Would you wrestle a girl?

[GeneChing]

I know, this thread will probably go south quick, but perhaps some of the more attentive members here will take this on as a serious subject. It's been all over the news.

After Making History, Iowa Female Wrestler Loses In State Quarterfinals (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/02/18/133869693/after-making-history-iowa-female-wrestler-loses-in-state-quarterfinals?ps=cprs)
01:46 pm
February 18, 2011

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/02/18/girl_wrestler_default_6261468_wide.jpg?t=129805450 6&s=3
Cedar Falls' Cassy Herkelman, top, wrestles with Indianola's Matt Victor in a Class 3A 112 pound quarterfinal match.

Cassy Herkelman made history, yesterday. The high school freshman became the first girl to win a wrestling match at the Iowa state wrestling tournament. Unlike other states, in Iowa there is no separate circuit for female wrestling, so girls are forced to compete with the boys.

But, as CBS news reports, Herkelman's win didn't arrive in storybook form: Just as she and her opponent, Joel Northrup, were about to take to the mat, Northrup let the judges know he was forfeiting the match. Wrestling is a combat sport, Northrup, who is home schooled, said in a statement, and "as a matter of conscience" and "faith," he could not compete.

The statement went on:

"I don't believe there are any specific pieces of Scripture that address this particular issue. But as men, the Bible talks to us about loving our wives, protecting our families, being there, as an older brother, just to protect his home and his sisters.

"And so, I would say that's more of a principle that we're following. We just don't believe that in a combat sport, a boy should be going against a girl in this manner."

This year, two girls made it to the tournament, which is a big deal in Iowa. The other girl, Megan Black, was knocked out of the tournament last night. And today, Herkelman did get to wrestle, but, the AP reports, she "lost 5-1 on points to Indianola's Matt Victor in their 112-pound matchup." And then, reports the Des Moines Register, she was bumped from the tournament after a loss to Jordan Jones in a consolation match.

The conflict at the center of the match, though, is still being dissected nationwide. Sean Keeler, a columnist at the Des Moines Register, has a stellar piece that looks at all sides.

He notes that Herkelman made it to the tournament by beating boys. She deserved to be there. He notes that Northrup gave up a chance at a state title and that's no easy thing. He points to 1965, when the Dodgers' Sandy Koufax bowed out of pitching game one of the World Series because it was Yom Kippur.

He reports that the parents on all sides agree that if it was truly religious conviction that led Northrup to refuse to wrestle a girl, then that's OK:

"I know Cassy is disappointed not to get on the mat with him," Bill Herkelman, Cassy's dad, would say later. "But it's their belief, they're very strict in that, and I support that."

Bill knows the stakes, the sweat, the grind that all parties put in just to get here: He wrestled at Indianola during his high school days and only made it to state once, as a senior. The highest Joel, who came in with a 35-4 record, can finish this weekend is third place.

"I have to applaud the Northrup family for sticking with their convictions on the biggest stage in Iowa, if not the nation," he said, matter-of-factly.

[MightyB]

Honestly I think they need a women's division. This is clearly PC gone overboard. I truly feel bad for the kid in that the state put him into this position.
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So when are they going to integrate volleyball or field hockey? And why have separate men's and women's divisions in tennis, or soccer, or boxing...
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Some boy should enter the match and grope her. That'd stop this BS.

[Syn7]

gene this is VERY serious... it speaks volumes...


yeah i just saw that story elsewhere on tv... from what i got out of the thing i saw was that his family didnt want him to go thru with it..; for religious reasons :rolleyes: ...

another sexual hangup??? i think its cause they were afraid their son might touch her inapropriately, i dont mean on purpose... heaven forbid he should touch a girl... they play it off like they are being righteous and its just not fair to put a man against a woman, which is seriously sexist as it is, but im not totally buying it... were talking bout a kid who is sheltered... home schooled at that... IMO its these kinds of people that hold society back in its ever failing quest for national cohesion...


i think his mommy is just afraid he'll touch a boobie!!!! :eek:


and for the record, in high school we werent allowed to wrestle the girls... but the two teams practiced in the same space at the same times and we rolled together anyways... it was fun... tossing chicas around and then getting taken down by some oversized chica with mean in her eyes... it was great and we all got better from the practice, but more importantly, we broke the rules we saw is sexist and in a social capacity it made us bettter people... while the adults were horrified, the kids were showing what true equal rights and respect is...


i feel sorry for women wrestlers who have to have their first recorded win as a default win... they should be thankful for that being taken away from them forever... what should be a story about equality and freedom of expression instead becomes a story about sexism and sexual hangups... AGAIN... good job iowa...

yeah they should have a womens division... but women that are truly on another level and clean the floor with all the other girls should be able to step it up and go roll with the boys... like in hockey basebal football, if they can hack it they deserve to be there...

and wrestling is a combat sport but its hardly a rough and dangerous sport... football has WAAAAAAAY more injuries... wrestling is pretty tame and safe as far as that goes... i mean to say it was coz he didnt wanna be rough with women is sexist and implies women cant take it like a man can... its not like it was a kickboxing or mma match...

[BJJ-Blue]

I'd refuse.

You can't win. If you win, you're the guy who beat the girl. If you lose, you're the guy who lost to the girl. I was at a BJJ tournament once and a girl entered it, she was not in my division. Her first match, everyone in that gym was watching. She pretty much dominated the guy, and when she tapped him out the place erupted. I felt bad for that guy, he really was in a no win situation. I'd bet if he had tapped her out, he would have been booed or laughed at.

Here is the video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBfIHLLvACs

[Syn7]

I'd refuse.

You can't win. If you win, you're the guy who beat the girl. If you lose, you're the guy who lost to the girl. I was at a BJJ tournament once and a girl entered it, she was not in my division. Her first match, everyone in that gym was watching. She pretty much dominated the guy, and when she tapped him out the place erupted. I felt bad for that guy, he really was in a no win situation. I'd bet if he had tapped her out, he would have been booed or laughed at.

so you dont want to wrestle a girl because beating her is no big deal and loosing would have you laughed at??? and you dont see how that is a massively sexist comment do you??? you just dont see it at all, huh???

how about this, give her a fair shake and treat her like a human rather than treating her as just a woman... she got there thru merrit, not some token invite... you are a sad little man...

if a woman is better than i am and bested me i would give all the respect i would give a man for doing the same thing... NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS... thats what EQUALITY is all about...

*palm to face*:rolleyes:

[BJJ-Blue]

Twist the words however you want. Men and women are different. You may hate to hear it, but it's true. I've rolled with women, gotten tapped out by women, tapped out women, been instructed by women, and on and on. But in a competition, I would not go up against a woman. We divide people in divisions based on age, rank, and weight. Why should we not divide them based on sex? It's ridiculous not to.

[Syn7]

Twist the words however you want. Men and women are different. You may hate to hear it, but it's true. I've rolled with women, gotten tapped out by women, tapped out women, been instructed by women, and on and on. But in a competition, I would not go up against a woman. We divide people in divisions based on age, rank, and weight. Why should we not divide them based on sex? It's ridiculous not to.

because a woman who is the same age and weight who earned their spot by beating all comers, male or female, in their divisions deserve a fair shot... im not asking anyone to throw a 120 lb woman into a cage with a 140lb man twice her age oir anything... im just saying she deserves her due and her accomplishments more than speak for themselves as far as wether she deserves to be there or not... all i ask is she be treated as an equal when she EARNED that spot...

and you also took the sexist route by statting how its a lose lose situation... the right thing to do would be to take a stand and get laughed at by idiot sexists if need be to ensure this girl gets the repect she has earned... EARNED... she is not a token, she got there by winning...

i never said women didnt deserve their own divisions so more could compete... im saying those of exeptional ability deserve to be recognized for their hard work and treated with equality and respect...

again, im about liberties, and its her right to compete and this lil kid took that away from her... even if it was just one match...

ofcourse you can argue that it is also his right to discriminate... and i agree to an extent... he shouldnt be forced to wrestle her and he can bow out if he wants... im saying he and his fam are little sexist *****s for doing it... and its my right to say that...

