Businesses don't need more tax breaks

[MasterKiller]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Corporate-Profits-Were-the-nytimes-3994329548.html?x=0&.v=1


American businesses earned profits at an annual rate of $1.66 trillion in the third quarter, according to a Commerce Department report released Tuesday. That is the highest figure recorded since the government began keeping track over 60 years ago, at least in nominal or non-inflation-adjusted terms.

Corporate profits have been going gangbusters for a while. Since their cyclical low in the fourth quarter of 2008, profits have grown for seven consecutive quarters, at some of the fastest rates in history.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not sure what your point is bro...

[MasterKiller]

Not sure what your point is bro...

d'uh! Businesses don't need more tax breaks.

Plenty of profits being made currently, yet hiring is still down.

Demand forces businesses to hire, not increased profit.

[BJJ-Blue]

d'uh! Businesses don't need more tax breaks.

Many economists disagree with that statement. And they darn sure don't need tax increases.


Demand forces businesses to hire, not increased profit.

But increased profit makes it easier to expand, develop new products, increase salaries, and hire new workers.

Just out of curiosity, what career field are you in?

[David Jamieson]

Yes i believe the argument being put forth that businesses hire more people because they pay less taxes is actually absurd.

Hiring is down because there is no demand for those services.

For instance, who wants to hire a web ninja? No one, that's who. lol

We hire as we need to meet a demand and we lay off when there is no demand and it has exactly zero to do with what we get in tax breaks or how much money we have on tap.

If we need a design engineer for a project, we hire one for that project.
Same as welders back in our shop, or finishers or chemical specialists etc.

The tax breaks, trickle down etc arguments are absurd and coming from an insulated and out of touch with reality place.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well, let's see a business pays for the employees and their benefits, they pay business taxes, corporate tax, they pay sales tax, they pay health tax, the pay WSIB ( Workers insurance) premiums.
When you buy a TV, for example, that TV you just bought and paid tax on has already paid tax when the vendor got it from the distributor and the distributor paid tax when they bout it from the MFG and the MFG paid tax when they bought the processed materials and the processed materials guys paid tax when they bought it as raw material (Lots of Tax eh?).
Businesses make profits inspite of tax's yes and they would obviously make MORE if they paid less tax, that is a given.
So why don't profitable businesses hire more?
See the first line of how much EACH employee costs a business and realize that a business will only hire more people and expend that profit on them IF THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.
When you have a profit the first thought is NOT to hire more people, but to invest that profit BACK into the company to LOWER expense and extra employees do NOT lower expenses.

[Drake]

Ireland boomed (and continues to do so) due to tax reform.

[MasterKiller]

But increased profit makes it easier to expand, develop new products, increase salaries, and hire new workers. It's no secret that American businesses have been sitting on a pile of cash for a couple of years. Yet, they aren't expanding because there is no demand for them to expand.

[MasterKiller]

Ireland boomed (and continues to do so) due to tax reform.

LOL. Read current news much?

[Drake]

I'm sure glad that not only do we have martial artists here, we have martial artists who are also political scientists and economic experts. :D

[Drake]

LOL. Read current news much?

Talking about Ireland bailing out the EU?

[MasterKiller]

I'm sure glad that not only do we have martial artists here, we have martial artists who are also political scientists and economic experts. :D

The 2008–2010 Irish financial crisis is a major ongoing economic crisis in Ireland that is in part responsible for the country falling into recession for the first time since the 1980s. The Irish government officially announced it was in recession in September 2008, with a sharp rise in unemployment occurring in the following months. Ireland was the first state in the Eurozone to enter recession as declared by the Central Statistics Office.

The numbers of people claiming unemployment benefit in Ireland rose to 326,000 in January 2009, the highest monthly level since records began in 1967. Amidst the crisis, which has coincided with a series of banking scandals, the ruling Fianna Fáil party fell to third place in an opinion poll conducted by The Irish Times. The party placed behind Fine Gael and Labour, the latter rising above Fianna Fáil for the first time.

The weakening conditions drew 120,000 protesters onto the streets of Dublin on 21 February 2009, amidst further threats of protests and industrial action. The Dublin's ISEQ index had reached 10,000 points briefly in April 2007. But on 24 February 2009, it fell over 3% to stand at 1,987 points, a 14-year low. The last time it stood under the 2,000 level was the middle of 1995.[3] This occurrence followed the unexpected resignation of former Anglo Irish Bank director Anne Heraty from the board of the Irish Stock Exchange the night before.

[BJJ-Blue]

It's no secret that American businesses have been sitting on a pile of cash for a couple of years. Yet, they aren't expanding because there is no demand for them to expand.

The first part is true, the second is only partially true.

