Hate Pastor Terry Jones Quietly Goes Through With Quran Burning Plan

[Syn7]

Hate Pastor Terry Jones Quietly Goes Through With Quran Burning Plan — And Chaos Erupts in Afghanistan

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/01/terry-jones-burning-chaos/



Radical Pastor Terry Jones Says He’s Considering ‘A Trial On The Life Of Mohammed’

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/03/terry-jones-trial-mohammed/



this guy is such a tool... and now he is directly responsible for 15 dead UN workers... its like the guy insists on swatting at the wasps nest regardless of the consequences for other people... i wish there was a way to charge this guy with a crime.... he's such a piece of sh1t... he has no regard for the position he puts other people in by being such a d1ck... its hard to convince people this isnt a holy war when they turn on al jezeera and see this bonesmoker burning their book...

[Sihing73]

Hello,

While I may not agree with his approach, he is expressing his right to Freedom of Speech. Much like those who protested the Viet Nam war burned the US Flag in protest.

What I find interesting is that others can say whatever they want about America, Christ or insert your favorite person/religous symbol here and it is okay. Just expressing themselves. However when anyone does anything against Islam then all of a sudden people get up in arms. Heck, even putting a cartoon about Mohammed is enough to get you killed.

Not so long ago an apartment complex in Oregon tried to ban the flying of the American Flag on their property. Other flags were okay just not Old Glory. However after a bigu uproar they reveresed their policy. Apparently they had gotten some complaints from residents who thought our Flag was offensive. Go figure. Sorry but my attitude is that if you find the U.S. Flag offesnive and do not want to see it waving in the wind........youhave every right to move to another country where you won't have to see it. Of course, you also may not have many of the freedoms found here in America.

[Syn7]

my issue isnt about the first amendment... its not about flags or books or anything like that.... and i dont care about the quran at all... but this guy got the attention of radicals last time he proposed this burning thing... they said if he did that, innocents would die... even the general in charge of the whole war asked him to please not do it... they cant stop him, but its counterproductive on a massive scale... all for one small church and a shady man with a violent criminal past and massive ego... last time he backed down... after tons of top dogs stroked his ego and asked nicely... he misses that attention, everything else he's done between now and then has pretty much stayed under the radar... no matter how hard he tries, most media just decided to not give him the time of day...

so now he goes off and does it, and 15 people are dead... he was warned and he did it anyways... so what, he sacrifices 15 OTHER peoples lives so that he can floss his right to free speech? thats bullsh1t, he's worse than garbage...


its your right to speak... but if i put a gun to someones head and say "if you speak, these people die" and you speak anyways, youre a d1ck... str8 up... there are other ways of dealing with things... at the very least, minimizing pain and suffering in any given situation... what he did was negligent... i dont think he should be charged for burning the book... i think he should be charged with inciting violence, contributing to a capital crime... and we all know what that means... of course that cant happen... if they were on american soil sure, but it was UN territory... and the UN cant do fukc all about it... not to him anyways... im sure they'll go after the actual group that did it...

but he knew what would happen... and he was either too stupid, too ignorant or too cold to find another way to express his hatred... i dont grudge him being a miserable pr1ck... but this one happened to just get 15 people killed...

i couldnt care any less about flag politics... i think you should be able to fly any colors you want... burn any book you want.... handle your property any way you please... within reason, of course... as long as everyone is being respected, its all good... unfortunately its not like that at all... westerners are infested with third world workers that literally bring down the quality of life for everyone, and these people who grew up in a bad place come to the west for a chance at a better life, free from abuse and free to pursue their dreams then they get here only to have people treat them like sh1t and blame them for everything... multiculturalism is an abysmal failure... im not saying we shouldnt have complete integration as our end game, but its all happening too fast and alot of people arent able to change fast enough and react badly to their failure to keep up... we should really consider closing the door... leave it at a trickle... import only enough to fill the projections of our future needs... i can only imagine how corrupt immigration would be if we did that... getting in would cost alot more than it does today...




rant, sorry... just smoked a massive blunt... :o

[Sihing73]

Hello,

It is a sad situation and I do understand what you are saying. However, every time we give in because someone makes a threat of violence we lose something ourselves.

A terrorist takes hostages and demands the release of their comrades. Do we do it even though the hostages are in danger of being killed? Sorry, but to my mind, religous fanactics making threats to kill innocents because someone does something they do not like or find repulsive is the same thing. We have become too politically correct in some instances. No one wanting to take the hard line because they want to try and make everyone happy and keep the peace.

If someone threatens any of ours and follows through then I say go after them with all we have. I'll be the first one to step up and get in line. The problem is not only with people like Jones, but with those who allow the fanatics to dictate terms to them without the fear of any consequences.

I wonder what the result would be if some of these zealots were hunted down like the Israelis went after those responsible for Munich? As long as fanatics can make threats and do as they wish without fear of reprisal nothing will ever change. There is always something someone will find to protest and if they don't get their way they will act out in violence.

My problem with this situaiton is that it is not evenly applied. Jones should not burn the Quran but if someone burns a Bible it is not even the same thing. Seems a little one sided to me.

[SoCo KungFu]

He's a royal moron but all he did was burn a book. He didn't kill anyone. The anger should be sent to the brain dead dip****s that decided a burnt book justifies killing 15 people.

They burn flags, bibles and likenesses of prominent Americans and we do little to nothing. But some douchbag goes out and burns a Quran and all a sudden they go rampaging through the streets.

They'll all idiots. But trying to blame their brutal, inhuman behavior on his idiocy is ludicrous.

As much as I hate (and I mean HATE) the overbearing, suffocating christian movement (and I get it bad here in the south) and the utter idiocy they spew, they can't be blamed for this. They already have enough reasons to be hated.

