Your Favorite Mantis Combo

[mooyingmantis]

In our school we practice fighting combinations ad nauseum. I believe one of the keys to successfully winning a confrontation, whether in the ring or in the street, is combinations. Combinations that have been practiced enough times to do them without conscious effort, of course.

I thought it might be interesting for us to share some of our favorite combinations. Most of mine come directly from the traditional mantis forms of several lineages.

Here is one of my favorite combinations that is a beefed up version of a combo found in Zhai Yao Yi Lu:

1. Stand with the left leg forward.
2. Execute a front snap kick with the right leg to act as a bridge.
3. Drop the right leg forward and throw a right jab, left cross and right hook to the opponent's head.

It is a very simple combination but can still ring the opponent's bell. :)

[EarthDragon]

I absolutly love the simplicity and quickness of side block mantis grab (closign the center line) and then placing my hand on thier forehead and ripping them to the ground. it is the quickest simplist take down i know and works incredably well and its very natsy.

I also love sie block mantis grab (closing center line) right sun punch to thier flotating rib, then when the react or block I slide to the side door and cirlce my arm around the back of the neck and chock out.

2 of the quickest simplist techniqes I know

[YouKnowWho]

This clip shows one combo that I stole from Brendan Lai when I watched him to teach one of his senior students.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7C9PizqjVM

Other combos that I like are:

- right back fist (or palm),
- double hook punches,
- right back fist again,
- triple punches to the head,
- punch to the belly.

- right back fist (or palm),
- right Diao, left back wrist strike,
- right palm strike,
- left Diao and right palm strike again.

[mooyingmantis]

My favorite combo, which served me well in challenge matches in the 70s was:

1. Back palm strike (finger flick) to the opponent's left eye with the left hand.
2. Right inner hook to opponent's left blocking arm, if he was quick enough to block (though most weren't).
3. Left iron palm strike to the right side of the opponent's jaw.

Here I do it slowly with my son, along with a couple other combos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvnhEukYrGI

[Michael Dasargo]

Traps and Counters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk-7UvG93Q4

Basic Combo's and trips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz-qSqK4OK4

lately, I've been really diggin' on baiting the wrist grab with trap overloads, then silk entwining hand with hook step knockdowns.

"It's a TRAP!"

M.

[mooyingmantis]

In your school, do you spend more time on perfecting offensive drills or defensive drills? Why?

Though we train both, we train three times as many offensive drills (taking the fight to the opponent) as defensive drills (responding to an opponent's attack). Even gou lou cai is trained primarily as an offensive method.

My philosophy is that if you practice awareness, you will rarely be surprised by an attack. I also believe in stealing the opponent's initiative in a fight. In other words, we strike first. We are not a "martial arts are defense only" school. If we feel threatened, we attack.

How does your school train?

Btw, I don't believe there are right or wrong answers to these questions, just different philosophies.

[YouKnowWho]

In your school, do you spend more time on perfecting offensive drills or defensive drills? Why?

You will get better reward to train "offensive" drills than to train "defensive" drills. The reason is simple. There are just too many unknown factor involved in defense. Also you don't want to spend all your life time to train something that will only work if your opponent does something to you. For example, if you train the counter for "leg lift" throw, you may find out that in your entire life time, there won't be anybody who would apply the "leg lift" throw on you.

In Wing Chun thread "Where's the TWC side-neutral stance?" I also express my opinion the same way. The WC "square stance" may be good for defense, but since you cannot spring from that stance, the forward stance is better for offense.

In the old time, people would respect those who played offense and lose than those who played defense and won. In the SC system, student won't learn any defense and counter skill in the first 5 years. The reason is to encourage students to atack like a tiger than to defense like a sheep.

[EarthDragon]

In our cardianl points of fighting it is said we should always attack and defend simultaneously since all actions are neither exclusively offensive nor defensive.

However if I were to break it down I would say we only defend once, from their inital attack, after that we become totaly offensive, destroying thier balance and never letting them regain it.

One can only do this if the attacks are relentless and continuess, therefore as YKW said, no time to worry about defending.

[ginosifu]

Richard,

I'm kinda confused about "Defensive" combos. In all the Kung Fu I have learned, there is really no defense other than any initial first side step or block. After this there is only offensive movements geared to smother the opponent and set up grappling or throwing techniques afterwards.

Can you explain defensive? do you mean retreating? or multiple blocking techniques?

Sorry Richard not trying to throw your thread, off just confused.

ginosifu

[Michael Dasargo]

ideally, we'll just learn how to kick ass in perfect stances, structure, power and timing all the time.

The reality is that every dog has his day. Brock Lesnar is a prime example of someone who is used to dishin' out the humble pie, but couldn't recover his defenses or counters after he got hit.

We train from worse case scenario(off balance, compromised, and unprepared) and progress towards optimal performance.

As ED and YKW mentioned, offense is the best defense. However, your ability to destroy someones defenses are limited to your understanding of defense. By excelling at obstructing and inhibiting the enemies ability to attack, you inherently improve your own ability by understanding the pros and cons in defenses.

Ultimately, your strike or throw becomes your defense...when all the cogs are functioning properly.

M.

[iunojupiter]

My favorite combo to lead off with is the press down the attack and follow with backfist to the face with the opposite hand... and then flow into something else depending on what openings are offered up for dessert. ;)

And really, shouldn't your defense lead into offense, and your offense incorporate defense?

Cheers!

[mooyingmantis]

Richard,

I'm kinda confused about "Defensive" combos. In all the Kung Fu I have learned, there is really no defense other than any initial first side step or block. After this there is only offensive movements geared to smother the opponent and set up grappling or throwing techniques afterwards.

Can you explain defensive? do you mean retreating? or multiple blocking techniques?

Sorry Richard not trying to throw your thread, off just confused.

ginosifu

Good question! So, let me offer an example.

Defensive in my mind means that the opponent makes the initial attack and you respond to it. Most examples I have seen of the gou lou chui combo has gou (hook) as a response to an attacker's punch. That would be an example of a "defensive" combo. Attacker leads, defensive combo follows.

The way I teach the gou lou chui combo is offensive primarily and defensively as a secondary option. Btw, Sun Wu Kung Dances on Clouds should be trained in the same manner in Nu Hou Quan. :)

[YouKnowWho]

Does anybody know how to use the "shadow boxing" method to train TCMA such as the mantis system? IMO, if you use move 1 to set up move 2 (like gou lou chui combo), you are training a combo drill and not shadow boxing.

[ginosifu]

Good question! So, let me offer an example.

Defensive in my mind means that the opponent makes the initial attack and you respond to it. Most examples I have seen of the gou lou chui combo has gou (hook) as a response to an attacker's punch. That would be an example of a "defensive" combo. Attacker leads, defensive combo follows.

The way I teach the gou lou chui combo is offensive primarily and defensively as a secondary option. Btw, Sun Wu Kung Dances on Clouds should be trained in the same manner in Nu Hou Quan. :)

I gotcha now... Initiating = Attacking / Responding = Defensive

At first I thought you meant practicing multiple defensive tactics in the same drill. Example: Retreat, block, duck, side step all in one drill.

Thanks Richard

ginosifu

[mooyingmantis]

Does anybody know how to use the "shadow boxing" method to train TCMA such as the mantis system? IMO, if you use move 1 to set up move 2 (like gou lou chui combo), you are training a combo drill and not shadow boxing.

Just off the top of my head, I would say moves like:
Lead Jab
Single Goose Exits Flock
Splitting Strike
Suspend
Circle Strike
Crushing Strike
done randomly lend themselves well to shadow boxing. These individual mantis strikes need not follow the other in any particular order to be effective.

Playing these moves in front of a mirror with footwork is a great way to build spontaneity I think.

Another thought: does the use of combos in shadow boxing make it any less shadow boxing?

[YouKnowWho]

Another thought: does the use of combos in shadow boxing make it any less shadow boxing?

I don't know, that was my question too. Should you have "plan" in your head when you do shadow boxing? If you have "plan" then shadow boxing is no different from solo combo drill.

Not sure what the proper definition of the "shadow boxing" should be. Should shadow boxing have to make combat sense? Will side kick followed by elbow strike a valid shadow boxing move (after your side kick, your opponent will be too far for your elbow strike)?

[mooyingmantis]

Here is an excellent article on shadowboxing and its purposes:

http://everythingfight.blogspot.com/2009/07/shadowboxing-all-about-it.html

and a video demonstrating beginning shadowboxing principles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUJDKUDI0cY&feature=related

[YouKnowWho]

It doesn't say to use move 1 to set up move 2 - plan.

[mooyingmantis]

From the article:

"If you want to practice a particular technique, say, for example a counterattack, shadowboxing will help the fighter drill his mind and body. He will try to visualize an imaginary attack and shadowbox his counter to that. The fighter will repeatedly use this visualization training until he is comfortable with the movement." (Emphasis mine)

Does a counterattack need to be a single strike? I think the point is visualization, not necessarily limiting oneself to single strikes.

One of the biggest problems I see at martial arts competitions is lack of a plan/strategy in fighting. Single kicks or strikes are thrown repeatedly. No set ups, no combos, no footwork, no action.

[YouKnowWho]

Some prefer to "wait" for an opportunity. Others prefer to "create" an opportunity. If you prefer to "create" your opportunity, you will need "plan". It's called 声東擊西(Sheng Dong Ji Xi) - fake east and attack west.

[mooyingmantis]

Some prefer to "wait" for an opportunity. Others prefer to "create" an opportunity. If you prefer to "create" your opportunity, you will need "plan". It's called 声東擊西(Sheng Dong Ji Xi) - fake east and attack west.

Agreed! Now I see what you were getting at.

[mooyingmantis]

I think the article brings out an important part about shadowboxing in front of a mirror that I have emphasized for decades:

"To analyze the openings and motion: This is done while shadowboxing with mirrors. Usually in the gym, fighters look and study how they tend to execute their punches and kicks. They look for the openings they present in their every attack. They also study the motion of their punches and kicks. With the knowledge they acquire from these, they can fine tune their training and they will know what to expect."

[-N-]

Here's one that I had one of the kids do a few weeks ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LYKw_uhU78

The main point of the exercise was to develop continuous attacking motions in a way that makes sense according to Mantis.

The first 3 attacks are the most useful. Right grab, left palm, right palm, groin kick.

The rest is for the sake of training agility and ability to move continuously.

Detailed theory, application, and body mechanics are not shown in this video, but you get the general idea.

[Michael Dasargo]

Shadowboxing develops continuity, speed, power, agility, quickness, and functional strength endurance.

choreographed sb (forms) embed new movement patterns.

non-choreo improves intuitive movement patterns and identifies deficiencies in intuitive movement.

Shadowboxing does NOT develop:

reflexes
timing
angular and range manipulation
tactile feedback
inertia


...and the list goes on.

M.