View Full Version : WTF Cairo
Lucas
01-28-2011, 09:41 AM
you guys watching this?
sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2011, 09:43 AM
Well...eventually every populous will turn on a dictatorship.
Lucas
01-28-2011, 09:45 AM
definately, i fully support the peoples protest there. kind of a sticky situation for usa govt. im glad we arent sticking our noses in there.
sanjuro_ronin
01-28-2011, 09:48 AM
This is an internal situation in a soverign land and the US should not intefer at all, it will only make things worse.
Lucas
01-28-2011, 09:55 AM
i agree, watching our news sources here though you can tell the good ol u.s. of a. is practically doing the peepee dance wanting to get involved. i really dislike that about this country.
Lucas
01-28-2011, 10:20 AM
thanks for that breakdown xiao meng
i agree, watching our news sources here though you can tell the good ol u.s. of a. is practically doing the peepee dance wanting to get involved. i really dislike that about this country.
nobody likes that one annoying guy that knows everything and thinks their way is always best... we all know people like that and we're all beyond annoyed by them... the US just happens to be that guy... big strong rich stubborn and far too idealistic with other peoples lives...
quite frankly, im embarassed by my own country and the fact that we couldnt wait to jump on the wagon and get in there...
i know that the way the world is, we cant just let anyone do anything they want anytime, but im all for standing back and letting these nations have their own revolutions... forcing it on anyone just makes a big mess...
Drake
01-28-2011, 10:49 AM
Who said anything about us going to Egypt? We just took an assumption based off of I don't know what, and know it's being discussed as fact?
Who said anything about us going to Egypt? We just took an assumption based off of I don't know what, and know it's being discussed as fact?
if anything it would start as a UN oeacekeeping mission... the problem here is isreal and the palestinian blockade... isreal and the US would love to see a change in egypts leaders... but theres no promise that the next regime would support the blockade and isreal cant have that... unless they already have a plan and this is a part of it... as far as i know they dont have a realistic replacement in mind...
Lucas
01-28-2011, 10:58 AM
i started work before the president in egypt gave his speach, has this been put into text that can be found online somewhere yet that anyone can find? im going on break now i get msnbc on my phone i hope they cover it.
Lucas
01-28-2011, 11:00 AM
oh he still hasnt spoken yet i guess, hes expected to speak pretty soon.
mrs clintons statement pretty much covers where we should stay
Drake
01-28-2011, 11:05 AM
if anything it would start as a UN oeacekeeping mission... the problem here is isreal and the palestinian blockade... isreal and the US would love to see a change in egypts leaders... but theres no promise that the next regime would support the blockade and isreal cant have that... unless they already have a plan and this is a part of it... as far as i know they dont have a realistic replacement in mind...
But WHO said we are doing ANYTHING?
mickey
01-28-2011, 09:26 PM
Greetings,
Things began to get strange when the USA could not appropriately respond to the act of aggression by North Korea towards South Korea. It became blatantly obvious that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq has overextended the USA. The expense of engaging in another war somewhere else is just too great. It is now the right time for the people in these other countries to make their move. Now if the African nations would start to shake off their neocolonial yoke-- oh happy day!!
If I had the money, I would be buying real estate. Because I believe the dollar is going to take a serious hit soon. Any perceived weakness in the USA will definitely affect the value of the dollar.
mickey
well it would be nice to see a legitimate revolution in the mddle east without having outside interference fukcing everything up for thier own agenda... these people deserve the opportunity to create a better life for themselves without other interests getting in there and taking advantage... its rediculous how long this has taken tho, shoulda happened 20 years ago... and this **** fires his gov and thinks thats enough??? he needs to hop a one way flight...
lets just hope that all that military equipment the US paid for isnt turned on their own people...
it looks like it all started with this guy in tunisia that set himself on fire... man i bet this exceeded his wildest dreams... one dictator deposed, another on his way out and we cant forget about yemen... hopefully this catches on like wildfire... yeah alotta people will die, but it will be better for everyone in the end if these people are able to dictate their own distinies... atleast in a political way...
Drake
01-29-2011, 03:01 PM
It started with autocratic rule that eventually became intolerable for the people of Egypt.
Hardwork108
01-29-2011, 06:08 PM
It started with autocratic rule that eventually became intolerable for the people of Egypt.
Egypt should have done what the US and the other Western "democracies" do, which is rule autocratically, while dumbing down their populations into believing that their governments are by the people and for the people.;)
SoCo KungFu
01-29-2011, 07:17 PM
isreal and the US would love to see a change in egypts leaders...
Umm...You are aware that the current (well was current) gov't in Egypt is the one that is in line with US interests right? Its the opposition that "experts" predict will separate itself from US influence.
The middle east isn't a Side A vs Side B. Its not US/Israel vs the world. There's multiple factions, all with their own interests. And they are all in a delicate balancing act of power. Egypt is central to this. Destabilization of Egypt is good for NO ONE (Israel included). Last time I checked we hadn't yet started up the jet engines to head on over. And last time I checked it was actually our president that chastised their gov't on its censorship and the way it handled the protests. As well as warning Mubarak to make good on his promises.
Jump to conclusions much?
SoCo KungFu
01-29-2011, 07:22 PM
Egypt is a beautiful country; artistically, historically, anthropologically. I hate to see it in such a state. Hopefully the people can find the rights they so deserve. Some of the issues they are dealing with, I can't help but think of some of the similarities between their situation and that the US has seen in its short history.
Drake
01-29-2011, 08:50 PM
Egypt is a beautiful country; artistically, historically, anthropologically. I hate to see it in such a state. Hopefully the people can find the rights they so deserve. Some of the issues they are dealing with, I can't help but think of some of the similarities between their situation and that the US has seen in its short history.
This is different, fortunately. These aren't ravenous, uneducated throngs of anger. These are educate, but angry people who want change. They are protecting their museums from looters, and they have set up their own neighborood watch militias. I would rather have them with a government they accept and respect than an autocracy that benefits the US.
Good luck, Egypt.
Hardwork108
01-29-2011, 09:31 PM
Umm...You are aware that the current (well was current) gov't in Egypt is the one that is in line with US interests right?
The former Shah of Iran was also in line with US interests, until it was decided that having a fanatically murderous Islamic regime would would be more in the US's and UK's interest, or more correctly the business/banking cartels that have made these countries their headquarters, interests.
Its the opposition that "experts" predict will separate itself from US influence.
That could have been said about the opposition to the former Shah of Iran, however in reality, Iran's so called move away from US influence was more profitable for US interests than if they had allowed the Shah of Iran to continue to make his country prosperous and to create stability in the region.
The middle east isn't a Side A vs Side B. Its not US/Israel vs the world. There's multiple factions, all with their own interests.
Many of these factions are bought and paid for, hence work for Western Intelligence agencies. Most of their own members may not know it, but that is how the game to destablize whole regions has been played for a long time.
And they are all in a delicate balancing act of power. Egypt is central to this. Destabilization of Egypt is good for NO ONE (Israel included).
That is what was being said by the Western Media while the Shah of Iran was being overthrown by the US and British Intelligence backed "revolution".....
Last time I checked we hadn't yet started up the jet engines to head on over. And last time I checked it was actually our president that chastised their gov't on its censorship and the way it handled the protests. As well as warning Mubarak to make good on his promises.
That parallel's the Western governments' warnings to the Shah about human rights violations. LOL!
This was akin to Hitler and Stalin warning Portugal about human rights violations....LOL!
Jump to conclusions much?
To be honest, none of us can jump to any conclusions until more time passes by and we find out what is really fueling this movement in Egypt.
Umm...You are aware that the current (well was current) gov't in Egypt is the one that is in line with US interests right? Its the opposition that "experts" predict will separate itself from US influence.
The middle east isn't a Side A vs Side B. Its not US/Israel vs the world. There's multiple factions, all with their own interests. And they are all in a delicate balancing act of power. Egypt is central to this. Destabilization of Egypt is good for NO ONE (Israel included). Last time I checked we hadn't yet started up the jet engines to head on over. And last time I checked it was actually our president that chastised their gov't on its censorship and the way it handled the protests. As well as warning Mubarak to make good on his promises.
Jump to conclusions much?
yeah i do understand the us has backed egypt... assumptions much... my point is that this guy has been increasingly intolerable and embarassing to all the western interests that have backed him... its a tricky balance, but nows the time to make the change... we'll see...
This is different, fortunately. These aren't ravenous, uneducated throngs of anger. These are educate, but angry people who want change. They are protecting their museums from looters, and they have set up their own neighborood watch militias. I would rather have them with a government they accept and respect than an autocracy that benefits the US.
Good luck, Egypt.
word...and i think ultimately this will benefit western interests anyways... and its the right executive branch to make that happen... but i dont think anyone expects the US to get directly involved unless they are specifically invited... atleast on the outside...
Hardwork108
01-30-2011, 03:30 PM
Some more clarifications about what is happening in Egypt at the moment:
http://www.infowars.com/mohamed-elbaradei-globalist-pied-piper-of-the-egyptian-revolt/
David Jamieson
01-30-2011, 04:23 PM
Let us all butter churn dance and ecourage the oppressed peoples of egypt.
Go egypt, Go Egypt
you da captain
of ya own ship
huzzah!
Hardwork108
01-30-2011, 04:29 PM
Let us all butter churn dance and ecourage the oppressed peoples of egypt.
Go egypt, Go Egypt
you da captain
of ya own ship
huzzah!
Perhaps we should sing the same for the peoples of Canada? ;)
Perhaps we should sing the same for the peoples of Canada? ;)
:rolleyes:
you sure told him...
Hardwork108
01-30-2011, 05:54 PM
:rolleyes:
you sure told him...
What, all of a sudden Canada is a free country?
wow, fox news is really using this to pump out the anti muslim fear mongering rhettoric... glen beck being at the top of the crazy list... omg the muslims will take over and europe will be done... its september tenth he says... he's such a clown...
What, all of a sudden Canada is a free country?
:rolleyes:
Lucas
02-03-2011, 09:52 AM
wow, fox news is really using this to pump out the anti muslim fear mongering rhettoric... glen beck being at the top of the crazy list... omg the muslims will take over and europe will be done... its september tenth he says... he's such a clown...
are you serious? now i remember why i avoid that garbage. when will people realize thats one step to the side of being a racist bigot.
are you serious? now i remember why i avoid that garbage. when will people realize thats one step to the side of being a racist bigot.
you should look up what beck said recently on utube clips... it'll be there... he's lost it man... he says if mubarak leaves the muslim bros will take over, make war on isreal and work to band the arab world together to eliminate europe... no joke, he really said all that and much much more... its real bad...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEZrO0vmkGQ
heres a young turks episode about beck and his crazyness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_G0Sc0bcPs
he even says that muslims are rioting in the UK... lol, unbelievable... he thinks britain and ireland are gonna get run over by some caliphate???? he is rediculous... straight up fukct@rd...
yall think we'll see a masacre???
i dunno why some are calling this a civil war, its hardly that... i mean, maybe later, but whos got the guns?? right...
hopefully he steps down, a temp is found and the gov is restructured for an election next year... either way, hard times ahead... but thats like best case scenario for the anti's...
BJJ-Blue
02-04-2011, 08:22 PM
So why is Obama getting involved in Egypt's mess and saying Mubarak needs to resign because of the protests? He didn't get involved and say Ahmadinejad needed to resign when the Iranians were protesting. And Mubarak has been a pretty good friend to the US and has been willing to deal with Israel, while Ahmadinejad curses and threatens the US and Israel.
Why one and not the other? :confused:
Hardwork108
02-04-2011, 08:56 PM
So why is Obama getting involved in Egypt's mess and saying Mubarak needs to resign because of the protests? He didn't get involved and say Ahmadinejad needed to resign when the Iranians were protesting. And Mubarak has been a pretty good friend to the US and has been willing to deal with Israel, while Ahmadinejad curses and threatens the US and Israel.
Why one and not the other? :confused:
Obama's attitude towards Mubarak is reminicent of that of Jimmy Carter towards the Shah of Iran, who was a faithful ally of the US and the West in general. Unfortunately, the logic that is preached to us since a young age has nothing to do with geo political realities, most of which are kept secret from us.
This is at least the part of the story of what happened to the Shah of Iran.
http://www.aryamehr.org/eng/carter/wieng/cart.html
Perhaps, you can draw your on conclusions as to why the same is happening to Mubarak....
So why is Obama getting involved in Egypt's mess and saying Mubarak needs to resign because of the protests? He didn't get involved and say Ahmadinejad needed to resign when the Iranians were protesting. And Mubarak has been a pretty good friend to the US and has been willing to deal with Israel, while Ahmadinejad curses and threatens the US and Israel.
Why one and not the other? :confused:
egypt recieves alot of money from the US... i guess they feel they have a say... but hey, they gave iran money too... diff people, diff agendas, diff world political climate... when the shah was originally kicked out and a democracy was set up, it was the US that put the shah back and it was that kind of stuff that created all this hatred from some... they look at all of us as medlers, trouble....
like in the phillipeans back in the day when regan pretty much said "ur done"... and he was...
personally, i think all outside forces should back off and let what happens happen... if they want to be radical jihadists, and they dont, thats their call... not any of ours... but if they want the cash, they gotta play ball...
isreal gets the most from the US and they have no problem sticking their middle finger in uncle sams face if they feel threatened in any way shape or form... sure theyve been persecuted, and its damaged their judgement... they create the animosity against them... back when rome stomped em out, and today... i support people in general, all religions etc... but i do not support isreal the way it is today... not that they cant share, but until they do, i wont like em... but the most of the regular people seem pretty cool... i know a few cats from isreal that i have alot of respect for, and we respectfully disagree on some things... that being one of em...
Hardwork108
02-04-2011, 11:57 PM
egypt recieves alot of money from the US... i guess they feel they have a say... but hey, they gave iran money too... diff people, diff agendas, diff world political climate... when the shah was originally kicked out and a democracy was set up, it was the US that put the shah back and it was that kind of stuff that created all this hatred from some... they look at all of us as medlers, trouble....
The "US" and the "UK" did put the back in power, but they took him out themselves. Thus creating some of the ground work for the "Terrorist Threat" that is leading us into the fullfilment of the NWO agenda.
Of course, the "unfriendly" regime of Iran and its subsequent war with the "former US friendly" regime of Iraq, generated billions of dollars of revenue for Western arms manufacturers that supplied BOTH SIDES!
These companies made even more money when they sold arms to Iran's neighbors that felt threatened by the secretly US/UK backed Islamic regime.
How much of that money did the average American or European citizen see?
All is not what it seems in international politics. Once you accept the profoundness of that statement, then you will realize how hoodwinked the average Joe on the street is!!!
Egypt is the same. Mubarak's time has come, so he will be overthrown by a "people's revolution". If he resists and stays in power, then expect to see the same kind of propaganda that turned the world against the Shah of Iran, Saddam Hussain and Noriega of Panama. Who were all once upon a time, friends with the US and other Western countries and carried out all of their bad deeds with active support and PARTNERSHIP with the "human rights respecting Democracies of the West"....:rolleyes:
BJJ-Blue
02-05-2011, 08:16 AM
The aid to Israel is not a one-way street. First off, they are an ally. Second, they've given us intelligence, upgraded the weapons we sell them and shared some of that technology, and are an important 'testing ground' for our weapons. We are able to see how our equipment functions in actual combat without risking American lives in combat.
And unlike the African nations who we give billions to with no strings attached, Israel does pay for the weapons they receive. You always see liberals calling for an end to aid for Israel, but not a word about cutting off aid to Africa.
The aid to Israel is not a one-way street. First off, they are an ally. Second, they've given us intelligence, upgraded the weapons we sell them and shared some of that technology, and are an important 'testing ground' for our weapons. We are able to see how our equipment functions in actual combat without risking American lives in combat.
.
yeah why not just sit back and watch... why risk american lives when you can sit back and watch it all tested on those ever so powerful and evil palestinians...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JoGwq9k5lw
Hardwork108
02-05-2011, 05:10 PM
More insight into what is happening in Egypt and what is to come next. This link should be specially interesting to the likes of Drake who claim to be intelligence officiers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkMjTfFE67s
.
in 1991 david icke announced on the bbc that he was the son of god...
he always knew he was special, but not until a psychic confirmed his feelings did he go public with his super specialness... :rolleyes:
my mommy always said i was special... maybe i should roll with that...
Hardwork108
02-05-2011, 08:50 PM
in 1991 david icke announced on the bbc that he was the son of god...
he always knew he was special, but not until a psychic confirmed his feelings did he go public with his super specialness... :rolleyes:
my mommy always said i was special... maybe i should roll with that...
Again, you are letting your opinions of the messenger get in the way of you getting the message.
By the way, I actually saw the inteview that you are talking about. Icke implied that everyone is a son of god. If you research him more then you will find out that he does not even believe in the fantasy bible god.
I would suggest that you get your hands on his book called "and let the truth set you free" published in the 1990s, and then see how right he was, now that we have entered the second decade of the 20th century.
Also, I am sure that your mother was right and that you are special, we all are! :)
BJJ-Blue
02-07-2011, 11:44 AM
yeah why not just sit back and watch... why risk american lives when you can sit back and watch it all tested on those ever so powerful and evil palestinians...
Actually during the Cold War it was especially useful. We got to see how our weapons did against Warsaw Pact equipment.
you speak as if you find live testing on human beings is a good and moral thing...
or hey, since theyre gonna die anyways, we may as well learn what we can from it... right???
and if they are gonna fight anyways, we may as well arm both sides and profit from it right???
the diff between the two isnt a big stretch by any imigination...
MasterKiller
02-07-2011, 02:13 PM
The aid to Israel is not a one-way street. First off, they are an ally. Second, they've given us intelligence, upgraded the weapons we sell them and shared some of that technology, and are an important 'testing ground' for our weapons. We are able to see how our equipment functions in actual combat without risking American lives in combat.
And unlike the African nations who we give billions to with no strings attached, Israel does pay for the weapons they receive. You always see liberals calling for an end to aid for Israel, but not a word about cutting off aid to Africa.
LOL at ally. When was the last time we caught England spying on us on our own soil?
Every year Israel receives about $3 billion in American aid, more than any other country.
Aid to Israel, unlike to any other nation, it is disbursed in one lump sum time within a month of the appropriations bill becoming law. Moreover, under the 2007 MOU, up to 26% of the money can be spent within Israel instead of on American arms, an exception afforded to no other aid recipient that has enabled Israel to create a competing arms industry worth up to $9 billion/year.
In August 2007, the Bush Administration agreed to increase U.S. military assistance to Israel by $6 billion over the following decade. Israel is to receive incremental annual increases of $150 mllion, starting at $2.55 billion in FY2009 and reaching $3.15 billion per year for FY2013-2018.
hey now... come on MK... lets not get bogged down in the facts here...
Hardwork108
02-07-2011, 02:30 PM
LOL at ally. When was the last time we caught England spying on us on our own soil?
They don't need to spy on you, as your intelligence agencies were more or less created by the British, and I doubt if there are any secrets that are kept from them.
Every year Israel receives about $3 billion in American aid, more than any other country.
Aid to Israel, unlike to any other nation, it is disbursed in one lump sum time within a month of the appropriations bill becoming law. Moreover, under the 2007 MOU, up to 26% of the money can be spent within Israel instead of on American arms, an exception afforded to no other aid recipient that has enabled Israel to create a competing arms industry worth up to $9 billion/year.
In August 2007, the Bush Administration agreed to increase U.S. military assistance to Israel by $6 billion over the following decade. Israel is to receive incremental annual increases of $150 mllion, starting at $2.55 billion in FY2009 and reaching $3.15 billion per year for FY2013-2018.
It is as simple as this. The banking and corporate dynastis that created Israel also run the US (together with the UK, rest of Europe and most of the world). By the way, the UK is on a higher pecking order of power and importance, than the US. Surprising isn't it?
So, if these elements created Israel, then their stooges have to pay the bills to maintain it.
I hope that things are clearer now.:)
BJJ-Blue
02-07-2011, 02:58 PM
you speak as if you find live testing on human beings is a good and moral thing...
or hey, since theyre gonna die anyways, we may as well learn what we can from it... right???
and if they are gonna fight anyways, we may as well arm both sides and profit from it right???
the diff between the two isnt a big stretch by any imigination...
Are you carzy?
I'm not condoning testing on humans. Let's be rational here. You have people fighting, and they've been fighting for thousands of years, so they aren't gonna stop anytime soon. So we were allied with the Israelis, while the Arab states were usually allied with the Soviet Bloc. They got weapons from the USSR, so we supplied our allies with American weapons. And yes, we did get data on the performance of said weapons. And that benefits you and me, as the weapons being used by the Israelis are the same weapons our military uses to keep you and I safe.
And according to you guys, we didn't profit. According to you guys we GIVE aid to Israel. You don't make profits by giving things like jet fighters away for free.
MasterKiller
02-07-2011, 08:23 PM
Are you carzy?
I'm not condoning testing on humans. Let's be rational here. You have people fighting, and they've been fighting for thousands of years, so they aren't gonna stop anytime soon. So we were allied with the Israelis, while the Arab states were usually allied with the Soviet Bloc. They got weapons from the USSR, so we supplied our allies with American weapons. And yes, we did get data on the performance of said weapons. And that benefits you and me, as the weapons being used by the Israelis are the same weapons our military uses to keep you and I safe.
And according to you guys, we didn't profit. According to you guys we GIVE aid to Israel. You don't make profits by giving things like jet fighters away for free.
LOL at us profiting from Israel. They currently owe us 1 billion just from low interest loans.
Hardwork108
02-07-2011, 08:35 PM
LOL at us profiting from Israel. They currently owe us 1 billion just from low interest loans.
The people who profit from the wars, are as always the private banking cartels, that is their main owners, that run the US and Israel. Whatever loans that are taken up are going to be paid by governments, nor of course, the bankers. As usual, the burden will fall on the citizens of Israel and/or the US, who will pay through more and more taxes.
So, the various "governments" throughout the world create problems, make wars and suffering, where the populations pay with their lives (and limbs), while the bankers sitting on top of the private banking pyramid, that is, those who select and control the governments, and to whom most nations and populations owe money, make all the profit, and gain further control on assets that used to belong to others. I hazzard a guess that many of these guys also own large chunks of the weapons manufacturer's.
Yes, I am going to repeat the facts until the coin drops for some of you.......;)
And according to you guys, we didn't profit. According to you guys we GIVE aid to Israel. You don't make profits by giving things like jet fighters away for free.
WE as in you and me made no profit... but some, like haliburton and other war profiteers, made and are still making an absolute killing... ok maybe thats an inapropriate pun in this case... but if haliburton makes more money in wartime than peace time, what do you think their lobby will propose??? peace talks??? no... fight kill dead MONEY... thats just a fact... and what was the bulk source of all **** cheneys money??? a key player in deciding to go to war had a significant financial interest in going to war... you think maybe that had anything to do with the WMD intel that was so reliable???
Hardwork108
02-08-2011, 02:46 AM
Just going back to the subject matter of this thread and what is happening in Cairo, and how the US and the West turned against a former ally, yet again, who all of a sudden has turned into the big bad bogey man.
Well here are facts that parallel todays happenings, but over thirty years ago, in Iran and the overthrow of the Shah of Iran:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCjOk2t6Ah4&feature=related
If this doesn't open your eyes to the realities of Geo-politics, and the evil that goes with it, then nothing will.....
