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fiercest tiger
03-21-2001, 05:34 AM
are any of you guys studying this system with vladmir?

how is the training and what does it consist of?

thanks in advance... :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

Rolling Elbow
03-24-2001, 06:12 AM
Didn't we go over this about two months ago?!!! or have you since met up with those two ninjas again but with different results this time?! Perhaps they wiped out a part of your memory or left you punch drunk? ;)

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

fiercest tiger
03-24-2001, 06:16 AM
where ya been?

no those ninjas are now cleaning my toilet at my kwoon. :D

i do remember but still wanting to see if anyone new has done systema lately! hows your going, have you been to vlads school or anything lately?

take care man :)

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

Stranger
03-24-2001, 06:42 AM
I have only been to one seminar with Vlad, and I enjoyed it very much.

Seminar started with a warm-up. The first set of exercises were designed for use in the field when standing-up and doing 25 jumping jacks is not an option. Vlad described how the relative cold of the ground and long hours spent motionless or barely moving leads to incredible cramping and soreness. When faced with a threat, you must be fairly confident that when you go to pounce on your prey that your legs aren't asleep or won't work. Most of the exercise were dynamic tension. While we were on the ground, he also convered ways of rolling over and turning around rapidly,without raising your profile of the ground. (this was intersting stuff, but admittedly not relevant to most of our lives).
The next set of exercises were done with a partner and resembled basic circus stunts of balancing a human being on various parts of your body and moving the weight around. This stuff was kind of hard.

We moved on to techniques: Sentry takedowns, double team takedowns, sentry neutralizations, and work against a team of opponents with your advantage being surprise. (once again, this stuff does not apply to most people's reality)

We learned how to abseil.

We had simmunition shootouts in a killhouse.

We practiced throwing the shovel and knife and then practice with them both handheld.

We practiced how to remove somebody from a vehicle and how to avoid having it done to you (carjacking).

We ran a commando-style obstacle course.

We participated in an ambush drill using real moving cars and simulated explosives.

Vlad routinely allowed people to attack in unchoreographed manner, and easily worked through it. He was friendly, approachable, and answered EVERY question asked of him with a solid technical demonstration containing the answer.

Don't buy into the TRS advertising (they overhype all of their products) and don't come expecting jedi mind power demoes. That aside, you will still be pleased. Vlad has talent and he shares it readily.

You might want to look up a guy who posts as "Arthur" on the Neijia froums, he is a Systema teacher with a long background in the internal Chinese martial arts and Chinese medicine.

Ford Prefect
03-24-2001, 06:36 PM
Stranger's right. Don't buy into all the hype. TRS is responsible for all the advertising. I've trained with the "Arthur" that he mentioned once, which is my only experience with Systema, but I'd have to say that it is a pretty legit system. It's definately geared completely toward real-world situations, and they train realistically as well.

"Who's house?"
"I said RUN's house."

fiercest tiger
03-25-2001, 09:20 AM
can you tell us abit vlads power, ive only seen the vids, but would like to here from someone that has felt vlads strenght etc.

:D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

TaoBoxer
03-25-2001, 02:17 PM
I don't know anything about Systema, but Arthur Sennot doesn't have a "Long history in Internal Chinese Arts." As far as I know, he is a Shodan in Judo (albeit VERY talented) and has done a lot of other work in other arts. As for Chinese Medicine, I know he was apprenticing under BJ Wong in Boston, but from what I understand there was a misunderstanding a while back.......

zultan
09-07-2003, 02:40 PM
Hey folks!has anyone in here heard of, or train in the russian martial art 'SYSTEMA"?

old jong
09-07-2003, 05:35 PM
No why?...;)

Black Jack
09-07-2003, 08:53 PM
Stranger studies Systema. He would be a good gent to ask questions.

zultan
09-07-2003, 09:40 PM
Ahhhh let me add on to that question.I was checking out some systema website's and i think it looks like a pretty cool and unusual art.Just wanted to know if anyone had actually trained or come into contact with the art,how it compare's to wing chun,if they think its effective or just good for overall well being.etc etc.

anerlich
09-07-2003, 10:38 PM
A friend of mine with about 20 years of KF behind him who got a silver medal in MA fighting in the Police/Fire Olympics spent some time in Toronto and trained with Vladimir Vasiliev. He was very impressed and has incorporated some if it into his own teaching. Very soft and flowing, but really hard and nasty when it wants to be.

I trust his judgement.

I've not seen any Systema but videos myself, but I've been interested in and trained in ROSS, another American based RMA system, for several years.

ROSS at least has some training drills and concepts which IMO have definitely improved my Wing Chun and BJJ and enhanced my understanding of efficient body mechanics.

You could do worse than to check Systema out IMO.

bob10
09-08-2003, 01:51 AM
For more video clips you might also want to check out

www.systemauk.com

We have guys training with us from all types of backgrounds. My own background was 15+ years in Chinese styles. I found I was adding more and more of the system into what I was doing, it eventually made sense just to switch over completely.

anerlich
09-08-2003, 02:45 AM
Actually you should check out Scott's vids, or better yet see him in person. He has excellent martial skills, and while very pleasant and patient, would easily tie you in several knots if you irritated him enough, which in your case I imagine would be a fairly short interval. UFC fighter Elvis Sinosic attended the same seminar as I and was highly complimentary, but of course you the unnamed nobody have far more experience in such matters than he.

What you describe sounds like the offerings of several prominent WC organisations and more than one poster on this board, not to mention some of King Crimson's "deeper" offerings, so I can't see why Scott's stuff would cause you a problem.

