Repubs in S. Dakota Move To Legalize Killing Abortion Docs

[MasterKiller]

"A law under consideration in South Dakota would expand the definition of "justifiable homicide" to include killings that are intended to prevent harm to a fetus—a move that could make it legal to kill doctors who perform abortions. The Republican-backed legislation, House Bill 1171, has passed out of committee on a nine-to-three party-line vote, and is expected to face a floor vote in the state's GOP-dominated House of Representatives soon."

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/south-dakota-hb-1171-legalize-killing-abortion-providers

[David Jamieson]

"A law under consideration in South Dakota would expand the definition of "justifiable homicide" to include killings that are intended to prevent harm to a fetus—a move that could make it legal to kill doctors who perform abortions. The Republican-backed legislation, House Bill 1171, has passed out of committee on a nine-to-three party-line vote, and is expected to face a floor vote in the state's GOP-dominated House of Representatives soon."

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/south-dakota-hb-1171-legalize-killing-abortion-providers

Trust a right wing nutjob to table crap like this. :rolleyes:

[curenado]

I think I'll just stay out of that one. I don't want to live there and it sounds like they are volunteering to head right into chaos on purpose.

I am not sure why Repubs would back this? They are against welfare but want millions more welfare babies to support? I know nothing - it just seems contrary to their agenda unless they are making money on more hapless being born somehow...

Maybe they are "beefing up" (literally!) for the Soylent Green market of 2012?

(I don't want to hurt feelings either. Most pro-life folks are thinking brightly of the ONE life they are holding in their hands - not 10,000 a day dying of illness and starvation or the garbage dump orphanages. It's hard on beautiful hearts to think that their love may just be contributing to the better eating of vultures.)

[BJJ-Blue]

I am not sure why Repubs would back this? They are against welfare but want millions more welfare babies to support? I know nothing - it just seems contrary to their agenda unless they are making money on more hapless being born somehow...

Because alot of people, myself included, believe that if there was no welfare there would be alot less children born to parents in poverty. If you don't have the Government to feed your children, anyone with any common sense won't have children they cant feed. That, or they work an extra job. People will generally take care of themselves, unless they dont have to. Remember, people wouldn't live in ghettoes if we didn't pay them to.

We have millions of Americans on food stamps. Ask yourself this; before we had food stamps, did we have millions of Americans dying of starvation every year?

As to this law, I do believe abortion doctors are murderers, but it's not up to us to kill them. God will punish them worse than we can even imagine.

[curenado]

<<If you don't have the Government to feed your children, anyone with any common sense won't have children they cant feed.>>

Actually that is true to a large extent. There will always be that percentage that no matter what you do, they will just throw them in the dumpster or bury them like they do now. More than you'd think.

But before welfare they were born and just died. They died like flies. That is what happened, like it would (does) in nature.

The Ghettos exist to keep them from being around the malls and stuff - Yes, they get paid but those ghettos are what keeps downtown pretty and they would be run off if they tried to live there.

Before food stamps, the majority of people were just one step off a farm and plenty of them did starve. It is just that now, they don't even know where food comes from and so there is a much different complexion on that one.

They have become monstrous - I don't know how much of a monster the man thinning their numbers (according to their own desire) is by comparison. I would not want the job at all, and I used to look at the guys who did it as having the stomach for a easy racket. But the way it and they are going.....

Besides, doesn't the bible say "Woe unto those who give suck" in a time like this? We are not too awfully far from the point where "bible" people ate their young. So when we use the bible too much for this cause, we can pretty much count on the jeer "No way not them! They save theirs for winter meat!"

Seriously though - there is a significant % of the pop that will just bury them in the woods. SD is a place where they do that. They do it here too. In town they have dumpsters....Stop the availability of abortion and worse horrors will fill your eyes.

But - as I say, I have to try and stay case-by-case about it. I am just making points from the undertaker's perspective.....and from what they really do when there is nothing to clean after them.

The argument that less abortions means less ghettos might be rationale enough, but it is based on "common sense" people (among which "sense" is not that common) and from people that have some regard for life and their own - how many of these females are in that group?
You think a uptown cure will work on a downtown mess in practical application....I am not too sure.

I am thinking of one in particular. After four babies and three abortions someone was finally able to get her in and tie those tubes. She never had any of them for intent and a dog cares more for it's pups than she did.
All four of those kids are out there right now with you (not us) they are ruthless, viscious, predatory and cruel. They are thieves for a living and 50% of them have no problem with murder - abortion? Sure and hopefully someday retroactive...... Because in Bible times people would just go ahead and kill them, but now they get free checks and are out there waiting for a viable to eat.....

[KC Elbows]

[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1078554] Remember, people wouldn't live in ghettoes if we didn't pay them to.

QUOTE]

Outright false. Ghettos exist in all major cities since the industrial revolution: Marx STUDIED people in ghettos, and you blame theories that he espoused AFTER HIS STUDIES for creating ghettos.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Are all Republicans Sociopaths? Or is it just 'cause they weren't raised right?

The way some of you Right Wing Nutjobs talk, I'm half expecting one of you to start advocating for segregation.

Also, LOL at the simultaneous vilification of abortion and promotion of "retroactive euthanasia." :rolleyes:

*******.

[Syn7]

welfare isnt the problem... the problem is a system that would marginalize a section of society to the point to where they cant fend for themselves under their current conditions and restraints...how many kids from the ghetto get to harvard??? not many... so does that mean they arent as smart or have less capacity to learn??? no, ofcourse not... it means they grew up in sh1t and they learned how to live in sh1t and now all they are doing is what they have learned their whole life... address the issues that create the need for welfare, not welfare itself...



if you had cancer and you had two choices, take a cure and be done with it or take meds for life and live with it what would you choose???


anyone who denies that racism and class warfare and the like arent the root causes here, then you are slow in the head... yeah they have their share of idiots, but most are good people that would jump at any opportunity they could get...

