Do Kung Fu guys spend too much time trying to look like Kung Fu guys?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

In a nutshell, do you feel most CMA practioners worry too much about so called chinese flavor and making their fighting resemble Kung Fu techniques found in forms or other areas as apposed to what many fights or sparring matches end up looking like (glorified kickboxing, of course:D).

In all seriousness I respect very much those that break down techniques from forms, basics, and two man training and apply or at least attempt to apply to a sparring or full contact match. But do you feel it is more beneficial from a fighting aspect to learn simpler basic tecniques that are easier to use? Thoughts?

[David Jamieson]

just have a look at their facebook profiles. :)

[Iron_Eagle_76]

just have a look at their facebook profiles. :)

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll77/keltoibard/Forum%20Tools/homer-simpson-doh.jpg

[TenTigers]

If you're going to lose all the structure, methodology and technique of Kung-Fu and end up with basic kickboxing, then why bother doing Kung-Fu at all?
Just do kickboxing and be done with it.
After all, that is what you're doing anyway.
You're just wearing the t-shirt.
Some people maintain the mindsets..but it's still kickboxing.
Some people "flavor" their kickboxing..well, it's an attempt...

makes me ponder; if you aknowledge that your system contains jabs, cross, uppercut, hook, overhand, frontkick, roundhouse, knees and elbows, and in addition add key signatures of your style, are you doing Chinese-flavored kickboxing?

or, if you simply omit the signature techniques and elements, the "flavoring," are you doing Kung-Fu?
Or, if you add them into your system just so you can compete with the kickboxers, then what?

[SPJ]

fights are like random event or chaotic

opportunities come and go.

--

prefered techniques or tactics and strategy

--

fight like what you train

train like what you fight

etc etc

1. entering

2. engaging

3. finishing

back to 1 or 2

or repeat 1 or 2

till you end with 3.

---

[hskwarrior]

IF all you're doing is entering the fighting arena then the simpler the better. but, there are still alot of people out there who don't want to learn to fight or defend themselves. they're interested in learning the art only. be a part of a group, and this group just happens to teach traditional martial arts. many people love to learn the exotic weaponry but will most likely never get to use a Kwan Do in the streets.

if you're doing forms, then sure look like a gung fu guy. its just a form of expression. but if you're gonna fight realistically, some should realize that combative stuff is not a pretty or as fluffy as what you see in forms.

but then, within a group you will find those who are looking to fight so you teach them differently than the non fighters.

So don't go acting like a Kung Fool!

[SPJ]

some believe that you have some repertoise of preferred techniques and change the combination among them randomly

but what if they are all countered

--

some believe that you may repeat the same techniques over and over

till you nail the opponent

--

:)

[SPJ]

if you see someone repeating chuan zhang and steps over and over as entering

yes it is a yin style ba gua player

--

if you see someone repeating beng quan left and right over and over as entering, engaging and finishing

--

yes it is a xing yi player

--

they do not intend to look like kung fu player

they are kung fu players and it shows.

--

if the rules of the ring change things,

they may modify things somewhat, but the true colors still show in stepping, posturing, tactics and strategy--

---

:)

[hskwarrior]

some believe that you have some repertoise of preferred techniques and change the combination among them randomly

but what if they are all countered

Preferred strikes in gung fu are no different than preferred strikes of any discipline.

What if they were all countered? what if we countered their counter? then if they counter us we counter them they counter us we counter them they counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter them..................

OMFG IT WILL NEVER END!!! :eek:

[SPJ]

Preferred strikes in gung fu are no different than preferred strikes of any discipline.

What if they were all countered? what if we countered their counter? then if they counter us we counter them they counter us we counter them they counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter themthey counter us we counter them..................

OMFG IT WILL NEVER END!!! :eek:

yes, it is the engaging/disengaging phase.

timing, space and random opening will determine who gets upperhand.

if both are good, they will be doing exactly what you just described.

till one is tired or outmaneuvered

--

:cool:

[David Jamieson]

If it wasn't for facebook I wouldn't have had any idea about the amount of transvestite pirate heavy metal emo kids that post here...

[SPJ]

I used to have to have email and cc so many people

now with facebook

I may just post or announce event, all my friends or organisations will be notified

--

with some many spam e mails, important emails will be lost fast.

--

facebook saves the day.

:cool:

[Iron_Eagle_76]

If you're going to lose all the structure, methodology and technique of Kung-Fu and end up with basic kickboxing, then why bother doing Kung-Fu at all?
Just do kickboxing and be done with it.
After all, that is what you're doing anyway.
You're just wearing the t-shirt.
Some people maintain the mindsets..but it's still kickboxing.
Some people "flavor" their kickboxing..well, it's an attempt...

makes me ponder; if you aknowledge that your system contains jabs, cross, uppercut, hook, overhand, frontkick, roundhouse, knees and elbows, and in addition add key signatures of your style, are you doing Chinese-flavored kickboxing?

or, if you simply omit the signature techniques and elements, the "flavoring," are you doing Kung-Fu?
Or, if you add them into your system just so you can compete with the kickboxers, then what?


This is the "pondering" I was talking about. People like to say that when Kung Fu players fight, they end up looking like kickboxers. Techniques should be simple to perform, fast, and cause damage. If they don't, what's the point? Jab, Cross, Hook is a great combination, but what about throwing in a Dragon's head instead of a hook, how about instead of using a front thrust or teep, you use an iron broom.

My point of view is this, Kung Fu in and of itself is more a philosophy or intangible than anything. Sure you have your systems and they have their flavor, but what two individuals have you ever seen use the same techniques, in the same manner, in the exact same way? You never have, and you never will.

[Lucas]

i spend all my time trying to look mma. i got the shirt, shorts, hats, and stickers that say im elite and all the skulls back it up.

[TenTigers]

If it wasn't for facebook I wouldn't have had any idea about the amount of transvestite pirate heavy metal emo kids that post here...
that's just one picture...and the Les Paul justifies everything.
and it's not emo, it's glamrock.

[GeneChing]

It hasn't worked. I've given up. Now I'm just trying not to look like a kung fu villain. Kung fu villains always spit blood and die at the end of the movie. I'm trying to avoid that fate. :o

[JamesC]

It hasn't worked. I've given up. Now I'm just trying not to look like a kung fu villain. Kung fu villains always spit blood and die at the end of the movie. I'm trying to avoid that fate. :o

LMAO

Gene, you can't escape your destiny! You're definitely going to look like Pai Mei when you get older. :D

[GeneChing]

How the heck to you grow your eyebrows anyway? Rub black sesame and pine tar in them? Actually, right now, I'd just be happy controlling my receding hairline... :o

[TenTigers]

It hasn't worked. I've given up. Now I'm just trying not to look like a kung fu villain. Kung fu villains always spit blood and die at the end of the movie. I'm trying to avoid that fate. :o
you need that, "HA, HA, HA!" laugh they always use.
Everytime I learn a new phrase in Cantonese, I add, "HA,HA,HA,HA, HA! Wong-Sifu!"at the end.
(you know, like that evil magistrate who tries to instigate Wong Fei-Hung into a fight, but attempts to make it seem innocent)

[SPJ]

if you are a throwler or shuai jiao guy, you would throw the opponent asap

if you are a striker, you would KO the opponent asap

---

how you do it

they may look the same, or not.

--

[Iron_Eagle_76]

i spend all my time trying to look mma. i got the shirt, shorts, hats, and stickers that say im elite and all the skulls back it up.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/_friendsx3x3/ethug2.jpg

[GeneChing]

you need that, "HA, HA, HA!" laugh they always use.
And no worries. Got that covered. :cool:

[Lucas]

alright iron eagle man, you need to respect my mma gear man i spent too much cash on that stuff to not be intimidating to kungfu guys :mad:

fear my takedown kungfu biches!

