this is what i deal with in NY

[EarthDragon]

a friend of mine just posted this link on his facebook because his son is now a black belt and entering into XMA Xtreme martial arts...................... he's 9 years old and joined when he was 7

why is there not a line out of my kwoon's door?
wake up America.......... this IS NOT martial arts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is complete crap and this guys got 4 locations and almost 1000 students.
Funny thing is he was one of roberst summers students adn when sensei summers moved to NC Ketchen changed his title to master....... self proclaimed



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhC7Relcq9Q&feature=player_embedded

[Violent Designs]

maybe he's just better at business and marketing? (no offense)

XMA is more catchy to the eye for retarded non martial artists, it's the truth.

[taai gihk yahn]

he has a polished, professional image, his studio is clean, modern and well-maintained, his advertising is clear-cut and markets well to his target audience (mid- to upper income), he shows workouts with people having a good time and that seem approachable to beginners, etc., etc., etc.

not getting down on you, but it seems the exact opposite of what your place looks like and the image you project; which is fine, I am not criticizing you, but whereas you appeal to a niche market, his appeal is broad-based, and therefore he attracts more students; I am also betting his business plan and marketing strategy are well-articulated, and that he has a very non-intimidating personal style;

while you are railing at America for their lack of MA savvy, he's living the American Dream because he understands how to cater to the mainstream's conception of what they think MA is or should be; and honestly, his stuff doesn't look terrible, it's pretty much standard strip-mall fare;

honestly, you just seem sour that the mainstream isn't in sync w ur thots about da r3alz...as my sifu says, you can be the ony one standing alone on the street corner preaching the "Truth" to no one, or you can be more skillful, and get the students in the door by meeting them where THEY are, and then nudge them along over time to a more profound realization of what you are teaching (this is from a Buddhist perspective, FYI);

[cerebus]

As much as we may not like it, Taai Gihk Yahn is 110% on the money. It's not about being the better or more authentic school, it's about who is the better businessman...

[EarthDragon]

guys thanks for the advice but I am not bitter, envious or jealous of his business. i am not looking for any more students at this time, my classes are filled.

My point was this is the type of school that exsists in todays world adn it makes me sick to my stomach as a MA teacher. Why is it that people would watch this clip and think they are getting good MA instruction?

isnt this the type of school that gaives MA a bad name. As fellow martial artsits how can you have anything postitive to say about schools like this?

I just wonder how he can have 4 locations when he teaches crap like this? is America that ignorant when it comes to MA instruction?
I mean a rape awarness class that teaches women when they are being chocked by a 200 black guy they should yell kiai and do a cheesy 3 move combo? or 6 year old black belts? is this really where this county has gone for MA????

[五祖拳]

I mean a rape awarness class that teaches women when they are being chocked by a 200 black guy


is this really where this county has gone

A '200 black guy'? Is this really where this world has gone?

[Drake]

Best defense against a larger male trying to rape you? Step one, do everything you can to avoid the situation. Step two, carry mace. Step three, get a gun and friggin learn how to use it.

Unfortunately, with the element of surprise, much more strength than the victim, and the threat of death if the woman (or man) refuses to comply, the odds are normally stacked against the victim. No casual KF, MMA, TKD, or anything else will change that. It would take some dedicated training on the part of the female to even the playing field to any degree.


As for the school. Good advertising, excellent use of A/V to excite the consumer. Approachable teachers, excellent facilities, and family oriented. They also offer a wide variety (quality irrelevant considering the target audience) of MA. Most Americans just want their kids to avoid becoming obese. They don't want ninja munchkins running around the house.

He self proclaimed himself a master? Yeah, like THAT doesn't happen very often... :rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

guys thanks for the advice but I am not bitter, envious or jealous of his business. i am not looking for any more students at this time, my classes are filled.
that is good to hear; and it shows that in fact there are sufficient numbers of people who are interested in content-quality that are not prone to mainstream marketing; but those are obviously the exception rather than the rule


My point was this is the type of school that exsists in todays world adn it makes me sick to my stomach as a MA teacher. Why is it that people would watch this clip and think they are getting good MA instruction?
seriously? are you that out of touch with the mindset of the genera public when it comes to their perception of MA? people want accessibility - if you couch your art in anything even vaguely esoteric, MOST people are going to get turned off;


isnt this the type of school that gaives MA a bad name.
as opposed to the squeaky-clean world of TCMA where there are no politics, back-stabbing, charlatans, gang-world affiliations or ANYTHING that could possibly give MA a bad name:rolleyes:


As fellow martial artsits how can you have anything postitive to say about schools like this?
because there are a lot of positives, in terms of how he presents himself, that he is able to operate a professional studio in an effective manner, that he appeals to a large range of people and is getting a lot of people off the couch and away from the TV and doing something physical; certainy there is a lot of BS in some of what he teaches, but of course, that is unique to XMA; you would NEVER EVER see anything BS or hokey in TCMA :rolleyes:


I just wonder how he can have 4 locations when he teaches crap like this? is America that ignorant when it comes to MA instruction?
as my sifu told my wife when she first came to this country: "french fries with 3 ketchups"; meaning that when dealing with Americans, one has to be blatant, obvious, explicit, specific - no innuendo, no appreciation for nuance, no implication - it's all "what you see is what you get"; as such, you get the XMA phenomenon;
I agree w u tho - in fact, I have a funny story about the lack of appreciation for quallity: I once posted on some forum that had video archives for all the "point-style" tournies w the kids swinging around their tooth-pick bo staffs; so this 14 yo girl was doing double whip chains in the jr. BB div., and people were cheering and posting comments on it like it was the greatest thing ever; of course, it was horrible, she had no idea what she was doing, real whip-chain players the world over were writhing in psychic agony at the effrontery; so i posted something to that effect, that what she was doing was hardly BB / advanced, that she lacked a lot of basics germaine to the weapon, that one should look at what kids in china hlaf her age were doing, etc.; well, people freaked - accused me of hating, that I was being insensitive to her feelings, that I shudn't compare her to chinese kids, that she was great, etc, etc.; in fact, I almost got banned, LOL (I got into a protracted PM w the admin, who, while eventually having to admit I was 100% spot on, still defended her position because, well, just because);


I mean a rape awarness class that teaches women when they are being chocked by a 200 black guy they should yell kiai and do a cheesy 3 move combo?
and yet if you go into "reputable" and "traditional" schools, a lot of them are teaching crap just as bad...or worse, teaching knife / gun defenses with authority but having no idea about the actual context...


or 6 year old black belts? is this really where this county has gone for MA????
look, it's all relative; I;m sure that 100 years ago, karate guys were complaining "what? a 30 y/o BB w only 15 yrs. experience? what's this world coming to?"

[bawang]

one thing good about these guys is they are honest about what they do. "combine tae kwon do with flashy gymnastics".


this is complete crap
still better than wing chun.

[lkfmdc]

Actually, in Japan, everyone in Highschool has a black belt

Only in America did it become this oopper dooper high rank

[Jimbo]

It also seems like (most?) people in Korea have a TKD black belt by a certain age.

I don't really care for the XMA myself, but at least it's a physical activity for kids that gets them off the couch and away from video games/computer. For a lot of kids, the fact that Taylor Lautner did XMA probably hasn't hurt its popularity, either. If that eventually leads them to some other physical activity in or out of MA, that's good, too. It's not as if the moves they do in XMA are a lifelong activity; in their 20s, most of those extreme acrobatic abilities begin to deteriorate anyway.

If the guy is giving people what they want to pay for, and if the kids are enjoying it, I don't see anything wrong with it. If the teacher's making good money at it, more power to him. As long as he isn't marketing it as something it isn't, at least it's honest money; certainly far better than being a drug dealer, etc.

[Frost]

guys thanks for the advice but I am not bitter, envious or jealous of his business. i am not looking for any more students at this time, my classes are filled.

My point was this is the type of school that exsists in todays world adn it makes me sick to my stomach as a MA teacher. Why is it that people would watch this clip and think they are getting good MA instruction?

isnt this the type of school that gaives MA a bad name. As fellow martial artsits how can you have anything postitive to say about schools like this?

I just wonder how he can have 4 locations when he teaches crap like this? is America that ignorant when it comes to MA instruction?
I mean a rape awarness class that teaches women when they are being chocked by a 200 black guy they should yell kiai and do a cheesy 3 move combo? or 6 year old black belts? is this really where this county has gone for MA????

How can having a clean gym, well attended classes, an expanding curriculum, healthy fit students be bad for MA? s:confused: So some of it looked staged and there was no sparring that we saw the weapons stuff was too wushu like ..To be honest so what people don’t really want to really fight and just want to have fun and get fit, which that lot were doing
What would you consider better? full contact fighting, gun defence, a tradition that can be traced back a hundred years.....hat exactly? Let’s face facts all styles were made up by someone at one stage who ended up calling themselves a master, and people learn this type of thing because they enjoy it and its fun, the days of learning a MA primarily for self defence are long gone, guns made that obsolete years ago

[IronWeasel]

A '200 black guy'? Is this really where this world has gone?



He's right, though...

200 black guys would be tough to beat.

[SoCo KungFu]

As much as I agree with the sentiment and schools like that make me wish we could bring back the days of dojo storming and taking it to the fairy boxers, I would just like to add one point.

The things that people are praising him for: clean gym, organized management, professionalism, etc. Everyone of those things is equally applicable to a quality school. Look at Ross's clips for instance. Every bit as clean, structured and organized. Probably more so since he's training people for a very specific goal. Honestly most MMA gyms and such (the ones that produce) have all those same qualities. Clean gyms a must for obvious reasons. Well organized layout with all the equipment and such available also a must. Structured training programs to meet the very specific goals. And professional because from a business standpoint because you're typically always dealing with promoters, fight organizers, licensing and all that other BS. AND there just happens to be really intimidating looking people doing intimidating looking things that tend to scare of the fairy boxers. BUT the organization in training should be readily apparent and confers to that newbie that does stick around, "Yes I too can succeed at this." Best of both worlds. Nothing that can't be done with a legit TCMA school.

That said, I still think there's something invigorating about training in a gym that looks like something out of Soviet Russia.

[mooyingmantis]

Earthdragon,
I can empathize with your frustration. However, old school is dead. They just haven't had the chance to shovel the dirt on our heads yet.
Peeps today want "made in Mexico", not Picasso. We must somehow show them the differences and inspire them to seek quality over facade.

[taai gihk yahn]

As much as I agree with the sentiment and schools like that make me wish we could bring back the days of dojo storming and taking it to the fairy boxers, I would just like to add one point.

The things that people are praising him for: clean gym, organized management, professionalism, etc. Everyone of those things is equally applicable to a quality school. Look at Ross's clips for instance. Every bit as clean, structured and organized. Probably more so since he's training people for a very specific goal. Honestly most MMA gyms and such (the ones that produce) have all those same qualities. Clean gyms a must for obvious reasons. Well organized layout with all the equipment and such available also a must. Structured training programs to meet the very specific goals. And professional because from a business standpoint because you're typically always dealing with promoters, fight organizers, licensing and all that other BS. AND there just happens to be really intimidating looking people doing intimidating looking things that tend to scare of the fairy boxers. BUT the organization in training should be readily apparent and confers to that newbie that does stick around, "Yes I too can succeed at this." Best of both worlds. Nothing that can't be done with a legit TCMA school.

That said, I still think there's something invigorating about training in a gym that looks like something out of Soviet Russia.

well said; notice, BTW, that nothing about a clean, professional environment PRECLUDES a quality program; the key is to provide a psychological sense of security for beginners;

here's an example, again, w my sifu, who teaches out of his loft / home in NYC; while he doesn't have the same "mall strip" look, his "school" is clean and welcoming (in his front halway, he has several shelves of various knick-knacks, and notes which one(s) new people are interested in and often uses that as a means of establishing a common topic of initial conversation) his demeanor is very approachable, his ability to connect with a wide range of people is highly developed, he works very closely w beginners in a manner where they "get" the material depending on their learning style, and he will modify as needed; however, at heart, he teaches a VERY classical Taoist curriculum, and does not compromise quality in the least; so the point is that while on the surface he goes to great lengths to give the new student a way in with minimal anxiety, he still maintains his "traditional" roots; at the same time, he has studied a wide variety of contemporary practices as well; (FYI, even though my teacher "came up" fighting on the streets, our school is not a martial school - it is 100% health / healing oriented; meaning that prospective students tend to be even more skittish than typical, because they often come on recommendation for dealing w health issues that they havnt been able to resolve w "mainstream" approaches)

just sayin'...

[omarthefish]

one thing good about these guys is they are honest about what they do. "combine tae kwon do with flashy gymnastics".


For example:

Most Americans just want their kids to avoid becoming obese. They don't want ninja munchkins running around the house.
Nevermind the kids. One of the women in the video stated openly that that was here own goal. She wanted a fun way to get in shape.


He self proclaimed himself a master? Yeah, like THAT doesn't happen very often... :rolleyes:
And who's to say he isn't a master....of Tae Kwon Do anyways.

Ironically, these are the same reasons that TKD is more popular than Kung Fu....even in China.

Most modern Chinese folks are either alienated or intimidated by their preconceptions about Kung Fu. You have either performance oriented wushu which is pretty much a kids only sport just like gymnastics is internationally, or you have the old timers in the park teaching stuff that sounds totally badass but also really mysterious and like you need 20 years to learn. Even if you are shopping for your kids in China, wushu is done mainly in big professionally oriented live-in schools, not after-school programs. In steps TKD with a simple pitch presenting exercise and discipline training for the kids. They get neato colored belts every 3 or 4 months and everybodies happy.

[bawang]

chinese people think taekwondo is deadly. lol

[David Jamieson]

chinese people think taekwondo is deadly. lol

tkd makes chinese people deadly. it's true.

[ginosifu]

EarthDragon:

I have the same sentiment as you, however look at this way:

We teach traditional Martial Arts, they are teaching performance or gymnastic arts. We teach Forms that are grounded in good solid self defense techniques. They teach forms that are mostly eye candy. We force people to learn what we teach. They give people what they want.

I do not consider these guy martial arts insrtructor at all. They are dancing / gymnastic teachers at best. Possibly a personal trainer and definately baby sitters. I have a TKD school near me and the parents who want their kids to learn how to actually defend themselves, come to my school and tell me how they are just playing with the kids.

