Wing Chun groundfighting

[Saboi Osmosis]

does your school cover any groundfighting techiniques/escapes etc....

I always here people say power comes from the ground, So if your on your back on the floor surely your wing chun should be good on the floor????

[Wayfaring]

does your school cover any groundfighting techiniques/escapes etc....

I always here people say power comes from the ground, So if your on your back on the floor surely your wing chun should be good on the floor????

My WCK is better from knee on stomach than it is from on my back.

How about yours?

[Hardwork108]

does your school cover any groundfighting techiniques/escapes etc....

I always here people say power comes from the ground, So if your on back on the floor surely your wing chun should be good on the floor????

Good question. :)


If you are on your back on the ground then your back will need to draw the earth energy into your techniques (replacing your stance/roots). That is more or less what I know about WC ground fighting as I had to move countries before I could advance into that aspect of this art, but ground fighting is taught in the Mainlad Chinese lineage of WC that I practice.:)

Note: The ground fighting of kung fu is not a well known area, so people may react negatively to questions such as yours, but not to worry, they do so because the general information available regarding the lesser known aspects of the Traditional Chinese Martial Arts (TCMAs) is very poor.

I believe that things may get better as China opens up more and more and the people outside start getting more access to the lesser known methodologies of the TCMAs. :)

[Wayfaring]

If you are on your back on the ground then your back will need to draw the earth energy into your techniques (replacing your stance/roots). That is more or less what I know about WC ground fighting as I had to move countries before I could advance into that aspect of this art, but ground fighting is taught in the Mainlad Chinese lineage of WC that I practice.:)


Or you could give up ridiculous ideas about "drawing earth energy into your techniques" and train a functional art in that area like BJJ or Sambo.

The reason that the "ground fighting of kung fu" isn't known is because it is either non-existent, an after-thought to many systems, or trained in a fashion that is far inferior to the way BJJ is trained.

So you can learn something functional off your back, or sit there breathing peacefully "drawing earth energy into your techniques" while someone helps provide "earth energy into your techniques" by introducing your face to the earth through pounding it there.

[anerlich]

I always here people say power comes from the ground, So if your on your back on the floor surely your wing chun should be good on the floor????

Presumably if your WC is good with your back on the floor because power comes from the ground, it should be just as good if you're face down on your stomach. Try that out and let me know how it goes.


My WCK is better from knee on stomach than it is from on my back.


Yeah, you see very little effective G&P from the guy on the bottom. You do see occasional knockouts from kicks from the ground against people who approach the grounded fighter injudiciously (i.e. bent over), e.g. Renzo vs Taktarov.

Groundfighting is taught in TWC. In a nutshell, it involves kicking or taking down a standing opponent to either hurt him long enough or get him far enough away for you to regain your feet and continue the fight from there. There is no concept of ground grappling or positional control, at least none worth discussing.

There are a number of KF styles which explore groundfighting on some detail, and there may even be some secret ones still known to only a few Chinese masters, though IMO there is no evidence of this.

The time has long past for hiding such lights under bushels. There's huge amounts of money, kudos, national pride, etc avaialble for anyone that can hold their own in MMA against wrestlers or BJJ stylists using TCMA groundfighting.


does your school cover any groundfighting techiniques/escapes etc....


Yes. MY WC school is a Machado BJJ affiliate.

[Hardwork108]

Or you could give up ridiculous ideas about "drawing earth energy into your techniques" and train a functional art in that area like BJJ or Sambo.
If I was learning the "functional" arts of BJJ or Sambo, then I would NOT be posting in a KUNG FU FORUM!


The reason that the "ground fighting of kung fu" isn't known is because it is either non-existent, an after-thought to many systems, or trained in a fashion that is far inferior to the way BJJ is trained.

The reason that the "ground fighting of kung fu" isn't known is because of the Mcdojo phenomenon. So, please don't blame the messenger. :)



So you can learn something functional off your back, or sit there breathing peacefully "drawing earth energy into your techniques" while someone helps provide "earth energy into your techniques" by introducing your face to the earth through pounding it there.

I mentioned "earth energy" in reference to the use of stance/roots (with the help of gravity) to generate power. When you are on the ground and on your back, then your back works like your stance would, to generate power for your techniques - strikes and Chin-na/Kumna.