[David Jamieson]

that's just one picture...and the Les Paul justifies everything.
and it's not emo, it's glamrock.

lol, I know the pic you're talking about!

too awesome... and all the more to the point really ...:p

~G you will never escape your fate man. Because you are Chinese, just for that alone, it's assumed that you got the fu. And hey...you are the AP of one of the most pop KF mags there is.

Wait...I think you're putting us on! :p

[Iron_Eagle_76]

alright iron eagle man, you need to respect my mma gear man i spent too much cash on that stuff to not be intimidating to kungfu guys :mad:

fear my takedown kungfu biches!

F**ck the MMA gear, these bad boys here are all you need!!

http://greatbignerd.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/cn_action.jpg

[Lucas]

But i have flames and skulls.....and it says im ELITE!

[Jimbo]

How the heck to you grow your eyebrows anyway? Rub black sesame and pine tar in them? Actually, right now, I'd just be happy controlling my receding hairline... :o

lol, You're lucky, Gene. I've got the classic thick eyebrows that many of the darker/hairier Japanese men have, and have to trim 'em regularly. If I let them go and stop shaving my beard, which grows out thick/long, I'll look like Pai Mei someday. :)

[David Jamieson]

Mediocre brows are common. At least, that's what my mom told me...

[Dragonzbane76]

don't know gene you might have to forsake your Brazilian waxings for a bit to compete with pai mei. :)

http://www.flicksandbits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/paimei.jpg

[Violent Designs]

I feel that even with the same techs, your "flavor" or "style" should be representative of your "kung fu."

Look, Thai guys fight pretty differently than Dutch guys. They all use the same moves, but I know just from lookin if one is a "Dutch guy" or a "Thai guy."

For what it's worth.

[donjitsu2]

My point of view is this, Kung Fu in and of itself is more a philosophy or intangible than anything. Sure you have your systems and they have their flavor, but what two individuals have you ever seen use the same techniques, in the same manner, in the exact same way? You never have, and you never will.

You sir, have hit the metaphorical nail on the head. :cool:

[Darthlawyer]

Aren't most forms performed in an exaggerated way for training purposes. I mean, any of my forms that have a reverse punch that's been chambered at the waist level: I've always been told that that is trained that way for speed. I don't know many people who would actually throw a fully chambered punch in a fight: you'd lose a lot of time. Or another example, many CMA oriented schools have a "kick high in training (to develop power, balance, flexibility) but kick low in a fight" theory. As a result, the forms aren't going to be a fair representation of how they will appear in sparring/fighting.
I think that most people in America who get into Kung Fu started their interests because of the elaborate Wu-shueey moves they've seen in movies. I doubt that actual kung fu fights EVER looked that way, except maybe if people left kung fu training after being taught only forms but no applications and then pretended to be a master of whatever style they were using.

[Shaolinlueb]

hell yeah i do. and when i actually look like donnie yen from SPL or Flash point its going to be amazing!!!!

/sarcasm.

at times i wish it was like in the movies. then i turned 15.....

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I guess one of my other points is that most Kung Fu systems have a core of basics that are practiced from beginner to advanced levels. As one progresses and gets better these basics go from beginner to advance as well, because the backfist or jab you throw with three months experience is no where near the same level as the one you throw with three years experience, or whatever technique you are practicing.

However if you spend years on some exotic technique that is not very applicable and you spend all this time trying to master it you may be better off training something simple and effective into something instictive and reactionary. My personal Kung Fu comes from basics and techniques that I know have worked and I have used in sparring and fights. Than I drill those techniques over and over under different pressure tested situations.

[CYMac]

In a nutshell, do you feel most CMA practioners worry too much about so called chinese flavor and making their fighting resemble Kung Fu techniques found in forms or other areas as apposed to what many fights or sparring matches end up looking like (glorified kickboxing, of course:D).

In all seriousness I respect very much those that break down techniques from forms, basics, and two man training and apply or at least attempt to apply to a sparring or full contact match. But do you feel it is more beneficial from a fighting aspect to learn simpler basic tecniques that are easier to use? Thoughts?

IMO...

My kungfu were used in fights and competitive sparrings before and they can be used naturally like it is in the forms and drills. The problem with people turning the kungfu into a kickboxing type of fighting is because they lack the training only. There is a term I use which is "naturalizing your kungfu". If your kungfu movements are always done and practiced, you are so natural to them already and you feel awkward just to get in a kickboxing stance too! for me, I do fight with kungfu stances and they feel very natural to me to get on them naturally without thinking. It will become natural to you when you do more practice.

Think about if a baby have not seen boxing on TV or movies since they are born, when they grow up, they only do kungfu forms and trainings. AT age of 18, their natural way of fighting will be like very "kungfu looking". If you tell them to go in those "non kungfu looking" boxing style of fighting, they feel very awkward and hard to imitate as well.

Therefore, in my experience, I know how hard it is to naturalize the kungfu movements, but it is not impossible, you just need to have a good master, a good heart in training and NOT watching UFC all the time...

Kungfu is about practicing yourself more and more, not about watching others and trying it out yourself here and there. So it's not a buffet... haha!

[Iron_Eagle_76]

IMO...

My kungfu were used in fights and competitive sparrings before and they can be used naturally like it is in the forms and drills. The problem with people turning the kungfu into a kickboxing type of fighting is because they lack the training only. There is a term I use which is "naturalizing your kungfu". If your kungfu movements are always done and practiced, you are so natural to them already and you feel awkward just to get in a kickboxing stance too! for me, I do fight with kungfu stances and they feel very natural to me to get on them naturally without thinking. It will become natural to you when you do more practice.

Think about if a baby have not seen boxing on TV or movies since they are born, when they grow up, they only do kungfu forms and trainings. AT age of 18, their natural way of fighting will be like very "kungfu looking". If you tell them to go in those "non kungfu looking" boxing style of fighting, they feel very awkward and hard to imitate as well.

Therefore, in my experience, I know how hard it is to naturalize the kungfu movements, but it is not impossible, you just need to have a good master, a good heart in training and NOT watching UFC all the time...

Kungfu is about practicing yourself more and more, not about watching others and trying it out yourself here and there. So it's not a buffet... haha!


"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[CYMac]

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

That is apparently why "virtues" should be the first class in all kungfu courses and trainings. If not, the world will be flooded by beast and not human possesed with power and force only but not politeness and virtues.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That is apparently why "virtues" should be the first class in all kungfu courses and trainings. If not, the world will be flooded by beast and not human possesed with power and force only but not politeness and virtues.

Humility wouldn't kill you dude.

[David Jamieson]

That is apparently why "virtues" should be the first class in all kungfu courses and trainings. If not, the world will be flooded by beast and not human possesed with power and force only but not politeness and virtues.

Kung Fu forms are gross movements. they are meant to be changed to function within context to combat. That's why textbook technique pretty much never works in real application.

Real Kung Fu development comes when you put the forms behind you. They then become tools to teach others and perhaps maybe you practice them for posterity o to stay sharp in your instruction to others.

Anything that is to be mastered must ultimately be expressed by the individual at some point on the path and must be expressed naturally and with all required attributes.

Sitting must be done correctly, speaking, walking, moving, eating, fighting, showing courtesy to others, working, playing and fighting.

If you want to just fight. With Kung Fu, you risk leaving out all the other stuff.
All the other stuff is what a lot of people outside of Kung Fu training just hate it seems.

Some people even feel it is their duty in life to indicate how Lion dance has nothing to do with fighting. It's funny, because Kung Fu practitioners already know this.

We also know that forms aren't directly for fighting and neither is meditation and that offering incense has no fighting techniques, showing respect to the teacher by bowing and being respectful isn't fighting and learning about energies that propel us isn't fighting.

I find it odd how people outside feel insistent that they must educate everyone about what it is they are doing wrong despite their not really have ever taken on a curriculum of Kung Fu and without understanding the meaning of Kung Fu.