EarthDragon, look at it in this light: These guys are weeding out all the bad students. They can have all those fluffy peeps that like that stuff. Which leaves more real potential martial arts students for you.

ginosifu

[EarthDragon]

thanks eveyone for your advice and kind words, just gets me in a uproar when I see crap like this.
Funny thing is he came to my qigong shifu for a healing and intorduced himself to her as master ketchen... she say if you master why you come see me? the chinese have a great way of being sarcastic and polite and respectful at the same time.

gone are the days of school challenges to prove your worthy of teaching. Now adays anyone can claim thier title and open up 4 locations take peoples money with a smile on their face...


ginsofu

EarthDragon, look at it in this light: These guys are weeding out all the bad students. They can have all those fluffy peeps that like that stuff. Which leaves more real potential martial arts students for you.

LOL how true my friend how true.

[PalmStriker]

Kids and people in general, in America have a real thing for uniforms, badges, trophies, plaques, etc. to show how effective they are. Goofus parents will spend dearly to be able to frame their kindergarten child's black belt certificate to hang in their living rooms. For them Wooshu= Fooshu= Booshu. I'll take the mooshu pork/shrimp rice combo anytime and let them fantasize over their accomplishments. Times, they keep a'changing! :D http://www.chinesericewine.com/2010/05/moo-shu-pork-in-mandarin-crepes/

[teetsao]

personally earthdragon, you should take it as a compliment. having 1000 students with prob 3 that are any good is not a good representation of oyu as a teacher. you should have 12 students and all of them real good. this is the most important. the guy in the video said everything the opposite of what kung fu really is. all of the korean schols are the same now. my judo teacher was an 84 olympic silver meadalist. his school started going towards the whole easy going world tae kwon do ass. after about a year. about a year later we parted ways. he was great and great at judo,but he put business before martial. not good. he now has 5 schools, but in my opinion all a joke. no real skill.

[EarthDragon]

thanks teet,
you are right, quality better than quanity anyday.
Just feel bad fo the peeps that are paying him and other schools like him without knowing if they are getting the best for thier buck.

You would think with the internet pl would do more reasearch and schools that teach fake stuff would be out of business instead of opening up more locations...:rolleyes:

[YouKnowWho]

Sometime people just want to go to a school and do their sit up, push up, running around the room, ... As long as they can have some work out, that may be all they care about. Serious MA training is not for everybody.

[teetsao]

i will say this though. if you do your research old school , schools' in the old days put on demonstrations to earn money and garner new students. look to do a chinese new year demo and pull out all the stops. showcase your best stuff. lion dance, best forms, break some $hit ,make it look good. then maybe you will get 25 new people then out of those you will gain 5 good students. like y.k.w. said though, it ain't for everyne.

[David Jamieson]

I like the Kung Fu filtration system.

The front end load contains a lot of "I wannna be this" types and the back end has very very few people coming out.

I hope to pop out of the Kung Fu extrusion system with a high quality of life, late into my years along with mental acuity sustained and physical integrity maintained.

As opposed to being an old burn out who thinks he learned some kungfu back in the day or the equally unwanted state of being of a flaky pseudo hippy meditator who never paid attention to the being as a unit and opted for a pot belly and sitting.

But, that's just me. :) That's just how I see this small part. I really don't care much for people who think they can be spoon fed skills. You either work at it enough, or you don't.

[Paul T England]

Adapt or die....traditional martial artists need to improve thier teaching methods to fit just as they have for the last 1000 years. Tradition is not static, most good kung fu guys can't teach for toffee! get professional and give the cowboys a run for their money!

My wife works in teaching management and hassled me for months suggesting I should have lesson plans etc. When I complained about my poor quality students, standards of coaching when I left someelse in charge etc. Finally I had to formulate lesson plans and guess what they are starting to pay dividends...better students, more control when I am not there to oversee teaching and a much deeper understanding of basics.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[David Jamieson]

Adapt or die....traditional martial artists need to improve thier teaching methods to fit just as they have for the last 1000 years. Tradition is not static, most good kung fu guys can't teach for toffee! get professional and give the cowboys a run for their money!

My wife works in teaching management and hassled me for months suggesting I should have lesson plans etc. When I complained about my poor quality students, standards of coaching when I left someelse in charge etc. Finally I had to formulate lesson plans and guess what they are starting to pay dividends...better students, more control when I am not there to oversee teaching and a much deeper understanding of basics.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

Paul, you say the arts need to improve their methods when you later go on to point out that it was you who needed to improve his teaching methods. Is the art different? Do you teach a stance differently and expect it to be developed differently because now you have a piece of paper that says "step 1, from 6-605-ish, sit in stance and then....

In short, yes, you as an individual must absolutely learn how to be a teacher and how to disseminate the methods. the learning is 100% the students responsibility and the teaching in a traditional environment will vary according to the skill and ability of the teacher.

The society you live in will dictate how to approach the people with the art form.

What you want to see expressed out of the art form is up to you as a teacher and as the one who is responsible for disseminating the system you know.

Do you want to stay esoteric with a small but dedicated group or do you want to get out there and make some money? Or do you want to produce carded fighters, or do you want to touch on as much of it as you can?

TCMA at it's core will still always be just that. :)

[Iron_Eagle_76]

It's been said already several times, but the truth of it is that real martial arts training is not for everyone. I really believe that the quicker we accept that there are more performance than practical schools, the more we can just do are own thing and stop worrying about what others do. Honestly, there is enough information available that people can make their own choice about what they want to do.

Personnally the whole nice, new, expensive looking health spa type gym does not appeal to me. I like a gym that looks like a dungeon, dimly lit, concrete place where you hear gym timers, smell sweat, and when people spar you can hear the cracks of leather from their bodies. But we all have our preference, in the end the fighters fight and the dancers dance.

[TenTigers]

one of my teachers once told me, "Give them what they think they want, while you give them what they need." If my students want more flash (and they have the ability) then I teach them Wu Dip Jeurng, which is a traditional Hung-Ga set, but with Northern influence-tornado kicks, ground scissors, dragon coil, and is very dynamic. We also have a Nam Kuen form which my Sifu created. Although it is considered a contemporary wu-shu set, it is comprised entirely of traditional moves from Hung Kuen and Hop Ga. These forms are very dynamic, but are not simply flash. They have substance.
Gung-Fu stands on its own. Lion Dance, weapon sets like the Kuan-dao, (what's cooler than a seven-foot can-opener?) Double broadswords, etc. Wicked self-defense applications. It all depends on how you present it.

[EarthDragon]

Iron Eagle

in the end the fighters fight and the dancers dance.

great quote

[ShaolinDan]

Oh, but what about 'slam dancing' (if you can remember the 80's)? Metal spiked leather isn't just for monks. :)

[TenTigers]

Oh, but what about 'slam dancing' (if you can remember the 80's)? Metal spiked leather isn't just for monks. :)
I had throwing stars clipped in the epulets of my leather jacket...
ah..those were the days...

[Scott R. Brown]

Aren't XMAs the ones who think that the louder you scream when performing a form the more Ki you have and the more advanced your skill?:rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

Aren't XMAs the ones who think that the louder you scream when performing a form the more Ki you have and the more advanced your skill?:rolleyes:

...and if they see blood, they go KAZY!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Actually, in Japan, everyone in Highschool has a black belt

Only in America did it become this oopper dooper high rank

Close enough to it.
When I trained at the kodokan I can't recall a class that didn't have a majority of BB.
The BB is like a high school diploma.
A 9 year old BB?
Bah, that is the state of sport performance MA, which is what XMA is.

[lkfmdc]

Close enough to it.
When I trained at the kodokan I can't recall a class that didn't have a majority of BB.
The BB is like a high school diploma.
A 9 year old BB?
Bah, that is the state of sport performance MA, which is what XMA is.

IN Japan, Judo and Kendo are high school sports like baseball and wrestling are here, in Korea it's Taekwondo (and Judo)

[Syn7]

ED... you told me ur a buddhist... you dont act like one alot of the time... this thread is case and point... live and let live man, if you didnt have beef you wouldnt try to drag this guy thru the mud... regardless of what his school is like or his credentials... lead by example, ONLY... words mean very little in the real martial world... and i aint talkin art here.... imo its the art aspect that waters most styles down...

[Syn7]

Best defense against a larger male trying to rape you? Step one, do everything you can to avoid the situation. Step two, carry mace. Step three, get a gun and friggin learn how to use it.

Unfortunately, with the element of surprise, much more strength than the victim, and the threat of death if the woman (or man) refuses to comply, the odds are normally stacked against the victim. No casual KF, MMA, TKD, or anything else will change that. It would take some dedicated training on the part of the female to even the playing field to any degree.


As for the school. Good advertising, excellent use of A/V to excite the consumer. Approachable teachers, excellent facilities, and family oriented. They also offer a wide variety (quality irrelevant considering the target audience) of MA. Most Americans just want their kids to avoid becoming obese. They don't want ninja munchkins running around the house.

He self proclaimed himself a master? Yeah, like THAT doesn't happen very often... :rolleyes:

agreed.......down the line...


i dont know why youre b!tching so much ED??? sour grapes will make you bitter son...

[Syn7]

He's right, though...

200 black guys would be tough to beat.

like what??? as opposed to a 200lb white guy? or a persian? or an indian? or a spaniard? or an egyptian???

[Syn7]

As much as I agree with the sentiment and schools like that make me wish we could bring back the days of dojo storming and taking it to the fairy boxers, I would just like to add one point.

The things that people are praising him for: clean gym, organized management, professionalism, etc. Everyone of those things is equally applicable to a quality school. Look at Ross's clips for instance. Every bit as clean, structured and organized. Probably more so since he's training people for a very specific goal. Honestly most MMA gyms and such (the ones that produce) have all those same qualities. Clean gyms a must for obvious reasons. Well organized layout with all the equipment and such available also a must. Structured training programs to meet the very specific goals. And professional because from a business standpoint because you're typically always dealing with promoters, fight organizers, licensing and all that other BS. AND there just happens to be really intimidating looking people doing intimidating looking things that tend to scare of the fairy boxers. BUT the organization in training should be readily apparent and confers to that newbie that does stick around, "Yes I too can succeed at this." Best of both worlds. Nothing that can't be done with a legit TCMA school.

That said, I still think there's something invigorating about training in a gym that looks like something out of Soviet Russia.

getting caught up in the atmosphere just takes away from the real training... but hey, if training like rocky makes you feel bad ass, rock on with your bad self...

[David Jamieson]

ED... you told me ur a buddhist... you dont act like one alot of the time... this thread is case and point... live and let live man, if you didnt have beef you wouldnt try to drag this guy thru the mud... regardless of what his school is like or his credentials... lead by example, ONLY... words mean very little in the real martial world... and i aint talkin art here.... imo its the art aspect that waters most styles down...


How is a buddhist supposed to act?

lol.

[Drake]

How is a buddhist supposed to act?

lol.

Look it up.

l.o.l.

[Syn7]

How is a buddhist supposed to act?

lol.

not like a jealous douche with a chip on thier shoulder about their own flower dance...

[David Jamieson]

Look it up.

l.o.l.

I'm somewhat versed. My question was somewhat facetious. lol

I don't agree with any "live and let live" statements. It is another way of saying "don't give a sh1t, just remain self absorbed".

:)

[David Jamieson]

not like a jealous douche with a chip on thier shoulder about their own flower dance...

says who?

reads like you got a kvetch with Michael more than you care about what he said or why he said it.

"flower dance"?

really, so this is your live and let live?

:rolleyes:

[Syn7]

says who?

reads like you got a kvetch with Michael more than you care about what he said or why he said it.

"flower dance"?

really, so this is your live and let live?

:rolleyes:

i never said i was a buddhist... come on son, keep up... i never once said i believe in live and let live... i said it reference to someone else... again, keep up...

yeah i dont take ED serious, as a person or a martial artist... you just figuring that out???


i bet the top tier at the strip mall dojo is in better shape than ED's top tier... just an assumption... nothing i really care to validate...

[Drake]

I'm not a buddhist. I'm just some ******* on the internets.

[David Jamieson]

i never said i was a buddhist... come on son, keep up... i never once said i believe in live and let live... i said it reference to someone else... again, keep up...

yeah i dont take ED serious, as a person or a martial artist... you just figuring that out???

so if that's the case, then say so and don't "live and let live" us. lol :p

also, I think I'm your senior, so "son" is inappropriate. :) If I am not your senior, I am fairly certain you are not old enough to be my father.

If you don't respect someone as a martial artist, then that's fine too.
But you've never actually met Michael, so I'm not sure how you can not respect him as a martial artists without ever having done anything of that sort with him.

Also, I don't spend my days trying to figure out who likes who here. lol

[Syn7]

I'm not a buddhist. I'm just some ******* on the internets.

exactly... and so am i, and jamieson, and so is ED... he may want to call himself a buddhist but nothing about his behaviour suggests he actually is a buddhist... not of any sect i know...

[David Jamieson]

*snip* I'm just some ******* on the internets.

which is what we all are here.

In person, I'm sure you're a fine individual, as are most people who come here.

[David Jamieson]

exactly... and so am i, and jamieson, and so is ED... he may want to call himself a buddhist but nothing about his behaviour suggests he actually is a buddhist... not of any sect i know...

again, you are doing it again!

what behaviour is he displaying that makes him out to not be a buddhist?

How many soldiers that called themselves christians put a bullet in someone today?

food for thought.

[Syn7]

so if that's the case, then say so and don't "live and let live" us. lol :p

also, I think I'm your senior, so "son" is inappropriate. :) If I am not your senior, I am fairly certain you are not old enough to be my father.

If you don't respect someone as a martial artist, then that's fine too.
But you've never actually met Michael, so I'm not sure how you can not respect him as a martial artists without ever having done anything of that sort with him.

Also, I don't spend my days trying to figure out who likes who here. lol

talking to you is like a one nighter with a club girl whos just entering her own little sexual revolution... i lose interest very fast...


just keep up, actually read what i write before you comment on it and we shouldnt have to discuss anything... i cant help it if you cant grasp the context of my words... i was quite clear, you put your own spin on it in your own mind... thats on you... reminds me of the first part of the nin quote in my sig...

[Syn7]

How many soldiers that called themselves christians put a bullet in someone today?

if you dont follow the rules of christianity you arent a christian... personally, i think all christians are hypocrites... and i think 99.9% of buddhists who arent born into it are frauds who prolly believe they actually are buddhists... the ones who are born into it are mpore likely to subscribe to its basics but even then, most dont...


saying "im a christian" doesnt make you a christian...

any of this is hardly food for thought...


im judging "micheal" solely based on his posts... i always reserve the right to change my mind... so far all ive seen is douchebaggery... hence the opinion... nothing abstract about it... no assumptions needed, his posts are more than enough...
in this case, his letting this strip mall stuff get under his skin is very unbuddhist... complaining about it on a public forum is even more unbuddhist...

im sure he is a nice guy... i know tons of douchebags who are "nice guys"... being nice to my face isnt always enough to gain my respect... maybe you are easilly swayed by a smile and friendly words... im not...