This means that my statement was not a reference to laser beams shooting out of the earth...LOL :D

[Kansuke]

Oh brother, this again...?

[goju]

Oh brother, this again...?

this should be the motto of this subforum:D

[t_niehoff]

I always here people say power comes from the ground,

People in WCK SAY lots of things -- much of what they say is nonsense. Listening to poor golfers tell you how to play golf only leads to failure.

Your power doesn't "come from" the ground. It comes from your body.

[jesper]

When NASA found out they couldnt use a pen in space they spend millions of $ and lots of manhours coming up with new type of ink

When soviet union found out the same they used a pencil instead

Both methods works, but which is more sound

[CFT]

jesper, at least the space pen works, i.e. it is functional. It has been proven in the lab and in application ("on the street" as it were).

@HW108. Striking with your back to the ground cannot compare to standing striking. You cannot punch with your body, only localized arm power. Even in standing striking you are not "drawing power from the ground". The power comes from within - the muscles and sinew. The feeling of "power from the ground" is pure reaction to the force that we issue and/or receive.

[jesper]

jesper, at least the space pen works, i.e. it is functional. It has been proven in the lab and in application ("on the street" as it were).


So does the pencil.
The point is one used a true and tested method, the other spend loads of time and money inventing something new to do the same task.

Or to tie it with this thread. why go reinvent the wheel when you can just study with someone who already has a true and tested method

[sanjuro_ronin]

jesper, at least the space pen works, i.e. it is functional. It has been proven in the lab and in application ("on the street" as it were).

@HW108. Striking with your back to the ground cannot compare to standing striking. You cannot punch with your body, only localized arm power. Even in standing striking you are not "drawing power from the ground". The power comes from within - the muscles and sinew. The feeling of "power from the ground" is pure reaction to the force that we issue and/or receive.

You know nothing of the internals of authentic TCMA.
:D

[trubblman]

When NASA found out they couldnt use a pen in space they spend millions of $ and lots of manhours coming up with new type of ink

When soviet union found out the same they used a pencil instead

Both methods works, but which is more sound

You do realize that is not a true story? In space, both Americans and Russians use the same pen invented by an American.

[Wayfaring]

I mentioned "earth energy" in reference to the use of stance/roots (with the help of gravity) to generate power. When you are on the ground and on your back, then your back works like your stance would, to generate power for your techniques - strikes and Chin-na/Kumna.

This means that my statement was not a reference to laser beams shooting out of the earth...LOL :D

The ground is a different world. While some of the concepts from TCMA can apply, there are different fundamentals that have to be learned. Without those you are just as likely to do the exact wrong thing in a situation as opposed to the right thing.

Also, typically the "concept" stuff wrestlers have been doing since they were in middle school.

[Eric_H]

The ground is a different world. While some of the concepts from TCMA can apply, there are different fundamentals that have to be learned. Without those you are just as likely to do the exact wrong thing in a situation as opposed to the right thing.



+1

Learning grappling after doing CMA for a while isn't that hard. The mechanics are different but the ideas of disrupting/controlling balance and getting better leverage are constant in both.

CMA wants to stand up, wrestling wants to stay down, that's the big strategy difference.

[Wayfaring]

Yes. MY WC school is a Machado BJJ affiliate.

I saw Rigan Machado about a month ago - he was out here doing a seminar for some of the guys I train with for 3 days. He's got tons of ground knowledge. He's nowhere near in fighting shape lately, but was just fooling around demonstrating a mounted triangle while talking not even locking it up at all, and you've got a purple belt passing out from the pressure. Great sequence of moves he taugth during the seminar, and he always gives tests at his seminars with penalties for not getting stuff right. Great stuff and he's totally fun to go out to dinner with too - stories upon stories. Laid back fun guy.

Here's a clip of one of his grappling matches at a Sambo tournament in 1994 - just for fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1kbLTOkYww

WCK guys - that's the quality of person you need teaching your ground fundamentals.

[Wayfaring]

+1

Learning grappling after doing CMA for a while isn't that hard. The mechanics are different but the ideas of disrupting/controlling balance and getting better leverage are constant in both.