They become frustrated with all the invisible stuff which in turn is actually their own commitment, their own learning, their own supplication to the knowledge in order to gain a firmer grasp of it.

Now, that isn't to say there aren't people who perhaps have seen one too many movies, but the same could be said of the so called mma crowd as well.

Kung Fu guys often operate on a crouching tiger/hidden dragon kind of mentality, whilst the mma set prefers the Fast and the Furious kind of mentality.

It's a mentality thing for sure though, in most respects. What's really nice is when you get to mosh all that together so you have Kung Fu, boxing, wrestling, swordplay, exercise, yoga, zen, and all that integrated into your entire life style.

that's when it really comes together.

for me anyway

[Iron_Eagle_76]

That is apparently why "virtues" should be the first class in all kungfu courses and trainings. If not, the world will be flooded by beast and not human possesed with power and force only but not politeness and virtues.

LMAO, sorry if I don't take the advice of a supposed "Celestial Taoist Exorcist Master". Perhaps you should practice some of these "virtues" you speak about when you are charging idiots who believe in your bogus exorcisms (I still find this hard to believe) to get rid of make believe demons that you and other idiot religious sects make up to prey on the weak and feeble minded.

Nothing in the world cracks me up more than idiot "tradionalists" spouting off about virtues while at the same time ripping off people who don't know any better.:rolleyes:

[CYMac]

People got too much movies and comics in their mind, sometimes I really wonder how many really do kungfu. I can't even name much kungfu movies and I don't really watch movies much because my life is quite filled all the time~!

For me, kungfu is something very natural, and the movements of course are not used "fully" like it is in the forms because we are not robots or characters in the video games. BUT, you can really use the stance, punches and all that in your fighting with no problem if you are trained right instead of having a teacher telling you to "use it like boxing style". Anyway, it's really something hard to debate or talk about anyway unless there is real person to person contact demonstration or kungfu discussion, without a pair of hands, there is no way to show it.

So.. it's just IMO there.

[CYMac]

LMAO, sorry if I don't take the advice of a supposed "Celestial Taoist Exorcist Master". Perhaps you should practice some of these "virtues" you speak about when you are charging idiots who believe in your bogus exorcisms (I still find this hard to believe) to get rid of make believe demons that you and other idiot religious sects make up to prey on the weak and feeble minded.

Nothing in the world cracks me up more than idiot "tradionalists" spouting off about virtues while at the same time ripping off people who don't know any better.:rolleyes:

You have not tried a durian and so you say it stinks. Those who ate it, say it's yummy. If one can speak without trying out the real thing, telling people how awful durian taste just by it's look, they are just naive, idiotic and rude as well. I see no virtues in those people because they are simply just people who talk without real experience, and it all reflects on your personal life, character and also your kungfu as well. Standing two feets on a solid ground is important, it will bring your life more happiness, and you will have less "fire" to blow off.

Again, you have talked in a manner that abuse my profession, it's rude, if you have not noticed it. I am not saying that I care, but I just want to point that out to you just in case you don't realize it. You have not tried the durian, don't judge by it's look, there are many who ate it before and say it's yummy already, don't be so naive and laugh at it like a child.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

You have not tried a durian and so you say it stinks. Those who ate it, say it's yummy. If one can speak without trying out the real thing, telling people how awful durian taste just by it's look, they are just naive, idiotic and rude as well. I see no virtues in those people because they are simply just people who talk without real experience, and it all reflects on your personal life, character and also your kungfu as well. Standing two feets on a solid ground is important, it will bring your life more happiness, and you will have less "fire" to blow off.

Again, you have talked in a manner that abuse my profession, it's rude, if you have not noticed it. I am not saying that I care, but I just want to point that out to you just in case you don't realize it. You have not tried the durian, don't judge by it's look, there are many who ate it before and say it's yummy already, don't be so naive and laugh at it like a child.

http://321action.webs.com/photos/random-funny-pics-vot/epic_fail.jpg

[CYMac]

It's okay if you don't get my point. But watching too much movies really kills in the path of kungfu. It will be a very bad mindset to have if you are washed by kungfu movies in the 80's too, too much "traditional schools" (movie style) kind of thinking. But also, the fighting and stuff is bad as well. If you watch too much modern kungfu related movies, you also get into a fantasy land more. So it's really not a good thing.. too much mind obstacles.

Taste a durian before you comment on it's taste, or else, that is no different from false speech or rumor, lying, whatever.

IMO.

[David Jamieson]

I am not with you on the Durian man. lol.

I am not worried about what it looks like, but you must admit it smells like vomit +dead corpse but is remarkably sweet and juicy.

Just hold your nose when you eat it.

I'd rather have an apple quite frankly. :)

[David Jamieson]

People got too much movies and comics in their mind, sometimes I really wonder how many really do kungfu. I can't even name much kungfu movies and I don't really watch movies much because my life is quite filled all the time~!

For me, kungfu is something very natural, and the movements of course are not used "fully" like it is in the forms because we are not robots or characters in the video games. BUT, you can really use the stance, punches and all that in your fighting with no problem if you are trained right instead of having a teacher telling you to "use it like boxing style". Anyway, it's really something hard to debate or talk about anyway unless there is real person to person contact demonstration or kungfu discussion, without a pair of hands, there is no way to show it.

So.. it's just IMO there.

mmm the structure and energy of western boxing is not different from that required of the boxing arts in tcma.

There is no extra power in kung fu over boxing. They are the same when properly delivered.

Your idea of strange punches is missing something. Unorthodox attacks work for a little while because they are a surprise to someone who is ready to fight in an orthodox manner.

My partner and I have worked with a lot of tcma strikes and stances together and frankly, power development is lost in a lot of techniques.

A side punch from a horse stance has far less power than cross delieverd from a high bow and arrow.

The structure dictates where power will come from. It is in my opinion a pure waste of time to try and develkop power out of a structure that doesn't facilitate it. THere is a more direct and meaningful path.

If you want to dance, go dance, but if you want to focus on what works combatively, you have to winnow down all the forms and techs and find the very small amount of them that are what are known as high percentage.

the jab (short rapid punch) the cross (the anchored punch), the hook (surprise from the blind side) and the uppercut or piston punch.

These are the medium range punches that have very high percentage of effectiveness. Over and above virtually all other hand attacks and proven over time to be this way.

I can find all these basic powerful strike inside the tcma I practice. It is those that I draw out and focus on with drills and bag work etc.

Kicks is different and again, unusual ones are not generally high percentage.
Shovel kick, shin or knee kicks, push kicks, leg cutters and knees. Again, these are the kicks that are straight to the target, no fancy stuff, no huge energy use lifting yourself into the air etc. Just direct to target and forceful.

the fighting of kung fu should be effective, not fancy. Many have gotten that ass backwards.

[CYMac]

I am not with you on the Durian man. lol.

I am not worried about what it looks like, but you must admit it smells like vomit +dead corpse but is remarkably sweet and juicy.

Just hold your nose when you eat it.

I'd rather have an apple quite frankly. :)

Not really, when you get used to or love it, the durian is not smelly, you will say itis very good smelling too. When you have to hold your nose to eat it, it is only because you have not fall in love with it yet. All durian lovers love it so much, even the smell~! It's good!

Reminds me of how the "gwai lo" cheese are in China people's eyes before, they all say it stinks and it's so awful like sh!T, but then, when the Chinese started to like it, they strive for the heavier taste cheese! Pizza then got so common as well. Think about those who laughed at people who eat cheese back then in the old days, they are just naive, and unexposed to the subject. Later on, when it got common, they are the one being laughed at instead. Look, how tasty the cheese and durian are!

[CYMac]

mmm the structure and energy of western boxing is not different from that required of the boxing arts in tcma.

There is no extra power in kung fu over boxing. They are the same when properly delivered.

