Three part interview with Master Wong Kiew Kit

[Hardwork108]

Kung fu practioners of all styles may find this interview interesting:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsWnukYBvfA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmaYIvxc23U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoBOU4Ph_ms&feature=related

[PalmStriker]

Have a copy of Master Wongs Shaolin Kung Fu that I have read several times and is a great reference. Great interviews ! :)

[Hardwork108]

Have a copy of Master Wongs Shaolin Kung Fu that I have read several times and is a great reference. Great interviews ! :)

Thanks.

I have the book as well, and yes it is a great book, so good infact that when my first copy fell apart, I gave it to a friend who was interested in kung fu, and then I went and bought myself a brand new copy. :)

[David Jamieson]

His work is somewhat interesting.

Some of his claims are outlandish and he is not a practical teacher as far as how to actually use Kung Fu in a practical sense.

[Hardwork108]

His work is somewhat interesting.

Some of his claims are outlandish and he is not a practical teacher as far as how to actually use Kung Fu in a practical sense..

I believe that you should read some of his literature. If you did, then you would see that he sees Shaoling kung fu and Tai chi as combat arts, and that is how he teaches them.

Watch the interview again to see that he refers to the fighting aspect of kung fu....

[David Jamieson]

.

I believe that you should read some of his literature. If you did, then you would see that he sees Shaoling kung fu and Tai chi as combat arts, and that is how he teaches them.

Watch the interview again to see that he refers to the fighting aspect of kung fu....

:rolleyes:

I own his books and I have read them and no he does not teach as a fighting art he is highly esoteric in his approach and doesn't spend much time teaching practical fighting with the arts.

he sticks to forms, highly compliant drills and choreographed 2 man sets with virtually zero sparring at anything beyond the level of two man drills.

I do appreciate his depth of understanding, but I see him as missing out on some pretty important pieces of martial arts development.

[MasterKiller]

.

If you did, then you would see that he sees Shaoling kung fu and Tai chi as combat arts, and that is how he teaches them....

How does making clouds change shapes translate into fighting skills?

[Hardwork108]

How does making clouds change shapes translate into fighting skills?

Well, if you can make rain fall on your opponents head, then you can distract him enough to sucker punch him.....;):D

[Hardwork108]

:rolleyes:

I own his books and I have read them and no he does not teach as a fighting art he is highly esoteric in his approach and doesn't spend much time teaching practical fighting with the arts.

I guess the Canadian edition of his book is different to the one I own....:D



:he sticks to forms, highly compliant drills and choreographed 2 man sets with virtually zero sparring at anything beyond the level of two man drills.
Everything that you have mentioned above are part and parcel of fighting training, if practiced correctly, together with actual sparring.

From my readings Wong Kiew Kit's literature it is very apparent that they train free sparring, but that they do so after following a learning procedure, and not "from day one", which as far as TCMA training is concerned very wrong.

Before learning to fight through free sparring, one has to be familiar with principles,concepts and aspects such as basic techniques and rooting.


:I do appreciate his depth of understanding, but I see him as missing out on some pretty important pieces of martial arts development.

I disagree, he teaches kung fu the way it should be taught, and in all of its aspects.

[David Jamieson]

I guess the Canadian edition of his book is different to the one I own....:D
They are the same books across the world. His shaolin kung fu and his qigong books.



Everything that you have mentioned above are part and parcel of fighting training, if practiced correctly, together with actual sparring.

From my readings Wong Kiew Kit's literature it is very apparent that they train free sparring, but that they do so after following a learning procedure, and not "from day one", which as far as TCMA training is concerned very wrong.

Before learning to fight through free sparring, one has to be familiar with principles,concepts and aspects such as basic techniques and rooting.

He does not encouraged free sparring and doesn't move out of compliance drills and 2 man sets. In short, he has NO free style sparring (si yao da). As well, Who said anything about day one? Nobody. So please stop adding assumptions and deal with the information that is laid down. You wind up with convoluted threads and people who detest your style of conversation because you keep assuming and then putting words in peoples mouths. Please stop it will you.




I disagree, he teaches kung fu the way it should be taught, and in all of its aspects. YOu are free to form and hold to your opinion. I have nothing against the guy, but his Kung Fu in my opinion is weak and that shines through in his books, his videos and his demonstrations. He missed out on something and got himself attracted to something else.

