Tsunami hit Japan and soon Taiwan

[SPJ]

8.9 earthquake hit northern Japan

tsunami warning for russia, taiwan, guam, hawai--

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

:eek:

[Violent Designs]

TIME TO USE THIS TO MY ADVANTAGE

Tomorrow in class, I will find out which Japanese girls have family in Tokyo.

So I can help "comfort" them.

My mission will not fail.

[Dale Dugas]

This is not funny for those of us who lived in Iwate Prefecture and have friends, and host families that have been rocked by the largest Earth Quake on record.

My host families home was destroyed, no one hurt but losing your home is not anything to be laughing about.

Dear lord, the area in Iwate is still shaking with aftershocks.

I have been facebooking with friends who live over there.

[Violent Designs]

On serious note (the above was obvious BS post), this is a tragic misfortune.

I have Japanese friends here and I hope their families are OK.

[bawang]

when i heard the news i felt nothing.

[David Jamieson]

It has happened in the North which is considered less populated, but nevertheless there are still millions effected.

The death toll is thankfully low.
I have been getting messages as well that indicate much destruction and continued aftershocks.

I hope the best for Japan and all others who will be effected by the incoming tsunamis and aftershocks.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Youtube has a video of the Tsunami, it is something to see that's for sure.

[David Jamieson]

sadly, the death toll is climbing rapidly.
some 300 people were found in a pool following one of the tsunamis. :(

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nature...when it kicks ass, it really kicks ass.

[hskwarrior]

Man, this Tsunami is on its way to San Francisco. it's actually kinda scary not knowing what to expect. If I don't make it....its been fun!

Hung Sing!!!!!!

Tsunami warning says it will hit San Francisco about 8 am my time.

[Lucas]

we had a warning for the southern oregon coast too....i think it ended up being a swell...but you never know. those things have a habit of sneaking up in a very short time frame....

bawang hates japanese people.

[Violent Designs]

when i heard the news i felt nothing.

no u lie

i know u celebrate with lots of festival, food, and firework

then u go rape japanese women in school for celebration

[curenado]

That was some pretty rough footage but you could tell it was bad.

[Punch.HeadButt]

They're predicting a March 18th earthquake in Cali now, too. Lucky me, I live right down the street from a fault-line that I've been told has been quiet for too long.

Santa Cruz also got hit with some swells from the tsunami, from what I've heard.

Crazy stuff...it's always humbling when the world reminds you that it can always, ALWAYS crush you like a bug on a whim.

[Syn7]

all of us sitting on the ring of fire are just waiting for it... its only a matter of time... the whole west coast has cause to create plans just in case... its not if, its when... maybe not in our lifetimes maybe tomorrow... its kind of irresponsible to not be ready for it...

[bawang]

this tsunami will remind people that we are all human, that being first world does not make us demigods.

its not honorable to gloat when your enemy is suffering, but im not gonna offer any false sympathies either. whatever happened happened, whatever will happen let it happen.

[Syn7]

well we can learn alot from the japanese here... look how well they have turned out, all considering... they build their cities with this scenario in mind... not much you can do about the water, but the buildings that were built properly did pretty well... a 7.0 leveled haiti, for example, cause haitis building codes suck... we build well here too... i have friends that work in seismic engeneering... they spend alot of time in cali and oregon showing the builders down there how to give the buildings enough flexibility to withstand alot of damage from a shake... lots of money in that these days... here, in vancity, everything goes thru seismic inspection... we even have safety cords on potlights in a starbucks.... even those lil 3 inchers... all planned for...

[Violent Designs]

8.9 is ****ing HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE, and Tokyo is still standing.

Those Japanese are preparing for alien invaders or giant mecha warfare, of course they will build sturdy. :cool:

Japan has a lot of cool sh1t (weird sh1t, but cool)

[Violent Designs]

OMG

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709850

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12717863

crazy .

[Syn7]

i like the whirlpool vid... you see that one unlucky fukcer going in... i wonder how hard it would be to get out if you tried to slingshot off the edge? i can see how going right against it could be futile, but what if you went with it and then tried to power out at the right time...

[Syn7]

Gov. Jerry Brown issued state of emergencies in four coastal counties on friday after hearing of the earthquake.... over-react much???


on a more positive note, warren buffet lost 150 mill when that quake hit...

[Dale Dugas]

For the past few days I have been extremely upset. The town where I lived in Japan has been wiped off the face of the planet by the tsunami.

It is under sea water. At this time there it is very hard to get information on the surviviors.

I have lost many martial arts teachers, friends and coworkers who helped shape me into the person I am today.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110312004789.htm

Please keep the people of Yamada Machi and Iwate Prefecture and other placed destroyed by the tsunami in your thoughts and prayers.

[kristcaldwell]

dale,

i echo your sentiments - my brother and his family live in fukuoka (needless to say i was relieved when i found out my niece is okay). the damage is unbelievable; i look at pictures of the cities that i visited just back in january...and can't believe what i now see.
my thoughts and prayers will be with yours.

i know that a local martial arts instructor is going to host a benefit for japan...i hope to participate. i know that tiger claw has a history helping when they can - i hope they will in this case.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Wow, the reports may be over 10,000 dead...its so hard to tell right now, I'm sure that the numbers will be all over the map. With the video damage I tend to believe that number is a possibility...and now the nuclear threat!

I admire how well the Japanese are handling this crisis and hope for a massive US response, soon!!!!

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Who knows, it could be even more than that. 9,500 are missing in one town alone. It's also really erie that there are 4 whole trains missing. They probably crashed and were swept out to sea.

[SPJ]

my sis and in laws live in tokyo area.

they called me at the instance/moment of earthquake took place. but it was too late for people to evacuate from tsunami. everything happened so fast.

--

:(

[Dale Dugas]

My old stomping ground where I lived for a period of years is ravaged.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110314p2a00m0na015000c.html

80% of the town has been wiped out.

13,000 people are missing/unaccounted for.

Please keep the people of Yamada, Iwate and Japan in your thoughts and prayers.

I thank you.

[pateticorecords]

http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/152/ebfc8ef0ddcc43e98d973cf94ab3a210/l.jpg
Tom Lugo: The Man Whose Heart Sings Love

Many of you are already familiar with a very special man in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania named Tom Lugo. A man with the biggest heart in the world. Tom is the leading force behind the band Stellarscope and the owner of Patetico Recordings. He is also the man behind a number of music festivals, such as the Pop Noise Fest, in Philadelphia and Puerto Rico.

When times are tough, Tom is always the first to step up to the plate to contribute what he can in the ways that he does best.

As Japan continues to rumble, Tom has already devised a way to help collect a few funds to aid in the relief for the many victims of this tragedy. A series of compilations are underway to help aid the Japan Disaster Relief Fund. Though enough material has already been collected for a couple compilations, Tom is already considering a 3rd, and maybe even a 4th, to add to the collection.

There are three ways that you may be able to help.

1.) If you are a musician, you can submit a track for consideration for one of the later compilations. Make sure you select something good and not that piece of crap you can’t use because your singer smoked himself silly the night before and the guitar player had to resort to old worn out rusty strings because there weren’t any others left after breaking the last E and G strings anywhere near the studio. Besides, it was a crappy song anyway that really had no direction.

I’ve seen a few names of some who have already contributed a song and it promises to be a must for your collections. Some names that you will be proud to share some digital space with including a few rare tracks.

Remember, this will help to get you heard by an audience who may have never heard of you before. Also, if selected, you will be placed amongst others who have something worth hearing. Let the world hear you too are worth a listen.

You may submit your track to Tom Lugo at panophonic@yahoo.com as soon as possible.

2.) Once the compilations are released, buy yourself at least one copy of each compilation. By ‘buy a copy’, I mean actually spend a little money on a real copy, be it a hard copy issued CD or, if you prefer, a digital copy. I do not mean download a pirate copy that will give you the music but not do a thing to send aid to Japan. Remember people, that’s what this is all about. Helping our brothers and sisters in Japan. They need all that we can muster up, along with a few prayers or other loving vibes you might be able to send them.

Once these babies are ready, CDs and digital copies will be available from Amazon and through iTunes. While you are at it, don’t forget to maybe do a little early Christmas shopping or other gift purchasing while you’re there. It’s the kind of gift that gives to both your loved ones and to those greatly in need.

3.) Spread the word. Chat up these compilations and tell the rest of the world how great they are. Every little bit helps and Lord knows Japan needs every little bit that we can do for them right now and for a very long time to come.

Keep your eyes open on the Patetico Recordings website for the official release of these compiliations. Air Atlantic Underground Radio will also help to keep you up to date. Let’s help Tom spread the love.

-Jaguar

-Addendum- (March 14, 2011):

From the man himself, here is a partial list of some of the bands who have already submitted tracks.

SPC ECO, Screen Vinyl Image, Ceremony, Stellarium, Dead Leaf Echo, Sway, The Hope Slide, The Sunshine Factory, Dirty Pulp Theatre, Insect Guide, Bliss.City.East, Un.Real, Ser.Es, and many more.

The artwork, mastering and final details are in the works. It will only be a matter of weeks before the first compilations will be released as a digital download. Shortly afterwards, the CDs will be sold through Amazon.

Keep checking back for more details.

http://airatlanticunderground.com/2011/03/13/rock-back-for-the-japan-disaster-relief-fund/

[Violent Designs]

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/

[mooyingmantis]

Excellent read! Thank you!

[Violent Designs]

Excellent read! Thank you!

The media is pretty idiotic when it comes to "scientific facts."

This is a breathe of fresh air, as well as settling any worries in my heart.

[Mr Punch]

I live in Saitama, about 45 mins north west of Tokyo.

I was on a train when the quake hit. As many have said, it was like a movie. I think the human mind has to compartmentalise/objectivise things like that in order to make sense of them. It really seemed like the railcar had been picked up by the top and was being shaken from side to side. We were right at the station and the platforms, lights, overhead wires etc were all shaking at the craziest angles.

We stayed on the train, and the driver announced there'd been a big one (for those who hadn't noticed?!). We waited. The cellphone network was already down. The announcement came that it was over 7.5 and in Miyagi, and that a tsunami was highly likely. After maybe 25 mins they said they weren't going to be going again for fear of aftershocks, and we guided off the train.

They were talking about guiding us to the evac areas (every Japanese town/city/burb has them, usually in a school's grounds or a park about 5 mins walk from the station), but there were just 8 long lines of nearly silent people waiting snaking up onto the concourse waiting to get out of the ticket barriers which had stopped from an outage. Everybody was orderly, and eerily quiet.

Nobody gave us any guidance to the shelter, and people were still waiting despite it being a pedestrian footbridge/overhead concourse with big windows...

I left, hung about outside trying to get my wife, had a beer, and after a couple of wee chats (the cellphone network was off, but I could get through on a net phone service iPhone app) with my wife I started out for home. The cabs were all taken of course, the trains weren't going, there were no buses to my city, I was about 16 km out and it was getting dark and cold with a biting strong north wind.

I ran-walked about half the way, and found a bus, and eventually got home four hours later.

My wife and child were shaken of course, but safe, and Saitama had got off a lot easier than even Tokyo. Nothing compared to Sendai. We had to put some stuff back on shelves but none of the furniture had fallen and we had one breakage. We live in a ten-year reinforced concrete manshon which had just been renovated: some people we know in Tokyo in older wooden houses were in pretty bad shape, but essentially our neighbourhood had very little visible damage.

Of course our thoughts went to my colleague's family in Sendai, one of my student's family in Fukushima, our friends and their new baby in Odaiba.

We've had a lot of aftershocks that even this big dumb insensitive gaijin can feel. Over 500 according to the news. Worse yet, is that the 'Tokyo Big One' hasn't come yet, and there've been 6 different quake epicentres since last Friday I've counted: Niigata, Nakano, Miyagi/Sendai, Tokyo Bay, Iwate, Ibaragi. They're on different faults and working there way down becoming more frequent closer to Tokyo.

And then, of course, there's the reactors.

The media (every countries, including Japan's, but Japan's does seem a little more measured) is full of ****. Speculative sensationalist trash. But again, that's human nature: Ive heard the staff in my staff room listen to the same report as I was, and I was getting reassured by expressions like 'within the normal levels of radiation' and 'not dangerous to humans at this level', and they were hearing 'radiation, radiation, radiation'!

The explosion yesterday at midday-ish (Monday) had been predicted on Sunday, and still everyone was sounding freaked out. The constant pictures in the media of mushroom cloud shaped explosions didn't help! NHK are showing only stock photos of the Fukushima plant ten years ago now, with its pretty sky-blue-with-fluffy-clouds design all over it which is better than footage of the grey hulking, smoking, steaming, belching skeleton we can see now.

I'm in the 'not-so-dangerous' camp, but yes, I am aware of the possible worst case scenario. My daughter (3) woke up with earthquake nightmares this morning; my wife broke down last night after four days of constant wakefulness and evac prep. We have bags packed in the hall. So it helps for me to keep reading the science, and on twitter I'm following some very sensible independent scientific types who keep tweeting radiation levels; that way I can remain calm and even upbeat for my family.

[Mr Punch]

After Sumatra, there were strong aftershocks for a month, so we're expecting the same. Several of them so far have been over 6 on the Richter.

That isn't going to help the reactors.