Your idea of strange punches is missing something. Unorthodox attacks work for a little while because they are a surprise to someone who is ready to fight in an orthodox manner.

My partner and I have worked with a lot of tcma strikes and stances together and frankly, power development is lost in a lot of techniques.

A side punch from a horse stance has far less power than cross delieverd from a high bow and arrow.

The structure dictates where power will come from. It is in my opinion a pure waste of time to try and develkop power out of a structure that doesn't facilitate it. THere is a more direct and meaningful path.

If you want to dance, go dance, but if you want to focus on what works combatively, you have to winnow down all the forms and techs and find the very small amount of them that are what are known as high percentage.

the jab (short rapid punch) the cross (the anchored punch), the hook (surprise from the blind side) and the uppercut or piston punch.

These are the medium range punches that have very high percentage of effectiveness. Over and above virtually all other hand attacks and proven over time to be this way.

I can find all these basic powerful strike inside the tcma I practice. It is those that I draw out and focus on with drills and bag work etc.

Kicks is different and again, unusual ones are not generally high percentage.
Shovel kick, shin or knee kicks, push kicks, leg cutters and knees. Again, these are the kicks that are straight to the target, no fancy stuff, no huge energy use lifting yourself into the air etc. Just direct to target and forceful.

the fighting of kung fu should be effective, not fancy. Many have gotten that ass backwards.

It's because you misunderstood the use of the side punch with horse stance, of course it's not effective... sigh..

Using kungfu movements are "fancy"? I don't think so. It's just a second nature to a kungfuman, a kungfumwn without movies and comics background.

[bawang]

old chinese martial art never talked about horse stance bow stance bullsh1t. it talked about step forward or backward left or right.
this is a big problem in kung fu today where you dont do a specific cat dog pusy stance for a technique you are wrong.

[Frost]

In a nutshell, do you feel most CMA practioners worry too much about so called chinese flavor and making their fighting resemble Kung Fu techniques found in forms or other areas as apposed to what many fights or sparring matches end up looking like (glorified kickboxing, of course:D).

In all seriousness I respect very much those that break down techniques from forms, basics, and two man training and apply or at least attempt to apply to a sparring or full contact match. But do you feel it is more beneficial from a fighting aspect to learn simpler basic tecniques that are easier to use? Thoughts?

Its more beneficial from a fighting point of view to actually train like you fight and train the way you will fight rather than trying to make fighting fit how you train

You know what I dislike more than people wondering if their kung fu looks like kung fu in a fight…the people who say you must keep the structure and methology of your art in a fight otherwise its just kick boxing but cant post a clip of anyone (let alone themselves) actually doing that

The only full contact fights I can see on this site showing people using their art in action is some baji, some CLF (which looks a lot like kick boxing with wider hooks etc) some lama stuff from Ross which is good and a little bit of chain punching…that’s it

Its sad really

[David Jamieson]

It's because you misunderstood the use of the side punch with horse stance, of course it's not effective... sigh..

Using kungfu movements are "fancy"? I don't think so. It's just a second nature to a kungfuman, a kungfumwn without movies and comics background.


lol. You would like to think so. I thought so too, but nope, it is simply not a very effective punch and I can help you to prove it to yourself if you like.

stand at your heavy bag. IN a high bow and arrow, throw a cross at the bag.
Now switch to side facing horse and launch a punch as hard as you can.

report back. :)

I don't misunderstand it at all. I have actually come to a clearer understanding.
There is a huge difference between dueling and fighting, ritual and reality.

All is revealed when you get the mettle to go and check yourself.
Only then can you know for sure.

I've taken that step several times and have learned more from my loss and failure than I have from the diligent practice that took me there.

It s very difficult for many people to find out after having invested a lot of time into something to find out that it is not exactly as they had imagined and in some cases, quite the contrary.

Talk is cheap. Deeds define a person more than anything they say or think.
In something so visceral as Kung Fu, there is a lot of room for discovery.

You will have a hard time finding a training partner that you can learn from and teach to. It took me years to find that person. lol

You spend a lot of time doing solo work. It would be to your advantage to get out there and maybe ring a bell or get a bell rung. That piercing sound of the bell will make a lot of things clear. :)

[bawang]

real kung fu doesnt look like kung fu.

[David Jamieson]

Its sad really

what's sad is that you limit your outlook to some videos on youtube.
This is a forum, not a proving ground.

lol and that's why trollshido fails hard.
also, if you think videos are the litmus of it all, why do you not post more of yours and indicate how x vs y = T or some such other meritorious effort from what is otherwise a mere naysayer?

Otherwise, this is a place of words and takeaways.

[sanjuro_ronin]

what's sad is that you limit your outlook to some videos on youtube.
This is a forum, not a proving ground.

lol and that's why trollshido fails hard.
also, if you think videos are the litmus of it all, why do you not post more of yours and indicate how x vs y = T or some such other meritorious effort from what is otherwise a mere naysayer?

Otherwise, this is a place of words and takeaways.

I don't know, maybe a few years ago that argument held water but nowadays you have 100's of videos of 100's of different systems all over the web.
Many of them from high ranking MA in their respective systems, many of them from instructionals released by those very masters.

If we are not finding the "real" *insert style here* then maybe Frost has some sort of point.

[CYMac]

old chinese martial art never talked about horse stance bow stance bullsh1t. it talked about step forward or backward left or right.
this is a big problem in kung fu today where you dont do a specific cat dog pusy stance for a technique you are wrong.

bawang, rescue your mother yet? When did you go back to "old china" and know all these fantastic stuff? Did you get that from sango fighter?

[CYMac]

Side punch at the heavy bag? now that's a stupid thing to do. The heavy bag will for sure swing to the stand and hit me back! Don't be silly dude~!

[bawang]

bawang, rescue your mother yet? When did you go back to "old china" and know all these fantastic stuff? Did you get that from sango fighter?

im use imaginashun

[Frost]

what's sad is that you limit your outlook to some videos on youtube.
This is a forum, not a proving ground.

lol and that's why trollshido fails hard.
also, if you think videos are the litmus of it all, why do you not post more of yours and indicate how x vs y = T or some such other meritorious effort from what is otherwise a mere naysayer?

Otherwise, this is a place of words and takeaways.

not limited to…but empirical evidence would be nice don’t you agree? It would help settle the point more than endless posts no??

Ill post clips of me in action when you do how’s that………….i can show you my grappling in action in sparring and in an actual comp…I look the same in training as I do in comp can you show me the same please?

And I didn’t ask for clips from people on the forum, I asked for any clips…I mean there are thousands of youtube clips of people doing forms, and two man demos etc so its not like TCMA crowd cant use a camera or are adverse to actually putting stuff out there correct? So why can they tape all that stuff but the camera suddenly goes missing when they spar or fight?

I can back up how I feel training should be done with clips of other people doing it that way and then fighting effectively, does my argument diminish because its not me in action? No and backing up your argument with others from your style wouldn’t diminish your points in my eyes

[David Jamieson]

I don't know, maybe a few years ago that argument held water but nowadays you have 100's of videos of 100's of different systems all over the web.
Many of them from high ranking MA in their respective systems, many of them from instructionals released by those very masters.

If we are not finding the "real" *insert style here* then maybe Frost has some sort of point.

His point is minor at best for many reasons.

1. not everyone tapes themselves and offers unsolicited instruction in martial arts via youtube.

2. Of those who do, many perhaps should not.

3. ego in this regards is often the vehicle of ridiculous failure

So, of all the videos that are out there, what percentage of them actually have value to someone who is training?

A lot of guys make videos, I used to. I stopped. It's pointless. It is only useful if it is instructional and only when it is coming from a tried and true and tested method, otherwise, the instruction is empty.

Almost NONE of the great fighters in THIS time post videos of their training or sparring or methods. All you see is the result. People make their assumptions off of that.

