View Full Version : Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war
wenshu
02-15-2011, 12:49 PM
Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/15/defector-admits-wmd-lies-iraq-war)
Martin Chulov and Helen Pidd in Karlsruhe
Tuesday 15 February 2011 12.58 GMT
The defector who convinced the White House that Iraq had a secret biological weapons programme has admitted for the first time that he lied about his story, then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war.
Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, codenamed Curveball by German and American intelligence officials who dealt with his claims, has told the Guardian that he fabricated tales of mobile bioweapons trucks and clandestine factories in an attempt to bring down the Saddam Hussein regime, from which he had fled in 1995.
"Maybe I was right, maybe I was not right," he said. "They gave me this chance. I had the chance to fabricate something to topple the regime. I and my sons are proud of that and we are proud that we were the reason to give Iraq the margin of democracy."
The admission comes just after the eighth anniversary of Colin Powell's speech to the United Nations in which the then-US secretary of state relied heavily on lies that Janabi had told the German secret service, the BND. It also follows the release of former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld's memoirs, in which he admitted Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction programme.
The careers of both men were seriously damaged by their use of Janabi's claims, which he now says could have been – and were – discredited well before Powell's landmark speech to the UN on 5 February 2003.
sanjuro_ronin
02-15-2011, 12:52 PM
How many people died during that war?
YouKnowWho
02-15-2011, 01:02 PM
How many people died during that war?
Should we count Iraqi people as human being?
so him admitting this takes some heat off the bush admin huh??? makes you wonder, maybe he's a paid scapegoat... besides, nobody invades a nation based on one mans intelligence report, a defector at that... although it can and probably was used as an excuse to do something that was planned well before the reports... the fact that bush sr went into iraq and then the next rep pres, his son, invaded speaks volumes...
Should we count Iraqi people as human being?
i hope you are TRYING to be ironic... if so youve failed... if not... well... :rolleyes:
MasterKiller
02-15-2011, 01:05 PM
so him admitting this takes some heat off the bush admin huh??? makes you wonder, maybe he's a paid scapegoat... besides, nobody invades a nation based on one mans intelligence report, a defector at that... although it can and probably was used as an excuse to do something that was planned well before the reports... the fact that bush sr went into iraq and then the next rep pres, his son, invaded speaks volumes...
LOL at ONE guy getting the blame for that entire fiasco. They were hell-bent on going into Iraq before 9/11. They just hand-picked the intelligence to back up what they had already decided on doing.
LOL at ONE guy getting the blame for that entire fiasco. They were hell-bent on going into Iraq before 9/11. They just hand-picked the intelligence to back up what they had already decided on doing.
yeah thats pretty much where i was going with that... but you know how they are... like with ollie north, they knew what regan wanted and they knew he didnt care how so they kept the details from him so later on he had plausible deniability... same story here, just one more piece to the "not my fault" puzzle...
wenshu
02-15-2011, 01:43 PM
How many people died during that war?
U.S. military 4,436 dead and 32,009 wounded
“reported" Iraqi deaths between 100,000 - 109,000
Not to mention all the deaths that result from laying waste to an entire nation's infrastructure, (lack of sanitation, lack of potable water, etc. . .).
Good thing to know some people still manage to maintain a healthy sense of humor in the face of adversity:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9Uepu8tTJ3o/R-dAEUcN78I/AAAAAAAABAg/XqQlDv_Hiy4/s400/bush_wmd_joke_lon816_1.jpg
Originally Posted by Syn7
so him admitting this takes some heat off the bush admin huh??? makes you wonder, maybe he's a paid scapegoat... besides, nobody invades a nation based on one mans intelligence report, a defector at that... although it can and probably was used as an excuse to do something that was planned well before the reports... the fact that bush sr went into iraq and then the next rep pres, his son, invaded speaks volumes...
As the article reports, Curveball's spurious claims could have been and probably were discredited before Powell's '03 speech before th U.N. Security Council.
wenshu
02-15-2011, 01:47 PM
like with ollie north, they knew what regan wanted and they knew he didnt care how so they kept the details from him so later on he had plausible deniability.
More like plausible senility.
ZING!
Seriously though, Reagan knew about that **** before he was even elected.
oh i agree... but i was going off ollie norths testimony when he said that... so at the very least thats what happened... but i agree with ya... he knew... he openly lied to the people more than once and knew it... every president has and there is more than enough proof... for some reason it seems to be ok if we find out after they have been replaced...
aside from the awkward pose, whats the joke about the bush pic??? is he lookin for wmd's???
