Fighting with Wing Chun

[Yoshiyahu]

If I practice my forms every day. Partner drills three times a week, Punches and kicks in the air against a heavy bag. practice drills on the wooden man and the form. Along with that I do chi sau and also practice the weapon forms. Will I be a good fighter? Great fighter or novice fighter with out actually sparring or fighting with people on a regular basis?


Also if some does all the drills, chi sau, forms and conditioning such as wooden man, wall bag and heavy bag training along with sparring different fighters varied skill levels. Will this person be a better fighter than someone who only practices wing chun?


In other words if I only practice wing chun but never spar. Would I be as good as someone who does both practice and spars with wing chun?

[bennyvt]

no, unless you do gor sao properly but you would still only be able to beat VT guys

[Yoshiyahu]

no, unless you do gor sao properly but you would still only be able to beat VT guys

So the key would be to spar different guys of different skill levels of different arts right?

[t_niehoff]

If I practice my forms every day. Partner drills three times a week, Punches and kicks in the air against a heavy bag. practice drills on the wooden man and the form. Along with that I do chi sau and also practice the weapon forms. Will I be a good fighter? Great fighter or novice fighter with out actually sparring or fighting with people on a regular basis?


Go to a MMA school or MT gym and spar, and see for yourself.

Why not actually go train with people who actually fight, see what they do, listen to what they have to say (instead of asking people who don't fight)?

Do the work, and all your questions will be answered.

[mjw]

Go to a MMA school or MT gym and spar, and see for yourself.

Why not actually go train with people who actually fight, see what they do, listen to what they have to say (instead of asking people who don't fight)?

Do the work, and all your questions will be answered.

Agreed

or do some gore sao

done and done:cool:

[AdrianK]

Can't really learn how to fight without fighting(sparring). That being said, even if you do spar/fight, it won't make you a great fighter. Some people just aren't mentally and/or physically suited to fight.

[Tom Kagan]

If I practice my forms every day. Partner drills three times a week, Punches and kicks in the air against a heavy bag. practice drills on the wooden man and the form. Along with that I do chi sau and also practice the weapon forms. Will I be a good fighter? Great fighter or novice fighter with out actually sparring or fighting with people on a regular basis?


Also if some does all the drills, chi sau, forms and conditioning such as wooden man, wall bag and heavy bag training along with sparring different fighters varied skill levels. Will this person be a better fighter than someone who only practices wing chun?


In other words if I only practice wing chun but never spar. Would I be as good as someone who does both practice and spars with wing chun?

Suppose, for a moment, there was incontrovertible proof that a practitioner could become every bit as good a fighter by practicing, as you suggest, "forms every day ... Partner drills three times a week ...punches and kicks in the air against a heavy bag ... practice drills on the wooden man and the form ... do chi sau and also practice the weapon forms". In other words, you know, based on others who came before you, that there is a real path to your desired outcome.

How would you know you personally succeeded?

And, perhaps more interestingly: why would you not want to confirm it?


A fighter *wants* to fight.

[mjw]

Can't really learn how to fight without fighting(sparring). That being said, even if you do spar/fight, it won't make you a great fighter. Some people just aren't mentally and/or physically suited to fight.

True though I would say sparring etc will prepare you more so in the event that one day you have to fight.....

[imperialtaichi]

One of my training brother was in a Chinese prison for 15 years, where he had to get into fights all the time.

His advice? Fight to the death until you don't feel it anymore. Then your visions are clear and your actions are decisive. Sparring with him, you can really feel what he means.

In the old days, almost all the Kung Fu schools are associated with triads, and many of the old Masters fought for survival. The late Great Master WSL had a knife scar across his forehead. Master Wan Kam Leung had a chunk of his hand missing, from machete. My training brother had scars everywhere and across his left eye. How many of us, would want to live a life like this?

Cheers,
John

[AdrianK]

True though I would say sparring etc will prepare you more so in the event that one day you have to fight.....

Well, it can't hurt, of course. It'll increase your effectiveness either way, even if that effectiveness goes from 0% to 5% :D

[mjw]

One of my training brother was in a Chinese prison for 15 years, where he had to get into fights all the time.

His advice? Fight to the death until you don't feel it anymore. Then your visions are clear and your actions are decisive. Sparring with him, you can really feel what he means.

In the old days, almost all the Kung Fu schools are associated with triads, and many of the old Masters fought for survival. The late Great Master WSL had a knife scar across his forehead. Master Wan Kam Leung had a chunk of his hand missing, from machete. My training brother had scars everywhere and across his left eye. How many of us, would want to live a life like this?

Cheers,
John

Thats why I would say it's best to try to avoid fights though I believe in sparring and trying to be as prepared as possible for if you have to fight....

[YungChun]

Well, it can't hurt, of course. It'll increase your effectiveness either way, even if that effectiveness goes from 0% to 5% :D

That's like saying that the chances of this group getting better at swimming by actually swimming may only be 0 to 5%.... IOW if they never swim there is a 95% chance they will be just as good at swimming as swimmers even though they never actually swam...

Pass dat $hit ova here yo..! :)

[mjw]

He said even if it goes from 0-5%

It could be that or more depending on how you train I would say but who knows.

[Yoshiyahu]

Go to a MMA school or MT gym and spar, and see for yourself.

Why not actually go train with people who actually fight, see what they do, listen to what they have to say (instead of asking people who don't fight)?

Do the work, and all your questions will be answered.

