Possibly taking up Wing Chun in Arizona [Archive]

Striker

01-10-2011, 08:37 PM

Hello all and thank you for welcoming me aboard.

I am a past student of Ed Parker American Kenpo (EPAK), but haven't studied martial arts for many years and want to get back into training. Where I currently live in the East Valley of AZ, there are no good kenpo schools. So I have decided to shift gears anyway and possibly start training in Wing Chun.

I've been really reading up on WC and I'm fascinated by the style now. It's concepts and theories are mindblowing, especially coming from a karate background. One of the key points of WC that really caught my attention was the lack of the choreographed memorized techniques! WC just seems to flow as to how you want to attack your opponent, which I like. It seems very offensive minded and not just necessarily defensive. I also like there are not a lot of forms, but I do understand you will continuously be perfecting and refining the few forms you do learn.

I have found a school located here:
Hung Fa Yi Arizona (http://www.hfyaz.com)

What I like about the school is it looks to have nice WC training equipment, including wooden dummies. I'd prefer to train at an actual school as opposed to someones home. I have visited a few instructors that either teach in their backyard or garage and that doesn't work for me, plus they seem to lack in proper equipment. Can anyone here vouch for above listed school or give an educated opinion otherwise?

Thank you...

Eric_H

01-10-2011, 10:17 PM

I can vouch for it, but I've been there since 2002, so I'm a little biased ;)

What do you wanna know?

Striker

01-10-2011, 10:28 PM

Hi Eric - Just want to know if the HFY kwoon provides quality instruction in WC. I'm picky in that regard as I consider myself a hardcore MA as I take my training very seriously.

I also noticed on the web site that they use some type of formal ranking system using colored sashes. Having a background in kenpo, I'm used to progressing through the ranks/belts and like the feeling of advancement and or goal setting. When I looked through the picture gallery I did not see any students wearing sashes though.

Eric_H

01-10-2011, 10:39 PM

Striker,

IMO, they do a good job and don't hold back on the material. The first 18 months are scheduled into 6 month blocks, each making up a student level. The very first thing they teach people is call Chuern Kiu Saam Jin (Long Bridge, 3 expressions) and it teaches how HFY practitioners relate to long arm fighting.

Not sure what photos you saw but our students do wear sashes during regular class, not during workshops though.

mjw

01-10-2011, 10:46 PM

If you are close to Augustine Fong in AZ I would check him out....

Striker

01-10-2011, 10:53 PM

If you are close to Augustine Fong in AZ I would check him out....

I know of him, he's in the Tucson area which is way too far from me, but thank you for the referral.

Striker

01-10-2011, 10:57 PM

Eric_H

01-10-2011, 11:17 PM

Striker,

You'd have to fact check my info with the resident Sifu (Mark Jones), but I'm pretty sure that they teach one section of the Siu Nim Tao form with each one of the 6 month blocks. To be honest, you might have trouble fitting it in unless your attendance is good, the first 6 months are pretty packed. Cheurn Kiu has a wooden dummy form and lots of different skill challenges (Punches, takedowns, kicks you have to deal with etc).

You can drop by most any time and join in a beginner class or two, see if its for you or not.

Striker

01-10-2011, 11:22 PM

@Eric H

I take it you're one of the instructors there? Sounds good, I will definitely make a trip down there this week as a matter of fact.

Can you fill me in with a few more details about the first 18 months and how the training is broken down?

Eric_H

01-10-2011, 11:39 PM

Striker,

I used to help out with the wing chun program a lot, and still train regularly with the instructors but haven't actively been teaching Wing Chun at the school (except in a backup capacity) for the last 8 months or so. As you can see in my signature I've been focused on building up a Chinese Fencing club instead.