[CYMac]

im use imaginashun

Yeah, that is right, go rescue your mother now then, naughty boy :cool:

[bawang]

what the fuk did you say about my mother?

you want fight? where you live?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I don't know, maybe a few years ago that argument held water but nowadays you have 100's of videos of 100's of different systems all over the web.
Many of them from high ranking MA in their respective systems, many of them from instructionals released by those very masters.

If we are not finding the "real" *insert style here* then maybe Frost has some sort of point.

Anymore I think it is quite simple, if you can make it work it is worth doing. Otherwise, you are just performing, which is fine so long as you are not marketing it as combat effective and selling it as such.

[CYMac]

what the fuk did you say about my mother?

you want fight? where you live?

Grow up... or get a job, it iwll fill your time. If not enough, buy a dog.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

what the fuk did you say about my mother?

you want fight? where you live?

In the 36th chamber of Taoist Hell, along with his demon, Sukkalottacokk. Watch yourself, it's a dangerous place!:p

[Frost]

His point is minor at best for many reasons.

1. not everyone tapes themselves and offers unsolicited instruction in martial arts via youtube.

2. Of those who do, many perhaps should not.

3. ego in this regards is often the vehicle of ridiculous failure

So, of all the videos that are out there, what percentage of them actually have value to someone who is training?

A lot of guys make videos, I used to. I stopped. It's pointless. It is only useful if it is instructional and only when it is coming from a tried and true and tested method, otherwise, the instruction is empty.

Almost NONE of the great fighters in THIS time post videos of their training or sparring or methods. All you see is the result. People make their assumptions off of that.

Really you can see clips of GSP, Silva, Fedor all sparring and training, as well as countless boxers

You can also see them fighting

You can see clips of lots of fighters training, you might not see their routines in full but you will see them training and fighting

[bawang]

In the 36th chamber of Taoist Hell, along with his demon, Sukkalottacokk. Watch yourself, it's a dangerous place!:p

he scares
poosy

[David Jamieson]

Really you can see clips of GSP, Silva, Fedor all sparring and training, as well as countless boxers

You can also see them fighting

You can see clips of lots of fighters training, you might not see their routines in full but you will see them training and fighting

so what is your point?

You didn't talk about that, you were saying that you thought people here were sad because you didn't like what you saw in their videos.

So, where's your videos that speak to the points you want to counter?
Do you offer those?

[wenshu]

Shuai Jiao fights exactly as it trains.

[Frost]

so what is your point?

You didn't talk about that, you were saying that you thought people here were sad because you didn't like what you saw in their videos.

So, where's your videos that speak to the points you want to counter?
Do you offer those?

What’s your point? You are the one who said fighters don’t put clips of themselves up training we just see the end result, I simply pointed out that was PLAIN INCORRECT and factually wrong and that those clips are everywhere…… want to argue the point further? That’s why I quoted you in my post…just so we are clear

Do you actually read posts or just put your own spin on them?

I said what was sad was talking about how kung fu was this or that but couldn’t back it up with video clips , you then said people didn’t really put clips out there, to which I said people do put lots of clips out but for some reason cant record sparring and fighting clips, strange that

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Shuai Jiao fights exactly as it trains.

All effective systems fight how they train. You could do high kicks, splits, tucks, cartwheels, all that fun stuff for years in gymnastics but you can't fight with it. Performance based martial arts are no different, it's just the idiots that practice them that think they can.

[TenTigers]

Kung Fu forms are gross movements.
NOT ALL
they are meant to be changed to function within context to combat. That's why textbook technique pretty much never works in real application.DEPENDS< QUITE OFTEN THEY DO

Real Kung Fu development comes when you put the forms behind you. They then become tools to teach others and perhaps maybe you practice them for posterity o to stay sharp in your instruction to others.

Anything that is to be mastered must ultimately be expressed by the individual at some point on the path and must be expressed naturally and with all required attributes.

Sitting must be done correctly, speaking, walking, moving, eating, fighting, showing courtesy to others, working, playing and fighting.

If you want to just fight. With Kung Fu, you risk leaving out all the other stuff.
All the other stuff is what a lot of people outside of Kung Fu training just hate it seems.

Some people even feel it is their duty in life to indicate how Lion dance has nothing to do with fighting. SOUTHERN LION DANCE ACTUALLY CONTAIN MANY FIGHTING APPLICATIONS AS WELL AS POWER GENERATION>
It's funny, because Kung Fu practitioners already know this. ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T DO TRADITIONAL LION

We also know that forms aren't directly for fighting and neither is meditation and that offering incense has no fighting techniques, showing respect to the teacher by bowing and being respectful isn't fighting and learning about energies that propel us isn't fighting.

I find it odd how people outside feel insistent that they must educate everyone about what it is they are doing wrong despite their not really have ever taken on a curriculum of Kung Fu and without understanding the meaning of Kung Fu.

They become frustrated with all the invisible stuff which in turn is actually their own commitment, their own learning, their own supplication to the knowledge in order to gain a firmer grasp of it.

Now, that isn't to say there aren't people who perhaps have seen one too many movies, but the same could be said of the so called mma crowd as well.

Kung Fu guys often operate on a crouching tiger/hidden dragon kind of mentality, whilst the mma set prefers the Fast and the Furious kind of mentality.

It's a mentality thing for sure though, in most respects. What's really nice is when you get to mosh all that together so you have Kung Fu, boxing, wrestling, swordplay, exercise, yoga, zen, and all that integrated into your entire life style.

that's when it really comes together.

for me anywaY

[lkfmdc]

Grow up...



this is coming from THIS GUY :rolleyes:

[wenshu]

All effective systems fight how they train. You could do high kicks, splits, tucks, cartwheels, all that fun stuff for years in gymnastics but you can't fight with it. Performance based martial arts are no different, it's just the idiots that practice them that think they can.

Absolutely.

Flashy "America's Next Top Dance Crew" moves, for as much as some of us love to deride them, make a good conditioning base to start from should one desire contact.

[David Jamieson]

What’s your point? You are the one who said fighters don’t put clips of themselves up training we just see the end result, I simply pointed out that was PLAIN INCORRECT and factually wrong and that those clips are everywhere…… want to argue the point further? That’s why I quoted you in my post…just so we are clear

Do you actually read posts or just put your own spin on them?

I said what was sad was talking about how kung fu was this or that but couldn’t back it up with video clips , you then said people didn’t really put clips out there, to which I said people do put lots of clips out but for some reason cant record sparring and fighting clips, strange that

dude, I responded to your comment about how sad we here at kfm are because of videos you saw. you said "sad really". I read hwta you said. Are you clear about what it is your barking out all the time? geez. lol

Now, you would seem to like to twist that off into something else.

whatever hater. go hate i guess. lol

[TenTigers]

His most high celestial self annointed one (keep that up you'll go blind, you're already wearing glasses)isn't so far off on some of that. If you grow up only knowing Kung-Fu, then yes, that is what you will use when you fight-fight like you train.

I don't agree that if after that, you were introduced to basic kickboxing techniques, that it would feel foriegn and uncomfortable.
Quite the contrary, you will have increased body awareness, coordination, etc and will pick up the movements easily.

Case in point- Last year, at 52, I took up skiing.
Although I tried it on two or three occaisions when I was 13, I wasn't very successfull. In fact, other than swimming and a bit of soccer, I was a non-athelete-couldn't throw, catch, dribble, shoot.
Skiing is coming very easy now. Almost 40 yrs of MA training has come into play.
My balance, shifting, knee flexion, leg strength, oh, and I can fall without getting hurt.
I am now skiing intermediate level, and no, I'm not looking to ski black diamond anytime soon. Maybe when I'm older...

[Iron_Eagle_76]

His most high celestial self annointed one (keep that up you'll go blind, you're already wearing glasses)isn't so far off on some of that. If you grow up only knowing Kung-Fu, then yes, that is what you will use when you fight-fight like you train.