The main reason businesses are sitting on their cash reserves at the moment is because they are unsure of next years tax laws. During uncertainty, businesses tend to play it safe.

Not to harp, but I'm really curious what career field you are in. Would you mind sharing that?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course, tax does drive up costs and I wil give you an example.
As of July of this year business that were exempt from sales tax ( manufacturing typically) now have to pay it.
An extra 8%.
Now that may not seem like much, but for a business hat buys 200K worth of good, that is an extra 16K they have to send the government, where do you think THAT is going to come from?
The consumer and if business CAN'T raise the price then they will have to get that 16K out of their profit which means a cut into their bottom line.
Sometimes it is NOT about tax cuts, but it is ALWAYS about NO MORE tax increases !

[MasterKiller]

Not to harp, but I'm really curious what career field you are in. Would you mind sharing that?

How much does your wife weigh? That info is just as pertinent to this conversation as my line of work.

[BJJ-Blue]

Sometimes it is NOT about tax cuts, but it is ALWAYS about NO MORE tax increases !

Well said, and true.

[BJJ-Blue]

How much does your wife weigh? That info is just as pertinent to this conversation as my line of work.

Do what?!?!

Since we are discussing the private sector, I want to know if you even work in (and thus have firsthand experience in) the private sector. For example I put alot of stock in what Drake has to say about current military matters as he currently works in the military.

Were we discussing fitness, nutrition, workout routines, etc I would answer that question about my wife's (and mine as well) weight as it would be pertinent to the discussion.

[MasterKiller]

Do what?!?!

Since we are discussing the private sector, I want to know if you even work in (and thus have firsthand experience in) the private sector. For example I put alot of stock in what Drake has to say about current military matters as he currently works in the military.

Were we discussing fitness, nutrition, workout routines, etc I would answer that question about my wife's (and mine as well) weight as it would be pertinent to the discussion.

Dude, you are a college dropout who works in IT. If that's the case, why should anyone listen to what you say about politics, or business, or finance for that matter?

[BJJ-Blue]

Dude, you are a college dropout who works in IT.

No, I'm not. So if you are going to say things about people, at least get it right.

[BJJ-Blue]

why should anyone listen to what you say about politics, or business, or finance for that matter?

But we should listen to someone who won't even tell us what career field he works in, assuming he even works at all. :rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

But we should listen to someone who won't even tell us what career field he works in, assuming he even works at all. :rolleyes:

LOL. I've said where I work many times, in threads where that information was pertinent. It's just not here.

Plus, let's not forget I also own my own school.

[Lucas]

For instance, who wants to hire a web ninja? No one, that's who. lol



I beg your pardon, my web ninja service phone has been ringing off the hook. its an old timey rotary phone....

[Lucas]

what do you guys think about taxing the **** out of companies that send jobs over sees. like a 'outsource tax' that or employ americans instead and dont get taxed?

just pulling that out my ass...but curious on your educated thoughts.

[BJJ-Blue]

LOL. I've said where I work many times, in threads where that information was pertinent. It's just not here.

Well, I disagree. When discussing the private sector, it's always good to know the private sector experience of those speaking.


Plus, let's not forget I also own my own school.

Congratulations. I wish you the best of luck in your field.

[BJJ-Blue]

what do you guys think about taxing the **** out of companies that send jobs over sees. like a 'outsource tax' that or employ americans instead and dont get taxed?

just pulling that out my ass...but curious on your educated thoughts.

If there wasn't such massive regulation, jobs wouldn't be outsourced like they are. Cut regulation, and the jobs will stay here. Increase regulation, and more will leave.

As to taxing the **** out of any company, we already pay the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

[David Jamieson]

Drake...uh, you been eating "special" brownies by chance? Or are you Irish or something? lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

what do you guys think about taxing the **** out of companies that send jobs over sees. like a 'outsource tax' that or employ americans instead and dont get taxed?

just pulling that out my ass...but curious on your educated thoughts.

You have to find WHY they send the jobs over seas and deal with THAT problem.
Its a global market and regulations won't make that reality go away.

[MasterKiller]

If there wasn't such massive regulation, jobs wouldn't be outsourced like they are. Cut regulation, and the jobs will stay here. Increase regulation, and more will leave.

As to taxing the **** out of any company, we already pay the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

And we also have one of the lowest personal tax rates in the world.

[Lucas]

hmmmmmmmmmmm

[BJJ-Blue]

And we also have one of the lowest personal tax rates in the world.

We aren't talking about income tax rates, we are talking about corporate taxes. It's corporations who are mainly outsourcing the jobs, not small businesses.

And just because the rest of the world overtaxes their citizens does not mean we should.