[curenado]

I did not mean to villify abortion. I meant to say that most people lining up for them you really don't want reproducing.
In so far as euthanasia goes, I do not think that will be necessary because society, or rather the people in it, can only be pushed so far - or they can be pushed like this and then have a crucial incident.
I mean that the first time things get really tough, people will too.

In so far as those boys go - well, if they pull some dirty street punk crap on you and you let them.......I myself would not. Feel sorry for the people they meet unless they are just like 'em.

[Syn7]

Because alot of people, myself included, believe that if there was no welfare there would be alot less children born to parents in poverty. If you don't have the Government to feed your children, anyone with any common sense won't have children they cant feed. That, or they work an extra job. People will generally take care of themselves, unless they dont have to. Remember, people wouldn't live in ghettoes if we didn't pay them to.

We have millions of Americans on food stamps. Ask yourself this; before we had food stamps, did we have millions of Americans dying of starvation every year?

As to this law, I do believe abortion doctors are murderers, but it's not up to us to kill them. God will punish them worse than we can even imagine.

food stamps and welfare was created for farmers that were either pushed off their land or had crop failures that decimated their lives... and yes they were suffering and dying off like shoe flies...

and your adoption point is just silly blue... the number of abortions a year far far far exceed the number of famillies waiting for adoptions... so you will have all these kids growing up in orphanages usually not treated so great and mos def not schooled so well, and how do you suppose that will turn out...


and curenado made a great point earlier.,.. most of the people who have abortions are people, esspecially as a means of birth control, are people you dont want to be reproducing...

[Syn7]

Are all Republicans Sociopaths? Or is it just 'cause they weren't raised right?

The way some of you Right Wing Nutjobs talk, I'm half expecting one of you to start advocating for segregation.

Also, LOL at the simultaneous vilification of abortion and promotion of "retroactive euthanasia." :rolleyes:

*******.

im not a righty... and i dont agree with segregation... but i do believe that multiculturalism has been a huge failure...

[Syn7]

Because in Bible times people would just go ahead and kill them, but now they get free checks and are out there waiting for a viable to eat.....

they had abortions in bible times... it was risky, but then so was giving birth back then... you had like a decent chance of bleeding out and dying if anything went wrong... and any doc today will tell you that things always go wrong, we just have the ability to fix alot of those issues before they can kill... c-sections, other therapies and the like...

[curenado]

Indeed they did. They had alley abortion clinics when I was a kid before they could be legit. We always had to hear about some girl desperate to keep a secret that bled out or died of sepsis in a dirty or fake illicit abrtion hole.
But back then it was the odd story and something that was infrequent - the way they line up now is pretty gross and people would be less inclined to think "something bad happened to a good girl" as opposed to "well that's how stray cats in heat act."

What I meant about the bible times thing was that if somebody in those times acted like they do today, instead of getting a bunch of attention, "anger counseling" and a disability check, they would have just got pelted with basketball sized rocks until dead.

My grandfather used to say that when people carried guns around they were politer to each other and you did not have trouble because people were more cautious.
That was then and a whole different society and people, and you figure today they would just be shooting for nihilism and revenge - but when I was in Arizona where they have open carry, I never saw anybody get mugged. Those street punks talked all big as usual - but that was about it.

Anyway - to me this here is about a bunch of peoplewho most likely would do the right thing or at least not the wrong one, hashing each other and troubling their souls over people who would not pee on them if they were on fire.
I try to consider that too - that I am arguing with people who, in real life, DO pick up the baby bird and give any kid an "even break" - over caring about people who largely care only about themselves and view everything else as just a object for their gratification in one way or another.

"I argue with the living over the dead! There are no fools like old fools!" Lol!

[Syn7]

im ok with guns... if i want you dead you are gonna die, gun or no gun... atleast if you have a roscoe you can put me down... but i have to say there needs to be education involved and it needs to be treated like driving... learn proper use, take a test and re-new every few years... and not just pay the fee to renew but re-do the test... i dont think thats at all un reasonable... its working great for the swiss...



Welcome to Switzerland...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg/450px-Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg

[BJJ-Blue]

To those of you saying we did have large numbers of people in America starving to death before the food stamps were available, please back that up.

And to those of you mentioning the Bible and charity, it also says, 'If a man shall not work, he shall not eat'.

[BJJ-Blue]

The Ghettos exist to keep them from being around the malls and stuff - Yes, they get paid but those ghettos are what keeps downtown pretty and they would be run off if they tried to live there.

Do what?!?!

People cannot be discriminated in housing. If you were born into the ghetto and became successful in life, you can live anywhere you can afford to buy/rent real estate in.

As to the ghettoes here, let's get real. Look at pics of Detriot in 1945, and look at it now. Heck, do it with just about city thats been ran by liberals for decades upon decades. The ghettoes have alot of public housing in them. How could they possibly have existed like they do now before we had public housing? :confused:

[MasterKiller]

And to those of you mentioning the Bible and charity, it also says, 'If a man shall not work, he shall not eat'.

LOL at your socialist propoganda!

Soviet Constitution, Article Twelve (1936):

In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honor for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat."

[BJJ-Blue]

The Bible says it no matter what you call it. And we know what Marx thought of religion.

As to the USSR slogan, to me it's about the same as the sign over the entrance to Aushwitz.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Let's not bring the bible into this people, OK?
Nor religion, neither have nothing to do with this.