CMA wants to stand up, wrestling wants to stay down, that's the big strategy difference.

It's kind of fun and a good workout if you have a little extra time outside of normal training. Get someone with good fundamentals though that can make you pay for mistakes.

The strategy thing goes back and forth. Wrestlers dictate the pace, strikers get better at takedown defense and blending striking. Some of the best fighters nowadays have wrestling and ground background with improved standup - like Cain Velasquez. When the skill level in takedowns and ground defense evens out, then striking becomes king again. Fighting against better people is as much exploiting skill mismatches as anything else.

But if you train across a decent pool of talent, you can deal with different strategies.

[Hardwork108]

The ground is a different world. While some of the concepts from TCMA can apply, there are different fundamentals that have to be learned. Without those you are just as likely to do the exact wrong thing in a situation as opposed to the right thing.

It depends on what TCMA principles you are using and how you are training them.


Also, typically the "concept" stuff wrestlers have been doing since they were in middle school.

Interesting, perhaps I should frequent wrestling forums to find out about them....

[Wayfaring]

It depends on what TCMA principles you are using and how you are training them.

So you are proficient in ground skills then? From your WCK background? How do you fare when testing out your training in a standard BJJ school on the ground?



Interesting, perhaps I should frequent wrestling forums to find out about them....

No, it's never necessary to look to any other form of martial art for answers. Just blindly follow your sifu and what he tells you. Never ask him to prove his ground skills.

Also ignore the fact that Yip Man and other very well known WCK sifus have studied multiple arts as they interacted with one another and exchanged ideas, training and expertise.

And while you are at it, make sure that anyone asking about WCK "groundfighting" never explores anything outside their little clique of approved martial arts.

Because a bigoted view is a pure view, right?

[Hardwork108]

So you are proficient in ground skills then? From your WCK background? How do you fare when testing out your training in a standard BJJ school on the ground?
I have never claimed to be "proficient" in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.

Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!




No, it's never necessary to look to any other form of martial art for answers. Just blindly follow your sifu and what he tells you. Never ask him to prove his ground skills.

If you have any doubts about the skills of any TCMA sifu, you are free to go to their kwoon (kung fu schools) and challenge them!


Also ignore the fact that Yip Man and other very well known WCK sifus have studied multiple arts as they interacted with one another and exchanged ideas, training and expertise.
Very true, Yip Man was very well known for his BJJ skills.....:rolleyes:


And while you are at it, make sure that anyone asking about WCK "groundfighting" never explores anything outside their little clique of approved martial arts.
They can "explore" anything they like, but IMHO, they should first concisley explore the art of Wing Chun, before they go onto "improving" it.


Because a bigoted view is a pure view, right?

You need to have a pure view of Wing Chun if you wish to improve it, because pure view will imply concise understanding of this profound art.

[Wayfaring]

I have never claimed to be "proficient" in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.

Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!

So clearly here on this thread you are running your mouth with zero skill to back it up. So if you have no proficiency in ground fighting, why are you polluting up this thread? Oh, to spread rumor and fantasy stories?



If you have any doubts about the skills of any TCMA sifu, you are free to go to their kwoon (kung fu schools) and challenge them!

Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu's name? I'll start there.



Very true, Yip Man was very well known for his BJJ skills.....:rolleyes:

So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.



They can "explore" anything they like, but IMHO, they should first concisley explore the art of Wing Chun, before they go onto "improving" it.

You need to have a pure view of Wing Chun if you wish to improve it, because pure view will imply concise understanding of this profound art.

Everyone's journey is their own. Trying to dictate whether someone drills deep first or develops breadth is short-sighted.

[YungChun]

Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu's name? I'll start there.

LOL --- Don't forget to YouTube that match.. :D

The problem is that more often than not the student is not highly skilled (why he's looking for a teacher) so a challenge would prove nothing..

Teachers with fighting experience may offer some way of verifying their skills.. Many modern CMA Sifu don't/can't..




So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.


What I have been told by most older TCMA Sifu is, "Never just do one style.."




Everyone's journey is their own. Trying to dictate whether someone drills deep first or develops breadth is short-sighted.

Most don't do deep or breadth..