[sanjuro_ronin]

personally, i think all christians are hypocrites... and i think 99.9% of buddhists who arent born into it are frauds who prolly believe they actually are buddhists... the ones who are born into it are mpore likely to subscribe to its basics but even then, most dont...

Thanks Mahatma !
:rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

talking to you is like a one nighter with a club girl whos just entering her own little sexual revolution... i lose interest very fast...


just keep up, actually read what i write before you comment on it and we shouldnt have to discuss anything... i cant help it if you cant grasp the context of my words... i was quite clear, you put your own spin on it in your own mind... thats on you... reminds me of the first part of the nin quote in my sig...

You lose interest and become passive aggressive because your points are shyte when held up to the light.

You then make statements such as the one that follows as if you have some secret knowledge when in fact you've been corrected or made to take a look at your error and your embarassment puts you oin the defensive, so, thinking you've lost face, which you haven't because you are anonymous and have no face to lose, you run off with "read me again" or "listen son" or some other construct wrapped up in yoru own agrandizement recovery. :rolleyes:

whatever dude, lecture yourself ok? lol You said something stupid, I pointed out that you said something stupid and now you are merely trying to make it seem as if you never said anything stupid at all!

woot woot.

Your blurbs are really quite simple enough that there is nothing that is difficult to grasp in anything you say. I don't know what gives you the notion that there is anything deep in there. lol :p

anyway, if you must retort with more . go ahead. this thread is death spiral material now anyway. :rolleyes:

[Syn7]

.

Thanks Mahatma !
:rolleyes:

you really think i have a "great soul"????


i have the same criticisms of all forms of organized religion aswell as ALL creationists, be it a single seekr or a group thing... i feel creationism in general is a weakness...

[Syn7]

so you feel b!tching about another is becoming of a buddhist???

i dont see where youve proved me wrong in anything... if i thought i was wrong i would say so, as i have before... infact, i didnt really offer you any opinions to counter... i just said he's a douche and only thinks he's buddhist... so i dont see how you can claim a W on an argument that hasnt happened??? what points did you counter exactly???

i lose interest because talking to you is futile... you make a few statements then rest on your so called laurels claiming some victory... to me thats just annoying, so yeah i lose interest... im not gonna appologize for that...

and my attitude didnt change at all... you walked into my attitude, it was there since my first post today... especially in the off topic section with bjjblue...

just because i dont respect you doesnt mean im intimidated by you or your opinions... get over yourself... call it what you want, but my behavior has been consistant...

[David Jamieson]

so you feel b!tching about another is becoming of a buddhist???

i dont see where youve proved me wrong in anything... if i thought i was wrong i would say so, as i have before...

i lose interest because talking to you is futile... you make a few statements then rest on your so called laurels claiming some victory... to me thats just annoying, so yeah i lose interest... im not gonna appologize for that...

and my attitude didnt change at all... you walked into my attitude, it was there since my first post today... especially in the off topic section with bjjblue...

just because i dont respect you doesnt mean im intimidated by you or your opinions... get over yourself... call it what you want, but my behavior has been consistant...


:rolleyes: lol.

awesome. just awesome.

carry on! :p

[Syn7]

:rolleyes: lol.

awesome. just awesome.

carry on! :p

mhm... whenever you feel like being accountable, just let me know... you can show me all the points you countered to send me into a passive aggressive backstep in order to "save face"...


i could turn around and say the same sh!t right back atcha... you say "awesome, just awesome" rather than back your assertions... rather than to show me all the points you countered to "prove" me wrong... ur words, not mine...

all i said is that i thought he was a sh!tty buddhist wannabe, a flower dancer, and a douche... youre the one who got bent outta shape over it...

[sanjuro_ronin]

you really think i have a "great soul"????


i have the same criticisms of all forms of organized religion aswell as ALL creationists, be it a single seekr or a group thing... i feel creationism in general is a weakness...

Dude, your issues ( or mine) with a religion or ideology has nothing to do with individuals that may practice/believe said ideology.
For ever crappy Christian there is a good one, for every crappy Jew, there is a good one, etc, etc.
I would venture to say that for every crappy *insert religion here* there are far more better ones.
How do I know this?
Simple.
Look around.

[bawang]

a good christian dont post picturs of neked woman on internet


i think tibetan buddism is the best religion. u play human bone flutes, chant in scary voices and contemplate the darma by looking at paintings of demons having sex

[sanjuro_ronin]

a good christian dont post picturs of neked woman on internet

No, they post semi-naked pictures of women on the internet.
:p

[David Jamieson]

mhm... whenever you feel like being accountable, just let me know... you can show me all the points you countered to send me into a passive aggressive backstep in order to "save face"...


i could turn around and say the same sh!t right back atcha... you say "awesome, just awesome" rather than back your assertions... rather than to show me all the points you countered to "prove" me wrong... ur words, not mine...

all i said is that i thought he was a sh!tty buddhist wannabe, a flower dancer, and a douche... youre the one who got bent outta shape over it...

let me put it this way.

a) you are not a Buddhist by your own admission. yet you make statements as if you know how one should act as such.

b) you call him a flower dancer and have never once in your life been to his club or seen any of the material he teaches.

c) your commentary about whether or not someone is a douche speaks for itself.

That clear enough? Or do you need smaller words and a longer bullet list to point out how utterly wrong you are in this thread and yet insist on making further posts to make that concrete?

You are talking out of your ass and you are just self absorbed enough to think that you are right about this utter garbage you're going on about in regards to religion and religio-philosophy which you yourself stated you knew little if anything about.

why bother talkinag about algebra if you have zero knowledge of mathematics?

You don't make sense is what the bottom line is and if you just want to spew vitriol for the sake of it, then fine.

Don't try to paint up a donkey and call it a mule then try to sell it as a horse.

Do you want to rebut that too now? With how innocent you are and how together you have it and how clear it all is to you and what ass hats we are for pointing out that you are the one being a jerk here.

Or are we all wrong and you are right?

what say you mahatma? lol

[bawang]

i think syn speak truth and have honor. earth dragon more like earth poopoo LOL

[Syn7]

Dude, your issues ( or mine) with a religion or ideology has nothing to do with individuals that may practice/believe said ideology.
For ever crappy Christian there is a good one, for every crappy Jew, there is a good one, etc, etc.
I would venture to say that for every crappy *insert religion here* there are far more better ones.
How do I know this?
Simple.
Look around.

i disagree... i think there is more to being a good person than simply smiling and being nice, maybe helping a few people before you believe you will be judged on said behaviour, and simply not harming others with malice...

i actually agree with jamieson here, i think live and let live is a bad philosophy, and a dangerous one...

besides, most people dont know much about their religions, they just do their thing and wear the label... the majority get caught up in the superficial details and miss the goods altogether... like focusing on the finger, not the celestial bodies its trying to show you...

do i think most people are reletively harmless compared to the bad examples? sure... do i think most people just do their thing, love their fams and go thru life trying to look out for eachother? sure.... do i think the majority of people are in any way shape or form righteous? not even a little bit... im dissapointed in almost all of us, myself most of all... not that i dont enjoy my life, but it hurts me to see what we could be and then to realise what we are...

and creationism as a whole, i feel is a dangerous crutch for weak hearts... they preach accountability yet have no idea what accountability is if they are willing to submit to faith based ideals... to lean on something other than eachother... and the worst, to be so weak that you believe you need divine intervention of sorts...

[sanjuro_ronin]

i disagree... i think there is more to being a good person than simply smiling and being nice, maybe helping a few people before you believe you will be judged on said behaviour, and simply not harming others with malice...

Indeed there is more to it than that.
But if you don't believe in a religion or ideology that advocates more than that, what makes you think that there is more than that to it?

[Syn7]

let me put it this way.

a) you are not a Buddhist by your own admission. yet you make statements as if you know how one should act as such.

b) you call him a flower dancer and have never once in your life been to his club or seen any of the material he teaches.

c) your commentary about whether or not someone is a douche speaks for itself.

That clear enough? Or do you need smaller words and a longer bullet list to point out how utterly wrong you are in this thread and yet insist on making further posts to make that concrete?

You are talking out of your ass and you are just self absorbed enough to think that you are right about this utter garbage you're going on about in regards to religion and religio-philosophy which you yourself stated you knew little if anything about.

why bother talkinag about algebra if you have zero knowledge of mathematics?

You don't make sense is what the bottom line is and if you just want to spew vitriol for the sake of it, then fine.

Don't try to paint up a donkey and call it a mule then try to sell it as a horse.

Do you want to rebut that too now? With how innocent you are and how together you have it and how clear it all is to you and what ass hats we are for pointing out that you are the one being a jerk here.

Or are we all wrong and you are right?

what say you mahatma? lol

i was a d!ck to your friend and you tried to come to his rescue... thats all this is and ever was... so dont front like it wasnt...

you make alot of assumptions about A) what i know about buddhism and how i know it and B) like you know how i feel about myself and the world around me... its funny, i dont remember giving up very much... whereas you probably have a pretty good understanding about how i feel about MA... but thats because ive mentioned it... i dont remember telling anyone on here very much at all about my philisophical beliefs... ive said a few things i dont believe, thats all... so for you to assume that means i feel i have it all figured out, well, that just makes you look like a retard...

and you should talk about passive aggressive, thats your whole game...

[Syn7]

Indeed there is more to it than that.
But if you don't believe in a religion or ideology that advocates more than that, what makes you think that there is more than that to it?

i can only speak on what i know... i know what it is to grow up with a very catholic side to my fam... i thought i was a buddhist once... but then i actually learned alot about buddhism, many sects... im no buddhist... i like some basic principles from many areas of spiritual thought, but none as a whole grab me as being more about truth and less about control... for the majority anyways... rank and filers do not deserve my respect, that goes without saying... but i take it further than that... but that doesnt mean i feel im above all that and have all the answers... i take after the other side of the fam... my grampa gave me carl sagans the cosmos and an aristotle book when i was 9... from then on ive put alot of time into understanding physics and spirituality... to such an extent that i dont see much difference between the two alot of the time... science and philosophy... the two most important topics imo...

[bawang]

catholics are idolators and sodomizers. jehovahs witnesses are the true christians.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i can only speak on what i know... i know what it is to grow up with a very catholic side to my fam... i thought i was a buddhist once... but then i actually learned alot about buddhism, many sects... im no buddhist... i like some basic principles from many areas of spiritual thought, but none as a whole grab me as being more about truth and less about control... for the majority anyways... rank and filers do not deserve my respect, that goes without saying... but i take it further than that... but that doesnt mean i feel im above all that and have all the answers... i take after the other side of the fam... my grampa gave me carl sagans the cosmos and an aristotle book when i was 9... from then on ive put alot of time into understanding physics and spirituality... to such an extent that i dont see much difference between the two alot of the time... science and philosophy... the two most important topics imo...

Science and religion and philosophy are subjects for the ages, that's for sure.

Just remember that organised religion and religion are not the same thing and that now the "width" of something is not the same as knowing the "depth" of it.
;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

catholics are idolators and sodomizers. jehovahs witnesses are the true christians.

ROTFLMAO !!!
And I say this as someone that has a father, mother and older sister that are JW's.
:eek:

[David Jamieson]

i was a d!ck to your friend and you tried to come to his rescue... thats all this is and ever was... so dont front like it wasnt...

you make alot of assumptions about A) what i know about buddhism and how i know it and B) like you know how i feel about myself and the world around me... its funny, i dont remember giving up very much... whereas you probably have a pretty good understanding about how i feel about MA... but thats because ive mentioned it... i dont remember telling anyone on here very much at all about my philisophical beliefs... ive said a few things i dont believe, thats all... so for you to assume that means i feel i have it all figured out, well, that just makes you look like a retard...

and you should talk about passive aggressive, thats your whole game...

You project a lot of your opinion out there. Maybe that's why you struggle with the facts.

I asked you what is it that a buddhist is supposed to act like.

then you got defensive and we got to where we are now. If you need time to review that cycle of events and have your aha moment, you go right ahead. :)

Now you insist that I'm a "retard".

You said yourself you don't know much about buddhism, I assumed nothing, I took your word for it.

You express in your comments how you feel and your comments reveal other aspects about your character as well, you know, what with you typing it out and saying it and standing by what you say and such. That defines parts of yoru character, whether you want it to or not.

Your need to be contrary no matter what is said speaks volumes about your character. Which I find lacking, misguided, self absorbed, uninformed and too angry about things unknown where the energy could be better spent coming to know them.

Close that door! You're a clever boy. I'm sure. :)

as for passive aggressive, I'm not, I'm calling you out and saying you are in error. Not passively, and not aggressively. Just pointing it out. If you don't like that, well too bad, don't write such banal quick triggered jerky things. :)

[bawang]

ROTFLMAO !!!
And I say this as someone that has a father, mother and older sister that are JW's.
:eek:

wow bro, i feel sorry for you. do they cut off all contact wit u?

[David Jamieson]

Religions are cults. All religions of all faiths. But, does that make them evil?

Is a cult evil because it's a cult?

What is a cult anyway?

Could it be said it is at least a few people who believe in and adhere to the same tenets as defined by a particular doctrine or dogma which in turn states a belief that cannot be qualified or quantified in any other way than to be faithful to it?

Cults can be family, guidance, character development, a system of morality and many other beneficial things to the people who function within them.


They are often born of schism, like the JW's were but point to the bigger underlying point of belief. In the case of cults such as the Christian cults are, there is a lot of good stuff that comes out of them and people look to them because they do not feel it is within their power to contain themselves in the social construct and need to find that containment in the sub society of a cult.

Cults are dangerous in context to those who do harm. Like the shining path cult, or Jim Jones koolaid party, or in more recent memory, the messianic cult of David Koresh.

a small cult can grow into a huge global religion. In fact, they have! Despite of the teachings of those who laid down the word. Particularly contrary to Christianity are group worship churches, altars, icons, saints, etc, you name it and there is a contradiction to it in the words attributed to Jesus.

every stone of every built christian church on the planet can be refuted out of existence by the attributed teachings of Jesus himself.

Pretty amazing eh.

so, If you want to talk about just how far down the rabbit hole the Abilene paradox goes, cults and their churches are a perfect example! lol

This doesn't make Christianity bad. Not in the least. I find the teachings to be quite beautiful. As I find of all religions really. I also find it curious that the underlying message has nothing to do with the superfluous constructs heaped on top of them such as priestly intercession, churches, tithes, congregations, nuns, etc etc etc etc. All vehicles of men who wish to be the golden calf themselves!
:)

[YouKnowWho]

... buddhism, ...

