Application of Tok-Sau from Wooden Dummy Form

[wingtsun85]

Hello guys! I have a question regarding a movement from the 116 wooden dummy form. A lot of the wooden dummy movements are self-explanatory, however there is one movement in there that I have no idea what the application would be. It's the "tok-sau", where you slap and lift up the left and right upper arms with your palms from below the arms. If you look at the video below, you'll see it at 0:09, 0:18, 0:24, 0:48, and 0:59.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqL9MdLj0k

Thanks!!

[ntc]

In the dummy set, it is used mainly to help develop the proper delivery of the technique coupled with the correct distance/body structure from your opponent. The application of Tok Sau is actually addressed in the first part of the Chum Kiu form, and as part of the Jeep Sau technique used to lock your opponent's elbow.

[Vajramusti]

Hi NTC- good to see you posting again.

joy

[ntc]

Hi Joy... how are you doing? Its been awhile... hope all is well with you and your family.

[wingtsun85]

In the dummy set, it is used mainly to help develop the proper delivery of the technique coupled with the correct distance/body structure from your opponent. The application of Tok Sau is actually addressed in the first part of the Chum Kiu form, and as part of the Jeep Sau technique used to lock your opponent's elbow.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for your reply, and I know there are probably many ways to apply each technique. Your signature has a lot of truth to it. There is a point you get to where you feel like a beginner, even after years of study.

[Phil Redmond]

Hello guys! I have a question regarding a movement from the 116 wooden dummy form. A lot of the wooden dummy movements are self-explanatory, however there is one movement in there that I have no idea what the application would be. It's the "tok-sau", where you slap and lift up the left and right upper arms with your palms from below the arms. If you look at the video below, you'll see it at 0:09, 0:18, 0:24, 0:48, and 0:59.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqL9MdLj0k

Thanks!!
It's against a two arm grab/lunge attempt.

[AdrianK]

In TWC I learned the application of Tok Sao from a two handed grab or lunge.

I never gave Tok Sao much thought or credit after that, until I used it against a BJJ guy I rolled with a couple months back. He grabbed the back of my head and went for my leg and I tok sao'd his elbow upward.

In this case, it threw him off balance and into the wall, I used it twice in this way. After that I started doing some more BJJ/wrestling and using that to open them up. You get pretty solid control from pushing up underneath at the elbow.

I think its a pretty effective application of tok sao.

[YouKnowWho]

you slap and lift up the left and right upper arms with your palms from below the arms.

Here is one application for that. You "guide" your opponent's arms into a temporary position so it won't give you any trouble when you enter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvPXIfh9wzE

[LoneTiger108]

A good subject for some, bad for others (who just don't practise Toksau at all)

Something I too feel is a specific 'signature' of Wing Chun, especially used on the Wooden Man for entering and exiting, like I show in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBv5oE5VNHg

[Graham H]

The application of Tok Sau is actually addressed in the first part of the Chum Kiu form, and as part of the Jeep Sau technique used to lock your opponent's elbow.

Tok Sau????......Jeep Sau???? :D........lock your opponents elbow????:D......more misinterpreted WCK applications tut tut!! :rolleyes:

GH

[m1k3]

In TWC I learned the application of Tok Sao from a two handed grab or lunge.

I never gave Tok Sao much thought or credit after that, until I used it against a BJJ guy I rolled with a couple months back. He grabbed the back of my head and went for my leg and I tok sao'd his elbow upward.

In this case, it threw him off balance and into the wall, I used it twice in this way. After that I started doing some more BJJ/wrestling and using that to open them up. You get pretty solid control from pushing up underneath at the elbow.

I think its a pretty effective application of tok sao.

Pushing up under the elbow is a pretty common grappling move and often used to clear the path for a clinch/throw/shot. I don't really see it as a control move unless you are using it to set up some sort of a 2 on 1.

[AdrianK]

Pushing up under the elbow is a pretty common grappling move and often used to clear the path for a clinch/throw/shot. I don't really see it as a control move unless you are using it to set up some sort of a 2 on 1.

I didn't mean as a control move like a grab, pin or lock, by control I meant its fairly easy to utilize it to clear that path.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Graham H;1088100]Tok Sau????......Jeep Sau???? :D........lock your opponents elbow????:D......more misinterpreted WCK applications tut tut!! :rolleyes:
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Tut tut and roll eyes is patronizing.

The tyranny of words.Locking is part of several possible flows and sequences of defense/attack. I don't think that you understood NTC's intent.
Tok sao has lots of applications but tut tut and rolling eyes does not further the discussion.

joy chaudhuri

[YouKnowWho]

lock your opponents elbow????:D......more misinterpreted WCK applications tut tut!! :rolleyes:

Here is an example (from 2.45 - 2.50).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaLvcM-u4ns

[YouKnowWho]

you'll see it at 0:09, 0:18, 0:24, 0:48, and 0:59.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqL9MdLj0k

In Taiji, this move is called "掳臂捧(Lu Bi Peng) - control arm lift" or "進步七星(Jin Bu Qi Xing) - step forward to 7 star".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PL0FYMO5w4

[wingtsun85]

In Taiji, this move is called "掳臂捧(Lu Bi Peng) - control arm lift" or "進步七星(Jin Bu Qi Xing) - step forward to 7 star".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PL0FYMO5w4

Even just knowing that this movement is also called "control lift arm" helps to know the application. Thanks!

[Hendrik]

Even just knowing that this movement is also called "control lift arm" helps to know the application. Thanks!


For me, it is great to see the difference here. For your infor here.

These are actually different technics

What Gm Ip does is 托 Tok or to support What Gm Chang Dong Shen does is 捧 Peng or to offer.

according to the ancient TCMA Tok point/technic always comes with another point/technic. meaning once Tok is execute another technic has to follow. however, in the clip, only Tok is execute. Tok is support, so it is like once one tok, one support the momentum of the opponent, at that instance, another technic is needed to deal with the supported momentum since one is in control now.


So, details details details...... TCMA is tooooooo many details..... haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa