GZ Wingchun 12 movements set

[CYMac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlD7oFeI2Ro&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Gwong Zhau Wingchun 12 movements set put together in a form

[GlennR]

I love the "Celestial" Masters choice of music ;)

[CYMac]

I love the "Celestial" Masters choice of music ;)

Thanks! The "Celestial Master" is only a pose in the Taoism system, "Tin Si", not to be too harsh on that~ it's kungfu what I present here only, haha! cheers! Love that upbeat vibe too~

[LoneTiger108]

Gwong Zhau Wingchun 12 movements set put together in a form

When you say this do you mean you put this set together or you was taught this by your Sifu? Also, is the term Gwong Zhau a place or a person? (I presume it's the place)

An interesting set, similar to what others refer to as Kulo Sup Yee Sik :)

[CFT]

Guangzhou Wing Chun is another name for Sum Nung's branch of Wing Chun.

An article on SN's Sup Yee San Sik on Rene's site: http://www.wingchunkuen.com/sumnung/articles/article_ritchie02_twelveforms.html

[CYMac]

Yes, Gwong Zhau Wingchun is same as Sum Nung Wingchun. Just a name. This set is supposed to be 12 separated techniques and I just chained it up in a set to show on video without pausing. Makes it more easy to keep track of things.

[k gledhill]

The off body side punch sequence looks like a pole striking drill....seems like a 'kata' ? ie bong> lop> backfist...
BTW there is a cute woman who plays this music in the subways in NYC.

[CYMac]

The off body side punch sequence looks like a pole striking drill....seems like a 'kata' ? ie bong> lop> backfist...
BTW there is a cute woman who plays this music in the subways in NYC.

I think what you are referring to is the "Duk Lung Chui" (Single Dragon Fist), it's a punching method in GZ Wingchun. There are actually four main punches in the system. The three stars punch (straight), Side punch (turning stance and punch the center), The single dragon punch (what you said), The arrow punch (the single dragon punch plus shift stance to sideway and move up).

I used to do 3000 punches a day before when I was drilling with GZ Wingchum, the wooden floor got 2 circular marks after a week, haha!

[k gledhill]

cool, train hard.

[CYMac]

cool, train hard.

Thanks, but now I am abit moe into the Tai Chi vibe instead. GZ Wingchun's system still got some flaws which you can see it with all the GZ Wingchun masters and that is the structure of the movements. It will generate a lower back pain for all practitioners. I have saw MANY GZ Wingchun masters with the same pain already and it's because the way they do the training..

I later on fixed up the problem by correcting the posture abit and so it won't give me the awful pain. I have got a student of mine who learned from a GZ Wingchun sifu for 3 years and he told me the whole class go the same pain if they learn for more than 1 month.. people think it's NORMAL because they don't see it's from the training.. but it is. I got it too, before, but now fixed.

[k gledhill]

the hips need a posterior 'tilt' aka clench your buttocks forwards, this action straightens the lower lumbar vert.. I didnt want to go into details but...the pivoting is on toes , leading to less power generation and moving away from your 'face' . IOW you turn to face but you also move back a few inches on toes ...the elbows seem to be out and the punches are all 'on' the centerline, rather than sweeping it. Whats the thinking of the elbows and centerline ?

[LoneTiger108]

Yes, Gwong Zhau Wingchun is same as Sum Nung Wingchun. Just a name. This set is supposed to be 12 separated techniques and I just chained it up in a set to show on video without pausing. Makes it more easy to keep track of things.

Thanks for the info :)

Seems to be a push of Sum Nung lately, which is cool, but I do hope future generations refrain from identifying their Wing Chun with an 'area' especially in the mainland. I have the same concerns for Kulo Wing Chun, as it's actually Fung Family Wing Chun, which has since spread far from Kulo village ;)

Sorry to hear of your back problems but I'm sure your Taichi will help ease the condition. Any branch of Wing Chun that seems to concentrate on sansau or loose hand methods will have major weaknesses imho. Many strengths too but they will be missing the later developments and the more traditional approach to training the whole body.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but form practise is not considered important to the Fungs? Everything is in sets, or yaudim (important points) right? More of a Karate one-two step approach to your Wing Chun, that will work for some but not for others...

[LoneTiger108]

Guangzhou Wing Chun is another name for Sum Nung's branch of Wing Chun.

An article on SN's Sup Yee San Sik on Rene's site: http://www.wingchunkuen.com/sumnung/articles/article_ritchie02_twelveforms.html

Thanks for the Link Chee. Begs the question, where is Rene when we need him eh??

