any good wing tsun/ wing chun school in london

[edreel200]

hi guys i am new here
i am interested to start wing chun classes for self deffence and fitness, and the sort of wing chung i like is the jose grados, or victor gutierez style of wing chun, because they teach you drills on how to apply in real life situation.
any recomendation on which schools have good teaches that don't hold back and teaches the art properly, and how to apply in the street.

i live in south east london, was considering uk wing chun association in lee green, or victor kan in se1.
or any other schools that teaches the sort of things mentioned above.

i appreciate you help.

thank you

[Hardwork108]

hi guys i am new here
i am interested to start wing chun classes for self deffence and fitness, and the sort of wing chung i like is the jose grados, or victor gutierez style of wing chun, because they teach you drills on how to apply in real life situation.
any recomendation on which schools have good teaches that don't hold back and teaches the art properly, and how to apply in the street.

i live in south east london, was considering uk wing chun association in lee green, or victor kan in se1.
or any other schools that teaches the sort of things mentioned above.

i appreciate you help.

thank you

I have heard good things about Victor Kan. Perhaps you can drop by his kwoon and have a look. :)

I have also heard good things about Samuel Kwok, whose kwoon has a branch in South London, I believe.

[edreel200]

hi hardwork108.

thanks for the reply mate, quite a few people said they heard good things about victor kan, but no one yet actualy told of his or her experience when they visited there. or trained there

i read on the net from a couple of people that went to have a look and they only allowed them 5 mins to look and they described the atmosphere like a prison, strict and not friedly. also i heard somewhere else that victor kan is not a friendly person himself.
the reason i want to gather as much info on schools before i go look round, is because i don't have a lot of time, i work i have a family, and unfortunately i can only go visit one school a week.

so that's why i am trying to get as much info as i can on the web, before paying a school a visit.

cheers mate

[kempoline1]

Please have a look at www.londonwslwingchun.com

Classes in Stratford, Tooting and Victoria

Jason

[Hardwork108]

hi hardwork108.

thanks for the reply mate, quite a few people said they heard good things about victor kan, but no one yet actualy told of his or her experience when they visited there. or trained there

i read on the net from a couple of people that went to have a look and they only allowed them 5 mins to look and they described the atmosphere like a prison, strict and not friedly. also i heard somewhere else that victor kan is not a friendly person himself.
the reason i want to gather as much info on schools before i go look round, is because i don't have a lot of time, i work i have a family, and unfortunately i can only go visit one school a week.

so that's why i am trying to get as much info as i can on the web, before paying a school a visit.

cheers mate

Hello Edreel,

Even though most of my experience is in Wing Chun, I have never trained with Victor Kan. When I spent 4 years in London relatively recently, I looked for Wing Chun schools in London that practiced a Mainland Chinese (as opposed to Hong Kong) lineage similar to what I have experience in.

However, I was unsuccessful. Fortunately I found a Southern Mantis School that taught the real deal kung fu. My sifu in that school mentioned in passing that as far as Wing Chun sifus in London go, Victor Kan recommendable. Also, he seems to have been around for decades. So, that may be a positive sign, eventhough nowadays one must still be careful when choosing any kung fu school.

I would suggest that you visit their school and perhaps ask to take a try out class, or classes. That would be the best way to find out, otherwise you would be relying on other people's perception of the school, which may or may not be right.

Anyway, if you do visit and train at his school, then it will be interesting to read your take of the whole thing.:)

[edreel200]

Hello Edreel,

Even though most of my experience is in Wing Chun, I have never trained with Victor Kan. When I spent 4 years in London relatively recently, I looked for Wing Chun schools in London that practiced a Mainland Chinese (as opposed to Hong Kong) lineage similar to what I have experience in.

However, I was unsuccessful. Fortunately I found a Southern Mantis School that taught the real deal kung fu. My sifu in that school mentioned in passing that as far as Wing Chun sifus in London go, Victor Kan recommendable. Also, he seems to have been around for decades. So, that may be a positive sign, eventhough nowadays one must still be careful when choosing any kung fu school.

I would suggest that you visit their school and perhaps ask to take a try out class, or classes. That would be the best way to find out, otherwise you would be relying on other people's perception of the school, which may or may not be right.

