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GeneChing
02-04-2011, 11:13 AM
Check out our March April 2011 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=944) issue for Evidence-Based Tai Chi and Qigong By Kevin Ott. Dr. Yang Yang, author of Taijiquan - The Art of Nurturing, The Science of Power, has developed and trademarked Evidence-Based Taiji (EBT)(tm). Anyone worked with it yet?

Here's his website (http://www.chentaiji.com/).

Lucas
02-04-2011, 11:43 AM
Some great Q&A/Articles on his site.

When did you come to realize that Taiji would become an integral part of your life?
One of the symptoms of my heart defect was that, during the winter time, I could not keep my body warm. At night time, I would have to stay with my father and brother. The Chinese doctors said that my Qi was not strong and could not reach the extreme of my body. After I began to practice Taiji, I could feel my body getting warmer and warmer. Such a big improvement is perhaps not so obviously manifest in those practitioners who begin the study of Taiji in relatively good health. Eventually, I became much stronger. Where before I was much too weak, I was now able to play sports with other children. I remember especially wrestling with larger boys, something that would have been impossible before. This made me more and more confident. In 1977, I passed a physical check up, which was a prerequisite for entrance into the university. By that time, all symptoms of my congenital heart defect were gone. This was quite fortunate for me. If the doctors giving me the physical exam had detected a heart condition, I would not have been allowed to attend college. Taiji practice is what cured my poor physical condition, and allowed me to pursue studies at the university. At that time I realized what a miracle Taiji is, and decided to devote my whole life to studying and sharing this treasure with other people.


As you know, Taiji is very popular nowadays. It seems, however, that a great number of people practice only the form. Do you feel that any real benefits can be derived from this kind of practice?
People practice Taiji for mental and physical health and self defense. Taiji training is a system. It should cover qigong, forms, silk-reeling, pushhands, and weapons. For different reasons, some only receive or practice a part of the complete training. A good example is those who only practice forms. If practiced correctly, forms can build the connection between mind and body, improve flexibility and balance, and cultivate internal energy to a certain degree. However, form practice is much more efficient when combined with other parts of the system. We are living in a very fast-paced society. Our time is limited everyday. To get the most from the time we have to practice, we need a better training package. A Chinese saying illustrates this point well: "Shi ban gong bei", which, roughly translated, means if you practice something the best possible way, you need only spend half the time to learn it well. This is my goal in my workshops around the country: to introduce the whole training system to Taiji practitioners. It has been well received.

taai gihk yahn
02-04-2011, 09:37 PM
Check out our March April 2011 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=944) issue for Evidence-Based Tai Chi and Qigong By Kevin Ott. Dr. Yang Yang, author of Taijiquan - The Art of Nurturing, The Science of Power, has developed and trademarked Evidence-Based Taiji (EBT)(tm). Anyone worked with it yet?

Here's his website (http://www.chentaiji.com/).

No, but I met Dr. Yang when he visited my teacher's home in NY - he is a very gracious and thoughtful individual, and has applied a much-needed critical eye towards the contemporary practice of taiji; he is specifically interested in bringing the practice to healthcare professionals in a manner that they can utilize it within the current climate of healthcare provision; his credentials are first-rate and I have a great deal of respect for this man for moving the art forward into the 21st century;

Three Harmonies
02-05-2011, 09:06 AM
"Evidence" of what? It is good for you? Duh!?!? Any kind of exercise is beneficial to people.

mawali
02-05-2011, 10:14 AM
Check out our March April 2011 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=944) issue for Evidence-Based Tai Chi and Qigong By Kevin Ott. Dr. Yang Yang, author of Taijiquan - The Art of Nurturing, The Science of Power, has developed and trademarked Evidence-Based Taiji (EBT)(tm). Anyone worked with it yet?

Here's his website (http://www.chentaiji.com/).

He discovered a niche market in which to project taijiquan into the health and wellness marketplace and it is great! It is a lot better than the present pajama playing performance game of illusion, puffery and wudoneit!

GeneChing
02-07-2011, 02:56 PM
In the end, Yang Yang offers an overview of academic research on qigong and taiji, mostly medical journal publications. Surely, it's a little dated now, but at the time of publication, it was one of the most comprehensive lists of scholarly publications. He's published a few scholarly research articles himself. The news article that's appearing in our magazine now (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=944) highlights Dr. Yang's recent presentation at the 2010 Annual Conference for Integrative Oncology.

We'll have more on this coming this week. Stay tuned.

taai gihk yahn
02-07-2011, 07:47 PM
"Evidence" of what? It is good for you? Duh!?!? Any kind of exercise is beneficial to people.

Dr. Yang has an understanding of what sort of research is required in order for a modality like taiji to be accepted by the mainstream medical community; like it or not, it's the way thing work in this day and age, and Dr. Yang has made significant inroads into the PM&R / PT community as a result of his work, which includes being able to get reimbursement for said modality by insurance companies and Medicare. Instead of being a smart-asz, know-it-all, maybe you could try to appreciate what he is trying to do from a slightly less condescending perspective.

Three Harmonies
02-08-2011, 08:03 AM
You would think with all your Taiji training your blood pressure would be lower!! ;)
I am not being condescending. I honestly want to know what is the "evidence?" I do not begrudge any many his success. Good for Yang Yang if he has figured out a way to bleed money back out of the insurance companies!

GeneChing
02-08-2011, 11:34 AM
Because for just a second, I thought I was reading the WC forum. :rolleyes: So much peng, so little lu...

