Do you use a sash?

[mickey]

Greetings,

I was introduced to the use of a sash a very long time ago. I could not get into it because it made me feel queasy.

What do you get out of it? How does it help you?

I thank you in advance.

mickey

[goju]

i use a weight lifting belt instead of a sash, I believe ive seem hung gar stylist use something of the sort as well.

i believe the purpose of the sash was to essentially hold your guts in place as the constant torque of the waist in striking could be unhealthy if one didnt use support.

[EarthDragon]

I use mine for its traditional intent only...................... to hold my drawstring pants up

[ginosifu]

A traditional sash was not a sash of fashion. It used by farmers and laborers to support stomache and back. Just like the safety harness used by workers of today.

ginosifu

[Frost]

we used one, especially when doing hard nei gung work, it was used to really tighten up the stomach and draw it in to help with the packing of the chi :)

[SPJ]

sash was used a belt in old clothing.

true, it may support your waist and back.

it is called binding the waist or shu yao 束腰

of course, there are binding around the wrist, binding above the ankle etc.

for me, a draw string pant works just fine.

:)

[Lucas]

you can take a cloth length 6-10 feet and 6 to 10 inch wide is good, and wrap it as is comfortable and snug but not too tight or loose or it is worthless. it can be good for the unconditioned and older when your core is not so strong. it can also just provide extra support for who ever. it also depends on the intensity you are practicing. we have a lot of waist torque in striking, a sash can also help support you for lifting.

[GeneChing]

I thought it helped with lower back support. At the time, I swore by it. But about ten years ago, I stopped using one. I think if I was training really rigorously, like back at Shaolin Temple or still instructing, I might don one again.

Sashes (http://www.martialartsmart.com/uniforms-sashes.html).

[Jimbo]

I did when I was still attending classes and when I taught. But I stopped wearing one altogether a few years ago. I got a right lower back muscle injury a few years ago (non-MA related) and had to cut back on and modify the really extreme torquing movements anyway. Since the training I do at this time is informal, I only wear the gi pants that I wore in BJJ and a T-shirt. All my kung fu pants got worn out, and the BJJ/judo-style gi pants are way more durable.

But like Gene, if I was to go back into harder training, I'd wear my sash again.

[SIFU RON]

Back support is important , some of us wore a leather wrap- around brace made by a friend of our sifu.

A regular kf sash is excellent for support.

[curenado]

Yup. We use the sash instead of the Karate type belt.

They are long so that they go around the body more than once. In formal settings having your sash aligned is appropriate. When training or fighting, having it offset covers more of the lower back and abdomen.

While I am sure a heavier weight belt or such would offer even more support an protection we do not currently have anyone who uses them.

If we had a heavier person or a person in not such good health, we might recommend the heavier belt until they were in better shape, especially for exercises or work that put more strain on the abdomen/lower back.

[jdhowland]

Still use them here. Can't buy the old style anymore so we have to make our own. A good yiu dai for an adult is at least 14 feet long. Some of the old silk ones were more than 20 feet. You tie one end to a doorknob or something and wind yourself into it. It acts as a truss, but apart from that, I find it's good to feel the waist so that you can learn to move the waist as a separate entity from the pelvis--a major feature of our style.

In past times the sash acted as a sort of under armor to keep you together a bit better if you got a belly wound. An historian told me once that the Huns used silk because, while it did not prevent punctures, it was strong enough to encapsulate an arrow head and keep the barbs from doing further damage when it was withdrawn.

This sort of long silk sash is still used in parts of India, as well.

Ramble, ramble, ramble...

[David Jamieson]

When you develop good core strength through your efforts, the sash becomes more and more about holding your pants up and less and less about providing you with lower back support.

If you are chronically injured (and I am, and so are a few others), then a weight lifting belt helps on those days that hurt a bit more than the others. Because once you've buggered your back, that's it.
You will always have some measure of discomfort with it for the rest of your life from time to time.

True story. :)

[curenado]

<<the sash becomes more and more about holding your pants up >>

I think one who is counting on the sash for holding the pants up will soon be fighting "au naturale'" Lol!