With the exception of some ****s on Chinese message boards and some christian freaks in the US blaming it on Pearl Harbor karma, and Tokyo's very own Governor Ishihara (the ass) who blamed divine retribution for Japan's sloth and selfishness, the international response has been good. The US army/navy or someone put out the big fire at Daiichi Unit 4 about 3 hours ago. The radiation levels spiked then but have gone down to near enough normal again now. The levels for Fukushima and around the plant aren't available on the disaster prevention site; presumably censored. Ibaraki is a little high. Kanagawa/Yokohama peaked at a still safe level (less than a flight) two hours ago and fell again when the fire was put out and the wind direction changed. Tokyo got to marginally higher than before but nothing worse than a couple of cigarettes and a couple of bananas!

Misc oddities:

On the way home on Fri everything was closing early except the conbinis and... car showrooms! They still all had staff and customers in them, with the doors closed, presumably working hard for sales!

Bikes and running shoes sold out in many parts of Tokyo on Fri evening as people rushed to get home with the trains out.

Panic buying only started yesterday in earnest. Now there are no toilet rolls, rice, batteries, torches, packet foods, instant noodles etc, canned foods, bottles of water, bread products anywhere. The strangest thing you can see is people walking out of shops with armfuls of twenty or so bentos. They'd be pretty **** by the next day even if you put them in the fridge!

We ordered a big torch over Amazon, which was then cancelled by the Japanese govt to be sent to Sendai.

I just had the graduation ceremony at my junior high: everybody was very (absurdly?) calm and happy, with the exception of the mayor who was nearly hysterical in his speech. It was hilarious and quite surreal!

We've got rolling brownouts, first today (a day after scheduled) of three-four hours, excepting central Tokyo which presumably they're trying to keep going for economy's sake. This has caused a huge backlash on the net against pa*****o parlours, conbinis, neon and sex joints for working all night and using ridiculous amounts of power. Quite right too.

With the current state of reactors Japan will lose 20-30% of its power output for up to two months. The brownouts will continue till the end of April.

Apart from a few childish ****s like Bawang, the Chinese response has been lovely, with many people remarking how the Japanese helped in the Szechuan quake. Ditto the US response vs a few Tea-Partyish fundamentalist blow-hards.

Volunteers are of course not wanted near the site.

The 10000 people who were thought to have been swept away from one town were found to have evacuated.

Gotta go: got an outage on the way. Anyone want any direct links to any aspect of what I've been on about, I'll bung some up later.

[Mr Punch]

Generally that article is about right.

The radiation level even with a full meltdown should be little worse than Three Mile Island. If there are internal pressurised explosions that then rupture the internal casing at force we're ****ed though.

[bawang]

Apart from a few childish ****s like Bawang
japanese army machine gunned my village. all their wealth and depravity was jump started by their war. tell me how the fuk am i supposed to feel anything for them.

[Violent Designs]

japanese army machine gunned my village. all their wealth and depravity was jump started by their war. tell me how the fuk am i supposed to feel anything for them.

I'm in the same position as you but what can we do about it? It's already happened.

I can never forget the atrocities that were committed and I'll never forgive the people involved, but it doesn't make me feel good when I see children and women dying.

If you hate something, hate the Japanese government for not teaching in their schools what they did to our people during the war.

[bawang]

I'm in the same position as you but what can we do about it? It's already happened.


what you can do? what you can do about it is not be hypocrites.

you guys train chinese martial arts and feel sympathy and pray for mortal enemies of china. you guys play with spears and swords and guns all day and are horrified of death. you guys pay more attention to a common japanese natural disaster that happense once every year than libyian revolution. suck my dik.

what you can do is dont act like a postmodern liberal dumfuk with the memory span of a gold fish. american patriotism and vengeance is so half assed you guys blood frenzy to kill muslims ran out of gas in the middle of the iraq war under 3 years.


I can never forget the atrocities that were committed and I'll never forgive the people involved, but it doesn't make me feel good when I see children and women dying.

im not jerking off to their deaths. im not dancing and singing. im just not fawning all over them out of principle.
americans sympathsize with japanese because they are seen as submissive and safe. the good foreigner.


If you hate something, hate the Japanese government for not teaching in their schools what they did to our people during the war.
democracy reflects the mind and will of the people.

[Violent Designs]

Whoa, chill the **** out.

All I'm saying is that natural disasters suck, I have friends in Japan also.

Do I know the history? Yes, my family came from Manchuria.....

I'm not stupid, I specifically study East Asian History....

I don't have any "special love" for Japan.

Get your head out of your ass and don't point fingers at me.

I know very well all the little problems and every historical detail of Sino-Japanese relationship.

So shut the **** up. No point talking about it here. I'm about as pro-China as they come. Don't point fingers at me.

[bawang]

i aint talking about u bro im talking to western people in general. i wanted to give my reason.

im angry because on toronto radio 2 weeks ago i heard jockeys mocking the middlea east revolutions and making fun of libyians dying. and this week being compeltely serious about the japanese earthquake.

at my college, all everyone talked about is the tsunami. no one said a word about the middle east a week before.

i didnt hear nothing him this forum about gadaffi bombing his own cities. there is a reason why people are all excited about japan and i hate that reason.

[pateticorecords]

i aint talking about u bro im talking to western people in general. i wanted to give my reason.

im angry because on toronto radio 2 weeks ago i heard jockeys mocking the middlea east revolutions and making fun of libyians dying. and this week being compeltely serious about the japanese earthquake.

at my college, all everyone talked about is the tsunami. no one said a word about the middle east a week before.

i didnt hear nothing him this forum about gadaffi bombing his own cities. there is a reason why people are all excited about japan and i hate that reason.

I totally understand you sentiments as they are justified based on your past history however, you also have to learn to forgive as it is what is best for your inner self.
Trust me, most Americans will never forget Peral Harbor and most Japenese will never forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

Another reason why there is more attention paid to the Tsunami is because it IS an act of nature not people against people, not people trying to overthrow their goverments, etc. there is a BIG difference. Let's not forget that the increasing severity of natural disasters over the past 20 years, it has not been just Western Friendly countries that have been affected and the PEOPLE not the GOVERMENT has poured their hearts into helping out.

Earthquakes in the past 20 years:

- July 16, 1990: Manila, Philippines' capital and many provinces of Luzon were shook by a 7.7-magnitude earthquake, killing 1,597 people.

- Oct. 20, 1991: An earthquake of 6.1 magnitude struck Uttar Pradesh, north of India, killing 2,000 people.

- March 22, 1992: An earthquake of 6.3 magnitude left one million victims and 50,000 homeless in east Turkey.

- Dec. 13, 1992: An earthquake of 7.5 magnitude devastated Flores Island in Indonesia, which killed 2,500 people.

- Sept. 30, 1993: An earthquake measuring 6.4 magnitude shook Maharastra state in India, killing 7,601 people and injured 15,846 more.

- Jan. 17, 1995: An earthquake of 7.2 magnitude killed 6,400 people in Kobe, west of Japan.

- May 28, 1995: North of Sajalin Island in western Russia, was jolted by a 7.5-magnitude earthquake killing 1,989 people.

- May 10, 1997: Jorasan province in the east of Iran was devastated by a 7.1-magnitude earthquake, killing 1,560 people.

- Feb. 4, 1998: Rustaq district in the north of Afghanistan was stricken by an a 6.1-magnitude earthquake. It killed at least 4, 400 people. Later another earthquake of 6-magnitude rocked the same area killing 250 more people.

- May 30, 1998: Tajar province, northeast of Afghanistan was hit by a 7.1-magnitude earthquake, which killed 5,000 people.

- July 18, 1998: A tsunami with waves as high as 10 meters killed 3,000 people in the north coast of Papua-Nueva Guinea.

- Jan. 25, 1999: The coffee region of Quindio in Colombia was shaken by a 6.2-magnitude earthquake killing 1,100 people.

- Aug. 17, 1999: The northwest of Turkey, including Istanbul, was jolted by an earthquake of 7.4 magnitude, which killed 17,000 people and injured 30,000 more.

- Jan. 26, 2001: At least 15,500 people died in an earthquake of 6.9 magnitude in the northwestern state of Gujarat in India.

- May 21, 2003: Some 2,273 people died, 10,243 more were injured and more than 1,000 went missing in Argelia in an earthquake of 5.8 magnitude.

- Dec. 26, 2003: An earthquake of 6.3 magnitude killed 26,271 people in Bam city, southeast of Iran. The earthquake also devastated 70 percent of the city, leaving two thirds of its population of 200,000 homeless.

- Dec. 26, 2004: The Indonesia island of Sumatra was devastated by an earthquake measuring 8.9 magnitude, with it epicenter in Aceh. A tsunami killed more than 280,000 people in 12 Asian and African countries.

The most affected countries were Indonesia with 121,219 deaths, Sri Lanka with at least 39,000, India with some 11,000 and Thailand with 5,313 deaths, including 2,171 foreigners.

- March 28, 2005: The west of Sumatra was shaken by a 8.7- magnitude quake killing 1,300 people.

- Oct. 8, 2005: Kashmir, a city on the Pakistan-India border, was shaken by a 7.6-magnitude earthquake, which killed 86,000 people and injured 40,000 more. In the India side, 1,000 people died.

- May 27, 2006: Java Island in Indonesia was stricken by an earthquake measuring 6.2 magnitude, which killed 6,234 people, injured 20,000 and left 340,000 displaced people.

- Aug. 15, 2007: An earthquake measuring 8 magnitude shook Peru, killing 513 people and injuring 1,090 more.

- May 12, 2008: Wenchuan county in southwest China was the epicenter of a 7.8 magnitude earthquake, which killed more than 90, 000 people.

- April 6, 2009: An earthquake of 6.2 magnitude shook central Italy, killing 299 people.

- Sept. 30, 2009: A total of 3,000 people died and 450,000 were left homeless in Sumatra island in Indonesia, after a 7.6- magnitude quake and aftershocks up to 6.8 magnitude.

- Nov. 7, 2009: An earthquake of 7.9 magnitude in Port Vila coasts in Vanuatu killed 452 people and injured 786 more.

- Jan. 12, 2010: Haiti was shaken by a 7.3-magnitude earthquake, the worst in its history. Some 300,000 people were killed and more than one million was left homeless.

[pateticorecords]

6100 B.C. – Norway

Storegga Slides, landslides that occurred under the water near the edge of Norway’s continental shelf. An area roughly the size of Iceland shifted causing a megatsunami in the North Atlantic Ocean.

1650 B.C. – Santorini

A Greek volcanic island eruption caused a tsunami, estimated to be between 100 m and 150 m high and devastated the island of Crete 75 km away. Santorini is thought, by some, to be the cause of the Great Flood recorded in Jewish, Christian and Islamic historical texts.

1700– North America and Japan

A massive tsunami caused by an earthquake along a 1,000-mile fault hit the coastal areas of northern California, Oregon, Washington and British Columbia, on January 26, 1700. The tsunami also caused flooding and damage in Japan. Geologist Brian Atwater of the U.S. Geological Survey has made many discoveries exposing the history of the land and the coastal peoples of the Northwest. Layers of beach sand enabled him to pinpoint the exact date of the 1700 tsunami. Experts say another tsunami may strike the region in the next century.

1775 – Lisbon, Portugal

The Sunday earthquake that devastated Lisbon sent many people fleeing from churches to the coastlines to avoid falling debris. The tsunami that followed killed tens of thousands of people. Overall, at least one-third of Lisbon’s pre-earthquake population of 275,000 was killed.

1883 – Krakatoa



Krakatoa Images

An island volcano in Indonesia, Krakatoa exploded so dramatically in 1883 that it forced much of the seabed below to collapse. The picture above shows the parts of the island that fell into the sea, creating a series of tsunamis (some reaching over 40 meters in height). This tsunami event was experienced in multiple regions throughout the world. Evidence of the tsunami has been found in the Indian and Pacific Oceans, the American West Coast, South America, and even in the English Channel. Areas in Java and Sumatra were so devastated that they were never inhabited again, and became nature reserves.

1929 – Newfoundland



Newfoundland Tsunami

An earthquake that measured 7.2 on the Richter scale occurred beneath the ocean on the Grand Banks, underwater plateaus southeast of Newfoundland. The tsunami reached heights of over 7 meters and hit the southern coast of Newfoundland, where 28 people were killed as a result.

1946 – Aleutian Islands and Pacific Ocean



Aleutian Islands Tsunami
On April 1, 1946 an earthquake triggered a tsunami near the Aleutian Islands of Alaska. The magnitude of this earthquake was 7.8. The height of the tsunami is not known but in the Aleutian Islands it had killed 165 people and caused over $26 million in damage. A Pacific-wide tsunami was also created as a result of this earthquake. The tsunami travelled through the Pacific Ocean and struck Hawaii and the French Marquesas Islands. In the Marquesas Islands, the local people knew the dangers of a tsunami and some of the warning signs. Survivors of the 1946 tsunami or "taitoko" as it is called on the islands, recall being warned by their elders to flee for higher ground. Waters ran up into low-lying areas of this small group of islands during this tsunami at a depth of 20 meters in the low-lying regions. This is an important event in the history of tsunamis as it lead to the creation of the Pacific Warning System. This system created a method of warning areas that could be affected by an impending tsunami before it actually hit. The picture below shows the wave as it hit the Hawaiian city of Hilo; note the man depicted in the photo below.