@ Three Harmonies
Take a look at Dr. Yang Yang's Curriculum Vitae (http://www.chentaiji.com/articles/Dr_Yang_CV.pdf) (it is posted on his site, which I posted above). It lists his publications in academic journals. I'm sure if you chase those down, you'll find the 'evidence' in question. Dr. Yang has done a lot of fine research in the effects of taiji, especially in regards to geriatric issues. I salute his efforts.

GeneChing
02-08-2011, 02:46 PM
Check out As Minds Open, Taiji and Qigong Gain Ground in Western Medicine: An Interview with Master Yang Yang, Ph.D. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=946) by Dan Ferberm just posted on our e-zine.

:cool:

YouKnowWho
02-08-2011, 03:30 PM
If you do longfist in slow motion, you will get the same benefit as you can get from Taiji. What Taiji cannot give you is the flexibility, endurance, and body alignment. If you can punch right hand and kick left leg at the same time (this kind of challenge does not exist in Taiji), you will have great body coordination. If you can bend your head down and kick your leg up (this kind of challenge also does not exist in Taiji), you will have great flexibility and single leg balance. Taiji for health is just far from sufficient. Taiji is my first style. I learned it when I was 7 years old. But Taiji will be the last style that I will use for "health" purpose for the reason that I have just described. I prefer to run 5 miles to make my heart strong and sweat at the same time.

Three Harmonies
02-09-2011, 08:35 AM
YKW
While I agree with your statement about doing LF slow, you are completely wrong with the rest of your post! I urge you to seek out Cartmell's latest projects on Sun Taiji (DVD and book) as the majority of said publications spend time on proper alignment, structure and posture.
As for Taiji's applicability... that responsibility lies solely in the teachers hands. Taiji is a martial art, always has been. But if ones teacher does not teach the martial side of things then that is the fault of the teacher, not the art.

Gene
Thanks. I was just hoping someone could encapsulate the evidence since it was mentioned in the header of the thread and no one really has stated what has been "proven."

JAB

Water-quan
02-09-2011, 09:22 AM
Because for just a second, I thought I was reading the WC forum. :rolleyes: So much peng, so little lu...

@ Three Harmonies
Take a look at Dr. Yang Yang's Curriculum Vitae (http://www.chentaiji.com/articles/Dr_Yang_CV.pdf) (it is posted on his site, which I posted above). It lists his publications in academic journals. I'm sure if you chase those down, you'll find the 'evidence' in question. Dr. Yang has done a lot of fine research in the effects of taiji, especially in regards to geriatric issues. I salute his efforts.

Interesting to note that, in line with the old joke, he really does have a BS.

Also very interesting to note that he's not an MD, and that he went from an MS in economics to a Ph D in kinesiology.

His only actual 'medical' sounding qualification is his Ph D in which, despite having no medical or physical science qualifications, he studied Tai Chi - or did he?

It says he studied quantitative and qualitative research regarding tai chi - which, given he had a social science MS, sounds more like he researched the research practices used to assess tai chi. It sounds deeply unusual that he got a Ph D 'in' Kinesiology - deeply suspicious, in fact, given his previous total lack of medical science, physiology background. It just doesn't add up or ring true.

Scott R. Brown
02-09-2011, 10:18 AM
I don't know....I think you are reaching here!

All you have to do is go back and take your anatomy, physiology, biology, bio-mechanics etc.

If you got the degree, you took the classes to get it!

Are you implying he has a phony degree? If so, please present some evidence to support your position. Otherwise, you don't appear to know what you are talking about!

Water-quan
02-09-2011, 11:19 AM
I don't know....I think you are reaching here!

All you have to do is go back and take your anatomy, physiology, biology, bio-mechanics etc.

If you got the degree, you took the classes to get it!

Are you implying he has a phony degree? If so, please present some evidence to support your position. Otherwise, you don't appear to know what you are talking about!

Actually, it's quite a leap, from post graduate economics to a natural science/biology based degree. From economics to sociology, or another social science, sure, but not to kinesiology.

To suggest that all one would need to do is take a few 'catch up' classes is a ridiculous statement. As economics and biologyhave exactly zero cross over, one would need to go back to undergraduate level and work through again. You are insulting the intelligence of people reading this thread to suggest such a ridiculous thing as he just had to do a few catch up classes.

You obviously have zero knowledge of post graduate research - because it would be simply impossible for a natural science faculty to accept a research proposal from someone with no academic back ground in that field - it just wouldn't make any sense - how could they? Can youimagine him being quizzed by his research supervisors? "So what do you know about biology?" Er... I know about kondratieff waves...

I don't think his Ph. D. is phoney - or, I have no evidence for that. I rather suspect that his Ph. D. is a social science degree in which he studied, as he actually states if you'd bothered to check, the methodoloy used by other people researching tai chi.

I rather suspect that for business purposes, he's just smudged what his Ph. D. is actually in. He probably does have extensive knowledge of tai chi research - but I think it should be becoming fairly obvious that he's actually not formally qualified to assess medical data.

As for 'all he had to do is take a few classes' - you're just making stuff up. Common sense tells you his Ph. D can't be in a biological science if he has no background in that field.

Water-quan
02-09-2011, 11:23 AM
If you got the degree, you took the classes to get it!

Are you implying he has a phony degree? If so, please present some evidence to

Ah - I understand now - you don't know what a research degree is, which is fair enough - easy enough mistake. A Ph. D. isn't a taught degree in most cases - it's a research degree, overseen by a research commitee; i.e. , if you're thinking he decided to do a Ph. D. 'in' kinesiology and then took classes, like an under graduate or Masters, then you're on the wrong track - you can see that just by reading about his research.

So, no - he didn't just take classes - that's not how a Ph. D. works. And, it's a self fulfilling argument to say that as he says he got the degree, he must genuinely have taken classes. No.