[Hebrew Hammer]

He clearly is a douche bag of the highest quality, that being said, he is not responsible for the actions of the other idiots on the other side of the world. Them killing people who bear no responsibility for this act make them murderers on top of being stupid. The Quran is an inanimate object, just like the flag, the bible or whatever...its simply a symbol that people attach their emotions too. Apparently this is a threat to some...when you burn a symbol, you metaphorically burn someones values or beliefs.

It reminds me of how worked up Cops get about 80s rap songs, or how violent video games make people killers.

[Syn7]

Hello,

It is a sad situation and I do understand what you are saying. However, every time we give in because someone makes a threat of violence we lose something ourselves.

A terrorist takes hostages and demands the release of their comrades. Do we do it even though the hostages are in danger of being killed? Sorry, but to my mind, religous fanactics making threats to kill innocents because someone does something they do not like or find repulsive is the same thing. We have become too politically correct in some instances. No one wanting to take the hard line because they want to try and make everyone happy and keep the peace.

If someone threatens any of ours and follows through then I say go after them with all we have. I'll be the first one to step up and get in line. The problem is not only with people like Jones, but with those who allow the fanatics to dictate terms to them without the fear of any consequences.

I wonder what the result would be if some of these zealots were hunted down like the Israelis went after those responsible for Munich? As long as fanatics can make threats and do as they wish without fear of reprisal nothing will ever change. There is always something someone will find to protest and if they don't get their way they will act out in violence.

My problem with this situaiton is that it is not evenly applied. Jones should not burn the Quran but if someone burns a Bible it is not even the same thing. Seems a little one sided to me.


look you need to get over the one sided argument... it has no bearing on my point... none... he did something he knew would get people hurt... and he didnt do it for god or freedom, he did it for himself...

and that "not giving in to anything" attitude will get everyone killed... the simple fact of the matter is that this is, in part, a holy war and there will have to be times when compramise is needed...


dont antagonize crazy muslims = 15 people still alive... simple... how does burning a book fight these people??? all it does is provoke... its hateful; and its wrong, even if he does have the right to do it... and its not wrong because its a holy book, its wrong because the real world consequences arent worth it...

the west has alot of people who arent mentally and spirtitually ready to mix cultures on a world scale yet...


and your hostage scenario doesnt fly in this situation... its a terrorist saying that if you burn his book, people will die........ and burning his book has no strategic or tactical value... all it is is vindictive and petty... and if we want them to be above that sh1t, we have to do it too...

your focus isnt in the right place here... this isnt about muslim fanatics, its about christian fanatics... its just that the fanatics here are so retarded they get their own people killed rather than taking out an enemy...

i think jones should have to look the families he destroyed in the eye and account for his actions... he ruined 15 families for a principle that doesnt even matter... to make a point that was made forever ago and doesnt need to be made over and over again... to vent hate and spread ignorance...

just cause its not illegal that doesnt make it morally correct.

[Hebrew Hammer]

look you need to get over the one sided argument... it has no bearing on my point... none... he did something he knew would get people hurt... and he didnt do it for god or freedom, he did it for himself.

You raise an interesting point, its an assumption by you, that you know what his real motivations are and its probably true at some level. Although I bet he sees it differently...there are many people who see Christianity as under attack both here and abroad, by the media, the left, and the secular...they see this as a Holy War.

Maybe this is exactly what he wants, to create a proxy war, to stir public opinion against muslims, to create an opportunity for them to demonize themselves to our eyes...and he has.

[Syn7]

He clearly is a douche bag of the highest quality, that being said, he is not responsible for the actions of the other idiots on the other side of the world. Them killing people who bear no responsibility for this act make them murderers on top of being stupid. The Quran is an inanimate object, just like the flag, the bible or whatever...its simply a symbol that people attach their emotions too. Apparently this is a threat to some...when you burn a symbol, you metaphorically burn someones values or beliefs.

It reminds me of how worked up Cops get about 80s rap songs, or how violent video games make people killers.

yes he is... they said they would do that if he went ahead with his plans... its not like he had no idea what would happen... whether the muslim killers or just are not is irrelevant... jones was told that if he did this, people would die... he knew it and he did it anyways... its not like he burned the book then some random act followed that he couldnt predict... he was told straight up, by the muslims and the US military...


of course its stupid to kill over a burned book, but thats not the issue here... he was negligent and people died because of it...

[Syn7]

You raise an interesting point, its an assumption by you, that you know what his real motivations are and its probably true at some level. Although I bet he sees it differently...there are many people who see Christianity as under attack both here and abroad, by the media, the left, and the secular...they see this as a Holy War.

Maybe this is exactly what he wants, to create a proxy war, to stir public opinion against muslims, to create an opportunity for them to sermonize themselves to our eyes...and he has.

what he believes is irerlevant... he was warned and he thought he knew better... like when he goes to normal soldiers funerals and rails at the family of the deceased about how their child is dead because god punishes US soldiers because they tolerate gays in the US...

[Hebrew Hammer]

what he believes is irerlevant... he was warned and he thought he knew better... like when he goes to normal soldiers funerals and rails at the family of the deceased about how their child is dead because god punishes US soldiers because they tolerate gays in the US...

It always fascinates me, how many people believe they know what God wants and how quick they are to pass judgment on others...they are usually the ones who are trying to cover up their failings as human being.

[Syn7]

i find it fascinating that all the answers are basically "burning a book doesnt justify killing 15 people, we should be mad at those who did the killings"... duuuh, you dont say... personally, i didnt feel the need to type that because i thought it was a given... but to be clear

MURDER OVER BULLSH1T = IS BAD

ok?


this is about jones... he was told what would happen and it happened... if i tell you that doing something will get Innocent people killed and it was something so trivial, and you did it anyways, you would be partially responsible for those peoples deaths... and if all this had happened on domestic soil, their would be applicable charges... if he had no warning that would be different... but he was told what would happen and it happened... its an open and shut case...