Also, he has written some highly questionable things that put him into the cult of personality model and as well can easily be perceived as somewhat delusional due to those writings. (moves clouds with his chi, moves chi around the world to cure cancer :rolleyes: and other amazing feats of chi which are quite obvious to anyone with 1/2 a brain that...well, Like I said, all are free to form their own opinion.

Mine is that this guy does not have real Kung Fu and that he is a silk pajama salesman in many ways with far too many beliefs that overshadow true realities.

[B-Rad]

Years ago I remember his students talking about learning through some kind of qi transmission or drawing from some kind of universal knowledge base. Basically, they claimed their qigong would allow them to actually learn something like Chen taiji quan without prior training or exposure, spontaneously. This combined with the cloud moving, distance cancer curing, and some other nutty things pretty much caused me to avoid any of his material. I've seen some video posted from his school by his students claiming to be high level sparring, but it was clearly full or semi-choreographed low speed sparring sets. I mean, you're welcome to post some video that might change my mind, but from what I've seen and read from him and his students, his material just not worth bothering with. If he has anything of quality, I doubt that you couldn't find it someplace else with less nonsense attached.

[Liokault]

Do they spar?

Wahnam student in San Shou 2006, you decide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYxNNFQpinA

[David Jamieson]

Do they spar?

Wahnam student in San Shou 2006, you decide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYxNNFQpinA

I would say that neither of those guys have spent time learning how to enter and maintain control in a fight.

If those were under standard sanshou rules, then both of those guys are lacking in skill.

as one is a black belt of some sort, I would say that his showing was poor at best.

No offense. But all that needs work. :)

[Liokault]

I would say that neither of those guys have spent time learning how to enter and maintain control in a fight.

If those were under standard sanshou rules, then both of those guys are lacking in skill.

as one is a black belt of some sort, I would say that his showing was poor at best.

No offense. But all that needs work. :)

No Offense taken, neither of the guys are anything to do with me, I was just there watching, and its not even my YouTube clip.

I agree, neither of the guys fighting were good. In fact, the lack of competence suggests a low frequency of "full contact" sparring" at best.

I know at least one club that entered this event (a Chen tai chi club) put there people up for it without them having done any full contact sparring at all (I know this for a fact as I had a chat to some of them after one of their guys asked in the rules briefing "do we need a gum shield"!)

The rules were not standard "international" san shou rules, in that while punches and kicks are allowed to any area apart from the spine/back of the head; no points are given unless the blow knocks the other person to the ground. I diverge, but I do like these rules!

[ironclaw1981]

i would say that neither of those guys have spent time learning how to enter and maintain control in a fight.

If those were under standard sanshou rules, then both of those guys are lacking in skill.

As one is a black belt of some sort, i would say that his showing was poor at best.

No offense. But all that needs work. :)

i totally agree i own and love his books, but hes a little out there as far as his understanding of real combat!! He has a lot of knowledge and i like his forms and stuff, but hes very rehearsed and more esoteric!!

[Hardwork108]

They are the same books across the world. His shaolin kung fu and his qigong books.
I was being ironic, Mr Jamieson....LOL





He does not encouraged free sparring and doesn't move out of compliance drills and 2 man sets. In short, he has NO free style sparring (si yao da).
Sorry, but you are wrong! They do practice free sparring in his system, but they do follow a procedure, starting with solo practice, then fixed partner practice against hand strikes, then going on to leg strikes, and then fixed pattern two man sets, and then and ONLY then into free sparring.

If you really do have his book, "The Art of Shaolin Kung fu", then have a look at it again and you will see his sparring methodology.


As well, Who said anything about day one? Nobody. So please stop adding assumptions and deal with the information that is laid down.

Well, I just did, and you are wrong about Wong Kiew Kit's methodology as regards sparring, and anyone who has read his aforementioned book, will tell you that too!!



YOu are free to form and hold to your opinion. I have nothing against the guy, but his Kung Fu in my opinion is weak and that shines through in his books, his videos and his demonstrations. He missed out on something and got himself attracted to something else.
Now we have "kung fu" posters criticizing grand masters in their posts. Interesting.....


Also, he has written some highly questionable things that put him into the cult of personality model and as well can easily be perceived as somewhat delusional due to those writings. (moves clouds with his chi, moves chi around the world to cure cancer :rolleyes: and other amazing feats of chi which are quite obvious to anyone with 1/2 a brain that...well, Like I said, all are free to form their own opinion.
Well, to be honest, my chi kung knowledge has not reached a level where I could bet my life on him being wrong, and I am assuming that your knowledge is below that of mine. So, lets reserve full judgment for when we get there, shall we?