Water-quan
02-09-2011, 11:28 AM
The problem with all such 'scientific' studies is, if they're sceintific then they really need to be contrasted to a couple of control groups - one, a group of people who don't do any exercise, and another one that does something like dance, or pilates.

In most cases, I think it makes fairly common sense that any moderate activity for the elderly or people who otherwise don't exercise, can have alot of benefits - mentally as well as physically. Just getting out and meeting people, or having a new interest, can have benefits.

RAF
02-09-2011, 01:22 PM
The information is 3 years past, he has done more.

Background: Ph.D. in Economics, law degree from China, and Ph.D. in Kinesiology. Different programs, different admissions, different courses, different research.

He is one of the finest persons in the martial arts community that I have ever met.

http://www.chentaiji.com/research/CTS_EBTstudies.pdf

Dr. Yang's Evidence-Based Taiji (EBTTM) and Qigong Program

August 2008

Dr. Yang Yang’s EBT program is the product of his lifelong traditional training and teaching
experience and research conducted over the course of his doctoral work in Kinesiology at the University of Illinois. The program was refined for participation by healthy older adults through the experience of several longitudinal pilot studies and a randomized controlled trial (RCT), and was successfully adopted for use in another RCT by persons with early dementia. Five papers have been published in the scientific peer reviewed literature that have used Dr. Yang Yang’s EBT program. All of the papers are of controlled, longitudinal studies, and two were fully randomized controlled trials (RCTs). A sixth paper concerning qualitative methods of analysis of holistic mind/body/spirit benefits is currently under final review before publication.

Following is an abstract summary of these papers. The studies conclude that the EBT program is effective for healthy older adults for:

• lower body strength
• force control (a neurological function)
• improved functional balance
• improved vestibular function (a mechanism of improved balance)
• improved immune function (response to flu vaccine)
• complex, holistic benefits combining five dimensions of experience: physical, mental,
emotional, social and spiritual

Dr. Yang Yang’s comments on additional significance of the findings are also included in each of the abstract summaries listed below. The study on persons with early dementia was a multimodal intervention which included Taiji exercises, cognitive-behavioral therapies, and a support group. This study reports significant improvements in mental ability and self-esteem, but due to the study design it is not possible to discern which, or to what extent, the different intervention modalities contributed to these benefits.
The CTS remains committed to conducting research on Taiji and Qigong. A RCT is currently being planned in partnership with the Mayo Clinic to evaluate the efficacy of EBT for cardiovascular rehabilitation.

Study #1. Taiji Training Improves Knee Extensor Strength and Force Control in Older Adults
Evangelos A. Christou, Yang Yang and Karl S. Rosengren
The Journals of Gerontology Series A: Biological Sciences and Medical Sciences 58:M763-M766 (2003)

Study #2. Effect of combined Taiji and Qigong training on balance mechanisms: a randomized
controlled trial of older adults.
Yang Y, Verkuilen JV, Rosengren KS, Grubisich SA, Reed MR, Hsiao-Wecksler ET.
Med Sci Monit. 2007 Dec;13(12):LE19-20.

Study #3. The Effect of Taiji (T’ai Chi)/Qigong (Ch’i Kung) on Balance in Older Adults.
Yang Y, Verkuilen J, Grubisich S, Reed M, Rosengren K.
Carle Selected Papers 2007;50(2):8-18

Study #4. Effects of a Taiji and Qigong Intervention on the Antibody Response to Influenza
Vaccine in Older Adults
Yang Yang,*, Jay Verkuilen, Karl S. Rosengren,,Rachel A. Mariani,
Michael Reed, Scott A. Grubisich and Jeffrey A.Woods
Am J Chin Med. 2007;35(4):597-607

Study #5. The Effects of a Multimodal Intervention on Outcomes of Persons with Early Stage
Dementia
Burgener SC, Yang Y, Gilbert R, Marsh-Yant S.
Am J Alzheimers Dis Other Demen. 2008: 23(4): 382–394.

Study #6. My Life Is Now My Art: Subjective Experiences of Older Adults Practicing Taiji and Qigong
Yang, Y., DeCelle, S., Reed, M., Rosengren, K., Schlagal, R., and Greene, J.
2008: (under review).
Abstract

Previous Taiji research has demonstrated that a very high proportion of participants continue to practice Taiji after an intervention has ended. Yet there have been few previous qualitative studies investigating the nature of participants’ subjective perceptions and experiences in order to explore what might be motivating them to persist. This article presents a qualitative study of a 6-¬month Taiji (T’ai Chi)/Qigong (Ch’i Kung) intervention for older adults. The researchers conducted in-depth interviews of selected participants who elected to continue practicing Taiji to explore their motivations and their subjective experiences of Taiji’s effects. Our goals were to
investigate participants’ experiences and to create an overall framework that well captured the meaningfulness of these experiences. Our findings indicate that these participants derived a wide variety of perceived benefits, the most meaningful being a felt sense of body-mind-spirit integration. Our results suggest that qualitative studies can play a uniquely important role in Taiji and Qigong research.

Dr. Yang Yang comments:

The participants interviewed for this study reported not only simple physical or mental benefits, but also complex, holistic outcomes combining five dimensions of experience: physical, mental, emotional, social and spiritual. We conceived a Lotus diagram model to visually represent these experiences in layers of increasing complexity: simple, complex, immersion (where the relevance of TQ permeates many aspects of life), and integration (where TQ is perceived as a transforming experience yielding positive lifestyle changes).
Here are two examples of participants’ quotes exhibiting integration of Taiji into life

RAF
02-09-2011, 01:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jr_spGKGhk

3:37 trailer for Dr. Yang Yang's Evidence-Based Taiji (EBT) and Qigong Program DVD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeA_OKqqBJ4&feature=related

Lecture on Evidenced based medicine--James McCormack and Bob Ragno describe the final days of King Charles II. From the Therapeutics Initiative based at UBC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWeNXx9RJDw&feature=related

This short excerpt features Dr Amanda Burls from the University of Oxford's Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM) talking about the interpretation of clinical trial results for evidence-based practice.