[Syn7]

It always fascinates me, how many people believe they know what God wants and how quick they are to pass judgment on others...they are usually the ones who are trying to cover up their failings as human being.

its pretty arrogant to think you know whats best... but to force it on everyone else is criminal IMO... i feel oppressed judea-christian values, for sure... if we were actually a real secular society, i'd be laughin'!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is how it works for a Christian, in the words of Christ himself:
Luke 6: 27 -
27 “But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. 30 Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.e Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

and:

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven; 38 give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap; for the measure you give will be the measure you get back.”

39 He also told them a parable: “Can a blind person guide a blind person? Will not both fall into a pit? 40 A disciple is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully qualified will be like the teacher. 41 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’sf eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? 42 Or how can you say to your neighbor,g ‘Friend,h let me take out the speck in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’si eye.

[David Jamieson]

This guy is nothing more than an attention *****.

As for a q'uran, it's a book. People needto get their heads out of their asses in a collective way on this topic.

killing people for burning books is stupid. Period.

Burning books in the hope of having people killed is equally stupid.

they deserve each other and should be locked into a room until they have all killed each other.

last man standing get's shot as he leaves so as to not spread the taint further.

[SoCo KungFu]

of course its stupid to kill over a burned book, but thats not the issue here...

Contrarily, I think that is exactly the issue here.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The word of God can't be contained or limited to a book, ANY book.
The burning of a book that represents ones faith is indeed disturbing but no faith is based on "A book".

[BJJ-Blue]

He's a royal moron but all he did was burn a book. He didn't kill anyone. The anger should be sent to the brain dead dip****s that decided a burnt book justifies killing 15 people.

/thread

But of course we will do anything but blame the murderers for the murders.

[David Jamieson]

/thread

*snip

I agree. The problem isn't burning a book, it's the seriously retarded person who thinks it's ok to murder someone for doing so.

[Hebrew Hammer]

/thread

But of course we will do anything but blame the murderers for the murders.

Nope, I did it in one of my earlier posts. Thanks for playing...:D

[SoCo KungFu]

Nope, I did it in one of my earlier posts. Thanks for playing...:D

Well technically I said it in my first post, which was a post before your first post, so I wins again :D

[Jimbo]

That pastor is worse than an idiot. He probably gets off on the idea that his actions will influence muslims to violence, whether that be against other muslims or U.S. soldiers. And if he does get off on it, that makes him evil -- in the truest sense.

That said, those who committed murders for the burning of a book are even worse. They're nothing but dumb, remote-controlled robots. They did exactly what that pastor wanted them to do; he can get that response from them anytime he wants. He knows just how to control them and push their buttons. Their actions don't affect him in the least. Not his conscience nor his own physical safety. And they're too stupid to see that.

[Syn7]

/thread

But of course we will do anything but blame the murderers for the murders.

come on... dont be so obtuse... at what point did anyone say that the actual perps werent guilty??? quote that one for me... thatthey are guilty is obvious, what else needs to be said? its pretty straight forward... where it concerns jones is where it gets complicated, which is why this thread is about him and not the murderers... if you wanna go on about the obvious, go make a moron thread and be simple as you want... but this thread is about jones... whats so hard about that???

my point is that he did it even tho he knew it would get people killed... now, if he had the balls to go to an afghan village and do it, okay, but he stands behind a shield, does hateful things and in turn got people killed...

now, that wouldnt be so bad if he had no idea what the consequences would be, but he did know... and he did it anyways knowing he himself was safe from the harm that would come to others not even involved... in this guys mind, unless you agree with him you get what you deserve... and those are his words, not mine...


how can one be so simple that they cant see that? the man incited massive violence and doesnt even care... not only that, he's unapologetic and is planning to do even more... he views this as a success... tell that to the 15 families who lost one of their own...


if a guy came to me and said "if you speak to me i will annihilate terry Jones and his church and i decided to speak cause it was my right, how do you suppose jones would feel about that???

IMO the man no longer deserves to live, let alone speak...


to liveon ideals alone and never allow for compramise is the height of ignorance... its a conflicted world with conflicted ideals... thats what balance is all about, thats where a taoist is lightyears ahead of a christian...

[Syn7]

That pastor is worse than an idiot. He probably gets off on the idea that his actions will influence muslims to violence, whether that be against other muslims or U.S. soldiers. And if he does get off on it, that makes him evil -- in the truest sense.

That said, those who committed murders for the burning of a book are even worse. They're nothing but dumb, remote-controlled robots. They did exactly what that pastor wanted them to do; he can get that response from them anytime he wants. He knows just how to control them and push their buttons. Their actions don't affect him in the least. Not his conscience nor his own physical safety. And they're too stupid to see that.

yeah and sacrificing anothers life for your ideal should be a crime and never protected as a right, whatever the action... the first amendment does not cover hate speech and the incitement of violence... he has no right what so ever to sacrifice anothers life for his cause... and the fact that he knew exactly what would happen by burning the books is what makes him guilty, not the actual burning of the book...

im actually surprised that this isnt as obvious to more of you than it is... jimbo is the first one to actually go along the lines i had originally steered the thread and push it a bit further...

