Irrelevant kung foo practices to that don't produce combat skills

[kungfoozer]

1. Light skills
2. Iron palm(not hand conditioning, I said Iron Palm).
3. James McNeil **** hanging qi gong
4. Qi gong for health
5. Forms
6. Complicated compliant drills
7. Iron body

[David Jamieson]

1. light skills are good, they help footwork and high mobility ultimately.
2. Iron Palm IS hand conditioning
3. Golden egg has some benefit actually.
4. Breath work is paramount to any martial art prcatice no matter what you call it.
5. Forms are libraries
6. compliant drills are useless, I agree, it either works with resistance or it doesn't.
7. Iron body is conditioning with excellent results.

[kungfoozer]

1. light skills are good, they help footwork and high mobility ultimately.
2. Iron Palm IS hand conditioning
3. Golden egg has some benefit actually.
4. Breath work is paramount to any martial art prcatice no matter what you call it.
5. Forms are libraries
6. compliant drills are useless, I agree, it either works with resistance or it doesn't.
7. Iron body is conditioning with excellent results.


I'm talking about those things practiced by themselves and separate from sparring which they usually are. If you practice iron palm..and never spar...it is worthless because you don't know if it works.

Forms won't teach you how to stop a punch or throw. Be real.

Golden egg has no combat benefit. That fact that your reply was so short is proof.

[David Jamieson]

I'm talking about those things practiced by themselves and separate from sparring which they usually are. If you practice iron palm..and never spar...it is worthless because you don't know if it works.

Forms won't teach you how to stop a punch or throw. Be real.

Golden egg has no combat benefit. That fact that your reply was so short is proof.

you've made up your mind, so train as you desire and as you see fit. :)

I don't need to write a dissertation on each point. I don't have the time or the inclination to do so. It seems you don't know or understand a few of these things, so you've come to your own conclusions without any relevant experience I can only assume.

[GeneChing]

Given that argument, you could punch a punching bag and never spar, and not be able to fight.

You know, I know plenty of security/bouncers that never spar. And they can really fight.

[kungfoozer]

Given that argument, you could punch a punching bag and never spar, and not be able to fight.

You know, I know plenty of security/bouncers that never spar. And they can really fight.

I'm not talking about cops, security people, military, etc.

They don't spar as you say but their job provides the sparring(resistance training) they need.

Hitting a bag would develop much more hitting power and ip than ip training.

[kungfoozer]

you've made up your mind, so train as you desire and as you see fit. :)

I don't need to write a dissertation on each point. I don't have the time or the inclination to do so. It seems you don't know or understand a few of these things, so you've come to your own conclusions without any relevant experience I can only assume.

You can't make a statement that golden ball sac training helps develop combat skills and then not discuss it. All talking points and no proof just like when you discuss politics.

[GeneChing]

There's a lot of variation in IP. There are closed fist methods, hook hand methods, chop methods. There's qigong and liniments too. But at it's core, IP is just hitting a bag.

[Ben Gash]

The problem is you've already created a non argument. You'll be pushed to find sensible people who believe that light skill training on it's own with no sparring will make you awesome in a fight, which are the terms you've framed.

[kungfoozer]

There's a lot of variation in IP. There are closed fist methods, hook hand methods, chop methods. There's qigong and liniments too. But at it's core, IP is just hitting a bag.

I was talking about a big heavy bag and not a stationary little bean filled bag on a table or against a wall. The average ip session does wonders for cardio...not.

What happens when the ip master can't land his fabled single powerful hit due to lack of stamina, striking skills, reflexes, etc? He gets beat.

[kungfoozer]

The problem is you've already created a non argument. You'll be pushed to find sensible people who believe that light skill training on it's own with no sparring will make you awesome in a fight, which are the terms you've framed.


Obviously. In the frame of developing combat skills light skills have provide no help. That is the frame. Light skills is good recreation and makes you feel special. It's funny that no on can actually do them like the old timers and all the old timers that could do it are conveniently dead.

[David Jamieson]

You can't make a statement that golden ball sac training helps develop combat skills and then not discuss it. All talking points and no proof just like when you discuss politics.

Is this another alias for 1bad? :rolleyes:

Did you start this thread to yank someone's chain maybe?

What would you like to discuss about golden egg that you can't or haven't read elsewhere?

politics requires proof? of what? lol

anyway, if you can't grasp the idea, you can't grasp it. I'm not your teacher. :)

[kungfoozer]

Is this another alias for 1bad? :rolleyes:

Did you start this thread to yank someone's chain maybe?

What would you like to discuss about golden egg that you can't or haven't read elsewhere?

politics requires proof? of what? lol

anyway, if you can't grasp the idea, you can't grasp it. I'm not your teacher. :)

If you were my teacher...teaching me golden egg...I would call the cops on you. I hope you don't teach golden egg to your kids class. Genius.

And finally, if you were my teacher, I know I would receive a royal beating in a fight or sparring match.

[David Jamieson]

If you were my teacher...teaching me golden egg...I would call the cops on you. I hope you don't teach golden egg to your kids class. Genius.

And finally, if you were my teacher, I know I would receive a royal beating in a fight or sparring match.


sure kid, whatever. :rolleyes: lol

[Ben Gash]

Obviously. In the frame of developing combat skills light skills have provide no help. That is the frame. Light skills is good recreation and makes you feel special. It's funny that no on can actually do them like the old timers and all the old timers that could do it are conveniently dead.

They're good for general athleticism and explosiveness. The problem is when people replace the reality of light training (a fusion of plyometrics and parkour) with fantasies about flying.

[David Jamieson]

I don't think this pig will learn to whistle... :p

[kungfoozer]

They're good for general athleticism and explosiveness. The problem is when people replace the reality of light training (a fusion of plyometrics and parkour) with fantasies about flying.

I agree with that. When people talking about dead teachers jumping down from the roofs of tall buildings, landing on plastic bottles, and not damaging the bottle they sound kooky.

[bawang]

I was talking about a big heavy bag and not a stationary little bean filled bag on a table or against a wall. The average ip session does wonders for cardio...not.