SenseiShellie
02-09-2011, 01:42 PM
You guys should check this out. This is being done thru the University of California, Irvine campus. My friend actually works with Dr. Lin and I have been to the lab when they hook up Chen Zhenglai to all the instruments and have him do Taiji! It's really cool!

http://mindbodylab.bio.uci.edu/

RAF
02-09-2011, 01:48 PM
Authors and Disclosures
Journalist

Steve Stiles

Steve Stiles is a journalist for Medscape. He has been reporting on cardiovascular medicine since 1984 and for the past 3 years has been a journalist for theheart.org, part of the WebMD Professional Network. Steve is a graduate of Kenyon College and has an MS from the journalism department at Boston University. He can be contacted at SStiles@webmd.net.

From Heartwire

Tai Chi Terrific for Quality of Life in HF, Maybe a Toehold on Higher-Intensity Exercise

Steve Stiles

September 15, 2010 (San Diego, California) — Patients with mostly mild to moderate heart failure in a randomized trial showed significant quality-of-life gains following three months of twice-weekly classes in tai chi, a martial art that millions of Chinese routinely practice for regular low-intensity exercise, spiritual well-being, and sense of community [1]. They also gained confidence and initiative regarding other, higher-intensity exercises.
Patients in the tai chi classes failed to show significant functional improvements or reduced natriuretic peptides compared with those taking the same number and frequency of conventional heart-failure education classes, although there were promising trends, observed Dr Gloria Yeh (Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, MA) when presenting the study here at the Heart Failure Society of America (HFSA) 2010 Scientific Meeting.

"There's a bit of a disconnect between our finding improvements in quality of life, mood, perception of being able to do more, and feeling better, vs [no significant improvement in] exercise performance measured by six-minute walk or [peak VO2] on a bicycle exercise test," Yeh observed for heartwire .

"But having said that, we did see some change in six-minute-walk distance. It didn't reach significance between the two groups, but there was actually a 35-m improvement in the tai chi group over the 12 weeks of the study. So something did happen. And our other measures said they at least perceived that they were doing more."
Speculating, Yeh asked, "Is it more important how people feel and what they perceive they can do on a day-to-day basis or what we can actually measure with some tests in the hospital?" She proposed that some quality-of-life measures "may be at least as important" as some more objective end points in heart failure.
Or as she put it in the formal conclusion of her study, "A narrow focus on measured exercise performance may underestimate the impact of integrated interventions such as tai chi."

Is it more important how people feel and what they perceive they can do on a day-to-day basis, or what we can actually measure with some tests in the hospital?

After Yeh's presentation of the trial, called New Exercise Tai Chi and Heart Health Education (NEXT-HEART), discussant Dr Ileana L Piña (Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH) agreed that the nonsignificant gains in six-minute-walk distance and peak VO2 observed in the tai chi group might have crossed into significance had there been more than 100 patients in all. She (and Yeh) pointed out the difficulties in quantifying effects of low-level exercise. But Piña said that based on other studies of exercise in heart failure and the metabolic equivalents (METs) likely achieved by the tai chi group, it would be expected that six-minute-walk distances would go up. Their gains in quality of life, however, were "dramatic."

The trial evenly randomized 100 patients with chronic NYHA class 1–3 heart failure and an LVEF <40% to take the 12-week series of tai chi classes or attend, on exactly the same schedule, classes based on the HFSA patient-education modules covering diet, exercise, medications, and other aspects of self-management; they (and the tai chi group) were also given the educational materials for use at home.
The tai chi group learned a modified Yang style of the discipline, including five basic movements, which were characteristically "slow and purposeful," with an emphasis on weight shifting, balance, "focused mental attention and self-awareness," stretching, warm-up activities, meditation, breathing and relaxation techniques, and guidance on mind-body awareness.

Members of the tai chi group attended three-quarters of the classes, on average, and education controls attended two-thirds of their classes. Tai chi practitioners also reported an average of 10 hours of home practice using a provided instructional video.
After 12 weeks, the tai chi group showed significant improveme

RAF
02-09-2011, 01:53 PM
SenseiShellie--thanks for the source--Chen Zheng Lei.

Concluding piece on Taiji and heart failure:

She pointed to the tai chi group's gains in "exercise self-efficacy" as particularly important to patients with heart failure. "For one reason or another, many of them aren't able or aren't willing to do more conventional forms of exercise. Maybe [tai chi] is less threatening and gets their confidence up so they can do other types of exercise that are a bit more rigorous."

There was support for that trial result that didn't make it into her formal presentation, she said. Responses from both groups to the Community Healthy Activities Model Program for Seniors (CHAMPS) Physical Activity Questionnaire suggested that tai chi participants increased their participation in other physical activities outside of class.

Yeh said she has no relationships to disclose. Piña reports receiving speaker fees or honoraria from Merck and Novartis and being a consultant to or on the advisory board of Sanofi-Aventis and Solvay.

References

1. Yeh G. Tai chi exercise improves quality of life in patients with chronic heart failure in a randomized controlled trial. Heart Failure Society of America 2010 Scientific Meeting; September 13, 2010; San Diego, CA. Late breaking clinical trials 1.