[Syn7]

I agree. The problem isn't burning a book, it's the seriously retarded person who thinks it's ok to murder someone for doing so.

how insightful :rolleyes:


thats not what this thread is about... there is no need to speak the obvious... the fact that what you just said has been repeated over and over in this thread is pretty sad...

its wrong to put anothers life in peril for your own ideals... PERIOD... if jones wants to put himself in harms way, fine, have at it... personally, i dont think he has the stones... the man is a cowardly woman beating redneck... it aint right to make somebody else pay for your bullsh1t... ever...

yes its wrong to kill over a burned book, but its a reality and as such needs to be considered when making decisions... whats really fukced up here is that while jones makes a point that doesnt even matter, he got 15 people killed who did have the stones to go and try to make a difference in afghanistan... while terry hides behind a document, these people payed for his arrogance...

can we stop making the point that murdering over a book is wrong now??? does anyone here not understand that killing for burning a book is wrong???

yall should actually read all the posts before you respond... i doubt many of you had actually read this whole thread when you first commented...

[Syn7]

ok question:
inciting violence is a crime... is it inciting violence if the ones that commit the violence at irrationally? even if they said they would act this way beforehand???



what he did here was have a trial and found the book guilty... sentencing suggestions were burning the book, drowning it, shooting it or shredding...


now, after he sees how his trial got a bunch of people killed he has decided it was a success and says next he will put mohammed on trial... how stupid and arrogant is this guy??? clearly he cares more about his ideals than he does for YOUR life... and that aint right, legal or not... i wouldnt shed a tear if somebody put one in the back of this guys head... i would be grateful and consider it a service to all... we cant put him on trial, but we can just kill him on the slide... hopefully somebody close by does it sooner than later... IMO he has forfeit his right to personal safety when he put others in danger...

[Sihing73]

i wouldnt shed a tear if somebody put one in the back of this guys head... i would be grateful and consider it a service to all... we cant put him on trial, but we can just kill him on the slide... hopefully somebody close by does it sooner than later... IMO he has forfeit his right to personal safety when he put others in danger...

Hmm,

By your logic you are just as guilty as he is. If someone were to kill Jones then you would be, by your standard of reasoning, just as guilty as those who did the deed. So, should Jones somehow get killed would you expect to be held accountable? Would you consider yourself guilty of his murder since your words could be argued to incite such action?

[Drake]

ok question:
inciting violence is a crime... is it inciting violence if the ones that commit the violence at irrationally? even if they said they would act this way beforehand???



what he did here was have a trial and found the book guilty... sentencing suggestions were burning the book, drowning it, shooting it or shredding...


now, after he sees how his trial got a bunch of people killed he has decided it was a success and says next he will put mohammed on trial... how stupid and arrogant is this guy??? clearly he cares more about his ideals than he does for YOUR life... and that aint right, legal or not... i wouldnt shed a tear if somebody put one in the back of this guys head... i would be grateful and consider it a service to all... we cant put him on trial, but we can just kill him on the slide... hopefully somebody close by does it sooner than later... IMO he has forfeit his right to personal safety when he put others in danger...


Actually, it's ridiculous that anyone should be afraid of violence from a religion. It was his right to be an utter turd, and he should not be punished for exercising his right to be a turd.

He's not the criminal. The people who murdered those who absolutely nothing to do with the burning are.

Unfortunately, those who committed the crimes gave islam yet another black eye. Most muslims in Afghanistan are simply protesting. The ones who took it a step further are the criminals who should be punished.

Kill a guy for doing something he was legally allowed to do, simply because he incited some savages? Maye that slain Dutch cartoonist who drew Mohammed deserved what he got too? Or the creators of South Park?

[David Jamieson]

A crazy religious nut burning a book is putting no one's life in peril Syn7.
I disagree that he put anyone's l;ife in peril.

What puts peoples life in peril is the idea that burning some material thing is a valid reason to take someones life.

It's not the pastor who did the greater harm, it is the killers and murderers who justify their actions based on this petty action.

If these provocations bring to light just how bad things really are, then I would have a tendency to agree with the pastor on his views in this regard and those murderous scum who acted on that just proved the pastors point.

regardless of what we might think of the pastor, or how we might dislike his approach and his emotional vigour, he proved a point. It's obvious that the provocateur is not the problem, rather it is the level of the deed that was provoked.

So, I sit and watch. I don't care much for people who kill over a book burning. they are the lower form here.

[Syn7]

Hmm,

By your logic you are just as guilty as he is. If someone were to kill Jones then you would be, by your standard of reasoning, just as guilty as those who did the deed. So, should Jones somehow get killed would you expect to be held accountable? Would you consider yourself guilty of his murder since your words could be argued to incite such action?

if somebody came out and said str8 up, that if i said jones should die, he will be killed, then yeah, i would be inciting that violence... but the threat isnt imminent when i say that... whereas he was warned beforehand, right or wrong, that people would die if he did this...

[David Jamieson]

if somebody came out and said str8 up, that if i said jones should die, he will be killed, then yeah, i would be inciting that violence... but the threat isnt imminent when i say that... whereas he was warned beforehand, right or wrong, that people would die if he did this...

Radical Islam must be pulled out from under the rocks which it hides.
Things like the Freud murder, the riots from the Danish cartoon and now this reveal the real evil and that is radical Islam.

Pastor guy is doing the same things the artists and writers did. Exposed radical Islam for the vicious murderous thugs they are.

We must expose the fringe elements and show the world what scum they are.
If that means drawing a cartoon or burning a book. so be it.

[Syn7]

A crazy religious nut burning a book is putting no one's life in peril Syn7.
I disagree that he put anyone's l;ife in peril.

What puts peoples life in peril is the idea that burning some material thing is a valid reason to take someones life.

It's not the pastor who did the greater harm, it is the killers and murderers who justify their actions based on this petty action.

If these provocations bring to light just how bad things really are, then I would have a tendency to agree with the pastor on his views in this regard and those murderous scum who acted on that just proved the pastors point.

regardless of what we might think of the pastor, or how we might dislike his approach and his emotional vigour, he proved a point. It's obvious that the provocateur is not the problem, rather it is the level of the deed that was provoked.