Anyway, if you do visit and train at his school, then it will be interesting to read your take of the whole thing.:)

thanks hardwork 108 for the advise mate, i will probably do just that.
another thing is i got some good feedback on a sifu pasco david who was taught by victor kan so i will check him out as well
i always had a passion for wing chun to do it since i was in my twenties, but never had a chance due to family commitment, so thats why i dont want to waste some years then realise i was taught the watered down version of wing chun, i think the best thing
is go and have a look for my self.
but can i ask you when i go and have a look what are the things to look out for or ask to determin that this is a good school, or this is a good sifu?

cheers for that mate

[Hardwork108]

thanks hardwork 108 for the advise mate, i will probably do just that.
another thing is i got some good feedback on a sifu pasco david who was taught by victor kan so i will check him out as well
i always had a passion for wing chun to do it since i was in my twenties, but never had a chance due to family commitment, so thats why i dont want to waste some years then realise i was taught the watered down version of wing chun, i think the best thing
is go and have a look for my self.
but can i ask you when i go and have a look what are the things to look out for or ask to determin that this is a good school, or this is a good sifu?

cheers for that mate

Hey, you are welcome.

Before I answer your question, let me just say that my kung fu experience, both in Wing Chun and in Southern Praying Mantis has been or the Traditional variety. That means the basics, including the correct roots, angles and lines are drilled into one before he does anything else.

That means, looking at a new school, I would not be looking for the "lets spar from day one, so that we can learn to fight quickly" system. In my humble opinion, which is based on experience, as far as real kung fu is concerned, it is best to learn certain aspects first before going on to actual fighting training. These include, proper rooting, without which one's kung fu becomes just a glorified form of kick boxing.

Then one would need to learn at least the basics to proper dantien breathing, which despite popular belief, incorporates more than breathing out when you are hitting somebody.

Going on...many kung fu styles have their distinct way of punching. That means it is better to learn how to punch properly, before one decides to stress test oneself during actual combat training.

So, what I am getting at is that if I walk into a school and see new students/beginners sparring then I will not be impressed. If I see the advanced students sparring, without using kung fu rooting, then I will not be impressed either.

Also, in both of my Wing Chun and Southern Mantis practice, weight training was discouraged. Both schools had different, but potent methodologies to build power. So, Wing Chun schools that used weight training is something else I would avoid.

Of course, having said that, I know there are ways to weight train in such styles without contradicting certain principles, which are usually the internal ones. So, when you don't come across any sifu who can teach you the alternative ways of building power (that is the Internal way- which has nothing to do with shooting death rays out of ones hands....lol), then perhaps some careful weight training may be the order of the day.


Yet, I have seen zero weight training in the Mantis school, while having experienced immense power generation. The same goes for the Mainland Chinese Wing Chun, albeit using a different power generation and body unity mechanism to that of the Mantis. So, there are other ways for power and strength development, unfortunately not many schools teach them (mainly because they have absolutely no idea).

Of course, at the end of the day, if you personally, are looking for "quick results" then you may want to train in a "modernized" Wing Chun school, that will spar (like in kick boxing), and do weight training. However, if you are looking for the more traditional approach then find one that will teach you the basics thoroughly.

Once you learn the basics of Wing Chun - roots, posture, relaxation, breathing and the actual principles and concepts, then you will be ahead of most people who claim Wing Chun knowledge, yes even some so called instructors, so prevelant in this day and age of Mcdojos/kwoons.;)

So, to conclude. I would personally look for schools that take their time in teaching the basics. Schools, who are not concernd in making the classes too entertaining for the students. Small sized classes are another aspect you should be looking for. If it looks boring then there is a good chance that it is good, but of course, not always.

Also, I would avoid schools that say, "we have mixed our WC with, bla, bla, bla, to make it street effective. Personally, if I see that, then the "clueless sifu" alert goes off in my head.

Anyway, I talked too much. I hope the points come across clearly. :)

[Graham H]

Edreel

If you are looking for good quality Ving Tsun in London then contact Desmond Spencer who runs several classes in different areas of London. He doesn't advertise but you can find his contact details on Philipp Bayers website or I can provide.

Desmond Spencer was one of Victor Kans top students for many years but after meeting Philipp his idea of Ving Tsun was changed as it was for me.

I used to learn from students of Victor Kan and Sam Kwok a long time ago and wasn't happy with what I was being taught. Each to their own I guess but Philipp Bayers Ving Tsun is second to none in my opinion. ;)

Graham H

[bennyvt]

Yeh id go for the bayer guy over Victor Kan. ;)

[edreel200]

Hey, you are welcome.

Before I answer your question, let me just say that my kung fu experience, both in Wing Chun and in Southern Praying Mantis has been or the Traditional variety. That means the basics, including the correct roots, angles and lines are drilled into one before he does anything else.