The three main subjects (assuming I remember right) are:
Level 1: Chuern Kiu Saam Jin
Level 2: Ng Ying Sao (5 shape hands)
Level 3: 4 and 1/2 point Kiu Sao (forearm bridge training)

Generally in all layers you go through four phases:
1. Solo Form/Body Mechanic
2. Fixed Time + Space
3. Reaction
4. Actual Battle/Freeplay

If you'd like to know any more we can move the conversation off thread, and send me a PM. Hope to see you at the school.

Best,

Darris Larsen

01-11-2011, 07:18 AM

What I like about the school is it looks to have nice WC training equipment, including wooden dummies. I'd prefer to train at an actual school as opposed to someones home. I have visited a few instructors that either teach in their backyard or garage and that doesn't work for me, plus they seem to lack in proper equipment.

The best WC teacher I know trains in his backyard.

donbdc

01-11-2011, 07:43 AM

The best WC teacher I know trains in his backyard.

Me too! Some of the best fighters i have ever met have trained out of basements almost dungeon like establishments. But my favorite trains out of a barn!

Don Berry

mjw

01-11-2011, 08:54 AM

^^^^
Mine is a garage sifu who used to have a school many moons ago.......

However if one wants the school environment it is what it is.

KPM

01-11-2011, 12:34 PM

I know of him, he's in the Tucson area which is way too far from me, but thank you for the referral.

Hi Striker!

Joy Chaudhuri is a long-time student of Augustine Fong and teaches in Tempe as well. His website is:

http://www.tempewingchun.com/

I'm not trying to talking you out of the HFY school, just making sure you're aware of all of your options! :) Good luck!

Phil Redmond

01-11-2011, 06:58 PM

Me too! Some of the best fighters i have ever met have trained out of basements almost dungeon like establishments. But my favorite trains out of a barn!

Don Berry
I agree, to many mcdojo/mwkwoon schools have all the trappings but not really good instruction. Many of the best instructors I knew in NY taught in their apartments, in parks, in high school gyms, at the Y, and in basements.

tigershorty

01-11-2011, 08:47 PM

of all the places in AZ that accepts students right now...the only place to go to get real wing chun training (for the time being) is the hung fa yi school.

what i define as real:

physical training that develops actual skill.

knowledgeable trainers that will teach you the system and how to do it, vs one or the other. (most places really do neither here)

the ability to go soft or hard when training (solo drills, sparring as hard as your comfortable, parter drills, etc)

the hung fa yi guys are aware of other types of fighting, so youll get skill challenges from a thai clinch, or an MMA takedown. there's some people who have done yip man wing chun, karate, hung gar and aikido, so theres a lot of different skill challenges to test the wing chun you'll learn.

i think their prices have gone down and are very competitive, now. and guess what, theyre totally cool with you cross training or doing other stuff. some of the backyard sifus here act downright creepy and cultish.

If you're looking to train in a backyard environment, i would look up red flower boxing on facebook.

i would highly avoid anyone else in AZ for the time being until i see someone else step up to the plate. all the other people mentioned in this thread in AZ are pretty p*ss poor.

Striker

01-11-2011, 11:08 PM

Oh yeah, I realize there is good training to be had in backyards and basements, but some of you guys have to realize that here in Arizona in the summer it gets hot, real hot. So training in an outdoor environment would be out of the question for me. When I said I was a hardcore martial artist, it did not encompass training outside in 110 degree temps...lol

For me it is a mindset and my approach to training, the martial aspect. Also, as far as MMA as the other fellow made mention of, I have no desire to train in martial sport or it's applications. It is good for those who wish to pursue that, but it is not for me. My pursuits in martial arts training was never about finding peace and harmony. I was already a self confident person when I started, already in good physical condition. I was already tough but never a bully. For me it was about becoming a better fighter, simple as that, no other aspect.

Also, as I have been reading a lot more threads here regarding WC, I notice there are many factions within it. It appears that there is quite a bit of animosity between the factions? Why is that? I'm getting the feeling that everyone wants to claim their Chun as the best..

When I trained in American Kenpo, there was more of a feeling of a brotherhood between all that trained in it, regardless of who you studied under.

