Contracting infectious diseases at the gym/kwoon?

[Yung Apprentice]

While sparring or rolling, how do you protect yourself from contracting something from another student/gym mate? It's quite easy to get cut or to cut someone while sparring or rolling, increasing chances of cross contamination. I understand it is not very likely, but the chance is still there.

Now a days, with increased numbers in HIV or Hepatitis, there is no way to know if someone is a carrier, even if you know them well.

Not too mention the different types of communicable skin diseases, such as herpes, or mrsa.

What steps do you take to protect yourself from contracting something during training? What steps does your gym/kwoon/dojo take to protect you as a student.

What about tournaments? MMA or other full contact events?

I post this thread, not because I have an answer, but because it is a legitimate question. One that I hope experienced martial artists, students and teachers alike may share in there ideas on how to protect oneself.

What can be done, and what do you do?

[Syn7]

if you plan to swap blood in the gym on the regular, mandatory testing for all members every so often may be an idea worth considering...

[Yung Apprentice]

Once again, this is not suggestions for me, this is to ask what safeguards ppl take at their schools. Most schools spar, it's not uncommon to get scuffed up every now and then.

[Kansuke]

I understand it is not very likely


Actually, it IS very likely.

[EarthDragon]

I have over 175 students and 3 training areas so we have a ton of precautions that we must take compared to when I was much smaller. Some of those precations include
no outside shoes can be worn on the training areas.
we mop and bleach and or disinfect the floor every night.
everyone is blood tested if they are going to fight inside the octagon.
studetns must tape and or cover any and all open wounds
students that have any type of disease must inform staff proior to joining.

ringworm is always going to be the most contracted communual disease mrsa can be one of the worst. hep Hiv things like this can ony contract through blood so if they are cut tape, alchohol and careful watchng is the best steps to a clean and heathly kwon

[Yung Apprentice]

Very interesting, I wonder if most places have their students blood tested. I think thats a practice more places should employ. E.D., how is it regulated at your school, what I mean is, is there particular lab students must go to, and I assume they bring the test results to you, prior to going in the octagon. Is it a one time deal, or do they have to regularly get tested?

[lkfmdc]

bleach

it is your friend

[David Jamieson]

1) A clean gym is a good gym

2) Personal hygiene is paramount to success here

3) no one rolls or spars without a clean bill of health.


#3 is the one that is not addressed properly by most clubs in my opinion.
For one thing, if you really want to reduce risk here, have the students get a blood test and show the results if they wish to full contact spar or roll.

No point in getting others infected with HIV, Hepatitis, or a host of other blood born pathogens that are easily transmitted in a scenario whereby two people are engaged in combat.

Consider this, if you want to fight on a card, that's what you must do. the same rule should apply for training in my opinion.

If your students do not practice good personal hygiene, send them out to get some before they spar or roll. It's the responsible thing to do.

If people complain about the cost of a blood test, tell them that it's better than complaining about having aids. It's a non starter argument in my opinion.

[SPJ]

1. Infectious disease may be air borne, thus a mask,

or just let the sick student not to play for a while.

2. contagious disease from contacting

thus limiting the contact, such as glove and clothing.

again, do not let sick student play till seeing doctors and treated for.

3. bleach will kill most germ and virus.

so wash your hands and take shower before and after playing.

any open wound/scratch seek medical attention right away

and some common sense of personal hygiene

4 a class for common contagious and infectious disease students may get and what are the symptoms, how to prevent etc

5. students signed forms of knowing and attending the class

then they are at their own risk.

---

[TenTigers]

no more carpeted floors-rubber training mats are hygenic and washed daily with antibacterial,antimicrobial, bleach, etc
Wipe down all equipment after use with clorox wipes
DON'T SHARE EQUIPMENT (gloves, headgear,wraps, etc)
Keep hand sanitizer available at all times-did you notice-they now have these at stores, banks etc.
students do not wear training shoes,feiyues, etc into class, but keep them separate and change into them. Training shoes are not to be worn outside.
(I don't care if Orlando Bloom wears them!):mad:
they now sell antibacterial rash guards.
(a sign of the times)

[SPJ]

mosturize for people with dry skin, prevent fungal

anti perspiration stuff for people sweat a lot and sticky and slippery, cleab towels

short nails such as pedicure, some germ live under nails

---

:D

[brothernumber9]

I could care less if someone has HIV and accidentally gets thier blood on me.
Most if not everything else has been advised by people who know.

