Fees?

[Minghequan]

Hello all,

I run a private small yet friendly training group in my own home Training Hall built for martial arts training. My hall has full power, mod cons such as a fridge, DVD player and TV, Hanging Bags, Bob Dummy, Wooden Man and Striking equipment, Pads, Sanshou sparring gear and jigsaw mats for Sanshou etc. I do not teach to the general public, only to selected students. My question is regarding what you guys think would be along the lines of suitable fees for the following:

* WCRI Yearly Membership. - includes costs towards insurance
* Children's Class (half hour duration)
* Adults Class (two hours duration) -
* Sash Grading (coloured sashes) -
* Black Sash Gradings. Black Sashes + Senior Levels:
* Logo Embroidery (each logo of which we have two Cost us $10.00 AUD per embroidery) -
* Chinese Weapons Gradings (all levels) -
* Workshops-

OVERSEAS AFFILIATES:
* Yearly Membership Fees -(Per Person or School?)-
* Gradings -
* Black Sash & Above Gradings-
* Syllabus Copy-
* Ruan Dong DVD ( Two DVD's) -

Your ideas please?

[bawang]

I do not teach to the general public, only to selected students.



Children's Class
nope lolololosdfsf

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Hello all,

I run a private small yet friendly training group in my own home Training Hall built for martial arts training. My hall has full power, mod cons such as a fridge, DVD player and TV, Hanging Bags, Bob Dummy, Wooden Man and Striking equipment, Pads, Sanshou sparring gear and jigsaw mats for Sanshou etc. I do not teach to the general public, only to selected students. My question is regarding what you guys think would be along the lines of suitable fees for the following:

* WCRI Yearly Membership. - includes costs towards insurance
* Children's Class (half hour duration)
* Adults Class (two hours duration) -
* Sash Grading (coloured sashes) -
* Black Sash Gradings. Black Sashes + Senior Levels:
* Logo Embroidery (each logo of which we have two Cost us $10.00 AUD per embroidery) -
* Chinese Weapons Gradings (all levels) -
* Workshops-

OVERSEAS AFFILIATES:
* Yearly Membership Fees -(Per Person or School?)-
* Gradings -
* Black Sash & Above Gradings-
* Syllabus Copy-
* Ruan Dong DVD ( Two DVD's) -

Your ideas please?

Your not going to like my answer, but charge them one lump fee, be it monthly, bi-monthly, whatever, and be done with it. You say your running a small private school which is fine but all the other grading charges and membership fees scream of BS charges for you to make money. Sorry, I don't agree with that. I don't believe in charging stupid, unnecessary fees for every thing that should be included in their training.

[EarthDragon]

totally agree with iron eagle
if you are teaching out of your house then you are doing it for the love of teaching, not for the money, or at least i hope so...
. if you charge for all that stuff you are no different than a Mc dojo shopping mall school other than being a cheapskate who doesnt want to invest in a commerial building.

You shoud have no kids class and should charge no more than 50 a month per student. unless you are the only game in a small town or and incrediable martial artist there is no reason to leanr at someones house rather than a real location....hope this helps

[Brule]

I am going to agree with the other guys and add that it sounds like you're teaching as a hobby and any money you make from it is just gravy. Charge one reasonable monthly fee and be done with it. Don't add all these other fees for testing, memberships etc....oh, and get rid of the babysitting classes.

[David Jamieson]

I teach and train out of a similar set up.

I don't charge for anything and anyone who is going to invest time into making themselves better is welcome, especially if they do not have the gear needed to do so.

People who are learning and come in with nothing, pay a very small fee and it's reinvested into them actually. It's (the money) there as a symbol of commitment really, but ultimately the fee is accumulated to purchase them something like a staff or boxing gloves or other equipment they may not have. Otherwise, they are paying for my time to teach them. After commitment is shown through work, no more fee. :)

No testing, no ranks, no kids whatsoever. Just training in what I think is a great environment for doing so. I don't even subscribe to a particular style anymore and often it is simply range training.

With my tcma friends, it is the same thing with perhaps some drills, china na study or form breakdown and attempts at understanding the components through use of them in some way such as with devices, with partners, free spar etc.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I would like to reiterate a point that just because someone makes a living teaching martial arts does not make them a scam artist. If you train under a famous Sifu from a famous lineage, chances are you are going to pay high dollar for your training. Similiar to MMA camps that put out top fighters and competitors (Jackson's Submission Fighting, American Top Team, American Kickboxing Academy, Extreme Couture, ect. ect.) I assure you training at these facilities will not be cheap. But, sometimes you get what you pay for.

Is anyone going to call American Top Team a McDojo? What about someone like Ross who trained under a famous teacher considered a "treasure" by China. (BTW, I'm using Ross as an example, I have no idea what his dues are.) But the point I am making is if you are a grade above others in regards to knowledge and training, there is nothing wrong with charging what you feel your time and knowledge is worth.