So, I sit and watch. I don't care much for people who kill over a book burning. they are the lower form here.

yeah, he got a bunch of people killed to prove a point that was proven like 1000 years ago... smooth...

im not saying it wasnt wrong to kill over this, not all... that just wasnt my reason for posting this, i dont really feel that needs further discussion,... its been done to death and is just getting tired now... yeah yeah we get it, radical muslims are nuttz... thatnx for showing us that pastor, im sure the families of the dead will call him to let him know how grateful they are that he made his point... he hasnt helped anyone, only caused more pain... for this he deserves to rot in whatever hell he believes in... in that respect, i wish god was real...


not all speech or action is covered by the first amendment...


my ideals and my sense of reality often conflict with eachother... its a fine line to walk, but im happy to go there... rest assured, nobody will die for my principles...
but i will be hypocritical at times, anyone with their eyes open and a decent head on their shoulders cant avoid that... theres a time to stick hard to your principles, a time to give a bit of slack and show some judgement and a time to roll hard to six... clearly he doesnt have the mind for these things... should people be allowed to decide when those times are? yeah, sure, as long as you arent getting somebody else hurt over your bullsh1t... its bad enough when you are in danger and bring that danger to others... but this case is so sad that jones never put himself in any real danger even though HE KNEW he was putting others at high high risk... like ive said about 50 times in this thread, HE WAS WARNED by the very people that committed these crimes against the UN workers... he can harldy stand back and act like he didnt see this comming... he KNEW it would happen... he is willing to sacrifice others for his principle... scumbag... and now he says he'll take it a step further and push this even further, even tho he saw what happened... he doesnt care, your life is worth his principle, that much is clear...



i feel the same way about bradley manning... first, i feel classifed material should be declassified after ops are completed, waiting 50 years is rediculous... taxpayers have a righht to know how their money was spent... but 50 years later, they cant hold anyone accountable... look at mcnamara, he admits the false slag attack to start the vietnam war, but did he get in trouble for that? no of course not... second, to give out classifed info on current ops should be a crime... so in that respect he is guilty and should be charged and convicted... if it was up to me i'd give him a nickle and fast track him... if you release documents that get people killed, you should be in trouble, not for leaking classified docs, but for the consequences of doing that... anyone with half a brain knows giving up classified info that is current is deadly stupid... and anyone with half a brain knows that antaghonizing nut case muslims to make a point that doesnt matter and retarded deadly stupid...

[Syn7]

Radical Islam must be pulled out from under the rocks which it hides.
Things like the Freud murder, the riots from the Danish cartoon and now this reveal the real evil and that is radical Islam.

Pastor guy is doing the same things the artists and writers did. Exposed radical Islam for the vicious murderous thugs they are.

We must expose the fringe elements and show the world what scum they are.
If that means drawing a cartoon or burning a book. so be it.

oh for sure, by all means, take it to them and show em whats up... but did we need to have a bunch of un wokers killed to know this..? no, ofcourse not... we've known the truth for 1000 years... thats not some arbitrary number i pyulled from my ass, we have known that muslim radicals are nuttz for ever... and not just muslims, but anyone who would force others to live by their standards or die...

all fundamentalist radicals are dangerous, muslim or otherwise...

[sanjuro_ronin]

oh for sure, by all means, take it to them and show em whats up... but did we need to have a bunch of un wokers killed to know this..? no, ofcourse not... we've known the truth for 1000 years... thats not some arbitrary number i pyulled from my ass, we have known that muslim radicals are nuttz for ever... and not just muslims, but anyone who would force others to live by their standards or die...

all fundamentalist radicals are dangerous, muslim or otherwise...

You wanna show up a radical fundamentalist? then don't play into his hands ( book burnings do that), but nail him to his 'cross" by showing he has perverted the actual teachings he seems to be defending and you do that publically so those of the same faith can see him for what he is.
THOSE are the people you want to reach, the followers of Islam ( in this case) that have the power to fix the problems.

[Syn7]

You wanna show up a radical fundamentalist? then don't play into his hands ( book burnings do that), but nail him to his 'cross" by showing he has perverted the actual teachings he seems to be defending and you do that publically so those of the same faith can see him for what he is.
THOSE are the people you want to reach, the followers of Islam ( in this case) that have the power to fix the problems.

word!!!!!!!!!!!



also, on a bit of another note, i would never suggest that a person should be killed for not adhering to others way of life... but i do feel a person can be removed if they would force you to live by their rule or suffer the consequences... and i dont need to see you do it either, i just need to know that you would...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Its a very thin line, we live in a society of rules and those rules ( regardless of their origins) are laws and when we choose to live in a given society with given laws then we must be subject to them.
I dislike the burning of any book and I am a huge advocate of free speech, if nothing else it lets us know who the *******s are.
At the same time, we should never let ANY demonstration that we disagree with get a "free ride" since we too have free speech and free expression.

Don't like someone burning a book, a flag, a picture of a representation of a people/person/country/ideal?
Great, protest the protesters.


Of course acts like these only serve as ammo for fundamentalists and their "persecution complexes".

[Syn7]

well i never chose to live in this society so does that mean i can ignore the rules and live by my own??? IMO yes... and i do... i dont obey any law i disagree with, EVER... it just so happens that most of the laws that really affect me i agree with... at least in a criminal respect...

its not like i have anywhere else to go, and i didnt choose to be born here... ima firm believer in creating your own life regardless of 'who' wants you to be 'what'... i do as i please and anyone who interferes with that is in for a fight... so far so good... i did time a over a decade ago, but i was guilty for the most part... so i let it happen and just went with it... after three escapes and a canadawide warrant, thatr is ;)
ima free spirit like that... i do what i want...

but if i was hurting people, i feel you would have every right to put me down as needed... whether that means death, beating, a loss of freedom or any of the other infinite ways to punish people... depennds on the scenario... as far as radical religious nuts that kill people are concerned, they gotta go... i have absolutely no mercy for them... my sense of justice is just as ruthless as thiers, but different...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Allow me an example:
A father and son were tired here and convicted of murder when they beat their daughter/sister to death for not following the cultural customs of "her people".
They were well in their rights to do so, IN THEIR HOMELAND, but not here.
They CHOOSE to live HERE and as such they must NOW abide by OUR laws, not theirs.
The judge made that VERY< VERY clear to them and to ALL their supporters.