2. Yeh GY, Wood MJ, Lorell BH, et al. Effects of tai chi mind-body movement therapy on functional status and exercise capacity in patients with chronic heart failure: a randomized controlled trial. Am J Med 2004;117: 541-8. Abstract
Heartwire ©

SenseiShellie
02-09-2011, 02:02 PM
SensiShellie--thanks for the source--Chen Zheng Lei.

Opps...sorry...I need to learn to spell :o

Scott R. Brown
02-09-2011, 02:09 PM
To Water Quan:

I am not making a argument against sloppy science.

I think you misunderstand. It is not difficult to go back and take the classes you need to get an advanced degree in another field. All you have to do is take the necessary classes. I know an engineer who became a doctor. I know a nurse who became lawyer. I helped a friend of mine with his MS degree thesis project in Exercise Physiology.

The point is that just because you find it hard to believe that someone would do it, does not mean it hasn't been done, because it has, or that it can't be done, because it has. You are on thin ice here because you are speculating based upon what appears to be a belief he is using lazy science.

In my opinion, a good deal of science is lazy science! That does not mean any particular scientist has not done the necessary work to become a lazy scientist producing lazy work.

RAF
02-09-2011, 02:39 PM
SenseiShellie, I stand corrected--not so much spelling as it is sloppy typing error--need new fingers.

Water-quan
02-09-2011, 03:44 PM
To Water Quan:

I am not making a argument against sloppy science.

I think you misunderstand. It is not difficult to go back and take the classes you need to get an advanced degree in another field. All you have to do is take the necessary classes.

That could happen if there was a very close relationship between subjects, such as between sociology and economics. Otherwise, you're talking absoloute nonsense.




I know an engineer who became a doctor.

You realise it takes upwards of seven years to become a fully qualified doctor?






I know a nurse who became lawyer.

I know an anthropologist who became a lawyer. But you can't just take a few 'catch up' classes to convert a nursing qualification in to a lawyer's qualification - you have to go right back to the start.






I helped a friend of mine with his MS degree thesis project in Exercise Physiology.



?? So what?





The point is that just because you find it hard to believe that someone would do it, does not mean it hasn't been done, because it has,

You're a little confused I think. No - it hasn't been done at all. Your examples are of people who changed professional speciality- something which happens all the time. To do that, those people switched careers and went right back to the start.

Whereas, what we're talking about with this guy is someone whose Masters in Economics is somehow - we're supposed to believe, despite all common sense and practical experience - is supposed to have led to a Ph. D. in a natural science/biology specialisation. That actually hasn't happened at all.

Now, of course, he could go back and do biology at under graduate level, and work his way up - but that still wouldn't be the same as turning an economics MS in to a Ph. D. in biological science. If he could do that, he should have a Ph. D. in miracles.






or that it can't be done, because it has. You are on thin ice here because you are speculating based upon what appears to be a belief he is using lazy science.

In my opinion, a good deal of science is lazy science! That does not mean any particular scientist has not done the necessary work to become a lazy scientist producing lazy work.

I'm not speculating about his lazy science at all. I'm stating that you can't do an MS in economics then a Ph. D. in a biological science. His Ph. D. research might be fine - it might stand up to scrutiny. But if you actuallt bothered to read his resume, you'd see that his research was in to research methods which are used to research tai chi. If youdon't understand that, it means his Ph. D. is actually a social science degree, looking at the methodologies employed by people who research tai chi.

As for thin ice - at least I've not fallen through it.

Water-quan
02-09-2011, 03:58 PM
The information is 3 years past, he has done more.

Background: Ph.D. in Economics, law degree from China, and Ph.D. in Kinesiology. Different programs, different admissions, different courses, different research.


Actually, his CV says MS in economics, not Ph. D. Now, I can believe that he might have a Ph. D. economics - that would make sense.


The statement " Different programs, different admissions, different courses, different research."...

.... is meaningless. You don't follow a programme like an undergraduate to do a Ph. D. - you do advanced research in a specialist field under the supervision of other Ph. D.s.

So - care to explain how someone with an MS in economics comes to have a Ph. D. in kinesiology? Which he doesn't at all, because he clearly says he researched research methods, not tai chi and kinesiology.

So - just to set the facts straight (source - his own CV) - he has a Ph. D. but his research wasn't the kinesiology of tai chi or any such thing; he investigated the qualitative and quantitative methods used to study tai chi. That isn't, actually, a Ph. D. in kinesiology, is it? No. He hasn't actually got a biology based Ph. D. at all, has he? No.

He's got a social science based Ph. D., in which he studied the methodologies of actual kinsiologist and tai chi researchers (source - his own CV, where it states this explicitly), hasn't he? Yes he has.

Scott R. Brown
02-09-2011, 04:00 PM
To Water Quan,

Actually you HAVE fallen through thin ice!

I have been nurse for almost 30 years, so I would say I know how long it takes to become a doctor.

I helped my friend with his MS Thesis project, you implied I didn't know anything about thesis projects to get an advanced degree, THAT is what is what!

You are presuming he just went from his MS to his PhD in an unrelated field without doing any of the background work. Since you and I both know it MUST be done, and since he apparently HAS the PhD, AND there is no evidence you have provided to demonstrate otherwise, he clearly MUST have done the extra work!

THAT is why you WERE on thin ice, and the reason you have fallen through is because you are arguing a lost cause for which you have no evidence, other than your incredulity, to support your assertions.

You cannot demonstrate he hasn't done the work. It is simple as that, however he claims the degree. You must first demonstrate he does not actually possess the degree, which you haven't done.

Your incredulity is NOT EVIDENCE!

taai gihk yahn
02-09-2011, 04:17 PM
It is not difficult to go back and take the classes you need to get an advanced degree in another field.