But someone who teaches crap and markets it to ignorant people who know no better are what the problem is. Even in this day it is easy to make up a Sum Dum Goy master that you trained under in the slums of Beijing or the mountains of Tibet that no one has ever heard of, yet it makes you seem like one bad MFer and makes ignorant people flock to you like a bad cult or religion. And in my experience, those who charge stupid and outrageous fees for everything under the sun with "added" expenses all the time are the culprits in this bogus scam.

To the original poster, don't take it like I'm calling you this. I don't know you and you may be a good person, good instructor with the right intentions. But overcharging and bilking your students for every dime for fees and memberships is generally not looked fondly upon by those that know.;)

[David Jamieson]

But someone who teaches crap and markets it to ignorant people who know no better are what the problem is. Even in this day it is easy to make up a Sum Dum Goy master that you trained under in the slums of Beijing or the mountains of Tibet that no one has ever heard of, yet it makes you seem like one bad MFer and makes ignorant people flock to you like a bad cult or religion.

These types of individuals are falling by the wayside like crazy over the last decade and with the ubiquity of internet usage, exchange of information the subsequent revelations of his is the sh1t and who is A sh1t. lol

and the ones who are still around aren't running large schools making huge bank.

judy chop kung fu hillbilly for instance is clearly a regretful individual, but he isn't making cake from teaching his weirdness.

people who flock to a looney aren't gonna shop up at your club, so who cares and it is just as unlikely that the looney culty types are even into fighting at all on many levels. They are more into the whole mystical aspect.

grown up D&Ders really.

[ginosifu]

I agree with everyone's thoughts here but lets look at the other side of the coin. I have been running and teaching Kung Fu schools for over 15 years. I have noticed that when I offered FREE classes, whether it be fitness, self defense or old school Kung Fu very few people came. None of them ever stayed more than a week or two. I teach free classes with the same enthusiasim as I do paying classes. So why does no one come to free classes? Because there is no perceived value to the class without a monitary value attached to it. Even if you give a low monthly fee it will give the class Value!

ginosifu

[bawang]

I have noticed that when I offered FREE classes, whether it be fitness, self defense or old school Kung Fu very few people came.
if u dont teach for money why do u want a lot of students

[David Jamieson]

I agree with everyone's thoughts here but lets look at the other side of the coin. I have been running and teaching Kung Fu schools for over 15 years. I have noticed that when I offered FREE classes, whether it be fitness, self defense or old school Kung Fu very few people came. None of them ever stayed more than a week or two. I teach free classes with the same enthusiasim as I do paying classes. So why does no one come to free classes? Because there is no perceived value to the class without a monitary value attached to it. Even if you give a low monthly fee it will give the class Value!

ginosifu

I think that's a cultural idiom really in a lot of ways. Especially for north americans on many levels.

we have a tendency to buy cadillacs because they are cadillacs and they cost more and it's a branding thing. We haven't really gotten a much better vehicle than say a comparably appointed Toyota that costs far less.

[bawang]

once u teach for free the cultish atmosphere and nervous feeling is gone. students question u a lot more and see u for who u really are. thats why theres less people

when u teach for free u cant get away with looking down at people u cant pull off the bullsh1t u do at paying classes

[David Jamieson]

once u teach for free the cultish atmosphere and nervous feeling is gone. students question u a lot more and see u for who u really are. thats why theres less people

when u teach for free u cant get away with looking down at people u cant pull off the bullsh1t u do at paying classes

I personally find an informal atmosphere to be conducive to a better experience as far as civilian martial arts are concerned. Yes, there are more questions and more onus on the instructor or coach to know what s/he says s/he knows and therefore a keener eye towards to the training method and a whole lot less cryptic maybe material.

[bawang]

how many students u have teaching free shows ur true worth as a martial artist. not your worth to others but your self

how many paying students u have means nothing

[ginosifu]

Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong about teaching for free out your garage or local park. I have some Kung Fu friends who do that here and tell me all the time... "There is that 2 or 3 young guys who come to class consistantly but everyone else never stays more than a class or 2"


once u teach for free the cultish atmosphere and nervous feeling is gone. students question u a lot more and see u for who u really are. thats why theres less people

when u teach for free u cant get away with looking down at people u cant pull off the bullsh1t u do at paying classes

Bawang: I am kinda confused about your statement above. I teach with the same passion when it's for free or when peeps pay me. I have taught for free before and there is no difference, I know what I know, I teach what I teach. Each student learns at their own pace depending how many days per week, how much effort they put in etc etc.