Obama's attitude towards Mubarak is reminicent of that of Jimmy Carter towards the Shah of Iran, who was a faithful ally of the US
egypt is a democracy, atleast in name, and the nation is an ally... not one single man...
im so annoyed about people b1tching about how obama is selling out an ally... egypt is an ally, not its leader...
if i was a foriegn nation and i was to support the US i would treat all its leaders the same... at first anyways... of course they would also have a part in dictating the relationship... but if there was some crazy struggle for election and the country was split or overwhelmingly for or against one leader or another, I as a seperate nation would wait for the results and congrats the winner and support them with the same treaty i had with the previous leader... so i would support bush then support obama... and if there was some crazy revolution and some serious changes were made in governing, i would support the winners and get on with the treaty... its their biz, im just a biz partner and concerned friend... concerned on how it affects me, that is...:p
and as far as the shah of iran is concerned.... his people ousted him, the US should have left that well alone... iran had a legit revolution and created their own democracy and the US came along and forced the monarchy back onto the people who bled for that revolution... thats the real crime, not that the US left him hanging years later... he's lucky to have had those years at all, since they were stolen...
Hardwork108
02-08-2011, 10:52 PM
I am sorry to keep saying this but you are naive when it comes to geopolitics and the true power structure of the world, and is not just you, but most people, and that is why the world is such a mess. All of you have been programmed from childhood to see the world politics as black and white. Of course, the programmers have also programmed some artificial grey areas in your reality so that you will think of yourself as perceptive and smart.
egypt is a democracy, atleast in name, and the nation is an ally... not one single man...
I disagree. The nation is made up of people. We all know that the US and the Western powers, or more accurately, the forces that run them, don't give a toss about the people of Egypt, as they don't give a **** about their own people, to start with.
What is important for these ruling powers is the riches of Egypt and her strategic location. End of story!
im so annoyed about people b1tching about how obama is selling out an ally
For your information, Obama sold out the American people, long before he sold out Egypt.
... egypt is an ally, not its leader...
For the most part, there are no allies in world politics, except for some mutual interest "frienships" that disappear when the mutual interest is no more. This concept is very true specially when the Western powers are concerned. Have a look at history.
if i was a foriegn nation and i was to support the US i would treat all its leaders the same... at first anyways... of course they would also have a part in dictating the relationship... but if there was some crazy struggle for election and the country was split or overwhelmingly for or against one leader or another, I as a seperate nation would wait for the results and congrats the winner and support them with the same treaty i had with the previous leader... so i would support bush then support obama... and if there was some crazy revolution and some serious changes were made in governing, i would support the winners and get on with the treaty... its their biz, im just a biz partner and concerned friend... concerned on how it affects me, that is...:p
What you and most people miss, is the fact that most of the time the US is actively involved in the political divisions, turmoil and wars, in other countries.
and as far as the shah of iran is concerned.... his people ousted him,
You are WRONG! The Shah of Iran, was ousted by a US/UK Coupdetat!
the US should have left that well alone...
The US could not have left that well alone because the US and the UK were the active architects in his down fall.
The Shah of Iran became too big for his shoes and started wanting more economic indendence from the Anglo America "cartel". Worst of all, at the end of the day, he turned out to be a good dictator. His country's economy was booming; there were health and education programs being carried out to help the poor; there were other programs.
One thing about the US and UK, they do not want good and decent people running countries that they consider their colonies.
iran had a legit revolution and created their own democracy and the US came along and forced the monarchy back onto the people who bled for that revolution... thats the real crime,
You are right about that. The democratically elected leader who was removed from power was a man called Mossadegh.
not that the US left him hanging years later... he's lucky to have had those years at all, since they were stolen...
You are not getting this. He was not left hanging. He was removed from power by a US/UK organized revolution.
Didn't you read and watch any of the literature and documentaries that I posted for you? :mad:
you know, i actually should have quoted blue saying the ally thang coz its his response im interested in...
yours, not so much... and IMHO you are anything but humble...
You are WRONG! The Shah of Iran, was ousted by a US/UK Coupdetat!
You are right about that. The democratically elected leader who was removed from power was a man called Mossadegh.
Dumb@ss, in both instances im talking about the first time... and it was a legit revolution... if you insist on responing, atleast read the words without projecting your own meanings into them...
actually, you know what, never mind... to the left, son... stop polluting threads with the same message over and over... make a thread and talk to yourself all day if you must... you have driven out the rest of the people in this forum... its no coincidence that when you start posting, the off topic forum drops off...
and to everyone else, MY BAD, i sincerely appologize for feeding the retard... i had already forgotten my previous lessons in NetRetard101...
BLUE, your words???
and back to cairo... looks like obama is wffling again... spineless fukcer... the money makers have been in touch, i guess...
and it does come down to money...
not talking to you HW...
Hardwork108
02-09-2011, 03:57 AM
you know, i actually should have quoted blue saying the ally thang coz its his response im interested in...
Hey, I am trying to enlighten you. Take it or leave it.
yours, not so much... and IMHO you are anything but humble...
I am humble, but facts are facts. You either know them or you don't, and if you don't, then it is best for you to be informed that you don't, as it may help your own personal development.
Dumb@ss, in both instances im talking about the first time... and it was a legit revolution... if you insist on responing, atleast read the words without projecting your own meanings into them...
Hey, you said:
not that the US left him hanging years later... he's lucky to have had those years at all, since they were stolen...
That is a direct reference to the Shah of Iran. So, please try not to change your story, when the going gets tough.
actually, you know what, never mind... to the left, son... stop polluting threads with the same message over and over... make a thread and talk to yourself all day if you must... you have driven out the rest of the people in this forum... its no coincidence that when you start posting, the off topic forum drops off...
Yes, now it is my fault that you are naive and uninformed about geopoliticas. :rolleyes:
Others who stopped posting were smarter than you. They contributed and then stopped when they had no more to contribute, but you kept on shooting in the dark.....
and to everyone else, MY BAD,
Yes, it was your BAD for trying to discuss topics that are way above your head.
i sincerely appologize for feeding the retard...
What, now you are Obama's cook? LOL!
i had already forgotten my previous lessons in NetRetard101...
That would make YOU the retard, wouldn't it, now?
BJJ-Blue
02-10-2011, 08:23 AM
BLUE, your words???
Please ask your question(s) again and I will answer. I got lost in all the large posts.
and it does come down to money...
not talking to you HW...
Actually, reports are that Saudi Arabia told him not to "humiliate" Mubarak and that they would back him had the US tried to force a regime change.
Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/09/source-saudis-tell-obama-humiliate-mubarak/
KC Elbows
02-10-2011, 08:37 AM
We've been losing middle eastern allies for thirty years, of course we don't have clever diplomatic options when negotiating with the last viable one.
Lucas
02-10-2011, 12:24 PM
interesting this morning to see whats being reported on the discussions on capitol hill regarding the muslim brotherhood being secular then watching the reporters in cairo going like 'wtf are the intel guys smoking??!?, not the case at all'
but hurray for the People of Egypt, a great step has occured today if Mubarak does indeed step down today.
Hardwork108
02-10-2011, 02:55 PM
The people of Egypt are fighting for their rights and freedoms, however their revolution is in danger of being "kidnapped" and redirected into a direction where the usual colonizers still call the shots:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/164311.html
.
well, looks like they did it... so far so good... mubarack stepped down today...
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/showdown-egypt-mubarak-hangs-20110210-181929-700.html
shouldnt be long now... its still not over tho... but good for the egyptian people and how they have shown all these so called democratic countries around the world what real democracy is... not this illusion bull**** we have settled for... but real people power... fukc yeah, im very happy for them...
Lucas
02-11-2011, 02:34 PM
this will sound kind of ghey but when i turned on the news broadcast this morning and saw the surge of joy run through the hundreds of thousands in the square and the announcement was made, i teared up. I was very very happy for the people of Egypt.
a lot to be done for sure, but a step forward. one can only hope the momentum continues and the people truly get a fair representation in their government and are able to form political parties under the name of freedom and democracy
thats not g@y, thats how a real freedom loving democracy advocating american should feel... its moving sh1t... these cats are showing us what we think we know and take for granted daily...
well, you can bet your ass the Al Saud familly is ****ing their pants right about now...
your next fukcers!!!!!!!!!!! they arent our allies, and they are the one country that actually does impose sharia law... the states makes such noise about sharia law and then their biggest ally in the middle east, outside of egypt, is saudi arabia.... how fukced up is that...
Lucas
02-11-2011, 03:00 PM
some 'leaders' sure are ****ting bricks right now. :D
ok so they handed it over to some sort of millitary tribunal of sorts... is mubarak the head of this organization that is taking over??? he may not be prez but that doesnt mean he isnt still in power... anyone know the details on that??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSvM1d27Fb4
best part of the whole thing is when the christians made a circle around the muslims to protect them from police during their prayer times... thats fresh.... watch and learn people...
Lucas
02-11-2011, 03:19 PM
from what ive followed the supreme council does involve mubarak, however for this past meeting he was not invited or involved, that it was essentially a military coup (from reports). that being only the 3rd time the supreme council has met. but who knows right?
but technically he is chairman of the supreme council, yes???
i love how you can directly link all this to wikileaks...
Lucas
02-11-2011, 03:38 PM
yep he was(is?) im assuming if it was indeed an actual coup, he no longer is. the reporting is that the military finally sided with the people but we've all read the art of war....even mubarak im sure.
yeah well if western media was good at reporting facts i wouldnt be asking... lol... you know, you got some alex jones mutherfukcer on one end, glenn beck on the other and all these so called new agencies in between... i dont take any of em at face value...
i do like the young turks tho... i wish there was a good conservative version of the turks... alas, there is not... ive looked hard... most opinionated conservative shows are brutally biased and outright untrue so often it makes me sick... quite unfortunate, i do say!!!
Hardwork108
02-11-2011, 05:07 PM
I believe that we need to watch the person who will replace Mubarak. The powers that be usually do their best to control all sides of a given conflict. That is how they work, and that is why nothing seems to change, and we are left with the good old, "well it is a human thing", excuse.
Just look at the Afghan and the post Saddam Iraqi leadership, who are all connected to US/Western organizations. I am sure it is all a "coincidence"...
Mohamed ElBaradei would be a mojor mistake... he's egyptian by blood only... he was raised and schooled elsewhere... he's a UN front man and a proponent of the globalist movement... in short, he's not for a real democracy...
edit... lemme clear that up... he was born in cairo and did attend school there but he since left and jumped into bed with groups who pretend to care about egypts sovereignty... he may have been a believer at the beggining but he is a different man than he was when he was 20... he's not what egypt needs... they need a man who was born educated and never abandoned egypt for a better life elsewhere... they need a man or woman who has been there since birth and has been involved in politics IN EGYPT thier whole life... prefferably somebody who is younger... 35 or so...
that was awesome when they protected the muslims during prayer time... moving sh1t...
but no... they deserve their say, like the muslim brotherhood does, but the government needs to be secular... we cant have religious groups slipping religious law thru the cracks any more than they already are...
just look at our own backyard.... some of our stupidest laws are because of christian advocacy groups lobbying to get their way rather than whats best for ALL peoples...
but then i am a firm believer that multiculturalism is an absolute disaster of a failure... im with Steyn on that one for sure... brutal failure... the only thing more sad than that is that alot of people dont see it...
mickey
02-11-2011, 09:05 PM
Greetings,
In my book, the celebration is premature.
Will the people take their country into their own hands or settle for the illusion, the continuance of the current structure, that is being offered to them?
I hope that they choose to establish a republic, rather than a democracy.
I also find it hilarious that US media is now referring to the former president of Egypt as a tyrant.
mickey
Hardwork108
02-11-2011, 10:15 PM
yeah well if western media was good at reporting facts i wouldnt be asking... lol... you know, you got some alex jones mutherfukcer on one end,
That was uncalled for. You may not like his voice, or may not comprehend what he is talking about, but it is not right to name call.
All I can say is that the way things are going you are going to find out, one way or the other, what he is talking about.