CFT

01-12-2011, 03:24 AM

i would highly avoid anyone else in AZ for the time being until i see someone else step up to the plate. all the other people mentioned in this thread in AZ are pretty p*ss poor.Other than HFY there were only 2 named sifus in this thread. This is a pretty arrogant statement on your part. What do you base your opinion on?

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 08:58 AM

i would highly avoid anyone else in AZ for the time being until i see someone else step up to the plate. all the other people mentioned in this thread in AZ are pretty p*ss poor.

tigershorty,

While I like the HFY school in Tempe, this comment is in poor taste. There are a number of other options around. Joy is in Tempe and is a viable Ip Man alternative. There are at least one or two other garage sifus I know that are viable alternatives as well. If I recall correctly, I think even Savi is at this point a garage sifu there, and he knows as much or more HFY than anyone in that school.

It has much more class just to say what you like about the programs / school and tell people to try out a few places and see what they like.

BTW say hi to Mark J for me. I haven't been up there in a while but should be making a stop in sometime this summer.

Dave

tigershorty

01-12-2011, 09:08 AM

(Savi is very knowledagle in HFY. Also, I'm not talking about anyone who comes from the HFY school as that is the same thing, really. I was figuring he wanted to stay in the Tempe area...and yes, the comment might be biting and to you in poor taste, but sometimes thats necessary. we're all big boys and hopefully we can handle it at times)

and he knows as much or more HFY than anyone in that school.

Dave

this could also be considered in poor taste. fwiw.

augustine fong and joy chauhuri. chaudhuri learns from fong. so in tempe, you'd have to learn from chaudhuri. i have never seen fong teach.

i've talked on the phone with chaudhuri several times a couple years ago and saw a few of his classes.

Go see it for yourself if you dont believe me.

i'm not saying HFY is perfect and magical, but they'll listen to any suggestions and questions you have. that's the benefit of having multiple instructors and not just 1 sifu with a class of blind followers.

Vajramusti

01-12-2011, 09:09 AM

Wow! Dave-

Some thread. Given the apparent flavors-

FWIW- my judgment is that the original inquirer- who I don't know- should take the advice of tigershorty ( who I also don't know- given the anonymous names involved) about where to go.

joy chaudhuri

sanjuro_ronin

01-12-2011, 09:09 AM

the only place to go to get real wing chun

When one already knows what is real, why is one searching for it ??

On a side note, there are very few people I would ever want to learn WC from, if I was ever to go back, but one of those would be Joy.

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 09:45 AM

...and yes, the comment might be biting and to you in poor taste, but sometimes thats necessary. we're all big boys and hopefully we can handle it at times)

IMO this is another thing you need to learn from the example of GM Gee in. He's not on the internet trashing other styles.

All that does is reflect badly on you and on HFY, which GM Gee was nice enough to make public rather than keeping it a small private underground art. Please don't do that to him. He doesn't deserve that.

I would talk to you about this privately, but I don't know your name.

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:01 AM

So to turn this thread back around to original intent, I want to revisit one of Eric's posts, which was:

The three main subjects (assuming I remember right) are:
Level 1: Chuern Kiu Saam Jin
Level 2: Ng Ying Sao (5 shape hands)
Level 3: 4 and 1/2 point Kiu Sao (forearm bridge training)

Generally in all layers you go through four phases:
1. Solo Form/Body Mechanic
2. Fixed Time + Space
3. Reaction
4. Actual Battle/Freeplay

So to give Mark's school some exposure (the HFY school), the value I see in this is that the Cheurn Kiu Saam Jin is training in long bridge exposure. How does that help in WCK?

We see a lot of discussions on here including the recent boxer vs. WC guy thread where one of the challenges is in dealing with someone with a boxer's hands who is just outside your range and has good movement and closes the gap well, getting in and out.