Aleutian Islands Tsunami

1960 – Chile



Chilean Tsunami

The largest recorded earthquake of the 20th century occurred on May 22, 1960 off the coast of south-central Chile. It was measured at a magnitude of 9.5 and generated a Pacific-wide tsunami similar to the tsunami of 1946. The death toll in Chile was estimated at 2,300 people. In Hilo, Hawaii the destructive waves took the lives of 61 people. The waves also reached Japan, damaging coastlines and the fishing industry.

1964 – Good Friday Tsunami

An earthquake that measured 9.2 generated tsunamis that struck Alaska, British Columbia, California, and Pacific Northwest towns. Waves reached a height of nearly 6 meters and struck as far away as Crescent City, California.

1979 – Tumaco, Colombia

A 7.9 magnitude earthquake occurred off the Pacific coast of Colombia and Ecuador on December 12, 1979. This tsunami killed an estimated 400 people and left 798 wounded.

1999– Izmit Bay, Turkey


Izmit Bay
It is a common misconception that tsunamis only occur in oceanic areas. The 1999 tsunami that struck parts of western Turkey originated in the Sea of Marmara, part of the Turkish Straits. The earthquake event known as Kocaeli was located on the Northern Anatolian Fault, sending water from the sea towards Turkey. Areas sustaining the largest damage were Golcuk, where water run up reached a height of 4 meters. The cities of Degirmendere and Karamursel also experienced heavy damage due to flooding.

Factors that could have prevented the widespread damage are still being researched. Many things have been learned as a result of this tsunami and the further implementation of warning systems as well as changing the construction of buildings and roads will help to prevent future damages.

2004 – Indian Ocean



Tsunami Warning System

Triggered by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake, this historic tsunami sent waves throughout the Indian Ocean, and even into the Pacific Ocean. More information on this event can be found throughout the website. Unlike the Pacific Ocean warning system, this region had no formal means of warning the public of an incoming tsunami. Final death tolls are up to 300,000 deaths, with 5 million more
people affected by the tsunami

[pateticorecords]

Weather-related disasters have quadrupled over the last two decades, a leading British charity said in a report published on Sunday.

From an average of 120 disasters a year in the early 1980s, there are now as many as 500, with Oxfam attributing the rise to unpredictable weather conditions cause by global warming.

"This year we have seen floods in South Asia, across the breadth of Africa and Mexico that have affected more than 250 million people," said Oxfam's director Barbara Stocking.

"This is no freak year. It follows a pattern of more frequent, more erratic, more unpredictable and more extreme weather events that are affecting more people.

The number of people affected by disasters has risen by 68 percent, from an average of 174 million a year between 1985 to 1994 to 254 million a year between 1995 to 2004.

"Action is needed now to prepare for more disasters otherwise humanitarian assistance will be overwhelmed and recent advances in human development will go into reverse," Stocking said.

Oxfam wants the UN conference on Climate Change in Bali in December to agree a mandate to negotiate a global deal to provide assistance to developing countries to cope with the impacts of climate change and reduce green house gas emissions.

(Reporting by John Sinnott, Editing by Elizabeth Piper)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/11/25/us-britain-climate-oxfam-idUSL2518480220071125

[pateticorecords]

Natural disasters killed almost 300,000 people and harmed nearly 208 million others in 2010, a report by a UN agency has found. It was the deadliest year in at least two decades, and the report warns of worse to come.

The Center for Research on the Epidemiology of Disasters (CRED) counted 373 natural disasters in 2010. They claimed the lives of 296,800 people and left many millions more homeless or injured.

The earthquake in Haiti in January and the Russian heat wave in the summer caused most of the fatalities, according to the report published on Monday.

The UN's Assistant Secretary-General for Disaster Risk Reduction, Margareta Wahlström, said these figures were likely to get worse in coming years.

"These figures are bad, but could be seen as benign in years to come," she said. "Unless we act now, we will see more and more disasters due to unplanned urbanization and environment degradation."

Weather-related disasters are expected to rise due to factors such as climate change, she added.

According to the World Meteorological Organization, La Nina, a climate pattern that is thought to be linked to floods and landslides in Colombia in 2010 and the more recent floods in Australia, is likely to continue at least until the first quarter of 2011.

Bildunterschrift: The heat wave in Russia caused numerous fires and about 56,000 people diedReducing risk

Wahlström said disaster risk-reduction should no longer be consider "optional."

A view echoed by Debarati Guha-Sapir, CRED's director and a professor at the University of Louvain in Brussels.

"We need to act now and show results soon. It is important that we clearly understand the direct causes of deaths and destruction of livelihoods from natural disasters, so we can act on them effectively."

The Americas headed the list of the world's worst affected continents for the first time, as Haiti's earthquake caused 75 percent of the deaths with about 222,500 fatalities.

Europe was next with Russia's heat wave claiming some 56,000 deaths in 2010. Other extreme climate events in Europe included storm Xynthia in February, heavy floods in France in June and the extreme weather conditions all over Europe in December.

Asia was hit by fewer disasters but was the most-affected region, accounting for 89 percent of all people affected by disasters in 2010. Five out of the top ten disasters happened in China, Pakistan and Indonesia.

Altogether, the disasters and disaster relief cost nearly $110 billion (81 billion euros).

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14784937,00.html

[Mr Punch]

this tsunami will remind people that we are all human, that being first world does not make us demigods.Couldn't agree more.


its not honorable to gloat when your enemy is sufferingStarting to lose it with the word enemy. You really think some Mickey-Mouse cutesy Louis Vitton obsessed shopaholic nation of kids is your enemy? And I mean up to the age of 50-odd and beyond, because although that's a racist generalisation, in many ways it's also very apt.


but im not gonna offer any false sympathies either.Fair enough.


japanese army machine gunned my village. all their wealth and depravity was jump started by their war. tell me how the fuk am i supposed to feel anything for them.Seventy ****ing years ago!. The old ****s that did it got away with it (apart from the few that were done for war crimes). The very few that are still alive are ****ing into bags though I'd still have them prosecuted if I could. And I would have the zaibatsu pay compensation until the brink of bankruptcy too, even after the enormous compensation Japan already paid to China.

But guess what? It ain't gonna happen. And carrying hatred from generation to generation just perpetuates more from the other side. Young Japanese people in general have no prejudice against the Chinese... until they hear of the hate from China, and then they start to wonder. Education: great! Hatred: silly pointless bollocks.


I'm in the same position as you but what can we do about it? It's already happened.

I can never forget the atrocities that were committed and I'll never forgive the people involved, but it doesn't make me feel good when I see children and women dying.

If you hate something, hate the Japanese government for not teaching in their schools what they did to our people during the war.Exactly. My grandmother lost her brother after the end of the war to the death railway. She also accepted my wife as the lovely, kind person she (my wife) is.

I checked my wife's grandfather's history before I got married: I wasn't going to marry into the family of a murdering rapist. But that's as far as I'll go towards carrying a grudge.


what you can do? what you can do about it is not be hypocrites.

you guys train chinese martial arts and feel sympathy and pray for mortal enemies of china. you guys play with spears and swords and guns all day and are horrified of death. you guys pay more attention to a common japanese natural disaster that happense once every year than libyian revolution. suck my dik.How about you suck mine? I don't do CMA, I do any MA, and I do it because it calmed me down when I was young and because I grew up in a rough area. So "playing with" [insert historical bull] doesn't wash, and I don't care who your mortal enemies are... in fact, that very expression is anachronistic, atavistic and childish in this day and age.

And "happens once a year"? It's possibly the biggest earthquake in history, followed by possibly the biggest tsunami in history, followed by possibly (all though pretty low) the biggest nuke disaster in history, followed by possibly... the whole ****ing thing all over again! Have you any idea what you're talking about.

As for Libya, one reason I don't come round this forum so much any more was to get more active in politics: as such I've been writing to various MPs and campaigning on Twitter for Libyan revolutionaries, Bahrain, Yemen, you name it. But yeah, of course I care about the men, women and children in the country where I live... just as I do about anywhere.


what you can do is dont act like a postmodern liberal dumfuk with the memory span of a gold fish. american patriotism and vengeance is so half assed you guys blood frenzy to kill muslims ran out of gas in the middle of the iraq war under 3 years.Nothing to do with me: I'm not American, I didn't support the Iraq War and I wouldn't have supported Hussein, Gaddafi, Mubarak, Netanyahu or any of those bloodthirsty pr.icks. I would however, have finished the job in the Gulf War and not pull out and let a dictator massacre the rebels who'd sworn to help us.


im not jerking off to their deaths. im not dancing and singing. im just not fawning all over them out of principle.That's fair enough. I just saw your comment and it reminded me of some of the ****ty things some of your countrymen have been saying about being glad down to the last child (and by countrymen I mean Chinese and American) when I live here with my 3-year old daughter. I don't go for BS threats but anyone'd see how half-assed I was if they made such a comment to my face.


i aint talking about u bro im talking to western people in general. i wanted to give my reason.

im angry because on toronto radio 2 weeks ago i heard jockeys mocking the middlea east revolutions and making fun of libyians dying. and this week being compeltely serious about the japanese earthquake.
Wait, so now you're angry at the Japanese tsunami victims because of a couple of Canadians?

[sanjuro_ronin]

With increased populations come increase death tolls.
This was a horrific even, and horrific natural disaster and one that we hope will not get worse because of a man-created disaster, the nuclear reactors.

I have friends and family living in Japan, friends I made while there doing Judo and Kyokushin, and I am glad they are fine.
This was a horrible thing to happen and the images are truly frightening and amazing all at once.

When nature decides to flex it's muscles, It doesn't care who gets in the way, something we lowly humans seem to forget way too much.

Let us extend our help, our love and for those that are into that, our prayers to the people of Japan.

Regardless of any past issues with ANY government, the people that suffer during a natural disater are just that, people, like you and me.

[Mr Punch]

Ah, **** this. All I'm worried about is my kid. Of course I care about the families of the thousands of people (Japanese, English, Chinese, Americans, Koreans... people there'll have been some of all of them) who just got drowned or have lost everything, and I came to terms with my mortality a while ago, and nature's culling, but what I really just care about is my daughter.

If you're not seeing these people as people you're guilty of the same dehumanisation that the Japanese imperial army used on the Chinese and had used on their own people to get them into that mindset.

And there's nothing wishy washy liberal about that: it's just a long-standing method of perpetuating inhuman acts - try going further back into your history.

I'm out of here.

[Mr Punch]

Amen to this.
With increased populations come increase death tolls.
This was a horrific even, and horrific natural disaster and one that we hope will not get worse because of a man-created disaster, the nuclear reactors.

I have friends and family living in Japan, friends I made while there doing Judo and Kyokushin, and I am glad they are fine.
This was a horrible thing to happen and the images are truly frightening and amazing all at once.

When nature decides to flex it's muscles, It doesn't care who gets in the way, something we lowly humans seem to forget way too much.

Let us extend our help, our love and for those that are into that, our prayers to the people of Japan.

Regardless of any past issues with ANY government, the people that suffer during a natural disater are just that, people, like you and me.

BTW, if you're going to give, please use ShelterBox or the Red Cross, not one of these newer Christian groups. These people need food, medicine, shelter, not bibles.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Amen to this.

BTW, if you're going to give, please use ShelterBox or the Red Cross, not one of these newer Christian groups. These people need food, medicine, shelter, not bibles.

Quite correct, beware of giving to any of the new "tsunami oriented" funds, give to those that have been in this and other places liek the red cross, doctors without borders or call the Japanese consulate and embassy and they will direct you.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94wUy38Tg8E

tsunami research in Taiwan.

please donate to red cross.

I donated to Tzu Chi, a taiwanese buddhist group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3eYH8LSzc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Jf2qJBiIs

prayers to all the people in the disaster area.

[David Jamieson]

I appreciate the sentiment of wanting to help.

But Japan is really taking care of business.
The problem is not goods and services, it's logistics.

Japan has lots of food, lots of shelter and lots of doctors.

What they need are hundreds of evac choppers and sartechs on the ground in effected areas.

It is still assessment phase and there are many people who are actually attempting to capitalize on this with funds and so on. It's ridiculous.

It's a big problem and throwing money at it is not a solution. There's lots of money.

[mickey]

Greetings,

This situation is a very sad one; not just for the Japanese people but for the world. The losses bother me a great deal. I hope things get better sooner than later.

mickey

[Jimbo]

Ah, **** this. All I'm worried about is my kid. Of course I care about the families of the thousands of people (Japanese, English, Chinese, Americans, Koreans... people there'll have been some of all of them) who just got drowned or have lost everything, and I came to terms with my mortality a while ago, and nature's culling, but what I really just care about is my daughter.

If you're not seeing these people as people you're guilty of the same dehumanisation that the Japanese imperial army used on the Chinese and had used on their own people to get them into that mindset.

And there's nothing wishy washy liberal about that: it's just a long-standing method of perpetuating inhuman acts - try going further back into your history.

I'm out of here.

Good post.
I stayed out of this discussion until now, but will say my bit here.

