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View Full Version : Supreme NHB, to end the b*llsh*t once and for all (this is dumb)



IronFist
08-30-2001, 09:23 PM
As someone (sorry I forgot who) said in another post, he wouldn't have the heart to kick some guy's knee in in a NHB fight. Why? Because morally, to most people, it's not worth crippling someone just to win a game.

However, because of this fact, people always argue "this style is the best because it works in NHB." ::coughBJJcough::

So I propose a solution to this. Hold a TRUE NHB fight. What makes it "true?" The fact that EVERYTHING is allowed, including the following, for example:

Fish hooking
Breaking Knees
Small Joint Manipulations
Iron Vest
Iron Palm
Kicking someone who is on all fours
Eye gouging

But would anyone want to fight in such a tournyment where they could be crippled for life? Yes. Why you ask? Because the winner recieves a prize of tax free $100,000,000. People are crazy enough to jeopardize their life for that much money.

If the BJJ guys still win, then we'll just have to put up with their gloating :)

The only problem with this, is that the people who would most likely win (like some obscure bagua master in China) wouldn't enter. Oh well.

But still, I would watch such a contest, wouldn't you?

Sorry abou this post, I'm just kinda bored right now :) :) :)

Iron

Nexus
08-30-2001, 09:26 PM
So what you are saying is two guys fight, one dies indefinately and the prize money is 100,000,000? What if we put up all that money and in the first 10 seconds, one guy gets knocked out?

Does he still have to pick up the limp and unconscious body of his opponent and snap its relaxed and unmoving neck just to claim the cash, or do we pay him regardless of the final kill blow?

It sounds as if you are just as confused by the situation as everyone else IronFist and before you respond to me arguing my post, you should truly read what you said and give it some though. It's sad to hear someone with as much potential as you spending it on ideas that lead nowhere like that.

PS. Good luck with your QI Gong, practice practice practice :)

- Nexus

<font size="1">"Time, space, the whole universe - just an illusion! Often said, philosophically verifiable, even scientifically explainable. It's the <font color="blue">'just'</font> which makes the honest mind go crazy and the <font color="blue">ego</font> go berserk." - Hans Taeger</font>

Badger
08-30-2001, 09:32 PM
You forgot some:

biting
spitting
tickling
pinching
****ing
peeing
pooping


Badger


+

RedDragon
08-30-2001, 09:34 PM
i wanna see a UFC fight with all those things allowed!!

apoweyn
08-30-2001, 09:35 PM
I don't. [whimper]

Kungar
08-30-2001, 09:38 PM
With those rules, WT is the best style, hands down. And, with those rules, Emin Boztepe would be the best fighter, no contest.

JWTAYLOR
08-30-2001, 09:42 PM
Why, is he really good at peeing or something?
JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

Braden
08-30-2001, 09:43 PM
I think Pinhead would rock at those fights. Or maybe Edward Scissor Hands. Don't **** with a dude who has scissors for hands.

Badger
08-30-2001, 09:44 PM
Talk about a "****ing" contest


Badger

apoweyn
08-30-2001, 09:46 PM
Again, JWT with the laugh.

Theogenes
08-30-2001, 09:46 PM
Actually, there was a challenge match about 4 months ago featuring John Marsh, a BJJ practitioner, vs a Kung Fu guy. There were no rules at all, and the BJJ guy still broke the kung fu guys arm. There you have it. Maybe Knifefighter still has the clip of the fight.

Knifefighter
08-30-2001, 10:00 PM
Just to be fair...

John was bigger, younger, and stronger than the kung-fu guy. However, I do believe if the stats were more equal the results would have been pretty much the same... it just would have taken a bit longer.ƒ

Nexus
08-30-2001, 10:02 PM
Oh come on. You saw the fight! That kungfu immediately jumped into a kick without even taking the time to evaluate the match. It was a poorly executed kick at that and Marsh threw a kick taking out the guys leg and at the same time taking him to the ground and snapping his arm. The kungfu guy was flailing around on the ground with innefective maneuvers and marsh totally dominated that fight.

In that case, I think it was proven that traditional is not always effective, especially when it is poorly executed.