Buddism:

beginner level - you inhale positive energy (happiness, love, ...) and exhale negative energy (sadness, hate, ..).

intermediate level - you inhale positive energy and exhale positive energy.

advance level - you inhale negative energy and exhale positive energy.

[David Jamieson]

Buddism:

beginner level - you inhale positive energy (happiness, love, ...) and exhale negative energy (sadness, hate, ..).

intermediate level - you inhale positive energy and exhale positive energy.

advance level - you inhale negative energy and exhale positive energy.

meaningless cryptic allegorical nonsense. :p

we are men.

we act like men.

we have always acted like men.

religion and the tenets of love merely temper us and keep us from spiralling into chaos and death.

In zen buddhism, you just breath, inspire/expire and be. Be a human being. Be what you are.

:p

[YouKnowWho]

we are men.
I won't go to heaven until I can save all the souls in hell. Sure feel good to talk like God. :p

[David Jamieson]

I won't go to heaven until I can save all the souls in hell. Sure feel good to talk like God. :p

You're in heaven now...if you want it!
:)

[Lucas]

You're in heaven now...if you want it!
:)

Or Hell!!!!!

:D

[Scott R. Brown]

... he may want to call himself a buddhist but nothing about his behaviour suggests he actually is a buddhist... not of any sect i know...

I just love it when people who do not practice a specific religion think they have enough understanding of it to criticize those who do practice it.


if you dont follow the rules of christianity you arent a christian... personally, i think all christians are hypocrites... and i think 99.9% of buddhists who arent born into it are frauds who prolly believe they actually are buddhists... the ones who are born into it are mpore likely to subscribe to its basics but even then, most dont...


saying "im a christian" doesnt make you a christian...

unbuddhist... complaining about it on a public forum is even more unbuddhist...

Since you are neither by your own admission, do you not see the narcissism of your attitude? You presume to be critical of religions you clearly do not understand.

Perhaps spend a little more time introspecting into your own imperfections instead of projecting your own unrealistic expectations onto to others and then criticizing them for not living up to your flawed ideals.


a good christian dont post picturs of neked woman on internet

Uhhhh, yes they do!


besides, most people dont know much about their religions,

Clearly neither do you!


....they just do their thing and wear the label... the majority get caught up in the superficial details and miss the goods altogether... like focusing on the finger, not the celestial bodies its trying to show you...

Aside from the repeating a mysterious sounding Asian platitude of which you clearly have little understanding, how are you any different than these people? There is superficial understanding written in your every post concerning religions!


and creationism as a whole, i feel is a dangerous crutch for weak hearts... they preach accountability yet have no idea what accountability is if they are willing to submit to faith based ideals... to lean on something other than eachother... and the worst, to be so weak that you believe you need divine intervention of sorts...

You don't understand faith! Everything is based upon faith. Your grandfather should have also given you Plato. In the dialogues Socrates attempts to demonstrate that all knowledge is based upon principles that cannot be rationally defined. That is, definitions of any kind are based upon a kind of "faith"!

This is the foolishness of those who criticize the "faith" of others! They do not see that the foundations of their own belief systems are also based upon faith. Which is why it is more profitable for one to introspect into themselves FIRST, before they presume to be critical of what they do not understand in others.;)


you make alot of assumptions about A) what i know about buddhism and how i know it a... i dont remember telling anyone on here very much at all about my philisophical beliefs... ive said a few things i dont believe, thats all... so for you to assume that means i feel i have it all figured out, well, that just makes you look like a retard..

And yet you too have made a lot of assumptions of Ed or Mike or David or whoever! All you have done is demonstrate to others how little you understand. Why do you "presume" to understand others and then comment that others are "presuming" about you? You have done nothing but presume from your first post! Perhaps apply the same principles you expect from others towards yourself first!


i can only speak on what i know... i know what it is to grow up with a very catholic side to my fam... i thought i was a buddhist once... but then i actually learned alot about buddhism, many sects... im no buddhist... i like some basic principles from many areas of spiritual thought, but none as a whole grab me as being more about truth and less about control... for the majority anyways... rank and filers do not deserve my respect, that goes without saying... but i take it further than that... but that doesnt mean i feel im above all that and have all the answers... i take after the other side of the fam... my grampa gave me carl sagans the cosmos and an aristotle book when i was 9... from then on ive put alot of time into understanding physics and spirituality... to such an extent that i dont see much difference between the two alot of the time... science and philosophy... the two most important topics imo...

I would posit you understand little of either


Buddism:

beginner level - you inhale positive energy (happiness, love, ...) and exhale negative energy (sadness, hate, ..).

intermediate level - you inhale positive energy and exhale positive energy.

advance level - you inhale negative energy and exhale positive energy.

Super advanced level - Recognizing that positive and negative energy are false forms created by mind, there is no distinction drawn between the two, so no transformation from one false form to another false form is necessary, because transformation is merely apparent not actual.

[YouKnowWho]

Super advanced level - Recognizing that positive and negative energy are false forms created by mind, there is no distinction drawn between the two, so no transformation from one false form to another false form is necessary, because transformation is merely apparent not actual.

From 六祖 (Liu Zu):

Since our heart (mind) is not a mirror, the dust (evil) will not have any chance to attach on it.

[Drake]

First mistake to make as an atheist is to say that all the religions are wrong and that they're cults.

You aren't a valid authority to make that call, as you have no more of a clue about the reason of life than anyone else. It makes you look like a big nasty donkey ass. You don't like christians telling you about jesus, yet you go out of your way to throw in your two cents about what YOU believe. What kind of *******, ignorant hypocrite does that make you out to be?

And if you want to know the difference between a cult and religion, there are more than enough places to find out the exact, accepted definitions of what separates the two.

I am an atheist, and if someone wants to worship a big, pink bunny, then by all means, when I die and am greeted by a pastel colored rabbit, I'll admit I'm wrong. But in the meantime, I am not going to tell someone they are wrong just because they don't believe what I do. Isn't that the same **** you accuse christians of doing?

Note: This was aimed at DJ, if you folks were unable to put that together

[Scott R. Brown]

from 六祖 (liu zu):

Since our heart (mind) is not a mirror, the dust (evil) will not have any chance to attach on it.

;)

.........

[Scott R. Brown]

First mistake to make as an atheist is to say that all the religions are wrong and that they're cults.

You aren't a valid authority to make that call, as you have no more of a clue about the reason of life than anyone else. It makes you look like a big nasty donkey ass. You don't like christians telling you about jesus, yet you go out of your way to throw in your two cents about what YOU believe. What kind of *******, ignorant hypocrite does that make you out to be?

And if you want to know the difference between a cult and religion, there are more than enough places to find out the exact, accepted definitions of what separates the two.

I am an atheist, and if someone wants to worship a big, pink bunny, then by all means, when I die and am greeted by a pastel colored rabbit, I'll admit I'm wrong. But in the meantime, I am not going to tell someone they are wrong just because they don't believe what I do. Isn't that the same **** you accuse christians of doing?

Note: This was aimed at DJ, if you folks were unable to put that together

Except that your post, "....makes you look like a big nasty donkey ass" too!

So the question is, "What is one to do?"

You're an donkey ass if you do and a donkey ass if you don't!:eek::p;):D:rolleyes::mad::o:(:cool:

[David Jamieson]

Looking back, I apologize to anyone who was offended by my ferocity. :)

[taai gihk yahn]

if u r an atheist, then, de facto, u ARE saying that everyone who believes in a god of any sorts is wrong; however, it is then up to you to go make a point of emphasizing it or not; personally, I find the whole notion of god-belief to just be, well, silly and I have very specific reasons for this, but I seldom articulate them, because there's really no point! I am not interested in "converting" anyone else t my point of view, because what difference would that make? and certainly, I firmly respect everyone's right to believe whatever they like- however, it doesn't mean that I have to respect that belief, per se - you can believe in the big pink bunny, and I am all for protecting that belief, even tho I personally find it idiotic; but, and here's the thing, I can find it ridiculous, but it doesn't mean that I have to tell that to someone that - in fact, typically, I avoid discussing my belief system, because it seems to make a lot of 'believers" uncomfortable - they either try to convince me I am wrong (as silly as me trying to convince them they are wrong), or just become uncomfortable, especially by the fact that while my lack of belief often bothers them, I do not find myself bothered by their belief, I just think it's silly; but again, I don't bring it up because I don't see the point of doing so - I will never "compromise" w a theist (like "admit" that I may be wrong, because I firmly believe I am right), and don't expect them to come over to my point of view;
I am also a Buddhist, offcially speaking, because I took refuge w a monk (Abbott Ming Gwong of Chuang Yen monastery in upstate NY); if u haven't taken refuge, u r technically not a Buddhist; altho u can still practice as one just as well...

[TenTigers]

I LOVE Chuang Yen Monastery! My ex and I said our vows there. I also Lion Danced at their opening-the Dalai Lama fed me two lai-sees. I bit his head! LOL
Have you ever been to the Mahayana Temple near Windham? I pass it every time I go skiing, but never stopped in.

[taai gihk yahn]

I LOVE Chuang Yen Monastery! My ex and I said our vows there. I also Lion Danced at their opening-the Dalai Lama fed me two lai-sees. I bit his head! LOL

that's VERY cool about lion dancing for the Dalai Lama! and yeah, I heard that opening was huge in terms of who attended; how did you get hooked in there?

it is a great place (in fact, just stopped by this past October for the first time in a few years); I first did a 7-day retreat there in ~'98 - my sifu had stopped in the year before and met the Abbott who "challenged" him to come to a retreat, so sifu said, "ok, if I can bring some students", not telling the Abbott the his students were not Chinese! so the first year we went, the whole 7 days was pretty much in Chinese and in a way the presence of non-chinese was a bit of a challenge for them as well, in terms of how to accommodate us - they felt responsible for us, that it was their responsibiity to get the "teaching" to us because we made the effort to come there, so they had to figure out how to translate on the fly, which was generous of them (of course, now they have a comprehensive English-language program);
over the years there have been several Abbotts, each ran the seshin a bit differently; one in particular was a pretty "heavy" dude, he has a retreat center in Taiwan that has something like 100,000 members or some crazy big number like that - he taught a form of what was essentially Vadjrayana Ch'an (!) - a lot of VERY esoteric visualization / chanting to Zhuen Ti Boddhisatva w all kinds of "protection" seals and the like;


Have you ever been to the Mahayana Temple near Windham? I pass it every time I go skiing, but never stopped in.
didn't even know it existed; what's it called?

btw, check out the USSD thread - I've been "watchlisted" by the jack-booted thugs in their legal department :rolleyes:

[Drake]

Why would I ty to "convert" anyone? And the whole "prove god doesn't exist" argument is a nasty burden of truth fallacy. That would be as if I said "Prove the great god Daizan doesn't exist". Ok, now I have placed the burden of proof on you, though from any rational standpoint, it is my job to prove something DOES exist.

It really doesn't matter if you believe me or not, because we're all still going to die, so what's the difference if you agree with me or not? No conversion is required for you to keel over dead sometime between now and your estimated 74 year lifespan (give or take a few years). Believe what you like.

[TenTigers]

didn't even know it existed; what's it called?

btw, check out the USSD thread - I've been "watchlisted" by the jack-booted thugs in their legal department :rolleyes:

um..it's called Mahayana Buddhist Temple !!
yeah, I saw. You read about my little phonecall, right? What dix.
what really amazes me, and it's not just with them, but with any school that is teaching total bullsh1t. I mean, they go to tournaments, they see schools like ours and others doing the real thing. (heck-many times they videotape us and the next year, we see their guys doing our sets) They see youtube. It doesn't really take a genius (heck it doesn't even take a waterhead) to figure out that what they are doing is so far and away from TCMA...and yet...(scratches head..) nope..I just don't get it.

(this conversation is so much cooler than that,"I'm Buddhist and you're not..")

[Syn7]

You said yourself you don't know much about buddhism, I assumed nothing, I took your word for it.

i said that??? when??? quote it... you are basing your assumptions on something that never happened... maybe you interpreted my words that way if you A) didnt pay enough attention, B) already had in your mind what you think im all about, and C) looked at it in a overly subjective context... which brings us back to point B...
i actually said the opposite, and informed you that i had put time into the study... how i act has no bearing on what ive learned about buddhism... now if i said i was a buddhist, then you could, and rightly so, point at me and say "dude you are no buddhist" and you would be right...
but really david, who are you defending here? "micheal" or yourself??? have i insulted you by dissing "micheal" for things that you are guilty of yourself? and thus took my comments to ED as a personal criticism in your own little self absorbed universe???


You express in your comments how you feel and your comments reveal other aspects about your character as well, you know, what with you typing it out and saying it and standing by what you say and such. That defines parts of yoru character, whether you want it to or not.

sure, we learn all sorts of charactor traits from people by how they say what they say... thats how i came to my conclusion that ED is a douchebag...
but you cant infer what i believe philisophically with the limited amount of discussion on the topic... and no amount of profiling on KFM can tell you what i believe in that respect... and i didnt do that with ED... he said he was buddhist, not me... all i said was that his actions were contrary to buddhist philosophy... i would say the same thing to a christian who keeps pointing fingers... i would say, you arent a christian, you just think you are... real christians dont judge, its part of the rules... and christians i understand well, i have many priests on the one side of my fam... at reunions we get all sorts of dirty in our convos, its great stuff...



as for passive aggressive, I'm not, I'm calling you out and saying you are in error. Not passively, and not aggressively. Just pointing it out. If you don't like that, well too bad, don't write such banal quick triggered jerky things. :)

your explanation of how you arent passive aggressive was quite passive aggressive... :rolleyes: it reminds me of what somebody said yesterday... it was along the lines of "the chinese are really good at being insulting and polite at the same time"... that is passive aggressive playbwoy... and thats you... only difference is that ur a whiteboy...

[Syn7]

I just love it when people who do not practice a specific religion think they have enough understanding of it to criticize those who do practice it.



Since you are neither by your own admission, do you not see the narcissism of your attitude? You presume to be critical of religions you clearly do not understand.

Perhaps spend a little more time introspecting into your own imperfections instead of projecting your own unrealistic expectations onto to others and then criticizing them for not living up to your flawed ideals.



Uhhhh, yes they do!



Clearly neither do you!



Aside from the repeating a mysterious sounding Asian platitude of which you clearly have little understanding, how are you any different than these people? There is superficial understanding written in your every post concerning religions!



You don't understand faith! Everything is based upon faith. Your grandfather should have also given you Plato. In the dialogues Socrates attempts to demonstrate that all knowledge is based upon principles that cannot be rationally defined. That is, definitions of any kind are based upon a kind of "faith"!