What happens when the ip master can't land his fabled single powerful hit due to lack of stamina, striking skills, reflexes, etc? He gets beat.

sandbag is a part of chinese kung fu training

[David Jamieson]

sandbag is a part of chinese kung fu training

so are hanging bags, weights, running, climbing, etc etc etc.

[bawang]

I was talking about a big heavy bag
heavy bag is for footwork. its soft like a fat man's belly. nice try my friend you troll with honor but not strong enough

[GeneChing]

I've seen IP methods that use 100lb+ bags. I've also seen methods that involved footwork drills with the strikes. It's more formal than the type of shadowboxing you might associate with working a heavy bag in boxing, but it does work cardio. There are iron shin methods too where they work heavy bags and kick trees like in muay thai. I saw a lot of tree kicking at Shaolin and Wudang.

Like many critics of kung fu, you're basing your opinions on a very limited perspective of what you think kung fu is, kungfoozer. There's so much more.

[David Jamieson]

heavy bag is for footwork. its soft like a fat man's belly. nice try my friend you troll with honor but not strong enough

not my bag. lol

top=soft
middle=moderate hardness
bottom= like freaking concrete.

Heavy bag is for ranging, force feedback, structural correction, cardio, power development, conditioning. Footwork is better worked solo and then with a partner, same as slip work.

[bawang]

not my bag. lol

top=soft
middle=moderate hardness
bottom= like freaking concrete.



the top is soft because the soft fabric sinks to the bottom. its all soft fabric inside.

[David Jamieson]

the top is soft because the soft fabric sinks to the bottom. its all soft fabric inside. if u use sand with tough hemp cover two punches and your hand bleed.

Do more iron palm and toughen your skin, it won't break on the bag anymore.
and if you need wraps, use them. It's always better to use gloves on a bag, not so much for your hands as for the protection of the bag and cleanliness of the bag.

[TenTigers]

Like many critics of kung fu, you're basing your opinions on a very limited perspective of what you think kung fu is, Mysterious Power. There's so much more.
there, fixed for ya.:rolleyes:

[bawang]

Do more iron palm and toughen your skin, it won't break on the bag anymore.

with hemp fabric it cuts your knuckles. its supposed to do that so u build callous. trust me mang i hit my school gym everlast bag all the time its a walk iin the park compared to sandbag

[David Jamieson]

with hemp fabric it cuts your knuckles. its supposed to do that so u build callous

:rolleyes: Dude, someone put macho bull**** into your cheerios.

Your skin is an organ. One of the most important ones you have, although, they are all important.

It is not good to break the skin.

Thickness of the skin is acquired gradually with the shaolin method. :)

come by and i will show it to you! really! You'll like it.

[bawang]

no pls what if u rape me no thx

thats not macho mang. sandbag punching is external skill. u cut ur knuckles and build callous. its traditional northern beginner traning.

[kungfoozer]

no pls what if u rape me no thx

thats not macho mang. sandbag punching is external skill. u cut ur knuckles and build callous. its traditional northern beginner traning.

You aren't suppers to cut your hands up. Then you wouldn't be able to train bag work. Heavy bag training is a part of Kung foo but that isn't ip training. When you hit a heavy bag you are training power in you strikes not conditioning each part of your hand. Wanksta tryin to be gangsta

[David Jamieson]

no pls what if u rape me no thx

thats not macho mang. sandbag punching is external skill. u cut ur knuckles and build callous. its traditional northern beginner traning.

yeesh, someone likes to spend time in recovery then. It's hard to progress if you spend a lot of time just healing.

It can be achieved with much less damage to the hands.

[David Jamieson]

no pls what if u rape me no thx

thats not macho mang. sandbag punching is external skill. u cut ur knuckles and build callous. its traditional northern beginner traning.

lol, you're not my type.

[bawang]

yeesh, someone likes to spend time in recovery then. It's hard to progress if you spend a lot of time just healing.


u spend the next day lifting weights

You aren't suppers to cut your hands up.

ur not supposed to but it happens when u go hard for 30 min non stop. in traditnoial kung fu traning you get a beginner to cut his hands a lot to get tuff. then after some time u stop before skin breaks

[kungfoozer]

at the beginner it will cut ur hand whether u like it or not . ive been using my coleege gym heavy bag now and it feels like silly putty and u never cut ur hands

You don't spell well for someone that's in college. :)

The pus from your hands would infect the bag and if you have any communicable diseases they will be on the bag. You want to spread your Chinese HIV to us?

[David Jamieson]

u spend the next day lifting weights

urrrgh. so you can heal cuts in a day?

for conditioning, your windows are 72 hours long for the most part.

If you don't repeat within 72 hours, whatever you did will go away and need to be rebuilt.

Unless of course you are taking the extremely long path to fitness and conditioning. :p

In Iron palm, the opening method has you repeat the falling hand exercises daily with growing intensity as you use different media at each stage through the process.

By the end, you'll have the same abilities as all the guys posting vids here slap massacring the concrete blocks and bricks. But learn the proper method, it's not hard, is very basic and demands consistency.

The methods of shaolin Kung Fu development for strength and conditioning are always for the most part gradual and long lasting effect. Mainly because they were an integrated and lifelong practice aimed towards optimum quality of living and as well, following Buddhist principles, particularly those of Ch'an in the case of Shaolin.

[David Jamieson]

that's boxers brine.

when i boxed, we had a couple of buckets of brine in the locker room for hand soaks.

[bawang]

i dont know what that is but my first teacher said he knew shaolin boxing and for iron fist skill he said u dip ur hands in salt water then punch a sand bag, then drip in salt water or vinegar again then put on medicine and thats what i did in high school. i didnt make it clear when i started i cut my hands, after a while i didnt cut my hand anymoar.

[David Jamieson]

i dont know what that is but my first teacher said he knew shaolin boxing and for iron fist skill he said u dip ur hands in salt water then punch a sand bag, then drip in salt water or vinegar again then put on medicine and thats what i did in high school. i didnt make it clear when i started i cut my hands, after a while i didnt cut my hand anymoar.

boxers brine is used after. sometimes it's heated. It helps teh hands heal between practice sessions.

the dit da jow used will be formulated according to what it's needed for.
most off the shelf are the equivalent of a535 or other heated topical muscle analgesics.