[lkfmdc]

My experience, and it seems to be the experience of many wrestling coaches as well, is that the DIRTY *******S are the ones who carry and get the plagues

I learned to have a very heavy hand with people who show up in unwashed, stinky clothing. IE "GO HOME"

Other than that, wash you mats with a bleach solution...

Since I went on a jihad against the stinky I have not had a single issue

[Yung Apprentice]

I could care less if someone has HIV and accidentally gets thier blood on me.
Most if not everything else has been advised by people who know.

I'm well aware you can't contract something from someone with HIV if they just got their blood on you. However, when sparring full contact it's quite possible for an opponent's blood to make contact with an open wound of yours.

[lkfmdc]

I'm well aware you can't contract something from someone with HIV if they just got their blood on you. However, when sparring full contact it's quite possible for an opponent's blood to make contact with an open wound of yours.

There is virtually NOTHING indicating that two bleeding athletes can infect eachother....

People tend to BLEED OUT, not "in"

In addition to something like 50 years of gloden gloves boxing with no blood tests and plenty of blood, you have to look at one of Tommy Morrison's last boxing fights, where he had probably already converted, it was so bloody the ref's shirt was RED at the end (it started out white) and NO ONE associated with that match ever tested positive other than Tommy

[David Jamieson]

I'm well aware you can't contract something from someone with HIV if they just got their blood on you. However, when sparring full contact it's quite possible for an opponent's blood to make contact with an open wound of yours.

Indeed, or through the eye, the mouth, the nose or an abrasion.

not worth the risk without that test.

[David Jamieson]

There is virtually NOTHING indicating that two bleeding athletes can infect eachother....

People tend to BLEED OUT, not "in"

In addition to something like 50 years of gloden gloves boxing with no blood tests and plenty of blood, you have to look at one of Tommy Morrison's last boxing fights, where he had probably already converted, it was so bloody the ref's shirt was RED at the end (it started out white) and NO ONE associated with that match ever tested positive other than Tommy

dude....

If that's the case then why is it that any fighter in the pro or sanctioned amateur scene must have a clean bill of health or they simply are not allowed to compete?

I wouldn't say "Nothing" there is mounds of research that talks about blood born pathogens and risk according to activity and believe me, fighting IS a high risk activity.

[MasterKiller]

I'd worry more about Hep C than AIDS.

[lkfmdc]

Jamieson you have a horrible record when it comes to "facts" and "research".

For the rest of you, there is not ONE case that they can say was in fact a combat sport case of HIV tranmission. NOT ONE

There are probably some HEP results, I would be more worried about HEP, but again, it is statisticaly LOW RISK

We have to BOTH be bleeding and your blood has to be go IN my wounds.

Again, the very nature of blood is that it bleeds OUT

[MasterKiller]

Jamieson you have a horrible record when it comes to "facts" and "research".

For the rest of you, there is not ONE case that they can say was in fact a combat sport case of HIV tranmission. NOT ONE

There are probably some HEP results, I would be more worried about HEP, but again, it is statisticaly LOW RISK

We have to BOTH be bleeding and your blood has to be go IN my wounds.

Again, the very nature of blood is that it bleeds OUT

I've had my opponent's sweat drip into my mouth before while grappling (but teaches you to keep your mouth shut when breathing). Blood could just as easily do the same, or even drip into your eye.

People with contagious blood born and skin diseases should not particpate in contact sports. Period. I don't want to train with them, and I surely wouldn't want one of my students catching something for life because I failed to ask the right questions.

[David Jamieson]

Jamieson you have a horrible record when it comes to "facts" and "research".

For the rest of you, there is not ONE case that they can say was in fact a combat sport case of HIV tranmission. NOT ONE

There are probably some HEP results, I would be more worried about HEP, but again, it is statisticaly LOW RISK

We have to BOTH be bleeding and your blood has to be go IN my wounds.

