The funny thing with OL lifting…..

[Frost]

SO my question is who here does OL lifting and why?
(being a kung fu forum this thread will probably die a quick death lol but I thought I’d throw it out there)

I ask because a quote I read on another forum a while ago really got me thinking: A well known S and C coach basically said that the countries that dominate lifting in the OL games (Russia, old soviet union, china etc) DON’T train their other athletes with OL lifts, the Russians for example use plyometrics, squat jumps, object throwing

Where as countries that generally s*ck at OL lifting (the USA, UK for example) always try and throw them in as the answer to everything when it comes to explosive training

What do people think? If you train the OL lifts why do you do this above other explosive work?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't do them as a major part of my ST, I prefer the powerlifting ones, namely the squat and the DL, but I do the over head press portion.
The main reason is I don't have the flooring for it.

[Frost]

I have done and still occasionally do the power versions of the clean and the split version of the snatch, both with and without bumper plates lol…..at home I lower it to the thighs and then to the ground like a DL lift

What I suppose my question was is why are some colleges and schools in the west so bent on teaching the power clean……..does it have any more of a carryover than say broad jumps, box jumps etc

My best power clean at one stage was 220, I spent several months not doing the lifts but doing explosive squat jumps, box jumps, broad jumps and bounds, when I did some cleans for a laugh I hit 240, technique was to pot lol but it went up, so I wonder if the OL lifts build explosiveness or like Dave Tate and the rest argue it expresses it and the explosiveness is better build through easier learned methods

[sanjuro_ronin]

There tends to be "trends" in ST, like with everything else and this is one of those cases.
OL need to be done to learn the path ways just like in PL ( the main reason that HIT doesn't lend itself to well to OL and PL is that you don't do enough to get the pathways fixed in).
OL manifest strength in OL, just like PL manifest strength developed in PL BUT the "side work" done to support the lifts is what makes a crucial difference.
Just like doing Ol can boost your spring and doing sprints can boost your OL.
Sometimes it is a question of "resting" the muscles involved in the OL and other times it is about developing the supporting muscles more.
Our bodies are notorious in doing the LEAST they have to.

[Oso]

I thought it was fun????

I miss it and can't wait to move and find either an OL gym or a CF gym that is not cult like.

Obviously, in CF, we/they do box jumps and broad jumps and whatnot too.

I don't have any other scientific or non-scientific answer. I just found that I liked trying to pick **** up quick. :)

[Oso]

huh...just had a thought.

so...if the russians don't train OL lifting to get good at OL lifting then where does that leave the 'SAID' principal?

[viper]

I do OL lifting at a club not for any crossover to kung fu. I lift for fun any power crossover is a bonus.

[sanjuro_ronin]

huh...just had a thought.

so...if the russians don't train OL lifting to get good at OL lifting then where does that leave the 'SAID' principal?

Said means that to get good at A we must do A, it doesn't say that we can ONLY do A to get good at A.
The russians may supplement their OL, but they still do OL on a regular basis.

[Frost]

Said means that to get good at A we must do A, it doesn't say that we can ONLY do A to get good at A.
The russians may supplement their OL, but they still do OL on a regular basis.

yep let me be a bit clearer, other than the OL lifters, they didnt train their other athletes with OL lifts, only the OL lifters used the lifts, track guys, team sports guys etc did not use them, neither did the wrestlers etc

if a country that is actually very good at the OL lifts doesnt see the need to train any other athletes with the lifts, why do countries that suck at the lifts (USA, UK) push them as the be all answer for explosiveness

[sanjuro_ronin]

yep let me be a bit clearer, other than the OL lifters, they didnt train their other athletes with OL lifts, only the OL lifters used the lifts, track guys, team sports guys etc did not use them, neither did the wrestlers etc

if a country that is actually very good at the OL lifts doesnt see the need to train any other athletes with the lifts, why do countries that suck at the lifts (USA, UK) push them as the be all answer for explosiveness

Well, the other side of the coin is that the US and the Uk and Jamaica DO train their sprinters with explosive lifts and they DO have a far better record of sprint achievement then the Russians.

[Oso]

Said means that to get good at A we must do A, it doesn't say that we can ONLY do A to get good at A.
The russians may supplement their OL, but they still do OL on a regular basis.

point.




.....