Jim Roselando
09-08-2003, 10:19 AM
Hello,


Its kind of interesting stuff this Systema. My Russian Sambo friends never heard of that Term/Name before but said the stuff looked ok. The one thing that stuck out the most was that it was nice and soft which shows they have to have a decent understanding of proper mechanics with the body.

Check it out . Cant hurt!


Regards,

zultan
09-08-2003, 02:38 PM
i definately would like to check out a few classes or seminar.one martial art is enough of a challenge as it is.
the softness of the art stood out for me too,instead of having a stance it looks like you just turn into a big bowl of jello.

Blacktiger
01-24-2006, 06:22 PM
Anyone here done any cross training in Systema, if so let me know your thoughts, views on this Russian martial art :D

Mr Punch
01-25-2006, 09:07 AM
Only a couple of sessions but it was very interesting, and it helped me understand a couple of things about my primary arts.

They do an interestign exercise where they push slowly into their partner with a closed fist and try to find his centre at the same time as him trying to avoid your finding his centre without assuming any stance at all, and moving his feet as little as possible.

Then you do the same thing faster, until you are punching them full speed. At this point they are practising absorbing (or they often say 'laughing off'!) your strike and issuing it back at them. It hurts. I suppose it's good for conditioning: it's certainly good for accustoming you to taking full on strikes (and no, they don't use armour): and it's good for getting used to shock and improving balance and relaxation under pressure, and hiding your centre of balance.

We used to do an exercise very much like this in wing chun, so we've incorporated this and the wing chun counterpart into our training again recently and so far had relatively favourable results.

I can explain this further if you're interested and a couple of other things we practised but I'm a bit busy right now.

You practised it at all?

Blacktiger
01-26-2006, 04:46 PM
Our primary art is Liu He Zi Ran Men but we found an instrutor in Australia who came down and gave a seminar -we found lots of things that were similar in our art - the softness particuly.

As you said they did the exercise when you absorb the punch. It seems to be a really great art with loads of reality training.
I think the psychological training that they do in realtion to getting hit and dealing with any situation is great. Down the track we are going to incorpotrate a fair bit of it into what we do.
They do a fair bit of energy work/chi kung as well.

Like you said you can take stuff away from it and apply it to your primary art which is great.

anton
01-26-2006, 05:36 PM
Our primary art is Liu He Zi Ran Men but we found an instrutor in Australia who came down and gave a seminar -we found lots of things that were similar in our art - the softness particuly.

Really? Is he located in Melbourne? Is he Russian?

Blacktiger
01-26-2006, 05:56 PM
No Rockhampton we flew him down for the weekend.

No he is as OZ as you will find.

But he is authorised to teach out here by Vladimir Vasiliev so he's done a fair bit of training.

He's the only one I think in Australia

Ford Prefect
01-27-2006, 06:34 AM
I took a few classes at various places. Not my cup of tea. I feel like I learned a couple tricks, but I thought my time was better spent elsewhere.

SevenStar
01-27-2006, 10:13 AM
a co worker of mine trains in a systemma offshoot called kadichnokov (sp?)

anton
01-27-2006, 10:34 PM
No Rockhampton we flew him down for the weekend.

No he is as OZ as you will find.

But he is authorised to teach out here by Vladimir Vasiliev so he's done a fair bit of training.

He's the only one I think in Australia

d.amn. You had me excited for a second. I don't know why there aren't more sambo and systema instructors in australia, both seem to have caused quite a stir in teh MA/self-defence world and i'm sure they''d have no shortage of students.

Blacktiger
01-07-2007, 10:40 PM
This system is taking off all round the world at the moment.

People here harp on about training in no nonsense or reality arts - it astounds me how little it has been discussed here on the forum as well as how few people on the boards have tried or know about it....

I have been blown away by Systema as have the other people I have been training with from a large cross section of arts.

So Im putting the call out:

Have you tried Systema?

Heard of it?

And if so how have you found it and how has it impacted on your Kung Fu?


:)

Mr Punch
01-08-2007, 12:24 AM
I had one session. It was good.

We did mainly variations on the drill of being punched and 'rolling' the body to punch back and being punch-pushed into the core and avoiding/going with it.

These were exercises I've done to some extent in wing chun, aiki and tai chi, but these systema guys were very soft and skilled and good at it and could hit hard from any angle.

However, the main guy had a theory about developing a shield of positivity which would keep you from harm, and he smiled too much, including a part of his fighting philosophy which suggested you should smile when you're punched.

I'm not saying that he was a freak: he was a very nice man, and we met on other occasions too. But I'm not prepared to include that level of neo-religious enthusiasm into my practice. Later I saw the bruises on some of those guys from drills like lying on the floor while someone drops heavy poles onto you, or passively accepting pole strikes. Now, maybe it toughens you up (in a soft smiley kind of way of course), but I'd prefer to get bruises in full contact or doing some proactive/reactive drill... or not at all! And ultimately, his shield of positivity didn't stop him breaking his neck in a bicycle accident some months later! :eek: (I heard he got better!).

That one drill we practised did help my understandign and application of the similar wing chun drill though.

kal
01-08-2007, 12:54 AM
Are these the same guys who had some tapes out on Psychic Energy?

Nick Forrer
01-08-2007, 10:30 AM
I have been training privately in it with a guy called Valerie Riazanov for a few months now

I think there is some amazing things in it and some hoaky things too. Per ST Bruce: absorb what is useful and discard what is useless

Actually IMO the best things are the methods and drills rather than techniques per se

And the punches have to be felt to be believed

I also have been surprised that it is not discussed more on here

Personally dislike the religeous aspect

Could say more but wont.......yet

lkfmdc
01-08-2007, 11:03 AM
From what little I have seen, some very good concepts, with the downside that at times it seems the concepts don't "pan out" into realistic drills or technique. Also, at times some of the psychic powers/elite KGB training/lost Soviet secrets stuff is a bit much ;)

Knifefighter
01-08-2007, 12:00 PM
I hope it is better in person that what they show on their demo videos... because those are pure B.S.

