light skill vs strength

[SPJ]

this is inspired by the other thread.

I used to practice kao on flour bags and cushion covered poles, forearm, elbow, shoulder, chest/back, hip etc

it was a gradual progress. but some how i hurt my right shoulder. i have to quit for a while.

so in the mean time, i learned to snatch or pick up thing fast and lightly.

and yes I may pick up cell phone and wallet without people knowing that they are gone.

so what is light skill and strength that you like to develop if any?

why it is important?

how do you train them?

sort of restart the other related thread.

:)

[MysteriousPower]

this is inspired by the other thread.

I used to practice kao on flour bags and cushion covered poles, forearm, elbow, shoulder, chest/back, hip etc

it was a gradual progress. but some how i hurt my right shoulder. i have to quit for a while.

so in the mean time, i learned to snatch or pick up thing fast and lightly.

and yes I may pick up cell phone and wallet without people knowing that they are gone.

so what is light skill and strength that you like to develop if any?

why it is important?

how do you train them?

sort of restart the other related thread.

:)


Since light skill is total BS you might as well train something useful and measureable. Strength.

[SPJ]

kao is to use wide area of your body to shudder the opponent when your body is in contact with the opponent.

you break his roots and make him fall.

if just hit his soft spots, such as ribside chest etc it is kao da

if you may also trap his leg and make him fall, it is kao shuai.

so I do not need to kao the board, wall, or ceiling and break them

I only need to do fast or sudden enough whole body move with enough strength to move the opponent which is 180 or 200 pounds

thus the flour bag, starting with 50 pounds

--

now it is your turn to share your strength training if any

:)

[SPJ]

Since light skill is total BS you might as well train something useful and measureable. Strength.

light skill i mean gentle skill too

that is how pickpocket snatches your valueable

it happens every day.

:)

[MysteriousPower]

light skill i mean gentle skill too

that is how pickpocket snatches your valueable

it happens every day.

:)

Fine, I agree with that. Training to put things down slowly and lightly so no on hears you is one thing. Claiming that you can train someone to jump down from a 20 foot cliff, land on a water bottle, and not bend it or damage it at all is bs.

[hskwarrior]

Fine, I agree with that. Training to put things down slowly and lightly so no on hears you is one thing. Claiming that you can train someone to jump down from a 20 foot cliff, land on a water bottle, and not bend it or damage it at all is bs.

NO it's not. i just just off of a 30 foot cliff landing on a water bottle doing a head spin bringing back my old moves from my b-boy days. i'm cool. :D

[MysteriousPower]

NO it's not. i just just off of a 30 foot cliff landing on a water bottle doing a head spin bringing back my old moves from my b-boy days. i'm cool. :D

You should quit teaching kung fu and join the circus and make real money with that skill.

[EarthDragon]

SPJ, we call this baduan striking with the body when the limbs are seized or locked up, it what your reffeing to different?

[hskwarrior]

You should quit teaching kung fu and join the circus and make real money with that skill.

NO you should become my student so YOU too can learned some D3HDL33!!!!!

[Knifefighter]

that is how pickpocket snatches your valueable


No it's not. He does it by misdirection. Same way a magician removes your watch, tie or ring without you knowing it.

[MysteriousPower]

No it's not. He does it by misdirection. Same way a magician removes your watch, tie or ring without you knowing it.

Pickpockets work in teams. One person distracts the target. Another person grabs his wallet and then passes it to someone else. This is sophisticated pickpocketing and not stuff you see ghetto people doing in the news.

[hskwarrior]

ghetto people

stop with the ghetto people. you're sounding elitist. no one is any better than "Ghetto people" and vice versa. let's not be so judgemental towards people of lesser means.

[MysteriousPower]

stop with the ghetto people. you're sounding elitist. no one is any better than "Ghetto people" and vice versa. let's not be so judgemental towards people of lesser means.


Dude, you are sounding oversensitive.

[jdhowland]

NO it's not. i just just off of a 30 foot cliff landing on a water bottle doing a head spin bringing back my old moves from my b-boy days. i'm cool. :D

You landed on your head? That explains a lot. I thought it was your back you broke.

Just kidding, bro.

I can think of only a few moves that rely on swiftness alone and require little strength training. One is jin jih (arrow fingers) designed to collapse the trachea. This move is not likely to work by itself but only follows a technique used to drag the opponent's shoulder in order to cause neck extension. The preceeding move does take a lot of power training but the jin jih itself is a light flicking move that relies on the allignment of bones in the hand and arms to deliver the force.

In fan technique there is a small snap of the wrist designed to cut the enemy's eye and a similar move with the jian/gim called "nicking" which uses a little pop of the wrist to get in an opportunistic cut while engaging the opponent's weapon.

[Knifefighter]

One is jin jih (arrow fingers) designed to collapse the trachea. This move is not likely to work by itself but only follows a technique used to drag the opponent's shoulder in order to cause neck extension. The preceeding move does take a lot of power training but the jin jih itself is a light flicking move that relies on the allignment of bones in the hand and arms to deliver the force..

Ya see what I mean, folks? These are the myths you are perpetuating.