David Jamieson
02-15-2011, 02:15 PM
aside from the awkward pose, whats the joke about the bush pic??? is he lookin for wmd's???
yes, that is indeed what he quipped whilst looking about his office furniture when queried if they had found the wmd's yet.
class act all the way.
as turds go that is. :mad:
BJJ-Blue
02-15-2011, 02:30 PM
They were hell-bent on going into Iraq before 9/11.
Yeah, right.
We had the whole country as ours in 1991 had we wanted it, but we stopped our advance and left. All those 'war for oil' morons tend to forget we had alot of the oil wells under our control in 1991, and yet we gave them back.
David Jamieson
02-15-2011, 02:37 PM
Yeah, right.
We had the whole country as ours in 1991 had we wanted it, but we stopped our advance and left. All those 'war for oil' morons tend to forget we had alot of the oil wells under our control in 1991, and yet we gave them back.
Dude... the moron in question is George W Bush who wanted to go in and take over Iraq as some daddy complex madness apparently because in 1994 when queried as to why they didn't take Iraq in the first Gulf war, **** Cheney stated that there would be a power void and they wouldn't be able to control the outcome.
Here's the interview with him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w75ctsv2oPU
The Gulf War 1 was legit and accomplished it's goals handily and in under 1 week. An impressive effort by the nations together under the UN.
Gulf War 2 a Bush/Blair joint was and is still an incredible failure rife with deception and dishonesty from the Regime of George W Bush who whether you like it or not is considered a war criminal by many.
I personally think he is a criminal as well and should be arrested and brought to justice for his tyranny and what is tantamount to mass murder and war crimes.
I also believe that this will be pursued and in fact is being pursued with the Swiss being the first to make serious steps towards having George W Bush arrested and questioned. Which will never happen in the US because your government and justice system is thoroughly corrupted.
:D eat it.
BJJ-Blue
02-15-2011, 02:57 PM
in 1994 when queried as to why they didn't take Iraq in the first Gulf war, **** Cheney stated that there would be a power void and they wouldn't be able to control the outcome.
You're wrong.
Cheney clearly stated things like "once you took down Saddam Husseins Government, what are you going to put in its place?" and how different countries would have tried to carve up Iraq for themselves. Had we just taken it for ourselves, we wouldn't have had to replace the Gov't there, nor would we have had to worry about anyone else trying to take chunks of our new land. You obviously misunderstood the man.
I personally think he is a criminal as well and should be arrested and brought to justice for his tyranny and what is tantamount to mass murder and war crimes.
And I personally think Nancy Pelosi as well as every Democrat who voted for healthcare without even reading the law they were voting on should be tarred and feathered. what's your point?
I also believe that this will be pursued and in fact is being pursued with the Swiss being the first to make serious steps towards having George W Bush arrested and questioned. Which will never happen in the US because your government and justice system is thoroughly corrupted.
You live in your own little world. The UN voted to allow it because Saddam broke the cease fire agreement he signed in 1991 which allowed the use of force against Iraq if it broke the rules it agreed to. And it broke the rules by throwing out the inspectors. Terrorism, weapons, etc are all moot points anyway. Once Saddam threw the inspectors out we had all the justification needed under international law.
yes, that is indeed what he quipped whilst looking about his office furniture when queried if they had found the wmd's yet.
class act all the way.
as turds go that is. :mad:
OMG REALLY... i was kidding... i said the most offensive thing i could think of, it didnt occur to me that it would be right... it was either that or a f@rt joke... i figured i'd take the intellectual route on that one... thats insane... the fact that he can laugh about it like that is proof that the man is a scumbag waste of skin that doesnt even deserve a last cig before he takes one in the back of the head...
edit:
why is f@rt censored???????? vBulletin® is trash...
:D eat it.
"blues got the muffin EAT IT blues got the muffin EEAAAT IT"
sorry:D had a De La flashback... Buhloone Mindstate... De La's best effort by far...
nor would we have had to worry about anyone else trying to take chunks of our new land.
dude... wtf is wrong with you...??? do you really believe you have the right to invade anyone and take what you want??? how do you justify that??? you will take a whole nation for the actions of one man YOUR people put into power in the first place??? A$$HOLE, seriously... im seeing you in a new light blue... the critical issues really bring out your character huh...
i think your ideas are dangerous... i think because of that you are a bad person, especially since you claim some sort of moral superiority in understanding of your god and that your ideas are righteous... does that mean i can kick in your door, rape and kill your fam, steal your assets and fly my standard on your flagpole???
i mean, could you really stop me??? not unless you knew i was comming... so might is right? or would my moral superiority in taking out people who waste space make it a right act???
Phillip the Fair aka Phillip Capet believed he was the ruler by divine right and he used that to justify some attrocious sh1t... and because the pope was a pu$$y and was terrified of the man he sanctioned all his rapes and thefts... thats where your kind of ideals get us...
