Guns Guns Guns....!!!

[Syn7]

so the other day im watching the news and i watched a story about that crazy b1tch that was kicked outta the minute men and made her own splinter group to "protect our borders" etc etc... you know the type, but she went much further... and of course, i dont need to tell yall that it was obviously arizona... again... :rolleyes:

i wont run off the story coz its pretty well known what happened... mom, lil girl and father shot, accused of being a drug runner and the house was ransacked loking for cash and other valuables... of course they were just a normal legal working family...

so anyways i was watching her testamony and apparently what happened was that after they shot mother father and child, she played dead and then they left and the mom was still alive and called 9/11... as she was on the phone they came back in and saw she was alive and ran back outside to get her cohorts and "finish her off" but she managed to get her husbands gun and shot at them, wounding one and saved her own life... she would have died FOR SURE if that gun wasnt in the house...

we can argue about conceal and carry all day but one thing i am very firm about is being able to have a gun in the home, ready to be used if needed... had she had a rifle in the closet and the ammo in the garage she would have been dead...


discuss...

[mooyingmantis]

so the other day im watching the news and i watched a story about that crazy b1tch that was kicked outta the minute men and made her own splinter group to "protect our borders" etc etc... you know the type, but she went much further... and of course, i dont need to tell yall that it was obviously arizona... again... :rolleyes:

i wont run off the story coz its pretty well known what happened... mom, lil girl and father shot, accused of being a drug runner and the house was ransacked loking for cash and other valuables... of course they were just a normal legal working family...

so anyways i was watching her testamony and apparently what happened was that after they shot mother father and child, she played dead and then they left and the mom was still alive and called 9/11... as she was on the phone they came back in and saw she was alive and ran back outside to get her cohorts and "finish her off" but she managed to get her husbands gun and shot at them, wounding one and saved her own life... she would have died FOR SURE if that gun wasnt in the house...

we can argue about conceal and carry all day but one thing i am very firm about is being able to have a gun in the home, ready to be used if needed... had she had a rifle in the closet and the ammo in the garage she would have been dead...


discuss...

Your story doesn't make sense. She, her, they all need names. And just because it may have been reported in your area doesn't mean the story was picked up everywhere. So link the story please, or give less jumbled details.

Who answers when you call 9/11? Dead terrorists? :) I think emergency operators still use 9-1-1 or possibly just 911.

Also, apostrophes are your friend. This bulletin board has a spell checker bud.

[Syn7]

it was all over the news... just google it... maybe it wasnt played in some town with a pop. of 4, but it was played on your national news programs as well as international programs...

9/11 was just a mistake, obviously... im sorry you had trouble with that...


i dont care about spell check, punctuation, grammar etc... its a casual forum... yes i can write properly, i just couldnt be bothered for you guys...



i think maybe you missed my whole point richard... the story doesnt matter... i can find a million examples of where a gun saved a life, or took one... the point of the story is that having a gun can save your life... and that having it stored away in a locker with the ammo on the other side of the house under lock and key as well may seem responsible, but it doesnt help u when you have 20 seconds and ur full of holes...


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arizona+minute+men+murder+gun

all simple key words i used in the post, and not even very specific. i could have narrowed the search perameters even more but i chose too make a point and just use "arizona minute men murder gun"

im sorry thats difficult for you... enjoy...


oh and i saw the testamony on anderson cooper 360.... is that national enough???

[mooyingmantis]

i dont care about spell check, punctuation, grammar etc... its a casual forum... yes i can write properly, i just couldnt be bothered for you guys...

i think maybe you missed my whole point richard... the story doesnt matter... i can find a million examples of where a gun saved a life, or took one... the point of the story is that having a gun can save your life... and that having it stored away in a locker with the ammo on the other side of the house under lock and key as well may seem responsible, but it doesnt help u when you have 20 seconds and ur full of holes...


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arizona+minute+men+murder+gun

oh and i saw the testamony on anderson cooper 360.... is that national enough???

i just couldnt be bothered for you guys... LOL!!! Sorry to hear you have so little regard for us. Perhaps a more dummied down site where members all type like ten year olds would be a better place for your diatribes.

Thank you for the link!

As for your opinion on firearms, stated above, I don't have a beef with that. I am a pro-gun NRA pistol instructor. Barring a felony, domestic violence offense, or a mental illness, I would like to see every adult citizen owning a firearm for personal protection. .45 is faster than 911 any day!

[David Jamieson]

That was a story that had a lot of facts about a criminal action carried out by a notorious person. Given the nature of American culture, I don't see how the outcome could have been different at this time.

Guns are so prolifically embedded into the American culture and psyche that it is probably downright impossible to enact any sort of legislation that would move towards further restrictions beyond those that already exist.