Others contain substances that are strong and eliminate blood statis and decrease the amount of time it takes to heal.

boxers brine is more a preventative measure.

[bawang]

You want to spread your Chinese HIV to us?
ya
looxcgfgfgfgl

[Drake]

What's the point of banning someone if they can just get another username and pop right back in?

[Yum Cha]

no pls what if u rape me no thx

thats not macho mang. sandbag punching is external skill. u cut ur knuckles and build callous. its traditional northern beginner traning.


Southern too.

Think, bare hand "real" striking. No wait, let me wrap up first? You train unwrapped to strengthen your grip, and you learn to hit spot on, so you don't slide and rip the skin. Stop when you bleed and it starts making dots. Back in the day, the bag looked like a Bor Atom. There was so much blood on those pads, these days, you'd never see it.

you hit it soft to start Sui Lum style, just like IP.... and work up.

I worked mostly on wall mounted sand bags. Never came to terms with the hanging one, preferred western, x-long style. Always used gloves on those.

[MightyB]

Q: Irrelevant kung foo practices to that don't produce combat skills?

A: Mouthboxing

[taai gihk yahn]

and then Mysterious Pooper returns w another lame screen name and the same M.O.

IMPO, coming back to a forum after you have been banned is like getting back together with an ex- who had dumped you; meaning that you have no self-respect and handle rejection by simply coming back for more; which is sad in both cases but at least with the ex- there's sex involved...

[MightyB]

Kung Fu is fine as long as you don't fall into the esoteric traps that seem to go hand and hand with the kung fu culture.

But, then again... maybe that's what you're into... and then they're not traps.

---

Really it's pointless to argue or have an opinion about skills or combat or whatever since it's all in the context of the usage and goals of the practitioner.

Is it fair to say that an olympic gold medalist in TKD doesn't have combat skills because he can't beat a boxer in a boxing match? In the context of olympic TKD - he has skills. Same can be said for a Wing Chunner who dominates the world of chi sau. In the context of Chi Sau - he's a bad @ss.

as far as kung fu and the deadly thing... in some contexts the too deadly may be the correct interpretation... if and here's the big IF - I can't believe I'm saying this - If the person has been trained correctly. For instance - in 7* there's 8 hitting points, and 8 non-hitting points. It's not rocket science or a secret death touch either because an example of a non-hitting point is the trachea, or using both hands to palm slap someone's ears - ever been cuffed in one ear? It fuk$ you up. But you have to be trained to land those strikes hard in open combat and people don't train that way. They just don't because they don't know how (the esoteric trap). Krav stylists know how and die hard militaristic stylists train it though. Kung fu used to train it.

anyway- it's all in the context of the user and how they want to use their training and what they're training to be able to do.

[Yum Cha]

; which is sad in both cases but at least with the ex- there's sex involved...

You got sex? All I got was restraining orders...:mad:

[PalmStriker]

I was talking about a big heavy bag and not a stationary little bean filled bag on a table or against a wall. The average ip session does wonders for cardio...not.

What happens when the ip master can't land his fabled single powerful hit due to lack of stamina, striking skills, reflexes, etc? He gets beat.

Foundation strengths =good Kungfu. Kung fu is known for development of speed. The fastest/greatest impact punch record holder is held by a type of freshwater shrimp that is equal to the force of a 22 bullet fired at blank range. Don't ever ask an IP seasoned practitioner to take his best punch/shot. ;)

[EarthDragon]

LOL i thought this was mysterious power. why do people log onto a kung fu forum and dis kung fu?

please do us a favor log onto facebook adn tell them how stupid it is to share personal information woith complete strangers....

[PalmStriker]

there, fixed for ya.:rolleyes:

That does sound like the "misconstrudeous person". Ha!:D

[YouKnowWho]

6. Complicated compliant drills
This is a test to your combat knowledge. A good chess player will think many steps ahead.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

You got sex? All I got was restraining orders...:mad:

You too, sh**it I thought I was the only one!:D

[Syn7]

heavy bag is for footwork. its soft like a fat man's belly. nice try my friend you troll with honor but not strong enough

:eek::D you funny like you trong!

[Syn7]

i think its pretty ignorant to simply call all kung fu non effective... but its more than fair to call alot of kung fu non effective...

some people never find a good teacher, the market is so saturated with fraud... for others it takes years of bad experiences to actually find a good teacher... unfortunately this process pushes alotta would be tcma guys away from kung fu altogether... blame it on the quacks tho, not the cage fighters...

[Yum Cha]

Foundation strengths =good Kungfu. Kung fu is known for development of speed. The fastest/greatest impact punch record holder is held by a type of freshwater shrimp that is equal to the force of a 22 bullet fired at blank range. Don't ever ask an IP seasoned practitioner to take his best punch/shot. ;)

Great, now were gonna hafta listen to all the shrimps pop off...

[MightyB]

i think its pretty ignorant to simply call all kung fu non effective... but its more than fair to call alot of kung fu non effective...

some people never find a good teacher, the market is so saturated with fraud... for others it takes years of bad experiences to actually find a good teacher... unfortunately this process pushes alotta would be tcma guys away from kung fu altogether... blame it on the quacks tho, not the cage fighters...

I'm starting to think that it has less to do with the instructors and more to do with the students (and I guess when those students become instructors).

Let's face it, the majority of people train kung fu as a social activity. Because they do it in this way - they lack focus and intensity. I think the real secret to kung fu is to be able to train properly with intensity.

What is intensity? I knew a kid when I was growing up that stabbed a guy in the leg with a wire bottomed real estate sign because he didn't buy the kid beer. That's intensity because nobody in their right mind fights a bat sh!t crazy mofo. Imagine channeling that type of bat-sh!t crazy and incorporating that into MA practice.

[RenDaHai]

On an interesting note, light skills have genuinely helped me on several occasions.

In china I have to dodge a speeding car every time i cross the **** road, i swear they aim for you. Any way all that gymnastic like training has really paid off. Plus a few situations where escape has been the only sensible option....it helps to be flexible and be able to leap and shrink your body.

All in all I say in terms of 'Practically' helping me in my life my light skills have helped me as much or more than my fighting skills....