[CYMac]

Thanks for the info :)

Seems to be a push of Sum Nung lately, which is cool, but I do hope future generations refrain from identifying their Wing Chun with an 'area' especially in the mainland. I have the same concerns for Kulo Wing Chun, as it's actually Fung Family Wing Chun, which has since spread far from Kulo village ;)

Sorry to hear of your back problems but I'm sure your Taichi will help ease the condition. Any branch of Wing Chun that seems to concentrate on sansau or loose hand methods will have major weaknesses imho. Many strengths too but they will be missing the later developments and the more traditional approach to training the whole body.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but form practise is not considered important to the Fungs? Everything is in sets, or yaudim (important points) right? More of a Karate one-two step approach to your Wing Chun, that will work for some but not for others...

My back problem actually got cured now, after one year practicing my own lineage's form. So that's good to know. The wingchun really got some problem. Even Ip Man style does have the back pain problem too, especially Jiu Wan branch. I know people from that branch and they have seriously got some pain in the body with the practice..

Yes, Fung Siu Ching lineage is more to the san sik and it's mainly all san sik. You are right. But it doesn't harm for you to chain it up for memorizing or reviewing the moves.

[CYMac]

the hips need a posterior 'tilt' aka clench your buttocks forwards, this action straightens the lower lumbar vert.. I didnt want to go into details but...the pivoting is on toes , leading to less power generation and moving away from your 'face' . IOW you turn to face but you also move back a few inches on toes ...the elbows seem to be out and the punches are all 'on' the centerline, rather than sweeping it. Whats the thinking of the elbows and centerline ?

I have no idea how to talk about this with you by text.. haha! maybe make a movie and we can chat. It's really hard for me to imagine what you are talking about too.. sorry, just too confused.

[Vajramusti]

My back problem actually got cured now, after one year practicing my own lineage's form. So that's good to know. The wingchun really got some problem. Even Ip Man style does have the back pain problem too, especially Jiu Wan branch. I know people from that branch and they have seriously got some pain in the body with the practice..

Yes, Fung Siu Ching lineage is more to the san sik and it's mainly all san sik. You are right. But it doesn't harm for you to chain it up for memorizing or reviewing the moves.
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No back pains and other pains that I know off in our part of the Ip Man lineage. But close attention to the details of structure in development by serious students can avoid those things IMO.

joy chaudhuri

[CYMac]

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No back pains and other pains that I know off in our part of the Ip Man lineage. But close attention to the details of structure in development by serious students can avoid those things IMO.

joy chaudhuri

Good for you! Your teacher is good then! Keep it up!

[taai gihk yahn]

My back problem actually got cured now, after one year practicing my own lineage's form.

don't be so modest! share with everyone how you "got better"; I mean, it's all right here on your website:

"In 2009, because the kungfu Mak Jo Si learned from the past with all these horrible masters, he got serious injuries all over the body. With his right leg temporary disabled and all kinds of pain and aches around the body and joints, he was not able to do any kungfu at all. He have to stop and terminate his kungfu teaching. That must be the end of his life of kungfu!

No, not at all! During the fall of 2009, Mak Jo Si gained the ability of communicating with the deities and Taoverse Deity take care of him. Taoverse Deity taught him kungfu directly and actually helped him recover from the injuries in the past in a few months!"
http://www.chiinnature.com/kungfu_master_bio.html

isn't being forthright refreshing?

[CYMac]

don't be so modest! share with everyone how you "got better"; I mean, it's all right here on your website:

"In 2009, because the kungfu Mak Jo Si learned from the past with all these horrible masters, he got serious injuries all over the body. With his right leg temporary disabled and all kinds of pain and aches around the body and joints, he was not able to do any kungfu at all. He have to stop and terminate his kungfu teaching. That must be the end of his life of kungfu!

No, not at all! During the fall of 2009, Mak Jo Si gained the ability of communicating with the deities and Taoverse Deity take care of him. Taoverse Deity taught him kungfu directly and actually helped him recover from the injuries in the past in a few months!"
http://www.chiinnature.com/kungfu_master_bio.html

isn't being forthright refreshing?

Get lost, don't play with stupid games. I ain't here for these. Talk kungfu or show your kungfu as a true kungfuman, if you aren't then too bad.

[LoneTiger108]

The wingchun really got some problem. Even Ip Man style does have the back pain problem too, especially Jiu Wan branch. I know people from that branch and they have seriously got some pain in the body with the practice..

Really? Maybe there's just something wrong with Wing Chun (Yong Chun) in China! ;) :D

Seriously, I think most 'Martial Artists' have had back problems, especially those that learn the larger pole and weaponry methods like Jiu Wans students. But it is the student who recognises changes in their bodies and a good teacher should listen and advise accordingly. It's also key to understand that all interactive training, like chisau, is connected to the spine so accidents can, and do, happen.

Personally, I've seen more heart problems than back problems in Wing Chun :(


Yes, Fung Siu Ching lineage is more to the san sik and it's mainly all san sik. You are right. But it doesn't harm for you to chain it up for memorizing or reviewing the moves.

:D But it kills your back right!?

Out of interest, did you film the clip before or after your back problem, and have you adjusted certain structures to compensate??