Pay or not, I don't string peeps along, nor do I feel I am cheating anyone.

ginosifu

[bawang]

mang im wasnt ttalking about u i was generalizgin mang.

but stil my pont is the method and strategy people use for teaching paying classes doesnt work for free classes. thers things u take for granted and expect thats not there in free clases.

the string that ties cold and distant paying students to u is the cash they part wit. if u teach for so many years u shud know this. lot of ur paying students dont really care about u. ur proiding them a service. free classes is more personal. if u dont make personal friendship connections people leave

respect , reverence, blind trust and obedience isnt there in free classes. it hasto be gained and earned thru friendship. people dont suspend reality in free classes, they see u as equal to them. ur students c u for who u truly are and its a true test of ur charcater ur wu de


besides theres nothing wrong wit having few students number of students and popularity ad financial succes shouldnt mater in kung fu mang.

[TenTigers]

I have been teaching for over 25 yrs, open to the public.
classes are offered six days a week, separate classes for children, kids, teens and adults
I charge year membership, paid in monthly installments. Classes are unlimited, and students can come in every day.There is an "upgrade" where senior students pay more, but are allowed to take more classes (seniors can take beginner classes as well and get twice the workout) and other perks.
Kids are the same price-I should charge double!
I do have test fees.
Basic Syllabus workbook is 10 dollars, but additional material is free.
I do charge for uniforms, gloves, sparring gear, feiyues, etc.
That's it.

We are presently developing a pro-shop, with equipment packages.

I remember studying TKD and TSD, and they had registration and membership fees. So I paid a fee and am now a card-carrying member of the Ji Do Kwan, and the Soo Bahk Do/Tang Soo Do Federation, which means that somewhere in Korea, in some dusty old file cabinet, there's a piece of paper that says Rik Kellerman on it...

[bawang]

mang u have no honor u sound more like restaurant manager than sifu. friday tiger crane special 5.99

no honor

[TenTigers]

mang u have no honor u sound more like restaurant manager than sifu. friday tiger crane special 5.99

no honor
who, me? I'll have you know that I would never have a Friday Tiger Crane Special.


Fridays are reserved for Light Body Training.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

mang u have no honor u sound more like restaurant manager than sifu. friday tiger crane special 5.99

no honor

http://funny.funnyoldplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/chinese-restaurant.jpg

[Yum Cha]

respect , reverence, blind trust and obedience isnt there in free classes. it hasto be gained and earned thru friendship. people dont suspend reality in free classes, they see u as equal to them. ur students c u for who u truly are and its a true test of ur charcater ur wu de

besides theres nothing wrong wit having few students number of students and popularity ad financial succes shouldnt mater in kung fu mang.

From the beginning, the student owes his Teacher and his brothers, not the other way around. Quite happy with the 3 of 100 that stick around.

That being said, a man has to make a living, and he puts his skills to work. I think its a luxury to be able to devote your time and energy to a free school.

Also, from a marketing/demographic perspective, Like any national identity, American's are seduced by a range of appeals, based upon their cultural values, mores, etc, etc.
One of them is an appeal to status, and conspicuous consumption. The concept that if you pay more, it must be better.

[Lucas]

americans cant teach full time for free, culturally. our students wont own up and feed us and house us to be able to devote all our time to free teaching.

the best a guy can do, unless he is independently wealthy, is teach for free in his spare time. which is not a lot of free time for a guy pulling 40-60 hours a week at work. sure, you can be a kungfu bum i guess, but who wants to learn kungfu from a guy that smells like urine? :p

so in america if you teach full time, you have to charge. its like robbing peter to pay paul, but hey, there is only one payday in the scenario. someone has to get it.

[Yum Cha]

Yea, for sure, this is a whole different dynamic, you only get a little taste every week, based on how much you train and how well you learn. You MUST knock it out yourself, or with mates, during the week. Independence and mindfulness are important. It becomes a habit, the independent training thing.

[Lucas]

and ya ya Bawang, I know. i has no honors, i need be trong and has beard like guan gong chinese jesus and all that stuff.

[David Jamieson]

I have been teaching for over 25 yrs, open to the public.
classes are offered six days a week, separate classes for children, kids, teens and adults
I charge year membership, paid in monthly installments. Classes are unlimited, and students can come in every day.There is an "upgrade" where senior students pay more, but are allowed to take more classes (seniors can take beginner classes as well and get twice the workout) and other perks.
Kids are the same price-I should charge double!
I do have test fees.
Basic Syllabus workbook is 10 dollars, but additional material is free.
I do charge for uniforms, gloves, sparring gear, feiyues, etc.
That's it.

We are presently developing a pro-shop, with equipment packages.

I remember studying TKD and TSD, and they had registration and membership fees. So I paid a fee and am now a card-carrying member of the Ji Do Kwan, and the Soo Bahk Do/Tang Soo Do Federation, which means that somewhere in Korea, in some dusty old file cabinet, there's a piece of paper that says Rik Kellerman on it...

This is a good set up I think. It's a good way of keeping your kung fu in your own life everyday as well! :)


mang u have no honor u sound more like restaurant manager than sifu. friday tiger crane special 5.99

no honor

This is pretty funny and I lol'd, but clearly, it's a laundry list of items.
no tickee, no shirtee.
:p