That could happen if there was a very close relationship between subjects, such as between sociology and economics. Otherwise, you're talking absoloute nonsense.
what we're talking about with this guy is someone whose Masters in Economics is somehow - we're supposed to believe, despite all common sense and practical experience - is supposed to have led to a Ph. D. in a natural science/biology specialisation. That actually hasn't happened at all.

Now, of course, he could go back and do biology at under graduate level, and work his way up - but that still wouldn't be the same as turning an economics MS in to a Ph. D. in biological science. If he could do that, he should have a Ph. D. in miracles.

well, here is the description of the program from which he graduated:

Kinesiology Graduate Programs
The Department of Kinesiology and Community Health graduate program offers graduate study and research leading to a Master of Science and Doctor of Philosophy degree in three major areas of specialization.

Majors Areas of Specialization
Biobehavioral Kinesiology
Faculty examine the impact of sport and physical activity on individuals. This area includes Exercise and Sport Psychology, Biomechanics, Motor Control, and Kinesmetrics

Cultural, Pedagogical, & Interpretive Kinesiology
Faculty examine the interaction between physical activity and the individual from cultural, sociological and pedagogical perspectives.

Exercise Physiology
Exercise Physiology faculty study work output, energy transfer, and movement efficiency. Research in this area strives to better understand the consequences of exercise stress on body systems.
http://kch.illinois.edu/Graduates/Kinesiology/Default.aspx


here are the admission / degree requirements:

Doctor of Philosophy
The Program
Doctor of Philosophy degree candidates pursue an advanced program of study and research in preparation for careers in research and teaching.

Admission Requirements
The minimum of a baccalaureate degree from an accredited institution of higher education
a minimum grade-point average of 3.5 (A=4.0) for the last 60 hours of undergraduate work or 3.5 for all graduate work if entering with a masters degree
official results of the aptitude portions of the Graduate Record Examination (a cumulative score of 1000 on the verbal and quantitative is expected)
three letters of recommendation.
international students must also submit Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL) scores, with a minimum score of 580 on the paper based TOEFL test, 237 on the computer based test, or 92 on the internet-based test (iBT).
students for whom English is not their native language and who wish to be considered for a teaching assistantship must achieve a score of 230 or higher on the Test of spoken English (TSE) or the Speaking Proficiency English Assessment Kit (SPEAK) on versions prior to 1996. A score of 50 or higher on the newer versions.

Degree Requirements
Candidates must complete 96 graduate hours or 64 hours of work beyond the master's degree, including 32 hours of thesis research.
Candidates are required to demonstrate competence in research methodology appropriate to their area of study.
Ph.D. student progress is reviewed at the end of the first year of study.
Ph.D. candidates must successfully complete the preliminary and final doctoral examinations.
http://kch.illinois.edu/Graduates/Kinesiology/PhD.aspx

looking at the first two specializations, it's more than feasible that someone with an MS in econ could get into the program and compete it successfully without having to go back to square one...


addendum:

Kinesmetrics Doctoral Program at UIUC
The major emphasis in the Kinesmetrics doctoral program at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC) is the study of theories underlying measurement, evaluation and statistical models and the extent to which these models can be used in the measurement and evaluation practice in the field of Kinesiology, e.g., assessing motor behaviors and physical activities. Empirical research in measurement and evaluation, statistics, and research design is stressed. Students are expected to become involved in their own scholarly research while they are students in the program. Those who earn a Ph.D. degree will be qualified to continue scholarly research, advise Master's and Doctoral students in the areas of measurement and evaluation, statistics, and research design, as well as teach theory and applied courses in these areas at both the undergraduate and graduate levels.

List Classes required in Kinesmetrics Ph.D. Program
Measurement
Theory (3 units; * required, #strongly recommended) EPSY 520 Counseling Psych Practicum , 1 Unit
EPSY 595A Theories of Measurement (CTT), 1 Unit*
EPSY 595B Theories of Measurement (IRT), 1 Unit*
KIN 401 Measure & Evaluation in Kinesiology, 1 Unit
KIN 594 Special Topics (Grant Writing), 1 Unit*
PSYC 506 Psych
PSYC 509 Psychological Scaling: Multidimensional Methods, 1 Unit #
PSYC 531 Psychological Measurement in Industry, 1 Unit#
SP ED 324 Formal Assessment in Special Education#
Statistics (3 units; *required, #strongly recommended)
CHLH 463 Statistical Techniques in Epidemiological Research, 1 Unit#
EPSY 480 Educational Statistics, 1 Unit
EPSY 580 Statistical Inference in Education, 1 Unit#
EPSY 582 Advanced Statistical Methods in Education, 1 Unit#
EPSY 584 Multivariate Analysis in Psychology and Education, 1 Unit*
EPSY 588 Covariance Structure and Factor Models, 1 Unit*
EPSY 590 Hierarchical Linear Modeling#
SOC 582 Survey Research Methoids II
STAT 424 Analysis of Variance, 1 Unit
STAT 425 Applied Regression and Design, 1 Unit
STAT 426 Sampling and Categorical Data, 1 Unit#
STAT 428 Statistical Computing, 1 Unit
STAT 429 Time Series Analysis, 1 Unit#
STAT 458 Mathematical Modeling in Life, 1 Unit
STAT 510 Mathematical Statistics, I, 1 Unit
STAT 511 Mathematical Statistics, II, 1 Unit
STAT 525 Current Research in Applied and Computational Statistics, 1 Unit#
STAT 571 Multivariate Analysis, 1 Unit
VP 650 Epidemiology, ½ Unit
VP 524 Biostatistics, 1 Unit
Research
Design/Methods (2 units; #strongly recommended) CHLH 578 Applied Epidemiology, 1 Unit#
EPSY 471 Into to Evaluation Methods, 1 Unit
EPSY 577 Foundation of Qualitative Methods, 1 Unit
EPSY 583 Single Subject Research Design, 1 Unit#
KIN 494 Qualitative Research in Education, 1 Unit
KIN 501 Kinesiology Research Methods, 1 Unit
LA 564 Methods of Social/Behav. Research in Designed Environments, 1 Unit
PSYC 332 Research Methods in Social Psychology: Laboratory Method, 1Unit*
PSYC 333 Research Methods in Social Psychology: Natural Settings, 1 Unit*
PSYC 435 Mathematical Formulations in Psychological Theory, 1 Unit
SOC 480 Methods of Field Research, 1 Unit
SOC 481 Survey Research, I, 1 Unit
SOC 488 Demographic Methods, 1 Unit
SOC 582 Survey Research Methods, II, 1 Unit
Computers (#strongly recommended)
CS 110 Programming Laboratory (Section CP), 1 Unit #
CS 225 Data Structure and Software Principles, 1 Unit
CS 300 Data Structure for Noncomputer Majors, 2 hours (1/2 unit)#
EPSY 457 Computer Use in Education, 3 hours, 1 Unit
General Areas
CHLH 540 Health Behavior: Theoretical Perspectives, 1 Unit
KIN 455 Quantitative Analysis of Human Motion, 1 Unit
KIN 459 Physical Activity and Aging, 3 hours, 1 Unit
KIN 590 Independent Study
SHS 593 Special Problems (Research Critics and Grantsmanship), 1 Unit
SP ED 510 Legal Aspects of Disabilities, 1 Unit
Dissertation (*required)
KIN 590 Dissertation research, 8 Units*
http://kch.illinois.edu/Research/Labs/Kinesmetrics/ProgramOverview.aspx