We all choose to live in the society we live in, we are all free to leave it or live in a way the goes against it, and pay the price or find enough link-minded people and change society.
We have a choice, we ALL have a choice.

The moment we choose to live in a given society, we either accept the rules or change them or fight them and end up in jail.

[David Jamieson]

You may not know it Syn7, but you are supporting the bullies and the thugs.

You are accepting their murder and intolerance based on the vapid and banal moves of one man.

You are in essence blaming the victim for the crime.

yes, it was provocative, but did the pastor murder someone? NO.

only weak minds succumb to banal provocations.
radical islam is weak minded.

[Sihing73]

if somebody came out and said str8 up, that if i said jones should die, he will be killed, then yeah, i would be inciting that violence... but the threat isnt imminent when i say that... whereas he was warned beforehand, right or wrong, that people would die if he did this...

Curous, exactly what do you mean then when you said this before:

hopefully somebody close by does it sooner than later

Seems to me that you are splitting hairs, at least when it involves you and not someone you dislike, say Jones ;)

Jones burned a book, you stated he had forfiet his right to live, that you would not shed a tear if someone were to put one in the back of his head and that you hope someone would do it sooner rather than latter. Yet, you do not see where you would need to take any responsibility for your words. So, if that is the case for you, then why not the same for Jones.

To make it easier for you let me put it this way:

Consider yourself warned that your words of hate towards Jones could inspire someone to act out on your thoughts. This could result in the death or injury of others. Since you now have met the same criteria which you laid out concerning Jones and the burning of a book, seems like you are just the same as he. :p

[Syn7]

You may not know it Syn7, but you are supporting the bullies and the thugs.

You are accepting their murder and intolerance based on the vapid and banal moves of one man.

You are in essence blaming the victim for the crime.

yes, it was provocative, but did the pastor murder someone? NO.

only weak minds succumb to banal provocations.
radical islam is weak minded.

i never once said that the radicals werent accountable for their actions... im saying its retarded to provoke them for no reason... jones didnt make a point, he didnt achieve anything but the death of a handful of UN workers... i dont support the radicals at all... and im not minimizing their actions... but thats a separate issue... they are guilty, clearly... jones may have a legal right to do what he did, but it was still wrong... not because he burned a book, but because he knew Innocent people would die if he did... its not that diffficult... and if there was any doubt as to whether he was willing to sacrifice others for his cause, he's already planning round two... and he's unaplogetic about all of it... at the very least the guy could appologize to the families he's ruined...

why is it so hard for you people to separate the two issues? they are connected, but not the same... and i never said otherwise...

[Syn7]

Curous, exactly what do you mean then when you said this before:

hopefully somebody close by does it sooner than later

Seems to me that you are splitting hairs, at least when it involves you and not someone you dislike, say Jones ;)

Jones burned a book, you stated he had forfiet his right to live, that you would not shed a tear if someone were to put one in the back of his head and that you hope someone would do it sooner rather than latter. Yet, you do not see where you would need to take any responsibility for your words. So, if that is the case for you, then why not the same for Jones.

To make it easier for you let me put it this way:

Consider yourself warned that your words of hate towards Jones could inspire someone to act out on your thoughts. This could result in the death or injury of others. Since you now have met the same criteria which you laid out concerning Jones and the burning of a book, seems like you are just the same as he. :p

no, its not the same... jones was told beforehand that if he did it, people would die... i wasnt... thats a major difference and if you cant see that, theres nothing more i can say to you to help you understand that... there was no maybe about it, jones knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that what he was doing would get people killed... can you say the same for my posts??? surely you are capable of seeing the difference??? so no, it isnt the same thing...

if i knew he would die from me posting this, then i would be guilty of inciting violence... but as far as anything said here, its just wishful thinking... none of you have come out and said you would kill him if i posted again... whereas jones did have that knowledge beforehand... he knew it would get Innocent people killed and he did it anyways... negligence causing death at the very least...




yes, the radicals are guilty, but thats not what im adressing... personally, i found it so elementary it wasnt worth a mention...

[curenado]

Only a completely bloodless coward would obey a muslim or fear the threat of a stinking ****roach.

So many people were so inspired and renewed by that burning it made me think that we need to be doing that for people here. Everyone has been so wearied with the stupidity and ugliness of these people and demoralised that they really deserve some affirmation and better hope.

Even though we don't have them here and I am so thankful for that, I think about all the people already oppressed of them and how people try to trick and force them to put up with it.

The real truth is that at least that minister actually did something and something that MANY people had nothing against at all. I appreciate the middle of the road opinions of maturity and reason on this thread and I did consider them.

But, they are kind of like venereal disease and if your community does not have it lucky you and do every kind of vermin eradication it takes to keep it that way and don't think twice.

[Syn7]

wow... i havent met one person that has told me they were inspired by the burning... and quite frankly, i dont see whats inspiring about it??? ya got me there...

but then i dont live in a bible belt, if i did, i'd prolly meet at least a few...

but why inspiring??? how is burning a book inspiring? and what about the billion people that were disrespected in the meantime? people who dont like radical islam?

dont get me wrong, im not being any sort of appologist here... personally, i think somebody should just move in hard with extreme prejudice and eradicate these extremist radical types... yeah i said it, completely obliterate... and anyone who is with them and caught in the middle of it, well, thats just too bad... i have no sympathy for the terrorists... none whatsoever... i dont mind them attacking soldiers, but when they kill civilians that arent even involved, thats the line right there...