[hskwarrior]

Ya see what I mean, folks? These are the myths you are perpetuating.

to be fair....i can't go into details, but let's just say a certain someone from a certain known gung fu school used a finger strike to the throat and actually killed the person. so it does work. not everyone trains it the right way...but it does work.

[Knifefighter]

to be fair....i can't go into details, but let's just say a certain someone from a certain known gung fu school used a finger strike to the throat and actually killed the person. so it does work. not everyone trains it the right way...but it does work.

Yeah, and certain baseball people have been killed by baseballs to the chest. Doesn't make it not a fluke.

[iunojupiter]

Not to stir a hornets nest KF, but what he's saying about flicking the eye isn't a myth or some super power.
You've never caught your eyeball accidentally with the tip of your finger while brushing something off your face and had your visibility impaired for a moment? It's just a flick of the fingers to the eyes, or in the case he's talking about, using the edge of the chinese fan to "cut" the eye. Same thing, fingers, or edge of weapon, it's nothing mystical.
Pulling it off effectively, eh... hard to do and impractical, but still a legitimate "dirty" tactic if you can pull it off in close quarters.
It's not like he's saying to chi blast his eyes out or something.

Anyways, back on with the show.

[Knifefighter]

Not to stir a hornets nest KF, but what he's saying about flicking the eye isn't a myth or some super power.
You've never caught your eyeball accidentally with the tip of your finger while brushing something off your face and had your visibility impaired for a moment? It's just a flick of the fingers to the eyes, or in the case he's talking about, using the edge of the chinese fan to "cut" the eye. Same thing, fingers, or edge of weapon, it's nothing mystical.
Pulling it off effectively, eh... hard to do and impractical, but still a legitimate "dirty" tactic if you can pull it off in close quarters.
It's not like he's saying to chi blast his eyes out or something.

Anyways, back on with the show.

I'm the king of biting, eye gouges (my great uncle fought rough and tumble in the late 1800's and I could show you exactly how he pulled someone's eye out), jam cr@p in someone's throat, etc. You don't do it with little flickies, though.

[TenTigers]

my first Sifu, a Northern practitioner, had long nails. he once flicked them across my hing-dai's throat lightly, and opened up a welt right across. When he took us down, he would stick them right in our chest-youch!

Now, do I think that they are something usefull and worth developing? No.
I play guitar, use Charmin toilet paper, and play with wiminz.
You also can't do SC with long nails. I found that out the hard way-and my nails weren't even long-we were doing jacket grab and pulls, and I bent back a nail, almost ripped it off. Freakin hurt for days.
Although they might be good in cleaning your ears....

I think hand speed, and short, explosive shocking power is a skill worth developing. Being able to grab and jerk someone so abruptly that their head snaps, is very disorienting, and leads to other techniques, takedowns, etc.
Anyone who's been on the recieving end, knows what I am referring to.
If not, look up a good SC guy.
Grabbing them by the hair and doing the same thing is a thing of beauty.
A good bicep pop is a skill worth developing.
Being able to slam someone in the chest with your two palms and send them flying is a good skill. I had a friend who was a bouncer in a "Gentleman's Club" who could send a guy through the doors with this.
(I'm sure there's a cool Tai-Chi name for this.)


Light body skills is actually a pretty broad term.
For the most part, it is not jumping onto rooftops.
In some schools, it is quick, agile footwork, while maintaining rooting.
For others it may be jumping, dodging, and closing the distance from further away.

[iunojupiter]

Oh,
Collapsing the trachea with a stiff finger strike, not impossible either. Not like you're going to do it every fight, but it sounds cool. What he's saying sounds feasible, but I doubt you're going to be doing that in practice or in reality as a meat and potatoes technique. It sounds more like a "check this cool thing out" and you practice it, say yea, that's awesome, then drop it like it's hot. LMAO.
the technique may not be something you could pull off easily, but it doesn't sound impossible. I'd have to view to decide otherwise.

and resume, again.

[iunojupiter]

I'm the king of biting, eye gouges (my great uncle fought rough and tumble in the late 1800's and I could show you exactly how he pulled someone's eye out), jam cr@p in someone's throat, etc. You don't do it with little flickies, though.

But what jd is saying is true also. You don't have to eye gouge to impair their vision briefly, or even cut the eye with a weapon edge. It really only takes a flick of the wrist to cause your finger/weapon to brush the eye. Can you take someones eye out with a flick? Maybe with a nice sharp stick or something, but to just quickly distract or impair their vision, you don't need brute force.
just saying....

[TenTigers]

Oh,
Collapsing the trachea with a stiff finger strike, not impossible either. Not like you're going to do it every fight, but it sounds cool. What he's saying sounds feasible, but I doubt you're going to be doing that in practice or in reality as a meat and potatoes technique. It sounds more like a "check this cool thing out" and you practice it, say yea, that's awesome, then drop it like it's hot. LMAO.
the technique may not be something you could pull off easily, but it doesn't sound impossible. I'd have to view to decide otherwise.

and resume, again.

several years back, I'm teaching a female student a trachea grasp from a rear choke. Well, she grsps my trachea a bit too freakin hard, and you could hear the crack.
Nothing fatal-obviously, and I didn't require medical attention, but it hurt like a bastid, and was sore for months.
The trachea is cartildge, and is 2/3 exposed-especially in men.
No, it's not like in Roadhouse....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah, and certain baseball people have been killed by baseballs to the chest. Doesn't make it not a fluke.