[Lucas]

im ok with guns... if i want you dead you are gonna die, gun or no gun... atleast if you have a roscoe you can put me down... but i have to say there needs to be education involved and it needs to be treated like driving... learn proper use, take a test and re-new every few years... and not just pay the fee to renew but re-do the test... i dont think thats at all un reasonable... its working great for the swiss...



Welcome to Switzerland...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg/450px-Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg

i saw a quote today that made sense to me, its from that guy ummm..lawrence odonnel or something like that but he said.

"i blame the person for the first 10 bullets, I blame the law for the next 21 bullets" he has a good point, no one needs that many bullets in a gun for self protection. war is different.

[BJJ-Blue]

"i blame the person for the first 10 bullets, I blame the law for the next 21 bullets" he has a good point, no one needs that many bullets in a gun for self protection. war is different.

What if they are not a good shot and need alot of bullets to hit the target(s). ;)

Seriously though, the 2nd Amendment was not written just for self protection. It was also written to protect the people from the government. Remember, no dictatorship in history has allowed the people the right to bear arms. The Founders knew this.

[Lucas]

lol then they deserve to lose if they cant hit the mark with 10 rounds. :p

at this point its almost a moot point though, does anyone HONESTLY ever see the american people rising up and fighting the govt. and the military?

ill bet anything that will never happen, ever. so why even bother with the mentality that it will. we all know it wont. imo, its far too late for that, we missed that ship when it sailed many years ago

[KC Elbows]

lol then they deserve to lose if they cant hit the mark with 10 rounds. :p

at this point its almost a moot point though, does anyone HONESTLY ever see the american people rising up and fighting the govt. and the military?

ill bet anything that will never happen, ever. so why even bother with the mentality that it will. we all know it wont. imo, its far too late for that, we missed that ship when it sailed many years ago

Many rebellions include rifts in the military, statistically speaking, that will someday happen.

But, defending yourself here from a modern military with what amounts to toys, probably only if we become third world.

[Syn7]

i saw a quote today that made sense to me, its from that guy ummm..lawrence odonnel or something like that but he said.

"i blame the person for the first 10 bullets, I blame the law for the next 21 bullets" he has a good point, no one needs that many bullets in a gun for self protection. war is different.

yeah that was about gabby and the fact that jared had extended clips... he was only taken down when he had to reload...

[MasterKiller]

The Bible says it no matter what you call it. .

The Bible is the biggest socialist experiment ever. Jesus tells the rich to sell their **** and give it to the poor. Paul tells everyone that you have to work to eat. And at the very center of all this debacle is an all powerful leader who promotes the murder of children, subjagation of women, and genocide whenever his agenda his threatened.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The Bible is the biggest socialist experiment ever. Jesus tells the rich to sell their **** and give it to the poor. Paul tells everyone that you have to work to eat. And at the very center of all this debacle is an all powerful leader who promotes the murder of children, subjagation of women, and genocide whenever his agenda his threatened.

You make that sound like its a bad thing ;)

Just an FYI in regards to Jesus's views on things they HE deemed "worthy':
The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

[BJJ-Blue]

I just believe in helping those who help themselves. It's really that simple.

Most people in my family despise those who mooch off others. We don't give money to bums begging on streetcorners. But we do donate stuff to Goodwill and the Salvation Army (and speaking only for myself we don't even write it off), and some of us with extra money donate to the Austin Food Bank. But one night my brother was leaving a restaurant with his wife and kid. They had taken some 'doggy bags' of food with them. On the way out a homeless guy asked for food, he said he was hungry and just wanted to eat something. My brother gave him all they had. But he is the same guy that tells bums begging for money on streetcorners to '*** off' when they ask him for money. Helping someone to eat is one thing, giving them money to buy alcohol and drugs is another.

But giving any able-bodied person welfare for free rent, food, clothing etc for decades and decades is madness. The way I look at it, if you can fill out all the Gov't forms it takes to get the welfare, you are capable of writing up a resume and doing office/clerical work.

[Syn7]

But giving any able-bodied person welfare for free rent, food, clothing etc for decades and decades is madness.


how did this thread end up being the same topic is the other thread??? one is enough...

yes its a problem, yes something needs to be done... but what you propose isnt the way to go about it... and the longer you wait to do the right thing, the harder it will be to get it done properly... the fact that the real problem has been ignored for so long and pushed aside is the reason why its so bad right now... you guys are barely holding on as it is... if you just lance the problem all you are doing is creating an environment that didnt learn any lesson and is more than vulnerable to the same problem later on...


if you walk in the snow in bare feet then come back in and get a toe removed from frostbite and then do it again and again until you have no toes you are an idiot... and when the toes are gone you move on to the feet, then the ankles and so on till it kills you... instead after the very first toe got cold you should have put on some footwear and dealt with it properly...

but you dont do that, you put on socks then run back outside then cut off another toe when disaster looms again... you never learn the real lesson and you doom yourself to a very hard life...

and you people who are all cozy way up there near center mass have no idea why your toes are so fukcing cold... all you know is that it hurts and you are willing to just cut the toe to stop feeling pain... yoou dont care about toes anyways, you live in a different world...

thats ignorance beyond ignorance... wake up... you act like every kid born in the ghetto has the same opportunities you have because some peice of paper says they do... they dont... very few do... the fact that you dont get that is just sad... pull your head out...

[BJJ-Blue]

thats ignorance beyond ignorance... wake up... you act like every kid born in the ghetto has the same opportunities you have because some peice of paper says they do... they dont... very few do... the fact that you dont get that is just sad... pull your head out...

In many ways they do. They get a free K-12 education just like non-poor kids do, and if they bust their butts they can get full ride scholarships just as the non-poor kids can.

