guys nitpick on the silliest of things, get personal emotions involve and then end up reading what you THINK is written, even if it isn't.
Seriously.

Anyone else get the feeling Ronin is not in a good mood today?;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Anyone else get the feeling Ronin is not in a good mood today?;)

LMAO!
Sorry...just that even my patience gets tested with kids, heck my daughters are 7 and 3 and I don't have to moderate them as much as the people here !

[LAPD=Knifefighter]

The guy on his back wearing a headgear has limited options because of the headgear. Anyone who has tried to wrestle in a boxing headgear can attest to this. And you certainly have limited options as to getting underhooks and overhooks with boxing gloves on, which are necessary for a lot of defenses.

Occasionally, we'll work mount escapes while someone drops punches on them with boxing gloves on (no headgears), but that is a courtesy to the person working the escape, not the puncher.

Wearing 7-oz MMA gloves/no headgear and limiting power is more practical, ime, for learning anything other than how to drop bombs.

I think both have their place. I also believe that, just in standup training, you have to do some full-contact hitting to the head and that boxing gloves serve this purpose best.

[EarthDragon]

:LAPD

I guess I was mistaken. I thought you said you weren't hitting full-contact on the ground. If you are doing that, with MMA gloves, then I guess you are achieving what you need in terms of striking.

we hit to train and in moderation not the kill our training partners its not a match its practice. do i need to punch my opponet in the nose to work my sumissions?



Personally, I prefer to work full contact striking on the ground with boxing gloves and a little lighter contact and full hand control ability with MMA gloves. I think it keeps the concussion risk much lower.

LOL I highly doubt as matter of fact I know you are not worrying about giving your training partner a concussion.... LOl seriously? this is why you wear boxing gloves your hands are too deadly and powerful?

[MasterKiller]

we hit to train and in moderation not the kill our training partners its not a match its practice. do i need to punch my opponet in the nose to work my sumissions? Sometimes, the punch sets up the submission. I like using hammer fists to the face against someone defending an armbar.

[lkfmdc]

someone call Gene and tell him the barn is on fire again :rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

MK
absolutley but you can just tap the face to get the reaction time and them execute your technique without haing to hit the guy as hard as you can.
but to have boxing gloves on totaly limits 80% of your applications. you cant even itch your nose LOL

[sanjuro_ronin]

MK
absolutley but you can just tap the face to get the reaction time and them execute your technique without haing to hit the guy as hard as you can.
but to have boxing gloves on totaly limits 80% of your applications. you cant even itch your nose LOL

What kind of boxing gloves are you using? ****ing pillows???

[LAPD=Knifefighter]

When and how do you guys train your full contact striking on the ground?

Or do you not do that?

[LAPD=Knifefighter]

:we hit to train and in moderation not the kill our training partners its not a match its practice. do i need to punch my opponet in the nose to work my sumissions?

Do you only train submissions on the ground? How do you develop and improve your student's abilities to strike a resisting opponent on the ground if you are never striking full force?

Do your students only practice full force striking once they get into a match, but not before?

[sanjuro_ronin]

When and how do you guys train your full contact striking on the ground?

Or do you not do that?

You put on the same gear that you use to spar standing and you fight on the ground.
if you are going a bit lighter and wanna work with more subs and such and less GnP, you use MMA gloves and watch the contact with the elbows and such.

[EarthDragon]

LOL I give up dale, your right I and everyone else is wrong... have a good day;)

[MasterKiller]

What kind of boxing gloves are you using? ****ing pillows???

We use nothing smaller than 14 oz boxing gloves when hitting hard, but I prefer 16 or 18 oz. Everyone still has to go to work the next day, afterall.

[MasterKiller]

You put on the same gear that you use to spar standing and you fight on the ground.
if you are going a bit lighter and wanna work with more subs and such and less GnP, you use MMA gloves and watch the contact with the elbows and such.

What's the difference between using thicker training MMA gloves (7 oz) and "non-pillow" boxing gloves????

[LAPD=Knifefighter]

LOL I highly doubt as matter of fact I know you are not worrying about giving your training partner a concussion.... LOl seriously? this is why you wear boxing gloves your hands are too deadly and powerful?

We've done a lot of biomechanical analysis of what it takes to develop high levels of striking power on the ground, and we've developed a "ground striking system" around that, so there is a lot of power being generated.

So, yes, we do tend to need to use boxing gloves and headgear when we are training full-on strikes on the ground.

[sanjuro_ronin]

We use nothing smaller than 14 oz boxing gloves when hitting hard, but I prefer 16 or 18 oz. Everyone still has to go to work the next day, afterall.

Never used more than 16oz myself, but I never had a problem grabbing or pushing or controlling with them, heck watch any boxing match and you can see just that.

[Frost]

uh then why did you say this to frost?







__________________

because he has problems with reading comprehension remember :)

[Frost]

What kind of boxing gloves are you using? ****ing pillows???

LMAO comedy gold thanks!

[goju]

"What kind of boxing gloves are you using? ****ing pillows???"


http://www.toysgalore.co.nz/images/Socker_Boppers.jpg

[Kansuke]

Yes, they all, unlike you, practice genuine kung fu, rather than pseudo kung fu mixed with MMA!

That is something to think about when you, an MMA-ists, are posting in a KUNG FU Forum, while recommending Olympic Weight training practice for the development of one's Internals and Internal body unity....;)

Here we go again with the "you're not 'authentic'" crap for the 100,000,000th time...

...:rolleyes:

[goju]

i actually finally got around to watching this video

to be honest the kicks were complete crap.

You shouldnt be trying more demanding kicks like the spinning side kick when you cant even do a basic kick and you shouldnt be kicking high when you cant even kick well low or to the midsection

and this is just common sense really you should be aware of this yourself not have to be told that and the fact that its not there in that shows the quality of the school and the skill of the individuals in the video.

[Syn7]

"What kind of boxing gloves are you using? ****ing pillows???"


http://www.toysgalore.co.nz/images/Socker_Boppers.jpg

nice... must be easy to cover up...

when we were young, we would go to this driving range by my house, go on the practice putting green at like 2am and put on boxing gloves and fight all night... oh and we were usually on acid or mushrooms too... we were like 16 or so... good times... we had some nice battles...