That means, looking at a new school, I would not be looking for the "lets spar from day one, so that we can learn to fight quickly" system. In my humble opinion, which is based on experience, as far as real kung fu is concerned, it is best to learn certain aspects first before going on to actual fighting training. These include, proper rooting, without which one's kung fu becomes just a glorified form of kick boxing.

Then one would need to learn at least the basics to proper dantien breathing, which despite popular belief, incorporates more than breathing out when you are hitting somebody.

Going on...many kung fu styles have their distinct way of punching. That means it is better to learn how to punch properly, before one decides to stress test oneself during actual combat training.

So, what I am getting at is that if I walk into a school and see new students/beginners sparring then I will not be impressed. If I see the advanced students sparring, without using kung fu rooting, then I will not be impressed either.

Also, in both of my Wing Chun and Southern Mantis practice, weight training was discouraged. Both schools had different, but potent methodologies to build power. So, Wing Chun schools that used weight training is something else I would avoid.

Of course, having said that, I know there are ways to weight train in such styles without contradicting certain principles, which are usually the internal ones. So, when you don't come across any sifu who can teach you the alternative ways of building power (that is the Internal way- which has nothing to do with shooting death rays out of ones hands....lol), then perhaps some careful weight training may be the order of the day.


Yet, I have seen zero weight training in the Mantis school, while having experienced immense power generation. The same goes for the Mainland Chinese Wing Chun, albeit using a different power generation and body unity mechanism to that of the Mantis. So, there are other ways for power and strength development, unfortunately not many schools teach them (mainly because they have absolutely no idea).

Of course, at the end of the day, if you personally, are looking for "quick results" then you may want to train in a "modernized" Wing Chun school, that will spar (like in kick boxing), and do weight training. However, if you are looking for the more traditional approach then find one that will teach you the basics thoroughly.

Once you learn the basics of Wing Chun - roots, posture, relaxation, breathing and the actual principles and concepts, then you will be ahead of most people who claim Wing Chun knowledge, yes even some so called instructors, so prevelant in this day and age of Mcdojos/kwoons.;)

So, to conclude. I would personally look for schools that take their time in teaching the basics. Schools, who are not concernd in making the classes too entertaining for the students. Small sized classes are another aspect you should be looking for. If it looks boring then there is a good chance that it is good, but of course, not always.

Also, I would avoid schools that say, "we have mixed our WC with, bla, bla, bla, to make it street effective. Personally, if I see that, then the "clueless sifu" alert goes off in my head.

Anyway, I talked too much. I hope the points come across clearly. :)

well i suppose your right in what ur saying and i value your advice, but the thing is i am not a young man anymore, i am in early fourties, and i feel if i joint a school that take me say 10 or 15 years to become good at wc , then by that time i will be an old man. but in the other hand i don't want to be taught wc that dont serve me well in my life.
you mentioned when you check out a school, one of the questions you ask them is do they do any sparring if yes then you walk away. i thought the school that does sparring , and real life drills is good cos it helps with your reflexes and prepares you for real life situations.
don't schools that teach cwc spar at all? or when do they start sparring?
anyway i am still new to all this, and forgive me if some of my questions sound stupid
i am just trying to learn cos there is a lot of info on the web that leaves some newbie like me scratching his head.

i appreciate your help.

[edreel200]

Edreel

If you are looking for good quality Ving Tsun in London then contact Desmond Spencer who runs several classes in different areas of London. He doesn't advertise but you can find his contact details on Philipp Bayers website or I can provide.

Desmond Spencer was one of Victor Kans top students for many years but after meeting Philipp his idea of Ving Tsun was changed as it was for me.

I used to learn from students of Victor Kan and Sam Kwok a long time ago and wasn't happy with what I was being taught. Each to their own I guess but Philipp Bayers Ving Tsun is second to none in my opinion. ;)

Graham H

thanks mate. i got his number from phillip bayer website, i will give him a call tomorrow.

cheers

[GlennR]

well i suppose your right in what ur saying and i value your advice, but the thing is i am not a young man anymore, i am in early fourties, and i feel if i joint a school that take me say 10 or 15 years to become good at wc , then by that time i will be an old man. but in the other hand i don't want to be taught wc that dont serve me well in my life.
you mentioned when you check out a school, one of the questions you ask them is do they do any sparring if yes then you walk away. i thought the school that does sparring , and real life drills is good cos it helps with your reflexes and prepares you for real life situations.
don't schools that teach cwc spar at all? or when do they start sparring?
anyway i am still new to all this, and forgive me if some of my questions sound stupid
i am just trying to learn cos there is a lot of info on the web that leaves some newbie like me scratching his head.

i appreciate your help.