- Nexus

<font size="1">"Time, space, the whole universe - just an illusion! Often said, philosophically verifiable, even scientifically explainable. It's the <font color="blue">'just'</font> which makes the honest mind go crazy and the <font color="blue">ego</font> go berserk." - Hans Taeger</font>

Braden
08-30-2001, 10:06 PM
Not that it matters, but San Soo is neither traditional nor kungfu.

NafAnal
08-30-2001, 10:13 PM
HAHAHAHA kungar, you are a funny guy...

SifuAbel
08-30-2001, 10:14 PM
Nexus beat me to it. The "kung fu" guy just plain sucked. His approach was amatuerish at best. And, that initial kick looked like the typical "feel out" move used in light contact sparring. He was outclassed in every way. When these arguements sping up, it always comes back to the "oh you can't beat our absolute best guy." I'd like to see a no-name competitor in this kind of match. Even weight and height. Even skill level. The fight would be longer, but the physical cost would be heavier to both fighters. Please, no more fights between thin guys and 'roid monsters.ÿ

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

IronFist
08-30-2001, 10:17 PM
Nexus, I wasn't trying to start anything. I was just really board, and I think there's too many contraints on a Pride or UFC style "NHB" fight for ANYONE to say that it proves a certain style is superior.

Frankly I'm surprised I've gotten 13 replies in like 30 minutes :) Hehe.

I just wondered what people would say. Obviously a fight like I described would never happen, legally. But it would approximate a street encounter where you're fighting for your life a bit better than current NHB does.

Btw, if someone knocked the other guy out, he would win. If your opponent is knocked out, you have won the fight, I would assume. No sense in killing your attacker if you can knock him out.

I guess. I dunno :)

Thanks for the qigong help!

Iron

Theogenes
08-30-2001, 10:21 PM
I agree, the kung fu guy was outclassed in every way. However, it does go to show you that a few 'dirty' techniques are not going to make someone a good fighter. I find it funny how people assume they could take out anyone if only they could use an eye gouge or groin kick. I also agree with knifefighter, I don't think the fight would have went much different even if the fighters were more matched up.

LEGEND
08-30-2001, 10:23 PM
As someone (sorry I forgot who) said in another post, he wouldn't have the heart to kick some guy's knee in in a NHB fight. Why? Because morally, to most people, it's not worth crippling someone just to win a game.
However, because of this fact, people always argue "this style is the best because it works in NHB." ::coughBJJcough::

Keith Hackney tried that in the UFC against a big sumo guy...didn't work...he tried that 3x.

So I propose a solution to this. Hold a TRUE NHB fight. What makes it "true?" The fact that EVERYTHING is allowed, including the following, for example:

Fish hooking: don't think this was allowed in the 1st ufcs.
Breaking Knees: was allowed...no one could pull it off.
Small Joint Manipulations: was allowed in the first ufcs...there were some nhb matches that had this and in roman history a grappler won most of his fight this way.
Iron Vest: whass this???
Iron Palm: was allowed and still allowed but ehhhhhhhhh...no one has pulled it off.
Kicking someone who is on all fours: was allowed in the first ufcs...currently allowed in pride...ban recently in some of the matches due to immediate KO.
Eye gouging: banned but unfortunately was used on several occasions...it works!

If the BJJ guys still win, then we'll just have to put up with their gloating

With the exception of fish hooking...eye gouging...ROYCE still won the first 5 UFCs with the old rules.

A

Jaguar Wong
08-30-2001, 10:25 PM
Hey! I wanna see the video!
Knifefighter, post the link!

Or you can email me:
bmanning@westwood.com

Jaguar Wong

SifuAbel
08-30-2001, 10:25 PM
If you haven't noticed, more and more of these NHB fights are ending up in knockouts. Are you speaking generally or just because it's a top fighter vs. a hobbyist.P

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

Theogenes
08-30-2001, 10:31 PM
True, alot of NHB fights end up in knockout now, but every one in NHB is a really good grappler too. If not for their good grappling base, they wouldn't be able to stand up and fight, IMHO.