Blacktiger
01-08-2007, 03:36 PM
Hi all

Great to read some feed back from you all on this topic :)

I am interested to hear about the psychic or religious undercurrents that some of you have experienced.

I have only read about the psychic element which was touched upon in one of the hand books that came with DVD's from one of the top Russian guys (Vlad) based in Canada.

www.russianmartialart.com/

As for the religious aspect.....I have not come into contact with that either but had read about it in the Systema background.

The guy I have been training with just spent 6 months with Vlad in Canada and he is pretty straight up with no out of the box theory’s as yet - so all good so far.

He said some of the people he trained with were a mixed bag with K1 fighters etc and really experienced people.

He also mentioned alot of people who went could not deal with the reality side of things - meaning the instructors would throw them into alot of random situations.

For example guys using dead weight smothering your head -then instructors saying ok how do you get out of this -basically showing you what may be lacking in your training.

One thing he did say which was very interesting was that one of the head instructors - Vlad was very very good.

My friend has loads of MMA training over a variety of styles and systems and he said he (Vlad) saw me coming every time.

He put this down to life or death experience that Vlad had with Special Forces -that he (my friend) will never experience.

An edge if you like that I know I will never get no matter how much I train!!!!

So I put it out for discussion that to reach the highest levels of this system you have to have killer instinct as Systema comes from reality life or death training weather it be unarmed or with a weapon and in any situation

What do you guys think about this line of thinking :D

David Jamieson
01-08-2007, 04:45 PM
I have a friend who trains systema with a group out east of me. he's pretty happy with it and has shared some with the broader group of us.

It's ok stuff as far as I'm concerned.

I don't go for the hocus pocus aspect in anything, be it systema or cma or what not, that stuff is neitehr here nor there for me, so i gloss over it and take the parts that are practical and useful and developable (is that a word? :p )

haven't been to Vlad's school here though. It costs too much for my tastes and I'm pretty happy with what I have for now anyway.

Blacktiger
01-08-2007, 06:55 PM
I don't go for the hocus pocus aspect in anything, be it systema or cma or what not, that stuff is neitehr here nor there for me, so i gloss over it and take the parts that are practical and useful and developable (is that a word? :p )

Word :)

I agree !!!

stricker
01-09-2007, 09:48 AM
Nick,

Cool that youve been looking into it. Rob Poyton has a class about 10 mins away from me but it clashes with the best night at mma :( its something ive dipped a toe in and really liked. I will pursue it later but its not my priority right now...

"Actually IMO the best things are the methods and drills rather than techniques per se" I agree 100%, more so i think they have the best methods and drills of any martial art ive seen.

everything alive, no fixed patterns, no "techniques", everything is trained into your body by doing the drills. drills and methods very direct in what they were trying to achieve not roundabout "do it for x months/years and maybe youll figure it out". attributes (yielding, structure, mobility etc) applicable across ranges/venues eg standup, clinch, ground, weapons etc

very interesting from a wing chun perspective too.

but, i wouldnt train it on its own.

also, WTF is up with camo-wearing wierdos.

Nick Forrer
01-11-2007, 05:46 PM
Jon,

I would say its like the WD40 of Martial arts...whatever style you do it will improve it.

For example....The body has certain vulnerable points and when we put a guard up we close them (for example we tuck our chin and hunch our body to protect our chin throat ribs and solar plexus)....Now in wing chun we have methods to open the points by controlling our opponent...in sytema however they do it by hitting you whilst you attack since when you attack you open up these points...this is why in boxing people often get knocked out when they are attacking rather then when they are defending (because in attacking they forget about maintaining their defensive posture)

To invite the attack in the first place though and thus take advantage of it (so at least the systema thinking goes) you have to assume a posture which is neither offensive or defensive but simply neutral...most people are uncomfortable with this however because it makes them feel vulnerable i.e. afraid...This is why in systema the training starts slow and light to allow people to conquer this fear.

This is just one of the ideas which I have found interesting as a student of MA. Anyway I am looking forward to doing more training in it.

Nick Forrer
01-11-2007, 05:48 PM
PS yes I agree WTF is it with the camo wierdos.....

Blacktiger
01-11-2007, 05:49 PM
PS yes I agree WTF is it with the camo wierdos.....

Keeping it real with the special forces vibe bro :p

stricker
01-12-2007, 06:48 PM
I would say its like the WD40 of Martial arts...whatever style you do it will improve it.

For example....The body has certain vulnerable points and when we put a guard up we close them (for example we tuck our chin and hunch our body to protect our chin throat ribs and solar plexus)....Now in wing chun we have methods to open the points by controlling our opponent...in sytema however they do it by hitting you whilst you attack since when you attack you open up these points...this is why in boxing people often get knocked out when they are attacking rather then when they are defending (because in attacking they forget about maintaining their defensive posture)

To invite the attack in the first place though and thus take advantage of it (so at least the systema thinking goes) you have to assume a posture which is neither offensive or defensive but simply neutral...most people are uncomfortable with this however because it makes them feel vulnerable i.e. afraid...This is why in systema the training starts slow and light to allow people to conquer this fear.