Besides, I am not discussing his Chi kung methodology, but his sparring one, and I am correct 100%. Read his own words in his own book, and you will see.:)


Mine is that this guy does not have real Kung Fu and that he is a silk pajama salesman in many ways with far too many beliefs that overshadow true realities.

Your opinion is based on you level of knowledge, both of kung fu, and the man himself.

I would humbly suggest that you improve on both....;) :)

[David Jamieson]

Your opinion is based on you level of knowledge, both of kung fu, and the man himself.



Yes it is based on what I know of Kung fu and of Wong Kiew Kit by his own writings and offerings.

You try to come across as someone who has put some time in with Kung Fu, and yet you can't see what Wong Kiew Kit is all about. :)

That's pretty funny, and telling at the same time. :D

Are you ever gonna have a good conversation with anyone here or is it just going to be a continuation of this sort of thing until you go away?

[Hardwork108]

Yes it is based on what I know of Kung fu and of Wong Kiew Kit by his own writings and offerings.

You try to come across as someone who has put some time in with Kung Fu, and yet you can't see what Wong Kiew Kit is all about. :)

That's pretty funny, and telling at the same time. :D
IMHO, your posts in this thread have been more "telling" than mine could ever hope to be......


Are you ever gonna have a good conversation with anyone here or is it just going to be a continuation of this sort of thing until you go away?

I am making a simple point. The man uses free sparring in his teachings. He sees kung fu as a combat methodology.

So, get the Art of Shaolin Kung Fu, written by Wong Kiew Kit himself, and read it carefully, and you will see for yourself.:)

[David Jamieson]

IMHO, your posts in this thread have been more "telling" than mine could ever hope to be......

I am making a simple point. The man uses free sparring in his teachings. He sees kung fu as a combat methodology.

So, get the Art of Shaolin Kung Fu, written by Wong Kiew Kit himself, and read it carefully, and you will see for yourself.:)

Yes, because we all know reading a book will instill kung fu in someone. :rolleyes:

Wong Kiew Kit does his thing. That's all there is to be said. Show me any combat of his or someone he's produced that defines and demonstrates that competence.

can you? I mean, I've been looking at this guys stuff for almost 20 years. lol

[Hardwork108]

Yes, because we all know reading a book will instill kung fu in someone. :rolleyes:
No one is talking about learning kung fu from a book. The simple point that I am trying to get through to you is that Wong Kiew Kit does teach free sparring within his Shaolin Kung fu curriculum. I say that based on his own words and in his own book, "The Art Of Shaolin Kung fu".


Wong Kiew Kit does his thing. That's all there is to be said.

No there isn't!

There is also the "minor" fact that he is a Shaolin Kung fu master, while you ARE NOT!


Show me any combat of his or someone he's produced that defines and demonstrates that competence. Can you?
There are a lot of genuine kung fu masters out there who do not "produce" sports fighters........


I mean, I've been looking at this guys stuff for almost 20 years. lol

And you were you looking at "this guy", presumably through reading his books?:rolleyes:

Again, you said that he did not teach free sparring, and I said that you were wrong, he does, based on Wong Kiew Kit's own words, and not on some internet "kung fu" warrior's assumptions.

END OF STORY!

[David Jamieson]

No one is talking about learning kung fu from a book. The simple point that I am trying to get through to you is that Wong Kiew Kit does teach free sparring within his Shaolin Kung fu curriculum. I say that based on his own words and in his own book, "The Art Of Shaolin Kung fu".
actually, yes you were, as you do not know, have not met and have zero experience with the offerings of wong beyond youtube or a book.



No there isn't!

There is also the "minor" fact that he is a Shaolin Kung fu master, while you ARE NOT!
If you think he's a shaolin master that's fine, If you think I'm not, that's fine too. :)


There are a lot of genuine kung fu masters out there who do not "produce" sports fighters........ Who said anything about sport? I said "fighters". Know any of his?




And you were you looking at "this guy", presumably through reading his books?:rolleyes:

Again, you said that he did not teach free sparring, and I said that you were wrong, he does, based on Wong Kiew Kit's own words, and not on some internet "kung fu" warrior's assumptions.