I mean, when we say something is practical, it means applicable to real life right?

Just sayin' is all.

[kungfoozer]

On an interesting note, light skills have genuinely helped me on several occasions.

In china I have to dodge a speeding car every time i cross the **** road, i swear they aim for you. Any way all that gymnastic like training has really paid off. Plus a few situations where escape has been the only sensible option....it helps to be flexible and be able to leap and shrink your body.

All in all I say in terms of 'Practically' helping me in my life my light skills have helped me as much or more than my fighting skills....

I mean, when we say something is practical, it means applicable to real life right?

Just sayin' is all.


You serious? How is this different from walking fast? Once some relatives of the ba gua master, Chung Ting Hua, were being interviewed. The interviewer asked them for stories about him using his ba gua. Here's how the story went: "One night Chung was out late. There was a curfew in his city abd after a certain time you can't get in because they close a big gate. Chung new this and took short cuts through the woods. He saw the gate closing abd used his fast ba gua mud step to enter the city before the gate shut.

The funny part is that the interviewer was so excited by the build up. He was like, "Yeah, yeah! What happened next?". And then when the woman mentioned that all Chung did was really walk fast to get in the light in the interviewers eyes died suddenly.


Sex with an ex is the best because then you don't have to hang put with them and the drama after. Wam bam thank mam.

[David Jamieson]

You serious? How is this different from walking fast? Once some relatives of the ba gua master, Chung Ting Hua, were being interviewed. The interviewer asked them for stories about him using his ba gua. Here's how the story went: "One night Chung was out late. There was a curfew in his city abd after a certain time you can't get in because they close a big gate. Chung new this and took short cuts through the woods. He saw the gate closing abd used his fast ba gua mud step to enter the city before the gate shut.

The funny part is that the interviewer was so excited by the build up. He was like, "Yeah, yeah! What happened next?". And then when the woman mentioned that all Chung did was really walk fast to get in the light in the interviewers eyes died suddenly.


Sex with an ex is the best because then you don't have to hang put with them and the drama after. Wam bam thank mam.


Dude, most people who don't know anything, haven't done anyting and want to know something just STFU and listen to others who do have those things under their belt. But you are a mere troll.

Crikey, we just cleaned the place up and you d1cks are flooding back in.

Im outta here for a while. Stinks like sh1t in here.

[kungfoozer]

Dude, most people who don't know anything, haven't done anyting and want to know something just STFU and listen to others who do have those things under their belt. But you are a mere troll.

Crikey, we just cleaned the place up and you d1cks are flooding back in.

Im outta here for a while. Stinks like sh1t in here.

I'm not understanding your anger toward me. This thread is an honest look at training. I'm also not understanding how you not being here is a bad thing. Let's be clear. It is a good thing.

[taai gihk yahn]

I'm not understanding your anger toward me. This thread is an honest look at training. I'm also not understanding how you not being here is a bad thing. Let's be clear. It is a good thing.

what's sad is that you didn't take the hint the first time, which is that no one appreciates your presence here; you contribute nothing to the community, and you fail to understand the reason; your posts are like a broken record; you are not going to wake anyone up from whatever delusion you may think that they are under; so there is no point to your being here; why can't you understand this?

[kungfoozer]

what's sad is that you didn't take the hint the first time, which is that no one appreciates your presence here; you contribute nothing to the community, and you fail to understand the reason; your posts are like a broken record; you are not going to wake anyone up from whatever delusion you may think that they are under; so there is no point to your being here; why can't you understand this?

I'm just here to get advice, give advice, and engage in discussion. I don't understand why anyone would have an issue with this. Have I said something to offend you?

Your defense mechanisms are strong. Perhaps it's easier to try and tear people down before they do so to you. That seems to be your modus operandi when posting at people you dislike. I can't help you. You do tai chi and move around slowly with your arms waving around in the air. It's sad but it's not my problem.

Likely you will rail back with your big words and bad grammar(paradox).

[hskwarrior]

the way some people on this ENTIRE forum go on like a broken record about TCMA is mind boggling to me. i don't understand why people who don't like TCMA come to a TCMA forum unless he's insecure about his manhood. why all the bickering? maybe because some of these delusional "REAL FIGHTERS" LOL want to be the ONE who changed TCMA and made it better by "constantly repeating OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER about why TCMA sucks in their eyes.

" you are all THEORETICAL NON FIGHTERS".......its like a form of tourettes or a bad case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I do kind of find that funny at times cause i highly doubt the ones who are spewing that mess are actually out there fighting themselves.

[hskwarrior]

I'm just here to get advice, give advice, and engage in discussion.

Point out a POSITIVELY CONSTRUCTIVE thread you've been a part of. :D

[Lucas]

You serious? How is this different from walking fast? Once some relatives of the ba gua master, Chung Ting Hua, were being interviewed. The interviewer asked them for stories about him using his ba gua. Here's how the story went: "One night Chung was out late. There was a curfew in his city abd after a certain time you can't get in because they close a big gate. Chung new this and took short cuts through the woods. He saw the gate closing abd used his fast ba gua mud step to enter the city before the gate shut.

The funny part is that the interviewer was so excited by the build up. He was like, "Yeah, yeah! What happened next?". And then when the woman mentioned that all Chung did was really walk fast to get in the light in the interviewers eyes died suddenly.


Sex with an ex is the best because then you don't have to hang put with them and the drama after. Wam bam thank mam.

essentially what he is saying is that gymnastic type training over a long period helps him be an agile quick person and he utilizes that on a daily basis. you just have a problem when he used a term called 'light skills' but it means the same thing.

are you saying being agile and acrobatic doesnt help you be agile and acrobatic?

:rolleyes:

seriously is that what you are saying? because thats pretty stupid if you are.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times, being scrawny, pathetic, and weak is obviously the way to go.:D

[EarthDragon]

kungfoozer
no one wants your advice, no one needs your adive, no one has asked for your advice.

go back to playing video games online ....... you more welcome there.

[SoCo KungFu]

Parkour is the **** yo. Its easily more effective than martial arts. You can look awesome, have an awesome body, be awesome doing awesome things. And while kung fu may help you stay in shape and look good at certain things, Parkour will make you monies with invitations from Jacky Chan stunt team.