And in some ways they get MORE. There are scholarships and grants that only go to minorities. There are scholarships and grants that only go to kids whose parents earn BELOW a certain income. And there are programs that take the higher performing kids from inner cities and put them in better schools (Obama killed a program like that in Washington DC though).

Now I'm not saying it's easy, I'll admit it's easier having money in many ways. But with some hard work for just a few years, you can set yourself up for a very good, free college education and thus a very high paying job for the rest of your life. It just takes some work.

[Lucas]

N. But with some hard work for just a few years, you can set yourself up for a very good, free college education and thus a very high paying job for the rest of your life. It just takes some work.

now here is the disconnect. show me a child in elementary school that truly understands this concept. your examples, i'll bet you, will be very few. now take into account many children raised in the ghetto do not recieve the same familial involvment during their formative years to explain these things and impress a strong example through action.

there are many other factors involved beyond the argument of simply working hard. by the time these kids 'get' it many are in middle or high school and so much has built up it can be hard to get away from the life that is already developed through years of living it.

not saying it cant be done, examples are there that it certainly can. but its not just so simple. life is complicated

[Lucas]

i will say the people who have made a good life for themselves that were raised in the ghetto generally have a better grasp of reality than many other 'well to do' people. tends to happen when you have lived on both sides of the tracks and built your life off of hard work.

[Syn7]

i will say the people who have made a good life for themselves that were raised in the ghetto generally have a better grasp of reality than many other 'well to do' people. tends to happen when you have lived on both sides of the tracks and built your life off of hard work.

yeah doncha just shake your head at middle class people who think they worked harder for what they have than somebody in a lower socio-economic bracket who has less...

sure, all socio-economic classes have their bad seeds, but its not fair to stereotype whole segments of your fellow american brothers based on some examples of lazyness, criminality etc etc...

thats no different than assuming somebody who inherited a fanancial dynasty doesnyt work hard to maintain it, that their money makes money and the actual owners just live it up... sure there is lots of that... but its not fair to stereotype them all based on that...

[Lucas]

we cant let paris hilton ruin it for all the trust fund babies! :p

[Syn7]

Congresswoman Revealed Abortion Ahead Of Vote To Defund Planned Parenthood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2gylhdXRA&feature=player_embedded

[Syn7]

Just for the record. Planned Parenthood was created by Margaret Sanger who was a proponent of Eugenics.

Teddy Roosevelt was a huge proponent of Eugenics as well. Look it up, it's common knowledge. So Eugenics is all about stengthening society through good breeding. Weed out undesirables and stuff like that. Then these guys go and start a womens clinic for the marginalized and call it Planned Parenthood. What do you think their ultimate agenda would be?

[BJJ-Blue]

now here is the disconnect. show me a child in elementary school that truly understands this concept. your examples, i'll bet you, will be very few. now take into account many children raised in the ghetto do not recieve the same familial involvment during their formative years to explain these things and impress a strong example through action.

No disconnect at all. Inner city public schools are just as accredited as public schools in well-to-do neighborhoods.

And they can't be that bad anyway, liberals told us that integrated bussing was a great idea. That was where they shipped kids from the suburbs into 'the hood' for the STATED goal of "integration". It failed horribly. Integrated bussing didn't last long, even the liberals had to admit it was an epic failure that really only created more problems. FYI, I was bussed and I (and my parents) hated it. That was where I first discovered that liberal 'feel good' solutions/programs that sound good on paper usually fail when enacted. And even at that young age I noticed that only middle class kids were bussed in 'the hood', the rich kids were not. Of course the rich part of town was where all the liberals on the City Council were from....

And in Texas, we have laws such as the one below, that treats all schools as equal in terms of college admissions:

"The Texas legislature passed House Bill 588 in 1997 in response to the 1996 federal court ruling in Hopwood vs. the State of Texas that struck down an affirmative action admissions program at the University of Texas School of Law. The law requires each public college and university to admit automatically any student who has graduated in either of the two preceding academic years with a grade-point average in the top 10% of the student's graduating class. After admitting all automatic qualifiers, the schools must admit other applicants based a number of academic and socioeconomic factors. According to a 2005 report by the Texas House Research Organization, the top 10% law has had the greatest impact at the state's flagship institutions."

Source:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0116.htm

So if you are in the Top 10% of your graduating class you CANNOT BE DENIED in ANY public college or university, no matter if you graduted in the State's richest district, or the State's poorest. Sounds like equal opportunity to me.

[BJJ-Blue]

i will say the people who have made a good life for themselves that were raised in the ghetto generally have a better grasp of reality than many other 'well to do' people. tends to happen when you have lived on both sides of the tracks and built your life off of hard work.

SO true. I've always said a huge problem the US is facing is the rise of the "political class". These are people who are either born into politics or raised into it from a young age. They really do not experience 'real life' and when they get elected they have no clue of the needs of middle class America, yet they are in charge of enacting new laws. It's a recipe for disaster.


yeah doncha just shake your head at middle class people who think they worked harder for what they have than somebody in a lower socio-economic bracket who has less...

Because they have worked for it. Middle class means you are not the working poor or the non-working welfare types, nor are you rich. You experience both being a 'have' and a 'have not'. While the poor and the rich only experience one half of those. Middle class people are America, imo. They work for what they have, and they only want their kids to have more than them. They are the hardest working too. They don't get Gov't assistance, yet they are not rich so they don't have personal accountants, tax shelters, new cars every 2 years, etc.