Hardwork108
02-11-2011, 10:18 PM
Mohamed ElBaradei would be a mojor mistake... he's egyptian by blood only... he was raised and schooled elsewhere... he's a UN front man and a proponent of the globalist movement... in short, he's not for a real democracy...
edit... lemme clear that up... he was born in cairo and did attend school there but he since left and jumped into bed with groups who pretend to care about egypts sovereignty... he may have been a believer at the beggining but he is a different man than he was when he was 20... he's not what egypt needs... they need a man who was born educated and never abandoned egypt for a better life elsewhere... they need a man or woman who has been there since birth and has been involved in politics IN EGYPT thier whole life... prefferably somebody who is younger... 35 or so...
You know Syn7, there may be hope for you yet! :)
That was uncalled for. You may not like his voice, or may not comprehend what he is talking about, but it is not right to name call.
All I can say is that the way things are going you are going to find out, one way or the other, what he is talking about.
i agree with alot of things alex jones says...thats not my point... he's a pus$y... he seems like the kind of guy that would turn red like a tomato and seem scandalized if you b1tch slapped him upside his head...
seriously, he's just far too p1ssed off to keep a level head and do his research without bias, or as lil as possible anyways... he makes alot of valid points but he allows his emotion to carry him off in irrelevant tangents a la glenn beck... same guy, other side... and when i first saw glenn beck like 10 years ago he seemed pretrty reasonable, but after awhile you see a clear agenda and their credability starts to fade as a real journalist and turn into opinion pushers... he spends more time trying to rally the troops with speeches and anecdotes than he does showing the evidence he swears he read... once in a while he throws up a piece of evidence and thats cool, but its never enough, he makes so many claims... he needs to put more time into facts and less time into emotion...
you really like that guy ay... he's like 'the man' to you??? why arent you offended that i think glenn beck is a motherfukcer??? and honestly, when i used it the first time it was more of slang thing you may even use to refer a friend, not a direct attack... but yeah, i'll say it now... they both are... doesnt mean they dont have valiue, i just dont approve of their methods...
Hardwork108
02-12-2011, 02:13 PM
i agree with alot of things alex jones says...thats not my point... he's a pus$y... he seems like the kind of guy that would turn red like a tomato and seem scandalized if you b1tch slapped him upside his head...
To me, he is the opposite. He comes across as a gutsy character that sticks his head into areas of journalistical research where so called "real" journalists would not dare.
seriously, he's just far too p1ssed off to keep a level head and do his research without bias, or as lil as possible anyways... he makes alot of valid points but he allows his emotion to carry him off in irrelevant tangents a la glenn beck...
I believed the fact that he is so p1ssed off help and encourage him to stick to his battle, and I guess that the more he finds out the more p1ssed off he gets too.
same guy, other side... and when i first saw glenn beck like 10 years ago he seemed pretrty reasonable, but after awhile you see a clear agenda and their credability starts to fade as a real journalist and turn into opinion pushers...
You should check out what Alex Jones has to say about Glen Beck.LOL!
Glen Beck does make some valid points and does provide some evidence. but I believe that he does not go far enough, and with good reason too, as he is ultimately answerable to Fox owner Rupert Murdock, who is an establishment figure head, and not really a proponent of freedom and love for all.;)
he spends more time trying to rally the troops with speeches and anecdotes than he does showing the evidence he swears he read... once in a while he throws up a piece of evidence and thats cool, but its never enough, he makes so many claims... he needs to put more time into facts and less time into emotion...
I believe that he provides enough evidence to make what he says a lot more of a fact then the garbage we are fed through what is laughingly called the "news". Of course, as always, one must also refer to one's instincts when it comes to these complex matters.
you really like that guy ay... he's like 'the man' to you??? why arent you offended that i think glenn beck is a motherfukcer???
To be honest, I find that term very offensive when thrown around like that. That is not to say that there aren't people "worthy" of the term, which is apt for mass murdering, drug running criminals like the Bushes and Clintons, and even Obamas of this world.;)
and honestly, when i used it the first time it was more of slang thing you may even use to refer a friend, not a direct attack... but yeah, i'll say it now... they both are... doesnt mean they dont have valiue, i just dont approve of their methods...
That is your opinion, probably a humble one at that.:D
Personally speaking, where I come from you can't throw around terms like that casually, as you would expect to end up in hospital,if that is, if you were unlucky enough to survive the consequences.;)
I guess it is a question of different cultures having a different take on the same thing.....
duuh... everything i say is my opinion... unless otherwise stated...
if i have a friend walk thru the door and he's late and i say to everyone else "oh look this motherfukcer finally showed" we would all laugh and move on... whereas if i said "hey, you motherfukcer, come on time or not at all you motherfukcer" then thems be fightin words... im suprised you dont know the difference... motherfukcer in place of a proper name in the same way as sh1t would be used in place of objects... like go pick up my sh1t from my house... im not asking them to plunge my toilet and bring me my morning sh1t... i mean my stuff... just how old are you??? i mean, this is common language thats been around forever...
granted, its easy to lose the context when reading a web forum... you cant see my face and my body language... if i say MF and im smiling then you know its passive... if i say MF and im runnin up on ya then you may wanna get ready for some violence...
Hardwork108
02-12-2011, 11:28 PM
duuh... everything i say is my opinion... unless otherwise stated...
if i have a friend walk thru the door and he's late and i say to everyone else "oh look this motherfukcer finally showed" we would all laugh and move on... whereas if i said "hey, you motherfukcer, come on time or not at all you motherfukcer" then thems be fightin words... im suprised you dont know the difference... motherfukcer in place of a proper name in the same way as sh1t would be used in place of objects... like go pick up my sh1t from my house... im not asking them to plunge my toilet and bring me my morning sh1t... i mean my stuff... just how old are you??? i mean, this is common language thats been around forever...
granted, its easy to lose the context when reading a web forum... you cant see my face and my body language... if i say MF and im smiling then you know its passive... if i say MF and im runnin up on ya then you may wanna get ready for some violence...
As I stated, there are some cultures on this planet where that kind of language can get one into a hip of unecessary trouble.....;)
As I stated, there are some cultures on this planet where that kind of language can get one into a hip of unecessary trouble.....;)
i said it here and only here matters as far as this is concerned... and in my world its only pu$$ies who are easilly placated by some good ol fashioned violence with extreme prejudice that make a big deal about nothing... im not worried about it...
Hardwork108
02-13-2011, 12:55 AM
i said it here and only here matters as far as this is concerned... and in my world its only pu$$ies who are easilly placated by some good ol fashioned violence with extreme prejudice that make a big deal about nothing... im not worried about it...
That is because you live in your world and not theirs. :D
IMHO, it has nothing to do with being a pu$$y. There are some cultures, mainly the more traditional ones that take offence with the type of "jokey" language that is thrown around like candy nowadays. Some of these culures have seen wars and violence for thousands of years, so they do know the meaning of violence, yet they are easily offended.
This may have something to do with stronger family values than their Western counterparts.
yeah, and when im in their backyard i act accordingly... when theyre in mine, they assimilate or get offended... but thats on them, im not a part of that process... the fact that you feel the need to point that out is kinda messed up... do you think everyone doesnt already know that??? like its some profound sh1t??? coz its not... thats like a pre teen epiphany when first being exposed to other cultures as an individual...
whats worse is that you are the one who is offended and im saying I DONT CARE... why you feel the need to talk about other cultures is beyond me... especially since i was talking to lucas... you chose to be offended and insert yourself into your little manufactured argument that has nothing to do with anything... so whatever, be offended, but do it silently...
and my family values are fine... im a highly adaptable individual... how i am with my friends isnt how i am at a board meeting or visiting fam or with my girl etc etc... they all get different pieces of me and i adapt between them... but then i would hope everyone can adapt in such a simple manner... its not something i would refer to as a skill...
anyways... cairo... i hope he really stepped down... hopefully they make him leave and go anywhere but egypt... ban em...
Hardwork108
02-13-2011, 07:59 AM
yeah, and when im in their backyard i act accordingly... when theyre in mine, they assimilate or get offended... but thats on them, im not a part of that process... the fact that you feel the need to point that out is kinda messed up... do you think everyone doesnt already know that??? like its some profound sh1t??? coz its not... thats like a pre teen epiphany when first being exposed to other cultures as an individual...
whats worse is that you are the one who is offended and im saying I DONT CARE... why you feel the need to talk about other cultures is beyond me... especially since i was talking to lucas... you chose to be offended and insert yourself into your little manufactured argument that has nothing to do with anything... so whatever, be offended, but do it silently...
and my family values are fine... im a highly adaptable individual... how i am with my friends isnt how i am at a board meeting or visiting fam or with my girl etc etc... they all get different pieces of me and i adapt between them... but then i would hope everyone can adapt in such a simple manner... its not something i would refer to as a skill...
Just to say that I am sure that there are Canadians who would feel offended by that kind of language. Anyway, I was just trying to make a point from a personal cultural perspective.:cool:;)
anyways... cairo... i hope he really stepped down... hopefully they make him leave and go anywhere but egypt... ban em...
Careful, they may send Mubarak to Canada. :D
he should go live in his pad in NY... go back to his keepers... he can drink it up with rockafellers and gores...
Hardwork108
02-13-2011, 02:55 PM
he should go live in his pad in NY... go back to his keepers... he can drink it up with rockafellers and gores...
He can also practice kickboxing in Dave Ross's NY school...:p
BJJ-Blue
02-14-2011, 08:36 AM
just look at our own backyard.... some of our stupidest laws are because of christian advocacy groups lobbying to get their way rather than whats best for ALL peoples...
Can you give some examples?
The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are 'Blue Laws' and sodomy laws. Blue Laws are alcohol laws, pertaining to when alcohol can be sold. In Texas it's mainly that we can't sell alcohol before noon on Sunday. As to sodomy laws, they are rarely (if ever) enforced. I can't remember the last person tried for it down here (although I bet MK will tell us) ;).
MasterKiller
02-14-2011, 09:13 AM
Can you give some examples?
The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are 'Blue Laws' and sodomy laws. Blue Laws are alcohol laws, pertaining to when alcohol can be sold. In Texas it's mainly that we can't sell alcohol before noon on Sunday. As to sodomy laws, they are rarely (if ever) enforced. I can't remember the last person tried for it down here (although I bet MK will tell us) ;).
Well, as recent as 2003, Texas was trying to enforce them:
In June 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas that state laws criminalizing private, non-commercial sexual activity between consenting adults at home on the grounds of morality are unconstitutional since there is insufficient justification for intruding into people's liberty and privacy.
Well, as recent as 2003, Texas was trying to enforce them:
In June 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas that state laws criminalizing private, non-commercial sexual activity between consenting adults at home on the grounds of morality are unconstitutional since there is insufficient justification for intruding into people's liberty and privacy.
BAAAAAAM.... WHAT!!!
lol
anyways, hill hill and obama, two of the biggest pu$$ies on earth... they waste no time condemning iran yet they supported mubarak right up until they had no choice but to change side...
life in iran is not so much worse than egypt like you will see on tghe news... i know so many arabs who migrated here to escape all that sh1t and find a better life, make some dollars etc etc... i pick theyre brains as much as i can... and the average income in iran is much higher than in egypt... also, the regime in power now is a direct consequence of cia meddling... had the shah never come back, i bet the whole middle east would be better off... not just isreal... isreal is NOT more important than jordan syria saudi arabia yemen lebanon egypt uae kuwait etc etc... oh, cant forget palestine, who is a legit nation whether the west feels like recognizing them or not...
what is truly fukced up tho is that nobody on any major news network has much if anything at all about saudi arabia... hhhhmmm, wonder why...
ironically the only person i have heard slam the al saud fam is glen beck... its ironic becoz one of the largest shareholders of fox parent co. is the al saud fam... i think thats about the nicest thing i'll ever have to say about glen beck... but its true none the less...
i done sawed it wit me own eyez!!!