[sanjuro_ronin]

What this baptist minister did was a slap in the face of the direct teachings of Christ.
There is no excuse for what he did, none whatsoever.

[David Jamieson]

What this baptist minister did was a slap in the face of the direct teachings of Christ.
There is no excuse for what he did, none whatsoever.

Not sure I agree with that bro.

He burnt a book to send a message.

Jesus kicked apart a whole bunch of peoples livelihoods in the temple when he got po'd at what they were doing "in the name of" and "on the premises of"

Jesus was a radical. I don't think he had an issue with tearing down something that was incorrect at the heart of it and frankly, seeing a burning book as a cause to murder someone? Yeah, that is a corruption and it should be torn down, burnt, dusted and forever forgotten like a bad meal.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not sure I agree with that bro.

He burnt a book to send a message.

Jesus kicked apart a whole bunch of peoples livelihoods in the temple when he got po'd at what they were doing "in the name of" and "on the premises of"

Jesus was a radical. I don't think he had an issue with tearing down something that was incorrect at the heart of it and frankly, seeing a burning book as a cause to murder someone? Yeah, that is a corruption and it should be torn down, burnt, dusted and forever forgotten like a bad meal.

This minister is NOT Jesus and when Jesus laid the kaibosh on HIS people he was making a statement against the current heirachy of HIS religion.
In regards to others, Jesus's preaching was clear and precise:
Love and pray for those that hate and persecute you.
Taking the symbol of another person's faith, even one that hates you and considers you their enemy and burning it causing MORE hatred is a direct violation of Christ's command to love and pray for our enemies.

[curenado]

Well, I'm not a "goodly christian woman", there is a stem on this apple. I also live in a place where religious men do not go around trying to effiminize and neuter males or we would have a bunch of miserable men and muslims. Then everybody has to start making up things in their head they don't really believe so somebody can be happy that sure doesn't care if they or anybody else is.

Muslims have places where the penalty for invasion by a non-muslim is death. We don't have that officially, but if they do why are you trying to fool me? I don't want to debate or argue with some nice lady who wants to dedicate her life and neighborhood to impossible social work of a pestilence I would not do, but "slap in the face of christ" seems more to me what all these "radical fairies" are doing when they try to convince otherwise regular humans to "downgrade - wayyyy down" in the name of christ! - Ha! That's the insult!

Syn, I don't know your billion muslims but I know the statistics in general and as far as radical islam goes I wish these all holy pacifist muslims that keep claiming they aren't the same would eradicate their own lice but gee they can't - because....? Anyway, you saying a billion muslims in no way helps your case because all I could say is "exactly"

Inspiring means that for those few moments people could imagine freedom from even having to have that black cloud in their head or heart - It is just as valid and just as right as any other opinion on this thread and unless you are doing "free checks/free food" or bug spray for 'em, then so far this one minister has done more than you - that is great! That's what made me realize that lots of people have lived in heavily urban places so long that they are totally institutionalized. Of course they wish to believe someone that makes the threat seem ok and the smell seem like roses because they are forced prisoners and can't get away. Their argument may be a part of their coping mechanism for what they already feel they can't defeat - when people feel they can't win they commit suicide or start rapping. Same thing. (intellectually and spiritually)

Anyway it is all good because arguing it for me is a moot point.
I just thought there might be some really sad and angry people out there who could use a little sunshine amidst all this "bowing and serving" something I wouldn't keep for a servant - or eat them. (Indians will not eat certain enemies - the way the pig is to the muslim - they only cut off the head and burn the bodies) and every time I see one of these threads about "I want to be a muslims wife! You leave him alone! He's deep!" I just laugh and think it really must seem like some fantasy kingdom "far, far away" that there are still some few places left where people walk around on earth and grass with no fear or intimidation, greatful to God and so much more free and healthy than anything I have seen here.

Philosophy is false of course and only a imaginary game of theory that people take pleasure playing with in their head - it is a way of trying to consider the things that trouble a man and the feeling that one has found a high and fine place is good.
But it is just pretend after all and one thing that terrorists are not doing that too many Americans are is - pretending.

Inspired as to go out walking today on the mountain and stop at neighbors jsut to tell them about this thread and thank them and tell them how greatful I am for them that if La Raza or Radical Islam came here no one would be able to blame me because the list of suspects would be the population roll and they would not know who to arrest for having the simple sense to sanitize!
I want to pay more attention to these guys who work with the strength of horses and tell them how good it is to have and be around them where we don't have to be neutered or crazy and frantic like....that one guy who is always starting provocative thredas to say the right opinion everyone should have....like neutered commies in their sad habitrail.

You DO NOT have to believe AT ALL that Jesus wants you to lay down before the enemies of Christ and sacrifice yourself and family! That is such a fake joke and weak attempt it is more humor than insult! I mean it is not funny that religion is being used to degrade and enslave it's own people - that's pretty creepy even if it does have on a pretty dress - what's creepier? A honest man or one that goes mewling and puking and leading to a less and wretched place? One time the Jews were holed up in a cave and would not fight and they said "If we all refuse to fight there will be none of us left" and they began to resist. People rose up and helped them because they had the worth to rise up for themselves. Who knows? It could happen....