This is the foolishness of those who criticize the "faith" of others! They do not see that the foundations of their own belief systems are also based upon faith. Which is why it is more profitable for one to introspect into themselves FIRST, before they presume to be critical of what they do not understand in others.;)



And yet you too have made a lot of assumptions of Ed or Mike or David or whoever! All you have done is demonstrate to others how little you understand. Why do you "presume" to understand others and then comment that others are "presuming" about you? You have done nothing but presume from your first post! Perhaps apply the same principles you expect from others towards yourself first!



I would posit you understand little of either



Super advanced level - Recognizing that positive and negative energy are false forms created by mind, there is no distinction drawn between the two, so no transformation from one false form to another false form is necessary, because transformation is merely apparent not actual.

mhm... :rolleyes:

you sure put me in my place...

[Syn7]

Looking back, I apologize to anyone who was offended by my ferocity. :)

you are so ferocious... i unplugged my laptop, yanked the battery and hid in the linen closet after dancing with you...


your war cry sounds more like the meow of a domestic kitten...

[Syn7]

I LOVE Chuang Yen Monastery! My ex and I said our vows there. I also Lion Danced at their opening-the Dalai Lama fed me two lai-sees. I bit his head! LOL
Have you ever been to the Mahayana Temple near Windham? I pass it every time I go skiing, but never stopped in.

thats awesome!!! good stuff man... did you get any face time with him afterwards??? i imagine one could learn alot from even the most superficial of encounters with a man that carries that sort of aura... good stuff man, good stuff... i'd love to pick that guys brain for a while...

[Syn7]

Why would I ty to "convert" anyone? And the whole "prove god doesn't exist" argument is a nasty burden of truth fallacy. That would be as if I said "Prove the great god Daizan doesn't exist". Ok, now I have placed the burden of proof on you, though from any rational standpoint, it is my job to prove something DOES exist.

It really doesn't matter if you believe me or not, because we're all still going to die, so what's the difference if you agree with me or not? No conversion is required for you to keel over dead sometime between now and your estimated 74 year lifespan (give or take a few years). Believe what you like.

here here....!!!


im no atheist, but i dig what you said...

do you think atheism could be considered faith based aswell??? just because they reject theist belief doesnt necessarily mean they dont have faith in their own way... you agree with that???

also it seems to me that alot of people define atheism as agnostic or nonreligious, which ofcourse is innacutrate...

[Scott R. Brown]

mhm... :rolleyes:

you sure put me in my place...

Yeah....so there! :p

[taai gihk yahn]

That would be as if I said "Prove the great god Daizan doesn't exist".
Of course He exists: every thousand years, I test each life system in the universe. I visit it with mysteries: Earthquakes, unpredicted eclipses, strange craters in the wilderness. If these are taken as natural, I judge that system ignorant and harmless; I spare it. But if the hand of Taai Gihk Yahn is recognized in these events, I judge that system dangerous to us. I call upon the great God, Daizan, and for his greater glory - and our mutual pleasure - I destroy it, utterly.
So there...


um..it's called Mahayana Buddhist Temple !!
sorry, but I just don't get the connection... ;)
well, we may be driving up to WIndham this year to ski, so I'll keep an eye out for it...


yeah, I saw. You read about my little phonecall, right? What dix.
yeah, I'm still just on the "watch-list", working my way up to the "call-list"...


what really amazes me, and it's not just with them, but with any school that is teaching total bullsh1t. I mean, they go to tournaments, they see schools like ours and others doing the real thing. (heck-many times they videotape us and the next year, we see their guys doing our sets) They see youtube. It doesn't really take a genius (heck it doesn't even take a waterhead) to figure out that what they are doing is so far and away from TCMA...and yet...(scratches head..) nope..I just don't get it.
yeah, 25 yrs ago it was easy to live in deluded head-i-the-sand ignorance; but now - I mean, I remember u wud hav given ur eyeteeth to b able to see some of the seriously amazing formerly-obscure TCMA stuff that's just all over the web now;


(this conversation is so much cooler than that,"I'm Buddhist and you're not..")
oh no it isn't...

[Drake]

Of course He exists: every thousand years, I test each life system in the universe. I visit it with mysteries: Earthquakes, unpredicted eclipses, strange craters in the wilderness. If these are taken as natural, I judge that system ignorant and harmless; I spare it. But if the hand of Taai Gihk Yahn is recognized in these events, I judge that system dangerous to us. I call upon the great God, Daizan, and for his greater glory - and our mutual pleasure - I destroy it, utterly.
So there...


I honestly thought I was the only person in the universe who watched that movie...

[taai gihk yahn]

I honestly thought I was the only person in the universe who watched that movie...
LOL - it betrays my inner geek...

it is without a doubt one of the best "worst" movies of all time - cheezy plot / dialogue beyond all belief, yet a cast of actually very well respected, "classical" actors (Max VonSydow, Timothy Dalton, Brian Blessed, Topol - c'mon!)

great soundtrack too...

[sanjuro_ronin]

wow bro, i feel sorry for you. do they cut off all contact wit u?

Nope, I was never a JW so I fall in the "family but not apostate" category, LOL !
But them being JW's has compelled me to truly investigate all religions, especially Christianity.
I am a year away from a Bachelors in Theology to go with my Bach of BA and my Bach in Mechanical eng. LOL !

[wenshu]

Interestingly enough, Ricky Gervais recently published a column in the Wall Street Journal on this very topic:


Why don’t I believe in God? No, no no, why do YOU believe in God? Surely the burden of proof is on the believer. You started all this. If I came up to you and said, “Why don’t you believe I can fly?” You’d say, “Why would I?” I’d reply, “Because it’s a matter of faith.” If I then said, “Prove I can’t fly. Prove I can’t fly see, see, you can’t prove it can you?” You’d probably either walk away, call security or throw me out of the window and shout, ‘’F—ing fly then you lunatic.”


http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/12/19/a-holiday-message-from-ricky-gervais-why-im-an-atheist/

[sanjuro_ronin]

Interestingly enough, Ricky Gervais recently published a column in the Wall Street Journal on this very topic:




http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/12/19/a-holiday-message-from-ricky-gervais-why-im-an-atheist/

And interestingly enough, there is a reply, LOL !
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2010/12/atheist-self-humiliation.html

[David Jamieson]

Why do I believe in god.

Given a choice if asked, whether we come from something, or from nothing I am inclined to say "from something".

[wenshu]

And interestingly enough, there is a reply, LOL !
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2010/12/atheist-self-humiliation.html

That was horrible.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That was horrible.

I agree, Ricky should stick to comedy.
:D

[David Jamieson]

I wish people would stop asking celebrities for their opinions on such topics. lol

[wenshu]

I agree, Ricky should stick to comedy.
:D

Nah, he's overrated.

His point about the burden of proof being on the believer as opposed to the non believer was quite pertinent to the discussion a few posts up.

He is, however, a much better writer than that Vox dude. That whole post was muddled garbage.

[taai gihk yahn]

Nah, he's overrated.

His point about the burden of proof being on the believer as opposed to the non believer was quite pertinent to the discussion a few posts up.

He is, however, a much better writer than that Vox dude. That whole post was muddled garbage.

he was very funny in the British "original" version of The Office; otherwise, he's no Rowan Atkinson or Stephen Fry...

but I do agree that "burden of proof" is on the person who posits existence of something / someone that is not readily apparent;

[David Jamieson]

he was very funny in the British "original" version of The Office; otherwise, he's no Rowan Atkinson or Stephen Fry...

but I do agree that "burden of proof" is on the person who posits existence of something / someone that is not readily apparent;

I am not sure I jibe with that.

First, If I believe something, it's really nobody else's business if I do. I don't have to prove it. Nor do I need to tell you what you believe is wrong, or inaccurate or any of that.


The only time an onus is on someone for burden of proof in regards to such a topic is when they are trying to convert you to their idea. Then, yes, I would want proof. I would also be satisfied with myself as an entity being the proof depending on how the argument was framed.

If someone walks into a church and says "There is no god" then the burden of proof is on that person. they are making a statement in a room full of people who would very much like to have such a person prove them wrong in their congregating.

Most of the time, atheists tend to get into arguments they start themselves, usually beginning with a strawman argument for why religion is so bad for the world.

If there is no god, why do atheists even bother? Do they think their way will somehow heal the world of all religions inequities? Now that's something I'd like to see! lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

The whole "burden of proof" doesn't really effect me one way or another, since no Atheist has ever been able to really answer one simple question for me:
What PROOF would be enough for you to believe in God?
And yes, personal revelation would not count since the atheist doesn't hold it to be "evidence" or "proof".

[sanjuro_ronin]

I wish people would stop asking celebrities for their opinions on such topics. lol

Amen, LOL !
;)


I do recommend Vox Day's book " the irrational atheist", it is a informative book that dispells many of the arguments of Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and Dennet ( even Onfray too) and does it without theology and only using stats and historical verifiable facts.
He is a bit "verbose" but in terms of statistical information it is quite interesting.

[taai gihk yahn]

I am not sure I jibe with that.

First, If I believe something, it's really nobody else's business if I do. I don't have to prove it. Nor do I need to tell you what you believe is wrong, or inaccurate or any of that.

The only time an onus is on someone for burden of proof in regards to such a topic is when they are trying to convert you to their idea. Then, yes, I would want proof. I would also be satisfied with myself as an entity being the proof depending on how the argument was framed.

If someone walks into a church and says "There is no god" then the burden of proof is on that person. they are making a statement in a room full of people who would very much like to have such a person prove them wrong in their congregating.

Most of the time, atheists tend to get into arguments they start themselves, usually beginning with a strawman argument for why religion is so bad for the world.

If there is no god, why do atheists even bother? Do they think their way will somehow heal the world of all religions inequities? Now that's something I'd like to see! lol
well, to me, it is blatantly obvious why there is no such thing as "god", and I also have a very clear sense for myself as to the reasons why people do continue to have that belief; however, I don't go around actively trying to convince anyone that they should have the same perspective as I do if they do not, (and am not trying to do so here, just explaining my thot process), because I really don't care what people want to believe or why - I am just personally satisfied by my perspective, and that's that; and again, while I respect the right of everyone to believe what they want and not be persecuted for it, it doesn't mean that I have to have any respect for that belief itself - I can think that belief in "god" is an "inferior" way of perceiving things; but it doesn't mean I am going to run around telling people this; as such, I do actually find it odd that atheists would proactively go out and challenge other's beliefs - to me, I am just happy enuf having had the burden of belief fall from my shoulders - what more could I want? of course, if someone tries to impose god-belief on me or my secular social context (e.g. - mandatory prayer in schools, teaching of creationist theology under the heading of science), then I do have a problem with that...

[taai gihk yahn]

The whole "burden of proof" doesn't really effect me one way or another, since no Atheist has ever been able to really answer one simple question for me:
What PROOF would be enough for you to believe in God?
And yes, personal revelation would not count since the atheist doesn't hold it to be "evidence" or "proof".

but see, that's what it does boil down to - "personal revelation" - as such, there is no "proof" of "god" possible, because atheism fundamentally is proscriptive of the possibility of "god", so there is no possibility of "proof" - because, for myself at least, I believe that as the concept of "god" was created by man (for a variety of reasons), there is no possible way of proving the existence of that which never existed in the first place!

so that's why if someone argues "god's" existence, I never ask them for "proof", because I know that there never could be any forthcoming!

this was always the problem with "agnosticism" - one holds out for the possibility of "god", so then one gets into the whole burden of proof thing; atheism goes beyond that - no god, no possibility of proof; end of story;

[lkfmdc]

Chris, deride me for saying this but I do belive in G'd...

However, and this is a huge and essential qualification, I believe in G'd as a concept beyond description, essential beyond our real perception, completely un provable (is that a word?), and abstract, in other words, exactly how the Jews originally described G'd 5000 years ago

If you think of G'd as a guy, in a white robe, moving chess pieces and making stuff happen, I feel sorry for you. You've just demoted G'd to Santa Claus, the easter bunny and the Hanuka zombie

[sanjuro_ronin]

but see, that's what it does boil down to - "personal revelation" - as such, there is no "proof" of "god" possible, because atheism fundamentally is proscriptive of the possibility of "god", so there is no possibility of "proof" - because, for myself at least, I believe that as the concept of "god" was created by man (for a variety of reasons), there is no possible way of proving the existence of that which never existed in the first place!

so that's why if someone argues "god's" existence, I never ask them for "proof", because I know that there never could be any forthcoming!

this was always the problem with "agnosticism" - one holds out for the possibility of "god", so then one gets into the whole burden of proof thing; atheism goes beyond that - no god, no possibility of proof; end of story;

Well done my friend :)
And that is why I don't bother trying to prove God's existence either.
Because it can't be proven by Me or anyone else.

[wenshu]

Amen, LOL !
;)


I do recommend Vox Day's book " the irrational atheist", it is a informative book that dispells many of the arguments of Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and Dennet ( even Onfray too) and does it without theology and only using stats and historical verifiable facts.
He is a bit "verbose" but in terms of statistical information it is quite interesting.

It is somewhat self contradictory at best and outright prevarication at worst that he goes to such lengths to discredit the scientific method while he predicates his entire argument on Statisitcs.

He seems to have carved himself a little polemical niche opposed to the American intellectual atheist movement. (The Hitch, etc.)

I didn't realize that belief in the one true God was so shakeable that it needed such vigorous defense.

It's not as if believers are some oppressed minority.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Chris, deride me for saying this but I do belive in G'd...

However, and this is a huge and essential qualification, I believe in G'd as a concept beyond description, essential beyond our real perception, completely un provable (is that a word?), and abstract, in other words, exactly how the Jews originally described G'd 5000 years ago

If you think of G'd as a guy, in a white robe, moving chess pieces and making stuff happen, I feel sorry for you. You've just demoted G'd to Santa Claus, the easter bunny and the Hanuka zombie

My YHWH is more powerful than your Elohim !!!
:p

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is somewhat self contradictory at best and outright prevarication at worst that he goes to such lengths to discredit the scientific method while he predicates his entire argument on Statisitcs.

He seems to have carved himself a little polemical niche opposed to the American intellectual atheist movement. (The Hitch, etc.)

I didn't realize that belief in the one true God was so shakeable that it needed such vigorous defense.

It's not as if believers are some oppressed minority.

You read the book?

[lkfmdc]

My YHWH is more powerful than your Elohim !!!
:p

yeah, and Jesus had a fake ID that read Emanuele

[sanjuro_ronin]

yeah, and Jesus had a fake ID that read Emanuele

Hey, that's Mr. Immanuel !
And it was the only way they would let a Puerto Rican into Israel !

[lkfmdc]

We have taken this very OT havent' we?