My heritage is Japanese. No, I wasn't born in Japan, but we still have relatives there, though luckily in Kyushu and Shikoku, relatively far from the problem areas.
The Imperial Army beasts that committed the rape, murder and atrocities in China are, for the most part, dead and gone. Japan isn't the only country that has committed atrocities in the last century, and that includes other Asian countries that I won't name as well.

Nobody says anyone has to 'feel' for the suffering of others, but nature has a tricky way of ignoring borders and nationalities. Yes, there are those in certain countries who will gloat at the fact that the misfortune has struck Japan this time, as is so ****ed predictable. What happens not if but when the next big calamity strikes China or the U.S.?

One thing I've learned in my having lived and traveled in different countries is that there's good and not-so-good people everywhere. I met some close friends in Taiwan I never would have known existed had I not gone there. If I hadn't, I could have thought, "All Chinese/Taiwanese are this way/that way." And some of them were people who originally thought "All Japanese persons are such-and-such", and knowing me changed them to see and respect me as an individual. I've also known good and bad Japanese, Germans, English, Americans, etc. I'm sure some of those who died in the quake/tsunami would have helped or assisted some of those who are now unfeeling or outright gloating over their deaths now, had their paths somehow crossed under different circumstances.

This is not some PC rant. It's a fact. Anyone is free to hate whoever they choose to. But harboring hatred will eat you up from the inside, and is always more destructive to the hater(s). I learned this from experience.

[David Jamieson]

japanese army machine gunned my village. all their wealth and depravity was jump started by their war. tell me how the fuk am i supposed to feel anything for them.

Nazi's killed two of my uncles and their Fuhrer ordered dropping enough bombs to kill off many of my family on both sides (mom and dad), who I never even knew.

Now, I have many German friends and hold no grudges based on the wars of the past. I can't even think of reasons for holding racist or nationalistic grudges.

I don't understand the propencity for holding a grudge across generations.

Curious as to why you hold anger about people you never met from a time you didn't exist in.

[Dale Dugas]

After Sumatra, there were strong aftershocks for a month, so we're expecting the same. Several of them so far have been over 6 on the Richter.

That isn't going to help the reactors.

With the exception of some ****s on Chinese message boards and some christian freaks in the US blaming it on Pearl Harbor karma, and Tokyo's very own Governor Ishihara (the ass) who blamed divine retribution for Japan's sloth and selfishness, the international response has been good. The US army/navy or someone put out the big fire at Daiichi Unit 4 about 3 hours ago. The radiation levels spiked then but have gone down to near enough normal again now. The levels for Fukushima and around the plant aren't available on the disaster prevention site; presumably censored. Ibaraki is a little high. Kanagawa/Yokohama peaked at a still safe level (less than a flight) two hours ago and fell again when the fire was put out and the wind direction changed. Tokyo got to marginally higher than before but nothing worse than a couple of cigarettes and a couple of bananas!

Misc oddities:

On the way home on Fri everything was closing early except the conbinis and... car showrooms! They still all had staff and customers in them, with the doors closed, presumably working hard for sales!

Bikes and running shoes sold out in many parts of Tokyo on Fri evening as people rushed to get home with the trains out.

Panic buying only started yesterday in earnest. Now there are no toilet rolls, rice, batteries, torches, packet foods, instant noodles etc, canned foods, bottles of water, bread products anywhere. The strangest thing you can see is people walking out of shops with armfuls of twenty or so bentos. They'd be pretty **** by the next day even if you put them in the fridge!

We ordered a big torch over Amazon, which was then cancelled by the Japanese govt to be sent to Sendai.

I just had the graduation ceremony at my junior high: everybody was very (absurdly?) calm and happy, with the exception of the mayor who was nearly hysterical in his speech. It was hilarious and quite surreal!

We've got rolling brownouts, first today (a day after scheduled) of three-four hours, excepting central Tokyo which presumably they're trying to keep going for economy's sake. This has caused a huge backlash on the net against pa*****o parlours, conbinis, neon and sex joints for working all night and using ridiculous amounts of power. Quite right too.

With the current state of reactors Japan will lose 20-30% of its power output for up to two months. The brownouts will continue till the end of April.

Apart from a few childish ****s like Bawang, the Chinese response has been lovely, with many people remarking how the Japanese helped in the Szechuan quake. Ditto the US response vs a few Tea-Partyish fundamentalist blow-hards.

Volunteers are of course not wanted near the site.

The 10000 people who were thought to have been swept away from one town were found to have evacuated.

Gotta go: got an outage on the way. Anyone want any direct links to any aspect of what I've been on about, I'll bung some up later.

Glad to hear you and yours are well.

I lived in Yamada Machi in Iwate, and it has been ruined.

Hoping they can find the many people missing.

[Lucas]

I live on the jet stream in the pacific nw...people here are freaking out kind of.....all of the potasium iodide are sold out lol

[bawang]

curious as to why you hold anger about people you never met from a time you didn't exist in.
chinese culture is static and there is less disconenction to the past. grandparents live with the family instead of nursing homes so they pass on their thoughts to the grandchildren.

[David Jamieson]

chinese culture is static and there is less disconenction to the past. grandparents live with the family instead of nursing homes so they pass on their thoughts to the grandchildren.

I don't buy that really. Too superficial.

There's plenty of multi-generation families from all cultures.

I don't have a disconnection from my past at all and can trace our family back hundreds of years! I'm of Scottish and Welsh heritage and we have plenty of reasons to have a beef about some past indignity foisted upon us.

But we don't because it's pointless and a waste of time and energy to hang onto that crap.

so, is it really just a Chinese thing? Because that is a seriously detrimental state of being for everyone involved.

[Lucas]

in reality if you look into it many upon many of europian families have the same process of living with the and holding reverence for elderly. its not just an asian thing lol. dont think the world is littered with free elder homes or something.

while many people in america do put their elders in homes, thats not all inclusive. you cant just do a blind sweep of everyone based on your own personal ignorance of other cultures lol

[David Jamieson]

in reality if you look into it many upon many of europian families have the same process of living with the and holding reverence for elderly. its not just an asian thing lol. dont think the world is littered with free elder homes or something.

while many people in america do put their elders in homes, thats not all inclusive. you cant just do a blind sweep of everyone based on your own personal ignorance of other cultures lol

Many people can't afford to get their elders into assisted care living or retirement homes either. It's not like they are shelving zones for used up old people. lol

Retirement homes are excellent for elderly folks because it gives them access to a familiar world instead of maintaining them in a world that is ever and ever stranger to them as it grows stranger to me as I age as well.

I have several neighbours of euro descent who have gramma and granpa, mom and dad, the kids all under one roof. Almost all of my Chinese neighbours are freaking yuppies! lol

I live in a town called Markham which is populated mostly with Chinese as well.

[bawang]

I don't buy that really. Too superficial.

There's plenty of multi-generation families from all cultures.

I don't have a disconnection from my past at all .
you just said before you dont know anything about your uncles and relatives that died against germany in ww2.

and can trace our family back hundreds of years! I'm of Scottish and Welsh heritage and we have plenty of reasons to have a beef about some past indignity foisted upon us. .
when theres photos and videos and the atrocities are stamped into your mind its hard to shrug it off.



so, is it really just a Chinese thing? Because that is a seriously detrimental state of being for everyone involved.
its not a chinese thing, its a european thing. europeans believe in forgive and forget and sometimes assume other cultures do that also.

[David Jamieson]

you just said before you dont know anything about your uncles and relatives that died against germany in ww2. no i didn't. I said that relatives were killed that I knew nothing about. I'm fairly aware of our war dead otherwise, especially service members.


when theres photos and videos and the atrocities are stamped into your mind its hard to shrug it off. I have pictures from when Coventry and Birmingham were hit in the blitz. I have a picture of a hole in the ground where our ancestral home of over 300 years was! lol Nazis inflicted plenty fo attrocities of their own across europe, and yet, Germany is one of the top 3 economies in the world, is a desirable place to live and travel to and has great people etc etc.




its not a chinese thing, its a european thing. europeans believe in forgive and forget and sometimes assume other cultures do that also.

blanket statements get you nowhere. Buddah believes in forgive and forget too. I know a lot of Chinese buddhists! lol

You're a hater bawang!

Hater's gonna hate I guess. :p

[bawang]

I have pictures from when Coventry and Birmingham were hit in the blitz. I have a picture of a hole in the ground where our ancestral home of over 300 years was! lol Nazis inflicted plenty fo attrocities of their own across europe, and yet, Germany is one of the top 3 economies in the world, is a desirable place to live and travel to and has great people etc etc.


post war germany is different from japan.

Couldn't agree more.

Starting to lose it with the word enemy. You really think some Mickey-Mouse cutesy Louis Vitton obsessed shopaholic nation of kids is your enemy?
yes. i dont hate the war criminals.i hate their children. because they want to pretend the war never happened, but enjoy the first world luxury the war brought them.

[David Jamieson]

I will sleep well tonight knowing that Bawang has neither the ways nor the means to inflict any harm on the japanese people.

:p

[bawang]

u guys brought this up. its not like i wake up in the morning and fantasize nuking japan. except on thursdays.

my point was its unfair japan gets more news coverage over brown people countries. in real life i can hear the difference in peoples tone when they talk about japan, compared to haiti disaster last year. it sickens me.

[David Jamieson]

u guys brought this up. its not like i wake up in the morning and fantasize nuking japan. except on thursdays.

my point was its unfair japan gets more news coverage over brown people countries.

japan was act of god.

brown people countries are usually act of crazy.
no offense brown countries.

once everyone has a blanket and a sandwich we'll be right back to the Libya thing. No worries.

[Violent Designs]

yes. i dont hate the war criminals.i hate their children. because they want to pretend the war never happened, but enjoy the first world luxury the war brought them.

even some friends from Japan, I had to educate them on what happened in China.

Many are either disbelieving me at first (until I show them photos or video tapes), or they never heard of it ever.

I made a girl cry once, LOL.

[SPJ]

this is an uneventful year.

there are inflations everywhere. overgrown world population, not enough food productions.

overprinting of green back, federal deficit out of control, us fed government shut down---

political protests from north africa to middle east

---

gas price, food price going up across the globe.'

the instant noodle doubled from 7 NT to 18 NT in taiwan

---

and now tsunami

it is only march--

:eek:

[David Jamieson]

Do you have your seatbelt on SPJ?
:p

It's got to get better right?

[Violent Designs]

2012

2012

2012

2012

2012

[David Jamieson]

dirty hippy.

[Violent Designs]

dirty hippy.

i will find u, trap u, rape u.

[David Jamieson]

dirty perverted freakbag hippy.

[wenshu]

Unit 731 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)

[David Jamieson]

Unit 731 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)


Top officers of Unit 731 were not prosecuted for war crimes after the war, in exchange for turning over the results of their research to the United States. They were also reportedly given responsible positions in Japan's pharmaceutical industry, medical schools and health ministry.

talk about eat bitter

[Violent Designs]

But in all honesty I don't think Japanese people (yes even the current new generation kids who don't have "war criminal histories) are "normal...."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTxZXKsJdGU

Yes, they even rape their own women.

In China, they made fathers and brothers rape their own daughters and sisters.

This is a deeper problem ingrained within the culture. Personally I think it's some sort of weirdly suppressed sexual libido. But what do I know, I've never actually been to Japan. And it can't be worse than China or Korea, right? I mean, but why the hell do we have this kind of stuff?

And you wonder why some Chinese think Japanese are like barbarians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rapeman

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/30/japanese-rape-fantasy-vid_n_518891.html

Yeah...................

[Mr Punch]

I appreciate the sentiment of wanting to help.

But Japan is really taking care of business.
The problem is not goods and services, it's logistics.

Japan has lots of food, lots of shelter and lots of doctors.

What they need are hundreds of evac choppers and sartechs on the ground in effected areas.

It is still assessment phase and there are many people who are actually attempting to capitalize on this with funds and so on. It's ridiculous.

It's a big problem and throwing money at it is not a solution. There's lots of money.Logistics, bureaucratic mess-ups are there aplenty too. But if you think they have enough money... please get a job running a major economy, and you should have the whole financial world back on its feet within days.


I live on the jet stream in the pacific nw...people here are freaking out kind of.....all of the potasium iodide are sold out lolBTW, most medicines, mouthwashes etc containing potassium iodide do not contain stable iodine and so are no use at all.


yes. i dont hate the war criminals.i hate their children. because they want to pretend the war never happened, but enjoy the first world luxury the war brought them.You know I almost agree with you there. I have a lot of resentment against my parents' generation: they ALL became too wasteful, complacent, selfish on the backs of other people, be it former colonies or their ancestors' hard work. But you're still talking about a generation heading into their seventies, bro. There are two, three, four more generations after that.

And even then, think about the logic here: how can you blame them for pretending atrocities didn't happen? They don't know about them, so they can't suddenly say, "Hey, teach us about this." because... they don't know 'this' exists. It's not like their fathers came home and said, "Look what I did in China, son," like the Chinese have had that oral history.

Now, of course I'm not naive enough to believe there isn't a lot of a collective head-in-the-sand approach to life in Japan... they could've educated themselves, but in that case they're different from the Germans. The Germans could swallow what their grandfathers had done to some extent, and could learn from it. In Japan, with that kind of shame, it would only meet up with their culture of suicide. Of course, maybe that was what should've happened after the war - mass suicide. But they were reeling from atrocities too, and waking up and smelling the coffee after years of Imperial Government indoctrination and dehumanization, so they weren't even going to get close to owning up to their responsibilities.