[Syn7]

if all these schools are just as good as the next, then why was "bussing" such a failure???

do you really believe an inner city ghetto school, with like one token white student, is as good as the schools in the suburbs??? on average??? please... thats just rediculous...

you say you were shipped in... from where??? you were white middle class shipped into the hood??? and you hated it why??? and you felt all the academic standards were the same at all the public schools you attended???

all liberal/conservative smearing aside... do you feel you would get as good an education at the inner city school that you would have gotten at a school closer to home??? and aside from educational standards, do you feel the conditions in and around everything to do with the inner city school was just as good as its suburban counterpart???

all laws and rules aside... i dont care what its supposed to be, i care what it is... so dont quote the rules... you really feel that each has the same opportunities???

i guess the test results are just cause poor kids are lazy like their welfare food stamp loving parents huh.......





BJJBLUE...

SO true. I've always said a huge problem the US is facing is the rise of the "political class". These are people who are either born into politics or raised into it from a young age. They really do not experience 'real life' and when they get elected they have no clue of the needs of middle class America, yet they are in charge of enacting new laws. It's a recipe for disaster.

so, i dunno, people like george bush, his brother and his father??? all raised in private schools by political parents and later went off to other states to pretend like they grew up there??? like florida and texas... george bush isnt texan in any way shape or form... hes a smug lil andover rich boy who was silver spoon fed from day one... by your logic this man should be the biggest disaster... same with his father...

but people you hate are newcommers like obama... im willing to bet you dont like ron paul much either, huh???



blue... if everyone has an equal shot, like you say... that means that somebody poor who has less than somebody middle class has not worked as hard... and thats bullsh1t... it shows you dont understand at all... you can deny that all you want but your statements speak for themselves...

if A and B have equal opportunity and A has more than B that means A worked harder than B... and, on average, thats just not true... and thats not even taking into consideration the people who want to work more but cant for one reason or another... like no jobs available or already working 18 hours a day for 8 bucks an hour...
do you work 18 hours a day blue??? would you work 18 hours a day for 8 bucks an hour blue??? if that was your only opportunity to stay afloat would you feel as if the world is fair and you had a fair shake??? while some brat drives by in mommys suv... or some guy who makes 80 bucks an hour and works 5 hours a day 4 days a week because mommy bought them an education???

are you really gonna sit there and tell me that you believe everyone is on equal footing... and dont spout off laws and ideals... we are talking about what the world is really like, not the american dream world that only exists in principle for too many people...

[BJJ-Blue]

if all these schools are just as good as the next, then why was "bussing" such a failure???

Mainly two reasons:

1) When you forcibly put groups of people together from very different demographics, you will have problems. I saw ALOT of fights over race, it was actually alot like these prison documentary shows, kids separated themselves by race and and location (the kids bussed from North Austin stuck together, the kids bussed from South Austin stick together, and the Eastside kids stuck together. One of the primary issues bussing was supposed to fix, integration, only got WORSE.

2) Upwardly mobile familes who had worked hard to leave the bad neighborhoods were now having their kids FORCIBLY sent to schools in the very neighborhoods they had worked their butts off to get away from!


do you really believe an inner city ghetto school, with like one token white student, is as good as the schools in the suburbs??? on average??? please... thats just rediculous...

First off, it wasnt a "token white kid" that was bussed in. At the school I was bussed into the bussed in kids were around 30%-40% of the students IIRC. Second, I'll admit the suburbs schools are better, but I say it's due primarily to parent participation. We have an Eastside HS (Johnston) that is always on the verge of being closed by the State over poor performance. Everytime it looks like they are going to close it, they parents of kids who go there always protest, usually it's all 5 of them. But when Austin considered closing higher performing schools to cut a budget gap, you had hundreds and hundreds of parents protesting. IMO, parents are the biggest factor, and like it or not, parents from the bad parts of town just do not actively participate in school issues like parents from better parts of town.


you say you were shipped in... from where??? you were white middle class shipped into the hood??? and you hated it why??? and you felt all the academic standards were the same at all the public schools you attended???

I was shipped from South Austin, the Junior High I was bussed to was on the East Side of town. We also had kids bussed from North Austin as well.

I disliked it for many reasons. First, I had to wake up about an hour earlier because of the long bus ride, and I'm not a morning person. Second, I don't like seeing the evils of racism on a daily basis, and I did over there. I never encountered near that amount of racial strife in schools that were non-bussing schools. The academic standards were the same as the 'better' schools, that part was actually ok. Of course the academic performance was alot worse. We actually had 2 Eastside kids who drove to school! And again, this was JUNIOR HIGH! And yes, those guys were old enough to drive, 16 in Texas. And though they only came to goof off in class, show off their cars, and hit on the 13 year old girls, they were not thrown out of school despite all this.

And as I said before, despite the stated goal of "integration", the children of the rich, white liberals were not forcibly integrated....


all liberal/conservative smearing aside... do you feel you would get as good an education at the inner city school that you would have gotten at a school closer to home??? and aside from educational standards, do you feel the conditions in and around everything to do with the inner city school was just as good as its suburban counterpart???

In many ways, I admit no. But you do have to pass the same Statewide test to graduate, and the Top 10% of graduates from ALL schools were guaranteed a slot in college.


all laws and rules aside... i dont care what its supposed to be, i care what it is... so dont quote the rules... you really feel that each has the same opportunities???

i guess the test results are just cause poor kids are lazy like their welfare food stamp loving parents huh.......

This is America, so yes, they have the exact same opportunity as anyone else. Of course some people may have to work harder to achieve it (life isn't fair) than others. I actually admire the kids who do come from a poorer family that become very successful more than rich kids who do it. In my industry, we have ALOT of people from poor countries that come here to finish their higher education (if need be) and to work and to become American citizens. They actually start out BEHIND poor American kids because these people aren't raised speaking English and they have to acclimate to an entirely different country. So kids born in the hood have a mucher better 'starting position' than these guys, yet I work with alot more engineers from poorer countries than I do with people who grew up poor in America. That says alot about American entitlement mentality.

[BJJ-Blue]

so, i dunno, people like george bush, his brother and his father??? all raised in private schools by political parents and later went off to other states to pretend like they grew up there??? like florida and texas... george bush isnt texan in any way shape or form... hes a smug lil andover rich boy who was silver spoon fed from day one... by your logic this man should be the biggest disaster... same with his father...

but people you hate are newcommers like obama... im willing to bet you dont like ron paul much either, huh???

Notice I didn't say being born into a political family was the ONLY factor.

Yes, Obama is political class to me because as a child he was interested/raised to be a politician. Look at his education, and the fact he never held a PRODUCTIVE private sector job. Sure, Bush was born to parents who were pretty well off (and remember his father risked his life for this country and almost lost it if not for a submarine rescue). But Bush went out and got business loans, did fail at times, and did succeed very well at times. So he learned lessons from this, which I say is VERY important. Look ,lets be honest here, Obama is clueless about the private sector. Absolutely clueless. He has to bring in CEO and COC types to fill him in on what to do to help businesses! And even then he is too **** arrogant to listen to them.


blue... if everyone has an equal shot, like you say... that means that somebody poor who has less than somebody middle class has not worked as hard... and thats bullsh1t... it shows you dont understand at all... you can deny that all you want but your statements speak for themselves...

Again, as I said in the post above, we ALL have the same opportunites. Of course I admit some will have to work harder then others because of their situations, but what's so horrible about hard work? Is it now a bad thing?


do you work 18 hours a day blue??? would you work 18 hours a day for 8 bucks an hour blue??? if that was your only opportunity to stay afloat would you feel as if the world is fair and you had a fair shake??? while some brat drives by in mommys suv... or some guy who makes 80 bucks an hour and works 5 hours a day 4 days a week because mommy bought them an education???

are you really gonna sit there and tell me that you believe everyone is on equal footing... and dont spout off laws and ideals... we are talking about what the world is really like, not the american dream world that only exists in principle for too many people...

It's against labor laws to work over 16 hours a day, but I have done it when I was younger. People do that to get ahead, this should not surprise you. I now make over THREE TIMES what I made when I started in this industry about 15 years ago. I did that through hard work, furthering my education, and being very flexible when others are not (like working holidays, long hours, cancelling dinner plans, etc, etc). People do this.

And yes, I know rich kids get it easier. Though I was bussed into Junior High, my last two years of High School were at a school where my parents made under the median income of other parents. My parent scraped up money to get me a '73 Bug, while other kids were driving brand new IROCs, Saleen Mustings, stepside pick-ups, and some drove fully restored classic cars. It didn't make me bitter, it didn't make me despise rich people. It didn't make me a socialist. It made me tell myself I would bust my butt to be able to buy those things FOR MYSELF. That's why I say we all have the same opportunities. My father only wanted me and my brother to have more than he did, it's part of the American dream. And he did. I have some nice toys at my age my father couldn't affod to buy when he was my age. So when I see myslef achieve more than my parents, I know others can even if they start out 'behind' me. There really is no excuse for a kid who is able-bodied, and with enough intelligence to graduate HS (which isn't alot btw) to fail in this country.

[SoCo KungFu]

I'll admit the suburbs schools are better, but I say it's due primarily to parent participation.

Yeah it had nothing at all to do with population density, student/teacher ratio, socioeconomic status....


And as I said before, despite the stated goal of "integration", the children of the rich, white liberals were not forcibly integrated....

Because the rich kids could go to private schooling or just drive to the school of choice. Your assumption is self defeating. Socioeconomic status...


In many ways, I admit no. But you do have to pass the same Statewide test to graduate, and the Top 10% of graduates from ALL schools were guaranteed a slot in college.

Most of which go to the rich white kids, seeing as how you know, they make up most of that 10%...


This is America, so yes, they have the exact same opportunity as anyone else.

You're naive as ****...forget equal outcome, we haven't come close to equal opportunity.


Of course some people may have to work harder to achieve it

Which by definition isn't really "exactly the same opportunity" now is it? Not that it needs to be exactly to same. But the deck is incredibly stacked...


So kids born in the hood have a mucher better 'starting position' than these guys, yet I work with alot more engineers from poorer countries than I do with people who grew up poor in America. That says alot about American entitlement mentality.

It says a lot about the lack of teachers forcing inner city classes crammed full, it says a lot about lack of textbooks in our classrooms, it says a lot about empty school libraries, lack of afterschool tutoring, lack of self esteem from the feeling of no way out, and yes to an extent...lack of parental involvement. But its so much more. You have a very narrow world view. You think you understand, but really you are rather clueless. You admit you never even finished college. Did you even start? What experience do you have to make you think you know what its like to try to claw your way out of a gutter? Not trying to be an ass, serious question. What makes you think you can comment on the struggles of another human being?

[SoCo KungFu]

Again, as I said in the post above, we ALL have the same opportunites.


And yes, I know rich kids get it easier.

So no we all do not have the same opportunities. Thanks for clearing that up.


Though I was bussed into Junior High, my last two years of High School were at a school where my parents made under the median income of other parents. My parent scraped up money to get me a '73 Bug, while other kids were driving brand new IROCs, Saleen Mustings, stepside pick-ups, and some drove fully restored classic cars. It didn't make me bitter, it didn't make me despise rich people. It didn't make me a socialist. It made me tell myself I would bust my butt to be able to buy those things FOR MYSELF. That's why I say we all have the same opportunities. My father only wanted me and my brother to have more than he did, it's part of the American dream. And he did. I have some nice toys at my age my father couldn't affod to buy when he was my age. So when I see myslef achieve more than my parents, I know others can even if they start out 'behind' me.