Long bridge training focuses on the handoff between something entering your range at distance - the long bridge, and your core WCK range. Actually training skills in that range and doing so in a fixed to alive drill format (the #1 - #4) is helpful to a core problem with standard WCK.

The 3 levels are a pretty good approach to building fundamental WCK skill, and doing so in a unique flavor of WCK which is HFY. HFY has good structure and control over space, which can shut down a lot of different games.

Mark's school is a good WCK alternative in the entire Phoenix area - has plenty of mat space, dummies at the school for practice (not talking about my bros here), a good kids program too.

t_niehoff

01-12-2011, 10:04 AM

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:09 AM

i speak for myself, not Garrett Gee or HFY.

I didn't say you spoke for HFY or Garrett Gee. I did say what you say reflects on him, and to please consider that.

joy can't have it both ways, tho. ive never seen or heard of a student walking into another school and them instantly telling them other schools are terrible. except when i visited joy.

Well I don't know what happened there between you to so I can't comment.

As far as Joy is concerned, he is an Augustine Fong student of 20+ years, has trained personally with Ho Kam Ming, who was a Yip Man elder student, has trained with a number of other top Yip Man sifus as well. If someone is interested in Yip Man WCK, he's probably one of the most knowledgable in the area who teaches Yip Man WCK. So he is a viable alternative. Those are facts and a subjective statement.

actually, im pretty sure im done with this forum if whistle blowing isn't allowed.
that's one option. I'm sure I've got in flame wars with most people on this forum at one time or another. you can quit or adapt and grow. your choice.

Vajramusti

01-12-2011, 10:11 AM

Sanjuro. KPM and Wayfarin- thanks for your comments.

I do not know or nor recall tigershorty- he is entitled to his opinion.

BTW I do not recruit on chat lists-nor actively try to persuade folks to become my student...a kind of
classic non marketing orientation.

joy chaudhuri

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:11 AM

This so-called "long bridge training" sounds like it is simply reaching for punches with blocks.

There is a "sounds like" opinion. There is also a "feels like" opinion. You have the former. I have the latter. I'll leave it up to whoever is reading to determine which has more substance.

t_niehoff

01-12-2011, 10:15 AM

There is a "sounds like" opinion. There is also a "feels like" opinion. You have the former. I have the latter. I'll leave it up to whoever is reading to determine which has more substance.

Well, does your hand go out away from the body in response to an attack (strike) in an attempt to block/parry?

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:19 AM

If you don't speak for anyone but yourself and you tell it like you see it, then don't let anyone silence you.

I would agree with T here, and am not trying to silence anyone. Even if I am giving them a "lecture".

Listen, my motivation here is I cross-train BJJ, and most of the top people in that world handle themselves with class - they say similar things to me about the teachers around them - "they are a good school and a viable alternative". Then they just do their stuff. As an example there in Tempe, Gustavo Dantas is like that. And at ACS, he has an absolute wrecking crew of a team in BJJ.

I'd actually like to see a whole lot more of that type of thing in WCK. It really promotes a better cross-training culture.

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:20 AM

Well, does your hand go out away from the body in response to an attack (strike) in an attempt to block/parry?

No. That's called "chasing hands".

LoneTiger108

01-12-2011, 10:22 AM

Long bridge training focuses on the handoff between something entering your range at distance - the long bridge, and your core WCK range. Actually training skills in that range and doing so in a fixed to alive drill format (the #1 - #4) is helpful to a core problem with standard WCK.

I wasn't going to post on this thread but then again I wasn't going to post here at all this week! ;) Besides I live in London in the UK so what's this got to do with me?

Well, here it is. Even saying that there is a 'core problem with standard WCK' I find a bit of a problem. What standard exactly? Who even knows what a low, good or high standard of Wing Chun is? What are you using as your measurmement of 'standard'?!

I understand that there may well be very few Wing Chun schools in AZ, but to judge the Worlds WCK on what goes on there is just ridiculous imo. And as for the long/short fist argument, I find it silly.

