Eight Step - Twelve Keyword Theory

[mooyingmantis]

Here are the Eight Step Praying Mantis Fist twelve keyword theories that I translated from Master Wei Xiao Tang's book Practical Praying Mantis Fist.

01. 閃 shǎn - evade
02. 轉 zhuǎn - turn
03. 騰 téng - jump
04. 挪 nuó - shift
05. 挨 āi - near
06. 幫 bāng - support
07. 貼 tiē - stick
08. 閉 bì - close
09. 勾 gōu - hook
10. 打 dǎ - strike
11. 擒 qín - capture
12. 拿 ná - hold

Unfortunately, it was just this list and I haven't found an explanation of them yet. Some are similar to keywords from other PM styles, some stand alone.

[mooyingmantis]

In Master Wei Xiao Tang's book Practical Praying Mantis Fist, he lists the eight keywords of Throwing Hand Praying Mantis. Unfortunately, I could only find translations for seven of the words.

Throwing Hand Praying Mantis
摔 手 螳 螂
shuāi shǒu táng láng

01. 黏 nián - cling
02. 粘 zhān - stick
03. 貼 tiē - stick
04. 拿 ná - hold
05. 勾 gōu - hook
06.
07. 採 cǎi - pluck
08. 掛 guà - suspend

[EarthDragon]

thanks for postings this. I love his book however i was disappointed that it is so basic and would love to have a higher level info written by Wei. But its cherrished none the less. I actually have some video of him in my collection

[Tony Puyot]

Richard,

Thanks for sharing your hard work. I agree with a number of my gung fu uncles, Eight Step was the brain child of GM Wei and based on his real life experiences. In my opinion the key differences from other Tang Lang is Footwork as a priority. (first four key words) Powerful strikes and finishing throw. This paradime is consistent with his 12 characters.

The throwing hands formula is consistent with trapping or controlling to work towards the throw.

Earth Dragon,

Happy holidays, I think for a more advanced or in depth look at eight step, study the 25 principles at the back of GM Wei's second book. I was taught these by Master Chang and found them insightful

Respect to all.

[EarthDragon]

Such a shame there is not more footage of Master Wei's movements, Only so much is avaialbe. I would love to have seen him move in the earlier years I could only imagine this sight.

Tony, do you know where a find a copy of the second book? I know it hasnt been translated but I can have Angela Yan do that for me, great to see you back on the boards. thanks in advance.

[mooyingmantis]

Tony,
Thank you for the feedback!

ED,
I purchased both books here: http://www.plumpub.com/sales/chinese/chinbks_trad12PM.htm

I will translate more and post it in this forum when I have a chance.

[mooyingmantis]

In Master Wei Xiao Tang's book Practical Praying Mantis Fist, he lists the twelve keywords of Secret Door Praying Mantis.

Secret Door Praying Mantis
秘 門 螳 螂
mì mén táng láng

01. 提 tí - lift
02. 拿 ná - hold
03. 封 fēng - seal
04. 閉 bì - close
05. 黏 nián - cling
06. 粘 zhān - stick
07. 幫 bāng - support
08. 貼 tiē - stick
09. 來 lái - arrive
10. 叫 jiào - greet
11. 順 shùn - yield
12. 送 sòng - give

These are different than the keywords taught by Master Su Yu Chang.

[EarthDragon]

thanks Guys, tony is this the second book from the website mooying posted? thanks so much fro the help

Lion Books #A210
EIGHT STEP PRAYING MANTIS FIST
by Wei Xiao Tang (Wei Hsiao Tang)

[Tony Puyot]

Yes, that is it. He did three books but the third one is hard to get a hold of as it was not reprinted.

Richard,

As for master Su, it is hard to say what formula he was using because he studied with all the mantis teachers in Taiwan. I see him about two times a year, I will have to ask him what teacher he got it from.

[EarthDragon]

tony, any mantis get togethers coming up? I am still kicking myself for missing the last one.

[mooyingmantis]

Tony,

Here are the keywords that were in a handout that came in a videotape Master Su Yu Chang did on Secret Door Praying Mantis:

Kuo Ngau Hook
Tiao Diu Wicked (mantis hook)
Tsai Cai Strike
Gua Kwa Suspend, Hang
Ti Tai Raise, Lift
Na Na Seize, Capture
Feng Fung Seal, Close Up
Pi Pai Shut
San Chim Adhere
Nien Lin Connect, Link
Bang Pong Assist, Pile
Kao Kaau Lean Against

The above is not my translation, nor transliteration. It is copied exactly as it appears in the handout that came with the tape.

I would appreciate any feedback that you can offer from Master Su.

[EarthDragon]

the translations sound Korean or really bad Canton

[mooyingmantis]

The transliterations are Mandarin, then Cantonese (e.g. kou ngau hook). Though not standard spellings.