Ford Prefect
08-30-2001, 10:40 PM
IronFist, you are a troll. Go back to the strength forum! :) :)

RedDragon
08-30-2001, 11:13 PM
ok i still dont get what you guys mean by "troll", please explain

Ralek
08-30-2001, 11:41 PM
In the early UFC's fish hooking was perfectly legal. The only rules were no Biting or Eye gouging. Everything else was legal. You were allowed to kill your opponenet. You were alowed to repeatedly smash their balls (happened in UFC#4). You were allowed to smash their teeth out (happened in first fight of UFC#1) You were allowed to repeatedly elbow them in the head while thier unconsious till the ref tore you off (UFC#2) There was no cups, mouth pieces or gloves. You were allowed to do anything besides bite and eye gouge.

And the kung fu guys all lost. Royce Gracie beat the pure strikers easily. And even beat some Olympic wrestlers and Professional shoot fighters in the process. (Ken shamrock and Dan Severn).

When kung fu guys start defeating a gold medalist olympic wrestler who out wieghs them by 80 pounds like Royce Gracie did then they will have my respect.

But for now taekwondo has a better record in NHB than kung fu.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

Ralek
08-30-2001, 11:44 PM
Oh. And the kung fu guys were larger than Royce Gracie. Throughout the history of NHB the kung fu guys have been bigger than the wrestlers. But they still lost.

The John Marsh vs Sansoo fight shows that BJJ destroys little kung fu guys also.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

SifuAbel
08-30-2001, 11:49 PM
meanwhile, ralek is still busy masterbating to his royce gracie poster. Oh royce oh royce,.....hoyce!!!!

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

Wongsifu
08-30-2001, 11:49 PM
i got nothing to contribute to this post apart from kungar why do you have to bring up your lover in every post
EMIN WOULD WIN EMIN EMIN EMIN would take his top off and show the bjj guys his muscles and they would start to try and dry hump him and emin would have the advantage to knock them out quickly but instead he starts to enjoy it so they end up having a baby.


that was the worst spent 23 seconds of my life writing that

I wongsifu shall strike fear into the hearts of trolls and mma guys who **** me off on these forums oh and in real life.

Jaguar Wong
08-30-2001, 11:49 PM
"But for now taekwondo has a better record in NHB than kung fu"

LOL! It's funny cause it's true. I remember that rough looking biker dude that dropped his opponent with a right cross, then he came crashing down with a forearm on the guy's face after he was KO'd

I really only remember two kung fu guys in early NHB events. One was that Wing Chun guy in Extreme Fighting that bragged about his ability to block and strike simultaneously, but when they put him up against Igor Zinoviev the WC guy ran in with an ugly foot ball tackle and got slammed and choked out.

I'm not ragging on Kung Fu, after all, that's my style choice and all. I'm just ragging on the level of talent that represented kung fu in MMA/NHB events. It's true that I wouldn't really want to enter an event that pit me against a very tough opponent and then didn't allow throat chops, pinching/biting, or eye gouges. But I don't think those techniques would let me win nonetheless. Because the people that enter the UFC and Pride are professional fighters. They train to fight. It doesn't matter how pure your lineage is, you can't really do much if you're a weekend warrior, or even if you only train 3-4 times a week, 2-3 hours at a time. The pros train 5-6 times all day.

What was this thread about again?

Jaguar Wong

SifuAbel
08-30-2001, 11:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm just ragging on the level of talent that represented kung fu in MMA/NHB events. [/quote]

You mean "LACK" of talent. Personally, I woundn't have chosen them for the kung fu team.
Unfortunately, the whole of the kung fu world was "judged" by the performance of less than one handfull of it's most fringe practitioners.

Ralek
08-31-2001, 12:23 AM
The kung fu guys lost so their automatically poor skill? Well i agree. All kung fu guys have poor and non-exsistant fighting abilities. There are no qualified representatives because kung fu doesn't work.

I mean, that wing tsun guy that fought in UFC was a TOP STUDENT of Emin Bostepe and was and instructor of twing tsung himself. But he was cremated by a grappler.

I have challenged Emin Bostepe to a street fight but i don't think he surfs the internet to accept my challenge. However the challenge still stands.

Who do you kung fu guys think would be good representative to fight in the "old rules" UFC?