looking at the above, I think someone with an econ MS would have a pretty smooth transitions...not to say that he DID do this particular course of study, but it just makes the point of how it's not much of a stretch to see how he got into the program...

Scott R. Brown
02-09-2011, 04:24 PM
Hmmmmm?????

What to do?? What to do???:confused:

Accept evidence?

Take word of an idiot??

Hmmmmm???

What to do?? What to do???:confused:

taai gihk yahn
02-09-2011, 04:28 PM
Hmmmmm?????

What to do?? What to do???:confused:

Accept evidence?

Take word of an idiot??

Hmmmmm???

What to do?? What to do???:confused:

taking the idiot's word is certainly a lot more interesting...

Scott R. Brown
02-09-2011, 04:32 PM
taking the idiot's word is certainly a lot more interesting...

In that case.......I believe EVERY WORD























you post!!!!!! :D:p

taai gihk yahn
02-09-2011, 04:53 PM
In that case.......I believe EVERY WORD
a wise decision...


you post!!!!!! :D:p
well, if you are me, then I just did...AGAIN!

ShaolinDan
02-09-2011, 05:10 PM
Not commenting at all on the quality of this man's work, but looking over tgy's post, it does indeed seem likely to me that he researched research as water-quan was suggesting...:)

taai gihk yahn
02-09-2011, 05:15 PM
Not commenting at all on the quality of this man's work, but looking over tgy's post, it does indeed seem likely to me that he researched research as wenshu was suggesting...:)

don't know, but at least one of his studies was an RCT, suggesting that he actually researched something other than research itself...

ShaolinDan
02-09-2011, 05:21 PM
oh, yeah, a little bit for sure, he'd have to. I don't think his background hurts his credibility at all, however, I think the suggestion that he didn't really have a medical background appears to be true also.

RAF
02-09-2011, 07:54 PM
http://kch.illinois.edu/


University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

The Department of Kinesiology and Community Health

Improving Health through Physical Activity, Education, Outreach, and Research
Welcome to the Department of Kinesiology and Community Health, a unit within the College of Applied Health Sciences. Our outstanding faculty, students, and staff study all aspects of health, rehabilitation, and human movement from the cell to society. By integrating high quality research, instruction, and outreach programs, faculty scholars within Kinesiology and Community Health are leading interdisciplinary initiatives that promote optimal health for all people of all ages.

We hope that you will take a few moments to visit our website including the new Master of Public Health (MPH) program.


Mission
The Department of Kinesiology and Community Health is an interdisciplinary unit dedicated to the study of health, rehabilitation, and human movement. The advancement and dissemination of knowledge related to health, rehabilitation, and human movement is central to the Department's mission. Faculty in the Department utilize a broad variety of approaches in the integrative study of health, rehabilitation, and human movement, including research themes such as lifespan physical activity, community health, rehabilitation counseling, disability, well-being and inclusion, physical culture and education, pedagogy, human factors, and human performance.

The Department of Kinesiology and Community Health is organized around four concentrations:

Concentrations1.Bio-Behavioral Kinesiology: Faculty in the Bio-Behavioral Kinesiology concentration examine the antecedents and consequences of involvement in physical activity and sport and the impact that physical activity and sport have upon individuals. This area includes Exercise and Sport Psychology, Biomechanics, Motor Control, and Kinesmetrics.
2.Community Health and Rehabilitation: Faculty with specializations in health policy, health education, health behavior, and epidemiology examine a variety of dynamic interactions that impact the overall health of communities. Faculty in rehabilitation examine the impact of disability in the population and the emotional, environmental, vocational, and educational issues surrounding adjustment to disability.
3.Cultural, Pedagogical, & Interpretive Studies: Faculty in the CP&I concentration examine the interaction between physical activity and the individual from a variety of cultural, sociological and pedagogical perspectives. Several faculty study the impact of movement on cultural and social relations, whereas others examine issues related to pedagogy and physical education.
4.Exercise Physiology and Athletic Training: Exercise physiology is the study of work output, energy transfer, and movement efficiency. Research in this area is conducted in order to better understand the consequences of exercise stress on body systems. The athletic training program focuses on the prevention, treatment, and rehabilitation of injuries incurred in physical activity and sport.