[Lucas]

so am i the only one going to point out the obvious?


young boys wrastlin with girls might become errect, without their control, in the middle of the match.


flame all you want, we all know im right. so if the wrestlers are in a very awkward postions due to the match and he starts poking her accidentally, she better not get ****ed off.

sure it wont happen every match, but i can guarantee it would eventually happen, either way it will distract the boy trying to keep a hard on under control while trying to mind free so he can actually wrestle. its an anxiety that WILL effect your actual wrestling performance.

how about when that one boy got his anus penetrated, just imagine if a boy did that technique even without the actual penetration on a female. people would blow up, but it should be completely allowed if you can do it to a guy. or guess what, its not an equal match.

in a competative sport its about being on an equal level with your opponent, hockey and wrestling are in no way on the same level in regards to person on person contact. if you cant keep the co-ed playing field completely level, which i dont beleve you can with wrestling, then its not going to work out right.

[Lucas]

oh but for the record id totally wrestle a chick, as an adult lol, as a boy i dont think i would have wanted to, id be the boy with the rager....:eek:

[Syn7]

lol... it just wasnt an issue when i was doing it in highschool... we took our craft seriously and so did they... ofcourse boys rock wood for no reasom randomly, but they are alsoo usually good at finding way to hide it and find excuses to run away...

"uumm bathroom, I NEED TO GO TO THE BATHROOM!!!!!!!!!!"


seriously tho... it wasnt an issue... besides, i had steady GF's thru highschool... and we "wrestled" more than enough... and i never saw anyone else get embarassed that way... ofcourse some made jokes of the possibility... just being kids... but it wasnt out of hand or anything and everyone got along fine... although we did get in trouble numerous times for rolling... we werent allowed... we did it in protest to what we saw as sexist... it first they were harsh about it and we all did alot of afterschool time over it, but eventually when they saw we werent backing down they just started acting like it wasnt happening... like, ok its still against the rules and we dont want to SEE it... if they walked in on it we stopped and that was when the class started anyways so we would seperate...

[Lucas]

ya we werent allowed when i was in highschool and personally i was **** thankful, cuz i know it would distract me. teenage boys are teenage boys.

[KC Elbows]

I do kung fu, so I would obviously not be foolish enough to go to the ground, get cut by broken glass, kicked by her friends waiting for me to go to the ground, etc. I would eye gouge her, if she went for a double leg I'd elbow her in the spine, if it did go to the ground, obviously I'd bite her.

[Lucas]

dude just do a horse stance then she cant take you down.

[goju]

this is a big deal on local radio show right now apparently the boy cant wrestler her do to religious reasons as he would be touching her private parts :rolleyes:

by that logic why is he wrestling men then since that could be interpreted as being ****erotic? The guys is just making excuses because he doesnt want to lose to a woman:rolleyes:

[Lucas]

im tellin ya, he fears the wresling rager!

[Syn7]

im tellin ya, he fears the wresling rager!

thats "wrasslin' rager"!!!

[Hebrew Hammer]

My cousin actually lost to a girl in High School wrestling in Northern California, of course I couldn't let that go...if I had ever lost to chic in any sporting contest I would have never heard the end of it!!!!

[GeneChing]

Andy Kaufman wrestles a 327 pound woman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uQlB99WCuk)

It sparked quite the controversy back in the day. I always wrote it off to brilliant comedy, but it certainly touched a nerve.

As a fencer, I fenced (and lost) to a lot of women. But that's a totally different situation as there's no body contact (at least, there's not supposed to be any) and women excel at the sport. By that I mean that the proportion of women fencers to men fencers is much more equal than in wrestling.

If you allow men and women mixed wrestling, it really opens Pandora's box when it comes to other fight sports.

[TaichiMantis]

As a woman, I would rather test myself against a guy, unfortunately my most likely attacker in real life...:(

[Hebrew Hammer]

Andy Kaufman wrestles a 327 pound woman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uQlB99WCuk)

It sparked quite the controversy back in the day. I always wrote it off to brilliant comedy, but it certainly touched a nerve.

As a fencer, I fenced (and lost) to a lot of women. But that's a totally different situation as there's no body contact (at least, there's not supposed to be any) and women excel at the sport. By that I mean that the proportion of women fencers to men fencers is much more equal than in wrestling.

If you allow men and women mixed wrestling, it really opens Pandora's box when it comes to other fight sports.

He was the Borat of his time...

[YouKnowWho]

I had wrestled with many women before. Sometime you just can't be too picky about what kind of wrestling partner that you may get. Any wrestling partner is better than no wrestling partner.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7203/robinthrow.jpg (http://img844.imageshack.us/i/robinthrow.jpg/)