This is just one of the ideas which I have found interesting as a student of MA. Anyway I am looking forward to doing more training in it.
cmon nick your just scratching the surface, or are you keeping the juicy bits close to your chest :)

i like the wd40 analogy, so true.what was interesting to me seemed there were two key components they were training in the drills, yielding and resisting (a la relaxation and structure), and they were drilling it into the body at a really reflexive level. when i put it in the bigger picture of the russian stuff ive seen (eg fast and loose from pavel or any sonnon stuff) then think about the drills, the question i had was well am i doing some partner assisted mobility training or training martial arts? i guess the answer is both, that seems pretty neat to me. again with the strength training stuff they do i thought the same thing...

actually my first thought after systema was i wished i did this for x months before doing wing chun it takes care of some of the basic skills that unco beginners have to learn without the grief of getting the wing chun techniques right. then i thought how great it was not having to remember any techniques, or get them picture perfect.

now i dont know enough (do they have a guard position??) to say about the neutral position idea but in a street situation it certainly makes sense. the hitting as your being hit thing im not 100% convinced about. are you talking about the thing they do where you punch them then they wave it back to you? if so that has a delay built in i dont see how theyd deal with a boxer firing crisp combos etc...

also the fear thing is interesting too. ive read stuff about this before to do with the flinch reflex etc, and how different types of martial arts approach it differently. i dont know what to think about that.

oh one more thing, anyone seen any systema or systema trained fighters in the ring/cage yet?

ps also i got me a hammer in my toolbox (thai boxing) and a wrench too (grappling) now i can fix anything :)

pps have you seen much sonnon stuff? i know we talked about this a little bit, i first got bodyflow on recommendation from andrewS, i owe a fair bit of my ground game skill to that, especially hip movement and "ground navigation". his "softwork" thing is not exactly systema but close.

WushuJames
01-23-2007, 05:22 AM
I'd really like to try it I've downloaded heaps of videos it looks like it is superiour to a lot of styles out there. I dont think that their are any schools near me though (Melbourne Austalia) I'd be willing to incorporate it into what I'm already doing, It comes from a culture called the 'Cossacks' they were some of the greatest warriors that ever existed and there is various European martial arts only recently coming to light in the western world (I find it all quite facinating).:)

Black Jack II
01-23-2007, 08:57 AM
If you go the Systema route get ready for some hocus pocus.

Just watch there tape "Beyond the Physical" where MR puts people to sleep with a wave of his hands and other soviet mystical psychic energy junk or in the offical guidebook where it talks about the ritual of standing in the dark in front of a mirror with a candle lit in front of you in the hopes of seeing your spirit animal.:rolleyes:

Which oddly you see less in less in there current marketing structure.

Even if you find some of the Systema physical training to be worth your time there is always the rumour about them trying to get students to become indoctrinated in the Russian Church.......:cool:

WushuJames
01-23-2007, 03:46 PM
Really? Is he located in Melbourne? Is he Russian?

http://www.systemaaustralia.com/

http://www.melbournesystema.com.au/

Theres some links for you:) too far away from the Moonee Ponds one but you might be able to get there. Hope this helps:)

Blacktiger
01-23-2007, 04:57 PM
Yep go and check it out its great :)

bob10
01-24-2007, 04:01 AM
Wrong all round. The BTP work is clearly explained as psychologcial on the DVD, and on-one tries to indoctrinate anyone. Perhaps you shouldn't listen to rumours.

kal
01-24-2007, 07:47 AM
Hmmm, this isn't the first time I've heard about this Russian church thing. Where do these rumors come from?

Black Jack II
01-24-2007, 10:19 AM
Psychological..............??

Really?

I have a major in Psychology and I must of been sick the day that lecture was taught?

Lets see if this video link works. Heh

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4782614389622826842&q=systema


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1505869179648427725&q=systema

Blacktiger
01-24-2007, 07:39 PM
I
Even if you find some of the Systema physical training to be worth your time there is always the rumour about them trying to get students to become indoctrinated in the Russian Church.......:cool:

Dont know where you got that info but have not experienced anything close to that at all.

Maybe try a class or 7 and then make up your mind :)

bob10
01-25-2007, 02:53 AM
Psychological..............??

Really?

I have a major in Psychology and I must of been sick the day that lecture was taught?

Lets see if this video link works. Heh

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4782614389622826842&q=systema


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1505869179648427725&q=systema

Well you can get information from a 22 second clip Or from the 90 minute film. Or from talking to Mikhail himself. Which do you think would be more accurate?

Qi_Dog
08-22-2008, 02:53 PM
Systema


As I have no experience in this, I'm curious.....Anyone ever studied Systema?

How valid (complete) is it , what kind of a workout is it, and is it similar to any

other martial arts? Which ones, and in what way?


Thanks

QD

mawali
08-22-2008, 05:18 PM
Systema is as functional an any system out there!
It is more within the "internal martial arts" regarding using the others impetus for your own and downing the opponent.

Black Jack II
08-22-2008, 06:02 PM
A lot psychobabel mishmash, mythos and total bullsh!t in Systema.

Buyer beware.

Kevin Huang
08-22-2008, 06:48 PM
The guys I know that do Systema are very tough fighters.

One of Systema's strengths is that they can withstand inordinate amounts of damage. They also have a freeflowing thinking that allows them to improvise moves. In that sense, they're pretty much identical to old Taoist combative kung fu that's little known today.

Systema is a very destructive system that knows how to hurt people.

rogue
08-22-2008, 07:02 PM
Oh yeah, there is a lot psychobabel mishmash, mythos and total bullsh!t in Systema. But it is fun to watch and do, but it doesn't fully match what I've seen in some other combative systems.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDQ_A8Skzdg&feature=related

Black Jack II
08-22-2008, 07:11 PM
The guys I know that do Systema are very tough fighters

How are you even judging this? What criteria?


One of Systema's strengths is that they can withstand inordinate amounts of damage.

Christ, I thought the day's of these types of posts were done. No they cannot withstand inordinate amounts of damage. Get past the black belt magazine marketing and use adult logic.

Not trying to bag on you to hard but man think about it....