Again, the very nature of blood is that it bleeds OUT

Dude, if that's your outlook, then I have to say it is unlikely I would advise anyone to ever train at one of your facilities.

You can't possibly be that unaware and uneducated that you would allow someone to full contact fight in your facility without them passing a clean bill of health when you know that any legit fight in any place in the world will have that as a requirement.

whether it HAS happened or not is irrelevant, the fact that is CAN happen is enough to demand a clean bill of heath and clean blood work.

I am stymied that you as a gym owner take such a lackadaisical attitude towards blood born pathogens. It's bordering on gross negligence.

My record on facts and research? Dave, you can look up the facts and research on blood born pathogens like anyone else. Even a 5 year old would tell you that it is unwise and unrecommended to allow it in your club.

yeesh man. I think you're arguinmgh just for the sake of it or something.

If not, that's amazing!

[lkfmdc]

People with contagious blood born and skin diseases should not particpate in contact sports. Period.



You know, there is a guy who competes in MMA who HAS HEP C but his "viral load" is so low he can't infect you. It isn't black and white.





I don't want to train with them, and I surely wouldn't want one of my students catching something for life because I failed to ask the right questions.

You can't have every single one of your students take a blood test, and even if they did, would you have them continue to test every month for the rest of their time there?

Do you ban people with tattoos? That's probably the #1 way people get hep.

Do you ask women if their boyfriends or husbands have hep? are IV drug abusers? visit "professionals"?

[lkfmdc]

Jamieson, we have this new policy where we have pledged to be pleasant with everyone on the board

YES, you have a HORRIBLE track record of making claims that you can't back up, you have claimed things are facts that are not, etc

You are woefully under educated and WRONG on this issue. I could explain to you in detail, but based upon your track record, I'm just going to save time. You've demonstrated you won't accept things if they don't fit into your "world view"

[David Jamieson]

Jamieson, we have this new policy where we have pledged to be pleasant with everyone on the board

YES, you have a HORRIBLE track record of making claims that you can't back up, you have claimed things are facts that are not, etc

You are woefully under educated and WRONG on this issue. I could explain to you in detail, but based upon your track record, I'm just going to save time. You've demonstrated you won't accept things if they don't fit into your "world view"

Ross- I really don't care what you think about me. Seriously. YOu make this claim of my horrible track record, but really, you're just being a whiner because you get confronted with stuff and told you are lacking for it.

Listen, you run your club as you see fit. I do not see that as safe and I do not see your attitude as wise.

So get over yourself and come to realize that blood borne pathogens are a reality and you, as a club owner should exercise duty of care.

I don't care what you think of me, but yoru attitude puts others at risk, period.

Do you want to argue with the reams of documentation that says you are wrong?

Crikey, you;re just being a jerky boy on this because it's me?

f**k you ross and the horse you rode in on. lol that is insanely irresponsible.

[brothernumber9]

I just think HIV testing in general is bullsh!t. The science behind it all is shaky at best. But testing to join a school or gym where blood and such may occassionaly fling around seems like a good and necessary precaution.

[SoCo KungFu]

I just think HIV testing in general is bullsh!t. The science behind it all is shaky at best. But testing to join a school or gym where blood and such may occassionaly fling around seems like a good and necessary precaution.

I'm not sure what you feel is so "shaky" about it. ELISA tests for antibodies. Practically anything that has ever entered your body has sparked production of antibodies. And now methods are available to test for presence of HIV viral RNA. Which can be done before antibodies develop and thus can detect primary infection or infection in newborns. Neither test is perfect, but the science behind it is actually quite sound.

[brothernumber9]

I'm not sure what you feel is so "shaky" about it. ELISA tests for antibodies. Practically anything that has ever entered your body has sparked production of antibodies. And now methods are available to test for presence of HIV viral RNA. Which can be done before antibodies develop and thus can detect primary infection or infection in newborns. Neither test is perfect, but the science behind it is actually quite sound.