[David Jamieson]

Parkour is the **** yo. Its easily more effective than martial arts. You can look awesome, have an awesome body, be awesome doing awesome things. And while kung fu may help you stay in shape and look good at certain things, Parkour will make you monies with invitations from Jacky Chan stunt team.

will it make me grow a beard and score hot chicks all day long too?

[YouKnowWho]

This thread just remind a thread that someone started not too long ago, "BJJ takes down Kung fu every time (I have always believed it should be the other way around)". I truly don't know the "intention" of this thread. It seems to me that the person who started this thread had already made up his mind and he only want to hear what he likes to hear.

[SoCo KungFu]

will it make me grow a beard and score hot chicks all day long too?

Yes but only if by hot chicks you mean those with mustache and arm hair.

[KC Elbows]

Now, can we discuss what martial art training helps your life, but no bs arguments like;

-teaches determination, I mean, clearly it doesn't teach determination as well as, say, sawing off your arm in order to free yourself from a rockslide on a desolate mountain setting.

-relaxes you, I mean, is this even quantifiable? Clearly humans are animals, we aren't meant to relax. Ligers never sleep, they're like the little girl from The Ring.

-Is fun.

-Keeps you in decent shape. Again, what is quantifiable about that? Decent? Again, we're like animals, pounding off a staggering 100 push ups like Mysterious Power and longing for workplace affairs, just like some sort of business casual Redbull slamming hagfish, merciless in our pursuit of entering the urethra of conditioning and consuming the soft insides. You people with your forms and handstand push ups and chin ups and heavy bag work clearly aren't in decent shape, compared with Mysterious Power, or Dorothy Hamill at her prime. Why aren't you like Dorothy Hamill?

Forms.

[David Jamieson]

mediterranean girls it is then!

[SoCo KungFu]

mediterranean girls it is then!

Dibs on unibrow?

[SoCo KungFu]

Now, can we discuss what martial art training helps your life, but no bs arguments like;

-teaches determination, I mean, clearly it doesn't teach determination as well as, say, sawing off your arm in order to free yourself from a rockslide on a desolate mountain setting.

-relaxes you, I mean, is this even quantifiable? Clearly humans are animals, we aren't meant to relax. Ligers never sleep, they're like the little girl from The Ring.

-Is fun.

-Keeps you in decent shape. Again, what is quantifiable about that? Decent? Again, we're like animals, pounding off a staggering 100 push ups like Mysterious Power and longing for workplace affairs, just like some sort of business casual Redbull slamming hagfish, merciless in your pursuit of entering the urethra of conditioning and consuming the soft insides. You people with your forms and handstand push ups and chin ups and heavy bag work clearly aren't in decent shape, compared with Mysterious Power, or Dorothy Hamill at her prime. Why aren't you like Dorothy Hamill?

Forms.

Ligers have preferred skills of magic. They have good chi. Humans cannot compete. Never try Liger form, its too dangerous

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://lotsofsecrets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/leticia-z-v-66-01.jpg

[YouKnowWho]

The "iron body" is always a good skill to have.

[KC Elbows]

Ligers have preferred skills of magic. They have good chi. Humans cannot compete. Never try Liger form, its too dangerous

You traditionalists and your too deadly liger forms. Meanwhile us anonymous real ligers of life will beat you up and embarrass you, we're all like if you bred Silva and Fedor's lines, but with more time spent online harrassing people. It's like Spartacus, except we're all Shamrock at the end.

[KC Elbows]

http://lotsofsecrets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/leticia-z-v-66-01.jpg

I wish she'd stop stealing my roses.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just had to share:
http://www.exotics.com/ImageWithWatermarkHandler.ashx?PhotoID=1521&TYPE=3

[taai gihk yahn]

I'm just here to get advice, give advice, and engage in discussion. I don't understand why anyone would have an issue with this. Have I said something to offend you?
no, you haven't offended me, and there is nothing that you can say that would offend me, because it's just an internet forum; that being said, your posting style is antagonistic; if you cannot understand this, then you are clearly a social moron; however, I think you know exactly what I am talking about, but you just are playing dumb, which is, at best, disingenuous;


Your defense mechanisms are strong.
stop paraphrasing the Dark Lord;


Perhaps it's easier to try and tear people down before they do so to you.
lol, please, by all means, tear me down :rolleyes:


That seems to be your modus operandi when posting at people you dislike.
it's hard to like or dislike someone you don't know who is posting anonymously on an internet forum; so i can't speak to that; but the content of what you post is antagonistic and redundant, and as such, your presence does not contribute to the community dynamic in a productive manner; since you appear to thrive on a never-ending polemic, why bother being here when no one is interested in your ani-TCMA PSA's?


I can't help you.
and yet the planets still retain their orbits :rolleyes:


You do tai chi and move around slowly with your arms waving around in the air.
LOL, you actually have no idea what it is that I do, nor how I do it; but that's ok, please assume away; tell me, when I move my arms around slowly, are the unicorns singing in major thirds or major fifths in harmony with the elves and fauns?


It's sad
no, what's sad is that you were banned as Mysterious Power, you come back like a mongrel cur with your tail between your legs looking for more scraps, and when you get called on it might quick, you can't even man up about it; THAT'S sad;


but it's not my problem.
very true; but then you apparently have an already full plate of other issues in that department anyway


Likely you will rail back with your big words and bad grammar(paradox).
wow, that's original - showing how well you "know" me by a) pointing out the manner in which I post (as far as "bad grammar", what you are referring to is that I use a very "conversational" style when I write - I save the "good grammar" for my professional work, and it seems to work just fine) and b) "predicting" that I will continue to post in the future the way that I have posted in the past - wow, you sure got me there, LOL, LOL, LOL :rolleyes:

[Shima Wara]

This thread is a joke. Why on Earth would you train conditioning processes without training combat application? If someone chooses to do this, it does not make the practice irrelevant, it makes the person irrelevant. Iron palm is not useless unless you make it that way.

[YouKnowWho]

This thread is a joke.

This is the problem that when someone does not understand TCMA but pretend he does.