Systema is a very destructive system that knows how to hurt people.

Save your money if the above statement is what you are looking for. People who actually trade hands in a realistic fashion.

If you want a real combative Russian system without the cult then find a good Combat Sambo Spentsnaz or even Sport Sambo.


Oh yeah, there is a lot psychobabel mishmash, mythos and total bullsh!t in Systema. But it is fun to watch and do, but it doesn't fully match what I've seen in some other combative systems.

Rogue,

It may be fun to do and watch, hell TKD is fun to do and watch, and is in my view a hell of a lot more effective and straightforward than Systema, but it is not a true close combat system.

It is a fraud.

Can you get some good things from it, sure, of course, you can also pick up EXCELLENT tips on how to fight from football but Systema has some bad mojo hiding behind it.

rogue
08-22-2008, 07:19 PM
Rogue,

It may be fun to do and watch, hell TKD is fun to do and watch, and is in my view a hell of a lot more effective and straightforward than Systema, but it is not a true close combat system.

It is a fraud.

Can you get some good things from it, sure, of course, you can also pick up EXCELLENT tips on how to fight from football but Systema has some bad mojo hiding behind it.

What, you don't believe you can make someone happy by punching him a certain way or shoot your psychic energy?:D

golden arhat
08-22-2008, 10:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzGD5riUvY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRnQSYQZ6OI&feature=related


if this is systema punching i'm willing to bet the whole system is flawed.


they actually advocate using just your arm while punching instead of putting your body into it :confused: as a method of power generation:confused::confused:

anyone with a basic knowledge of physics could tell you otherwise

Blacktiger
08-23-2008, 12:28 AM
Systema


As I have no experience in this, I'm curious.....Anyone ever studied Systema?

How valid (complete) is it , what kind of a workout is it, and is it similar to any

other martial arts? Which ones, and in what way?


Thanks

QD

Systema is cool the ground stuff eats the bjj stuff for breakfast and its a good system - lots of knife ,gun disarms etc with emphasis on freedom of movement in a relaxed fashion...you learn falls, rolls etc etc with weapons and without.

Its reality based training so in other words no messing round!!

Its combative and really its its own thing.

But dont take my word for it go and try it out. Im sure alot of the feed back you have had from people so far has been based on a quick look on youtube rather than actually taking a class and getting an idea....quite a big difference.

If you want an art that works in the realm of reality you will enjoy it!

If you really want the mustard you need to go to Canada and train with Vlad he is the man to see - friend of mine a few months ago went a did a 3 month stint with him and said it was unreal. They train on hardwood floors- no mats and really push your limits. Just google systema canada and Vlad and you should be able to find him they may even be abne to refer you to someone closer to you....

He said it was very interesting to see a variety of people from different styles there who had alot of their ideas on what works and what does not crushed - some could handle it and some could not. They will do stuff like drop a huge heavy russian dude on your head and sit on you with full body weight and then say right - what are you gonna do now!!

I took it for a short time- loved it but the travel and time was an issue but would love to get back in at some stage!!!

But go and look for your own sake dont base a decision on what someone else thinks -they may not have any clue at all :D

Black Jack II
08-23-2008, 06:02 AM
Its reality based training so in other words no messing round!

LMAO.

Whose reality.


Its combative and really its its own thing.

Labels will be labels but it is not a close combat system.


But dont take my word for it go and try it out. Im sure alot of the feed back you have had from people so far has been based on a quick look on youtube rather than actually taking a class and getting an idea....quite a big difference.

I met a number of Systema cats from up North while training with Guru Tim Murray in St. Charles in his arnis jujitsu system. Plus a few others since I am a fan of all things Occidental in combatives. Let's just say I was never impressed. But you are right about one thing, don't take my word or his, go and see if you dig it.

Just be careful of the time you invest, your wallet, dogmatic conversion and psychic bull**** artists.

Black Jack II
08-23-2008, 06:04 AM
What, you don't believe you can make someone happy by punching him a certain way or shoot your psychic energy?

LOL. The junk stupid people fall for.

rogue
08-23-2008, 09:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzGD5riUvY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRnQSYQZ6OI&feature=related


if this is systema punching i'm willing to bet the whole system is flawed.


they actually advocate using just your arm while punching instead of putting your body into it :confused: as a method of power generation:confused::confused:

anyone with a basic knowledge of physics could tell you otherwise

That's some funny sheet, but what they are advocating is relaxed striking which is nothing unique to Systema. There's also enough nonsense added by Ryabko that would even make George Dillman blush.

Steeeve
08-23-2008, 03:29 PM
Well so much method of do punching


the old karate ,boxing and hard style kung fu using the waist...boxing also (using the power coming from the ground)

internal use the whole body like the hsing i beng chuan.....

some hakka style used the dip gwuat or the rib power....pak mei ,southern mantis

some used the reverse motion of the waist for punch or shaking power(southern white crane and some pakua)





now you see the systema punch ...take a look ....the path of the punch from the origin to the impact to target:)forget about pressure point see that like target area.....

Whats the travel of the Punch?????????Question for you

Whats about the third theory of Newton "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction." and the mass collision....


Steeve

Black Jack II
08-23-2008, 06:06 PM
That's some funny sheet, but what they are advocating is relaxed striking which is nothing unique to Systema.

Personally Rogue, and this may be another topic but I have never bought into these systems that push across a modality of "relaxed striking."

I find a lot of it to be a mound of horse dung from even the most ground floor level of logic.

Why....your very own body will often not let you respond with relaxed striking, and no secret squirrel fake Cossack history "soft-style" or "flow" training will allow you to rewire your hypothalamus gland to not release adrenaline and noradrenaline from the adrenal medulla into the bloodstream.