Hi Edreel
I think you should follow your own thoughts.... logic over nonsense
GlennR

[bennyvt]

I think he means if you spar in the first weeks etc. You should be sparing once you can actually do some of the moves. Sparing straight away just ingrains bad habits that take heaps to get out. Get the moves then spar with it.

[edreel200]

I think he means if you spar in the first weeks etc. You should be sparing once you can actually do some of the moves. Sparing straight away just ingrains bad habits that take heaps to get out. Get the moves then spar with it.

ok i understand. well i will go and visit some of these schools and see it for my self then make a decision.

cheers mate

[LSWCTN1]

Where abouts in SE London are you?

My instructor teaches in Lewisham/Catford, just behind the Mosque.

[Hardwork108]

I think he means if you spar in the first weeks etc. You should be sparing once you can actually do some of the moves. Sparing straight away just ingrains bad habits that take heaps to get out. Get the moves then spar with it.
That is exactly what I mean and thanks Bennyvt.






ok i understand. well i will go and visit some of these schools and see it for my self then make a decision.

Because of the "unusualness" of many kung fu methodologies, it is best to first learn things like posture, stance and have some comprehension of their relationship with each other before you go onto sparring.

Also, don't worry about your age. I started my Wing Chun training in my late 30s. The Mainland Chinese WC's training was hard and ardeous, with a lot of stance work, including wider and deeper Shaolin ones, as well as Iron Palm and Iron body, leg work (there are a lot more kicks in Wing Chun then many believe) etc. However, no worries.

If you want it, then it is only a question of mind over matter. Of course, I doubt that many Hong Kong varients will practice deep stances, but I was trying to illustrate my point. :)

It is also worth mentioning that if you train regularly with a genuine sifu (which unfortunately are in the very, very small minority of kung fu instructors today), you should be able to take care of yourself within three years, using actual kung fu techniques instead of glorified kickboxing ones, which is sadly the case for the majority of practioners who claim "kung fu" knowledge.

That is the real "nonsense" regarding the current Traditional Chinese Martial Arts situation. ;)

[edreel200]

Because of the "unusualness" of many kung fu methodologies, it is best to first learn things like posture, stance and have some comprehension of their relationship with each other before you go onto sparring.

Also, don't worry about your age. I started my Wing Chun training in my late 30s. The Mainland Chinese WC's training was hard and ardeous, with a lot of stance work, including wider and deeper Shaolin ones, as well as Iron Palm and Iron body, leg work (there are a lot more kicks in Wing Chun then many believe) etc. However, no worries.

If you want it, then it is only a question of mind over matter. Of course, I doubt that many Hong Kong varients will practice deep stances, but I was trying to illustrate my point. :)

It is also worth mentioning that if you train regularly with a genuine sifu (which unfortunately are in the very, very small minority of kung fu instructors today), you should be able to take care of yourself within three years, using actual kung fu techniques instead of glorified kickboxing ones, which is sadly the case for the majority of practioners who claim "kung fu" knowledge.

That is the real "nonsense" regarding the current Traditional Chinese Martial Arts situation. ;)[/QUOTE]

you have made my day with your wise and encouraging words, and i am gaining some fundamental knowledge that hopefuly will set me on the right track.
all i need now is find some good sifu and start the hard work.

another question i was willing to ask which is slightly off topic, why is there a lot of people on the net bashing wc and saying its not street efective, like mma and straight punches are not powerfull and what not?


thanks for all your help

[edreel200]

Where abouts in SE London are you?

My instructor teaches in Lewisham/Catford, just behind the Mosque.

well i live in catford i heard about michael louison which is down the road from me.

what do u think about him?

[Hardwork108]

you have made my day with your wise and encouraging words, and i am gaining some fundamental knowledge that hopefuly will set me on the right track.
all i need now is find some good sifu and start the hard work.

Thank you for your kind words.:)


another question i was willing to ask which is slightly off topic, why is there a lot of people on the net bashing wc and saying its not street efective, like mma and straight punches are not powerfull and what not?

That phenomenon is connected exactly to what I was saying in my last post. The majority of people who have been exposed to Wing Chun, have done so as regards the watered down/fused/made up/standardized/commercial variety.