[GeneChing]

Chill out guys. I'll be grumpy next Monday, and I love to ban people arbitrarily when I'm grumpy.

http://dailymoxie.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/grumpy.bmp

T.G.I.F.

Have a great weekend, everyone!

[Violent Designs]

this thread

http://tehresistance.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/602__image_091.jpg

[David Jamieson]

no. it's this.
http://www.bigpawoutfitters.com/www/2005/images/black-bear-header.jpg

[Syn7]

kung fu has helped me in "real" situations... i'll take that experience over the word of a tcma hater anyday... that being said, you guys seem to have had so many mma antagonists in here that you, alot of you, are overly defensive... i dont mind having this discussion at all... i'll even play devils advocate when i think one position is under-represented... i love fighting... period... honest truth... kung fu has really helped me in my life, more than just fighting... it brought me balance, with the chinese philosophy that is ever so attached to cma... i wouldnt change that for anything.... but i do find myself almost embarasssed by some of the people(frauds) the tcma community is willing to accept and endure... atleast here in N. america... i cant speak for everywhere else... but here, its almost sad, some of these people claiming tcma fame...

[hskwarrior]

kung fu has helped me in "real" situations... i'll take that experience over the word of a tcma hater anyday... that being said, you guys seem to have had so many mma antagonists in here that you, alot of you, are overly defensive...

This is why i don't get involved with these types of conversations too much. To state that TCMA is falling behind in its purpose only needs to be said once.

When the TCMA haters beat that dead horse over and over and over again, TCMA sits up on the fence just watching, laughing, and encouraging the haters to keep beating that horse. "Hey man, that horse ain't dead yet, hit it some more".....LOL.


but i do find myself almost embarasssed by some of the people(frauds) the tcma community is willing to accept and endure... atleast here in N. america... i cant speak for everywhere else... but here, its almost sad, some of these people claiming tcma fame...


you're not alone in the feeling bro. I feel the same way. I'm happy to come from a good lineage, but i agree, it's embarrassing to have gung fu wierdo's in the world, and i can see why the TCMA haters hate TCMA the way they do. That is the reason why i try to fill in the gaps as best as possible.

[PalmStriker]

Sidesplitting! Lol ! :d Quote: LOL, you actually have no idea what it is that I do, nor how I do it; but that's ok, please assume away; tell me, when I move my arms around slowly, are the unicorns singing in major thirds or major fifths in harmony with the elves and fauns?

[PalmStriker]

Just had to share:
http://www.exotics.com/ImageWithWatermarkHandler.ashx?PhotoID=1521&TYPE=3

WOW ! Jaguar! Or is that Leopard pattern?

[PalmStriker]

This thread is a joke. Why on Earth would you train conditioning processes without training combat application? If someone chooses to do this, it does not make the practice irrelevant, it makes the person irrelevant. Iron palm is not useless unless you make it that way.

":) Kung Fu " literally means doing everything you do with good form and concentration. Fighting skills are only part of being a kungfu practitioner.

[Syn7]

WOW ! Jaguar! Or is that Leopard pattern?

i always thought jaguars were black... apparently those are in the minority to the spotted ones... i like cats, i'd like to take the time and really learn more about em someday... very majestic predator...

[Syn7]

I wish she'd stop stealing my roses.

you wanna kiss her flower...

[SoCo KungFu]

i always thought jaguars were black... apparently those are in the minority to the spotted ones... i like cats, i'd like to take the time and really learn more about em someday... very majestic predator...

Jaguars (Panthera onca) can be either yellow or black. Both actually have spots, the black ones are just more difficult to see. The same is true of leopards (Panthera pardus). What people usually call panthers are just jaguars and leopards that have the gene expression for dark fur (which is a result of moving from plain to forested grounds). Genus Panthera includes lions, tigers, jaguars and leopards (and their ancestors of course).

This should also put to rest the long debate of is it panther or leopard style? Jaguar inhabits the Americas so that's out. So from that it leaves leopard (as panther is a misnomer of the genus which includes all 4 of the major big cats).

See spots :D And yes I agree they are beautiful
http://www.itsnature.org/Ground/images/article-pics/black-leopard-3.jpg

[Syn7]

thanx for tge lesson...:rolleyes:

[Violent Designs]

well said

Syn7 and sifu Frank.

[Violent Designs]

thanx for tge lesson...:rolleyes:

go torrent a documentary called "Eye of the Leopard"

it's about a female leopard's journey from a baby into adulthood in Africa.

[Shaolin Rasta]

You obviously have never been clocked by someone who has trained iron palm AND has good combat skills! Really hurts! All practices that don't produce combat skills are not necessarily irrelevant. There are many areas of training that don't necessarily have direct combat applications like basic conditioning. But yet try to be a good fighter without them! Get it? Also depends what you consider "combat skills". If a guy's iron palm is such that it can crack your skull, I would say that qualifies as a "combat skill".

[Syn7]

You obviously have never been clocked by someone who has trained iron palm AND has good combat skills! Really hurts! All practices that don't produce combat skills are not necessarily irrelevant. There are many areas of training that don't necessarily have direct combat applications like basic conditioning. But yet try to be a good fighter without them! Get it? Also depends what you consider "combat skills". If a guy's iron palm is such that it can crack your skull, I would say that qualifies as a "combat skill".

word.... some just dont get that tho... and they dont want to understand, and prolly never will understand... some people have only dealt with quacks, so they really dont know whuttup... but blame that as much on fraud tcma "masters" as much as lazy martial artist who dont search hard enough for realistic systems...

theres lots of blame to throw around in this whole farce...

[kungfoozer]

I definitely believe it is possible to develop ip. Sher Lew is a perfect example of this. He has cracked marble.

He would be the perfect example of someone who could apply it in combat. Has he applied it on someone really trying to hurt him or can he only beat up non-living objects?


And finally ask yourself if an individual has time to both develop the ability to break really really hard objects and train combat at the same time. None of the so called ip masters can break marble and they train combat. Is it possible to develop both to a high level? Name some current practicioners that have done it.