Anyway, enough of my happiness and counter-bible stories (if you call it that. Pointing out other parts of the bible besides "Let a muslim rape and cut up your women or you hate Jesus!" (Ha-ha! That's clown shoes face up!)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I appreciate that you see only TWO options and both seem to be absolutes.
Perhaps one day you will see that there are more than just those options.
Till then, here is hoping and praying that not EVERYONE sees things the same way.
Because if they did...what a bloodshed we would have.

[curenado]

I appreciate that you see only TWO options and both seem to be absolutes.
Perhaps one day you will see that there are more than just those options.
Till then, here is hoping and praying that not EVERYONE sees things the same way.
Because if they did...what a bloodshed we would have.

Oh it wouldn't last long and think of the peace and sunshine after! Sometimes we can't avoid it but that does not mean we lay down before it all we have and are (or were).

If everybody had the same opinion, we would all already be wearing waitress outfits and getting central american wages so we could be so happy to bring cheesecake to - Fugly the bottom of the human scale!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Oh it wouldn't last long and think of the peace and sunshine after!

History has shown that view to be very, very wrong.
But to each their own, I may not agree with your view, but I do believe that you are entitiled to it and will defend your right to say it :)

[David Jamieson]

This minister is NOT Jesus and when Jesus laid the kaibosh on HIS people he was making a statement against the current heirachy of HIS religion.
In regards to others, Jesus's preaching was clear and precise:
Love and pray for those that hate and persecute you.
Taking the symbol of another person's faith, even one that hates you and considers you their enemy and burning it causing MORE hatred is a direct violation of Christ's command to love and pray for our enemies.

Not sure if he caused hatred or simply revealed it.

I'm not down with the inflammatory bent, but in my opinion, we are actually talking about 2 wrongs here.

The pastor, burnt a book. mildly wrong, provocative, but if I burnt a bible today, no one would know or care.

Radical Muslims upon being informed of such, went out and took the lives of living breathing people. they did not eye for an eye by burning the pastors book, they acted criminally and that is the element that must be recognized and thrown out the door of Islam.

Same/Same for Christian radicals, Jewish ones, Buddhist ones, political ones. We, as a species do not need these kinds of ideologies to be carelessly thrown about.

so, what about the media that gives this man a voice? are they not also culpable in this provocation? In fact, are they not THE culpable party here.

The pastor can burn all the books he likes, but if no one gives him a soap box from which to do it, then who cares right?

As an aside, Jesus was rectifying an error in the religious practice at his temple.
Not necessarily entirely his people actually. Many moneychangers were not jews at all. He was addressing a problem in a violent way. This story is huge with me on a lot of levels as it defines Jesus in his humanity.

Poke a monk with a stick enough and he will get pizzed. :)

[curenado]

<<Same/Same for Christian radicals, Jewish ones, Buddhist ones, political ones. We, as a species do not need these kinds of ideologies to be carelessly thrown about.>>

The thing I am not sure about is that would be contradictory to thousands of years of repeating cycles of history and behavior. The only thing that changes is the colors, not the dynamic.

I see people that are intellectually serious struggling with our times and that to me is much different than people just imagining how it should be without consideration - it is just that these things happen and have always happened and the serious folks here might have been in temples in earlier times but the dynamic will roll out the same. Not that it will THIS time, because people know what they are doing and are in control (hee)

But it seems to me that we run on these cycles pretty consistently and though I was more candid before about the rads and etc I really think that people maintain and develop cultures and their race by having their own places to live. That's exactly how.
Now, if you will indeed serve everyone, people are told a theory of a thing that has been done before and we have lasted at least as long as they did? One of the shortest peoples in human history - the empty headed Athenians. (A ancient democracy)

So if you want a more ideal answer to a more peaceful earth then first give everybody back their people and blood and let them separate into their cities like they naturally will because it makes them happy and let them decide on cities of commerce and mingling too because that also makes them happy and from that rise culture and identity - not universal and enforced multi-kulti. It offends them and it offends us but people insist that if everybody just believes it won't and

People have never done that. We actually do seem to think we need ideologies - not thrown about or tread over and even if you think we do not need ideologies - the dynamic remains the same.

If you take "there is a time to every purpose" as a little deeper than poetry, yeah I know "Boo!" - but considering the real and manifest dynamic as we go along and as it has been may be clearer tan trying to blame it on or sort it out by religion or secularism - it can't be sorted out or arrested. The longer plates in the earth are pressed together the greater the pressure and the greater the earthquake. People seem pretty much the same and logic, religion and even military power can only hold their own so long.

Seems like.

[Syn7]

how many of you heard about his book burning planned around sept 11??? how many of yall did NOT know that people would die if he did this???

i knew... if you were on top of the story then you knew too... the pastor knew too... so i dont see how he revealed anything new???

[curenado]

I didn't know about it - but if I had I would have checked it out and had a laugh

I did not know people would be killed - were they the same as him or th same as their killers? Because in the US if it is race-on-race we pretty much don't care and "power to ya every day!" - they only put stuff on the news that is inflammatory. But point is if the killers killed their own people in their own country it is not the preacher's fault it is the exact carbon copy of the message he sent and why. I mean if we could burn more of those books then it would make a fire big enough to throw the killers on too and that wouold be double hoo-ray -

As far as you knowing and me not I guess then at least you were on top of the sit and could express your feelings on a internet board and that's about it I guess. I did not feel any obligation to be "on top" of something like that but now I kind of do. I will try to watch better but "news of the world" P-U sucky - it's like getting sick through the eye.

I have often wondered if people in the urban places did not listen to or obey the news they would be cut off from propaganda and programming. Without that they would still work and live but they would look for news locally and their lives would be more relevant because they would be just as guided and propagandized by, of and for their own neighborhood.
A social experiment I just wondered about but can't fund....thought of it because I had the thought that city people's programming prevents them in their own place by bombarding them with other places and simple diversion stuff.

[Drake]

Crazy people are HOT.