[DBAC]

Tony,

Here are the keywords that were in a handout that came in a videotape Master Su Yu Chang did on Secret Door Praying Mantis:

Kuo Ngau Hook
Tiao Diu Wicked (mantis hook)
Tsai Cai Strike
Gua Kwa Suspend, Hang
Ti Tai Raise, Lift
Na Na Seize, Capture
Feng Fung Seal, Close Up
Pi Pai Shut
San Chim Adhere
Nien Lin Connect, Link
Bang Pong Assist, Pile
Kao Kaau Lean Against

The above is not my translation, nor transliteration. It is copied exactly as it appears in the handout that came with the tape.

I would appreciate any feedback that you can offer from Master Su.

"Tsai Cai Strike" - I suspect this is 採 (pluck) since it is more prevalent in other mantis systems. Tsai and Cai are both Mandarin transcriptions, Yale & Pinyin romanizations respectively.

[mooyingmantis]

"Tsai Cai Strike" - I suspect this is 採 (pluck) since it is more prevalent in other mantis systems. Tsai and Cai are both Mandarin transcriptions, Yale & Pinyin romanizations respectively.

Yes, I agree. However, as I said I copied it exactly as it appeared on the handout. :)
You are correct that tsai and cai would both be Mandarin. It would be Choi with the second tone in Cantonese. Thank you for the correction!

[Michael Dasargo]

As I understand it, one of the most significant diff. with gou lou cai in babu is that it is more of a "slip", suppress or "freeze" the elbow, and strike.

Feels a bit like taiji as the second motion of controlling the elbow connects the energy to the opponents root with a "peng" buoyancy. This coupled with the strike (to account for the opponents other hand) emphasizes a forward unbalance to pick or sweep the opponents lead leg.

7 Star, on the other hand, has a more of a backwards emphasis that rides the opponents strike, followed by diving and jousting the bad guys face with your fist.

YouKnowWho also trained both 7 Star and 8 Step in SF and Taiwan. Are these observations consistent with your experience?

Sifu Puyot, any updates on Gou Lou Cai?

M.

[-N-]

followed by diving and jousting the bad guys face with your fist.
Haha... I like your description, Mike :)

[YouKnowWho]

YouKnowWho also trained both 7 Star and 8 Step in SF and Taiwan. Are these observations consistent with your experience?
I did not train 8 step in Taiwan so I'm not qualified to compare this. I do have both of master Wei's books. Your describtion on 7 star is correct. You can use gou lou cai to set up a punch to the face. You can also use it to set up a "front cut" throw if you add your leg move "cut" into it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dutqbmf3xKU

[Michael Dasargo]

wupps! My bad, sorry YKW.

N.

I did say "fist" right? Okay, good. *whew*

mykd

[Tony Puyot]

Mike,

I would agree with you, however this is how we apply it. I believe it to correct as these two systems were taught to me. Keep in mind you can have a one master teach Seven Star like we do Eight step or the other way around.
Much is left to personal interpretation, the question for me is always does it work and can he fight?
On a side note, Master John Chang just called me and went over his new translations of the 12 key words from the oldest known book on mantis. The translation is a completely different perspective and defines mantis well. I will share this as soon as I write it up.

[mooyingmantis]

Mike,

I would agree with you, however this is how we apply it. I believe it to correct as these two systems were taught to me. Keep in mind you can have a one master teach Seven Star like we do Eight step or the other way around.
Much is left to personal interpretation, the question for me is always does it work and can he fight?
On a side note, Master John Chang just called me and went over his new translations of the 12 key words from the oldest known book on mantis. The translation is a completely different perspective and defines mantis well. I will share this as soon as I write it up.

Looking forward to seeing this!

Is it from Luohan Xinggong Duan Da, Cui Shoushan, or Liang Xuexiang's writings?

[Tony Puyot]

The Lo Han Duan Da

[chadkoelling]

Here are the Eight Step Praying Mantis Fist twelve keyword theories that I translated from Master Wei Xiao Tang's book Practical Praying Mantis Fist.

01. 閃 shǎn - evade
02. 轉 zhuǎn - turn
03. 騰 téng - jump
04. 挪 nuó - shift
05. 挨 āi - near
06. 幫 bāng - support
07. 貼 tiē - stick
08. 閉 bì - close
09. 勾 gōu - hook
10. 打 dǎ - strike
11. 擒 qín - capture
12. 拿 ná - hold

Unfortunately, it was just this list and I haven't found an explanation of them yet. Some are similar to keywords from other PM styles, some stand alone.

You could check out the books by my Sigung Raymond Fogg. They should be added to the library of any mantis practitioner. Here is a link: http://stores.lulu.com/sifufogg

[EarthDragon]

the awesome opportunity to cross hands, meet, learn and share with Shifu Fogg
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