As a result many of them have gone on to find more fighting and self defense relevance in MMA, kickboxing and so on. These systems are less profound, but more time efficient in giving one fighting abilities in the short term, than Wing Chun and most other kung fu styles.

Eventually this type of martial "evolution" results in these cross training or ex-"Wing Chun" practioners turning around and badmouthing an art that they themselves have never really studied.

Then there is the trickle down effect of others who have never even tried to practiced Wing Chun or Kung fu in general, jumping on the bandwagon of bad mouthing this style. They probably think that if "Wing Chun" practitioners are criticizing this art, then what they say must be true. LOL

It is a sad phenomenon, but this same situation holds true with other kung fu styles as well.

So again, I would avoid schools that spar from early on. Also, be vary of "sifus" who use the hard sell approach, which may include telling you about their school's sports competition medals. Be patient and have a look at quite a few schools.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.:)

[edreel200]

Thank you for your kind words.:)



That phenomenon is connected exactly to what I was saying in my last post. The majority of people who have been exposed to Wing Chun, have done so as regards the watered down/fused/made up/standardized/commercial variety.

As a result many of them have gone on to find more fighting and self defense relevance in MMA, kickboxing and so on. These systems are less profound, but more time efficient in giving one fighting abilities in the short term, than Wing Chun and most other kung fu styles.

Eventually this type of martial "evolution" results in these cross training or ex-"Wing Chun" practioners turning around and badmouthing an art that they themselves have never really studied.

Then there is the trickle down effect of others who have never even tried to practiced Wing Chun or Kung fu in general, jumping on the bandwagon of bad mouthing this style. They probably think that if "Wing Chun" practitioners are criticizing this art, then what they say must be true. LOL

It is a sad phenomenon, but this same situation holds true with other kung fu styles as well.

So again, I would avoid schools that spar from early on. Also, be vary of "sifus" who use the hard sell approach, which may include telling you about their school's sports competition medals. Be patient and have a look at quite a few schools.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.:)

thanks man:)
well i am glad that i posed my questions here first before i make up my mind.

now i need to check out more sifus from the wong cheng long lineage so if anybody know any sifu in south east london please do let me know.

regards

[Vajramusti]

thanks man:)
well i am glad that i posed my questions here first before i make up my mind.

now i need to check out more sifus from the wong cheng long lineage so if anybody know any sifu in south east london please do let me know.

regards
--------------------------------------------------------

A lineage can help some- provided the sifu himself/ herself is good.

I have met Victor Kan and have rolled with him.

I have not met Michael Louison- but a mutual friend and student of his(Louison) gave me a video of him.

You cant' go wrong with either- pick one you think you can learn from for a while and feel comfortable with and with your decision.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

IMHO There a far more Sifus to look for in London than mentioned here, but I do agree with what most are saying. It does depend on what you want, and may also depend on how much you have to spend!! :eek:

This is a pretty good online guide
http://londonwingchun.com/

I also know the Lee Shing family have Sifu Greg Holloway in South London
http://www.wingchunlondon.co.uk/

Good luck on your journey.

[LSWCTN1]

well i live in catford i heard about michael louison which is down the road from me.

what do u think about him?

look no further!

[LoneTiger108]

A neat clip here of Sifu Louison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm1EDpHRaC0

His site
http://www.wingchunart.co.uk/

Personally, I don't like that approach to training but his students look sound and that's what matters IMHO

[LSWCTN1]

A neat clip here of Sifu Louison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm1EDpHRaC0

His site
http://www.wingchunart.co.uk/

Personally, I don't like that approach to training but his students look sound and that's what matters IMHO

cant see the clip - im at work - but Im not really so sure how you dont like the approach? When i cross train with my Lee Shing instructors (who have both been training since 1971 ish) it marries in very nicely.

Joe Lee also told me I was in great hands ;)

[LoneTiger108]

cant see the clip - im at work - but Im not really so sure how you dont like the approach? When i cross train with my Lee Shing instructors (who have both been training since 1971 ish) it marries in very nicely.

I liked the clip, but I was talking more about his site and promotions. I have a 'twitch' that occurs whenever I see religion linked with Martial Arts! Nothing personal, but I just don't like that type of approach to promotions that's all.


Joe Lee also told me I was in great hands ;)

And you trained with Uncle Joe Lee for how long?

I'm having trouble remembering who you trained with in Lee Shing family. Wasn't it your father? Under Joseph Cheng? Or was that someone else? (sorry!)

[couch]

well i live in catford i heard about michael louison which is down the road from me.

what do u think about him?