END OF STORY! I've actually corresponded with Wong. Have you?
Yes, I believe that does end your story doesn't it. :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

actually, yes you were, as you do not know, have not met and have zero experience with the offerings of wong beyond youtube or a book.

Not a book, but HIS BOOK!

Very different!

By the way, all civilizations use books to learn about things and about people. ;)



I
f you think he's a shaolin master that's fine, If you think I'm not, that's fine too. :)
Well actually, I am sure that you are not!:D


Who said anything about sport? I said "fighters". Know any of his?
No, I don't, and I don't know any Gracie fighters either....




I've actually corresponded with Wong. Have you?
No, I haven't. LOL!


Yes, I believe that does end your story doesn't it. :rolleyes:
It is not about MY STORY, it is about what Wong KIew Kit says in his own book, presumably written by him (and not you)!

[David Jamieson]

Well, I'm pretty much done with conversing with you.
There's no return on the investment.

So, that's that. :)

[Hardwork108]

Well, I'm pretty much done with conversing with you.
There's no return on the investment.

So, that's that. :)

What were you expecting, a medal for your clueless assumptions about Wong Kiew Kit?:confused:

[David Jamieson]

What were you expecting, a medal for your clueless assumptions about Wong Kiew Kit?:confused:

back to ignore you go little troll. :p

[Hardwork108]

back to ignore you go little troll. :p

:confused:

OK, you can ignore the truth all you want, but it won't go away, believe me.....

[B-Rad]

You're not making much sense.

[Hardwork108]

You're not making much sense.

I am making a simple point, and that is, Wong Kiew Kit teaches free sparring as a part of his Shaolin Kung fu curriculum. Wong says this in the book, The Art of Shaolin Kung fu, written by himself. He even goes as far as describe the procedure of training that leads to free sparring.

That is all I am saying.:)

[XinKuzi]

I'm not siding with anyone, but WKK's books are vague and oversimplified at best. I read the Art of Shaolin Kung Fu just before I started studying with my teacher (not WKK). That was 6+ years ago. Looking at his book now, it is more entertainment than a serious kung fu document. Back when I first read it, some things in the book that were either described vaguely or made to sound more esoteric and mystical than they are but, nonetheless, sounded interesting, inspired me to research said topics/methods. Anything I found of practical value in the book, I was able to learn much more about in more serious books, as well as through competent instruction from teachers. I do recall liking some of the eye exercises in his book, counting leaves and such. I was able to learn more about this sort of practice later on, but, again, the book did spark my interest in it...

The history in this book is the typical fanciful kung fu legend stuff. Fun, and can be inspiring; may give someone a very simplified impression of a style, enough for them to be drawn to a particular style... but anyone already studying and knowledgeable would not get useful info.

I have never recommended this book to anyone. I definitely wouldn't recommend it to someone who is already studying with a good teacher. If someone were to read it before ever studying kung fu, I think it could spark an interest in them and motivate them to find a teacher.

Okay, that's the end of my unsolicited book review. :cool:

[Northwind]

Excellent write-up, Xin. You expressed my feelings on the book as well.

[Hardwork108]

One of the things that I found most interesting in the book was his Iron Fist training, and I agree that the book is not a detailed kung fu document, but IMHO it does have some interesting information. How intersting, will depend on what one is searching and with whom one is studying.:)

[XinKuzi]

Excellent write-up, Xin. You expressed my feelings on the book as well.

Thanks, Northwind :D. Impressive curriculum available in your organization, by the way!

[richard sloan]

myself and a few others had a direct correspondence with both him and some of his well I don't know what to call them, on a web forum I used to post on regularly.

honestly if you think there is anything worthy in the stuff he teaches all I can say is people can waste their money any way they see fit. But with any serious amount of due diligence and critical thinking the case he makes and the vast majority of his claims quickly fall apart, at far beyond ridiculous speed. like seriously ludicrous speed.

[charp choi]

Well, he does look chinese and wears gold pyjamas so he must be highly skilled.

His stuff looks fine in a fantasy world sense but I can't see the "real" world combat applications in his system. It's all choreographed and done against his own students.
Have you watched his "Tai chi sword vs a katana" clip. If he's that good why does he wobble a bit in one of his stances? And one decent iado expert would disembowel him in seconds.
His defences against a boxer, wrestler clips are hilaroous. The bloke has obviously never had a fight in his life.

I have read his books and watched his clips.
I think he's crap. But that's just my opinion. :)