[Hardwork108]

So clearly here on this thread you are running your mouth with zero skill to back it up. So if you have no proficiency in ground fighting, why are you polluting up this thread? Oh, to spread rumor and fantasy stories?
There is nothing "fantasy" about the existance of ground fighting and grappling in the TCMAs, and that is the point.

If I had said that there were effective low kicks in Wing Chun, would you base the validity of that statement on wether I could use those kicks or not?



Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu's name? I'll start there.
My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors....LOL,LOL,LOL!



So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.
If he did cross train, then I would hazard a guess that he did in another TCMA, which would have been relevant to his core style. He would also have understood his core art before going on to improve it!;)




Everyone's journey is their own.

Yes, very true, and may your "journey" to the MMA forum be a fruitful one. :D

[SoCo KungFu]

I have never claimed to be "proficient" in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.

Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!

So you have never seen this WC groundfighting then eh...


There is nothing "fantasy" about the existance of ground fighting and grappling in the TCMAs, and that is the point.

If I had said that there were effective low kicks in Wing Chun, would you base the validity of that statement on wether I could use those kicks or not?

You have by your own admission absolutely zero experience in this topic. You keep stammering on about the TCMA groundfighting that you have never even learned. Do go to some wrestling forums. You need the exposure...

[Frost]

There is nothing "fantasy" about the existance of ground fighting and grappling in the TCMAs, and that is the point.

If I had said that there were effective low kicks in Wing Chun, would you base the validity of that statement on wether I could use those kicks or not?



My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors....LOL,LOL,LOL!



If he did cross train, then I would hazard a guess that he did in another TCMA, which would have been relevant to his core style. He would also have understood his core art before going on to improve it!;)





Yes, very true, and may your "journey" to the MMA forum be a fruitful one. :D

actually he asked where you trained now so he could pop by...do tell ;o)

[t_niehoff]

actually he asked where you trained now so he could pop by...do tell ;o)

He doesn't train except in his fantasy.

[Wayfaring]

My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors....LOL,LOL,LOL!


Oh dear precious baby Jesus on a pogo stick.

So we have this narrowed down to at least a continent. Not my continent, but it's a start.

But before I roll with your sifu I need to "survive an anarmed[sic] fight with fourteen year old gang members" ???

Does "anarmed" mean they have AK-47's? Or is it that I have to survive the kids class at your school first? Can you tell you have me shaking in fear here?

I could point out that a simpler solution is that Brazil actually also is in South America. And ask how your Wing Chun sifu fares rolling with people at Gracie Barra in Rio. But that might actually involve some logic and common sense, so I'll avoid doing that.

[monji112000]

does your school cover any groundfighting techiniques/escapes etc....

I always here people say power comes from the ground, So if your on your back on the floor surely your wing chun should be good on the floor????

Its great your school is doing something different. I am always look for someone who does Shuai Jiao, or even a tournament... I worked out with a friend who did Mongolian wrestling. I'm intrigued by Sumo, and would love to travel to Japan to devote time to learning it.

The real trick is go out and test yourself. register for a local grappling tournament, and work on applying your skill and adapting to make things work. Don't get discouraged by people who will jump all over you for trying something out of the box. The other thing to worry about is keeping an open mind and constantly learning.

JMO

[Hardwork108]

So you have never seen this WC groundfighting then eh...
Of course, I have seen it, as practiced by sifu and his senior students. It is you who have not seen it, now that is a little different....


You have by your own admission absolutely zero experience in this topic. You keep stammering on about the TCMA groundfighting that you have never even learned.
The point is that it exists.

Look, this is a simple point, some TCMAs address ground fighting!

So I don't know why it is refusing to sink in, as far as you guys are concerned? :confused:


Do go to some wrestling forums. You need the exposure...

Unfortunately, in this case, "the mountain has come to Mohammed"...:D

[Hardwork108]

actually he asked where you trained now so he could pop by...do tell ;o)

Well, you tell him that I am not doctor Kevorkian, so if he is looking to commit assisted suicide, then I suggest that he looks for it locally...;):D

[Hardwork108]

He doesn't train except in his fantasy.

