Isshin-ryu Karate questions

[Daedalus]

I used to train in Isshin-ryu karate about 6 years ago, but got away from the style and switched to Chinese kempo. However, recently, I have been reviewing the Isshin-ryu kata in order to prepare for promotion within the style.

I hold a 2nd Degree Black Belt in Isshin-ryu and am preparing for 3rd Degree. My problem lies in the fact that the instructor that I trained under had changed the traditional kata in order to make them more competitive at tournaments. Therefore, I have no idea as to how the forms are supposed to be performed.

Could someone offer some advice or a site where they might have the forms in video format?

:(

[Piccolo Junior]

There is no such thing as "Chinese Kempo", Kempo is a generic Japanese term for martial arts, the equivalent of Chuan Fa in Chinese.

[shog]

Sure there is such a thing...people have derivative styles all over the place...you would think that there is no such thing as Internal Karate or Chinese Goju Ryu or American Kung Fu...but there is.

Nowadays, all kinds of things are flourishing out there. That is what makes things so intriguing when you go hunting for a decent school or similar instructor in what you may have taken in the past, or if someone were looking to diversify their skills.

[Budokan]

Go to barehands.com and check out the karate/isshinryu listings. It's pretty extensive and may have what you're looking for.

K. Mark Hoover

[Daedalus]

To some extent, you are right. The term "kempo" is every bit as generic as "karate" or "kung fu". When I say "Chinese kempo" I am speaking broadly referring to the shaolin fighting methods that came from China and were adapted and practiced in the Ryu Kyu Islands before the Japanese screwed it up and turned it into karate.

Shog is right. There is a formalized style called "Chinese Kempo" also. I wasn't aware of American kung fu though. That's interesting. Do you have anymore info on that?

[Piccolo Junior]

The Japanese didn't mess it up and make it Karate, the term Karate was used by the Okinawans to describe Chinese derived methods for many years before it came to Japan (it means "Chinese Hand"). Don't disrespect Japanese Karate either, there are lot of tough Shotokan guys.

[omegapoint]

Go back to the "Other Related Arts" menu and scroll down to "Isshin Ryu Seisan vs. Other Seisan" and I think you'll find what you're looking for. Peep the thread, too, it's pretty good. Too bad there are not enough true Karateka on KFO to get a practical, worthwhile thread like that going! Good luck on your rank test...

[rogue]

Not my favorite interpreter of the kata, but Angi Uezu has a series out on Panther and they seemed pretty complete and standard. Warning, there's this thing about him being "so powerful that he vibrates" that sometimes may have you giggling.

If they're running a special you can pick the whole set up for a little over $100.00.

You can also check http://www.isshinryu.com. I have the tape on Seisan and it's pretty good, more bunkai oriented.

BONUS!!! http://www.isshinryu.com/kata.htm go here and just drill down, he includes pictures of the kata!


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

[This message was edited by rogue on 08-10-01 at 08:19 PM.]

[rogue]

Hey Omega, start a topic. This group is better than nothing. :D


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

[Daedalus]

PJ,
In the time before Okinawa became a part of Japan, the native fighting art was "te"/"ti", however you want to say it. However, the term that most Okinawans used to describe the Chinese fighting arts was "kempo" (fist law). In several old manuscripts written by now deceased Okinawan masters, they make reference to the fact that the majority of "te" was derived from "kempo".

Even today, many old Okinawan masters refer to their art as "kempo", not karate.

At that time in Okinawan history there was a great cultural division. There were those Okinawans who wanted to embrace Japan and all that was Japanese. Likewise there were others who wanted to remain closer to the Chinese influences. Japan represented the future while China was seen as the past. Thus when Okinawa became part of Japan, the term "karate" was adopted; not because of the meaning, but because of the word itself (it is a Japanese word). Those wanting to remain culturally distinct from the Japanese continued to use the word "kempo" (an Okinawan term).

No disrespect meant in regard to karate. It is what it is; just as kempo and kung fu are. No better and no worse.
*salute*

:cool:

[Daedalus]

Thanks for the info guys. I have found your inputs very helpful.
*salute*

[rogue]

D, how'd he change the kata? Forms & kata competitions are the bain of the traditional martial arts. Something growing more popular in the modern TKD world is doing kata/hyungs to music, now there's something that says "serious" martial art.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

[Daedalus]

rogue,

Many of the forms have extra movements added to them; for instance: Seisan had some extra kicks which are to be performed to head level added to the punching sequences.

Another example is Kusanku (Kanku) which he changed also by adding many high kicks and even some rolls to the form.

The other forms, I'm not sure how extensive the changes are yet, but I'm learning.

[rogue]

Are these changes in the practicle orientation of Isshin-ryu or just to be fancy, in other words are they combat effective?

I've seen high kicks in Isshin-ryu but they weren't emphasized and would be under the heading of additional techniques for competition.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

[Daedalus]

I'm unsure. They appear to be for the purpose of making the form more spectacular for the purpose of forms competition.

My former instructor was very tournament minded.

[wu_de36]

http://www.ironcrane.com/html/isshinkta.html

also has videos of katas. I'm not an isshin-ryu practitioner, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of them.