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

Jaguar Wong
08-31-2001, 12:23 AM
Well, yeah, that's what I mean. :)

I just don't know any Kung Fu guys that really care enough about what people think to train seriously enough then actually enter an NHB event. I personally have nothing to prove, but entering a MMA event is on my list of goals. Of course I wouldn't be there representing any style, cause I've been pretty diverse (somewhat) in my training.

Jaguar Wong

old jong
08-31-2001, 12:23 AM
This tread is useless! :mad:

Ralek
08-31-2001, 12:30 AM
TKD the real street lethal !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Silumkid
08-31-2001, 12:36 AM
Well Ralek and you others flaming kungfu fighters....prepare to eat your words. You can borrow some salt if the crow is too bitter.

First of all, San Soo is a joke. Jimmy Woo invented his kungfu style in the 1950's (if I remember correctly) then told a whole bunch of people that it came from "secret once thought losts scrolls of Shaolin". Whatever. Sounds a lot like another story I read on here from time to time.

Second of all, there is a particular poster on here who is a classmate of mine. He has been in the UFC twice and won both of his qualifying matches. Do some research before you shoot off...your foot might be in the way.

That being said, why do people not understand that "style" has next to nothing to do with the outcome of a fight? I suppose it is much easier to talk about something you know little about than to investigate it.

Amitabha!

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

Jaguar Wong
08-31-2001, 12:46 AM
silumkid:
You train with Onasis? cool. I guess I forgot about him winning his matches. I was only thinking of the televised ones.

I do apologize if anything I said offended you, but they are my personal opinions, and shouldn't really shape the way anyone thinks about the arts in general. :)

Jaguar Wong

Silumkid
08-31-2001, 01:12 AM
Jaguar,

No need to apologise. I'm not easily offended, I just get kind of tired seeing blanket statements such as "Jason DeLucia lost his match in UFC, he was a kungfu fighter, therefore all kungfu fighters suck." Using that type of logic, one can "prove" anything.

For example, "All ducks have feet, I have feet, therefore I am a duck."

If style has so much to do with winning fights, then why does the "superior" BJJ style have fighters that lose just as much as all the other styles?

I also let myself get irritated at inaccurate arguments such as "Royce Gracie won the first 5 UFC's"....NO, he didn't. If memory serves me correctly, he only competed in the first three one of which (the third I think) he had to forfeit because Kimo hit him too hard. He did beat Kimo but could not continue the following fight. His other fights were so called "Superfights", one of which wqas against Ken Shamrock...again, he did not win. It was a draw. I know, some people say a draw is as good as a win...well, then Ken "won" too.

Again, Jaguar, please don't think I was/am attacking you personally. I'm just venting some frustrations at silly things. Not very Buddhist of me, I admit. :)

As to your other question, yes, I do train with the big "O"...he's da man.

Amitabha!

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

NafAnal
08-31-2001, 01:29 AM
Leave kungar alone, he's great.... Every one of his posts brings a smile to my face.... :D

Ralek
08-31-2001, 01:33 AM
Simlum kid. You forget that Royce Gracie won UFC#4.

And Royce Gracie choked out Ken Shamrock in UFC#1. In UFC#5 they had a rematch and it was a draw. Royce is outwieghed and out-strenghed compared to Shamrock. That fact that he has beaten and drawed him is quite and achievement.

Here is a list of royce's career in UFC:

UFC#1: Royce beats the current #10 ranked heavy weight boxer of the world (Art Jimmerson), Royce beats Ken Shamrock, Royce beats Gerard Gordue.

UFC#2: Royce beats some Japanse karate "hero" who has won 60 bare knuckle fights, Royce beats shaolin kung fu fighter Jason Delucia, Royce beats international judo champion Remco Pardeu, Royce beats professional boxer and pancrase champion Pat Smith

(UFC#2 you had to win 4 fights to win the thing instead of the usual 3. It was a bigger tournament. My favorite UFC)

UFC#3: Royce beats Kimo with an armock. Kimo is 80 pounds heavier and manages to hurt Royces back and Royce is limping and cannot continue the tournament. A ninja ends up winning the tournament.