And we come to the main and primary Law of science:
REPEATABLE evidence.

I have read about people dying from a baseball to the chest and a hockey stick to the chest and yet, in all my years of Kyokushin and in 1000's of kyokushin matches doen all over the world, every year, where chest punching is the norm, we have NOT ONE fatality or even major injury.

[TenTigers]

And we come to the main and primary Law of science:
REPEATABLE evidence.

I have read about people dying from a baseball to the chest and a hockey stick to the chest and yet, in all my years of Kyokushin and in 1000's of kyokushin matches doen all over the world, every year, where chest punching is the norm, we have NOT ONE fatality or even major injury.

could be due to weight classes.
When you look at it, getting a line drive to the chest is striking with tremendous force.
Two 170 lb guys punching each other might not equal that force.
Now, take two Kyokushin guys, one 170 lbs, the other 250lbs...you might find different results.
just sayin..

[iunojupiter]

several years back, I'm teaching a female student a trachea grasp from a rear choke. Well, she grsps my trachea a bit too freakin hard, and you could hear the crack.
Nothing fatal-obviously, and I didn't require medical attention, but it hurt like a bastid, and was sore for months.
The trachea is cartildge, and is 2/3 exposed-especially in men.
No, it's not like in Roadhouse....

What? No Tai Chi tiger claw throat tear? Come ON! Don't ruin my fantasies bro!

It really doesn't take much to damage the trachea, my toddler once caught me during one of his flailing tantrums and bruised it pretty good. Darn kids...

[TenTigers]

just sayin cause I knew a guy when I trained in Tang Soo Do, who was a former cop. He punched a knife-weilding punk in the head and killed him. He was "asked" to leave the force..
Now this guy was a farmboy. Grew up carrying drums, hauling stuff. You know the term, "Farmboy strength?" this guy was built like a tank. (looked kinda like Ernest Borgnine...)The kid he punched was a skinny teenager. The punch was right between the eyes.
"One punch, one kill."


I like to punch the makiwara.
I like to do palm training.
It has doubled my power.
I know this.
I also know I will never hit as hard as that guy.

[Knifefighter]

just sayin cause I knew a guy when I trained in Tang Soo Do, who was a former cop. He punched a knife-weilding punk in the head and killed him. He was "asked" to leave the force..
Now this guy was a farmboy. Grew up carrying drums, hauling stuff. You know the term, "Farmboy strength?" this guy was built like a tank. (looked kinda like Ernest Borgnine...)The kid he punched was a skinny teenager. The punch was right between the eyes.
"One punch, one kill."


I like to punch the makiwara.
I like to do palm training.
It has doubled my power.
I know this.
I also know I will never hit as hard as that guy.

And guess what probably killed the kid? More than likely, it was his head striking the ground, not the punch.

[Knifefighter]

several years back, I'm teaching a female student a trachea grasp from a rear choke. Well, she grsps my trachea a bit too freakin hard, and you could hear the crack.
Nothing fatal-obviously, and I didn't require medical attention, but it hurt like a bastid, and was sore for months.
The trachea is cartildge, and is 2/3 exposed-especially in men.
No, it's not like in Roadhouse....

Of course she did. She did it in a non-realistic situation, which is how most of the myths get started. Have her do it when you are really trying to choke her and avoiding her ability to get to your throat and the results are almost always completely different.

[TenTigers]

Of course she did. She did it in a non-realistic situation, which is how most of the myths get started. Have her do it when you are really trying to choke her and avoiding her ability to get to your throat and the results are almost always completely different.
point taken-however it does not negate the fact that you can crush a trachea.

[sanjuro_ronin]

could be due to weight classes.
When you look at it, getting a line drive to the chest is striking with tremendous force.
Two 170 lb guys punching each other might not equal that force.
Now, take two Kyokushin guys, one 170 lbs, the other 250lbs...you might find different results.
just sayin..

There were no weight classes in Kyokushin till about the mid 90's.

[TenTigers]

There were no weight classes in Kyokushin till about the mid 90's.
d@mnitt!:mad:

[Knifefighter]

point taken-however it does not negate the fact that you can crush a trachea.

Sure you can, but not like this:


. One is jin jih (arrow fingers) designed to collapse the trachea. This move is not likely to work by itself but only follows a technique used to drag the opponent's shoulder in order to cause neck extension. The preceeding move does take a lot of power training but the jin jih itself is a light flicking move that relies on the allignment of bones in the hand and arms to deliver the force.

[jdhowland]

Sure you can, but not like this:

Really? The mass of a human arm moving at high speed is not powerful enough to bend a little cartilage?

I must have been misinformed.

[Knifefighter]

Really? The mass of a human arm moving at high speed is not powerful enough to bend a little cartilage?

I must have been misinformed.

Yes you must have... or maybe not.

Please point to a clip demonstrating the technique you are talking about.