What does a positive test mean? I can test positive on one instance and negative on another of the same test. The antibodies being tested for have never been shown to be HIV specific. The manufacturers of the tests as well as the different labs that test them have different standards to what is positive and what is not. Why is that? Not to mention the test kits themselves state that the tests should not be used to DIAGNOSE for HIV but to screen for it. There is no gold standard. I say that sounds shaky. What does Luc Montaignier, who is credited for discovering HIV have to say about it?

[mooyingmantis]

I work with blood everyday in a medical facility. So, maybe I can offer some relevant information.

Medical standards require us to let bleach set for 30 minutes on any surface in which blood has come in contact. You do not just wipe a bloody surface with bleach, you let it soak.

Hepatitis can be active up to 30 days on an unwashed surface. Hepatitis is far more common in the population than HIV/AIDS.
Hepatitis comes in seven forms: Hep A, B, C, D, E, F, G. Though only a few of these occur in developed countries.

On a happier note, if your students are not sharing intravenous needles in the locker room, having sex on the school mats, or licking up each others blood off the training equipment, the chances for contracting any form of hepatitis or HIV/AIDS are quite low.

[lkfmdc]

Ross- I really don't care what you think about me. Seriously. YOu make this claim of my horrible track record, but really, you're just being a whiner because you get confronted with stuff and told you are lacking for it.



Some us remember your claim that "in the US people go to prison for debt"

That debacle you are STILL running from.

Now, because I respect Gene, welcome to my ignore list

[lkfmdc]

On a happier note, if your students are not sharing intravenous needles in the locker room, having sex on the school mats, or licking up each others blood of the training equipment, the chances for contracting any form of hepatitis or HIV/AIDS are quite low.

THIS....

plus +1

[David Jamieson]

Some us remember your claim that "in the US people go to prison for debt"

That debacle you are STILL running from.

Now, because I respect Gene, welcome to my ignore list



:rolleyes: Just let it go dave, that kind of holding on hurts your liver. lol

seriously.

[MasterKiller]

To prevent serious risk of infectious transmission, I suggest using bandaids.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3646/3405369161_aa9f51a3ee.jpg

[David Jamieson]

I work with blood everyday in a medical facility. So, maybe I can offer some relevant information.

Medical standards require us to let bleach set for 30 minutes on any surface in which blood has come in contact. You do not just wipe a bloody surface with bleach, you let it soak.

Hepatitis can be active up to 30 days on an unwashed surface. Hepatitis is far more common in the population than HIV/AIDS.
Hepatitis comes in seven forms: Hep A, B, C, D, E, F, G. Though only a few of these occur in developed countries.

On a happier note, if your students are not sharing intravenous needles in the locker room, having sex on the school mats, or licking up each others blood of the training equipment, the chances for contracting any form of hepatitis or HIV/AIDS are quite low.

to be fair, most people's students are not drawing blood.

However, there are some clubs that play a little harder than others and even though it is low, it is still a possibility.

so, knowing is half the battle. I think taking measures of precautions such as have been stated here, bleaching mats, no shared equipment, no pigpens on the floor and no continuance when blood is drawn.

all comps, if any require bloodtest and if you have anything, you will NOT fight, period.

the same rule should apply to anyone who wants to take up training to that end and therefore needs fc sparring and pre-comp fights.

having low risk doesn't mean no risk and it's only responsible to minimize the risk and not the reality that there is one.

P.S for Dave Ross, fpr when you do read this:


...in Minnesota many debtors spend up to 48 hours in cells with criminals. Consumer attorneys say such arrests are increasing in many states, including Arkansas, Arizona and Washington, driven by a bad economy, high consumer debt and a growing industry that buys bad debts and employs every means available to collect.

Whether a debtor is locked up depends largely on where the person lives, because enforcement is inconsistent from state to state, and even county to county.

In Illinois and southwest Indiana, some judges jail debtors for missing court-ordered debt payments. In extreme cases, people stay in jail until they raise a minimum payment. In January, a judge sentenced a Kenney, Ill., man “to indefinite incarceration” until he came up with $300 toward a lumber yard debt.