As you well know, and I am just typing to type here, when you fight or get into a scruff, you will be tense, your heart rate is going to go up, your going to get an increase in respiration, your blood pressure gets wacky, blood is pulled away from surface vessels to be pumped into muscles, which in turn, depending on one's world of mental and physical experience, leads to a general lose of fine motor skills and often the shakes because of the glucose which is released by the liver.

This is just a part of the physical side, the psychological side is just as bad if not worse, if one is not training under a solid enough stressor.

Not being preachy but just talking old chum;)

I am all for training relaxed and whipping power strikes, such as a gross motor cupped hand blow or slap, but what Systema does is just not that but a whole, relaxed approach that goes beyond.

Lets not even get into the no-touch bulldunk.

rogue
08-23-2008, 06:37 PM
As you well know, and I am just typing to type here, when you fight or get into a scruff, you will be tense, your heart rate is going to go up, your going to get an increase in respiration, your blood pressure gets wacky, blood is pulled away from surface vessels to be pumped into muscles, which in turn, depending on one's world of mental and physical experience, leads to a general lose of fine motor skills and often the shakes because of the glucose which is released by the liver.

But all of that doesn't happen right away, not all of it works against you and some of it never happens. The shakes usually come after. A lot of what we've been thinking happens really doesn't and if it did nobody would survive any kind of attack.


Why....your very own body will often not let you respond with relaxed striking, and no secret squirrel fake Cossack history "soft-style" or "flow" training will allow you to rewire your hypothalamus gland to not release adrenaline and noradrenaline from the adrenal medulla into the bloodstream.

Yes it will and usually in those first few seconds. When I say relaxed I'm not talking about soft-style but not being hard ala' much karate.

Good to talk with you again BJ.:)

Black Jack II
08-23-2008, 08:06 PM
But all of that doesn't happen right away, not all of it works against you and some of it never happens. The shakes usually come after.

Very true. It depends on your intrinsic mindset, coherency of life's experiences, how you are physically wired, and the timing and kind of violent situation at hand.

Sooooo many armchair scenario's to compute:eek:

But the end result is often fear to some degree, mine and your reptilian brain were taught to do two simply things, either to fight or haul feet. When it is fight time, some people have a serious lose of fine motor movement because the old noggin does not get the same volume of blood that is needed to normally operate on different levels for cognitive reasoning and the end result in this process for a massive amount of normal people is the lose of motor coordination and a whole bunch of tunnel vision.

Heck, I remember one time pretty vividly where I got into a scratch and I seemed to loose my ability to hear that well:D

All I am saying is that progressive resistance training in martial arts done the correct way can help to gain some practical experience for people to feel the effects of adrenaline. I just don't think a over-focused view on "wave-form" or "soft-work" training is the way to go.

Golden Arms
08-25-2008, 10:23 AM
Ryabko Systema is just one type, there are others. If any of you question how hard they can hit, go to a class with a good teacher and ask him to hit you, they love to take and give hits. I am not a Systema worshiper, but some of what they do is way ahead of the curve in learning to adapt to changing situations, and in taking shots. Again, this is easily verifiable in person. Judging the efficacy of a System off of contact with some of its students is not my chosen method of verifying what that system has to offer. To each their own though.

Black Jack II
08-25-2008, 01:22 PM
Thank god for youtube. LMAO. Watch these. Just two of MANY showcasing this nonsense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF17Wd4Fz4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkfJoOsldEg

SimonM
08-25-2008, 01:41 PM
Keeping in mind that I'm not taking sides in this since I can't view the videos from my present computer I just want to contribute this little tidbit:

With, I'm sure, at least half of the dumb-as-sh!t martial arts videos on Youtube somebody thought they were awesome.

Black Jack II
08-25-2008, 02:29 PM
With, I'm sure, at least half of the dumb-as-sh!t martial arts videos on Youtube somebody thought they were awesome

LOL!

Good Point:D

rogue
08-25-2008, 04:45 PM
Judging the efficacy of a System off of contact with some of its students is not my chosen method of verifying what that system has to offer.

It really should be and students are always a good indicator about a style and the instructors.

Nice vids BJ. I used to think Systema was great but these days it's falling into the same category as the chi-shooters and fluffy Aikido.

Black Jack II
08-25-2008, 04:55 PM
I used to think Systema was great

I thought it would be the bomb to, but so many things about it are not my bag, I just put my two cents in;)

Really, if you want to take a look at Russian systems, their are others besides Sambo and Systema, but Sambo really is excellent and their are different formats of it, from military to police and sport.

The great thing is they all have the sport context.

rogue
08-25-2008, 05:14 PM
I think if Vlad was the only representative it'd be OK, but some of these other guys are nuts.

notanexit
10-08-2008, 10:39 PM
My former instructor downloaded systema videos from youtube,copied the movements,and presented it as "drunken techniques".Then all the students thought they were getting something "new".But I have not found anything suggesting that systema is related to the drunken system.Of course this instructor did not say "I got this from the internet",he just leads his students to believe that he always knew it.

SimonM
10-09-2008, 08:05 AM
How are you even judging this? What criteria?


Kevin Huang needs no criteria, he is teh 1337 d34d1y n1nj4.

LSWCTN1
10-09-2008, 09:46 AM
[QUOTE


they actually advocate using just your arm while punching instead of putting your body into it :confused: as a method of power generation:confused::confused:

anyone with a basic knowledge of physics could tell you otherwise[/QUOTE]

the way i have seen it explained is that a human arm is around 15lbs. hit someone with a 15lb lump of wood/rubber etc and there would be no problem in causing some serious damage.

all martial arts have their frauds. Systema is one of them. if you want an understanding of the human psyche in relation to 'chi blasts' etc. then watch Derren Brown's show 'The Heist' it will all become very clear, very quickly

Ryabko was a Special Forces Op. and it would be fair to say that he will know how to handle himself. Val Riazanov is a heavyweight boxer and a judo blackbelt - he also is a 'master' of systema. i think the issue is that systema principles are taught in a weekend workshop then the participants then go on to teach

My daughter has just learnt to bumshuffle around a room two weeks ago, funnily enough i havent sent her out to teach other children how to move....

think about it.