And guess what? I'm from Britain, which along with the US, is possibly the most adept at glossing over their atrocities and wrongdoings even as it happens in many cases.

It's part of human nature... just as it's human nature to hold grudges. But it's a part that we should try to overcome.

I repeat: the new generations of Japanese are not generally racist until they face hate from other places. Forget the old ****ers stinking the place up! It's the same everywhere these days: grumpy old men duping the younger generation of working stiffs so they can make more money off their backs! Welcome to the pensionless temporary contract generation, pal.


u guys brought this up. its not like i wake up in the morning and fantasize nuking japan. except on thursdays.Lol, that second bit was funny. But yeah, somebody else brought it up... and you didn't have to jump in with your "feeling nothing" ****. you obviously don't "feel nothing" or you wouldnt have commented.


my point was its unfair japan gets more news coverage over brown people countries. in real life i can hear the difference in peoples tone when they talk about japan, compared to haiti disaster last year. it sickens me.No argument there. I can't believe we're sitting around watching another dictator kill off a rebellion we should be supporting.


Many are either disbelieving me at first (until I show them photos or video tapes), or they never heard of it ever.

I made a girl cry once, LOL.That was a hobby of mine, I must admit. I got over it. There are better ways.


Unit 731 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)And?

[Mr Punch]

But in all honesty I don't think Japanese people (yes even the current new generation kids who don't have "war criminal histories) are "normal...."
You know what: one thing is because they have NO history or seemingly understanding of censorship.

That's what complete freedom of speech/expression gives you. Pound to a pinch of **** it'd be the same in any country if such images weren't illegal. Does that mean it's healthy? He.ll no. Some people just aren't healthy in any society.

[Jimbo]

Unit 731 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)

Absolutely terrible.

It kinda reminds me of the Nazis brought to work in the U.S. under Project Paperclip.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Let us never forget the atrocities commited by the Japanese Army, NOR the far greater and worse atrocites commited by Mao and his people against their very OWN people.
That said, no one individual or group of individuals can or should answer/be blamed for any other groups crimes and attrocities.

I sometimes think we forget that the Japanese people suffered under that imperialistic regime as well.

What is going on in Japan is a horrific situation and human beings, our brothers and sisters are suffering, not "the japanese", but PEOPLE with homes, families, loved ones, just like everyone here.

[David Jamieson]

Let us never forget the atrocities commited by the Japanese Army, NOR the far greater and worse atrocites commited by Mao and his people against their very OWN people.
That said, no one individual or group of individuals can or should answer/be blamed for any other groups crimes and attrocities.

I sometimes think we forget that the Japanese people suffered under that imperialistic regime as well.

What is going on in Japan is a horrific situation and human beings, our brothers and sisters are suffering, not "the japanese", but PEOPLE with homes, families, loved ones, just like everyone here.

Every nation has it's fair share of atrocities and tragedies to account for. If not by this generation, then the previous.

The whole idea that this earthquake is in any way shape or form connected to Japan in WW2 is absolutely bizarre and quite frankly, lower than what the human spirit is capable.

we can gripe at each other for perceived small mindedness I guess, but ultimately, we will each only do what we desire to do about it. whether that is send 10 bucks to the red cross or if that is cheering because the Japanese killed your grandad.

The former has far more virtue in my eyes and the latter is indicative of an ailing soul that needs help.

[Jimbo]

Let us never forget the atrocities commited by the Japanese Army, NOR the far greater and worse atrocites commited by Mao and his people against their very OWN people.
That said, no one individual or group of individuals can or should answer/be blamed for any other groups crimes and attrocities.

I sometimes think we forget that the Japanese people suffered under that imperialistic regime as well.

What is going on in Japan is a horrific situation and human beings, our brothers and sisters are suffering, not "the japanese", but PEOPLE with homes, families, loved ones, just like everyone here.

Absolutely. When I first heard about this happening in Japan last week, I KNEW that there would be racists crawling out for their moment in the sun. I also remember that, after the China earthquake a couple years ago, some people in the U.S. were heard to say that it was 'karmic retribution' against the Chinese. Hmm, sound familiar?

It should be pointed out that during WWII, many Japanese in Japan were against the war and the Imperial Army's aggression. There is a tendency to lump all Japanese (and now in the West, increasingly, the Chinese) into a single monolithic entity that all act and THINK the same, which is utter B.S.

Carrying hatred towards a person or people is always self-destructive to your own self. You give power to the ones you hate over yourself, a power over you they don't even know that they possess. Why not redirect that energy into doing something positive for yourself and others around you, rather than adding to the negativity in the world.

[Drake]

Not really fair to harass and blame people for something done over 70 years ago.

[SPJ]

yes, ww ii and japanese imperial past deserve another thread.

let us focus on recovery and how to better prepare for earth quake or tsunami

b/c when it comes to mother nature, no one is immune or we are all susceptible

I heard that a giant quake is coming to southern california, or baja cali, mexico

are we prepared?

yun nan China had quake, too.

many people still remember si chuan quake, with tou fu pulp school building collapse and burying school children---

:eek:

[wenshu]

I was only pointing out that the Chinese might have a valid justification for being somewhat distrustful (to put it mildly) of the Japanese and the U.S. for that matter.

I was not by any means trying to equivocate the tragedy of a natural disaster to atrocities committed during wartime.

Equivocate. . .I keep using this word.

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/182625-trial_0.gif

[Violent Designs]

Let us never forget the atrocities commited by the Japanese Army, NOR the far greater and worse atrocites commited by Mao and his people against their very OWN people.
That said, no one individual or group of individuals can or should answer/be blamed for any other groups crimes and attrocities.

I sometimes think we forget that the Japanese people suffered under that imperialistic regime as well.

What is going on in Japan is a horrific situation and human beings, our brothers and sisters are suffering, not "the japanese", but PEOPLE with homes, families, loved ones, just like everyone here.

Mao Ze Dog is like Qin Shi Huang in reuniting a shattered country back into a single, unified state (in Chinese history, solidarity = strong, federalism = weak).

Both used draconian methods but achieved hegemony.

As a result the Chinese people prospered in the end. Japan had no sentiments of that nature....

Both Qin Shi Huang and Mao Ze Dong are also absolutely the worst examples of humanity according to ancient Confucian dialectics, however. They are not examples to be "emulated" if you are a strict Confucian philosopher, however, sometimes draconian methods are necessary when the sh1t is hitting the fan.

[SPJ]

Mao started a farmers/peasants revolution and land reforms.

lands were owned by few people, and the majority of folks were farmers leasing the land to farm.

this had been going on since some 3000 years ago, since zhou feudalism.

however, Mao went too far left and started cultural revolution. destructions of 4 olds and all schools/colleges shut down, professors/engineers learn farming labor in the country side.

the darkest period ever--

---

:eek:

[GeneChing]

Seems like an odd time to propound tea (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49674) drinking...

Chinese medicine doctor recommends drinking tea to combat radiation (http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_Detail.aspx?Type=aALL&ID=201103160047)
2011/03/16 22:57:36
Taipei, March 16 (CNA) Want a good tip to fend off the threat of radiation poisoning? The answer is to drink more tea, said a Chinese medicine doctor Wednesday.

Lu Chih-hong, president of the Sheng Te Tang Chinese Medical Hospital in Taichung City, central Taiwan, suggested the public take more tea to avoid the effects of radioactive fallout that may come from Japan.

Tea, a common agricultural and medicinal product in Taiwan, contains a variety of substances, including Camaellia sinensis, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and lipopolysaccharide, that can help people combat the effects of radiation.

According to Lu, Camaellia sinensis is the main substance that helps human bodies discharge radiation contamination. C. sinensis can absorb as much as 90 percent of the radioisotopes in the human body and discharges it before it reaches the bone marrow. He added that C. sinensis also helps human bodies take up Vitamin C more effectively, creating more blood and making capillary blood vessels more resilient. This reduces the possibility of getting Jod-Basedow syndrome, a hyperthyroid disease one can acquire after taking potassium iodide to combat radiation poisoning.

Master Sheng Lun, who has dedicated many of his years to organic farming, said drinking tea is even more helpful than taking potassium iodine tablets, because tea prevents radioactive materials from being absorbed into the body and accelerates the body's metabolism of such substances.

He suggested the public consume organic tea because it contains no residue of pesticides. (By S. C. Hau and Flor Wang)

[B.Tunks]

Technically speaking, Mao and his people were not bayonetting babies or involved in mass rape and murder of civilians as a policy.

R.I.P all innocent people killed in natural or man made disasters.

[SPJ]

some local churches and buddhist temples are still helping out haiti

now, they gear up for helping Japan, even thou, with the 3rd largest economy

Japan may not need outside help.

but the heart to offer a hand in time of crisis

--

:cool:

[SPJ]

Technically speaking, Mao and his people were not bayonetting babies or involved in mass rape and murder of civilians as a policy.

R.I.P all innocent people killed in natural or man made disasters.

great leap forward or giant step backward, in order to jack up the production increase every quarter, food was sent to the city to rot in the warehouse,

while farmers eating roots and starved

---

Deng first openly pointed out the mistakes in the largest party member meeting

he was soon put down and persecuted or silenced during cultural revolution

--

Deng came out later and reversed all of Mao leftist policies

pragmatism took over

--

[SPJ]

tea or iodine to fend off radiation

:eek:

[B.Tunks]

great leap forward or giant step backward, in order to jack up the production increase every quarter, food was sent to the city to rot in the warehouse,

while farmers eating roots and starved

---

Deng first openly pointed out the mistakes in the largest party member meeting

he was soon put down and persecuted or silenced during cultural revolution

--

Deng came out later and reversed all of Mao leftist policies

pragmatism took over

--

Acknowledged. Their killing was less direct but did occur. Still, not comparable to public head chopping contests, live target bayonetting, genital mutilation, rape of children and the aged, medical experiments on live prisoners etc, etc...

[David Jamieson]

Technically speaking, Mao and his people were not bayonetting babies or involved in mass rape and murder of civilians as a policy.

R.I.P all innocent people killed in natural or man made disasters.

Hmmmn.

How did Mao manage to humanely kill 20 million + people I wonder?



* Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
* Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
* Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
* Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
* Labor Camps: 20M
* Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
* TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M


citation (http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Mao)

Hmmmn.

Anyway, I'm pretty certain there is no one, not one of us here on these boards that can say our own people and our own nations and our own history is above reproach.

It is worth remembering that the strongest sensations are probably being drawn from the enormous collective memory of which there are still remnants through racism and everything emotionally negative we don't want to invoke because ultimately, that causes freaking wars!

common sense eh?

[B.Tunks]

Hmmmn.

How did Mao manage to humanely kill 20 million + people I wonder?



I acknowledged that in response to SPJ above. Still, a little bit different to what the Japanese did in China (and the rest of Asia and the Pacific for that matter).

[bawang]

Hmmmn.

How did Mao manage to humanely kill 20 million + people I wonder?


i dislike both mao and japan.

u guys are mistaken thinking i hate japan because i think what they did was horrible, or because i watched some communist war tapes. i have a different reason and its connected to chinese martial arts.

[David Jamieson]

I acknowledged that in response to SPJ above. Still, a little bit different to what the Japanese did in China (and the rest of Asia and the Pacific for that matter).

In my opinion, it was a matter of what were we exposed to propaganda wise.

With the Japanese, following ww2 they were a mutual enemy and it was easy to dehumanize them into a congeal mass of "the japanese".

But with the Chinese, the door was closed and we didn't see pictures and read articles about how the red army exactly went about disposing of 20 million+ people over the years (low end estimate by the way, the high end is closer to 80 million).

So, we cannot correlate exactly what happened and cannot complete the process of demonizing the Chinese as one congealed lump of "Chinese".

We do have a tendency to do this. lol

Here's another congealed lump "white people".

lol, it makes zero sense to blanket statement anyone by ethnicity or nationality.
We probably should find a way to stop ourselves from doing that.

One can criticize a national policy, but a whole people?

[taai gihk yahn]

Acknowledged. Their killing was less direct but did occur. Still, not comparable to public head chopping contests, live target bayonetting, genital mutilation, rape of children and the aged, medical experiments on live prisoners etc, etc...

how are you so certain that things of this nature did not occur under Mao?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The atrocities commited under Mao regime, like those of Po and their fellow communist/atheist regimes, can not be underestimated.
The sheer numbers speak for themselves.
Communist/atheist regimes have slaughterd more people in the 20th century than all the wars leading up to the 20th century.
And they typically did it to their OWN people.

[bawang]

mao caused a famine but i never heard of massacres. he encouraged massive growth and couldnt come up with food. thats not exactly the same as sticking bamboo poles up womens vaginas.
a lot of dictators are war vets and are stuck in the war mentality. but hirohito was raised in the comfort of a palace.

[David Jamieson]

What the sins of the past have to do with the earthquake is beyond me.

Why even draw these dumb ass comparisons?