[teetsao]

depends on what you call high level. i beleive my bro. is prbably one of the leaders in america today wit his 4inch plus 2 inch unspaced concrete break. he trains in bagua with me and wing chun on his own. we alo have special training we do to develop short power and dramatic ********y skills. so to me this is developing bot to a high degree. now does he go out and try it on people?? no. this is not ethical or moral, but we know it is there if we ever need it. we spar and work some things pretty hard, but we do not in any way strike each other full power even with pads as it is to unpreditctable as to what could happen to someone. our teacher fractured a students foot through his shoe by slapping his kick out of the air whe he did a sneak attack on our teacher to see how fast he was. he found out the hard way. we train so that the mind activates the power when needed,almost subconsciously. it has to be trained in this manner as you will not get warm ups or apply jow on the street.

[ginosifu]

kungfoozer:
I practice IP, I can hit pretty hard. But I also do sparring practice, shuai chiao, San Shou and dabbled in Full Contact. A person can do IP and can be great a beating up bricks, but if they have no skill in fighting they may not be able to use it. The ability to fight is different for each person depending on how they train, their inate abilities etc etc. IP is a just another training tool for a kung fu practioner. Some people use it, some people do not.

To say that IP does not work is just ignorant. IP does not affect the ability to fight. It enhances the ability to hit hard and protects their hands from injury.

ginosifu

[kungfoozer]

kungfoozer:
I practice IP, I can hit pretty hard. But I also do sparring practice, shuai chiao, San Shou and dabbled in Full Contact. A person can do IP and can be great a beating up bricks, but if they have no skill in fighting they may not be able to use it. The ability to fight is different for each person depending on how they train, their inate abilities etc etc. IP is a just another training tool for a kung fu practioner. Some people use it, some people do not.

To say that IP does not work is just ignorant. IP does not affect the ability to fight. It enhances the ability to hit hard and protects their hands from injury.

ginosifu

Is hitting hard the pinnacle of ip? Only ip people can hit hard? Can you break granite like Sher Lew? I'm glad you do all those other things because you might be someone who can actually utilize your ip skill in combat. Does Sher Lew train these other combat activities? Will you ever get to the level of Sher Lew in IP?



I don't mind the combination of gymnastics, polymetrics, and agility training. But they aren't what people are talking about when they say the term, "light skills." To say this is a blatant lie. Otherwise they would just say polymetrics. When a person says light skills they're referring to supernatural abilities that have never existed. Kung foo people will back track and say they were just talking about gymnastics but actually they weren't. Anyone care to bring up the story of Lam Sang jumping around like a monkey? Please please do it.

[ginosifu]

Kungfoozer:
IP training is basically hand conditioning and for some styles, they have a an actual "style" of hitting. Kwong Wing Lam (my teacher's sifu) told me years ago that some people practiced IP as a complete style. They do no other styles or practice kung fu, just IP and IP hitting style. IP without some kind of martial art sparring / fighting / San Shou is just health / Conditioning. However combined with any kung fu style can add power to your hits and help prevent injury.

As far as Light skill: I teach a Light skill program that involves jumping, then adding weights and jumping, then sparring with weights etc etc. Now you can call it polymetrics or you can call it light skill or you can call whatever you want. The fact is that if you are quicker and faster, more light on your feet, you may have an advantage over your opponent. Remember fighting skill still must be present or you are just exercising. All exercise regimes can add to any fighting style.

Now as far as legends of people jumping on roof tops.... you must take it with a grain of salt. Yes they seem a bit outrageous, but there is alot of truth hidden behind the exagerations. To make your teacher seem like a super hero is common for all ethnic groups / all races / religions / communities etc etc.

I think that your a bit closed minded. I am not trying insult you... please I hope you dont take this the wrong way. Please try and be open to all peoples points of view and try and put yourself in their shoes. All styles of Martial Arts have good and bad points. What ever style you practice, work hard and become a good fighter (or whatever your goal is), and try not to condem anything until you try it your self.

ginosifu

ps. We never broke bricks in our school? I think I can break bricks? I was never attacked by a brick!

[teetsao]

some old traditional light skill training (qing gong) this is to help you to learn to "know" oyur own weight and learn to be perfect in balance and timing. it will strengthing your leaping ability. we do some but it is not my point of interest,i just practice it enough to stay up on it. i can leap to a level above my waist standing still, i think we put it in our last video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkpde4vSuwc

[Syn7]

some old traditional light skill training (qing gong) this is to help you to learn to "know" oyur own weight and learn to be perfect in balance and timing. it will strengthing your leaping ability. we do some but it is not my point of interest,i just practice it enough to stay up on it. i can leap to a level above my waist standing still, i think we put it in our last video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkpde4vSuwc

unrelated... well sort of related...

this vid was linked to that vid you posted there...

at one point he does a backflip off a 20 foot ledge(2:40ish) and does the illest breakfall...

the video in itself is kinda cheesy... but the kid has skills... its long but it gets good around halfway...


DUH, forgot to post the link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9tPJgA4i-M

[ginosifu]

teetsao nice vid! a good demonstration of light skill.

KungFoozer look no jumping on rooftops!

ginosifu

[teetsao]

syn7, all i can say is WOW. i mean,WOW. that kid has some seruious skill. shows good body and limb strength,amazing agility.

gino, correct, this is the old traditional way,very usefula dn as yu said, no jumping up on a roof.

[Shima Wara]

This is the problem that when someone does not understand TCMA but pretend he does.

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. I was defending the practice. me and my brothers are well known for our I.P. breaking skills and understanding of herbology for dit da jow. We are also avid strength trainers and practitioners. If you believe that the old masters were practicing these disciplines without combat application as well, then you are wrong. Additionally, my brother teetsao just posted a good example of what "light body" skills can do for even a big and strong practitioner such as him. We believe in these practices and their applications. We do not believe in wild stories of mysticism, but in the greater stories of sheer discipline and dedication to the arts and practices. Believe that I am no pretender, as I consistently post videos of the proof as do my brothers.

Gene is right here, that these supplementary practices are valuable in assisting overall growth. Just like a boxer hits a heavy bag to improve power, a speed bag to improve rhythm and speed, and a top-bottom bag to improve agility and dodging, we hit an iron palm bag and condition our bodies through training processes.