“The law enforcement system has unwittingly become a tool of the debt collectors,” said Michael Kinkley, an attorney in Spokane, Wash., who has represented arrested debtors. “The debt collectors are abusing the system and intimidating people, and law enforcement is going along with it.”

Just as an aside, don't think that's gonna chill either as you folks head into winter and more and more mortgage failures start hitting the books and more people have a harder time paying what they owe.

wrapping it up in other language doesn't change the fact of the matter. If I'm wrong, please show me how.

sorry to burst your bubble. :rolleyes:

[Yung Apprentice]

Some very interesting points so far, and some compelling arguments. Mooyingmantis's input was very interesting.

There are other things to worry about, then just blood borne pathogens. I dunno how easy it would be to contract a form of Herpes from rolling with someone, but MRSA is a very real possibility, and not easily identifiable. And of course staph infections are quite common, even UFC stars such as Forrest Griffin and Big Nog couldn't avoid them at the professional level.

Bleaching the mats are one precaution, but I have seen certain soaps that claim to help prevent MRSA, impetigo and other infections, yet I wonder how well they work and in what context?

[David Jamieson]

Bottom line is there is risk involved in interacting with others in a combative setting where there is physical interchange with intensity.

Not only disease, but you could get injured in myriad ways while learning or practicing or applying martial arts.

risk, it's there.

[Syn7]

one thing with grapplers you will notice is a high level of personal hygiene... dirty people get called out right away when rolling... nobody wants to roll with somebody that stinks of anything other than sweat... that in itself may be really gross to some people, but we have an understanding within the grappling community... you wanna roll? be clean... otherwise people will just say 'no, i wont roll with you' and that could be pretty embarassing in a class session... people usually get with it pretty fast, or they just dont come back... its very rarely an issue... a few newcommers here and there who usually fall into line right away...

[GeneChing]

There's a vid if you follow the link. It's pretty nasty, all over this kid's face. Poor guy. That really sucks.


Wrestler with herpes virus urges delay of state meet (http://m.sfgate.com/sports/article/Wrestler-with-herpes-virus-urges-delay-of-state-6868290.php)
on March 3, 2016

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) — A high school wrestler who believes he contracted a highly contagious virus known as "mat herpes" during a recent tournament in Northern California wants the upcoming state championships postponed so other students don't contract the disease.

The San Jose Mercury News reports (http://bayareane.ws/21Kmh3T) Thursday that Blake Flovin believes he was infected with herpes gladiatorum during the Central Coast Section championships last month. His face is now covered in a severe red rash.

State interscholastic officials say they won't cancel the tournament in the Central California valley Friday because they have in place rigid protocols to protect wrestlers from herpes gladiatorum, which is spread mostly through red skin lesions.

Skin checks are held before tournaments and any athlete with an active infection isn't allowed to compete.

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/44/16/06/9494942/4/460x1240.png
Photo: Google Maps
Archbishop Mitty High School in San Jose, Calif, where Blake Flovin wrestles. Flovin says he contracted herpes during a recent tournament.

But the wrestler says some athletes use bandages or make up to cover their rashes.

"The rules and the swiftness in the way they deal with skin issues in wrestling is flawed and kids and coaches try to skirt around the issues," Blake said Wednesday.

The virus stays with wrestlers their entire lives. It can lie dormant for long periods of time. The virus becomes contagious when wrestlers have a flare up of lesions.

His father, Rick Flovin, also a wrestling coach, says hiding the disease is widespread because scholarships are at stake.

He says he helped launch some of the strictest hygiene standards in the sport, including requiring wrestlers to step in a pan of disinfectant before they hit the mat. That safety measure was not in place at Independence High, he said.

Officials with the California Interscholastic Federation, which governs all high school sports, said Wednesday that high schools are required to follow national safety standards.

"We've had many times where our doctors have removed an athlete who was showing symptoms or some sort of skin lesion. This is something we deal with on a regular basis," said the organization's senior director Brian Seymour, who is also tournament director in Bakersfield this weekend. "We follow protocol to the letter of the law."

[Cataphract]

I once got a staph infection from a seemingly tidy school gym through my knee. After that episode, I would never "roll" without a rash guard.