Grudges are stupid. Like a festering untended wound. The only person they harm is the person who holds them.

just sayin... :)

[bawang]

What the sins of the past have to do with the earthquake is beyond me.

the earthquake humbled a wealthy first world nation that likes to view its neighbors as dirty subhumans.

its like passive racism in america, unless ur part of it u cant notice and cant understand.

[sanjuro_ronin]

mao caused a famine but i never heard of massacres. he encouraged massive growth and couldnt come up with food. thats not exactly the same as sticking bamboo poles up womens vaginas.
a lot of dictators are war vets and are stuck in the war mentality. but hirohito was raised in the comfort of a palace.

Under Mao regime, at least 40 million died:
Some sources:
* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward, 1959-61:
+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984): 30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")
+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988): 19.5M deaths
+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal deaths and reduced births"
+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths
* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51: 3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000 to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept. 1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000 and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51): 800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen: 27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ... is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979 estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000 democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979): 39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies, Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll, excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971, report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary) "Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D. Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final number from this neighborhood. Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by two different authorities, you can slide the median up and down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny, so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless to get attached to any one of them, because the real number could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T (8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000 deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without the famine, imagine how high the true number will be once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date 1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost the same".)

[bawang]

what u posted is what i said. most of the deaths came from the famine.
i said before my reason isnt because i hold a grudge against japan about the war. china has wiped out entire races and civilizations many times over. its about wude about honor.

[sanjuro_ronin]

what u posted is what i said. most of the deaths came from the famine.
i said before my reason isn't because i hold a grudge about the war. its about honor.

You said you didn't know about any massacres, look again.
As for the deaths from the famine, those deaths were NOT just from the lack of food bro.
What Mao did was horrible and that he did it to his own people, even worse.
No way to get around it.
He made the Japanese look like Ghandi.

[lkfmdc]

Sanjuro,
I wonder why you are falling into the "they did it too" trap....

You can post statistics until the cows come home, doesn't change the very conscious war crimes, crimes against humanity and brutal things Japan did during the war period

Nor can it change the fact that Japan remains the one society which not only never repudiated these events, but DENIES THEM TO THIS DAY

[bawang]

You said you didn't know about any massacres, look again.


i dont know about any massacres. . mao never killed anyone. chinese killed themselves.
the farmers razed the buddhists to the ground and killed the artists and intellectuals. the farmer got shat on and the communists unleashed their rage.

[lkfmdc]

He made the Japanese look like Ghandi.

Have you lost your mind?

The Japanese
1. Forced women in countries they controlled into prostitution, not only doing that but making them sterile as part of the program

2. Experimented on prisoners of war

3. Tortured prisoners of war

4. Used germ and chemical warfare

5. Attempted to wipe out entire cultures

and still DO NOT ACCEPT THAT THEY DID IT, they deny it!

[bawang]

im not angry at japan for the atrocities. im angry that the debt was not rapid. thats a very important concept of wu de. im also angry that once the war reached their homeland they didnt want to play anymore. they showed they were a nation of cowards.

[SPJ]

Under Mao regime, at least 40 million died:
Some sources:
* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward, 1959-61:
+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984): 30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")
+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988): 19.5M deaths
+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal deaths and reduced births"
+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths
* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51: 3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000 to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept. 1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000 and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51): 800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen: 27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ... is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979 estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000 democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979): 39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies, Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll, excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971, report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary) "Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D. Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final number from this neighborhood. Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by two different authorities, you can slide the median up and down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny, so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless to get attached to any one of them, because the real number could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T (8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000 deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without the famine, imagine how high the true number will be once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date 1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost the same".)

quite a list, more or less accurate estimates.

I have relatives survived all these and some perished, too

:eek::(

[Violent Designs]

He made the Japanese look like Ghandi.

Killing people is quite terrible to begin with. Doing so in some sort of political ideology is bad, but it happens. The the intention was to ALWAYS - REUNITE - CHINA - regardless of the deaths and how messy along the way. It was bad, brutal, even savage. But that's what happens when a Dynasty comes to an end. You have revolution and a lot of people dying. It's been happening in China for over 2000 years now. This is nothing new for us.

You know what is new?

-Forcing brother to rape sisters
-Forcing fathers to rape daughters
-Attempt extermination of the Chinese people
-Cutting up pregnant Chinese women and killing her child in front of her
-Experimenting on Chinese children, women, and babies for their biological warfare

This BEYOND the usual "rape, pillage, kill" kind of deal. This is some sort of absolute savagery that is beneath even your typical murderer or soldier in his blood craziness. This is pure, conscious evil.

But hey what do I know. Maybe this has been happening for thousands of years too. Maybe we should consider this normal. The next country America invade, let's make it OK and force their father to rape their daughters, make baby, then cut her open and kill that baby. Sounds good.

[SPJ]

im not angry at japan for the atrocities.

my high school is across from nationalist chinese military history museum.

i saw the 2 samurai swords that competing to slaughter civilians in nan king on display.

I also saw the surrendered samurai sword from Japan's high commander in China

---

nobody forgets histories.

:eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

No one is excusing that generation of Japanese for ANYTHING, far from it.
The point is that IF you are gonna blame a people for the atrocities commited by their ancestors or relatives then you gotta be fair and do it to all, right?
Point being that if you are Chinese and have issues with Japanese people that are related to the japanese that commited attrocites during war, then by the same logic you should have the same issues with your VERY OWN people that did the same, if not worse.
And that was what Bawang ORIGINAL post implied - **** the japanese people of today that are victims of the tsunami because the Japanese army did horrifc things in CHina.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nor can it change the fact that Japan remains the one society which not only never repudiated these events, but DENIES THEM TO THIS DAY

I agree that the Japanese government should have take care of this issue a long time ago.
Not sure what that has to do with some villager in Sendai.

All the Japanese people I have met and know DO acknowledge it and are VERY shameful of it.

[bawang]

And that was what Bawang ORIGINAL post implied - **** the japanese people of today that are victims of the tsunami because the Japanese army did horrifc things in CHina.
i imply the wealth and happiness japan enjoyed is from the war, yes.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i imply the wealth and happiness japan enjoyed is from the war, yes.

Not sure what you mean...

[bawang]

looting of tons of gold and natural resources and the uninterrupted economy boom, called the "post war miracle".
i never said god caused the tsusnami to punish the japanese. i said because of wu de im not gonna feel sorry for them. especially since they can take care of themselves unlike haiti.

[sanjuro_ronin]

looting of tons of gold and natural resources and the uninterrupted economy boom, called the "post war miracle".
i never said god caused the tsusnami to punish the japanese. i said because of wu de im not gonna feel sorry for them. especially since they can take care of themselves unlike haiti.

That I can appreciate.
I don't know enough about what happened in Japan after WW2 to comment on what you said about the looting of gold and whatnot.

[Violent Designs]

VERY SERIOUS AND DETAILED TIMELINE OF CHINESE HISTORY AND ITS REALITIES

-Seven Warring States. Killing and ****.
-Qin Shi Huang came. Killed lots of people. Generally bad dude.
-Single-Unified State created.
-Qin Shi Huang killed a lot more people, building Great Wall and such.
-Qin Dynasty imploded. Revolution happen. Millions of people die.
-Han Dynasty created from revolution.
-Han Dynasty into fragments.
-Han Dynasty collapse. Revolution happens. Millions more people die.
-Three Kingdoms Period. Millions more people die.
-Jin Dynasty created.
-Jin fails. More ppl die. Same **** different day.
-Minor Dynasties rise and fall. People still dying. NP.
-Sui Dynasty. Was whatever. Oh, ppl died again.
-Tang Dynasty. Greatest ever. Chinese tried conquer the world or something. Killed a lot of barbarian outsiders. Didn't conquer the world, but it was pretty good try.
-Tang falls. Go figure. Chinese kill each other some more.
-Five Dynasties Era. Self-killing continues.
-Song Dynasty. More prosper, technology, philosophy, bla bla bla.
-Song falls. I think you know the pattern by now.
-GENGHIS KHAN GOES BERZERK AND ****ING RAPES EVERYTHING. INCLUDING CHINA.
-Yuan Dynasty. Mongols are crazy.
-Yuan fails. OMG CHINESE KILL MONGOLS INSTEAD OF EACH OTHER FOR ONCE.
-Ming Dynasty. Yay for prosperity again.
-Ming fails. ****, do these people never learn or what.
-LOL CHINA OWNED AGAIN. MANCHUS > HAN?
-Qing Dynasty. But Manchu are smarter than Mongol, they assimilate into the Hive Mind
-Qing falls. This time, blame the Europeans for being more imperialistic. And greedy. Also their religion teach them to kill. So they have very powerful philosophy. Also Chinese ppl stupid now. Don't do science make weapons, instead smoke pipe all day. ****s.
-China ****ing IMPLODES. Everybody tries to rape the corpse (****ing necrophiliacs)
-Europe rape China. Japan rape China. China decide to rape itself between Commies and Gangsters.
-Commies won due to greater Hive Mind power. Tap into Ancient China ancestor blood spirit qi power.
-China unified again. A SH1T TONNE of ppl died in process. But hey, we've been doing this for like 9000 years now, NP, we got this.

Fast Foward to 2011

-Silly ppl think Chinese killing Chinese upon the end of a Dynastic cycle is something new.

-Food for thought. PRC is new modern Dynasty.

[bawang]

That I can appreciate.
I don't know enough about what happened in Japan after WW2 to comment on what you said about the looting of gold and whatnot.

im not blindly spewing hate because i saw some photos of chinese corpses and mangled up vaginas.

im angry because of concepts in chinese martial culture. wude. japan surrendered early and escaped retribution where germany did not. japan came out of the war relatively unscathed. the tao was interrupted.
instead of preparing to accept the consequence and uphold their concept of "bushido" japan chose to completely westernize in order to escape punishment. bushido requires them to die with honor, where their new western identity demands forgiveness from their enemies.
from traditional pespective, the worst crime of imperial japan is cowardice of the entire country on a massive scale. its has nothing to do with atrocities or holding grudges.

[SPJ]

VERY SERIOUS AND DETAILED TIMELINE OF CHINESE HISTORY AND ITS REALITIES

-Seven Warring States. Killing and ****.
-Qin Shi Huang came. Killed lots of people. Generally bad dude.
-Single-Unified State created.
-Qin Shi Huang killed a lot more people, building Great Wall and such.
-Qin Dynasty imploded. Revolution happen. Millions of people die.
-Han Dynasty created from revolution.
-Han Dynasty into fragments.
-Han Dynasty collapse. Revolution happens. Millions more people die.
-Three Kingdoms Period. Millions more people die.
-Jin Dynasty created.
-Jin fails. More ppl die. Same **** different day.
-Minor Dynasties rise and fall. People still dying. NP.
-Sui Dynasty. Was whatever. Oh, ppl died again.
-Tang Dynasty. Greatest ever. Chinese tried conquer the world or something. Killed a lot of barbarian outsiders. Didn't conquer the world, but it was pretty good try.
-Tang falls. Go figure. Chinese kill each other some more.
-Five Dynasties Era. Self-killing continues.
-Song Dynasty. More prosper, technology, philosophy, bla bla bla.
-Song falls. I think you know the pattern by now.
-GENGHIS KHAN GOES BERZERK AND ****ING RAPES EVERYTHING. INCLUDING CHINA.
-Yuan Dynasty. Mongols are crazy.
-Yuan fails. OMG CHINESE KILL MONGOLS INSTEAD OF EACH OTHER FOR ONCE.
-Ming Dynasty. Yay for prosperity again.
-Ming fails. ****, do these people never learn or what.
-LOL CHINA OWNED AGAIN. MANCHUS > HAN?
-Qing Dynasty. But Manchu are smarter than Mongol, they assimilate into the Hive Mind
-Qing falls. This time, blame the Europeans for being more imperialistic. And greedy. Also their religion teach them to kill. So they have very powerful philosophy. Also Chinese ppl stupid now. Don't do science make weapons, instead smoke pipe all day. ****s.
-China ****ing IMPLODES. Everybody tries to rape the corpse (****ing necrophiliacs)
-Europe rape China. Japan rape China. China decide to rape itself between Commies and Gangsters.
-Commies won due to greater Hive Mind power. Tap into Ancient China ancestor blood spirit qi power.
-China unified again. A SH1T TONNE of ppl died in process. But hey, we've been doing this for like 9000 years now, NP, we got this.

Fast Foward to 2011

-Silly ppl think Chinese killing Chinese upon the end of a Dynastic cycle is something new.

-Food for thought. PRC is new modern Dynasty.

yes. using better technology such as sword and bows, and strick laws from shang yang. Qin defeated 6 other kingdoms.

but over ambition, or over extending, brought his demise, too.

he mobilized 2/3 of civilian population to build the great walls, used up all resources at the time, and many laborers died of hard labor--

so the dynasty ended with his son. short lived.

[David Jamieson]

im not blindly spewing hate because i saw some photos of chinese corpses and mangled up vaginas.

im angry because of concepts in chinese martial culture. wude. japan surrendered early and escaped retribution where germany did not. japan came out of the war relatively unscathed. the tao was interrupted.

Yokohoma and Tokyo were firebombed to dust, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuked, and occupation followed that.