Religion is a lot like advanced quantum physics. Very few people understand anything about it, a select few can discuss it because they have been schooled in it, but only a tiny percentage less than 1% really understand it

[taai gihk yahn]

Chris, deride me for saying this but I do belive in G'd...

However, and this is a huge and essential qualification, I believe in G'd as a concept beyond description, essential beyond our real perception, completely un provable (is that a word?), and abstract, in other words, exactly how the Jews originally described G'd 5000 years ago

If you think of G'd as a guy, in a white robe, moving chess pieces and making stuff happen, I feel sorry for you. You've just demoted G'd to Santa Claus, the easter bunny and the Hanuka zombie
how does one "believe" in something beyond description? how do u know what u r beieving in? belief presuppose some concept of an object onto which that belief can be projected; if it is beyond description (perception, knowledge thereof), then what can be said about it at all? saying that "I believe that there is something 'out there' that is beyond my ability to perceive or know", well, then how do u know that there is anything at all? OTOH, if u don't know for sure, then u hav to admit the possibility that it IS an old guy in a white robe playing chess! of course, it's based on faith; which is irrational (e.g. - emotional, "instinctive"); and because emotion / instinct is inherently volatile and subject to influences based on how we perceive a given event vs. how that event may actually be, then as such, it is highly suspect in terms of basing anything on (obviously there is a good deal of Ch'an doctrine creeping in here);

now, if one believes in some abstract concept, beyond dogma (e.g. - do "x" because "god" wants you to do it or don't do "y" because it makes "god" unhappy), in a sense suffice to say that "god" is a sort of universal consciousness; which is fine, but does not require any further delineation than to say that things are such as they are and act on their own accord - if however, you want to get to the idea of "god" as a distinctive entity, a Prime Mover, etc., then u have to have a set of "rules" by which he plays the game - which is where all the silliness really begins...

[sanjuro_ronin]

We have taken this very OT havent' we?

Religion is a lot like advanced quantum physics. Very few people understand anything about it, a select few can discuss it because they have been schooled in it, but only a tiny percentage less than 1% really understand it

The more I study it, the more you are quite correct !
Yeah, we took it really OT but hey, I can always do this:
http://www.filination.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/image-thumb2.png

[lkfmdc]

Why do you do something? (in the abstract sense I mean)

I do things because they are the "right thing to do"

I don't have to look up some list printed in some book to know which is the right thing to do, or what the right thing is

Why is it the right thing? Because it is. You can't point to some list or book to prove it is the right thing, but it still is

I am one of those weird people who certainly doesn't believ in "inteligent design" but rather says how can you look at nature and evolution and NOT see there is something going on we can not grasp, that is beyond us....

I heard a buddhist once say that physics is the best evidence of the supernatural, it doesn't translate well, can't really be explained, but yeah, that sort of sums it up for me

[lkfmdc]

http://www.filination.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/image-thumb2.png

you wanted evidence of G'd?

[Drake]

Much of what I do is loosely based on social norms taught to me during my upbringing. Unfortunately, some of those concepts of "right and wrong" I had to eventually confront and discredit, as they did not function with my logic. I think killing is necessary. I think if your neighbor's wife has a thing for you and not for your neighbor, maybe she'd be happier elsewhere, and it isn't his right to tell her how to live. I think stealing from those who stole to get where they are, or blatantly took advantage of others, deserve the same.

Nor do I fully believe in "the golden rule" as there are some who are not deserving of being treated as I would treat myself. I don't believe in loving the hateful and arrogant.

There are no universal sets of ethics, contrary to popular belief. What may be an atrocity here is business as usual in Nigeria.

[taai gihk yahn]

Why do you do something? (in the abstract sense I mean)

I do things because they are the "right thing to do"

I don't have to look up some list printed in some book to know which is the right thing to do, or what the right thing is

Why is it the right thing? Because it is. You can't point to some list or book to prove it is the right thing, but it still is

I am one of those weird people who certainly doesn't believ in "inteligent design" but rather says how can you look at nature and evolution and NOT see there is something going on we can not grasp, that is beyond us....

I heard a buddhist once say that physics is the best evidence of the supernatural, it doesn't translate well, can't really be explained, but yeah, that sort of sums it up for me

nah, don't buy it - there is no such thing as the "right" thing either in the abstract or reality - because "right" is conditionally defined - what is right for one is wrong for another (didn't u read ur Chuang Tzu that semester? or where u out in WSP doing a flock of birds dance w the people from ETW? :} ); as such, because it is conditional, it cannot be applied in any generalized sense;

the "best" thing in a given circumstance, at least from a Buddhist perspective, is to minimize if not actually eliminate the law of cause and effect (karma) in a way that minimizes the conditional state of "suffering" (which, according to the Heart Sutra, doesn't actuay exist either);

as far as physics, it is as a discipline a relatively objective delineation of the workings of things such as they r; meaning that it will give the "what" and the "how", but not the "why"; the "why" is what ultimately people r looking for - that's why they get hooked on what is "right", because it gives a sense that they r acting in accordance with the "why"; for me, there is no "why" beyond, "just because"...

[lkfmdc]

Much of what I do is loosely based on social norms taught to me during my upbringing. Unfortunately, some of those concepts of "right and wrong" I had to eventually confront and discredit, as they did not function with my logic. I think killing is necessary. I think if your neighbor's wife has a thing for you and not for your neighbor, maybe she'd be happier elsewhere, and it isn't his right to tell her how to live. I think stealing from those who stole to get where they are, or blatantly took advantage of others, deserve the same.

Nor do I fully believe in "the golden rule" as there are some who are not deserving of being treated as I would treat myself. I don't believe in loving the hateful and arrogant.

There are no universal sets of ethics, contrary to popular belief. What may be an atrocity here is business as usual in Nigeria.

If your neighbor is an a-hole and his wife hates him, she can leave him, she can "cheat" on him, etc etc etc but I am not getting involved

If someone is a cheat, a thief and a liar, they are a bad person, but stealing from them just makes me the same thing

People kill and enslave in Africa because they have no choice and because the situation dictates it, it still doesn't make it right or "normal"

You will find at their cores that Judaism, Christianity and Islam share the same fundamental concepts and perceptions. YOu will find them all considering "justice" and "right" - extremists and idiots aside

The problem with Buddhism is it's perception that this is all samsara anyway, but you'd be hard pressed to find a nasty holy Buddhist still regardless

[Scott R. Brown]

The reason it is not possible to prove to another the existence of God is because God may only be demonstrated through direct experience.

It is like trying to prove to someone what an orange tastes like. You cannot do it. They have to taste one for themselves. The description of what an orange tastes like is not proof of what it tastes like, it is merely a description of a direct experience.

If you tell me you are happy, or sad, or angry, and I say to you, "Prove it!", you cannot do so. No matter what you say to describe it to me, it does not PROVE to me you feel the way you do. In fact, the only way I may come close to perhaps believing you is if your description conforms, in some way, with my own experience of what I call, happy, sad or angry!

At best all another can do is point another to a direct experience of whatever it is that some call God!

:p to you all and your little dogs too!

[lkfmdc]

nah, don't buy it - there is no such thing as the "right" thing either in the abstract or reality -



nah, you're wrong, you can over intellectualize things (and Buddhism gives you the tools, but a good Buddhist will still tell you that you are over intellectualizing!) but there is truth and it is consistent even if it is elusive

There is NEITHER abstract nor reality, they are conditional constructs precisely to further intellectual rationalization

[wenshu]

You read the book?

I have not. Never heard of him until today.

My point was in reference to the polemic on his blog.


TGY:

how does one "believe" in something beyond description? how do u know what u r beieving in? belief presuppose some concept of an object onto which that belief can be projected; if it is beyond description (perception, knowledge thereof), then what can be said about it at all? saying that "I believe that there is something 'out there' that is beyond my ability to perceive or know",

Take it easy there Kant.

[Scott R. Brown]

nah, you're wrong, you can over intellectualize things (and Buddhism gives you the tools, but a good Buddhist will still tell you that you are over intellectualizing!) but there is truth and it is consistent even if it is elusive

There is NEITHER abstract nor reality, they are conditional constructs precisely to further intellectual rationalization

There is truth and falsehood, but they are conditionally based. Inherently, there is neither true or false, but knowing that does not put food on your table, keep you dry when it is raining, or protect your family!

[wenshu]

nah, you're wrong, you can over intellectualize things (and Buddhism gives you the tools, but a good Buddhist will still tell you that you are over intellectualizing!) but there is truth and it is consistent even if it is elusive

There is NEITHER abstract nor reality, they are conditional constructs precisely to further intellectual rationalization

All Cretans are liars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox

Truth is still just a value judgement.

[taai gihk yahn]

If your neighbor is an a-hole and his wife hates him, she can leave him, she can "cheat" on him, etc etc etc but I am not getting involved

If someone is a cheat, a thief and a liar, they are a bad person, but stealing from them just makes me the same thing

People kill and enslave in Africa because they have no choice and because the situation dictates it, it still doesn't make it right or "normal"

You will find at their cores that Judaism, Christianity and Islam share the same fundamental concepts and perceptions. YOu will find them all considering "justice" and "right" - extremists and idiots aside
no, it's all situational; what it boils down to is preference - in most cases, people would prefer to live a certain way, to not have certain things happen to them; given a choice, most people would prefer to live and to live under a certain degree of relative comfort; all morals, ethics, etc. r simply conventions that allow lots of people to live together relatively peaceably so that resources can be more efficiently produced, distributed and enjoyed; so when u r in a system where those resources r not available as readily or at all, the conventions break down and u hav people operating in a "bad" way because they either can do that or have no access to resources at all; of course, some people choose to still be "good" for any number of reasons, but it's because doing so ultimately reinforces thei ego-sense of themselves, which for some people IS more important, preservation of the mind's perception of self, than of their physical integrity; and of course, religion finds a firm foothold here, bec. of its promises of after-life rewards...


The problem with Buddhism is it's perception that this is all samsara anyway, but you'd be hard pressed to find a nasty holy Buddhist still regardless
well, it's dealing with the "difficulty" of working in both the absolute and the relative at the same time: the absolute is "emptiness", but the relative, the "here and now", "exists" such as it does, so Buddhists figure that in context of the relative, they will act towards others in a way that speaks to that preference I mentioned earlier - in other words, the idea is to minimize karma, which is relative as well, in order to minimize suffereing (also relative); it's like"doing the best w what we got rite now"; but there were plenty of Ch'an Buddhists who were rather disagreeable types, one teacher (forget his name) going so far as to break a student's leg in order to help him become "awakened"'...

[lkfmdc]

You can not prove a negative - it's an established principle - but the non-act which you can not prove still exists.....

[lkfmdc]

You could very well be set up in a situation where you would have the ability to kill a complete stranger, and "get away with it" in the sense of real world consequences - but would you do it? and would there really be no consequences?

[taai gihk yahn]

TGY: Take it easy there Kant.
hey, don't make me apply categorical imperative when someone comes looking for you...


nah, you're wrong, you can over intellectualize things (and Buddhism gives you the tools, but a good Buddhist will still tell you that you are over intellectualizing!) but there is truth and it is consistent even if it is elusive
well I think that it's not about over / under intellectualizing - it's about seeing things as they r without layers of precondition put on top of them; again, going to the Heart Sutra, truth / untruth r conditional, having no actual basis; and


There is NEITHER abstract nor reality, they are conditional constructs precisely to further intellectual rationalization
not quite - the constructs r the creation of the mind to propagate it's neurotic obsession w affirming itself as something separate distinct, and "real" (according to Ch'an practice); if u read Krishnamurti, he esentially poses the same thing - that one must simply look clearly at a situation to discern it's suchness (he calls this "choiceless awareness");

[lkfmdc]

There is a reason you don't walk into the neighbor's backyard and kill his small child. The discussion of how conclude and agree on this determination is long and varied, yet we all come to the same conclusion, and label those who can't sociopaths.... a bit gruesome but simplistic enough to highlight the point

[taai gihk yahn]

You could very well be set up in a situation where you would have the ability to kill a complete stranger, and "get away with it" in the sense of real world consequences - but would you do it? and would there really be no consequences?
in the abstract, w no reason for doing so, I would not, personally, because I would, via mind, extrapolate (or even speculate :eek:) onto the potential consequences, such as the potential impact on that person's family; I would then empathize w that as if it were my family loosing me, and as such would refrain; however, that is now setting up a projected context, in the absence of a real one; of course, if that guy was acting towards me a positive sense, I wouldn't need that projection to empathize; but if he was about to kill me, I would of course go the other way; of course, someone in the abstract may NOT empathize, may decide that their own pleasure of killing the guy just to watch him die was more pressing than projecting onto the impact his loss might have; someone may also project that this guy might be a serial killer, so that killing him was a valid pre-emptive measure...

[taai gihk yahn]

BTW, this sort of pseudo-intellectual psycho-babble is EXACTLY the sort of thing that we have to deal with here in NY, so I guess that this thread is now back on topic!

[wenshu]

hey, don't make me apply categorical imperative when someone comes looking for you...


There's an opening on the USSD legal team's watchlist?

[lkfmdc]

BTW, this sort of pseudo-intellectual psycho-babble is EXACTLY the sort of thing that we have to deal with here in NY, so I guess that this thread is now back on topic!

ok, then we're done here :p

[taai gihk yahn]

There's an opening on the USSD legal team's watchlist?
LOL, that wud be some sort of perfect irony;


ok, then we're done here :p
indeed we r, my good friend, indeed we r :) <clinking of beer bottles all around>

[Lucas]

in the abstract, w no reason for doing so, I would not, personally, because I would, via mind, extrapolate (or even speculate :eek:) onto the potential consequences, such as the potential impact on that person's family; I would then empathize w that as if it were my family loosing me, and as such would refrain; however, that is now setting up a projected context, in the absence of a real one; of course, if that guy was acting towards me a positive sense, I wouldn't need that projection to empathize; but if he was about to kill me, I would of course go the other way; of course, someone in the abstract may NOT empathize, may decide that their own pleasure of killing the guy just to watch him die was more pressing than projecting onto the impact his loss might have; someone may also project that this guy might be a serial killer, so that killing him was a valid pre-emptive measure...

PULL THE ****ING TRIGGER ALREADY!!!! ;):p

[wenshu]

LOL, that wud be some sort of perfect irony;


Yeah, ha ha ha, wait. . .what?

I resembl- I mean resent that remark.

[taai gihk yahn]

PULL THE ****ING TRIGGER ALREADY!!!! ;):p

well hold still so I can get a good shot then!

[Lucas]

well hold still so I can get a good shot then!

Ya, and dont chip my **** teeth this time....

[lkfmdc]

do you ever wonder what Gene thinks as he reads these sorts of threads?