Hardwork108
02-15-2011, 10:36 PM
what is truly fukced up tho is that nobody on any major news network has much if anything at all about saudi arabia... hhhhmmm, wonder why...
ironically the only person i have heard slam the al saud fam is glen beck... its ironic becoz one of the largest shareholders of fox parent co. is the al saud fam... i think thats about the nicest thing i'll ever have to say about glen beck... but its true none the less...
i done sawed it wit me own eyez!!!
Glen Beck has also "covered" personalities such as George Soros, who himself is a nasty piece of work. However, I am still aware that GB is ultimately answerable to Rupert Murdock, so I always wonder about his motives.
Glen Beck may be part of a phenomenon known as "controlled opposition", which is meant to create an illusion of choice and freedom. One can see this during elections when "Democrats" enter debates, or run against "Republicans", etc. Those who are awake know that these labels are just masks on the same face!
Anyway, wether Glen Beck himself is aware of the fact that he is probably a "controlled opposition" puppet, or not, is anybody's guess.....
Glen Beck has also "covered" personalities such as George Soros, who himself is a nasty piece of work. However, I am still aware that GB is ultimately answerable to Rupert Murdock, so I always wonder about his motives.
Glen Beck may be part of a phenomenon known as "controlled opposition", which is meant to create an illusion of choice and freedom. One can see this during elections when "Democrats" enter debates, or run against "Republicans", etc. Those who are awake know that these labels are just masks on the same face!
Anyway, wether Glen Beck himself is aware of the fact that he is probably a "controlled opposition" puppet, or not, is anybody's guess.....
this is the best vid of glen beck i could find... he sure knows how to satisfy his own thirst...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yZFbzaWbg
BJJ-Blue
02-16-2011, 01:17 PM
BAAAAAAM.... WHAT!!!
How so? He showed an appeal over 7 years ago. Sounds like we aren't enforcing those laws recently at all. Ask him when the last conviction for violating the sodomy laws in Texas happened....
anyways, hill hill and obama, two of the biggest pu$$ies on earth... they waste no time condemning iran yet they supported mubarak right up until they had no choice but to change side...
Actually the community organizer first said Mubarak should step down, then he didn't want him to step down (once Saudi Arabia said they would back Mubarak if he chose to stay), and then Mubarak stepped down. So he took both sides.
And I haven't heard him condemn Iran yet, and they are so far taking a much more hard-line approach to the demonstrations than Egypt did. If I missed him condemning Iran, just let me know. I don't watch the news 24/7 and may well have just missed it.
Lucas
02-16-2011, 01:35 PM
I just found out about this, this **** is messed up....i dont care how un free or oppressed you are, the people involved in this should be shot imo, or given over to their enemies for torture.... oh lets tip toe around these guys and then when they rape our citizens lets keep tip toeing around like little *****es. wtf....i still have sympothy for the people of egypt but i lost a lot, stand up for human rights as a whole or deal with your freaking dictator. ****ing hypocrites ruin a good thing for millions by staining the movement with hate, fear, rape, and torture. way to go egypt...
http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2011/02/cbs-reporter-gang-raped-in-cairo.html
I just found out about this, this **** is messed up....i dont care how un free or oppressed you are, the people involved in this should be shot imo, or given over to their enemies for torture.... oh lets tip toe around these guys and then when they rape our citizens lets keep tip toeing around like little *****es. wtf....i still have sympothy for the people of egypt but i lost a lot, stand up for human rights as a whole or deal with your freaking dictator. ****ing hypocrites ruin a good thing for millions by staining the movement with hate, fear, rape, and torture. way to go egypt...
http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2011/02/cbs-reporter-gang-raped-in-cairo.html
she was not gang raped... she was sexually harassed in a major way... groped fondled handled but nowhere near gang raped... and it was egyptian women who saved her...
sex crime is a major issue in egypt... its one of the reasons people want change so bad.... a demonstrator is beaten to death while a rapist murderer may not even be persued...
that article is sensationalistic, irresponsible and down right pathetic....
come on lucas, diversify your sources... find that balance between indy and commercial and use ur head... i understand your anger, but dont let some rabble rouser(sp?) get you too fired up, lest you be judged as rabble:rolleyes:
you my friend have just been a victim of americas biggest problem... misinformation, disinformation and distorted truths in order to achieve capatalist objectives... do some homework...
ALL sexually oppressed cultures will show signs of hightened deviency... look at the "catholic problem"...
Lucas
02-16-2011, 01:51 PM
well i just posted the first link i found on google results, initially i read it in The Oregonian, but it was the same info....sorry i guess the city news paper needs to check sources better lol
i know i ranted, without verifying, but sexual violence ****es me off like no other. id pull the trigger myself on anyone who even sexually abuses someone even for as little as un wanted fondling. no joke, id even pull it twice just for spite.
but ur right, i just got media raped...
well i just posted the first link i found on google results, initially i read it in The Oregonian, but it was the same info....sorry i guess the city news paper needs to check sources better lol
i know i ranted, without verifying, but sexual violence ****es me off like no other. id pull the trigger myself on anyone who even sexually abuses someone even for as little as un wanted fondling. no joke, id even pull it twice just for spite.
but ur right, i just got media raped...
sorry i didnt mean to come across like a d1ck.... i agree with most of what you have to say... it ****es me off too... its sad that its even possible there... but thats the reality... another reality is that the "bad guys" are a minority pretty much everywhere... it takes one a$$hole to ruin everyones day... like the one drunk idiot at the party that draws heat and brings the cops down on ya...
egypt has a population of 80 million people and they have a majority that lives on like 6 grand A YEAR... these kinds of social ills are not a suprise...
it is in egypts best interest to defend eachother but its not in their best interest to start masss arrrests for ANY reason right now... an unfortunate consequence of that is that people will get away with murder...
i read one story of a muslim woman being groped in the crowd, she slapped her attacker and then a group of young men lined up and made the guy walk the guantlet while they all slapped the sh1t out of him... we need to be objective here, take a step back and let these people sort out their own mess... reporters go at their own risk and they know that...
besides, under normal conditions they wouldnt have had the chance but because it happened right after mubarak stepped down they crowd was in a frenzy, good and bad, and she was separated from her security team... it took hundreds of thpusands of people going nuttz to create that situation tho... it wont happen very often, if at all...
Lucas
02-16-2011, 03:06 PM
ya you do make good points. and dont sweat it you didnt come off as a d!ck, i dont take anything online personally or even that seriously. :p
you call things like you see them, resepect due on that bro
Hardwork108
02-16-2011, 03:16 PM
this is the best vid of glen beck i could find... he sure knows how to satisfy his own thirst...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yZFbzaWbg
I believe that some of Glen Beck's programs touch issues that other mainstream news programs would not touch with a ten foot pole. At least he questions the official Global Warming theory; He questions the loss of US industrial power, etc.
Again, I always have in mind the fact that he is employed by Rupert Murdock.....;)
thats unfortunate isnt it Hdub...
glen beck himself will tell you he doesnt do news, he isnt a reporter and he doesnt fact check like he would if he was... he's a commentator... nothing more...
also,he is unstable, i hope its on the air when he finally melts down...
and he cried more than JB, who is also unstable...
oh and...
thanx lucas, glad you didnt take it personally...:)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/16/miguel-martinez-beaten-bahrain-protests_n_824348.html
Miguel Marquez Beaten In Bahrain: ABC News Correspondent Attacked During Protests In Pearl Square
its clear saudi arabia will do anything it can to make sure no more protests erupt... they are throwing money everywhere to keep places like bahrain and yemen from flipping... this is a US ally, (a country that actually does have sharia law unlike some 'enemies' that dont but are accused of for political reasons) they are actively supressing the rise of democracy in the middle east...
its funny, the christian right is so afraid of these countries becoming al queda armies of evil muslim maniacs... you would think a christian would have faith in his fellow man and believe that these are people who want freedom... people who deserve what we take for granted... basic human rights... have faith that they will become better places for it... these are young people who are far far better informed about EVERYTHING than their parents and grandparents who have a global outlook from the internet and media and they want we we have... a choice... a voice... anyone against that is wrong...
so apparently when the police moved in and attacked the sleeping peaceful protesters in bahrain, the king led the charge himself... in the west we are used to useless royalty that does no more than stand and wave, consume and pretend to be philanthropists... so its weird to see a kind actually lead an armed force... not a big deal, i mean all he did was use a well armed force to attack unarmed sleeping protesters... still more than any euro royal has done lately...
it just goes to show how afrain the al saud fam really is... coz you know thats who ordered this... tthey are pi$$ing themselves as i type....
'Bilderberg Hand': Deadly chaos in Libya, Bahrain as Wave of Rage spreads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXiTuxqRk2Y&feature=player_embedded
BJJ-Blue
02-22-2011, 10:28 AM
Syn,
I notice you are not mentioning Libya. They have fired on protesters, killing many of them. Where is the community organizer? Why was he asking Mubarak, an ally of ours, to step down when there were protests in his country, but not asking Kaddafy (however the Hell you spell it), who is an enemy of ours, to step down when there are protests in his country? And Mubarak did not order the military to fire upon civilians, while Kaddaffy did.
Can someone who supports the community organizer please explain this double standard, as I dont get it.
i think obama and hilhill have been absolutely gutless wimps in this whole matter so... yeah... dont ask me coz i do not support them in this... i think they are too much the politicians to take any sort of moral stand here...
obama isnt a leader, he's a joke... i wish he had a pair... i really do...
im happy libya is changing... its pretty recent tho, its ongoing and news is pretty scarce... you tube clips and heresay... we'll see, i hope it works out for those people...
and blue, the last post i put up was about libya... before that my last post was on the 18th and i really hadnt seen much exept that they were protesting... back then i didnt know about the airforce attacks and stuff... prolly coz they hadnt happened yet...
BJJ-Blue
02-22-2011, 01:42 PM
i think obama and hilhill have been absolutely gutless wimps in this whole matter so... yeah... dont ask me coz i do not support them in this... i think they are too much the politicians to take any sort of moral stand here...
He wasn't gutless when it came to Mubarak. He called for Mubarak to step down. So far, he hasn't said Quaddaffy shoud step down, and that guy is slaughtering civilians, unlike Mubarak.
obama isnt a leader, he's a joke... i wish he had a pair... i really do...
Reagan had a pair when he dealt with Kaddoffy. ;)
And thanks for being civil :), it's been getting a bit tense lately.
obama did noyt take a firm stance on egypt right away... he waited to see what way the wind was blowing before he said anything... his first talk with egypt was like "you better settle things down and show you wanna have a fair election in septenber" then it went to "you better do a better job at showing you wanna have fair elections" and only when it was obvious that mubarak was done did obama speak and say he must step down...
another thing that really bothers me is that nobody is saying anything about saudi arabia... they must be taken down... the people need to vote there... no more al saud fam... not even as figure heads... you know there must be protests there too... must be... every state around them is, so they are too... how many saudi arabian protests have you seen on the news lately???
death to tyrants... straight up, i dont care about power vaccums... if the west truly believed in democracy first, they would do all they could to help topple these regimes and bring in fair elections... even if that means a hamas is elected... that is their choice, not ours...
and that is spelled Muammar al-Gaddafi but some spell it like Gadhafi....
aint he a looker... you think he likes boys??? serious, he seems so "delicate"...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Muammar_al-Gaddafi%2C_12th_AU_Summit%2C_090202-N-0506A-534_cropped.jpg/400px-Muammar_al-Gaddafi%2C_12th_AU_Summit%2C_090202-N-0506A-534_cropped.jpg
BJJ-Blue
02-22-2011, 03:24 PM
obama did noyt take a firm stance on egypt right away... he waited to see what way the wind was blowing before he said anything... his first talk with egypt was like "you better settle things down and show you wanna have a fair election in septenber" then it went to "you better do a better job at showing you wanna have fair elections" and only when it was obvious that mubarak was done did obama speak and say he must step down...
You're right he didn't take a firm stance, but your timeline is a little off.