UFC#4: Royce beats Goju Karate man Van Clief Some old guy who is really big and muscular but old. Royce beats kenpo guy Keith Hackney. Royce beats Olympic gold medalist wrestler Dan Severn. Severn is 80 pounds heaveir. Royce chokes him out with a triangle from the guard. the most dramatic fight in NHB history.

UFC#5: Royce fights Ken shamrock in a super fight. It ends in a draw.

If you want more detail in-depth descriptions of the fights i will give them to you.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

Ralek
08-31-2001, 01:38 AM
After this Royce quits the UFC becuase of all the stupid rules they started adding. Royce dominated the "old rules" UFC.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

MIKSANSOO
08-31-2001, 01:50 AM
i don't want to start any flame war of any kind. but in regards to the challenge match, like knifefighter said, marsh was bigger, younger, stronger and i would like to add that he was also more trained, skilled, and experienced. that fight was off-balanced. if you reverse the rolls of the two, have a pro like Tony paterra (a san soo guy)and have bjj guy who watched tapes and only had 1 month of mat time and you would have had a reverse outcome between the two styles. my point is that sean was far outmatched and john would've cream alot of kung fu guys and probably most on this forum. and no knife im not going to fight anyone. im a newlywed and have my energies directed someplace else, if you know what i mean ;) .

braden,
what makes san soo not a kung fu style. you live in ottawa. don't think there are many san soo schools out there. if you are getting your info from what you have seen on the net, that my friend is ignorance. granted san soo doesn't have fancy little names for stances and strikes, a lion dance, etc.. but who cares. jimmy taught at the cousin's club in la's chinatown for a number of years to the chinese there. i would gather that they know what kung fu is.

silumkid,
san soo is a joke! well there are many schools in the so. cal. that have many crappy instructors and schools. anyone can open a school. but i would like to disagree with you that san soo is a joke. there are many san soo practitioners and very few san soo fighters. san soo is a pure fighting art and a lot of instructors out there live in theory because they have never fought (the time in the 2nd grade doesn't count as i would say to them). expose yourself to actual san soo people, before you make judgement. for example if san soo is a joke how come some of the best fighters in the world have taken it up. ken norton former heavyweight champ, kathy long women's kickboxing champ, don't you think those two would have seen through a joke. there are many san soo people who study a lot of grappling like judo and bjj with some of the best like the muchado's and gene labell. but their base is still san soo and still practice san soo. plus there a few san soo guys who do nhb and do fairly well in it.

everyone have a safe and fun labor day weekend.

"you can take my life, but not my confidence"
Jimmy H. Woo :D

[This message was edited by MikSanSoo on 08-31-01 at 05:01 PM.]

Silumkid
08-31-2001, 01:56 AM
I didn't see the 4th one so didn't include it. Lost interest in it a long time ago, especially after Ninja Cop won. No disagreement there. I also agree that Royce is quite a fighter...however, I still contend it has little to do with style and a lot to do with the fact that he is extremely well trained.

Now, I have heard a lot of folks claim the UFC was "hand-picked" by Rickson, that the fighters weren't prepared...those are as lame an excuse as the styleone in my view. Royce has gotten some amazing wins, no doubt. But put Royce and his lifetime of training in the cage with guys who have been training for a few years, and it's easy to see who will win. My argument is and always has been that it's all in the training.

If you train to adapt and overcome, you probably will. The "style" just makes it look different.

Amitabha!

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

Silumkid
08-31-2001, 02:05 AM
MikSanSoo,

Just saw your post. Now, let me first say that I truly believe that there are some great fighters that we have never heard of, regardless of style. Call it what you want, if it's effective, it's all good. Of course, I also argue that anything is effective if you make it so. Anyhow, if Mr. Woo had come up with this style and said "This is my style" or "This was taught to me by so-and-so" I'd be fine with that, and San Soo may be a very effective art. However, the joke I refer to is the whole "secret scrolls" story. Please. It gets a little old hearing about "super secrets" and "the only combat art" and "the world's most comprehensive yadadada".

I truly don't intend to defame anyone's style because I think it's silly, but I do take issue with the marketing machines. If the art works, show us. Don't make up ridiculous stories about it to fool people. It's not righteous.