So.."unscathed" is actually fairly ignorant. they were plenty scathed.




instead of preparing to accept the consequence and uphold their concept of "bushido" japan chose to completely westernize in order to escape punishment. bushido requires them to die with honor, where their new western identity demands forgiveness from their enemies. They were occupied and put under the Marshall plan.


as soon as the war reached their homeland they surrendered immediately when their own people started dying they didnt want to play anymore.
You need to open a history book. This is completely untrue.


the only general who critisized the nanjing looting and repeatedly ordered to stop, who broke down in tears in front of his troops, was hanged as a scapegoat claiming he orderred the massacre. this is extremely dishonorable and unforgivable. It's irrelevant today. It is the same as me complaining about how the vikings killed off my family when they took over scotland. You weren't even alive when these things happened.



it is a traditional practice of the japanese army to loot and rape. the ashigaru is famous for looting and raping for 500 years. but from a traditional viewpoint the worst crime of imperial japan is cowardice of the entire country on a massive scale. lack of remorse and humility.

And the Chinese armies are great right? Dude, your viewpoint is pretty skewed.
And all this ridiculous talk of ww2 in regards to this earthquake.

yeesh, if you're going to be a hater, fine, but don't expect any love when that's what you are putting out into the world. :)

Your post here is fantastically uninformed Bawang. It's as if someone fed you a huge lie as a truth about the war.

And for the record, no one admits their war crimes. Americans don't, Chinese don't Japanese don't and others are forced to or like above, complete fabrications are constructed to sell an idea that otherwise couldn't be sold.

ww2 was bad, all involved are culpable. Most are gone now and none if any of us here has experienced that scale of horror except through historical sense.

Anyway, the Chinese/Japanese hate thing is very odd and doesn't progress anything at all. It continues a negative.




the cause of all this, bushido, is an abomination. its a disgusting parody, a vile doppleganger of chinese martial morality.
where the tang dynasty wushi dao was loyalty to the country, show humility and compassion to the civilians and protect them, bushido is loyalty to any warlord that pays you, victory at any cost, glorifying death, and kill any civilian that doesnt respect you.

You are fairly assumptive here and are projecting the victim view. Yet you have never been victimized. This is what I find odd. It's like 20 something black kids from Georgia ranting about the early 1800's. Or Natives going off about what happened in the 1700's.

These are all false reasons to create and nurture hatred, xenophobia and fear of each other.

quite frankly, I expect it, but at the same time I see it as a failing in human nature.

It's done, it's over. Move on.

[bawang]

you guys are not gonna like this, but in chinese martial art morality, the sins of the father passes to his children, and a debt must be repaid, regardless of feelings.

i dont foam a the mouth against japanese, i never deeply hated japan. but since i started kung fu and learning about chinese culture, i act what the customs of my forefathers demands me to act, think what it demands me to think ,and say what it demands me to say. this is the true power and purpose of chinese martial arts.

i accept and embrace all aspects of chinese martial arts, even aspects that are seen as primitive and backwards. aspects that are not usually told to westerners.

my anger is not a grudge against the war, its because i embrace war.

[taai gihk yahn]

my anger is not a grudge against the war, its because i embrace war.

the university you go to, it has metal detectors, yes? ;)

[bawang]

i hide them up my anoos. i ate a lot of lead paint when i was a kid.

[wenshu]

i hide them up my anoos. i ate a lot of lead paint when i was a kid.

Metallurgy fail.

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7SCVNA7Z8

[David Jamieson]

you guys are not gonna like this, but in chinese martial art morality, the sins of the father passes to his children, and a debt must be repaid, regardless of feelings. Yeah, we don't like this because it is retarded and backwards.


i dont foam a the mouth against japanese, i never deeply hated japan. but since i started kung fu and learning about chinese culture, i act what the customs of my forefathers demands me to act, think what it demands me to think ,and say what it demands me to say. this is the true power and purpose of chinese martial arts. Now yer just trollin jelly. lol


i accept and embrace all aspects of chinese martial arts, even aspects that are seen as primitive and backwards. aspects that are not usually told to westerners. not told to westerners because it is ludicrous bullcrap that requires cultural power contextually to get people to give it buy in through appealing to nationalistic or ethnic pride. :rolleyes: also, no you don't. lol


my anger is not a grudge against the war, its because i embrace war. NO you don't, you are a student and not a soldier. If you embraced war, you'd be in the sh1t right now.

Hater. :p

[bawang]

it was 70% serious 30% troll

[sanjuro_ronin]

it was 70% serious 30% troll

But 100% Bawang !!

[lkfmdc]

I agree that the Japanese government should have take care of this issue a long time ago.
Not sure what that has to do with some villager in Sendai.



it explains why 67 years later you still have people who have strong negative feelings towards Japan and actually see this as some sort of karmic retribution

I am not one of them, but I do see a society which has never come to terms with its past

[sanjuro_ronin]

it explains why 67 years later you still have people who have strong negative feelings towards Japan and actually see this as some sort of karmic retribution

I am not one of them, but I do see a society which has never come to terms with its past

Slippery slope though.

[lkfmdc]

There is a difference between war crimes committed by certain members of a military force and a POLICY of war crimes directed from the leadership

Ie a soldier who rapes is a criminal, but if he rapes because that is what his government told him to do, that is far far worse

The general goal of war is to kill to "win", not pretty but even that generally has certain parameters

When the goal is to kill until there is no one left of a certain nationality or ethnic group, very different story

Name another colonial power whose express written policy was to take women from their colonial possessions and force them into prostitution for their army?

Where part of that policy was to sterilize them so they wouldn't have periods and "mess things up"?

Stalin was a pretty sick F-K , he killed the entire families of political rivals so there would be no one left to take revenge on him, but he didn't decide "oh, let's just kill everyone who speaks Georgian" etc.....

Russians have repudiated Stalin

Chinese have repudiated Mao (yes, they have)

The Japanese refuse any detail of their actions in their history books

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is a difference between war crimes committed by certain members of a military force and a POLICY of war crimes directed from the leadership

Ie a soldier who rapes is a criminal, but if he rapes because that is what his government told him to do, that is far far worse

The general goal of war is to kill to "win", not pretty but even that generally has certain parameters

When the goal is to kill until there is no one left of a certain nationality or ethnic group, very different story

Name another colonial power whose express written policy was to take women from their colonial possessions and force them into prostitution for their army?

Where part of that policy was to sterilize them so they wouldn't have periods and "mess things up"?

Stalin was a pretty sick F-K , he killed the entire families of political rivals so there would be no one left to take revenge on him, but he didn't decide "oh, let's just kill everyone who speaks Georgian" etc.....

Russians have repudiated Stalin

Chinese have repudiated Mao (yes, they have)

The Japanese refuse any detail of their actions in their history books

Well Staling did kill many a priest, just because they were priests.
But that is neither here nor there and you are right, the Japanese SHOULD come clean and assume responsibility for what they did in WW2.
And yes, people CAN lack sympathy for them because of that.
Still has nothing to do with the people that went through this, just like whatever issues people have with the US has nothing to do with what the people of NO went through with Katrina.

Or the People of Haiti or the People in Iran, etc, etc

[David Jamieson]

*snip*

Russians have repudiated Stalin

Chinese have repudiated Mao (yes, they have)

The Japanese refuse any detail of their actions in their history books

Russians repudiating Stalin:
http://visualrian.com/storage/PreviewWM/1861/64/186164.jpg?1245136468

How the Chinese have repudiated Mao:
http://images.travelpod.com/tw_slides/ta00/bbb/04a/mausoleum-of-mao-tse-tung-beijing.jpg

As for Japan, they agreed to make reparations of over a billion Yen at the end of WW2.

For the record, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Hirohito and anyone else who ordered any of the 20th century atrocities associated with ww2 is dead.

Holding a 67 year old grudge when you are 20 something is ludicrous. It's ludicrous at 40.

It is so not connected to the here and now that it actually impedes on growth of mind and spirit to hang onto the hate of your ancestors.

Why make excuses for this low behaviour? Is it justified by another low behaviour? Of course not, it is an example of a pig in it's sty reveling in it's own waste. Nothing to be gained. Nothing.

[Syn7]

didnt you guys learn anything from sarah palin???

its "refudiate"...

get it straight... :p

[Syn7]

Holding a 67 year old grudge when you are 20 something is ludicrous. It's ludicrous at 40.


yeah but if the grandfathers dont accept responsibility for their actions, how can we expect the 20 year olds to learn any better??? and they learn that version of events in school... once all the people who were there are dead and long gone, they will start seeing their version as the truth more and more... they have paid their price for acting up, fair enough... but an acknowledgment is also important...

i have some issue with germany over this as well... all considering, they got off pretty lightly... in my view, if canadians started killing every east indian and were dead set on eliminating the whole race and i, as a canadian didnt do anything to stop it, i would be guilty too... if i didnt do everything in my power to stop it, i am guilty guilty guilty... if i didnt form, or join, a resistance movement then i am guilty of genocide... in my eyes, every german that just kept quiet and did their best to not get involved is guilty... especially in a democracy... electing a monster is bad enough, but not tearing him down after you fukced up and elected the guy is wrong... there were alot of proud germans rooting for their team who werent willing to admit that later on when they realized it wasnt very popular... they are guilty...

im not holding a grudge or anything... i only say this cause its already been brought up... its not something i really think about... but when i do, thats where my mind goes with it...

[David Jamieson]

Japan has repeatedly and publicly apologized for it's colonial efforts across Asia. But it is always deemed insincere.

A bridge is best utilized when traffic flows both ways.

Sometimes it is highly appropriate to think along the lines of what is done is done.

[Syn7]

sometimes....


im sure lots of people are sincere... but a lot arent...

[lkfmdc]

google "Japan denies war crimes" and you will get a sh-i-t storm of stories, verging on absurd (and repulsive)

[Syn7]

Let me Google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Japan+denies+war+crimes)

[Syn7]

i was reading this article that said:


Leaks from Fukushima have already spread some radiation from the plant, briefly raising levels in Tokyo to 10 times normal levels, but are far below the level of a catastrophic release that would pose a wide threat to human health, experts say.


so after reading that there is one question that begs to be asked... if its 10 times the NORMAL levels of radiation what exactly is the normal levels of radiation? are we talking natural occurrences or man made? you get a certain amount naturally, but are they subject to man made radiation on the regular? are you, where you live?



Crick at UNSCEAR said that long-term exposure after Chernobyl for people living in Ukraine, Belarus and Russia was about 10 millisieverts, the equivalent of the radiation in one CT scan, a special type of x-ray. People pick up about 2.4 millisieverts a year in background radiation.

so thats the amount of natural radiation... is tokyos 10X 2.4 millisieverts/year or is it a different number for them?

on average, how much radiation does a plant expose to the people around it? do towns with plants have higher cancer rates? not counting those that work there, that is.



heres the full article... nothing special tho...
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/worst-case-nuclear-cloud-seen-limited-japan-20110316-094830-218.html

[wenshu]

Silly ppl think Chinese killing Chinese upon the end of a Dynastic cycle is something new.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_LZZ116SJC7Q/TYL3T2RndxI/AAAAAAAABbE/BrfecMUr4OA/s800/chinese%20dynastic%20succesion.jpg

[Violent Designs]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_LZZ116SJC7Q/TYL3T2RndxI/AAAAAAAABbE/BrfecMUr4OA/s800/chinese%20dynastic%20succesion.jpg

I am going to so give this to my East Asian Studies professor, LOL.

You are the best!!!!! :D

[Syn7]

usually the dynasty is at an end because of the killing, not the other way around lol...

[wenshu]

I am going to so give this to my East Asian Studies professor, LOL.

You are the best!!!!! :D

Feel free. Glad you liked it.

[SPJ]

the rise and fall of a dynasty--

there are many factors.

just consider political power struggle alone.

1. song dynasty, zhao rose from being a general, so when he seized power. he invited all the generals that helped him to a banquet. after some wining, he forced all of them to retire or go home to farm. so that no one may rise to power just like him-- release the military/commander power with a cup of wine.


2. cultural revolution, mao lost power and stayed in shang hai.

he allowed or let loose the red guards--

he used general lin biao to remove all his political enemies or possible successors to him

he then removed general lin. general lin was framed to be a traitor, he died in a plane crash from beijing to russia. some said russian some said chinese, it was a missle that took down the escape plane.

without all of his political enemies, with CKS far away in Taiwan, mao was depressed and died a "lonely" man, since all of his friends that helped him to his throne or establishing PRC were persecuted by him, general lin biao, general he long, peng zheng, defense minister peng de huai---

cultural revolution was started by using student masses to remove power from mao's "enemies", the red guards to protect the leftist road and protect mao, deng and others were walking the capitalist path, and the soviet was walking the revisionist path-- so little red book/monologue of mao is the only truth or bible
so loyal and stay with mao---

it went out of control---

[David Jamieson]

Let me Google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Japan+denies+war+crimes)

so, 1 story from the star (T.O news rag)that goes back a few years, one site from a video game forum where 12 year olds blather about politics and wars they know nothing about and the other is from a tin foil hat site.

I'm sure there are plenty of incidences to point at where one could interpret the Japanese denial as widespread. But there are just as many public apologies fro war crimes and admissions etc.

It is almost always met with "that's not sincere" or "that's not enough"

People really need to learn to let go of their hate. It resolves nothing, gets nowhere and leaves the scar unhealed.

Equally, people must be allowed their silent shame.