First he said Mubarak should step down because of the protests. Then when Saudi Arabia said they would fund him if he chose to stay, the community organizer changed his tune. Then when he decided to step down the community organizer said he was doing the right thing. He was all over the map on that one. :rolleyes:
The guy is a freakin' weather vane... that 3 foot long index finger of his is always straight up in the air, waiting to find out what his opinion is... the guy is a clown... i agree with some of his work and i disagree with some of his work, but one thing im sure about is that he isnt who america wanted him to be... maybe ron paul would have been better... as it stands i think ron paul could beat obama in 2012... too bad repubs dont like ron paul... but if all republicans voted for him, he could steal enough from the center area to tip it in his favor... i dont think anyone else would stand a chance in 2012... too bad neo cons hate ron paul... he's the only republican that has a chance... his grass roots base is freakin huge and very loyal and hard working... if they cave and send in huckabee or palin they will lose... this a guaruntee... you can hold me to that... i like ron paul because he's a real fiscal conservative, not one of these fake d1ckheads that talk the talk but walk a different line... he's also the only guy i can think of that has the brains and the balls to take on wall street... fiat is bullsh1t... time to base the currency on something real... like gold... ofcourse that would sink america cause they dont hjave the backup... places like switzerland would do very well because they can back every penny with gold bricks...
BJJ-Blue
02-23-2011, 07:50 AM
Syn,
I doubt he will run this time, but if he does you should look at Alan Keyes. I think you might agree with alot of his stances.
who ron paul??? i dunno, he sure had alotta support at the straw man poll and his people are talking, like they always do... also, he rakes in money... unless hes just sick of being sidelined by his own party i dont see why he wouldnt go again... its just a primary... cant have a ron paul revolution without ron paul...
there are lots of things about ron paul i dont like, but he seems like a good guy and i do like alot of what he does say...
as for obama, maybe you'll get lucky and he'll back off and let somebody else take his place... anyone but hillary... doubt it tho...
doesnt look too good in libya huh... this guy isnt gonna leave quietly...
BJJ-Blue
02-23-2011, 11:40 AM
who ron paul??? i dunno, he sure had alotta support at the straw man poll and his people are talking, like they always do... also, he rakes in money... unless hes just sick of being sidelined by his own party i dont see why he wouldnt go again... its just a primary... cant have a rome paul revolution without ron paul...
Sorry about the confusion. I meant I doubt Alan Keyes will run, but if he does you should look at Keyes' positions. My bad.
As to Paul, I voted for him in the primaries in 2008, and if he runs I'll likely vote for him again, but of course I'll wait to see who else runs. Gotta have an open mind and look at all candidates.
as for obama, maybe you'll get lucky and he'll back off and let somebody else take his place... anyone but hillary... doubt it tho...
The community organizer isn't gonna leave on his own. He is a radical demogogue, and he feels he is on a mission to radically change, ie bankrupt, this country. He won't even "triangulate" like Clinton did in the face of an enormous defeat. And Clinton's triangulation made him a fairly successful President (fiscally) and got him reelected. Obama refuses to change even in the face of a "shellacking". Do you think a guy like that is just gonna quit?
no... i think he will just keep caving in to pressure day after day after day... the weather vane president... its like he doesnt wanna fight anymore... his whole thing is reaching out across the aisle and he just gives in over and over... and its so sad because its not like he'll ever be thanked, republicans will see it as weakness and just crowd in for a good ol fashion beatdown... i dont know what he's thinking... certainly not about sticking to any sort of principle and leading... act, not just react... all he does it react...
so do you think the UN or somebody should roll up on libya???
BJJ-Blue
02-23-2011, 03:29 PM
no... i think he will just keep caving in to pressure day after day after day... the weather vane president... its like he doesnt wanna fight anymore... his whole thing is reaching out across the aisle and he just gives in over and over... and its so sad because its not like he'll ever be thanked, republicans will see it as weakness and just crowd in for a good ol fashion beatdown... i dont know what he's thinking... certainly not about sticking to any sort of principle and leading... act, not just react... all he does it react...
How is he a "weather vane" president? He played serious hardball (even resorting to bribery) to get healthcare through, and over 50% of Americans didn't want it. He refuses to triangulate even after the "shellacking". This budget battle takes TWO sides not giving in, and he is one side. And his side got "shellacked" just a few months ago. Clinton was more of a "weather vane", he governed by polls.
so do you think the UN or somebody should roll up on libya???
That's a tough one. I don't feel they really belong in another country's domestic issues, but Kaddaffy is apparently ordering the military to slaughter civilians. One thing I feel we REALLY need, is our President taking a strong stand and saying in very harsh language that this is not acceptable. There is absolutely no reason unarmed civilians just protesting non-violently should be being gunned down by helicopters flown by the military of their own country for the sole reason of keeping a dictator in power. And I am very disappointed with Obama on this. And I swear I'm not being partisan here. If Bush had gotten involved in Egypt where there was no violence, but turned a blind eye to Libya where so far estimates are 1,000+ have been murdered, I'd be criticizing him just as harshly. This guy ran on bringing people together, yet he is not saying a word about a dictator slaughtering his own people who simply want the freedom to vote.
I'm really not trying to aruge by asking this, but I would like someone to tell me why he had to inject himself into Egypt's non-violent protests, but won't inject himslef into Libya's protests where the Gov't is murdering it's own people.
And what makes it even more puzzling is that Mubarak was an ally of ours, a moderate Muslim who dealt with Israel at the bargaining table, and never made any threats or conducted hostile action at our forces. While Kaddaffy is a sworn enemy of ours, he is a hardline/radical terrorist supporter and who has attacked our forces in the Gulf of Sidra twice. It truly boggles my mind. Why oppose the 'good guy', while not condemning the 'bad guy'?
KC Elbows
02-23-2011, 03:56 PM
Egypts leader was our *******, Libya's isn't. We can't afford Egypt going the Iran route, so we had to do something to mitigate a popular uprising while trying to keep some of our *******s in charge, so the figurehead will probably change, but we still have close ties to the people who are in charge of EVERYTHING in Egypt.
To be clear, the U.S. has often allowed her *******s to kill their own people rather indiscriminately. That's why they're called "our *******s".
Lucas
02-23-2011, 04:00 PM
did you just catch the pres. speach about 30 min ago? what did you think about what he said there?
KC Elbows
02-23-2011, 04:05 PM
did you just catch the pres. speach about 30 min ago? what did you think about what he said there?
I just got home from work, I'll have to check it out.
Lucas
02-23-2011, 04:12 PM
its not hardcore strong language, but i think it addresses how we are approaching the region in regards to the people and their persuit of basic human rights.
i think a tough part for us as the USA is being able to be involved but not so much as to appear to oust the people of their movement and make it about us.
what i find so funny is how the people in these countries are looking to see more from us in terms of support and such.....why not france, or russia, :p
KC Elbows
02-23-2011, 04:33 PM
what i find so funny is how the people in these countries are looking to see more from us in terms of support and such.....why not france, or russia, :p
Because when you think your supervisor sucks, you should go to his boss?
BJJ-Blue
02-24-2011, 07:37 AM
what i find so funny is how the people in these countries are looking to see more from us in terms of support and such.....why not france, or russia, :p
Because no one gives out foreign aid like we do. We are the most generous, yet one of the more hated, countries in the world. Go figure.
LIBYA
american foreign policy makes me sick...
how do feel about the fact that gadaffis son was a distinguished guest at the state department just over a month ago... condi rice met with gadaffi and had made agreements... the bush admin actually took gaddafi off the terror list... he bought his way off the list and staged a few token demos of his disbanding of chemical weapons etc etc... now they are lining up soldiers to be shot in the back of the head while tied up because they refused to fire on their brothers in the streets...
these are the men american diplomats sucked off for economic reasons... hillhill brought one son up on stage and told everyone what a great partnership they have and all that... brutal... whoops... obama, hilldog, rice, bush, rummy, cheney... all scumbags who made nice with these guys... when they should have been saying no, you are scum and we wont deal with scum... let europe have em...
if americans want to put a real dent in terrorism, stop dealing with them and funding them directly or indirectly... basically, stop dealing with terrorists... kill em or arrest em, but dont do business with them... that should be a given... unfortunately it isnt, not at all... striking deals with terrorists is as american as mom and apple pie...
keep the oil flowing, keep oil prices low, stay away from israel and as far as america is concerned they can do whatever else they want in their own backyard... heres a few hundred million dollars, thanx for the oil... yet we know the money goes to him and his closest peoples... parties with lionel ritchie mariah carey and beyonce... real nice... glad you got some work beyonce... scumbags... im very disappointed in lionel ritchie... he always seemed like a nice enough guy... i never thought he would perform for a brutal dictator like that... peace rally or not... it was just propaganda and he should have known better...
seriously, if you want to claim moral superiority, you need to practice it... FIRST...
Because no one gives out foreign aid like we do. We are the most generous, yet one of the more hated, countries in the world. Go figure.
yeah you give give give and expect nothing in return... US props up evil dictators to keep the country secure so you can do business with them... hardly charity... more money goes into greasing bad men than it does go into paying for medical services for the people... more money goes to guys hiring beyonce than it does for clean needles and sterile bandages...
you prop up the men that are slaughtering them in the streets then you roll up with a few bandaids and wonder why the people dont like america... they are blown up by granades paid for by foriegn "donations" and then we expect them to be happy that they will be patched up with american money...
Go figure.
BJJ-Blue
02-25-2011, 03:09 PM
yeah you give give give and expect nothing in return... US props up evil dictators to keep the country secure so you can do business with them... hardly charity... more money goes into greasing bad men than it does go into paying for medical services for the people... more money goes to guys hiring beyonce than it does for clean needles and sterile bandages...
Bush gave more money to Africa than any other President, and alot of it was for AIDS prevention/education/etc. We didn't do it to get any "business" from those countries. They don't have any!
It's so sad you have such a jaded view of this great country. We are not perfect, but who is better? Who gives more away foreign aid than we do? Who sacrifices thousands of it's own sons and daughters to liberate foreign countries and only takes enough land in return to bury it's dead? What other country has more people literally dying to get into it than we do? What other country would you refer to as the "Beacon of Freedom" if not us? Whose President told Gorbachev to "tear down this wall"? Go ahead, tell me who is better than us...
BJJ-Blue
02-25-2011, 03:10 PM
how do feel about the fact that gadaffis son was a distinguished guest at the state department just over a month ago... condi rice met with gadaffi and had made agreements...
I'm confused, if this happened a month ago, what agreement's can Ms Rice make? She doesn't hold any office/power. The Administration in power replaced her. I'm confused here...:confused:
And did Bush take Kaddaffy off the list, or did he take Libya off the list? Or both?
And it wasn't Bush who freed the Lockerbie bomber. Matter of fact, it was the community organizer who supported freeing that convicted terrorist/murderer.
I'm confused, if this happened a month ago, what agreement's can Ms Rice make? She doesn't hold any office/power. The Administration in power replaced her. I'm confused here...:confused:
And did Bush take Kaddaffy off the list, or did he take Libya off the list? Or both?
And it wasn't Bush who freed the Lockerbie bomber. Matter of fact, it was the community organizer who supported freeing that convicted terrorist/murderer.
no no i was just shooting random examples of admins dealing with them off the top of my head...
rice dealt with gadaffi personally and secured agreememnts... hilldog had the son, a son i should say, as a guest at the state department... and no they took LIBYA off the list... but while in power, libya is gadaffi...
they need to make a no fly zone in and around libya right now... like yesterday... atleast give the crowd a chance... as it stands they are using shotguns against high grade millitary hardware in tripoli... as long as gadaffi can import soldiers he can just keep throwing money at it untill everyone who wants to fight back is dead... he's done it before, its how he has held on to power for so long...