It is about developing the core strength - that is probably why it is only a sash instead of heavier gear, which would be more encumbering.

[GeneChing]

It's more about holding my body together sometimes. There were times when I was wrapped in so much neoprene that I felt like the Michelin Man. When I was at Shaolin, I got pretty dependent on bangtui too. Those are those elastic leg wraps that the monks and disciples wear. See our monk socks (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-001s.html). ;) There was no neoprene at Shaolin, except what I brought in. Shaolin practitioners will wrap their forearms and forelegs sometimes. I didn't do so much with the forearms, just the legs. That external compression can really help. For forearms, and this was only for lion dancing, I used to use traditional vambraces (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-15.html).

[Lucas]

It's more about holding my body together sometimes. There were times when I was wrapped in so much neoprene that I felt like the Michelin Man. When I was at Shaolin, I got pretty dependent on bangtui too. Those are those elastic leg wraps that the monks and disciples wear. See our monk socks (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-001s.html). ;) There was no neoprene at Shaolin, except what I brought in. Shaolin practitioners will wrap their forearms and forelegs sometimes. I didn't do so much with the forearms, just the legs. That external compression can really help. For forearms, and this was only for lion dancing, I used to use traditional vambraces (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-15.html).

you know what, this is going to sound really corny,, but at home ive been wearing those tabi boots when i train solo. i really like that i can tuck my pants into them, its almost like being bear foot, and it frees my calf/shin up but keep it covered at the same time but its so fast. like putting on slippers really.

[SPJ]

sash is not necessarily all silk.

it can be cotton.

silk is reserved for royalty and the rich classes in the old time.

---

[SIFU RON]

I used leather foreman vambraces when I fought the hands against the Butterfly Knives. They are usefull when open hand fighting against Daggers and Swords.

[YouKnowWho]

The sash is too soft and the weight lifting belt is too hard. I lke to use 板帶(Ban Dai) That's not too hard and not too soft. Something like the canvas belt.

http://www.google.com.hk/imglanding?q=canvas+belt&hl=zh-CN&safe=strict&sa=X&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS278US278&biw=1379&bih=752&tbs=isch:1&tbnid=_tX1Gy02XjZ5zM:&imgrefurl=http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/british-militaria/miltary-uniforms/us-army-belt-383408.html&imgurl=http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/images/product/main/US-BELT.jpg&zoom=1&w=200&h=200&iact=rc&ei=-bcKTZzKO9WUnQeNo7n5Dg&oei=0rcKTcLTDoa0lQfZuY3AAw&esq=5&page=5&tbnh=138&tbnw=140&start=114&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:114

[Lebaufist]

I make my own sashes out of heavy ply cotton. Works like a charm.

[Mas Judt]

Clearly some people don't know their sash from a hole in the ground...

[Yum Cha]

I use a traditional chinese one that is like a karate belt, that heavy woven pad of cotton, but only a short piece of it. The length is extended by several long cords that wrap around the waist, and tie off.

I find it helps me by supporting the lower abdomen a bit, and by holding up my pants a lot.

[David Jamieson]

mine is kevlar, gortex and neoprene with some elastene and cotton.

It's not a big heavy leather kidney belt, but has great back support qualities.

[EarthDragon]

DJ sounds more like a bullet proof vest...... can I intertest you in a colored silk ribbon with a yin yang symbol ironed on it?

[Lee Chiang Po]

When I was a young man I dressed more traditional, if you would call it that. I wore a sash most days. It felt good around the abdomen, protected it to some degree, and I could hide all sorts of sharp items in it. Coins with very sharp edges, small knives, brass knuckles, just a whole bunch of things can be hidden in one. They make a pretty good Garrot as well.

[Paul T England]

My students and I have alwasy sued the satin type sashes (which have been crap) but a few months ago I got a company to make me heavy cotton sashes and they offer much better back support and aid breathing etc.

Junior use satin sash
Adults use Cotton Sash
Lion Dancers us Wushu or Northern Sash


Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[jdhowland]

We use 5 yard lengths of trigger poplin. It is a good fabric for belts because it resists bunching up and turning into a useless rope around the waist.