Good Training Clip

[Sean66]

Here's a nice clip of my buddy Kai teaching in his school (his cellar, hence the bad lighting).

I really like the way he trains. Puts the student under pressure, but also lets him "in" to practice attack/counter-attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqL93NlUGG8

[LoneTiger108]

Another typical interaction from the WSL family? Good, but 'typical'. Very basic Looksau and Sansau training with Lapsau thrown in.

I agree that this type of training is good for new students, but very little Chisau in there from what I could see (which again is a trait of WSL guys imho!)

Again, good solid training for beginners ;) Problem is you have to progress! Simon Lau was doing very similar stuff here in the UK in the late 70's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50N6FqOVyzM&feature=related

[bennyvt]

while i like the clips it dont think its good for the lesser guys training to stop after the first attack gets though. far enough if he was actually contacting as it would give a slight hesitation but he seems to stop as soon as any punch gets through letting several instead of coming back and attacking himself.
Some reallt nice pak sao and punches. nicley slipped. looked mad.:)
ok lone tiger show us your "advanced" trainning then we will can decide. It looked like two guys training. Each letting they other practice attacking once the other gained a good position. While each was learning Im guessing that you wanted two guys killing each other.
Bring on your videos.:cool:

[Sean66]

@LoneTiger,
I watched the clip you posted, and I don't see any similarities other than training "intensity" perhaps. Totally different in IMHO.

Let's remember that this is a student training to learn how to deal with pressure from his teacher and limit his mistakes.
Going beyond would mean sparring at various intensities, and sparring against people who don't do wing chun - both being indispensable to the development of the student.

[SavvySavage]

I'm with lonetiger on this. Wing chun people have been doing this kind of training for years and now it's the only videos we ever get to see. This kind of training is so basic. If they put gloves on with headgear, and started at a distance, I bet the smaller guy would look a lot better. Chi sao, or any drills where the arms are connected, allows for safety of the people doing them. It's safe because you're only dealing with a few kinds of attacks and once you understand that you can take advantage of people who haven't learned how to deal with the same kind of attacks. Add kicks in and it won't look like this clip at all.

Have someone who does wrestling do this same drill with the teacher and it won't go that way at all.

This kind of training is good in the beginning but hinders wing chun people in the long run. Then you see wc guys trying to do the pak/jab at someone from the long range.

[SavvySavage]

Your seeing what Spencer is seeing..

I've been doing drills like this for years in wc and this is what I noticed before I switched up the way I train. As soon as sparring happened I realized that punches come from all angles and not just straight like in chi sao. This may be "common sense" but training wc chi sao doesn't train your muscle memory to deal with attacks outside of the chi sao paradigm.

[Sean66]

Hey,
Aw, come on guys, I didn't want to turn this into another "my **** is better than your ****" thread!

LoneTiger complemented the clip and stated that you have to progress. And I agree with that. And so do the guys in the clip.

Shown in the clip is just one aspect of the training "progression".
Sparring and sparring against people who don't do wing chun is another aspect. So Savvy's got a good point, too.

What I respectfully don't agree with is that chi sao doesn't give you the tools to deal with attacks from "outside the chi sao paradigm".

Chi sao should not only train and develop the delivery system, so to speak, for wing chun's weapons, but should also train things like; balance, feeling for distance, efficiency of movement, as well as strategic concepts. Things that are necessary no matter who you are squaring off with.

The tools are there, you just have to train them intelligently.

[LoneTiger108]

LoneTiger complemented the clip and stated that you have to progress. And I agree with that. And so do the guys in the clip.

Its nice to see that someone here didn't misinterpret what I was saying. Not only do I think that this drill is a great exercise, I also think that moving images says more than any written word on this forum sometimes! And that is why I respect anyone who shares footage like you have here. :)


... What I respectfully don't agree with is that chi sao doesn't give you the tools to deal with attacks from "outside the chi sao paradigm".

And I agree here too. Although, me being me, I will replace 'chisau' with 'interactive training'! ;) For me, Chisau is a manipulation tool. It's there to help us teach and also to help us understand how to shut down an offensive or incorrect method 'instantly' upon contact.

Fighting from outside the chisau paradigm is called Gorsau from my limited memory, and not many Wing Chun clubs do this often unless they're into sparring or competition. Not my cup of tea, but something I can coach through various interactive programs. For the right person :D

[Buddha_Fist]

Nice training clip. I can see a lot of Michael in Kai's way of moving.