So you really didn't have it bad at all then. Thanks again for clearing that up. So what then makes you think you know about living and going to school in a ghetto and trying to succeed against THOSE odds, especially in a country that is against you because of the color of your skin. And don't even try to say racism is dead...


There really is no excuse for a kid who is able-bodied, and with enough intelligence to graduate HS (which isn't alot btw) to fail in this country.

See thats the catch isn't it. Enough intelligence...How do you expect a kid to succeed when the failing schools are putting out graduates years behind the necessary academic levels to actually succeed in higher education?

[BJJ-Blue]

So no we all do not have the same opportunities. Thanks for clearing that up.

Your reading comprehension and logic are flawed. We all have the same opportunities. For example, anyone born in the US has the opportunity to become President of the United States, or a Senator, or a policeman, or a professor, etc. No laws bar this. But you appaerntly can't fathom that even though we all have the same opportunites, I admit some will have to work harder for it.

The opportunity is the same. Period. Get it now?

[BJJ-Blue]

Yeah it had nothing at all to do with population density, student/teacher ratio, socioeconomic status....

I didn't say they didn't matter. I said parental participation was the PRIMARY reason, not the ONLY reason.


Because the rich kids could go to private schooling or just drive to the school of choice. Your assumption is self defeating. Socioeconomic status...

True. But the laws were not even written forcing them to go in the first place. That's hypocracy. And for someone who is whining about fairness, I'm surprised you don't agree with me here. Those making the laws saw to it their kids weren't affected by the very policies they said were good policies for others.


Most of which go to the rich white kids, seeing as how you know, they make up most of that 10%...

FYI, once again it's the liberals bringing race into it.

But it appears you don't understand how the program works. It's not the top 10% out of the State. It's the top 10% from each individual school. So any school that has a huge proportion of minorities will have alot of minorities in it's Top 10%. Get it now?


You're naive as ****...forget equal outcome, we haven't come close to equal opportunity.


Yes we do. And unless you can show me, for example, laws barring kids from the inner city from being professors, or laws prventing children of poor parents from becoming CEOs, etc, etc, you're assertion on this is dead wrong.



Which by definition isn't really "exactly the same opportunity" now is it? Not that it needs to be exactly to same. But the deck is incredibly stacked...

You're hung up on this. Look, we all have the same opportunity, like it or not.

Here is an example. Say you have two teams getting ready to play a basketball game, and I'm on one of the teams. Now I'm 5 ft 7, and lets say every other player in the game is over 6 ft tall. I have the same opportunity to be the leading scorer in that game as any other player. Now I may be at a disadvantage, but I still have the opportunity. Get it?


It says a lot about the lack of teachers forcing inner city classes crammed full, it says a lot about lack of textbooks in our classrooms, it says a lot about empty school libraries, lack of afterschool tutoring, lack of self esteem from the feeling of no way out, and yes to an extent...lack of parental involvement. But its so much more. You have a very narrow world view. You think you understand, but really you are rather clueless. You admit you never even finished college. Did you even start? What experience do you have to make you think you know what its like to try to claw your way out of a gutter? Not trying to be an ass, serious question. What makes you think you can comment on the struggles of another human being?



Well first off they have a teacher problem because many teachers refuse to teach there. I'd be hesitant to teach at a school where the first thing I saw when I walked in was a metal detector.

And I don't have a narrow view, I have a realistic view. We all have the sam opportunities, anyone who can;t see that is the one with a narrow view. Not me.

As to experience clawing your way up, I've been at or near the bottom in something and did quite well. I sarted MMA/BJJ at 31, I had smoked cigarettes for over 10 years prior to that, and I only weighed about 135 pounds. The average age there was at least 5 years younger than me, and the day I started I was the least experienced there. I busted my butt rolling/sparring with guys over 10 years younger than me at times, with guys 70+ pounds more than me, and with guys with years more experience than me. I didn't quit. I didn't say it was unfair I had many disadvantages. I busted my butt. And you know what? I got respect. When a professional fighter in his early 20s is sparring with 'the old, white guy' (yes, I was called that ;)), and I wouldn't quit, I EARNED theri respect. They didn't look down on me for being older, they didn't look down on me for being one of the smaller guys there, they helped me get better, and they congratulated me when I earned my blue belt, they congratulated me when I won a tournament (where I entered the adult division because it was a bigger challenge, not the senior division). Hard work pays off, and it also makes the guy who did the hard work proud of himself. And again, it earns that guy respect from others who know he worked hard for it.

[BJJ-Blue]

See thats the catch isn't it. Enough intelligence...How do you expect a kid to succeed when the failing schools are putting out graduates years behind the necessary academic levels to actually succeed in higher education?

Once again you are wrong, at least in Texas. We have a standardized test (I can't remember it's name, its been a long time), the ALL seniors must pass to graduate even though those kids passed the required classes. So the schools have to teach kids at least up to that level or none of their kids would be passing the test. And we also have laws forcing schools who do not meet academic requirements to be closed. We actually have one here, Johnston High. It's well overdue to be closed, but every year it invariably comes up it's failed yet again, the parents actually protest to keep it open!!!

And in the other parts of your previous posts, you keep bringing up racism. You really have a jaded view, you apparently think most people are racists (a common trait among radical leftists btw). Let me ask you this, do you think Reggie White was a racist? I'm curious on this one.

[Syn7]

equal opportunity under law... but not in real life... we all know it... most of us see it one way or another... as a victim, a perpetrator, gawker... its obvious and its clear... all politics aside...


ofcourse when you get into the complexities of corporate law that whole equality thing goes right out the window... but thats another topic...