Reality_Check
02-16-2011, 11:45 AM
And it broke the rules by throwing out the inspectors. Terrorism, weapons, etc are all moot points anyway.
Um...no...again.
That option was not on the table. Saddam had thrown the inspectors out. Bush said either the inspectors came back or we were going in. Saddam gambled that Bush was bluffing (like Clinton always did) and he was wrong.
The inspectors were withdrawn by the UN, as the US was about to commence bombing.
http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/iraqchron
From the Arms Control link:
UN weapons inspectors worked in Iraq from November 27, 2002 until March 18, 2003. During that time, inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the United Nations Monitoring, Verification, and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) conducted more than 900 inspections at more than 500 sites. The inspectors did not find that Iraq possessed chemical or biological weapons or that it had reconstituted its nuclear weapons program.
Although Iraq was cooperative on what inspectors called “process”—allowing inspectors access to suspected weapons sites, for example—it was only marginally cooperative in answering the questions surrounding its weapons programs. Unable to resolve its differences with Security Council members who favored strengthening and continuing weapons inspections, the United States abandoned the inspections process and initiated the invasion of Iraq on March 19.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/17/iraq/main544280.shtml
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Monday ordered all U.N. inspectors and support staff, humanitarian workers and U.N. observers along the Iraq-Kuwait border to evacuate Iraq after U.S. threats to launch war.
So, the inspectors were withdrawn due to US threats, not thrown out. As I've pointed out to you before.
...
The inspectors were withdrawn in 2003 by the U.N. as the U.S. was about to start bombing. Saddam's regime also publicly stated that they did not have WMDs. Which was backed up by the inspectors...
As I've demonstrated repeatedly, the claim that Iraq threw the inspectors out, which precipitated the invasion, is objectively false. You should stop making that claim because continuing to make a false claim, after (repeatedly) being shown that it is false, is pretty much lying.
BJJ-Blue
02-16-2011, 01:24 PM
dude... wtf is wrong with you...??? do you really believe you have the right to invade anyone and take what you want??? how do you justify that??? you will take a whole nation for the actions of one man YOUR people put into power in the first place??? A$$HOLE, seriously... im seeing you in a new light blue... the critical issues really bring out your character huh...
You're not comprehending what I'm saying.
I never said we had the right to "take what [we] want". I said under international law we had the right to use force when Saddam threw out the inspectors, which we did. Nowhere did I say we had the right to keep any land, oil, etc. And the United Nations justified the use of force, not me.
And please don't call names. I've made it a point to not do it, and I'd like it if others did not call me names.
BJJ-Blue
02-16-2011, 01:28 PM
As I've demonstrated repeatedly, the claim that Iraq threw the inspectors out, which precipitated the invasion, is objectively false. You should stop making that claim because continuing to make a false claim, after (repeatedly) being shown that it is false, is pretty much lying.
They also denied the inspectors access to certain sites, also a violation of the 1991 cease-fire.
Look, the fact that the UN voted for the use of force is enough, especially considering they routinely vote against us. Except, of course, when it's for them wanting more of our taxpayer's money.
Even Bill Clinton said they were in violation! Is he a liar too?
"WASHINGTON CNN From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq.
The president said Iraqs refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.
Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons, Clinton said.
Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said.
Earlier today I ordered Americas armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces, Clinton said.
Their mission is to attack Iraqs nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors, said Clinton."
Source: (complete artivle)
http://articles.cnn.com/1998-12-16/us/9812_16_clinton.iraq.speech_1_weapons-inspectors-united-nations-special-commission-biological-weapons?_s=PM:US
David Jamieson
02-16-2011, 01:47 PM
You're wrong.
*snip the misinformed rant*
You plank. Watch the video and you can even follow Cheney's lips as they move and mouth the words.
BJJ-Blue
02-16-2011, 01:52 PM
You plank. Watch the video and you can even follow Cheney's lips as they move and mouth the words.
Wow, calling names and playing the race card in the same thread!
I didn't deny he said them, I said "You obviously misunderstood the man." And I still stick by that. So call me a racist a few more times, that'll win you the debate. :rolleyes:
David Jamieson
02-16-2011, 01:56 PM
Wow, calling names and playing the race card in the same thread!
I didn't deny he said them, I said "You obviously misunderstood the man." And I still stick by that. So call me a racist a few more times, that'll win you the debate. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
seriously, you are trying to distract from the fact that you are wrong by stating that Cheney didn't say that. Ergo, you plank. lol
I didn't misunderstand it. I understand english very well and he said what he said. There is no need to add your neo-con filter to it.
I believe you are a racist by virtue of all the things you say. Keep saying them and indeed I will keep calling you a racist. :)
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