Be nice now, not all of us are fortunate enough, like you, to have learned our Wing Chun through online studies and MMA "sparring"...LOL

[Hardwork108]

Look, let me clarify this before everything gets out of hand, after all, the subject matter of this very thread concerns TCMA grappling.

Various TCMAs DO address the ground fighting arena, that fact has already been established, even here. Of course, for many the argument remains as to wether that is good enough, but in IMHO it is, when combined with all the other attributes a genuine TCMA program can give you.

I hope this is clear now....

[Eric_H]

Lets hold the horses up for a second.

HW108 - when you say "ground fighting" please be more specific. I have trained in some CMA where they considered ground fighting to be what you do when the other guy is on the ground.

Basically, the only TCMA fighting from being on the ground I have learned/seen is:

-Kicking up to keep distance, to then regain your feet
-Trapping your two legs on his one to disrupt his balance, so you can regain your feet
-Rolling to gain distance, so you can regain your feet


I have NOT seen anything analogous to ground wrestling seen in BJJ where the idea is to finish on the ground. If your school has some please discuss it here, if it is more of what I listed above then that is not going to be considered "ground fighting" by BJJ people.

[Wayfaring]

Well, you tell him that I am not doctor Kevorkian, so if he is looking to commit assisted suicide, then I suggest that he looks for it locally...;):D

Only someone with no ground skills and no exposure to any ground skills would term any kind of test of ground skills "assisted suicide". Among those with ground skills, this type of thing is such a common everyday occurance that people don't freak out when mentioning it like HW108.

[Peaceful Orchid]

Lets hold the horses up for a second.

HW108 - when you say "ground fighting" please be more specific. I have trained in some CMA where they considered ground fighting to be what you do when the other guy is on the ground.

Basically, the only TCMA fighting from being on the ground I have learned/seen is:

-Kicking up to keep distance, to then regain your feet
-Trapping your two legs on his one to disrupt his balance, so you can regain your feet
-Rolling to gain distance, so you can regain your feet


I have NOT seen anything analogous to ground wrestling seen in BJJ where the idea is to finish on the ground. If your school has some please discuss it here, if it is more of what I listed above then that is not going to be considered "ground fighting" by BJJ people.

The idea behind WC and other TCMA groundfighting is to destory people on the ground using punches, kicks, joint breaks, eye gouges, biting, or any other thing that will finish off the opponent or multiple opponents.

[Eric_H]

The idea behind WC and other TCMA groundfighting is to destory people on the ground using punches, kicks, joint breaks, eye gouges, biting, or any other thing that will finish off the opponent or multiple opponents.



The way your write it makes it vague, do you mean you yourself are on the ground or the opponent is on the ground and you are standing?

[Peaceful Orchid]

The way your write it makes it vague, do you mean you yourself are on the ground or the opponent is on the ground and you are standing?

Either or both.

And, btw, yes you can use WC principles and techniques to fight on the ground.

[Eric_H]

Either or both.

And, btw, yes you can use WC principles and techniques to fight on the ground.



Then please give an example of finishing multiple opponents on the ground while you are also on the ground. I can't see that working very well :confused:

[chusauli]

Sounds like the Kruger Dunning effect.

Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

1. tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2. fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
3. fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
4. recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve.

LOL! :)

Groundfighting done like the Brazilians is something taken to the next level. And arts like judo, Sambo, and Catch are also incredible arts.

Chinese martial artists basically wanted to get up off the ground and stand up.

[SergeTk]

Only someone with no ground skills and no exposure to any ground skills would term any kind of test of ground skills "assisted suicide". Among those with ground skills, this type of thing is such a common everyday occurance that people don't freak out when mentioning it like HW108.
Q
uick question ...... how common is it for you to practice 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 on the ground?

[Peaceful Orchid]

Then please give an example of finishing multiple opponents on the ground while you are also on the ground. I can't see that working very well :confused:

Choke one, while kicking the other one and then breaking the other one's leg.

[Peaceful Orchid]

Q
uick question ...... how common is it for you to practice 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 on the ground?

All the time.

[Eric_H]

Choke one, while kicking the other one and then breaking the other one's leg.

Not to say it can't be done, but I personally can't see that working out.

Generally to choke someone you have to apply too many resources to the one you're choking to engage others effectively. If your kicks are devastating enough that you can break legs with one kick from a compromised position that would be impressive.