It helps the healing process. It's not like they don't know and we don't know.

People should grow up and act like adults instead of vengeful batcrap crazy lunatics. The world has had enough of that already.

[Syn7]

thats funny... to be honest, i didnt actually look at any of the links... im not even interested in looking... i just like that LMGTFY page and threw it up in response to lkfmdc post... but now i want to go look...

i can think of better search words for that kind of info tho...


truth is, all nations deny their war crimes... not all the time, but usually... if you live in a country that has a military, chances are they have committed war crimes to some extent... thats just how it goes... i understand why some people would be quick to let things go, for the sake of peaceful relations... and i understand why some people cant let go... personally, i have no emotional investment in that war at all... my interests are purely intellectual...


Canada's hidden war crimes

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/canada/story.html?id=93a75181-0327-4d66-892a-4b450be95e11

One of the country's leading war historians has amassed disturbing evidence that German troops trying to surrender during the First World War were "frequently executed" by Canadian soldiers gripped by fear or hungry for revenge.

[lkfmdc]

remarks by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe
http://www.thestar.com/article/187793


100 Japanese governing party lawmakers denounced the Nanjing Massacre as a fabrication
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/world/asia/19iht-nanking.1.6208148.html



China: Japan can’t deny ‘Rape of Nanking’
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:S0F48ii6MHoJ:www.chinapost.com.tw/international/113060.htm+japan+denies+nanking+massacre&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com


Japanese filmmaker says "Nanjing never happened"
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2007/12/14/uk-japan-china-nanjing-idUKT24924820071214

[lkfmdc]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-03-05-japan-sex-slaves_N.htm?csp=15

http://www.pacificwar.org.au/JapWarCrimes/Denying_truth.html

http://historytodaymagazine.blogspot.com/2008/11/japanese-military-chief-dismissed.html

[lkfmdc]

http://www.cnn.com/books/news/9905/25/nanking.salon/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

[TAO YIN]

:confused:

So a few people at the top apologized a few times, then a few didn't. A few denied actions, and a few didn't? What is the idea we are looking for here? What is the point?

Some apologized and there were a few films made. Some didn't apologize and there were a few films made...

A wholehearted apology is unlikely, from any government. Japan lost that sino war anyways; they can't even have a normal army because of it...

[David Jamieson]

*snip*


Canada's hidden war crimes

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/canada/story.html?id=93a75181-0327-4d66-892a-4b450be95e11

Canada, better than you think, worse than you know.

Canadian soldiers in wartime in both world wars got a reputation for visciousness because of a frequent "no prisoners" attitude towards their attacks.

This doesn't match the optics of everything following the 2nd ww in which we basically dismantled our forces which had the 3rd largest navy in the world a comparable air force to any and a huge army.

[SPJ]

a week has passed

nuclear power plant explosions contained

some rains/snows fall

the earth is still shaking

---

prayer, prayer, prayer

---

[Drake]

a week has passed

nuclear power plant explosions contained

some rains/snows fall

the earth is still shaking

---

prayer, prayer, prayer

---

Prayers haven't done a whole lot for the 10k+ who are likely dead, have they? How about instead of praying we proactively get involved with the relief effort? Prayers do nothing. The money I donated did something.

[Drake]

Canada, better than you think, worse than you know.

Canadian soldiers in wartime in both world wars got a reputation for visciousness because of a frequent "no prisoners" attitude towards their attacks.

This doesn't match the optics of everything following the 2nd ww in which we basically dismantled our forces which had the 3rd largest navy in the world a comparable air force to any and a huge army.

If it happened before the Geneva Convention, how is it a war crime? A conventional war of that scale and magnitude, I'm surprised there was any respect for human life at all. If you just watched German soldiers mow down your entire battalion within 5 minutes, and then throw up their hands in surrender, you tell me how a person might react, especially with no laws in place to tell them what right looks like.

[Syn7]

If it happened before the Geneva Convention, how is it a war crime? A conventional war of that scale and magnitude, I'm surprised there was any respect for human life at all. If you just watched German soldiers mow down your entire battalion within 5 minutes, and then throw up their hands in surrender, you tell me how a person might react, especially with no laws in place to tell them what right looks like.

im sure i wouldve done the same... you can only be attacked and see your friends die so much before you dont care about rules anymore... even if you are the aggressor, you will still "feel" like you are right... like i said, where there are soldiers and war, there are war crimes... its just how it is...


lots of laws are used retroactively... but the geneva convention is different, cause its more of an agreement than anything... untill these parties agreed, all was fair game...

[David Jamieson]

As it is above, so it is below.

The macrocosm IS the microcosm.

Observation is a great teacher.

When combined with hindsight and foreknowledge, it is the most excellent teacher.

I don't have a video proving this.

:)

[Syn7]

If you cant find it on youtube, it isnt for real...

[YouKnowWho]

I have to show this, so people will understand what Japanese had done to Chinese.

It's very difficult for me to control my emotion everytime I look at those pictures. Will I forgive them? Of course not!

http://www.google.com/images?q=%E5%8D%97%E4%BA%AC%E5%A4%A7%E5%B1%A0%E6%A E%BA&hl=en&rlz=1I7DLUS_en&prmd=ivnscum&source=lnms&tbs=isch:1&ei=7-WHTbSJEOuI0QHzm7zfDQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBIQ_AUoAQ&biw=1379&bih=857

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_weCk_rq3xp8/TComTec1S1I/AAAAAAAAANM/WELqdKucdZ0/s1600/200712130358pubvp1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://thisiskimhere.blogspot.com/2010/06/no11.html&usg=__WtvKbIdXFGZJYvM6dZtKhjxPoSg=&h=357&w=632&sz=71&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=YqcqfECmnrGXzM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=156&ei=sumHTbuqG6bk0gGN1_CTDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25E5%258D%2597%25E4%25BA%25AC%25E5%2 5A4%25A7%25E5%25B1%25A0%25E6%25AE%25BA%26hl%3Den%2 6sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1I7DLUS_en%26biw%3D1379%26bih%3D85 7%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Divnscum&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=700&vpy=264&dur=73&hovh=169&hovw=299&tx=225&ty=92&oei=temHTajkIOaD0QH_9vTBDg&page=1&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://news.xinhuanet.com/forum/2005-12/13/xinsrc_5921202130955123166997.jpg&imgrefurl=http://big5.xinhuanet.com/gate/big5/news.xinhuanet.com/forum/2005-12/13/content_3913467.htm&usg=__q2I04P505bzdMpMfjUGFQlGsDk8=&h=572&w=900&sz=98&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=8Vl3QQZNUuXTsM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=153&ei=zumHTfDfELC60QHM7tS7Dg&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25E5%258D%2597%25E4%25BA%25AC%25E5%2 5A4%25A7%25E5%25B1%25A0%25E6%25AE%25BA%26hl%3Den%2 6sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1I7DLUS_en%26biw%3D1379%26bih%3D85 7%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Divnscum&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=305&oei=z-mHTdfoMqG90QHtu9GsDg&page=1&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0&tx=97&ty=61

http://tupian.hudong.com/a0_00_68_01300000242726126067686534506_jpg.html

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stnn.cc:82/cul_review/200702/W020070208373285098989.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stnn.cc:82/cul_review/200702/t20070208_465438.html&usg=__y96ojcX7XZEYcIsCOvIUKeLV7D4=&h=380&w=300&sz=50&hl=en&start=23&zoom=1&tbnid=nMZm5kCFtXgO3M:&tbnh=182&tbnw=126&ei=cOqHTYv6Fs6WtwfYsO3yDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25E5%258D%2597%25E4%25BA%25AC%25E5%2 5A4%25A7%25E5%25B1%25A0%25E6%25AE%25BA%26hl%3Den%2 6sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1I7DLUS_en%26biw%3D1379%26bih%3D85 7%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Divnscum&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=323&oei=bOqHTbmAJM680QHk1ZWzDg&page=2&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:23&tx=72&ty=46

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.article.pchome.net/00/16/80/13/1227.jpg&imgrefurl=http://article.pchome.net/content-186199.html&usg=__90ySPq0adb4zSiPV8LRfMgjRpPg=&h=400&w=284&sz=46&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=_FTtoUVUCHBd0M:&tbnh=161&tbnw=106&ei=ku6HTYfVGOyG0QGNwqSzDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25E5%258D%2597%25E4%25BA%25AC%25E5%2 5A4%25A7%25E5%25B1%25A0%25E6%25AE%25BA%26hl%3Den%2 6sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1I7DLUS_en%26biw%3D1379%26bih%3D85 7%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Divnscum&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=125&vpy=72&dur=107&hovh=267&hovw=189&tx=96&ty=135&oei=lO6HTbarAq-90QG_orG-Dg&page=1&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

[David Jamieson]

then the bitterness and negative emotion will continue.

forgiveness only frees you from that horror. :)

[Syn7]

I have to show this, so people will understand what Japanese had done to Chinese.

It's very difficult for me to control my emotion everytime I look at those pictures. Will I forgive them? Of course not!

so are you saying you have a hate on for the japanese??? who exactly are you mad at and who are you not forgiving??? nazis did nasty sh1t to canadian troops and people im related to in europe, but i dont hate all germans for it... even tho i think the country got off really light all considering...

[Syn7]

anyways, this is the japanese earthquake and tsunami thread... so heres an interesting article...


Chernobyl Cleanup Survivor's Message for Japan: 'Run Away as Quickly as Possible'


What message do you have for Japan?

Run away as quickly as possible. Don't wait. Save yourself and don't rely on the government because the government lies. They don't want you to know the truth because the nuclear industry is so powerful.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/22/chernobyl-cleanup-survivors-message-for-japan-run-away-as-qui/

[Eric Olson]

This is why you shouldn't repost stuff that you find lying around the internet until you have some idea about who wrote it and what their qualifications are:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20266-how-josef-oehmens-advice-on-fukushima-went-viral.html?page=1

EO

[GeneChing]

A martial fundraiser - there's another one I posted last week on the Shaolin forum (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1085576#post1085576).


Tomizaki's Kung Fu holding break-a-thon to benefit Japan relief fund (http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_17734613?nclick_check=1)
Concord Transcript
Posted: 03/30/2011 11:54:39 AM PDT

Tomizaki's Champions Kung Fu Institute will be holding a Break-A-Thon at 3 p.m. Saturday, April 2, to raise money for the American Red Cross Japan Earthquake and Tsunami Relief Fund.

There will be a lion dance, followed by kung fu performances, and a finale by Master Daniel Tomizaki breaking 100 boards.

Tomizaki's is joining the Ogawa family in trying to raise $500,000, which the Ogawas will match up to $500,000 for a total of $1 million.

The Break-A-Thon will be held at Tomizaki's Champions Kung Fu Institute at 4475 K Treat Blvd., Concord. Sponsors can make tax-deductible donations to the American Red Cross. For information and donations, visit http://www.crowdrise.com/handsforjapan/fundraiser/TomizakisChampions.

For more information, call 925-671-7100.

[Violent Designs]

so are you saying you have a hate on for the japanese??? who exactly are you mad at and who are you not forgiving??? nazis did nasty sh1t to canadian troops and people im related to in europe, but i dont hate all germans for it... even tho i think the country got off really light all considering...

I'm sorry to disagree but white people have a very different history. Essentially until Akihito or a future emperor kowtow/dogeza it won't mean SH1T to any Chinese.

Hirohito Emperor didn't get sh1t for backlash for authorizing biological warfare, toxic chemicals, scorched earth, etc. Lies and coverups for Unit 731 from the government head and imperial family.

Let's not get into the other denials and sh1t espoused by the prime minister and other political authority from Japan.

I can't speak for YouKnowWho but if you're asking who I personally hate, then I'll tell you, the f*cking political leaders who keep downplaying what was basically the holocaust of Asia, and that "pure imperial bloodline" who turned a blind eye on everything that happened as soon as they lost the war.

But I'm sorry, the f*cking sacred family tree of Amaterasu can't be tainted or soiled by apologizing to the subhuman Chinese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7yDOXGmtro

Go to 10:00 minutes of this video and tell me if there was a man who infected your family, friends, ancestors or whatever with bacteria and other diseases, gutting them alive in the name of "science," raped and murdered women and is walking around alive and free celebrated like a hero and the government responsible for their actions doesn't do sh1t. Not just one or two. The whole lot of them. The people who called the shots. tMaybe you don't care or can look past that **** but sorry, not me.

[bawang]

so are you saying you have a hate on for the japanese??? who exactly are you mad at and who are you not forgiving??? ...

ask your fellow americans the same thing about muslims

It's very difficult for me to control my emotion everytime I look at those pictures. Will I forgive them? Of course not!

i forgive them.

[SPJ]

imagine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJrwTgFt3Ek&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQRuYS_h-Vs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf_Boqm1gA0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0F_6plYyTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0Eyw3l3XM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPeB6kGxWY0

---

imagine

---

[SPJ]

my relatives went to high school in chong qing

they had to run for bomb shelter all day long

--

my other relative fought against Japan from great walls, shang hai, wu han, chang sha, tai er zhuang--

--

people do not forget, may be forgive

--

there were momorial tablets or monument set up in all these localities for chinese soldiers

xi feng kou, tai er zhuang, ---- even inside burma

--