Amitabha!

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

MIKSANSOO
08-31-2001, 02:12 AM
what scrolls? i have never heard of scrolls. there are books that the chin family is holding on to and won't let anyone see them. but when jimmy had his el monte school many people have seen them. they were not a secret. san soo or tsoi li hoi fut hung kung fu is a family art. i mean chin family not the fighting families hung fa, fut ga, etc.. the books were extremly old from what i was told and writed in old chinese and were hard to read and translate into modern chinese. there is now secret scrolls or books. just no one has access to them since jimmy past.

i hate the marketing machines also. it has discredited san soo quite a bit. it's really sad. but you see that quite a bit with a lot of martial arts not just san soo

"you can take my life, but not my confidence"
Jimmy H. Woo

IronFist
08-31-2001, 02:15 AM
LEGEND said:

Iron Vest: whass this???
Iron Palm: was allowed and still allowed but ehhhhhhhhh...no one has pulled it off.

Well, as far as I know, every fighter who has applied to UFC and stated they were a practicioner of Iron Palm has been rejected.

It would seem as if the higher ups don't want an iron palm guys allowed in.

Iron Vest is just a protective chi exercise. If you are a BJJ'er who doesn't "believe" in chi, you'll just discredit it anyway.

As a final note:

You guys, chill. Well, first of all it's cool that I already have 42 replies to this and I just got back from dinner :) I wish my serious posts got that kind of response :P But seriously tho, this post was entirely a joke. While it would be interesting to see such a tournyment, it's not going to happen. Frankly, I really don't care if all the BJJ'ers want to think that NHB means their art is the end all and be all of MA's.

Anyway, thanks to all who replied.

I'll be back later to see how many more posts I have.

Iron

Knifefighter
08-31-2001, 02:36 AM
"I'd like to see a no-name competitor in this kind of match. Even weight and height. Even skill level. The fight would be longer, but the physical cost would be heavier to both fighters."

I've seen a bunch of these and been involved with a few myself. So far, the MMA or BJJ guy has always come out on top.J

SifuAbel
08-31-2001, 02:42 AM
Aren't they mostly all bjj and mma guys? O

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

Knifefighter
08-31-2001, 02:49 AM
The challenge matches I have seen or been involved in have usually been against "traditional" styles such as kung fu or karate. All the matches against other BJJ or MMA guys have been in in tourneys or sanctioned types of matches.?

SifuAbel
08-31-2001, 03:00 AM
So you are saying what, that you've seen a handfull of matches against picked opponents and NHB matches are mostly BJJ and MMa. Is that what you are saying? Because if it is you are contradicting what you said earlier. which is it?

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

jimmy23
08-31-2001, 03:05 AM
Ok, for the last time , listen

MMA is NOT ALL BJJ! The days of pure bjj dominating are long gone, finished. Today, youd better know how to stand up and fight, or else.

Secondly, vale tudo in brazil has two rules only-no biting, no eye gouging. A gMMA guy can attack the eyes as easily as a kung fu guy, so adding that attack would not give an edge to the kung fu fella. If you cant hit a guy or keep him from getting position when the fight goes down (as many of them do), your eye gouge isnt going to help you much.

And yes, style does matter. Theres a reason most of the MMA guys use mainly boxing strikes (although not very well yet), western wrestling take downs, muay thai kicks and a hybrid submisssion style. Becuase these styles have efficient , biomechanically sound techniques that work well.
Why dont you see a lot of trapping in MMA? Becasue the distance never stays at trapping range long enough . Why dont you see THD style jumping and spinning kicks? The same reason. Why do wrestlers avoid strikes so well? because they come at from angles and at heights that are very hard to hit in the second you have before they close. Its more efficient to sprawl, gives you more room for error, and will put you in a better position even if you dont pull it off.

Dam, I get tired of these threads...


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

SifuAbel
08-31-2001, 03:09 AM
Biomechanically sound? I think you were more correct that they don't punch well yet. M

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

jimmy23
08-31-2001, 03:52 AM
no one punches better on a consistent basis than a skilled boxer. Period.