Hardwork108
02-25-2011, 03:44 PM
Egypts leader was our *******, Libya's isn't. We can't afford Egypt going the Iran route, so we had to do something to mitigate a popular uprising while trying to keep some of our *******s in charge,
For the true story behind why IRAN went Iran's route, read the following short passage taken from the book authored by William Engldahl, called "A Century of War".
http://www.aryamehr.org/eng/carter/wieng/cart.html
To be clear, the U.S. has often allowed her *******s to kill their own people rather indiscriminately. That's why they're called "our *******s".
The US has more than allowed her puppets to kill their people. The US has encouraged them to do so, with a lot of military and other help.....
It's so sad you have such a jaded view of this great country.
i have a jaded view of my country too... you are told over and over that things are one way, only to learn later that its not the truth at all... im lucky that i wasnt some sort of patriot as a kid or i would be super ****ed off... ive never really trusted any government... ever... i talk about yours here because its an american forum... in candian forums we talk about canadian politics... you see what im saying?
i dont assume i am always being lied to, or misinformed or even disinformed... but i dont assume im being told the truth either... so any time i care about something i will do research and find as much info as i can... alot of the time i find out its much more than was presented... not always a lie either... usually halftruths, only sometimes its boldfaced lies... but one thing i have learned beyond a shadow of a doubt is that i can not rely on politicians to give me an accurate assessment of whats going on... and i cant trust pundits either because they all have their party bullsh1t so far up their asses they cant even see the other side of things... its disappointing where politics goes... such division...
Hardwork108
02-25-2011, 03:53 PM
....if americans want to put a real dent in terrorism, stop dealing with them and funding them directly or indirectly... basically, stop dealing with terrorists...
I would say that if Americans wanted to stop terrorism, then they should stop carrying out terrorist activities, directly and indirectly, including the false flag operations that have hoodwinked a whole generation into believing that there is an indefinite "terrorist threat", against which there is an undefined war, that is resulting in wars and mass murders abroad, as well as an all out on American citizens' rights and freedoms.
kill em or arrest em,
That would be a good idea. Ok, lets start with the Bushes and Clintons, and their thugs first, then work our way into the intelligence communties.....
but dont do business with them... that should be a given... unfortunately it isnt, not at all... striking deals with terrorists is as american as mom and apple pie...
CREATING THEM; STRIKING A DEAL WITH THEM, AND THEN DESTROYING THEM WHEN THEY OUTLIVE THEIR USEFULNESS - now that is the American way, as well as the British way....;)
seriously, if you want to claim moral superiority, you need to practice it... FIRST...
Agreed, but the rabbit hole runs a lot, lot deeper than you imagine....
BJJ-Blue
02-25-2011, 03:54 PM
no no i was just shooting random examples of admins dealing with them off the top of my head...
Thanks for the clarification. I was all confused there. :p
they need to make a no fly zone in and around libya right now... like yesterday... atleast give the crowd a chance... as it stands they are using shotguns against high grade millitary hardware in tripoli...
I agree. If we are to get involved, besides just implementing worthless sanctions that never work, this is the first thing that should be done.
You gotta give those people credit. They are brave.
so back to libya... no fly zone... like, yesterday!!! do it...
BJJ-Blue
02-25-2011, 03:57 PM
i have a jaded view of my country too... you are told over and over that things are one way, only to learn later that its not the truth at all... im lucky that i wasnt some sort of patriot as a kid or i would be super ****ed off... ive never really trusted any government... ever... i talk about yours here because its an american forum... in candian forums we talk about canadian politics... you see what im saying?
I see what you're saying.
But I still want you to name a better country than ours, and then explain why you gave that answer in relation to the points I made. Again, I'm not saying we are perfect, but we are the best out of all the other choices.
Thanks for the clarification. I was all confused there. :p
I agree. If we are to get involved, besides just implementing worthless sanctions that never work, this is the first thing that should be done.
You gotta give those people credit. They are brave.
very brave... some of them only have kitchen knives... its sad is what it is... cause they will be mowed down... but they will hold while the east prepares to march west... they have weapons now... but those in tripoli are gonna have a real hard time of it for a bit... tripoli is ground zero...
I see what you're saying.
But I still want you to name a better country than ours, and then explain why you gave that answer in relation to the points I made. Again, I'm not saying we are perfect, but we are the best out of all the other choices.
i dont like the word better in this case because its all perspective... but there are many places where the quality of life and freedoms are comparable... canada and lots of europe, especially in the north... the US may be the best place in the world to an american, and thats ok... but you cant grudge somebody from denmark who says the same thing... they enjoy the same rights and freedoms... they have a far healthier middle class than either the US or canada and their medical system is in with the best in the world... the only thing america has that these countries dont have is military bases all over the planet and an insane stockpile of weapons... so many that disposal of old weapons is a real problem... most outsiders look at it as a massive paranoia thing... like a serious fundamental flaw in reason and logic in this matter... i bet if you told average americans exactly how many bases are out there, where they are, how many there, how many die, how much money is spent on them etc etc... i think most average americans would say "bring them ALL home" protect your borders like a motherfukcer, keep a few elites out there gathering data and fighting the good fight, but shut down all these costly satelites...
so... britain and the EU are calling for action in libya... mulling over millitary action was what i read... why is obama being so tame here... just call for his head already... he is an enemy who has done intentional harm to americans and others alike... gut him already...
there are a ton of alternatives on the board... the UN could have it done overnight... no fly zone... start the blockade and inch their way in...
Human Rights Watch
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/20/libya-governments-should-demand-end-unlawful-killings
Libya: Governments Should Demand End to Unlawful Killings
Update: Death Toll Up to At Least 233
The estimated death toll from four days of protests in cities across Libya has risen to at least 233 according to information from hospital sources in Libya, Human Rights Watch said today. From Benghazi, staff at Al Jalaa hospital said they recorded 50 dead on February 20, 2011, while the 7 October hospital reported another 10 dead the same day, giving a total of 60 killed in Benghazi on February 20. This raises the overall death toll from protests in five Libyan cities to 233 since February 17. Human Rights Watch was unable to contact two other hospitals in Benghazi.
(New York) - The African Union and African, Western, and Arab countries that have relations with Libya should urge the Libyan government to stop the unlawful killing of protesters, Human Rights Watch said today. In the last three days, the death toll of protesters reported to Human Rights Watch by hospital staff and other sources has reached at least 173.
Accounts of the use of live ammunition by security forces, including machine gun fire, against protesters near the Katiba in Benghazi on February 19, 2011, resulting in dozens of deaths and injuries, raise serious concern that the authorities are using unjustified and unlawful force. The government has shut down all internet communications in the country, and arrested Libyans who have given phone interviews to the media, making it extremely difficult to obtain information on developments there.
"A potential human rights catastrophe is unfolding in Libya as protesters brave live gunfire and death for a third day running," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. "Libya is trying to impose an information blackout, but it can't hide a massacre."
Eyewitnesses told Human Rights Watch that at least 10,000 protesters are protesting in the streets of Benghazi on February 20, after the funerals of the 84 protesters shot dead the day before.
According to witnesses who spoke to Human Rights Watch, the violence started on February 19 after thousands of protesters had gathered for funeral prayers of 14 of the protesters shot dead by security forces the day before. Followed by thousands of protesters, the funeral procession walked from the square in front of the Benghazi court to the Hawari cemeteries. On the way the marchers passed the Katiba El Fadil Bu Omar, a complex that includes one of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's residences and is heavily guarded by state security officers.
Three eyewitnesses confirmed that the security officers in distinctive uniform with yellow berets fired indiscriminately on protesters. One protester, A.G., told Human Rights Watch, "it was at this stage that they opened fire on us. We were walking along peacefully but were chanting angrily against the regime and Gaddafi."
Another lawyer who was at the protests said to Human Rights Watch, "I could see the men with yellow berets shooting at us with live gunfire, and dozens fell to the ground. This went on for a long period of time, and I left with the injured to the hospital." Later in the afternoon, Human Rights Watch spoke to another protester who said he had left the area because "anyone who goes near the Katiba is shot." In the evening, thousands of protesters were still gathered in front of the Benghazi courthouse.
Human Rights Watch spoke to a senior medical official at Al Jalaa hospital in Beghazi who said the dead started coming in at 3:00 p.m. and that by the end of the day, he had received 23 bodies. By the morning of February 20, the number of dead who arrived at the hospital had risen to 70. He said the deaths and the vast majority of those injured showed gunshot wounds of 4cm x 4cm sustained to the head, neck, and shoulders. Medical officials at Hawari hospital in Benghazi told Human Rights Watch that they had received 14 bodies, Human Rights Watch also confirmed the death of at least one protester in Misrata on February 19, bringing the total number of those killed on February 19 to 85. Human Rights Watch calculates the total dead in four days of protests at 173.
Human Rights Watch calls on the African Union, the European Union, France, Italy, the United Kingdom, the United States, and other governments with ties to Libya to:
•Publicly demand an end to unlawful use of force against peaceful protesters;
•Announce that those responsible for serious violations of international human rights law must be held individually accountable and will be subjected to appropriate measures;
•Impose an embargo on all exports of arms and security equipment to Libya; and
•Tell Libya to restore access to the internet.
The Libyan government cut access to the internet on February 19 and had not restored service on February 20. Craig Labovitz, Chief Scientist at Arbor Networks, an international network security provider, confirmed that internet traffic in Libya dropped to zero on February 19 at 2:00 a.m. in Libya.
A lawyer told Human Rights Watch that early on February 19, security officers had arrested Abdelhafiz Ghogha, one of the most prominent lawyers in Benghazi who represented the families of those killed in 1996 in Abu Salim prison, bringing the total number of activists, lawyers and former political prisoners arrested since the demonstrations began to at least 17.
"In 1996, Libyan authorities killed 1,200 prisoners on one day in Abu Salim and they still haven't acknowledged doing anything wrong that day," said Whitson. "Today the Libyan government has shown the world that it is still using ruthless brutality against its population."
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/20/libya-governments-should-demand-end-unlawful-killings
What If Libya Staged a Revolution and Nobody Came?
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/02/17/what_if_libya_staged_a_revolution_and_nobody_came? page=0,0
BJJ-Blue
02-28-2011, 07:58 AM
why is obama being so tame here... just call for his head already... he is an enemy who has done intentional harm to americans and others alike... gut him already...
And then he wonders why a large percentage of Americans thinks he's a Muslim.
Again, he told a long-time ally who negotiated at the bargaining table with Israel it was time to step down when he faced protests. But then the radical, terrorist supporting, 'Death to America' screaming, madman who is murdering his own people isn't being asked to step down. Come on you liberals who voted for him, answer this, why the double-standard?
i see you conveniently skipped over my answer to your `who is better`question... whats wrong??? facts arent jiving with your preconceptions???
a little bit of research clearly shows your assumption to be false... you can have that opinion all you want, but it will never be the truth no matter how bad you wish for it or want it to be true...
i can name ten countries that have comparable or better standards of living just off the top of my head... if i actually looked into it some more im sure i would find more...
BJJ-Blue
02-28-2011, 12:49 PM
i see you conveniently skipped over my answer to your `who is better`question... whats wrong??? facts arent jiving with your preconceptions???
a little bit of research clearly shows your assumption to be false... you can have that opinion all you want, but it will never be the truth no matter how bad you wish for it or want it to be true...
i can name ten countries that have comparable or better standards of living just off the top of my head... if i actually looked into it some more im sure i would find more...
Not at all. I said name a better country, and you didn't. Sure, you named certain WAYS some countries are better (when I had already said we were not perfect), but I meant once you factor EVERYTHING in. So, when EVERYTHING is considered, name a better country.