I don't agree that if after that, you were introduced to basic kickboxing techniques, that it would feel foriegn and uncomfortable.
Quite the contrary, you will have increased body awareness, coordination, etc and will pick up the movements easily.

Case in point- Last year, at 52, I took up skiing.
Although I tried it on two or three occaisions when I was 13, I wasn't very successfull. In fact, other than swimming and a bit of soccer, I was a non-athelete-couldn't throw, catch, dribble, shoot.
Skiing is coming very easy now. Almost 40 yrs of MA training has come into play.
My balance, shifting, knee flexion, leg strength, oh, and I can fall without getting hurt.
I am now skiing intermediate level, and no, I'm not looking to ski black diamond anytime soon. Maybe when I'm older...

Awesome! I remember learning how to ski and thinking snow plowing was very similiar to hourglass stance, which helped me to learn. I am a mediocre skiier at best but it is a great activity for the winter months!

[GeneChing]

What am I thinking?

If you do kung fu, you should look like a kung fu guy.

Get your kung fu guy outfits here. (http://www.martialartsmart.com/uniforms-kung-fu.html)

[Iron_Eagle_76]

What am I thinking?

If you do kung fu, you should look like a kung fu guy.

Get your kung fu guy outfits here. (http://www.martialartsmart.com/uniforms-kung-fu.html)

Gene, I do have a belt test coming up soon for some students. Since I'm one of the 12 out of 21,000 that post here, can you hook a brother up with a discount.:D

[Lucas]

can u make it say elite on the back and put skulls and flames on it?

[Lucas]

Gene, I do have a belt test coming up soon for some students. Since I'm one of the 12 out of 21,000 that post here, can you hook a brother up with a discount.:D

dude eat your rubbery nachos and be happy!

[wenshu]

His most high celestial self annointed one (keep that up you'll go blind, you're already wearing glasses)isn't so far off on some of that. If you grow up only knowing Kung-Fu, then yes, that is what you will use when you fight-fight like you train.

I don't agree that if after that, you were introduced to basic kickboxing techniques, that it would feel foriegn and uncomfortable.
Quite the contrary, you will have increased body awareness, coordination, etc and will pick up the movements easily.

Case in point- Last year, at 52, I took up skiing.
Although I tried it on two or three occaisions when I was 13, I wasn't very successfull. In fact, other than swimming and a bit of soccer, I was a non-athelete-couldn't throw, catch, dribble, shoot.
Skiing is coming very easy now. Almost 40 yrs of MA training has come into play.
My balance, shifting, knee flexion, leg strength, oh, and I can fall without getting hurt.
I am now skiing intermediate level, and no, I'm not looking to ski black diamond anytime soon. Maybe when I'm older...

Learning to ski as an adult is notoriously difficult! Nice illustration of the crossover of martial arts developed physical awareness. Congrats.

I was fortunate enough to have parents who were into it so I have been skiing since I could walk. Unfortunately I don't get on the mountain as much as I would like to anymore. Maybe when I'm independently wealthy I'll move to Sun Valley and be a professional ski bum martial artist.

I ski like I fight like I train. Or something.

[SPJ]

loose fit clothing and pants with ties on near ankles

some like to wear belt or sash

headbands are optional

some extravaganza items would be school emblems on the shirt or pants

---

to dress or look like kung fu---

shoes or shoeless

shirts or shirtless

--

:)

[Iron_Eagle_76]

can u make it say elite on the back and put skulls and flames on it?

Baaaahhhh, get yourself a REALZ pair of shorts:

http://www.martialartsmart.com/60-11rk.html

Nobody wants to take a roundhouse to the face with these bad boys on!:D

[bawang]

waaaaa strong

you habe honer

[Iron_Eagle_76]

waaaaa strong

you habe honer

It's all in the short!! Gene Ching have special Kung Fu Kikcbox shorts he sell to give you magic celestial powers, all y do is wera and rub testicles twice!!:p

[David Jamieson]

t-shirt and shorts or t-shirt and track pants or fu pants (track pants, but baggier and cotton).

I sleep in my underwear, so I'm not into the silky pj's

They are entirely inappropriate for a work out and more suitable for demonstration.

workout in clothes you don't mind tossing in the washer. lol

[Lucas]

Dont forget mayonaayse!

[lkfmdc]

she offered her honor
he honored her offer
and all night long
it was honor and offer

[Iron_Eagle_76]

t-shirt and shorts or t-shirt and track pants or fu pants (track pants, but baggier and cotton).

I sleep in my underwear, so I'm not into the silky pj's

They are entirely inappropriate for a work out and more suitable for demonstration.

workout in clothes you don't mind tossing in the washer. lol

I would also throw in a Shuai top or Judo Gi top for doing lapel throws, they come in very handy!;)

[David Jamieson]

what about pastys and thongs?

[GeneChing]

Actually, one of the things I do like about kung fu is that the uniforms aren't uniform. I've just never been into Japanese style gis or (http://www.martialartsmart.com/uniforms-karate.html) & Korean V-necks (http://www.martialartsmart.com/uniforms-tae-kwon-do.html) (don't get me started on demo uniforms (http://www.martialartsmart.com/uniforms-demo-uniforms.html)). That's what I like about Chinese martial arts. They are so diverse.

This bleeds over into techniques too. Sure, there are distinctive fighting techniques in Shaolin, Wing Chun, Hung Gar, ad nauseum, but there's also quite a range of methods because Chinese martial arts embraces so many different styles like Bokh, shuai jiao, dog boxing, etc. It's all about diversity.


Gene, I do have a belt test coming up soon for some students. Since I'm one of the 12 out of 21,000 that post here, can you hook a brother up with a discount.:D Don't you have a Tiger Claw (https://www.tigerclaw.com/home.php) account? That'll beat any discount I have to offer.

[Lucas]

Baaaahhhh, get yourself a REALZ pair of shorts:

Nobody wants to take a roundhouse to the face with these bad boys on!:D

clearly you are a karate guy :mad:

[Dragonzbane76]

Its more beneficial from a fighting point of view to actually train like you fight and train the way you will fight rather than trying to make fighting fit how you train

agree with this statment. The way I look at things in KF is that there is a lot of crap that doesn't work for me, and there is a lot of stuff that does. You have to sort through the garbage to find what works for you because your body is different from others and what works for some probably won't work for you. Trial and error through pressure testing. That is the secret behind it IMO. hitting a heavy bag in horse stance all day is not the same as focusing strikes with movement. Everything has it's place most misunderstand the use of things.

I also agree to a point with Jameson about the forms, they should be put behind at a point in your MA career. They are a teaching tool, but not applicable in the sense of what a true fight entails.

KF is a passion for most on here or they would not be on here and what is great is that it's got a lot of diversity in the styles and can be sorted through to grasp the things you find work for you. But for someone to just take things at base value and not explore that wide universe is only fooling themselves. To let themselves be led around by the nose and have blinders put upon themselves by some "mythical master" is nonsense.

[David Jamieson]

clearly you are a karate guy :mad:

hey now, we have a preference for the term "glorified kick boxer" around here.
thanks to our resident crazies, we get cool nicknames.

way better than "karate guy".
That's how my high school friends refer to me. lol

also, they suck.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

clearly you are a karate guy :mad:

Just so you know, I refuse to post my pic at 16 with my Karate Gi, bandanda, and mullet, not out of shame, because my uber awesomeness would blind you!!:eek:

[Dragonzbane76]

I've seen it, it does exist. the pain is still there in my brain.

[Lucas]

WHAT EVER KARATE GUY!

lol in reality i dont own any mma clothes or silk jammies...i like blank t shirts and jeans, or kungfu pants when im training. and no i dont have chuck norris jeans...

but anyone that owns any mma clothes with all those flames and skulls and sh!t and makes fun of kungfu guys with the silk needs to take a reality check. its not really any different...

you know unless you actually produce flaming skull when you do stuff.....