What I said was the MMa guys dont box as well as pro boxers, but every one of them uses boxing type strikes.


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

blaktiger
08-31-2001, 04:01 AM
So Ralek, how many 80 year old BJJ artists are still out there teaching and rolling around on the floor with their students? I can name three "soft-ass" kung fu Gm's in their 80s who still actively train students. God knows how many in china are doing this as well.

The difference is that kung fu artists are more than just killing machines that burn out at 40 or 50 - think Gracie's gonna be able to that???

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Hey Mister Han man! I don't like your island very much. In fact, I'd like to leave your island!"

jimmy23
08-31-2001, 04:03 AM
Jack Dempsy, a pure boxer, was mugged when he was in his early 80s, in New York. Dempsey knocked out each attacker with one punch.


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

Mr. Nemo
08-31-2001, 04:03 AM
Lamest. Thread. Ever.

SifuAbel
08-31-2001, 04:15 AM
MMA guys are no where near pro boxing calibre punching.

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

jimmy23
08-31-2001, 04:19 AM
we do agree on that abel


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

Ralek
08-31-2001, 04:22 AM
African Tiger. Helio Gracie is 90 something. He still rolls and still taps out people.

All of the Gracie's have been rolling till the day they died. The one's that are still alive are still rolling. None of them have gotten burt out in BJJ history.

Rickson Gracie is in his 40's and still rolls and still destroys people in their 20's and 30's on the mat. He beat one of the top NHB fighters a year or two ago, Funaki.

I don't see any of the old BJJ black belts getting burnt out.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

jimmy23
08-31-2001, 04:33 AM
so where exactly are you training now ralek?


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

jimmy23
08-31-2001, 05:00 AM
ttt til Ralek tels us where he trains at!


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

Budokan
08-31-2001, 05:02 AM
You'll be bumping this thread to the top a long time then...

K. Mark Hoover

Ralek
08-31-2001, 05:03 AM
ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

Ralek
08-31-2001, 05:05 AM
I am training but not training martial arts. I am doing some very serious training though. My endurance has literally tripled since i fought shoalin tiger.

I have been watching Dragonball cartoons on cartoon network. Dragonball cartoons really inspire me to train.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

LEGEND
08-31-2001, 05:12 AM
I believe STYLE do matter...the reality is there are styles out there that are more equiped for modern day combat that the COMMON individual can use. Some of them are traditional...some are not. But Style do matter. There is a reason why many lose interest in a style...whether the ability to attain combat effectiveness is non existant in certain styles. All in all a punch is a punch a kick is a kick a lock is a lock but the style dictates how an individual fights. So the individual becomes the style. Or his own interpretation of it. But like I said I don't believe BJJ is the ONLY effective style out there...it's just that BJJ is prob. the most effective ground fighting style.

Ralek...Funaki was not the best NHB FIGHTER...nor was he ever...he only fought NHB 2 or 3 times...getting killed in his first NHB fight by BRAGA. Funaki is famous in PANCRASE but by the time he fought RICKSON he was a fallen warrior.

A

jimmy23
08-31-2001, 05:12 AM
How are training? WHat are you doing? Talk!


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist

Stranger
08-31-2001, 05:54 AM
The story of Dempsey was true, and what made it even more incredible is he threw the punch while sitting in the back of a cab and still knocked the punk out. How many of us will be able to throw a knockout punch while seated when we are that old? How many could do it now? Admittedly, not me.

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

Xebsball
08-31-2001, 06:36 AM
Dragon Ball Z is great, the Kame Hame Ha technique is very efective.

BTW, have you became a Super Sayajin already, Ralek?

-------------------------
Now renegades are the people with their own philosophies
They change the course of history
Everyday people like you and me
We're the renegades we're the people
With our own philosophies
We change the course of history
Everyday people like you and me

Xebsball
08-31-2001, 06:40 AM
One more thing...

DBZ in USA is censored!! You dont see all the blood and stuff. If you want the real stuff (more efective) buy the original japanese version with subtitles on VHS or DVD.

In Brazil there is very little censorship on DBZ, so I'm always one step ahead of you when it comes to DBZ fighting.