TRUE systema seems pretty authentic to me.

Blacktiger
10-09-2008, 08:12 PM
All I will say is:

Go and see Vlad in Canada -take a class and see how hard they hit.

They like fresh meat :D

SimonM
10-10-2008, 09:16 AM
Canada is a big place, what city is this Vlad guy in?

Golden Arms
10-10-2008, 09:56 AM
All I will say is:

Go and see Vlad in Canada -take a class and see how hard they hit.

They like fresh meat

Amen, people seem to love to talk a lot about things they dont know about first hand. Vlad's school is in Toronto if I recall. Or look up your local Systema place, wait until they have him out for a seminar, and get hit by him. Then come back and tell us how fake it was ;)

SimonM
10-10-2008, 11:44 AM
I don't know...

I've taken some pretty heavy shots from people who were pretty bad martial artists before.

I know a construction worker who is a diving lunger. Guy hits like a ton of lead lined bricks... but he's pretty easy to beat in a sparring match if you know how to roll with a shot.

Golden Arms
10-10-2008, 11:49 AM
I don't know...

I've taken some pretty heavy shots from people who were pretty bad martial artists before.

I know a construction worker who is a diving lunger. Guy hits like a ton of lead lined bricks... but he's pretty easy to beat in a sparring match if you know how to roll with a shot.

Again, they tend to be very open to having anyone that would like to, join a class and feel it for themselves from my experience. I am not saying Systema trumps all other systems out there, but I am saying, if you want to know, you really have no excuse to not find out first hand yourself, if there is a place local to you, whether they can hit for real, and take shots as well.

sanjuro_ronin
10-10-2008, 11:53 AM
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=887864#post887864

Ahem...

SimonM
10-10-2008, 12:00 PM
I have not. Next time I'm in Toronto with time to kill to take in a demo class I will though.

(Don't hold your breath, I'm probably headed out west soon.)

sanjuro_ronin
10-10-2008, 12:02 PM
I have not. Next time I'm in Toronto with time to kill to take in a demo class I will though.

(Don't hold your breath, I'm probably headed out west soon.)

Richmond hill if my memory is correct.

SimonM
10-10-2008, 12:05 PM
I'll keep that in mind.

I have an ex-girlfriend whose family lives out that way... other than that I have 0 connection to Richmond Hill and would normally never go there. ;)

sanjuro_ronin
10-10-2008, 12:07 PM
I'll keep that in mind.

I have an ex-girlfriend whose family lives out that way... other than that I have 0 connection to Richmond Hill and would normally never go there. ;)

Vlad is a good man and his students are all nice guys, I few have done Kyokuhsin.

SimonM
10-10-2008, 12:14 PM
I'll take your word for it. :D

David Jamieson
10-10-2008, 06:01 PM
One of my very good friends in the martial arts studies systema.

What you see on youtube is not all there is to it. Its interesting.
Vlad is to pricy for me, but I got dvds! woot! lol

Russian martial arts are good.

Blacktiger
10-11-2008, 06:05 AM
I'll keep that in mind.

I have an ex-girlfriend whose family lives out that way... other than that I have 0 connection to Richmond Hill and would normally never go there. ;)

Check him out you wont regret it.

Friend of mine from here in oz spent 3 months with him last year, said it was fantastic, if you live in Canada you have no excuse - get on down and check it out. To have a guy like Vlad in your own backyard and not to go see him is a crime:)

David Jamieson
10-11-2008, 06:45 AM
Check him out you wont regret it.

Friend of mine from here in oz spent 3 months with him last year, said it was fantastic, if you live in Canada you have no excuse - get on down and check it out. To have a guy like Vlad in your own backyard and not to go see him is a crime:)

not having the money is a valid excuse. He is pricey.

diego
10-11-2008, 03:08 PM
Personally Rogue, and this may be another topic but I have never bought into these systems that push across a modality of "relaxed striking."

I find a lot of it to be a mound of horse dung from even the most ground floor level of logic.

Why....your very own body will often not let you respond with relaxed striking, and no secret squirrel fake Cossack history "soft-style" or "flow" training will allow you to rewire your hypothalamus gland to not release adrenaline and noradrenaline from the adrenal medulla into the bloodstream.

As you well know, and I am just typing to type here, when you fight or get into a scruff, you will be tense, your heart rate is going to go up, your going to get an increase in respiration, your blood pressure gets wacky, blood is pulled away from surface vessels to be pumped into muscles, which in turn, depending on one's world of mental and physical experience, leads to a general lose of fine motor skills and often the shakes because of the glucose which is released by the liver.

This is just a part of the physical side, the psychological side is just as bad if not worse, if one is not training under a solid enough stressor.

Not being preachy but just talking old chum;)

I am all for training relaxed and whipping power strikes, such as a gross motor cupped hand blow or slap, but what Systema does is just not that but a whole, relaxed approach that goes beyond.

Lets not even get into the no-touch bulldunk.

I hate the glucose shaky thing :) do you have an article online I can read what you wrote from a university text level? I'm studying fitness theory and want a few pages on what you wrote!.

GreenCloudCLF
10-11-2008, 05:13 PM
I hate the glucose shaky thing :) do you have an article online I can read what you wrote from a university text level? I'm studying fitness theory and want a few pages on what you wrote!.