I'd like to see more about how you approach these things, send me a PM if you'd care to talk about it more in depth off the thread.

[Peaceful Orchid]

Not to say it can't be done, but I personally can't see that working out.

Generally to choke someone you have to apply too many resources to the one you're choking to engage others effectively. If your kicks are devastating enough that you can break legs with one kick from a compromised position that would be impressive.

I'd like to see more about how you approach these things, send me a PM if you'd care to talk about it more in depth off the thread.

No, you keep them off with the kicks while you are choking one (sometimes you can break the knee with a good kick, though). Then, after the first guy dies from the choke, you break the other one's leg with a leg lock.

[SoCo KungFu]

No, you keep them off with the kicks while you are choking one (sometimes you can break the knee with a good kick, though). Then, after the first guy dies from the choke, you break the other one's leg with a leg lock.

You're appearance is strangely suspect considering recent bannings. I'm thinking troll. Because if not, you are scraping the barrel lower than HW108's level of ridiculousness....

[SergeTk]

All the time.

1)Question wasn't for you
2)Also if you want to be taken seriously , I would not post things like you did in you reply to Eric_H.

[Peaceful Orchid]

You're appearance is strangely suspect considering recent bannings. I'm thinking troll. Because if not, you are scraping the barrel lower than HW108's level of ridiculousness....

Why is that?

[Peaceful Orchid]

2)Also if you want to be taken seriously , I would not post things like you did in you reply to Eric_H.

What do you mean?

[Wayfaring]

Q
uick question ...... how common is it for you to practice 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 on the ground?

Not that common. Playing games like that every 3 weeks to a month for a couple rounds.

[Wayfaring]

No, you keep them off with the kicks while you are choking one (sometimes you can break the knee with a good kick, though). Then, after the first guy dies from the choke, you break the other one's leg with a leg lock.

Meanwhile, the chi from your aura kills all the ninjas around in a 10 mile radius.

:D:D:D

[Peaceful Orchid]

Meanwhile, the chi from your aura kills all the ninjas around in a 10 mile radius.

:D:D:D

I don't believe in chi being able to kill outside things. Bad chi distribution or blockage can kill oneself, though.

[Kansuke]

I have never claimed to be "proficient" in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.

Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!





If you have any doubts about the skills of any TCMA sifu, you are free to go to their kwoon (kung fu schools) and challenge them!


Very true, Yip Man was very well known for his BJJ skills.....:rolleyes:


They can "explore" anything they like, but IMHO, they should first concisley explore the art of Wing Chun, before they go onto "improving" it.



You need to have a pure view of Wing Chun if you wish to improve it, because pure view will imply concise understanding of this profound art.






I thought we were done with this nonsense.

[LoneTiger108]

does your school cover any groundfighting techiniques/escapes etc....

I always here people say power comes from the ground, So if your on your back on the floor surely your wing chun should be good on the floor????

As far as the wrestling angle goes, or BJJ if you're a modernist, I personally wouldn't coach students in these sports I would send them to a reputable club. I wouldn't send them to an MMA Gym as the standards I have seen on the ground are nowhere near the BJJ/Judo/Wresling guys I've researched. These are still hard to find and wrestling, especially, isn't as popular in the UK. I also like the Shuaijiao guys I've met through the BCCMA, and feel that also has a closer connection to the art I coach simply due to the language and history.

As far as Ground'work' goes, yes I coach this. Yes I was taught this by a Wing Chun Sifu, and yes that helps in many situations that end up going to the concrete. The infamous 'knee to chest' is a WCK tech! Practise is geared more towards escape and avoidance than submission. Floorwork was covered because I was trained as a performer where we rolled in/out to attack/defend and as many techs were trips/throws we had to know how to fall! I, and many others that went through this, had not experienced that intensity in Wing Chun before and it had it's place (like everything) for a time. It isn't something that's done every day!

And FWIW, if Wing Chun is in perpetual development (which it really should be imho) then going down the groundfighting route will be a natural progression for some. I would just say that you need to hold onto the nature of Wing Chun too, and understand that this is a snake speciality that has been disregarded in the past only to come back and bite us all on our backsides! :D;)