I've never spoke with him, but have with his students. Based on my dialogue with them, I'd definitely check him out. They seem very polite and this would usually be an indication that the instructor isn't an an arrogant pr!ck.

Good luck on your search. Asking a forum honestly won't do you the justice of checking everyone out as you go. We're all brainwashed to a certain degree...

CTK

[couch]

I liked the clip, but I was talking more about his site and promotions. I have a 'twitch' that occurs whenever I see religion linked with Martial Arts! Nothing personal, but I just don't like that type of approach to promotions that's all.

On second thought, it IS personal for you. That's why you don't like it.

I have a twitch with anything 'traditional/classical.' And that's very personal. Being open about religion, however, is easier for me.

[ShortBridge]

Thank you for your kind words.:)



That phenomenon is connected exactly to what I was saying in my last post. The majority of people who have been exposed to Wing Chun, have done so as regards the watered down/fused/made up/standardized/commercial variety.

As a result many of them have gone on to find more fighting and self defense relevance in MMA, kickboxing and so on. These systems are less profound, but more time efficient in giving one fighting abilities in the short term, than Wing Chun and most other kung fu styles.

Eventually this type of martial "evolution" results in these cross training or ex-"Wing Chun" practioners turning around and badmouthing an art that they themselves have never really studied.

Then there is the trickle down effect of others who have never even tried to practiced Wing Chun or Kung fu in general, jumping on the bandwagon of bad mouthing this style. They probably think that if "Wing Chun" practitioners are criticizing this art, then what they say must be true. LOL

It is a sad phenomenon, but this same situation holds true with other kung fu styles as well.

...

Not to sidetrack this thread, but I think this is dead-on and I don't see it expressed so clearly and practically very often.

I'll add that while other kung fu (and for that matter, I imagine Japanese and Korean) styles experience this same thing, Wing Chun seems to get the worst of it. I suspect that can be attributed to 2 major things, both of which relate back to Bruce Lee.

1) He made Wing Chun a thing that was marketable world wide on a large scale, so it spread fast and furious and quality and experience with it varies wildly from one corner to the next.

2) He also made popular in the west the concept of mixing or collecting techniques from multiple martial arts. So, a lot of people have dabbled in it enough to form some kind of opinion and the type of people to slag of traditional styles in favor of modern styles, likely had some exposure to someone saying they knew something about it at some point.

I remember a JKD guy showing me my first wing chun back in the early 90s. "And this is bong sao". It made no sense to me (or I suspect him). When I felt my first wing chun from a good player who trained in a little warehouse space in Miami with no sign, I was shocked at how effective and brutal I perceived it to be.

And for me, the rest was history.

[edreel200]

I've never spoke with him, but have with his students. Based on my dialogue with them, I'd definitely check him out. They seem very polite and this would usually be an indication that the instructor isn't an an arrogant pr!ck.

Good luck on your search. Asking a forum honestly won't do you the justice of checking everyone out as you go. We're all brainwashed to a certain degree...

CTK

thanks man:)

i understand what you mean, but it would not hurt to gain some insight on the art and the way people teach it.
i have met michael louison and he seems very humble and knows his stuff, and his prices are quite reasonable.

so i am gona have a look at few more schools then make up my mind.

thanks to everyone that helped me on this thread.

regards

[Hardwork108]

Not to sidetrack this thread, but I think this is dead-on and I don't see it expressed so clearly and practically very often.

I'll add that while other kung fu (and for that matter, I imagine Japanese and Korean) styles experience this same thing, Wing Chun seems to get the worst of it. I suspect that can be attributed to 2 major things, both of which relate back to Bruce Lee.

1) He made Wing Chun a thing that was marketable world wide on a large scale, so it spread fast and furious and quality and experience with it varies wildly from one corner to the next.

2) He also made popular in the west the concept of mixing or collecting techniques from multiple martial arts. So, a lot of people have dabbled in it enough to form some kind of opinion and the type of people to slag of traditional styles in favor of modern styles, likely had some exposure to someone saying they knew something about it at some point.

Very true. Agreed on all counts.



I remember a JKD guy showing me my first wing chun back in the early 90s. "And this is bong sao". It made no sense to me (or I suspect him). When I felt my first wing chun from a good player who trained in a little warehouse space in Miami with no sign, I was shocked at how effective and brutal I perceived it to be.

And for me, the rest was history.

If I had a dime for every time I advised the "Wing Chun" (or "Kung fu") critiques in this forum, to find a genuine sifu, I would be rich man, lol.