Good point Terrence. Buit how would they prepare you against a boxer or kyoshukin katarteka fighter. How would you fair with them if you sparred seasoned MMA and MT guys. Becayuse kyoshukin is different than MT? Would that be enough to prepare you or shouldnt you atleast get some training in Kyoshukin too?

[m1k3]

Good point Terrence. Buit how would they prepare you against a boxer or kyoshukin katarteka fighter. How would you fair with them if you sparred seasoned MMA and MT guys. Becayuse kyoshukin is different than MT? Would that be enough to prepare you or shouldnt you atleast get some training in Kyoshukin too?

Yoshi, your playing too much "what if". You can never answer all the what if questions. Go to a school that teaches striking in a realistic manner and then train or spar there. If it is realistic you will have a good foundation.

I train no-gi BJJ because it is an effective and realistic grappling style. I don't worry about what if I meet someone who trains Sambo or Upper Mongolian Tribal Wrestling. I know I have a good foundation. If I was going to go against a Sambo player I would find a Sambo school and train there but because I have a good foundation I can make the transition.

K?

[anerlich]

IOW if they never swim there is a 95% chance they will be just as good at swimming as swimmers even though they never actually swam...

Wholesale misuse of basic math. That's not what he said.

[Yoshiyahu]

Yoshi, your playing too much "what if". You can never answer all the what if questions. Go to a school that teaches striking in a realistic manner and then train or spar there. If it is realistic you will have a good foundation.

I train no-gi BJJ because it is an effective and realistic grappling style. I don't worry about what if I meet someone who trains Sambo or Upper Mongolian Tribal Wrestling. I know I have a good foundation. If I was going to go against a Sambo player I would find a Sambo school and train there but because I have a good foundation I can make the transition.

K?

You may have a good foundation but the Sambo fighter who crosstrained in No Gi BJJ will have more of foundation than you allowing him to have a platform to beat you!

[t_niehoff]

You may have a good foundation but the Sambo fighter who crosstrained in No Gi BJJ will have more of foundation than you allowing him to have a platform to beat you!

Wrong.

Go train BJJ BEFORE you begin drawing conclusions about BJJ or grappling.

[m1k3]

You may have a good foundation but the Sambo fighter who crosstrained in No Gi BJJ will have more of foundation than you allowing him to have a platform to beat you!

No, we would have pretty much the same foundtion and delivery platform. There would be some differences in stratagy and techniques due to the rules used in a match but the foundation and delivery system would be very similar.

So when I said I would go to a Sambo school it would be to focus on the differences that I would need for a Sambo match. I would have a huge head start over someone new coming in because I would already have the foundation and they would have to learn the foundation and delivery system.

As for getting beat, it would depend on who's the better grappler. And I don't need to go to another school to find people who can beat me. :D

[Yoshiyahu]

A sambo wrestler with previous training in BJJ prior to his level of
sambo wrestling is what i meant. Lets say the guy has trained in both arts as long as you have. An is adequate in both. His knowledge on both Sambo and BJJ gives him advantage because he rolled extensively with both my friend. Thats all i am saying...Same with striking....

A professional boxer many WC guys will not be able to beat because the training is harder when you fight professionally. But a professional boxer with previous training in Wing Chun will have a greater advantage than me. More so that the professional boxer who is going to cream me anyway...

I am not talking about no fresh newbies i am talking about someone seasoned in both arts.




Wrong.

Go train BJJ BEFORE you begin drawing conclusions about BJJ or grappling.


No, we would have pretty much the same foundtion and delivery platform. There would be some differences in stratagy and techniques due to the rules used in a match but the foundation and delivery system would be very similar.

So when I said I would go to a Sambo school it would be to focus on the differences that I would need for a Sambo match. I would have a huge head start over someone new coming in because I would already have the foundation and they would have to learn the foundation and delivery system.

As for getting beat, it would depend on who's the better grappler. And I don't need to go to another school to find people who can beat me. :D

[Lee Chiang Po]

It would seem that you need to learn the techniques well before you can fight with them. So learning comes first I think. You are not going to pick up technique while being beaten down. You have to have some fighting technique before you can actually fight. Learning is done in a learning environment only, and you try it out or prove it in a fighting environment. You learn nothing while actually fighting except that it hurts being slammed in the face.
People seem to forget what arts like WC are designed for. It is for everyone and anyone really, but it is designed to give you some sort of advantage against an opponent. And since everyone out there is not some sort of champion figher, you will be able to pull it off most times. And if you have to stand and trade licks, you are already beaten.
Forget about fighting and just learn your WC skills. If you need them they will be there and if you are committed, they will devistate an opponent. You don't have to go around fighting to prove it.

[YungChun]

It would seem that you need to learn the techniques well before you can fight with them.

True.. You do need basics before you start sparring... All fighting styles do that in their basic training.



You are not going to pick up technique while being beaten down.


Maybe not "technique" but you will begin to learn almost immediately what doesn't work..



Forget about fighting and just learn your WC skills. If you need them they will be there and if you are committed, they will devistate an opponent. You don't have to go around fighting to prove it.


Look what happens when we change this around a little:



Forget about playing golf and just learn your golf skills. If you need them they will be there and if you are committed, they will devistate an opponent. You don't have to go around playing golf to prove it.

Now doesn't that sound just a little silly?

The Kuit says: "Train hard when you are young or you'll have nothing when you're old.."

Do you think they meant to just do drills forever?

The basic training ends.. Then what?

I agree not everyone wants to fight...clearly.. But then one's ability/skill remains extremely minimal...