[CYMac]

Really? Maybe there's just something wrong with Wing Chun (Yong Chun) in China! ;) :D

Seriously, I think most 'Martial Artists' have had back problems, especially those that learn the larger pole and weaponry methods like Jiu Wans students. But it is the student who recognises changes in their bodies and a good teacher should listen and advise accordingly. It's also key to understand that all interactive training, like chisau, is connected to the spine so accidents can, and do, happen.

Personally, I've seen more heart problems than back problems in Wing Chun :(



:D But it kills your back right!?

Out of interest, did you film the clip before or after your back problem, and have you adjusted certain structures to compensate??


I filmed the clip AFTER I have the back problem and now I am recovered from it after one year of rest, treatment and doing my own lineage's exercise and forms. Therefore my video show me doing forms with "injuries" :( sad.... but I film my video for myself to reference back only, it was meant to just for myself but somebody told me that I should post them online and so I did so....

[LoneTiger108]

... but I film my video for myself to reference back only, it was meant to just for myself but somebody told me that I should post them online and so I did so....

Well, respect to you for sharing. :)

Something a few can learn from on here I think.

I've actually started a project from my home too, to share and exchange training ideas and tips online. This really only happend because I got tired of writing on forums and facebook ;)

[chusauli]

Hunched back lead to poor posture, which leads to back pain.

Pivoting on toes is mistaken way of pivot on whole foot, using Kidney 1 asa reference point.

Striking from shoulders is always weaker than using the whole body.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1090171]
Seriously, I think most 'Martial Artists' have had back problems, especially those that learn the larger pole and weaponry methods like Jiu Wans students. But it is the student who recognises changes in their bodies and a good teacher should listen and advise accordingly. It's also key to understand that all interactive training, like chisau, is connected to the spine so accidents can, and do, happen.

Personally, I've seen more heart problems than back problems in Wing Chun :(
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Wing Chun when done properly IMO involves quite natural motions. Doing motions incorrectly
can result in pains and injuries. Of course so can actual fighting or vigorous uncontrolled sparring.
Doing taichi badly can result in knee problems.Wrong bong saos can lead to shoulder problems.
Wrong punching can lead to elbow tendonitis. Very narrow knee stances can lead to knee problems.Incorrect spinal alignments can cause back problems. When wing chun or taichi are well taught-it can strengthen the joints rather than injure them.

Good teaching. learning and practice are keys to avoiding injuries.

Anecdotally: I have been doing wing chun regularly since 1976 without any wing chun related injuries. A major incident- a dog fight involving multiple dogs including my 3 Arctic guys- a malamute and two samoyeds who were attacked was the source of one knee problem. Trauma from a fall on concrete, and my stupidity in continued daily long walks with the sled pulling type of dogs without taking a break or tending to inflammation led to the problem knee -which was helped some by not doing the same stupid things and avoiding wrong repetitions in motion.

Greater danger in the US to health are likely from automobiles. More dangers from pollution in parts of China, obesity in the US. Some old time sifus smoked a lot thanks to successful peddling by the tobacco industry. Some drank too much.

Not a simple causal link between wing chun and health problems IMO, FWIW.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

Not a simple causal link between wing chun and health problems IMO, FWIW.

Agreed 100% :)

[wingchunIan]

Hunched back lead to poor posture, which leads to back pain.

Pivoting on toes is mistaken way of pivot on whole foot, using Kidney 1 asa reference point.

Striking from shoulders is always weaker than using the whole body.


Slightly off topic but in the lineage I study we pivot further back than Kd1 more Liv4 or Sp5 (if you're not into TCM I'd describe it as directly below the ankle bone), funny how even the things that are sacred in one lineage can be so different in another. As for lower back pain, I often get students complaining of lower back pain during the first few weeks of training, it is almost always caused by not tilting the cocyx under as was previously posted.

[bennyvt]

totally agree with robert. bad posture, makes for some bad injuries.
did I read that gods (forget other spelling) healed this dude. Ok maybe he would be helped by a bit of away time in his local mental hospital.
MAn VT gets some freaks.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Hendrik]

For me,

The way to solve the proper body alignment, power generation, and structure is to learn the traditional TCMA's 20Ch + 6DFV to solve the issues holistically in body static and dynamically.

20Ch + 6DFV is the root of the holistic practice.

[anerlich]

I've seen little evidence of WC practice having any direct effect on physical health or joints either way, other than the usual advantages of regular exercise.

Plenty of sparring injuries, but nothing like as frequent as in rugby, let alone motorcycle racing.

I had a lot of back pain in my twenties and thirties. WC had no effect either way. While I guess I could have involved Taoist dieties, I got good results from the more prosaic route of three months of physiotherapy. Have been totally fine ever since (I'm 56 now).

If you have a problem, forget prayer, get off your a$$ and solve it!

[anerlich]

Wow. This forum is awesome :o