[YouKnowWho]

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.
Actually what I have said was that I agree with you that "this thread is a joke". I was defending the practice too since I also train iron palm. This is the formula that I use:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5769/externalmedicine.jpg

I'm tired of those who does not train TCMA but come here to put down TCMA. If you train TCMA then "you are one of us (my Kung Fu brother)" and my comment should not concern you at all.

[Shima Wara]

YouKnowWho,


Sorry brother, my fault for misunderstanding. You are correct that there are many who trash talk things they do not understand or have never truly tried in a disciplined way. They assume, "well I hit my hand a few times and I'm not invincible, so I.P. is obviously useless." What you really have is a lot of paranoid men who are afraid they won't be prepared for their "next combat situation"(as if there were even a first) if they don't go study Guru so and so's GREATEST Filipino Knife system known to man!!!!!111!!11!1!!one!!!. They lack understanding that if they simply trained some simple processes for several years whilst also training combat, they would get the best of both worlds. I believe that traditional practices such as I.P. bring out our true potential, they do not limit it.

[kungfoozer]

Actually what I have said was that I agree with you that "this thread is a joke". I was defending the practice too since I also train iron palm. This is the formula that I use:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5769/externalmedicine.jpg

I'm tired of those who does not train TCMA but come here to put down TCMA. If you train TCMA then "you are one of us (my Kung Fu brother)" and my comment should not concern you at all.

I do train tcma but not the same way I used to and not with the same fervor. TCMA is only one part of the formula that I train. So I guess I'm one of you.

What I can't stand is people who give bad advice defending tcma like it is the king of the jungle. You posted on another forum to contact David Lin to get shuai jiao jackets. That's an example of bad advice. The reason his sc jackets are so cheap is because the ARE cheap. They tear like paper and are only good if two little girls are trying to throw each other. A real sc jacket costs close to a hundred dollars.

[kungfoozer]

I would argue that the real "light skill" is taking a fall gracefully without injury over and over again when being thrown by someone who outweighs you.

[YouKnowWho]

You posted on another forum to contact David Lin to get shuai jiao jackets. That's an example of bad advice. The reason his sc jackets are so cheap is because the ARE cheap. They tear like paper and are only good if two little girls are trying to throw each other. A real sc jacket costs close to a hundred dollars.

Are you joking? Those SC jacket material was made of US combat uniform material. I have never heard any SC jacket of those material can be teared apart by hands. It's much cooler to wear those material in the summer. The only draw back is sometime it may cut into your neck skin if your opponent pulls too hard.

I'll give anybody $1000 if they can tear apart a new David C. K. Lin's SC jacket by hands right in front of my eyes (I may charge $10 for taking the test).

[Lucas]

you should provide the jacket too, so its not tamper. (charge jacket price for test)

[kungfoozer]

Are you joking? Those SC jacket material was made of US combat uniform material. I have never heard any SC jacket of those material can be teared apart by hands. It's much cooler to wear those material in the summer. The only draw back is sometime it may cut into your neck skin if your opponent pulls too hard.

I'll give anybody $1000 if they can tear David C. K. Lin's SC jacket by his hands right in front of my eyes (I may charge $10 for taking the test).

Dude, I'm telling you that his jacket tore on me. Why do you think I brought it up? It also cut my neck. When I say tore I don't mean it tore in half. It ripped behind the neck when I was being thrown. Cheap cheap cheap.

I will mail you the jacket. Will you mail me a $1000 check?

[YouKnowWho]

Did it ripped behind the neck along the sawing line? If that's the case, it's the sawing problem and not the material problem. It's the same material as the US combat troup camouflage uniform material.

Sorry the test must be performed in person.

[David Jamieson]

I would argue that the real "light skill" is taking a fall gracefully without injury over and over again when being thrown by someone who outweighs you.

this is tumbling and hasn't got a lot to do with light skills.

[Lucas]

you learn at least to breakfall in almost every MA style

[EarthDragon]

shima to youknowwho

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.
LMAO, not to pick a fight shima, as I spoke to your brother on the phone and found him to be a very cool cat dn i am assuming you are as well, but, youknwowho knows more about TMCA than 95% of the members on here i 2 different languages... just sayin....

perhaps if resumes were in our signature sentacnes like this would not come up.

I once had a guy say to me , you must not have been doing kung for a long time:D...
I just posted back and said yeah not long at all.....


funny stuff people say

[kungfoozer]

Did it ripped behind the neck along the sawing line? If that's the case, it's the sawing problem and not the material problem. It's the same material as the US combat troup camouflage uniform material.

Sorry the test must be performed in person.

I don't remember but a rip is a rip. Either way it is not made well.

[kungfoozer]

this is tumbling and hasn't got a lot to do with light skills.

The fabled light skills are about landing lightly and easily. It would be logical to assume falling is the culmination of this skill and not jumping off of rooftops onto bottles.

[ginosifu]

Dude, I'm telling you that his jacket tore on me. Why do you think I brought it up? It also cut my neck. When I say tore I don't mean it tore in half. It ripped behind the neck when I was being thrown. Cheap cheap cheap.

I will mail you the jacket. Will you mail me a $1000 check?

Kungfoozer: buy SC Jackets from me! I will sell you good ones for $135 + shipping. There expensive but do not tear. Log onto FB and you can see them here:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/ginosifu

ginosifu

[bawang]

mongolian pink panties look way cooler than stupid shuai jiao jacket

[kungfoozer]

Kungfoozer: buy SC Jackets from me! I will sell you good ones for $135 + shipping. There expensive but do not tear. Log onto FB and you can see them here:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/ginosifu

ginosifu

I'll think about it but only if you promise to stop being so close-minded to my opinions. $135? How do you justify the cost?

[ginosifu]

I have to pay $125 for them @ wholesale I'm only making $10

there worth it, they last forever. Just think of it as an investment in your sc.

ginosifu

[TenTigers]

I pay 125 also, but I got them for 60 in Taiwan with pants and belt. Anyone want to plan a road trip?

[David Jamieson]

The fabled light skills are about landing lightly and easily. It would be logical to assume falling is the culmination of this skill and not jumping off of rooftops onto bottles.

think "up".

[Lucas]

Muggsy Bogues.