My advice. Train in a place and with people you feel comfortable. ;)

t_niehoff

01-12-2011, 10:29 AM

Listen, my motivation here is I cross-train BJJ, and most of the top people in that world handle themselves with class - they say similar things to me about the teachers around them - "they are a good school and a viable alternative". Then they just do their stuff. As an example there in Tempe, Gustavo Dantas is like that. And at ACS, he has an absolute wrecking crew of a team in BJJ.

I'd actually like to see a whole lot more of that type of thing in WCK. It really promotes a better cross-training culture.

I've seen the same thing -- and there is a reason that you see this across all the functional martial arts. They are ALL doing it. THAT -- the doing it -- is what earns the mutual respect.

LoneTiger108

01-12-2011, 10:29 AM

... it's just someone being honest about someone else who was acting really shady and dishonest.

if people want that, fine. enjoy. i recommend a healthy, positive environment. maybe i finally understand terrence and why he's so anti-many things.

Really? :confused:

Why do you promote yourself training Gansta / Wing Chun in your profile dude? I wouldn't call that healthy or positive to be fair. And surely there must be more Wing Chun teachers/practitioners in AZ than, wait for it, two?

Listen, my motivation here is I cross-train BJJ, and most of the top people in that world handle themselves with class - they say similar things to me about the teachers around them - "they are a good school and a viable alternative". Then they just do their stuff. As an example there in Tempe, Gustavo Dantas is like that. And at ACS, he has an absolute wrecking crew of a team in BJJ.

I'd actually like to see a whole lot more of that type of thing in WCK. It really promotes a better cross-training culture.

I wish for the same thing but I don't think it will ever happen in the UK. Not in Wing Chun. Even individual families are divided, so what chance has anyone got? There ARE a few groups that like the exchange though, and I lift my hat to these guys. True gentlemen imho.

Most Martial Artists I have met are running a business where just one student leaving breaks the camals back, and so they are very defensive about promoting other schools. Personally, I think if you're not willing to do this then you shouldn't go into teaching in the first place, especially if you want to run a business.

Then again, I train and coach in my back garden just for the fun of it these days and if I feel that a student needs something else I send them away to someone I know.

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:31 AM

Well, here it is. Even saying that there is a 'core problem with standard WCK' I find a bit of a problem. What standard exactly? Who even knows what a low, good or high standard of Wing Chun is? What are you using as your measurmement of 'standard'?!

Sheesh. WCK guys act like a bunch of little old ladies over tea sometimes. OK. It's an over-generalization. However, the entry point is a challenge for short-range fighting systems IMO. I'm not trying to measure standards of WCK.

My advice. Train in a place and with people you feel comfortable. ;)
Best advice on thread. :D

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:35 AM

Why do you promote yourself training Gansta / Wing Chun in your profile dude?

Well, maybe like me, he is a white middle-aged gangsta?

Do you have a problem with that? Do I have to get up all 50 cent on your @$$? :D:D:D

And surely there must be more Wing Chun teachers/practitioners in AZ than, wait for it, two?

You know you'd think there'd be more. There are not a ton.

t_niehoff

01-12-2011, 10:36 AM

Why do you promote yourself training Gansta / Wing Chun in your profile dude?

Gangsta WCK? NOW we're cooking with gas! I'm stealing that one.

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:41 AM

you probably haven't heard the new kanye album. ;)

I have. And yet by far the best eva gangsta song is in the movie "Office Space" where they are smashing that printer. :D

Wayfaring

01-12-2011, 10:42 AM

Yeah? Do you? I'm on board with white, middle-aged Gangsta WCK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRRn9NoZs8s

This thread is going rapidly downhill with little chance of recovery.

Vajramusti

01-12-2011, 10:44 AM

As far as Joy is concerned, he is an Augustine Fong student of 20+ years, has trained personally with Ho Kam Ming, who was a Yip Man elder student, has trained with a number of other top Yip Man sifus as well. If someone is interested in Yip Man WCK, he's probably one of the most knowledgable in the area who teaches Yip Man WCK. So he is a viable alternative. Those are facts and a subjective statement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FWIW : I began wing chun in 1976 in Tucspn actually. I have done other MA and MA sorts before that and other CMA after that as well.