[BJJ-Blue]

Again Syn, I'm not being naive and arguing we are all starting out at the same starting gate. We aren't. But every last one of us has the opportunity to win the race.

Look at John Schnatter. The guy wasn't born rich, nor poor either. But he SACRIFICED his most loved possession, his 1971 Camaro Z-28 to start a business. And that business is now the 3rd biggest pizza chain in the US. Now alot of guys have had richer parents and tried to start businesses, and yet they didn't achieve more than Mr Schnatter. He was far from starting off at the 'front of the pack', but still he finished in 1st place (the other 2 chains were around before his was). We should emulate success, not punish it. People should admire people like that guy, not complain that people like that won "Life's Lottery".

[Syn7]

Anti-Abortion Georgia Lawmaker Proposes Law That Would Criminalize Miscarriages (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/antiabortion-georgia-lawm_n_827340.html)

[curenado]

equal opportunity under law... but not in real life... we all know it... most of us see it one way or another... as a victim, a perpetrator, gawker... its obvious and its clear... all politics aside...


ofcourse when you get into the complexities of corporate law that whole equality thing goes right out the window... but thats another topic...

You can whine all you want to - people don't want illiterates, thieves, ebonics speaking lazy-bots and other kinds of rip-off artist in their company.

I guess if people really were equal it might be different, but since they are not but like to say so then what else can a company do?

There is no real way in any grown up mind that a illiterate with a entirely criminal life is equal to a literate with professional skills. They are not equal at all. That is just a lie.

[BJJ-Blue]

You can whine all you want to - people don't want illiterates, thieves, ebonics speaking lazy-bots and other kinds of rip-off artist in their company.

I guess if people really were equal it might be different, but since they are not but like to say so then what else can a company do?

There is no real way in any grown up mind that a illiterate with a entirely criminal life is equal to a literate with professional skills. They are not equal at all. That is just a lie.

Thank you. Very well said.

[Syn7]

You can whine all you want to - people don't want illiterates, thieves, ebonics speaking lazy-bots and other kinds of rip-off artist in their company.

I guess if people really were equal it might be different, but since they are not but like to say so then what else can a company do?

There is no real way in any grown up mind that a illiterate with a entirely criminal life is equal to a literate with professional skills. They are not equal at all. That is just a lie.

so what? if you reside in the lowest bracket you are a lazy ebonics speaking illiterate lying theif? come on now... you know d@mn well that there are a ton of good people held down by prejudice... white collar crime is all clean nice and happy, all good... but the dirty proletariat is just cramping your style huh... nice... stealing 40 million and doing lines in a huge bathroom is somehow more acceptable than a guy who jacked somebody to hit the pipe? you shouldnt classify people like that... where they live, who they are related to etc shouldnt be a tag that they cant just shake off by being good people... but they are treated like the ones who arent...


im not advocating for theives... im advocating for people that are written off as theives because of how they look, where they live, what color their skin is etc etc...

[Syn7]

Nebraska Resurrects "Justifiable Homicide" Abortion Bill

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/nebraska-justifiable-homicide-abortion-bill

[BJJ-Blue]

so what? if you reside in the lowest bracket you are a lazy ebonics speaking illiterate lying theif? come on now... you know d@mn well that there are a ton of good people held down by prejudice... white collar crime is all clean nice and happy, all good... but the dirty proletariat is just cramping your style huh... nice... stealing 40 million and doing lines in a huge bathroom is somehow more acceptable than a guy who jacked somebody to hit the pipe? you shouldnt classify people like that... where they live, who they are related to etc shouldnt be a tag that they cant just shake off by being good people... but they are treated like the ones who arent...


im not advocating for theives... im advocating for people that are written off as theives because of how they look, where they live, what color their skin is etc etc...

He didn't say any of that. He didn't even mention race. Once again, when someone advocates personal responsibility and making good choices as a key to success, he is called/inferred a racist. :rolleyes:

[curenado]

<<He didn't say any of that. He didn't even mention race. Once again, when someone advocates personal responsibility and making good choices as a key to success, he is called/inferred a racist. >>

No, I didn't - and I wasn't born with a silver spoon.

My mom's brothers and sisters grew up almost in the street. Because of the times then, they ALL became home owners and such eventually.

But I know it is even harder now with the decent jobs so competative - I do see that for sure.
But when one area is declining, there is usually another expanding. Let's hope that it will be like that this time around too - but I'd still be planting more potatos....

[Syn7]

Racist 'Pro-Life' Billboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Faz2tUKQ4


this one is brutal... to say that the most dangerous place for a baby is in a black womans womb... thats going too far... you see the slippery slope... we tolerate the pro lifers because we feel they have the right to dissent... fair enough... but every inch you give, these people take a mile... if they had their way we would be jailing people left and right...

being against contraception and against abortion is dumb... people are gonna have sex, stop trying to force them not to... what happens between me and my woman is between me and her and NOBODY ELSE... if we choose to terminate a pregnancy thats our choice, her choice... and i will defend these rights to the death... litterally...

[BJJ-Blue]

this one is brutal... to say that the most dangerous place for a baby is in a black womans womb... thats going too far...

So now speaking the truth is going too far? Are you really saying that, because this billboard was 100% true. Nearly 60% of all African-American pregnancies in NYC end in an abortion. 60%!!!

So tell us, what kills more African Americans children than this does? See, they were right.

And look at it this way: the liberal Democrats have done something even the Ku Klux Klan couldn't do. I bet the Klan loves seeing those numbers. They couldn't kill 60% of black children. They just laid back and let the liberal Democrats do it for them. So now we know the truth, if you want defenseless black children killed by the millions, just vote Democrat.