City and state bylaws are really the only measures that can be taken in regards to how one can arm themselves ie: conceal carry, open carry, in he home and so on.

Pandora's box is open, it's probably best to sort how to deal with that through more and better education about guns.

[Syn7]

i just couldnt be bothered for you guys... LOL!!! Sorry to hear you have so little regard for us. Perhaps a more dummied down site where members all type like ten year olds would be a better place for your diatribes.

Thank you for the link!

As for your opinion on firearms, stated above, I don't have a beef with that. I am a pro-gun NRA pistol instructor. Barring a felony, domestic violence offense, or a mental illness, I would like to see every adult citizen owning a firearm for personal protection. .45 is faster than 911 any day!

haha... no no its not just YOU GUYS... i just mean anything informal like this...

just an old habit from when i used messenger...




the story was nothing more than a means of illustrating how a gun in the home can save your life... it had nothing to do with crazy people aside from the fact that they were a part of the real world example i chose to use... i chose that one cause it was news this week... fresh in minds... lol or so i assumed...


my opinion is different for where i live now, but i have lived in the US so im not just talking out of my ass... i lived in a place that had a huge urban gun culture, the wrong kind of urban gun culture...

having a gun in the home presents risks, obviously, but if everyone was educated and taught how to care for, use and be responsible with both handguns and long guns from day one, things would be better... of course this isnt a cure all for social ills...

in canada, i think we are more than ready to adopt a swiss type of model... but with more carry privileges... why bother to hide it... just have it out there, holstered... its no good anywhere else... its when it leaves your side that it becomes a liability...


and heres one more thing i know for sure... if kids where taught from day one, they wouldnt find them so fascinating and shoot themselves or someone else playing with it... that would eliminate alot of the worst gun deaths...

another issue to really consider is the american pharmaculture... anti depresants and a pistol is a bad combo alot of the time... we need to get a handle on our drug problem... north americans consume an INSANE amount of drugs... we are test subjects, no less... i can see some serious drawbacks of having a well armed continent of junkies... ya know what im sayin! scary thought... cause who knows where that will go...

and it goes on and on, so much to consider... but sticking to the fundamentals is where its at in my opinion... its the best we can do even if it isnt exactly good enough...

[mooyingmantis]

haha... no no its not just YOU GUYS... i just mean anything informal like this...

just an old habit from when i used messenger...




the story was nothing more than a means of illustrating how a gun in the home can save your life... it had nothing to do with crazy people aside from the fact that they were a part of the real world example i chose to use... i chose that one cause it was news this week... fresh in minds... lol or so i assumed...


my opinion is different for where i live now, but i have lived in the US so im not just talking out of my ass... i lived in a place that had a huge urban gun culture, the wrong kind of urban gun culture...

having a gun in the home presents risks, obviously, but if everyone was educated and taught how to care for, use and be responsible with both handguns and long guns from day one, things would be better... of course this isnt a cure all for social ills...

in canada, i think we are more than ready to adopt a swiss type of model... but with more carry privileges... why bother to hide it... just have it out there, holstered... its no good anywhere else... its when it leaves your side that it becomes a liability...


and heres one more thing i know for sure... if kids where taught from day one, they wouldnt find them so fascinating and shoot themselves or someone else playing with it... that would eliminate alot of the worst gun deaths...

another issue to really consider is the american pharmaculture... anti depresants and a pistol is a bad combo alot of the time... we need to get a handle on our drug problem... north americans consume an INSANE amount of drugs... we are test subjects, no less... i can see some serious drawbacks of having a well armed continent of junkies... ya know what im sayin! scary thought... cause who knows where that will go...

and it goes on and on, so much to consider... but sticking to the fundamentals is where its at in my opinion... its the best we can do even if it isnt exactly good enough...

I agree entirely!

As an NRA instructor, my first duty is to teach gun safety. My children have been around guns all their life. They have been taught safe storage and handling of firearms. Once the "mystery" is gone, usually the danger of a child handling a gun inappropriately is gone with it. My second duty is teaching proper shooting fundamentals. Once these two areas are understood, accidental shootings plummet.

I also prefer open carry to concealed carry. Some of our states, like Ohio, allow that in their constitutions. Though, as you stated, municipalities can still squash that.

Historically, the worst crime cities in the US have the most stringent gun control laws. Chicago, NYC and DC being our worst examples.

When President Obama first came into office, many gun owners were concerned. Most of his elected cabinet were strong firearm rights opponents. So far, he has not addressed the gun issue and we actually have more gun freedoms now than we have had in decades. Regardless of UN pressures, I don't believe our guns will not be going away any time soon.

Nice discussion!

[David Jamieson]

UN pressures?

lol, they have pretty much zero say in the domestic policies of any developed nation.
They are a guideline organization that has unfortunately been overrun with incompetence, negligence and corruption.