[taai gihk yahn]

do you ever wonder what Gene thinks as he reads these sorts of threads?

http://sleekupload.com/uploads_jpg/20/facepalm_4.jpg

[lkfmdc]

His superiors ask him "so what's going on today on our forum"

Gene: "Well, they are deconstructing the meaning of truth and right and wrong and arguing about the existance of G'd"

His superiors say "is there an opportunity to insert a link to one of our products in that thread?"

Gene - "I am on it right now!"

[Lucas]

and then after that he logs onto his bawang alter ego account...

:D


if that were true it would surely be the coupe de grace

[lkfmdc]

and then after that he logs onto his bawang alter ego account...

:D


if that were true it would surely be the coupe de grace

come on, everyone knows Gene's alter ego account is LKFMDC

[taai gihk yahn]

come on, everyone knows Gene's alter ego account is LKFMDC

no I'm not...

[lkfmdc]

no I'm not...

I know you are, but what am I?

[GeneChing]

What a clown show! That's what I think.

Sometimes, it saddens me, because it often exemplifies the exact sort of martial myopia and ego-driven negativity that bars the martial arts from making much significant progress in America. We are our own worst enemies.

Other times, it amuses me, because many of our veteran members have some fine forum fu, and we all love to watch a good drubbing now and again.

Unfortunately, I don't have product to sling that would fit this just right. But when you just don't know what to get, there's always these (http://www.martialartsmart.com/gift-certificates.html). :cool:

[lkfmdc]

meh, this one wasn't so negative, it was just stupid, stupid never killed anyone, well, except for that kid back in.... but according to Taai Gihk Yahn, that wasn't "bad", the kid's death was just "situational"

But I've said too much

[Scott R. Brown]

Would two PLEASE get a room already!!!!:mad:

[David Jamieson]

Santa Gi's, Candy Cane Chuks, festivus poles... You're missing a niche here I think...

[GeneChing]

Halloween sales were okay, in part thanks to our NinjaStar campaign (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1068390). We don't attribute that so much to ninja gear (http://www.martialartsmart.com/ninja-styles.html) sales, but more so to the viral eyeballs it attracts, which are eventually drawn to buy costumes and such. So if any of you have been wondering, no, it's not just about fulfilling any personal ninjette fetishes of mine. It's all about viral eyeballs. Ninjas rock for that. Our Black Friday/Cyber Monday web campaigns have also been successful this year. So far, sales have been decent, not up to their former glory before the economy tanked, but much stronger than what we've experienced since the economy tanked. That's been very promising. So thanks to all of you who shopped at MartialArtsMart.com this year. The magazine and this precious forum will live for a little while longer, thanks to your ongoing support!

[David Jamieson]

Ta Mo Candy Canes.

There you go for next year!

[Syn7]

ROTFLMAO !!!
And I say this as someone that has a father, mother and older sister that are JW's.
:eek:

im actually a part of the jehovahs witness protection program.... sshhhh :rolleyes: dont tell anyone!!!

[Syn7]

he was very funny in the British "original" version of The Office; otherwise, he's no Rowan Atkinson or Stephen Fry...

but I do agree that "burden of proof" is on the person who posits existence of something / someone that is not readily apparent;

word... ofcourse nobody has to justify any of their beliefs... i mean, thats your call... but if one does want to enter into debate about it, its on them to make their case, not on anyone else to prove otherwise...

ofcourse it does go both ways sometimes... usually i put the burden on the instigator/aggressor... but in a rational debate between two agreeable parties, the burden lies with the one who claims something does exist as opposed to proving something doesnt exists... it could be argued that in many cases its not possible to prove something does not exist, esspecially when speaking in a more general all encompassing context...

[Syn7]

how does one "believe" in something beyond description? how do u know what u r beieving in? belief presuppose some concept of an object onto which that belief can be projected; if it is beyond description (perception, knowledge thereof), then what can be said about it at all? saying that "I believe that there is something 'out there' that is beyond my ability to perceive or know", well, then how do u know that there is anything at all? OTOH, if u don't know for sure, then u hav to admit the possibility that it IS an old guy in a white robe playing chess! of course, it's based on faith; which is irrational (e.g. - emotional, "instinctive"); and because emotion / instinct is inherently volatile and subject to influences based on how we perceive a given event vs. how that event may actually be, then as such, it is highly suspect in terms of basing anything on (obviously there is a good deal of Ch'an doctrine creeping in here);

DUDE.... well said... i read it twice ;) one could argue thats an agnostic point of view...



its really hard to put something in words when you try your best to not put any sort of finite constructs on your perception... ofcourse we always will have those constructs, at best we can peel them back a bit... but the more successful you are at doing this, the harder it will be to put it in any sort of words... it becomes a process that is beyond the limits of language...

[David Jamieson]

It is self evident in my opinion that there is much more to our universe than what we know.

The possibilities are even beyond our understanding.

Is it wrong to have a system of morality based on a belief even if it's made up and especially if it is about doing no harm to others?

I don't think so and if a belief in a god is a mechanism that serves that construct, so be it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have not. Never heard of him until today.

It is an interesting read.

[EarthDragon]

LOL Kat williams was right, you know when your good by the amount of haters you have.... LOL the better you are at somethign the more haters you will collect cuz they cant do what you do....

sny7 just recieved his hater wings.. LOl He called me a flower dancer and a fake buddhist..... Merry X mas

Sny7
please admit to the board who you are, where you train and for how long....... I will get the popcorn

next he will be call me an anti-dentite the love never stops on KFO

[TenTigers]

next he will be call me an anti-dentite the love never stops on KFO
what is that, someone who doesn't floss...?

[MasterKiller]

http://i.imgur.com/P68fG.jpg

[MasterKiller]

http://i.imgur.com/PUh6s.jpg

[MasterKiller]

http://i.imgur.com/ziFEP.jpg

[MasterKiller]

http://i.imgur.com/O1Fk5.jpg

[MasterKiller]

http://i.imgur.com/r9okC.jpg

[MasterKiller]

http://i.imgur.com/yM6YZ.jpg

[MasterKiller]

http://i.imgur.com/vFxVi.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

Writer of Genesis: So, YHWH, how did we get here?
God: Well...billions of years ago I started the process of...* see blank look on face*...Yes?
WOG: What are billions?
God: Hmm...a long time ago there was nothing and I caused the universe to come into being, energy flowed through the universe, setting in motion...*sees blank look*...yes?
WOG: What's a "universe"?
God: *facepalm*
God: Ok, lets try this one...

[MasterKiller]

Writer of Genesis: So, YHWH, how did we get here?
God: Well...billions of years ago I started the process of...* see blank look on face*...Yes?
WOG: What are billions?
God: Hmm...a long time ago there was nothing and I caused the universe to come into being, energy flowed through the universe, setting in motion...*sees blank look*...yes?
WOG: What's a "universe"?
God: *facepalm*
God: Ok, lets try this one...

Yeah, because having a son who is also you (but was also human) so that he can beg you to save people from you that you then have to kill in order to save those same people was much easier to explain.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah, because having a son who is also you (but was also human) so that he can beg you to save people from you that you then have to kill in order to save those same people was much easier to explain.

So do know that Yeshua is NOT YHWH right? and the trinity doctrine doesn't say that either.
Just a minor FYI :)

[SPJ]

do what you love

love what you do.

apparently, there are more people into fitness and health

than say amateur or professional fighting.

---

[Syn7]

LOL Kat williams was right, you know when your good by the amount of haters you have.... LOL the better you are at somethign the more haters you will collect cuz they cant do what you do....

sny7 just recieved his hater wings.. LOl He called me a flower dancer and a fake buddhist..... Merry X mas

Sny7
please admit to the board who you are, where you train and for how long....... I will get the popcorn

next he will be call me an anti-dentite the love never stops on KFO

lol... you wanna fight me now?

weak mind kiiid...


stop PMing me... geek...


kisses...

[Syn7]

It is self evident in my opinion that there is much more to our universe than what we know.

The possibilities are even beyond our understanding.

Is it wrong to have a system of morality based on a belief even if it's made up and especially if it is about doing no harm to others?

I don't think so and if a belief in a god is a mechanism that serves that construct, so be it.

it isnt necessary to believe in something made up to have morals... granted if one has that inner weakness and needs a crutch its better to use it than to not, but its still a weakness... like a broken leg... sure you need the crutch, but it doesnt mean you arent lame...

also, if said belief causes pain to some as well, then its a problem regardless of the good it does... unforunately man has not simply used spirituality as a means of self improvement... has it done more good than harm???

morality is not exclusive to faith or any sort of theological belief...

i especially view creationism as a weakness... a crutch...

[Lucas]

I'm living proof you can be a morally up right individual without having any connection to any religion what so ever.

[Syn7]

I'm living proof you can be a morally up right individual without having any connection to any religion what so ever.

ok but let me play devils advocate for a second... couldnt one argue that being raised in a judeo-christian society, one is taught judeo-christian morals whether they believe in either philosophies or not???

[EarthDragon]

actually Sny7 I want to come to your school and knock your teeth in for talking ****e
However you are to scared and to ashamed to admit who you and where you train so typical of you internet tough guys.

kids like you who hide behind the safety of your fake screen names, are the some of the most pathtic people on the internet.

But hate away cuz your failures in life shine through your attidute towards others.
is that buddhist enough for you?

PS thanks for derailing my thread, please get back on topic. this is not a religous thread

[Syn7]

actually Sny7 I want to come to your school and knock your teeth in for talking ****e
However you are to scared and to ashamed to admit who you and where you train so typical of you internet tough guys.

kids like you who hide behind the safety of your fake screen names, are the some of the most pathtic people on the internet.

But hate away cuz your failures in life shine through your attidute towards others.
is that buddhist enough for you?

PS thanks for derailing my thread, please get back on topic. this is not a religous thread

you wanna hop a plane to vancouver coz i called you a flower dancer? nice... thats very buddhist of you... your response has exceeded all my hopes and expectations...
;)

[David Jamieson]

it isnt necessary to believe in something made up to have morals... granted if one has that inner weakness and needs a crutch its better to use it than to not, but its still a weakness... like a broken leg... sure you need the crutch, but it doesnt mean you arent lame...

also, if said belief causes pain to some as well, then its a problem regardless of the good it does... unforunately man has not simply used spirituality as a means of self improvement... has it done more good than harm???

morality is not exclusive to faith or any sort of theological belief...

i especially view creationism as a weakness... a crutch...

well, you have to believe there is such a thing as morality first I suppose. And what would you ascribe that condition to? Are we not taught morality?

Reading Lord of the Flies pretty much shows that we aren't born with morality as you or I would know it that has further morphed into rule of law and the mind guiding society.

That same rule of law was born out of so called divine right of kings, which was derived from a belief.

Do you think it's fair that many of the best aspects of a rule of law society, grounded in a type of morality that ultimately came from a belief system that was also another type of law should be usurped by a new belief that disallows the origins of itself?

[EarthDragon]

actually I go to whistler every year, a dear friend of mine Michael Kubenk AKA DJ Czech started a breaks night there at soul Kitchen back in the early 90's, and we stay at his house and ski and snowboard, so yes I am very familer with western canada.

so where is the school you train at ? whats your real name? come on lets have it I will be heading there early 2011 so put up or shut up. this shoudl teach you to mind your mannors and dont write checks with your mouth that your arse cant cash.

[Drake]

I thought threatening people was a bannable offense here?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I thought threatening people was a bannable offense here?

It is.
:rolleyes:

[Lucas]

ok but let me play devils advocate for a second... couldnt one argue that being raised in a judeo-christian society, one is taught judeo-christian morals whether they believe in either philosophies or not???

No. :p


Seriously though. Yes, one could definately argue that. I believe we are a sum total of our experiences and influences combined with our own 'personal morality system' (which is developed along side our experiences and influences but at a certain point is concreted in our psyche). People born into the same situation as me can also end up being serial killers, some with an even greater influence of said religions may end up on the far extreme end morality scale, i reside somewhere in the middle i think, im not a saint. I also think that there are so many factors involved, its not really possible to pin point exactly what differentiates me from a 'morally evil' individual when we are raised in similar situations with similar influences. I dont believe in the devil.

[wenshu]

so where is the school you train at ? whats your real name? come on lets have it I will be heading there early 2011 so put up or shut up. this shoudl teach you to mind your mannors and dont write checks with your mouth that your arse cant cash.

http://imgur.com/K48aJl.jpg

[goju]

http://hostingbytes.us/images/2/5425567.jpg

[Syn7]

well, you have to believe there is such a thing as morality first I suppose. And what would you ascribe that condition to? Are we not taught morality?

Reading Lord of the Flies pretty much shows that we aren't born with morality as you or I would know it that has further morphed into rule of law and the mind guiding society.

That same rule of law was born out of so called divine right of kings, which was derived from a belief.

Do you think it's fair that many of the best aspects of a rule of law society, grounded in a type of morality that ultimately came from a belief system that was also another type of law should be usurped by a new belief that disallows the origins of itself?

yeah... i guess when you really get down to it, we take leaps of faith all the time... like having the belief that when you leave your house, kiss your woman goodbye, that you will see her again and sleep at home later... if you believed you were gonna die, im sure you would act differently... i guess it depends on how you define the word...

i dont have a problem with morality, ofcourse... and i dont believe it has to come from a belief in something that is made up... it can just as easilly come from the whole trial and error observation route... harmony around you means a better shot at harmony for you... i dont believe there is such thing as a purely selfless act... so people are always gonna base their morals on a balance of empathy based on familiar emotional situations and how it will affect their own desires and percieved needs... yoy know what i mean? it doesnt have to be inherited... if youre isolated enough you can learn it on your own... my moral values were originally based on judeo christian values that i was taught thru no choice of my own... only later did they change... but not by much really... i mean the basics are all there...

and as far as my distaste for creationists, i dont hold on to that... i'll talk about it here and there but its not something i think about much... its the organizations trying to monopolize religion and the sheeple that empower them that bother me... as far as somebody having personal beliefs that dont infringe on others, its all good, you can dance infront of an alter to a tree god for all i care... and i'll still be your friend aslong as youre good people... you cant go around with a hard on for everyone, your life will suck... pick your battles, right...

[Syn7]

I thought threatening people was a bannable offense here?

its all good... im not gonna complain... honestly, i dont even know much about ED's MA abilities, i just called him a flower dancer because i knew it would bait him... i was just making a point about how people call themselves buddhists and get down with the trappings and front like they follow the path and then turn around and act like this...

you arent very smart ED... you should think with your head... you are too easy...


and you arent acting like a buddhist Micheal!