[Lucas]

Just so you know, I refuse to post my pic at 16 with my Karate Gi, bandanda, and mullet, not out of shame, because my uber awesomeness would blind you!!:eek:

yes indeed it would ser!

[Dragonzbane76]

I had some mma clothing when it first came out. but when the douchbag crowd started wearing it I scraped most of it. I like the not so much mainstream stuff. The mma crowd has their share of idiots just like the KF crowd. I like the middle of the road myself. :p

[Lucas]

I had some mma clothing when it first came out. but when the douchbag crowd started wearing it I scraped most of it. I like the not so much mainstream stuff. The mma crowd has their share of idiots just like the KF crowd. I like the middle of the road myself. :p

ditto...i got no problem with any clothes really im personally just more of a non label kind of guy. but ya the douchebag crowed sports elite mma gear waaaaay heavy. half of them build a sweat and work up a heavy breathing crossing the street to mcdonalds...

[GeneChing]

Just so you know, I refuse to post my pic at 16 with my Karate Gi, bandanda, and mullet, not out of shame, because my uber awesomeness would blind you!!:eek:
POST IT FOR THE WIN. If you truly had such a pic, we'd all bow down in awe!

um, did someone say MMA gear (http://www.martialartsmart.com/mma-gear.html)?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

but anyone that owns any mma clothes with all those flames and skulls and sh!t and makes fun of kungfu guys with the silk needs to take a reality check. its not really any different...

In all seriousness, every style of martial art has it cults and douchebags, MMA is no different. It's why I tell people at time jokingly to put on a rash guard and board shorts and you become an instant bad a**ss, but Kung Fu pants will weaken you!!:p

The world would be a much better place if people didn't take things so d**mn seriously!!

[Lucas]

The world would be a much better place if people didn't take things so d**mn seriously!!

WWWOOORRRDDD!!! those of us that find the joke in life get an extra bonus when we beat the game!

[Lucas]

um, did someone say MMA gear (http://www.martialartsmart.com/mma-gear.html)?

OMFG YOU GUYS HAVE A STARTER KIT??!?!??!?hahahahahah that is soooo awesome my eyes bleed from looking at it.

mma starter set (http://www.martialartsmart.com/62-set.html)

i hope it comes with a tattoo!

[Dragonzbane76]

POST IT FOR THE WIN. If you truly had such a pic, we'd all bow down in awe!


haha I should steal it from his house and post it... lol

like i said it does exist and it is epic in 80's bada$$'s ness.

[Dragonzbane76]

i hope it comes with a tattoo!

not just any old tattoo either... a paint on sticker tattoo. :D

[Lucas]

haha I should steal it from his house and post it... lol

like i said it does exist and it is epic in 80's bada$$'s ness.

dude....do it... no joke man... you'll get mad street cred if you do

[wenshu]

POST IT FOR THE WIN. If you truly had such a pic, we'd all bow down in awe!

um, did someone say MMA gear (http://www.martialartsmart.com/mma-gear.html)?

Needs more wallet chain.

[GeneChing]

i hope it comes with a tattoo!

It's actually a very popular seller. Mock it all you like, but this is a classic example of what people post here on the forum vs. what pays the bills for the forum. ;)

[Lucas]

It's actually a very popular seller. Mock it all you like, but this is a classic example of what people post here on the forum vs. what pays the bills for the forum. ;)

oh, i dont doubt that for one second. but you know me, i mock simply to mock because i can. :D

i am a guy that bought a ninja suit from you and sent you pictures of me wearing it...what can i really say lol

[Dragonzbane76]

It's actually a very popular seller. Mock it all you like, but this is a classic example of what people post here on the forum vs. what pays the bills for the forum.

haha whatever works IMO. if you can pay the bills for some tapout wearing idiot then by all means prosper. :p

[Iron_Eagle_76]

POST IT FOR THE WIN. If you truly had such a pic, we'd all bow down in awe!

um, did someone say MMA gear (http://www.martialartsmart.com/mma-gear.html)?

Because Gene asked, you will all receive!! Bow down to the awesomeness that is my mullet!! Let the haters hate, and the mullet lovers bask:cool:

[David Jamieson]

does it come with a razor to shave your head and a cheesy goatee?

because you need that for mma.

also a d-bag inksplotch around the bicep of barbwire or tribal band.

Personally, I'm looking for a mouth guard with naked boobs all over it. Because that would make for a killer smile!

[Dragonzbane76]

Because Gene asked, you will all receive!! Bow down to the awesomeness that is my mullet!! Let the haters hate, and the mullet lovers bask

that should recieve an award or something... :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

My eyes !!!!!! My eyes !!!!!!

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Come on, Paul, you know you have mullet pictures you want to post!!:p

[goju]

hahah and the matching green head band

[Iron_Eagle_76]

hahah and the matching green head band

Do not focus on the head band or you will miss all my mullet's gloooorrrry!!:p

[Brule]

So, how have things been since Danialsan crane kicked yo azz! :eek::D

[TenTigers]

it's weird, I was looking for a plain, black BJJ Gi without the NASCAR stuff all over it, but while looking through all the brands, they had these bjj gis with flames!
Some of the prices are absurd, too. These gis cost over 200.00!! Tokaido Karate gis don't cost that much.
I'm just going to dye my shuai jiao jacket instead..

[David Jamieson]

What I would like to know is, when did you join Hamas ?

[Darthlawyer]

mmm the structure and energy of western boxing is not different from that required of the boxing arts in tcma.

There is no extra power in kung fu over boxing. They are the same when properly delivered.

Your idea of strange punches is missing something. Unorthodox attacks work for a little while because they are a surprise to someone who is ready to fight in an orthodox manner.

My partner and I have worked with a lot of tcma strikes and stances together and frankly, power development is lost in a lot of techniques.

A side punch from a horse stance has far less power than cross delieverd from a high bow and arrow.

The structure dictates where power will come from. It is in my opinion a pure waste of time to try and develkop power out of a structure that doesn't facilitate it. THere is a more direct and meaningful path.

If you want to dance, go dance, but if you want to focus on what works combatively, you have to winnow down all the forms and techs and find the very small amount of them that are what are known as high percentage.

the jab (short rapid punch) the cross (the anchored punch), the hook (surprise from the blind side) and the uppercut or piston punch.

These are the medium range punches that have very high percentage of effectiveness. Over and above virtually all other hand attacks and proven over time to be this way.

I can find all these basic powerful strike inside the tcma I practice. It is those that I draw out and focus on with drills and bag work etc.

Kicks is different and again, unusual ones are not generally high percentage.
Shovel kick, shin or knee kicks, push kicks, leg cutters and knees. Again, these are the kicks that are straight to the target, no fancy stuff, no huge energy use lifting yourself into the air etc. Just direct to target and forceful.

the fighting of kung fu should be effective, not fancy. Many have gotten that ass backwards.

While I agree that there is far less power from a side horse stance throwing a punch, I wouldn't say its not useful to be able to throw a punch from that stance. What I'm saying is that, tactically speaking, you wouldn't be trying to position yourself to deliver a punch from that stance. It would be used to set yourself up in a position to throw a side kick. A sideways-oriented fighter is fighting defensively, or at a longer range: there is less of a striking surface presented to the opponent. Whereas a western boxing, more squared stance delivers more power and quicker strikes (from the hands). If I were in a fight against someone who favored hand striking over kicks, I'd be more prone to fight from a side stance (albeit not a low horse stance). I'd be in a better position to throw in some side kicks and deflect punches to either side. Additionally, I think you can increase and decrease the distance between fighters quickly while oriented in a side-ways manner. Try hitting someone sparring in a side stance (not a low horse): they can keep you at a range better with those side punches.