This is of course an extension of the buffoon governments as found everywhere and they are all complicit to each others failures.

I personally think that in a global sense, people are becoming more aware of teh global village and the inequities that are piling up.

Youth of all nations won't take this kind of crap governance and we are using old paradigms and old models. They have finally reached their expiry dates as far as that goes.

We should see some struggle between old guard and new guard entering and I think we shall see less acceptance of what is now the status quo as far as how things are done.

I can only hope that moving forward people make a real effort to work for the future and for people who do not yet exist instead of constantly cycling the tragedy of ass to mouth greed living that is going on with a vengeance in the world today.

No wonder the hillbilly religious people are actually shooting at us! No wonder the G20 can't get a quiet meeting place anywhere, no wonder these dictatorships are falling, no wonder there is no trust for secrecy in governance, no wonder there is support for real transparency.

there is common ground for all of us to stand on and it's getting easier and easier to find it.

[BJJ-Blue]

Historically, the worst crime cities in the US have the most stringent gun control laws. Chicago, NYC and DC being our worst examples.

So true. Of course the anti-gun crowd seems to ignore relevant facts such as this.

[SnowDog]

Actually NYC's crime rate has been slowly declining for the past couple decades even though they have some of the toughest anti-gun laws on the books.

And some states with very liberal gun laws have really high crime rates like NM and AZ

This issue isn't about more or less guns causing crime, it's not that black and white.

Most dangerous states -

1.NV
2.NM
3.LA
4.SC
5.TN
6.FL
7.DE
8.MD
9.AZ
10.AR

http://www.walletpop.com/2010/04/05/most-dangerous-states-crime-rankings-for-2010/

And here is the list of cities by crime rate (unfortunatly Chicago's #s weren't available) But DC was # 22 (pretty bad) and NYC was # 269 (below the natinonal average)

While Dallas (which allows concealed carry) was#52 and Albq (allows concealed and Open carry) was#77 (and with a population under 1million)

http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2010/City_crime_rate_2010-2011_hightolow.pdf

Which states allow concealed carry -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States


And I am not even close to being a liberal when it comes to Gun Laws, I'm a gun owner, my entire family are gun owners/ collectors and over 50% of us have our concealed carry permits.

Just pointing out, that just because people are able to carry doesn't magically drop the crime rate.

Hell if that were the case the late 19th century in the west would have been the most peaceful time in American history.

[Syn7]

thanx for the links... ;)




Actually NYC's crime rate has been slowly declining for the past couple decades...

i honestly believe that alot of that has to do with 'Roe v. Wade'...





is anyone shocked to see nevada at #1 .... its not the guns tho, its the attitude... i dont mean in just arizona, i mean all cities everywhere have social ills that are directly attributed to the way of life in these areas...


too bad white collar crooks are rarely prosecuted... i imagine that would change the numbers drastically....

steal a car, go to prison... steal 40 billion from average folks, go on vacation...

[BJJ-Blue]

Arizona and New Mexico border Mexico....

[SnowDog]

Arizona and New Mexico border Mexico....

And this means what????

TX and CA also Border Mexico and neither of them were listed as states in the most dangerous with highest crime rates per population.

And the other 8 on that list do NOT border Mexico, also virtually all the states on that list allow concealed carry.

[BJJ-Blue]

And this means what????

This may be news to you, but right now the drug war is causing alot of violence around the border, and Americans have been killed. Phoenix has had a huge jump in violent crime, and many of the victims are illegals, and it's being blamed on drug violence.

This is a major reason Arizona would like stronger laws against illegals, but of course the community organizer is siding with the illegals instead of American citizens/taxpayers. Which begs the question; Why would a President of the United States side with illegal aliens over American citizens? :eek:


And the other 8 on that list do NOT border Mexico, also virtually all the states on that list allow concealed carry.

2 things: 1) Cities are a better gauge than States, as many liberal cities have gun laws stricter than other cities in the same State. 2) Your statistics included vehicle theft, which is not a violent crime. I'd like sources that only measure violent crime. A violent crime needs a human victim (which can be armed), while a vehicle theft only involves an empty car.

[Syn7]

Arizona and New Mexico border Mexico....

must be the dirty lazy mexicans...


you never did explain why the rest of the border states, or cities, dont boast the same numbers... maybe the drug crazzed mexicans are selective with which states the kill in...

or maybe places like arizona provide greater opportunity for these dirty mexicans???


your vehicle excuse doesnt fly... crime is crime... do you really think the numbers would change that much if we added in all sorts of burglary and the like??? oh wait, they did :rolleyes:
i love how you try to deflect and misdirect again by inserting the word violent... a sad try... you must think we are all retarded huh... that may fly with your kind, but not with people who think straight...
go find some stats and prove me wrong...