-------------------------
Now renegades are the people with their own philosophies
They change the course of history
Everyday people like you and me
We're the renegades we're the people
With our own philosophies
We change the course of history
Everyday people like you and me

jjj
08-31-2001, 07:00 AM
BTW Mindboxing has not been represented in the UFC yet either, they kept us out by adding rule 329: no chi blasting and rule 412: no rooting. Levitation is still legal, however, I understand they are currently working to make that one illegal also.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

jjj
08-31-2001, 07:04 AM
A little ufc trivia: The no donut rule was added after keith Hackney defeated Yarborough(sp). If you watch the tape closely, you will see Keith toss a coconut creme donut to the canvas (Yarborough's favorite) forcing Yarborough to drop to his knees and subsequently receive a brutal beating in which Keith breaks his hand. As you can understand it just wasn't fair so rules were definitely needed, anyhow it would be very difficult to make excuses without them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

Anarcho
08-31-2001, 07:21 AM
I don't know whether the San Soo guy who got beat was good or bad. I'm not really experienced enough to tell. However, I think it's pathetic to whine about how he wasn't a good representative for kung fu, etc, when he had more guts than pretty much anyone on this forum, from the look of it. Maybe one day the knockers on here will work up the guts to test their skills in the same way, wind up taking a beating and then have a chance to see the kung fu "community" turn their backs on you and disown you. Probably not, though. Life isn't usually that fair.

Braden
08-31-2001, 07:26 AM
San Soo wasn't invented in China. Wasn't an amalgamation, purification, redefinition, or other tradition of previous chinese techniques. Doesn't look, in training nor presentation, like any kungfu style.

But yes, a chinese guy invented it.

Given this, I would not call it a style of kungfu. Although of course generizing "kungfu" as a martial style is pretty ridiculous, as there's as much difference within kungfu styles as there is between any given kungfu style and any given non-kungfu style.

Watchman
08-31-2001, 07:50 AM
Nice to see JJJ back on the scene. :D

Ryu
08-31-2001, 08:04 AM
Ralek, some of my Japanese friends say that I remind them of Goku! :cool:

Should I be flattered?

Ryu

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimura1.gif

judo legend, Masahiko Kimura


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

Kungar
08-31-2001, 08:49 AM
Wongsifu, if you dont like my style, well you just have to read it, I wont change it. I talk about WT and Emin because they simply rock.

Xebsball
08-31-2001, 10:08 PM
http://anbr.com.br/dbz/gallery/goku1g.gif

http://anbr.com.br/dbz/gallery/goku9g.gif

http://anbr.com.br/dbz/gallery/goku6g.gif

-------------------------
Now renegades are the people with their own philosophies
They change the course of history
Everyday people like you and me
We're the renegades we're the people
With our own philosophies
We change the course of history
Everyday people like you and me

Ralek
09-01-2001, 09:59 PM
My training is not watching Dragonball cartoons. Those just motivate me to train.

My training consists of running and jump rope.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

Boulder Student
09-01-2001, 10:29 PM
These tourneys are already happening, but since they aren't on TV they must not be real.

One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

Archangel
09-02-2001, 04:55 AM
Yes styles do matter, the're not everything; hell the're probably not even the most important thing but to say that they don't matter at all is just plain denial.

Reima Kostaja
09-02-2001, 10:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

True, alot of NHB fights end up in knockout now, but every one in NHB is a really good grappler too. If not for their good grappling base, they wouldn't be able to stand up and fight, IMHO.

[/quote]

Not everyone. Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic won Funaki with minimal ground training.

Xebsball
09-02-2001, 08:04 PM
Yes, there is NHB with very few rules in Brazil, but its kinda underground.

BTW, a kung fu fighter defeated Rei Zulu (a capoeira street fighter that was defeated by Rickson) some time ago.
The KF guy hit him and then the ropes where loose (is that how you spell it?) and Zulu fell out of the ring and got knocked out.

-------------------------
Now renegades are the people with their own philosophies
They change the course of history
Everyday people like you and me
We're the renegades we're the people
With our own philosophies
We change the course of history
Everyday people like you and me

[This message was edited by Xebsball on 09-03-01 at 11:24 AM.]