Research

Faculty, students, and staff in the Department of Kinesiology and Community Health study all aspects of health, rehabilitation, and human movement across the lifespan. Faculty Research Highlights summarizes some of these projects. Other research exploration includes:

Areas of Studylifespan physical activity
community health
rehabilitation counseling
disability
well-being and inclusion
physical culture and education
pedagogy
human factors
human performance
Current methods include high-quality research and interdisciplinary initiatives.

InitiativesCenter on Health, Aging and Disability
Research Groups and Labs explore many movement-related topics

RAF
02-09-2011, 08:02 PM
His research is not simply on other research. He does experimental work as is evidenced by his publications:

Study #1. Taiji Training Improves Knee Extensor Strength and Force Control in Older AdultsEvangelos A. Christou, Yang Yang and Karl S. Rosengren
The Journals of Gerontology Series A: Biological Sciences and Medical Sciences 58:M763-M766 (2003)

Study #2. Effect of combined Taiji and Qigong training on balance mechanisms: a randomized controlled trial of older adults.Yang Y, Verkuilen JV, Rosengren KS, Grubisich SA, Reed MR, Hsiao-Wecksler ET.
Med Sci Monit. 2007 Dec;13(12):LE19-20.

Study #3. The Effect of Taiji (T’ai Chi)/Qigong (Ch’i Kung) on Balance in Older Adults.
Yang Y, Verkuilen J, Grubisich S, Reed M, Rosengren K.
Carle Selected Papers 2007;50(2):8-18

Study #4. Effects of a Taiji and Qigong Intervention on the Antibody Response to Influenza Vaccine in Older Adults
Yang Yang,*, Jay Verkuilen, Karl S. Rosengren,,Rachel A. Mariani,
Michael Reed, Scott A. Grubisich and Jeffrey A.Woods
Am J Chin Med. 2007;35(4):597-607

Study #5. The Effects of a Multimodal Intervention on Outcomes of Persons with Early Stage Dementia
Burgener SC, Yang Y, Gilbert R, Marsh-Yant S.
Am J Alzheimers Dis Other Demen. 2008: 23(4): 382–394.
__________________________________________________ _________________

His work is interdisciplinary/science based/statistical.

I previously made the mistake of stating that he had a Ph.D. in Economics. Clearly his vita indicates it was an MS in Economics but I do think he was in the Ph.D. program in Economics when he made his switch.

Statistically speaking, I would guess he is pretty savvy regarding experimental methodology and regression analysis. His work is solid and worth considering seriously in light of other research in the "taiji area".

ShaolinDan
02-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Looking back I can see it was easy to misunderstand my post. Apologies.

I did not mean to imply that his professional research was based on research.
I just thought it looked like his phd work seemed more geared toward studying medical research procedure than studying medicine itself. Which of course is all the more reason to trust his research. ;)

Dan Ferber
02-18-2011, 11:57 AM
Water-quan is correct that Dr. Yang trained in economics. He earned a master’s from Illinois State University. Then he switched fields. Between 1998 and 2005 he took the requisite undergraduate and graduate level science courses and went on to earn his doctorate in kinesiology at the University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign, where he worked to document the effects of Taiji and Qigong in seniors.

As for whether Dr. Yang is qualified to assess mind-body research, the kinesiology faculty at the University of Illiinois, which made him an adjunct professor, clearly think so, as do the prestigious institutes and medical centers that have invited him to present his work. For a summary of Dr. Yang’s original research testing the effects of the Evidence-Based Taiji and Qigong system in seniors, see this page (http://www.centerfortaiji.com/research/) from the Center for Taiji Studies’ website. Detailed information on the studies, including abstracts, can be downloaded here (http://www.centerfortaiji.com/research/CTS_EBTstudies.pdf). Some of it has already been posted in this thread.

All the best,

Dan Ferber

mawali
02-22-2011, 11:33 AM
Why the vitriolic attitude?
Dr Yang has stated his qualifications and his educational pedigree is above reproach. He is starting a trend to get away from the master/student worship and attempt to apply the rehabilitative and 'the 'yangsheng' aspect of neigong (yes, I said it) of which taijiquan is part of. How can anyone deny this?

Apparently it is easy from the comments noted and as people are free to show thier 'heart'!

RAF is spot on!
S. Alleyne

RAF
02-23-2011, 11:14 AM
You also don't simply move between doctoral programs in say sociology, economics and/or kinesiology.

Programs like sociology and economics are housed within the College of Arts & Science. Each program has their own admissions requirements--being successful in one program may make it easier to move between programs but prerequisites are still required--e.g. if I had done my doctorate in economics and simply want an "extra" Ph.D. in sociology, one does not simply write a dissertation under faculty in sociology--you apply for admissions into the Ph.D. program in sociology.

If you haven't done any coursework in sociology you then have a lot of catching up to do. You still have qualifying examinations and/or comprehensive examinations, dissertation proposal defense, and the actual defense of the dissertation.

Sometimes there are interdisciplinary programs where you have joint degree programs but I am not aware of any good quality dual Ph.D. programs although it is not uncommon to find law degree and medical degree programs tied jointly to a MBA program There are medical degrees in which you can go through a Ph.D. program jointly because the individual really doesn't want to practice medicine but would rather do research in a medical field.

There is no question regarding Dr. Yang's Ph.D. and research--in the major journals he has published in, they are blind and peer reviewed. It is obvious that he works with a interdisciplinary research team which is quite common in the areas he studies.