[Syn7]

No. :p


Seriously though. Yes, one could definately argue that. I believe we are a sum total of our experiences and influences combined with our own 'personal morality system' (which is developed along side our experiences and influences but at a certain point is concreted in our psyche). People born into the same situation as me can also end up being serial killers, some with an even greater influence of said religions may end up on the far extreme end morality scale, i reside somewhere in the middle i think, im not a saint. I also think that there are so many factors involved, its not really possible to pin point exactly what differentiates me from a 'morally evil' individual when we are raised in similar situations with similar influences. I dont believe in the devil.

nah not the middle... im sure youre between the middle and a saint... think about the most horrible sh!t a person could do, and think of who you are... you gotta be closer to righteous if youre a sincerely nice guy... i think daily life, in our part of the world anyways, is alot closer to really great behaviour than it is to the evil side of things... on average... what do you think? you really feel you are in the center, or where you just saying you reside somewheres between the two extremes? which ofcourse is sort of obvious:D on a scale of 1 to 100 where you you feel you stay at???

i think im about an 89...

lol...

yeah right... :rolleyes: i'd have to think about it for a bit... prolly between 60 and the 70's... i have done wrong in my past, and it all adds up even if i am reletively tame now...

[EarthDragon]

sny7
Dude! you called me a jealous douce bag on a public forum.
last week alone you called me a geek, an armchair warrior, told people not to respect me, you said I was a flower dancer and I discgraced Buddhism by my actions, all on a public forum.

A public forum that my students belong to, a public forum that everyone knows I am MA teacher and this is my livelyhood.
A forum where many people respect me , my lineage, and my abilites and my contributions to the kung fu world.... please tell me what have you contributed to it?

Buddhist or not if your opinion is different than mine then just disagree, if you dont like what I say then put me on your ignore list.
However dont call me names, talk smack like a school kid and tell others not to respect me based on your opinion without hearing some baclklash.

If we were face to face do you think for a second you would say these same things with out a confrontation?
I think not, most people are real tough when there sitting at home but dont think for a second I wouldnt get in your a$$ and teach you some respect and a lesson.
If you think im a flower dancer you obviously have no idea who and what your talking about. so lern some respect for your elders and far higher ranks then you have obviously attanined.

sorry board for being out of line but I hate the cowards in this world who think they can get away with belittling people form far away with no recourse.

[Dale Dugas]

Brother,

This has become the reality for these tool bags who belittle people, break their rice bowls, and titter like little girls at the damage they do.

It is a very sad representation of humanity.

Mouthboxing has become the norm.

You really have to look at people who have 1000's of post on this and other forums where all they do is blah blah blah about nothing and show to the world that they do not train as much as they claim.

Sad.

[EarthDragon]

I know dale but since when is is OK to call somebody much less a shifu a doucebag in public and not expect get his teeth knocked in?

Is this interent thing not going to allow us not to be responsible for our actions with no consequence?
back in our day you never bit off more than you could chew or someone would jam it down your throat.

what i dont understand is why his kung fu teacher didnt teach him to respect other shifu's? hell when I meet a teacher new or old I bow out of respect because thats what you do...... are we so far away from that behavior?

[Dale Dugas]

People can say what they want, but would they really call me a douchebag to my face.

Im 6'2" and 280.

That might make you change your mind or not, and then you would be looking up at the world from another angle.

Hiding behind anything and sniping at people is lame, cowardly, and shows that people are not really all they claim to be. If they were they would not hide, and they would not create other accounts to do these things.

I have called all manner of people here and on other boards all manner of names. The big difference is that I post all this under my real name, and I tell any and all if they have an issue with me, they can come find me and see if they cash the checks their mouths have been writing.

That people think it is funny is alarming.

[Dale Dugas]

nah not the middle... im sure youre between the middle and a saint... think about the most horrible sh!t a person could do, and think of who you are... you gotta be closer to righteous if youre a sincerely nice guy... i think daily life, in our part of the world anyways, is alot closer to really great behaviour than it is to the evil side of things... on average... what do you think? you really feel you are in the center, or where you just saying you reside somewheres between the two extremes? which ofcourse is sort of obvious:D on a scale of 1 to 100 where you you feel you stay at???

i think im about an 89...

lol...

yeah right... :rolleyes: i'd have to think about it for a bit... prolly between 60 and the 70's... i have done wrong in my past, and it all adds up even if i am reletively tame now...


would love to see you call your teacher a douchebag to his face when you were upset with him.

everyone knows you would not, as you would be bundled.

Seems you are getting a little too mouthboxy for your own good.

Mouthboxers suck.

[sanjuro_ronin]

ED,
Regardless of how your ego may have been slighted, challenging some "punk" on the internet does your rep far worse than some punk calling you a douche.
It also is not tolerated so an apology is in order.
Be the bigger man.
Dale has the right attitude, someone belittles him he says matter of factly that his door is always open and they are welcome to test their views.
No challenge, just an open invite.
I would suggest you do the same.

[Dale Dugas]

As mentioned, my door is always open.

I teach at:


Nam Pai Academy/Boston Ultimate Fitness
33 Harrison Ave 7th Fl Boston, MA 02111.

My classes are held Sundays from 10AM-12PM.

I invite any and all to come visit to make friends, or to test me with what they know. We have a ring and mats, as well as a very high ceiling and wood floor

All are welcome.

And if you come visit you can see my 15 year old Iron Palm bag with my black hand print on it. :D

I will not be teaching this coming Sunday as well as Jan 2md. Classes will resume on Jan 9th.

[Scott R. Brown]

As mentioned, my door is always open.

I teach at:


Nam Pai Academy/Boston Ultimate Fitness
33 Harrison Ave 7th Fl Boston, MA 02111.

My classes are held Sundays from 10AM-12PM.

I invite any and all to come visit to make friends, or to test me with what they know. We have a ring and mats, as well as a very high ceiling and wood floor

All are welcome.

And if you come visit you can see my 15 year old Iron Palm bag with my black hand print on it. :D

I will not be teaching this coming Sunday as well as Jan 2md. Classes will resume on Jan 9th.

I'll be there the 12th of never, and that's a long long time!

Or, is that a song, I keep forgetting.

Besides, I'm too sexy for my shirt! :D

[EarthDragon]

san juro

ED,
Regardless of how your ego may have been slighted, challenging some "punk" on the internet does your rep far worse than some punk calling you a douche.
It also is not tolerated so an apology is in order.
Be the bigger man.
Dale has the right attitude, someone belittles him he says matter of factly that his door is always open and they are welcome to test their views.
No challenge, just an open invite.
I would suggest you do the same.

you and Dale are totaly right, I should not let this bother me, to be honest its not about ego but more about repsect either for teachers, elders, forum members or just the human race in general that seems the younger generation was not brought up to have.
However I sincerly apologize for my actions. Its apparent where my school as it is in my signature and am I sure the people that walk through my door are there for instuction and not for challenges but all are welcome.

My primal insticnts sometimes do not reflect my qualities as a teacher, but I also grew up in a enviroment where you didnt disprespect someone without being able to back it up, seems the internt has allowed this type of cowardly behaivor to flourish as Dale said would this be said to my face? I think not but then why would it be said form a far?

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all.... go shopping or go train

[Scott R. Brown]

My primal insticnts sometimes do not reflect my qualities as a teacher, but I also grew up in a enviroment where you didnt disprespect someone without being able to back it up, seems the internt has allowed this type of cowardly behaivor to flourish as Dale said would this be said to my face? I think not but then why would it be said form a far?

You can only be disrespected if you cling to a false image of yourself and others. Since all images, ideas of ourselves and others, are artificially constructed YOU and OTHERS are not being disrespected, just an artificial image. As long as you do not cling to the artificial image, there is no disrespect in the face of apparent disrespect. Someone who is disrespecting then needs your compassion, because they are a pitiful little human who is afraid of losing their own artificial image of themselves. They attack others to support their false image.

In others words, you can only be disrespected if you THINK you are disrespected. One of the things I taught my boys was, if someone is disrespecting you, harassing you, you have already won. This is because people do not disrespect those they do not see as a threat. If someone perceives you as a threat, they are afraid of you. Therefore, you are the superior in their eyes and they are attempting to bring you down in order to make themselves feel less threatened, safer, more powerful in their own eyes.

Think of an elephant and an ant. An elephant does not even consider an ant because an ant is meaningless/insignificant in the scheme of an elephant's life. It is completely harmless to an elephant. On the other hand an ant takes an elephant seriously, because one step and you're gone!!

If an ant screams obscenities at an elephant, does the elephant care?

[EarthDragon]

thank you Scott, fantasitc outlook you posted. i will look with differnt eyes form now on. awesome again thank you.............. I live therefore I learn. I listen therefore I share

[Lucas]

i only get mad when 12 year old russian kids kick my ass on xbox live. :P

[Scott R. Brown]

thank you Scott, fantasitc outlook you posted. i will look with differnt eyes form now on. awesome again thank you.............. I live therefore I learn. I listen therefore I share

You are welcome! I am glad I could offer a small insight that was actually helpful to someone!:eek::)

[goju]

but dont think for a second I wouldnt get in your a$$ and teach you some respect .

http://www.blogkindle.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/shocked.jpg

[taai gihk yahn]

dont think for a second I wouldnt get in your a$$ and teach you some respect and a lesson.

http://www.doblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/fletch1653.jpg

[taai gihk yahn]

You are welcome! I am glad I could offer a small insight that was actually helpful to someone!:eek::)

shut up, u little sh1t-rat asz basterd scum-suking weasel-buggering piece of filth wombat sperm (that last one's from bawang)

I mock u from my position of infinite superiority and laugh at ur feeble attempts to turn my omniferisipresentensiance and ur mininsignficantilopyness on end - u fear me and i don't care who doesn't forget it!!!!

die and die again (and NOT because I am being nice to you!)

[goju]

Honestly when you're calling people punks and mouthboxers and implying you would punch their face in person you're being just as much as a keyboard warrior as the the person who insulted you.


Regardless of your willingness to post your name and address you're still thousands of miles away from the person youre arguing with. No ones gonna fly all the way down to meet you so its nothing remotely impressive to drop challenges to people across the country/world :rolleyes: if anything since this round about arguement is continuing you could just as easily ask would you be willing to meet up if the person was near by? I've noticed on here when this is the case the meet ups mysteriously never materialize.

[EarthDragon]

go ju

Regardless of your willingness to post your name and address you're still thousands of miles away from the person youre arguing with. No ones gonna fly all the way down to meet you so its nothing remotely impressive to drop challenges to people across the country/world

actually i ski whistler almost every year, as my life liong friend lives there and a bunch of us get togehter and spend the money his father left him LOL so I do get to his neck of the woods often, however i am sure he would never admit his real name or where he trains but no worries I am over it, plus its Chirstmas good will towards menl and all that happy horse $hit
Plus I got this gift from my sister in law today tell me this is not teh coolest gift


5982

[Syn7]

sny7

If we were face to face do you think for a second you would say these same things with out a confrontation?
I think not, most people are real tough when there sitting at home but dont think for a second I wouldnt get in your a$$ and teach you some respect and a lesson.
If you think im a flower dancer you obviously have no idea who and what your talking about. so lern some respect for your elders and far higher ranks then you have obviously attanined.



you do realise by carrying on like this you are just making my point for me right?


you make a ton of assumptions...

you see thats the difference between you and me... i may run off at the mouth, but i can take it too... im not gonna turn tomato red and get all ****ed off at somebody who at this point could very well be a 16 year old in pakistan... but hey, thats just me...

you can assume im just some ***** if that helps you, its nothing to me... and i did tell you my real name... so you can let go of that anonymous hide behind the internet bullsh!t... ive fought my battles, stood up for mine, did my dirt and did my time... im happy like that, theres nothing you can really do to scare me short of hurting my family, and ofcourse i'd never let you get that far, so to me thats moot... besides, you dont come across as the kind of guy that would tie somebody to a chair and ducktape an iron to their face and plug it in anyways...

im sure youre a nice guy to most people, but i firmly believe that one must follow the labels they apply to themselves or those labels are false... i do not believe in live and let live, i believe confrontation is the greaest motivation for change... im not denying my character flaws, but you are... to yourself mostly, i think...

but if you are looking for some sort of school challenge, or trying to bring my or your drama into my gyms, well, that sh!t just isnt gonna happen... lol, i mean did you really think it would? naw you thought i'd run, didnt ya...!!! but if thats the case then thats even worse, cause you are making physical threats you dont feel you'll ever have to carry out... and that is one of mans greatest follies...


oh and i already told you i dont know about your MA skills, and that i called you a flower dancer to make the buddhist point... i knew you would react the way you reacted... but if i just said that to begin with you would deny it... so i did some show and prove and you were my subject... if anything you should be ****ed off that i manipulated you like this, not that i called you a stupid name that i already told you i didnt mean... this never had anything to do with kung fu or fighting in general... not for me anyways...

[Syn7]

merry christmas by the way

[Syn7]

I know dale but since when is is OK to call somebody much less a shifu a doucebag in public and not expect get his teeth knocked in?

Is this interent thing not going to allow us not to be responsible for our actions with no consequence?
back in our day you never bit off more than you could chew or someone would jam it down your throat.

what i dont understand is why his kung fu teacher didnt teach him to respect other shifu's? hell when I meet a teacher new or old I bow out of respect because thats what you do...... are we so far away from that behavior?

what so youre above criticism??? i beg to differ... wait im confused??? are you a thug or a positive leader of your community???

my sifu would smile at you if you called him names... if you came into his school and did it he'd just cold shoulder you and lock the door... but in any sort of public marketplace, gathering place, forum(net or otherwise) he wouldnt take that bait.... EVER... he's just a very confident happy man... i dont even think he's a great fighter, although his form is beautiful and his instruction is really easy to understand...

i have a few older mma coaches that would prolly get dirty with ya over words... but you argue that you and tcma in general are above that... and this is in no way an attack on tcma... and until ED starting calling for a fight it wasnt even about fighting... it was about professionalism and attitude and i threw in the buddhist thing from a previous convo... alot of people may not follow, but ED does, thats why he's ****ed... and you know im right...



and merry christmas again... 16 minutes away in this corner....:D

alas, no snow...

[EarthDragon]

sny7
is all OK brother, I responded to your PM I hope this clears up any confusion and hope we get along in the furture, I do enjoy reading your posts... well most of them :p
I still dont understand why people like yourself like to what you called "bait others" or whatever it is you do but if its better than video games and you actually find entertainment out of it then I guess it cant be all that bad, so have fun fishing.

[Northwind]

well dam. I missed all the action :( :P
Snowing here - first xmas day of snow in like 100 years here.
Happy Holidays to all! :)

[EarthDragon]

its snowing in Atlanta scott? r u serious.. ya cant have xmas without snow so enjoy it while you can