Is this some made up wing chun?

[hskwarrior]

I just happened to come across this video, noticed the weng chun on the title and gave it a chance. by the time the video ended i was still waiting for the weng chun or was that it? is this something NEW or is this an authentic Wing Chun lineage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcRS9FOTKG0&NR=1

[chusauli]

That's Andreas Hoffmann - an authentic practitioner of Weng Chun, and a friend of mine.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.weng-chun.com/&ei=CQroTO70OZDSsAPmm8WxCw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB4Q7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dandreas%2Bhoffmann%26hl%3Den%26client %3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DIzC%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Divo

[hskwarrior]

is that branch mixed with Hung Gar? I thought i saw some hung gar in his movements. may i ask, why is this weng chun so different than you other wing chun that we see?

[chusauli]

It is a lineage passed down from Sun "Dai Fa Mian" Kam on the red boat opera.

The system's lore suggests that Jee Shim Sim Si is the founder of that art, but we know Jee Shim ("Chi Sim" romanized in German) was fictional.

"Dai Fa Mien" Kam's Weng Chun is bigger and more circular and contains other forms than Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu, Biu Jee...

There's a lot of it on the internet.

[hskwarrior]

it's interesting. i think i like this one over the others. probably because of my CLF influence haha. but thanks for the info.

[hskwarrior]

http://www.weng-chun.com/Galerie/Videos/25c.mpg

whoah, i would have thought this was Fut Gar Kuen over Wing Chun. The reason why is i see some of the same techniques found in my lineages Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut.

[Hendrik]

Frank,

Look at this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq30157OqoA&feature=fvsr

See the signature?


IMHO, Wing Chun kuen is the martial art of the Opera member.

And within the opera member there are various style of martial art practice.

Hung Gar, CLF, White Crane of Fujian, and the art called Siu Lien Tau exist.





Thus, not all Opera member or Red boat art is the same art using the Siu Lien tau as the core. The Siu Lien Tau based art is called the Female art or the art of the FaTan ( male playing female character)


Today's Wing Chun Kuen is in general refer to the art which is using Siu Lien Tau as the core.



As in my own lineage the Cho family or the Ngawu lineage which inherit from the Red boat , lots of stuffs are CLF and other Nam Kuen, it is not the WCK which we refer to.

Two different power generation type could be identify with the way how the practictional using their hip and these are the CLF type and Hung Gar type.


Again, it is very political incorrect today to bring these things up because it will usually getting into a very defensive mode of " what do you mean this is not WCK?"

Well, the Power generation and the application stratergy speak the truth however as us human usually will ignore that then facing the reality. and if we ignore it, it limits the advancement of the art. Because using a CLF hip to practice SLT/SNT doesnt power up well.



As in the Black Flag Wing Chun thread case, if the WCNer wants to get deeper understanding of their art, there is no other path but going deeper in the power generation and application stratergy investigation. However, most will not because as a human being we all have fear of what if what we do is not WCK. It is just very human to be defensive this way.

[hskwarrior]

well, in that ping kuen form, that is definitely a CLF form...or most of it is. i believe every clf person would admit this. the only difference is the positioning or distance of his hands or strikes as opposed to how CLF applies the strikes. In my lineage of CLF and the fact that our FUT actually has Fut Gar Kuen (not just Buddha Palms) actually allows us the ability to fight long range, mid range and close up.

Since this lineage is considered to be authentic wing chun although it looks different than i've seen....i like it. oh and the butterfly knive form in that video very nice too...aside from my own lineage, that was the only other BF Knife form i've liked over all the ones i've watched on youtube.

[RB93SAAT]

is that branch mixed with Hung Gar? I thought i saw some hung gar in his movements. may i ask, why is this weng chun so different than you other wing chun that we see?

hung ga master chiu chi ling once said chi sim weng chun came from hung ga, but many chi sim weng chun masters would never accept such story. ip man also said wing chun and weng chun are two different arts.

[RB93SAAT]

chi sim weng chun

http://www.shaolinwengchun.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

[Hendrik]

well, in that ping kuen form, that is definitely a CLF form...or most of it is. i believe every clf person would admit this. the only difference is the positioning or distance of his hands or strikes as opposed to how CLF applies the strikes. In my lineage of CLF and the fact that our FUT actually has Fut Gar Kuen (not just Buddha Palms) actually allows us the ability to fight long range, mid range and close up.

Since this lineage is considered to be authentic wing chun although it looks different than i've seen....i like it. oh and the butterfly knive form in that video very nice too...aside from my own lineage, that was the only other BF Knife form i've liked over all the ones i've watched on youtube.



Frank,

hahaha, now you see your Ping Kuen. Glad you like the Red boat opera martial art.



Well, to make every one right, I think the big picture will be like:

Red boat opera martial art,

May be 10 years from today, the RBOMA will settle as the following.

Both Weng Chun and Wing Chun are under the RBOMA. Weng Chun is core in Southern Shao lin based such as CLF and Hung Gar. Wing Chun is core in Siu Lin Tau based. These two arts since it is under the RBOMA are mutual influencing. However, their fundamental are different.



And this is actually put things in a better perspective for further grow.



PS. the record i got on the Yik Kam's SLT or the 108 SLT actually refer the art as SLT instead of WCK. So, from this, I would say in the red boat time, the WCK today is named as Siu Lin Tau before it was called Wing Chun Kuen.

[hskwarrior]

hung ga master chiu chi ling once said chi sim weng chun came from hung ga, but many chi sim weng chun masters would never accept such story. ip man also said wing chun and weng chun are two different arts.

See....i thought i recognized Hung Gar in there. But I recognize CLF and maybe even FUT GAR KUEN in there.

[taokum]

Hendrik of 2003 = Hendrik of 2010 = S.o.S.



See the signature?


http://www.vingtsun.com.hk/forum/reply.asp?message=2061&replyid=22826&level=3&all=

Hendrik Santo is just a student in our Cho family tree. He is nowhere to be the grandmaster of the system. No matter how much he had said about himself and placed himself as a leader in our family. He is just stealing our leadership in public with his one-man show. I hope nobody would buy his story and we're very sorry to say this to him, Hendrik Santo is just a wild cat, but not a grandmaster in our Cho family Wing Chun lineage.

Lim




Here is Hendrik Santo's original post to Gee Shim WCK grandmaster Andreas Hoffman.

"Hendrik wrote: Since you and me are both one of many succesors of different system, we have the responsibility to clarify things for the Martial art public and future generation of Wing Chun Kuen and Weng Chun Kuen. This is Purely technical nothing personal."

Limberg

[Hendrik]

Hendrik of 2003 = Hendrik of 2010 = S.o.S.



http://www.vingtsun.com.hk/forum/reply.asp?message=2061&replyid=22826&level=3&all=



So you have a problem with me knowing the facts behind the Red boat opera matial art and pin point the sources?

[Hendrik]

See....i thought i recognized Hung Gar in there. But I recognize CLF and maybe even FUT GAR KUEN in there.


As we could see, there is an TCMA revolution in Canton around 1850 with CLF is the core style. Lots of so called shao lin style now are actually a product of that evolution.


The red boat opera martial art is with this evolution.