[Frost]

Well, the other side of the coin is that the US and the Uk and Jamaica DO train their sprinters with explosive lifts and they DO have a far better record of sprint achievement then the Russians.

are you argueing the reason they do better is the OL lifting and NOT the genetic superiority certain populations have in regards to sprinting :)

they also use OL lifting for their wrestlers, judo guys, rugby players etc and look how well that works for them :)

My point was simply wondering why in countries where OL lifting is a very badly run and competed sport people put so much faith in them, i have never seen any study showing them to be superior to other far more simple methods

Another point would be the SAID principle you brought up i have yet to see good research showing carry over from vertical explosive movements (OL lifts etc) to forward moving horizonal explosive movements, sprinting bounding etc biomacanically they are very different,

[sanjuro_ronin]

are you argueing the reason they do better is the OL lifting and NOT the genetic superiority certain populations have in regards to sprinting :)

they also use OL lifting for their wrestlers, judo guys, rugby players etc and look how well that works for them :)

My point was simply wondering why in countries where OL lifting is a very badly run and competed sport people put so much faith in them, i have never seen any study showing them to be superior to other far more simple methods

Another point would be the SAID principle you brought up i have yet to see good research showing carry over from vertical explosive movements (OL lifts etc) to forward moving horizonal explosive movements, sprinting bounding etc biomacanically they are very different,

Well, genetics is a given at the elite level and one must never discount the fact that world champs and elite performers are NOT normal, hence their elite status.

OL as supplementary strength conditioning is the "newest" fad and it may well be a case of "doesn't hurt may help" or a case of getting results because the OL program gives them a break from the sport specific stuff and allows for general whole body strength to be developed, which is always a good thing.

To be honest, in my view, adding ANY ST to ANY sport will help, regardless of the type.

[DBAC]

To be honest, in my view, adding ANY ST to ANY sport will help, regardless of the type.

I assume you only believe this if the ST is done properly.

I only bring that up because I've seen lots of OL guys complain about this latest trend where everyone thinks they are an amateur OL'er and adds it to their training regiment. The most common statements seem to be that proper form isn't used which can be more problematic than beneficial.

I have never done an OL, so I wouldn't know, but I am curious how these comments play in your discussion.

[Frost]

I assume you only believe this if the ST is done properly.

I only bring that up because I've seen lots of OL guys complain about this latest trend where everyone thinks they are an amateur OL'er and adds it to their training regiment. The most common statements seem to be that proper form isn't used which can be more problematic than beneficial.

I have never done an OL, so I wouldn't know, but I am curious how these comments play in your discussion.

its certainly part of my thinking currently, if jumps, explosive med ball work etc can get the same results but are much easier to learn and thus safer, why bother with the OL lifts?

[Oso]

its certainly part of my thinking currently, if jumps, explosive med ball work etc can get the same results but are much easier to learn and thus safer, why bother with the OL lifts?

cuz it's fun and you like it?

just found out this weekend that another ex-Crossfitter from my old gym has her OL cert (as well as qualifying for nationals) and is going to open an OL gym.

[Frost]

cuz it's fun and you like it?

just found out this weekend that another ex-Crossfitter from my old gym has her OL cert (as well as qualifying for nationals) and is going to open an OL gym.

thats fair enough, but my question was really for those who used it primarily as a sports performance method, from that light fun doesnt come into it but risk reward and effective ness and learning curve does

[donjitsu2]

SO my question is who here does OL lifting and why?
(being a kung fu forum this thread will probably die a quick death lol but I thought I’d throw it out there)

I ask because a quote I read on another forum a while ago really got me thinking: A well known S and C coach basically said that the countries that dominate lifting in the OL games (Russia, old soviet union, china etc) DON’T train their other athletes with OL lifts, the Russians for example use plyometrics, squat jumps, object throwing

Where as countries that generally s*ck at OL lifting (the USA, UK for example) always try and throw them in as the answer to everything when it comes to explosive training

What do people think? If you train the OL lifts why do you do this above other explosive work?

I train variations of the Oly lifts - The Power Clean and the Power Snatch (both from the Hang position). I only incorporate them during certain cycles (4-6 weeks once or twice a year). They are quite good at developing explosive strength but I still prefer other drills.

Most of my explosive strength and speed strength work is done with kettlebells, medicine balls, and explosive bodyweight drills (jumping squats, plyo-pushups, ect...). Virtually every 4-6 week cycle incorporates some of these drills.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say kettlebells, medicine balls, and bodyweight drills are *better* than the Oly Lifts I would say they are more convenient.

Train Hard,
Josh Skinner.

[Oso]

thats fair enough, but my question was really for those who used it primarily as a sports performance method, from that light fun doesnt come into it but risk reward and effective ness and learning curve does

not to split hairs but the first part of the question was simply 'who' and 'why':p;)