Not at all. I said name a better country, and you didn't. Sure, you named certain WAYS some countries are better (when I had already said we were not perfect), but I meant once you factor EVERYTHING in. So, when EVERYTHING is considered, name a better country.
how bout you tell me why the US is a better place to live than switzerland, denmark, norway etc etc... rather than me making a massive list about like ten countries and why they are good...
canada is better... we have everything you have and we let you foot the bill for security... our banks are more insulated and thats why canadians arent losing their homes like the sates and can still get a loan... anyone can get adequate health care and if you can afford it you can do even better... our public education system produces far better numbers than yours and we have far more cohesion between our political parties... there... your turn GO....
and denmark is better than canada.... switzerland is better than denmark... and so on... so where does that leave you??? holding a hallowed document that has been p1ssed on by half the leaders since it was written... thats where... no the US isnt perfect... and you are slipping down a hole and you cant even see it because you are so blinded by pride... canadians never flee canada to the US for safe harbor from persecution and trampled personal liberties... how many americans come here to escape america tho...??? TONS...
ofcourse i dont like the word better... better for me, sure... but better is a very subjective word...
Lucas
02-28-2011, 02:03 PM
meh. we have better and more celebrities. everyone knows a country is only as good as its accumulation of famous people. :D
...i kid i kid... :p
meh. we have better and more celebrities. everyone knows a country is only as good as its accumulation of famous people. :D
...i kid i kid... :p
HEY... we have justin beiber and avril lavigne... so there....!!!
cant forget alan thicke ;) biggest star EVER!!!!!!!!
Lucas
02-28-2011, 02:42 PM
thats ok, we got lots more of hot famous chicks with the badunkadunkmmmliciousbooty...beat that.
:p
BJJ-Blue
02-28-2011, 03:15 PM
how bout you tell me why the US is a better place to live than switzerland, denmark, norway etc etc... rather than me making a massive list about like ten countries and why they are good...
I just said name a better country, not name one with a better standard of living.
We are the best for many reasons. We are the richest nation on Earth (or at least we were til the Great Society bled us dry). We feed the world, no one else gives near the foreign aid we do. We fought two World Wars and never took any land, except the land to bury our dead. We have so many innovations/inventions, it's not even close. Semiconductors, the assembly line, electricity, the circuit breaker, vulcanized rubber, anasthesia, gas masks, toilet paper, DNA computing, the flight simulator, chemotherapy, the telephone, the light bulb, and nuclear power just to name a few. We have the best doctors on the planet, sick rich people of many nations come here when they need the best care (just ask Canada :D). We are the "Beacon of Freedom", we've welcomed more immigrants than any other nation.
And we did all that in a short period of time. We are one of the youngest nations in the world, yet we lead it in so many ways. That right there ought to tell you something.
I just said name a better country, not name one with a better standard of living.
We are the best for many reasons. We are the richest nation on Earth (or at least we were til the Great Society bled us dry). We feed the world, no one else gives near the foreign aid we do. We fought two World Wars and never took any land, except the land to bury our dead. We have so many innovations/inventions, it's not even close. Semiconductors, the assembly line, electricity, the circuit breaker, vulcanized rubber, anasthesia, gas masks, toilet paper, DNA computing, the flight simulator, chemotherapy, the telephone, the light bulb, and nuclear power just to name a few. We have the best doctors on the planet, sick rich people of many nations come here when they need the best care (just ask Canada :D). We are the "Beacon of Freedom", we've welcomed more immigrants than any other nation.
And we did all that in a short period of time. We are one of the youngest nations in the world, yet we lead it in so many ways. That right there ought to tell you something.
and you wonder why an american needs to sew a canadian patch to thier bags to not get victimized... must be cause theyre jealous... lol... your list is laughable... to take credit for things like nuclear power and semiconductors is especially funny...
but whatever... i dont wanna get into who created what debate... you think ur awesome, the cats ass... i get it...
lets talk about cairo now...
or better yet, libya...
how long do you guys think gadaffi has??? i say two weeks MAX... any bets? but then i havent seen any news about it yet today... he could be dead for all i know...
BJJ-Blue
02-28-2011, 04:11 PM
must be cause theyre jealous...
That, or just plain greed. They are either jealous we have all we have, or they are so greedy they despise us for not giving more than we already do.
lol... your list is laughable... to take credit for things like nuclear power and semiconductors is especially funny...
My list is true. And whats so funny about those? Those are major inventions.
but whatever... i dont wanna get into who created what debate... you think ur awesome, the cats ass... i get it...
No, I just want you to name a better country like you said you could.
or better yet, libya...
So where is Obama? This is right up his alley, community organizing on a grand scale!
Hardwork108
02-28-2011, 04:33 PM
No, I just want you to name a better country like you said you could.
To be honest. A better country, or the best place to live, is subjective. Personally speaking, I am happy living here in Colombia. I would also have absolutely no problem going back to live in Rio de Janeiro. Infact that will probably happen, sooner, rather than later. Then there is my own country, which is on the top of my list.
There are a lot of positive aspects about the US, but even you must admit it is becoming increasingly a surveillance society, where the government will use any excuse to spy on its own people.
The credit culture that many people are indoctrinated into is not a healthy thing either.
Another problem is the extortionate taxation system, who some, including "Republicans", say is unconstitutional. On the same note, the Constitutionality of the PRIVATELY owned Federal Reserve, is in question as well, in a country where the Constitution gives the right of the printing of the currency to the government itself, therefore eliminating the need to have another institution print it for you and then lend it to you, for which the US public have to be taxed to pay interest on.
Anyway, going back to my point. The best place to live depend on ones own social/cultural, political and geographical preferences.
yeah its very subjective... blue doesnt get that... he thinks better is what he defines as better... his values... his knowledge base... him him him... selfish...
anyways... ENOUGH....!!!
this is a cairo thread... stop turning everything into a community organizer insult... dont even respond to this, drop it... LIBYA is the topic now...
BJJ-Blue
03-01-2011, 07:55 AM
stop turning everything into a community organizer insult... dont even respond to this, drop it... LIBYA is the topic now...
I won't drop it. He is a community organizer and he is refusing to help a community that is oppressed,d emanding freedom, and being slaughtered in the streets. Does he only pick-and-choose what communities to organize and demand justice for?
MasterKiller
03-01-2011, 08:04 AM
I won't drop it. He is a community organizer and he is refusing to help a community that is oppressed,d emanding freedom, and being slaughtered in the streets. Does he only pick-and-choose what communities to organize and demand justice for?
LOL! Like Bush hand-picked which "evil dictator" we should eradicate?
BJJ-Blue
03-01-2011, 08:19 AM
LOL! Like Bush hand-picked which "evil dictator" we should eradicate?
No, he got himself picked. When you thumb your nose at the world by openly breaking the treaty you signed and when you brag about paying suicide bombers families among other things, you can reasonably expect to get removed from office and/or society.
BJJ-Blue
03-01-2011, 08:22 AM
LOL! Like Bush hand-picked which "evil dictator" we should eradicate?
And it's apples and oranges. Sure, Bush used military force. I'm just asking why the community organizer won't help support a community that is organizing to fight a dictator. No one is asking the community organizer to send military forces into Libya to remove Kaddafy or to "eradicate" him. Matter of fact, I believe the rebels openly stated they did not want foreign troops in Libya. Correct me if I got that one incorrect though, I heard only the tail end of a news story saying that.
David Jamieson
03-01-2011, 08:32 AM
lol, 1bad bjj is trying to go off topic because he doesn't want to touch on the subject that it was Bush and Blair who brought Ghadaffi back into the fold despite him being a terrorist sponsor for years and only to bring him in line with their mantra on Iran and only after giving him guns and money.
P.S 1bad, I can get on and off a train in my country without some zealot minimum wage jerk off feeling up my junk. Apparently that's not true of your country, so as far as being free from unreasonable searches, so far Canada is better than the USA.
Also, I can go to the hospital, get treatment and surgery and not have to worry about living in poverty for the rest of my life to pay my medical bills. Canada is still better than the USA in that respect. So, again, I live in a better country.
In fact, I'd venture to say that in the last 10 years, Americans have lost a great deal of freedom and liberty that can be had in Canada.
So, I can think of at least one country better than yours. But if I put my mind to it, I'm sure i could come up with a few more. :)
BJJ-Blue
03-01-2011, 11:52 AM
lol, 1bad bjj is trying to go off topic because he doesn't want to touch on the subject that it was Bush and Blair who brought Ghadaffi back into the fold despite him being a terrorist sponsor for years and only to bring him in line with their mantra on Iran and only after giving him guns and money.
How so? I don't recall Bush making concessions for him. I can't speak for Blair though.
P.S 1bad, I can get on and off a train in my country without some zealot minimum wage jerk off feeling up my junk. Apparently that's not true of your country, so as far as being free from unreasonable searches, so far Canada is better than the USA.
That's a whole other topic, but I bet we agree on it more than disagree. I will say I hope it remains that way up there for you, but you never know who the radical Muslims will murder next. And to them, ANYONE who is not Muslim is a viable target. Again though, I hope you guys are not targetted.
A
lso, I can go to the hospital, get treatment and surgery and not have to worry about living in poverty for the rest of my life to pay my medical bills. Canada is still better than the USA in that respect. So, again, I live in a better country.
And you guys pay more in taxes than we do. And when your rich people and Government officials :D, get sick, they always come here for the best treatments.
In fact, I'd venture to say that in the last 10 years, Americans have lost a great deal of freedom and liberty that can be had in Canada.
I completely agree that we have lost freedom. However, we still have more freedom of speech than you guys do.
o, I can think of at least one country better than yours. But if I put my mind to it, I'm sure i could come up with a few more. :)
In some ways, you can say just about ANY country is better than we are. But again, it's the whole I'm talking about. We've invented more than you guys, we have better doctors, and we give more in foreign aid than you guys do, for example.
David Jamieson
03-01-2011, 02:05 PM
Well, the afghans apparently have better war fighters than you or me.
How's that grab ya? lol
MasterKiller
03-01-2011, 02:39 PM
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/LibyaBlogOutsde.jpg
I won't drop it. He is a community organizer and he is refusing to help a community that is oppressed,d emanding freedom, and being slaughtered in the streets. Does he only pick-and-choose what communities to organize and demand justice for?
they dont want your help man... they have been very clear about the fact they dont want any outside interferance... the only thing they ask the international community to do is create a no fly zone to keep gadaffi from bringing in international help... they want to do this alone... its typical american arrogance from people like you that assume they need, or even want your help... the average libyan response to you would be a simple`go fukc yourself and leave us alone you vulture... they dont care about your or abamas opinion... they dont want your support...
BJJ-Blue
03-01-2011, 03:21 PM
Well if they want a no-fly zone enforced, that's asking for help.
My point wasn't how much (if any) material/military/monetary support the community organizer should give, it was why the moment the protests started why didn't he call for Kaddafy to resign as he did Mubarak.
Well if they want a no-fly zone enforced, that's asking for help.
My point wasn't how much (if any) material/military/monetary support the community organizer should give, it was why the moment the protests started why didn't he call for Kaddafy to resign as he did Mubarak.
none... zero... obama shouldnt have any part of this... the UN should create a no fly zone and thats simply to keep international mercenaries out... a no fly zone is free and easy... all it takes is a simple vote...
and why bother calling for him to resign??? what will that do... with egypt there was a chance that a US request could result in a stepping down, and in a way it did... but libya is different... gadaffi wont listen no matter what... why bother??? it would be an empty statement and they all know it... so why waste the time?
Hardwork108
03-01-2011, 08:32 PM
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/LibyaBlogOutsde.jpg
That is really funny, as it was FOREIGN (read CIA and MI6) intervention that started the whole d@mn thing, like it in Egypt, Tunisia and elsewhere.
So, I guess what they are saying is, "no VISIBLE foreign intervention, just keep sending us money and show us how to cause social unrest and destablization".....;)
Of course, the powers that be will continue sending "help" and if successful in regime change, they will make sure the new leader who they have prepared before hand will replace the old one and will then continue being a puppet and further their NWO agenda, while the rest of you will bask in the "success" and power of "Democracy".....
http://abcnews.go.com/Archives/video/jan-27-1989-barbara-walters-interviews-gadhafi-12966961
Jan. 27, 1989: Barbara Walters Interviews Gadhafi
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