I think the biggest problem with TCMA is that there are many people who will perform a form or set and not think through the theory behind them. For example, I have a "short fist" set that has one technique that involves punching from a bow stance, then from a fully upright, feet together stance, in a couple of alternating punches. If thought through, it teaches throwing punches from different angles and stance heights. I'd compare it to a western boxer using a "bully" style fighting: springing in low and throwing alternatively high and low. The formality of the stance isn't as important as being comfortable mixing up one's approach. If I know what a fighter will do next, I'm more likely to be able to defend or strike them.

[Lucas]

Because Gene asked, you will all receive!! Bow down to the awesomeness that is my mullet!! Let the haters hate, and the mullet lovers bask:cool:

dude, you rule!

[wenshu]

Gets the Karate Kyle treatment

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_LZZ116SJC7Q/TbnROFdK-WI/AAAAAAAAB5M/lXZfb0cTFnM/s800/Mullet%20Galore.jpg

[David Jamieson]

He shoud be happy he didn't eat no chili the night before.

Ol' chili stripe karate boy would be his new nick if it happened....

[hskwarrior]

save the Hamas for yo momma's!!!!!!!

[GeneChing]

Because Gene asked, you will all receive!! Bow down to the awesomeness that is my mullet!! Let the haters hate, and the mullet lovers bask:cool:Now if only I could get that to work for people to shop at MartialArtsMart (http://www.martialartsmart.com/)...

Hold the phone....Iron_Eagle_76, is that really you? :p

[Lucas]

now if only i could get that to work for people to shop at martialartsmart (http://www.martialartsmart.com/)...

Hold the phone....iron_eagle_76, is that really you? :p

you know it is!

[David Jamieson]

I'm pretty sure it's a hamas guard or something.
That funky toilet duck and obvious made in Palestine bathroom scale kind of give it away.

I can almost hear the ululating when i see that image....

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Now if only I could get that to work for people to shop at MartialArtsMart (http://www.martialartsmart.com/)...

Hold the phone....Iron_Eagle_76, is that really you? :p

For all you pri**cks (I mean friends:p) that are my friends on Facebook you can look in my profile pics to ensure it is indeed me. My lovely wife got hold of this picture some time back and posted it on FB for all to see. Being the good sport I am, I thought I would share.;)

[KC Elbows]

In a nutshell, do you feel most CMA practioners worry too much about so called chinese flavor and making their fighting resemble Kung Fu techniques found in forms or other areas as apposed to what many fights or sparring matches end up looking like (glorified kickboxing, of course:D).

In all seriousness I respect very much those that break down techniques from forms, basics, and two man training and apply or at least attempt to apply to a sparring or full contact match. But do you feel it is more beneficial from a fighting aspect to learn simpler basic tecniques that are easier to use? Thoughts?

I think it's a matter of exoticizing kung fu. For instance, you can always tell the tma guy in some sparring clip who is doing this because, in simply moving, pre-contact, with his opponent, he breaks out every cross step and weird thing, thinking this is kung fu. Does he think that Chinese people don't ever just step slightly to the left or right like normal people? Is he completely unaware that the cross steps are related to things most styles cross step for, and often involve doing something to an opponent already under some control, not for walking around some guy and suddenly exposing your side and limiting your options because it's what the Taoist Immortals would do?

That, and training posing. Who hasn't met a kung fu guy who talks about the superiority of the flow of kung fu, and then spars and pauses after moves he's convinced himself in his training are dramatic? How is that flowing?

Ack, I am angry.:mad:

:D

[GeneChing]

I got out of a lot of fights in elementary and high school, just by posturing. Honestly. Of course, I went to school in the Jurassic era - there were only half a dozen Asians at my high school and few people knew much about martial arts back then, so I could get away with a lot of chicanery. ;)

On a different topic, there's a shamanistic aspect of Chinese martial arts that many modern practitioners overlook. Perhaps ridicule is a better term - but I find this sad. That is deeply embedded in the culture. Anyone who has done traditional lion dance will have a sense of this. Lion dance does nothing for self defense, but it is a cultural construct and has value on that level just like any folk art.

Wait...what were we talking about?

[KC Elbows]

I got out of a lot of fights in elementary and high school, just by posturing. Honestly. Of course, I went to school in the Jurassic era - there were only half a dozen Asians at my high school and few people knew much about martial arts back then, so I could get away with a lot of chicanery. ;)

I can remember in the past, sparring with people who strange steps threw off. These days, I'm big on being ordinary, strange as that sounds, so my goal is to keep everything in its ordinary place technique wise, and it seems to me most strikes, throws, footwork, all seem non-dramatic at their best(not discounting flashy moves or the drama of sudden violence, but its the effect that may be dramatic more than MOST moves, imo).


On a different topic, there's a shamanistic aspect of Chinese martial arts that many modern practitioners overlook. Perhaps ridicule is a better term - but I find this sad. That is deeply embedded in the culture. Anyone who has done traditional lion dance will have a sense of this. Lion dance does nothing for self defense, but it is a cultural construct and has value on that level just like any folk art.

I can see what you are talking about. I think form leaves room for this in many ways, where you recite your notes of what you know about the move and the linkages, but also in the moment can flow absent mindedly/primally, not seeking to recite as much as be it, for lack of a better term.

Never lion danced, but the best chen stylist I ever met was, nonetheless, a sucker for beauty in form, it had to be functional, but he wanted occasional moves for raw beauty. I'm long limbed, so when I did any step that involved my arms being spread, he was happiest when I seemed most like a hawk about to descend on some prey. He was pleased that my attitude toward training was professional and disciplined without thuggery, he was pleased that I respected aspects of taoism and confucianism, he was pleased that, despite the limits of my henanhua, I could figure out what he was doing on sight with the minimum of exposition, but nothing compared to his joy at the giant hawk thing.


Wait...what were we talking about?

Quality martial arts gear at affordable prices.

[Dragonzbane76]

I got out of a lot of fights in elementary and high school, just by posturing. Honestly. Of course, I went to school in the Jurassic era - there were only half a dozen Asians at my high school and few people knew much about martial arts back then, so I could get away with a lot of chicanery.

On a different topic, there's a shamanistic aspect of Chinese martial arts that many modern practitioners overlook. Perhaps ridicule is a better term - but I find this sad. That is deeply embedded in the culture. Anyone who has done traditional lion dance will have a sense of this. Lion dance does nothing for self defense, but it is a cultural construct and has value on that level just like any folk art.

I'm more for simplicity myself, but I do find beauty in watching motion. It's a passion to watch a perfect roundhouse or see the chess game of ground work with set ups that finally pays dividends. Sometimes I wish I could go back to the days of my youth and have that raw drive to learn and soak up everything (including the "flashy"), and not question it. I find the older you get the more you loose that. You depend upon the tried and true you've found that works. I still find it amazing to watch the younger crowd that I teach and see the light bulb come on when something clicks. The look they give when you show something you usually don't do and then watch them go and try it and get it to work.

honestly if someone can get a "flashy" move to work then good for them. But I will still go back to the simple movements and try and find beauty in them as well.

[GeneChing]

I should qualify my comment above. I never did that posturing bluff against anyone who appeared to have significantly better skill. That's one of those martial things, right? You size up your opponent. Come to think of it, that sort of showboating was something I'd only do when I was reasonably confident that if push came to shove, I'd win, so I guess it wasn't really a bluff.


Quality martial arts gear at affordable prices. Right, right - thanks for the reminder. Be Martial Arts Smart, shop MartialArtsMart (http://www.martialartsmart.com/)!

[KC Elbows]

I expect they're gonna see a rush on glaves. Just a hunch. I'm glad I already got my wushu steel glave, the handle has the same glitter as my demo outfit!

[Northwind]

You have not tried a durian and so you say it stinks. Those who ate it, say it's yummy.

Bad example... Durians DO stink and yet can also be tasty. There is a reason why all over Singapore (in taxis, public transport and other areas), you can find signs with a picture of a durian inside a circle with a line crossing through it...