I wouldn't hold my breath for him to respond. Isn't he the guy that got banned for racism?

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01-18-2010, 07:54 PM
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Scott R. Brown
01-19-2010, 09:32 AM
What? No Tactical Pullups???:eek:

Razaunida
06-15-2011, 11:03 PM
Systema, Taiji, Bagua.


Simply theories for martial artists who already have a base.


Taiji now suck (majority) bagua as well. No hitting or real partner work.


I highly recommend cross training in systema drills. It will change your kung fu for the better.

hydrick
06-16-2011, 04:11 AM
systema is for queers, like you

Northwind
06-16-2011, 06:04 AM
Both of you quack like ducks. Please hop on a plate and get in the oven.

David Jamieson
06-16-2011, 06:55 AM
The last time I tried out some bagua (May of this year), it was all throws and partner work at a friends club.

the last time I did tai chi, it was locks and takedowns and all partner work, except for the 42 at the end of the workout.

I don't do IMA often, but when I do, your mom gets a little excited. :p

Razaunida
06-16-2011, 01:11 PM
True, but systema drills are different and worth doing.

Yesterday we punched each other for 3 hours learning how the movement changed when we were hit and how little power generation is needed. Actually almost none. We did multiple opponent drills and in the end I was softer than if I had done taiji for 7 hours.

David Jamieson
06-16-2011, 01:23 PM
True, but systema drills are different and worth doing.

Yesterday we punched each other for 3 hours learning how the movement changed when we were hit and how little power generation is needed. Actually almost none. We did multiple opponent drills and in the end I was softer than if I had done taiji for 7 hours.

systema has some good stuff in it.

However, it shot itself in the foot with all the no touch nonsense.
It would have not discredited itself had it not tried to enter into that field of lunacy.

Other than that, as russian martial arts go, I think I would classify Sambo over what systema offers. it's more direct and to the point.

I can't get past the fluff lin kong jin garbage that systema promotes. I like the spetznaz based stuff and can't stand the fruitcake stuff.

Razaunida
06-16-2011, 01:26 PM
I agree. Actually I think combat sambo is a better way to learn Kung fu than most kung fu classes.


The no touch stuff I'm starting to understand.

You can't really throw someone with it, but you can trick them into breaking their own structure if you are really hitting. After their structure is broken it is easier to throw them.

Tricking them into falling down on their own requires them to have a lot of fear, which many beginners do, charging around without balance.


Yes they did shoot themselves in the foot, but it is one of them most worthy methods of cross training I have come across, the other being mma

David Jamieson
06-16-2011, 01:49 PM
I agree. Actually I think combat sambo is a better way to learn Kung fu than most kung fu classes.


The no touch stuff I'm starting to understand.

You can't really throw someone with it, but you can trick them into breaking their own structure if you are really hitting. After their structure is broken it is easier to throw them.

Tricking them into falling down on their own requires them to have a lot of fear, which many beginners do, charging around without balance.


Yes they did shoot themselves in the foot, but it is one of them most worthy methods of cross training I have come across, the other being mma

combat sambo is derived from.... :p

Northwind
06-16-2011, 02:55 PM
Combat sambo is derived from placebo cuz it rhymes and cuz I did my science lab work onnit soz I noes

David Jamieson
06-16-2011, 02:56 PM
Combat sambo is derived from placebo cuz it rhymes and cuz I did my science lab work onnit soz I noes

well that explains 47 years of wrong that I've been abiding with... :(

Northwind
06-16-2011, 03:01 PM
It's okay. Don't feel bad that you've been mislead. Just do the double-blind studies in your science kit (oh my goodness I almost forgot! don't forget to video tape the whole thing & post it on youtube) and then you will learn teh realz that sambo comes from placebo.

David Jamieson
06-16-2011, 03:02 PM
It's okay. Don't feel bad that you've been mislead. Just do the double-blind studies in your science kit (oh my goodness I almost forgot! don't forget to video tape the whole thing & post it on youtube) and then you will learn teh realz that sambo comes from placebo.

wow, your'e some kind of living god! :eek:

I kow tow 3x!

bawang
06-16-2011, 04:37 PM
why you tow cows

use a truck

David Jamieson
06-16-2011, 04:44 PM
why you tow cows

use a truck

I'll give you three cows for your truck.

It runs right?

*rubs truck

Razaunida
06-16-2011, 05:00 PM
Yes I believe combat sambo is closest to my kung fu than most styles I have seen.

hskwarrior
06-16-2011, 06:29 PM
Yes I believe combat sambo is closest to my kung fu than most styles I have seen.

Yeah right.....stop lying

YouKnowWho
06-16-2011, 06:37 PM
I think combat sambo is a better way to learn Kung fu than most kung fu classes.
You don't need to go to Sambo. TCMA has Chinese wrestling too.


After their structure is broken it is easier to throw them.


Your throw will include "breaking your oppponent's structure". You don't need to separate it as 2 steps operation.

When you push your opponent's head down and sweep his legs off the ground, your opponent will fall. Which part is "breaking your oppponent's structure"? Whic part is your "throw"?

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3762/johnleglift.jpg

Razaunida
06-16-2011, 08:39 PM
You don't need to go to Sambo. TCMA has Chinese wrestling too.



Your throw will include "breaking your oppponent's structure". You don't need to separate it as 2 steps operation.

When you push your opponent's head down and sweep his legs off the ground, your opponent will fall. Which part is "breaking your oppponent's structure"? Whic part is your "throw"?

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3762/johnleglift.jpg


I have never studied combat sambo, I have studied Chinese wrestling which is why I say that they are the most similar. Throwing will break the structure, but if you can knock them down without that level of commitment to a single person it is better and makes you less likely to get tangled up.