I also do Duckfu and let muddy waters slide off... keeping things clean.

This thread zig zags like most- on the long hand discussion- from one IM related perspective-wing chun has both short hand and long hand motions for different contexts and purposes.

joy chaudhuri

LoneTiger108

01-12-2011, 10:47 AM

Well, maybe like me, he is a white middle-aged gangsta?

Do you have a problem with that? Do I have to get up all 50 cent on your @$$? :D:D:D.

:D:D:D Ah! A fake wannabe middle aged Gansta! I should have known ;)

You call yourself a Gansta in London and you'll rub the wrong people up the wrong way dude! But hey, I understand. I fink. Innit. Blap!

Eric_H

01-12-2011, 01:39 PM

BTW say hi to Mark J for me. I haven't been up there in a while but should be making a stop in sometime this summer.

Dave,

It'll be good to see you again, let us know when you're going to be around.

desertwingchun2

01-12-2011, 03:39 PM

Striker,
I trained at the HF Kwoon in AZ for many years. I consider my Sihing Sifu Mark Jones a good friend and trained many hours with him outside of the school before he became a certified sifu. He has good kung fu in his hands and quite a background in other southern chinese ma systems.

If the school still runs the same you'll find a core group of guys that train at the school but also spend "private" time away honing our skills. My Sihing were always open and welcoming to new students.

I moved away years ago but still have very good memories about training WC in AZ. Living in LA I have had to use my skills a few times and they haven't failed me yet. I definitely attribute that to the time spent away from kwoon. We seemed to get much more physical away from the kwoon.

Anyways thats my $.02

DavidE

JPinAZ

01-14-2011, 12:17 AM

There are some other schools around the East Valley as well:
I know Phil Bradley is around here somewhere, and he's a very nice guy I've met a few times. Always has a smile on his face and a good outlook.
There is a new group training a couple nights a week in a park in Gilbert.
Sonnenberg has a school in Scottsdale and I think Gilbert too (He's a Leung Ting guy, and hope I spelled his name correctly).
There's also a group that started training WC in Ahwatukee.
I always recommend Sifu Mark at the HFY school, he's got a great facility, is a respectable guy (if such thing exists in WCK - haha), is very knowledgable and has a greay program. But then again, that's where I train too, so I'm a bit biased :D
Plenty of WC in close proximity.

And Stirker, my club trains in the park in the evenings, and yeah, I hear ya regarding the 100+ degree evening temps for almost as many days, it does get pretty dam warm! But, it's not that hot where someone can't train if they find some shade, and it surely does test what you're made! Then again, it is a fighting art, not a knitting class! lol
(not to mention getting a chance to work on your tan and see some very nice woman wearing next to nothing jogging by :cool: )

Anyway, good luck in your search and my advice is to check out the ones that you get a good vibe from the teacher and fits what you are looking for!

Jonathan

JPinAZ

01-14-2011, 12:30 AM

Interstingly, I just had a guy come check out my club tonight. Said he had been to joy's club earlier in the week and the first thing out of joy's mouth to him was was 'whatever you do, don't go to that HFY school in tempe, it's *editted*'. I asked the guy if he'd been on the forums (to see if he read what was being said here) and he had no clue about them. Funny, because it sounded very much like what tiger shorty said here.

I was surprised to hear this from 2 different people in the same week, and wouldn't expect someone that's been in the game as long as Joy to be lowering themselves to talk such crap about a neighboring school and a good guy like Sifu Mark, but heck, I've been wrong a few times before! (not to mention I've heard this kind of crap before, but just ignored it as the normal gossip that goes with WC)

CFT

01-14-2011, 03:16 AM

Vajramusti

01-14-2011, 08:28 AM

I've corresponded with Joy off-forum a few times. Even when he has been critical of another practitioner he was a model of tact and diplomacy. I find it *very* hard to believe what has been said about him.

JP - a bit of a coincidence don't you think?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Chee- thanks...

this is apparently sprinklings of an old animus from that group... based on broken telephones,
mis=perceptions and distortions. When people come -they sit watch, ask questions and are asked questions about their background and interests-they tell me whether they want to join or not then or later
before I make a final decision to accept a student or not. I am selective.I don't accept everyone and am not interested in creating a large group. It's not my living and the tuition is low by most MA school standards. I share my art to the best of my ability.

In this particular case, I believe a new student who had been to another school was expressing his opinion to the visitor. Apparently that must have been swept into the image that is portrayed by JP and Tiger shorty.

About views on MA. wing chun etc... of course I have my perspective... but I concentrate on my own teaching.Except for a website I am not in a marketing game.

But gossip has it's own ways.

joy chaudhuri

Sihing73

01-14-2011, 04:41 PM

In answer to those whining about Joys post being left up;

Joy does not in his post put anyone down. He does not attack anyone nor does he call anyone names. He responds to anothers post and states what he believes happened. Whether that is the case or not is not the issue, the point is Joy does not, in his post, attack HFY or any other lineage. He responds in a rational manner without resorting to name calling.

If some of the others could do the same there would be little problem.

Someone came on here and inquired about training in WC. Some of those crying about posts being removed are the very same ones who took an air of superiority as though their way was the only way. One also took great pains to insult and degrade another member of this forum.

As always, anyone wishing to discuss this further is welcome to contact me via PM or email. I may not agree with your view but I will listen.

Oh, if you want to know I did remove at least one of Joys post along with the others because that one was not appropriate in my opinion. Funny, no one complained about that being removed....................

Vajramusti

01-14-2011, 04:49 PM

Hopefully the last from me. I left for the day and came back to a somewhat surprising amount of ad hominem trash. I speak only for myself.

The rough sequence has been on this thread something like this:

1. Someone asked about schools in east valley in Phoenix metro.I did not discourage him from
investigating HFY
2. I did not say here I am.
3. KPM pointed out that among other choices, I was here.
4. I still did not advertise myself.
5.Tiger shorty had some negative things to say about me.
6Wayfarin made some decent comments.(I believe we met once in civil fashion)
6. JP came with another negative post... may be two

7.Chee had a comment
98 Now tiger shorty has another negative post
10. I don't do HFY- I have read their book when it came out .
I have stayed away from HFY threads. Nor do I debate Black flag-
10: I have good friends and acquaintances who have done VT, TWC, SN wc,Gu Lao and I have had a cup pf coffee with a HFY member and have been shown a HFY form by one HFY person.Some years ago 3 students of mine on their own without any discussions with me showed up at Lowenhagen's school and was asked to test Lowenhagen's stance- one did. The HFY students thought that I had sent the 3 students- I had not and would not.
11. Lowenhagen challemged me to a fight-I said in effect show me the money or a worthwhile principle. End of that story.
13. But the personal animus -not on my part- unfortunately shows up- and now on this list and it shouldn't.

Has not this thread run it's course- reasonably speaking?

joy chaudhuri

Sihing73

01-14-2011, 04:49 PM

tigershorty,

I can still read the posts you put up, and could re-post them if I wish. You made some strong comments and attacks against Joy. Easy to read.

Besides, did you not send me a PM telling me you were done with this forum? I believe that was also another of your deleted posts as well?

You are welcome to stay, as long as you don't attack anyone else. There has been too much of that lately and perhaps it is a sign that this board needs more moderation until people learn to play nice together.

The topic is about finding a WC school for someone, not a venue to post your feelings about someone in particular because you do not agree with them. Besides, your post is only your view and is not necessarily right or wrong. Peope percieve things differently and we are all open to making mistakes.