Eitquette

[Minghequan]

Do you apply etiquette in your schools? How do you apply it? What form does it take?

I'm talking about "Bowing in & Out", "Paying respect to a fellow student or instructor"

How important to you view such etiquette or is it a waste of valuable training time?

[YouKnowWho]

I had a custom made WC wooden dummy in my school before. Oneday someone broke in. He kneed down infront of that wooden dummy and worship it as his God. Before the policemen took him away, he turned his head and said to me, "I have always felt that I belong to here". I have no idea about how people think sometime. The training hall is just an empty room. There is nothing spiritual about it.

[-N-]

He kneed down infront of that wooden dummy and worship it as his God. Before the policemen took him away, he turned his head and said to me, "I have always felt that I belong to here".

Maybe you should show him how to create an account on here :D

[hskwarrior]

My wooden Dummy tells me when i'm hitting it too hard :)

[Drake]

Respect and etiquette is best displayed by normal day to interactions, not by ceremony. You can bow all you like and still be a disrespectful assbag.

[SPJ]

etiquette are very superficial or just gesture

but code of ethics are more strick or serious

each school or style will have a code of behavior

if the school rule or men gui is broken

there will be banishment or some forms of punishment

--

:eek:

[CYMac]

Respect and etiquette is best displayed by normal day to interactions, not by ceremony. You can bow all you like and still be a disrespectful assbag.

I strongly agree because I have seen people like that from some kungfu school, they bow and do that "kungfu bow" a lot but after that they start to say all the F word all that stuff, really disgusting. (I saw them in a competition, it's just turns me off)

[TenTigers]

we bow on and off the floor.
we bow before and after class-altar and Sifu
we say,"Yes Sir," and "No Sir."
We bow before two-man drills and sparring
We recite student creed before class.
No foul language is permitted in the kwoon

[bawang]

confucianism says with no sincerity ritual is worthless. but today u can "ahhh so prease" all you want.

[TenTigers]

confucianism says with no sincerity ritual is worthless. u can "ahhh so prease" all you want its whats really in ur heart that matters.
i dont bother with rituals or talk about rituals and manners because lots of simple things that are normal today is not normal in ancient times
true dat, most of the etiquitte in our school is a result of the commercialization, or teaching to the public. It helps shape young minds, as well as maintaining a check on the ego.
None of this is neccesary in a small, closed-door enviornment.

[RickMatz]

"...lots of simple things that are normal today is not normal in ancient times "

Boy is that an understatement.

[TenTigers]

ha! caught ya! :D

[bawang]

It helps shape young minds
i think thats a good goal, reaching out to young kids

[ginosifu]

Etiquette in the Kung Fu Class Room

The Shaolin Kung Fu Institute’s “Kwoon” (kung fu class room or training area) is filled with many Chinese cultural practices and observances. Even though we are a modern school, we still follow the traditional rules and etiquette given to us by our kung fu ancestors. These rules are guidelines for all students to follow during and even after class. The rules of Etiquette help build character and offer structure to the beginner student and provide depth and meaning for more advanced student.
The Salute or Bow
The Salute is a sign of respect. It is also a gesture on your part to show that ready to start your martial arts journey. There are many types of Salutes or Bows. Our school uses the right fist and left palm placed together in front of you. Stand straight up as you salute entering the school. Always bend forward a little when saluting your seniors and bend more for your Sifu.
If your are practicing Hung Gar, your salute may look a bit different then others. They use a right fist and left Tiger claw with a left cat stance. There even other schools that their salutes look even more different. Don’t get hung up on what or how a salute looks like. It is more important just to show respect, than to worry about how it looks.
There are also many different origins of the Kung Fu Salute. Through research and detailed conversations with many masters, I have found that Salute is different for each school and different origins. Some say right fist is martial power and left palm is knowledge of how to use it. Some say right fist is Yang and left palm is Yin. Some say the different positions of palms and fists were like secret hand shakes or code signs for rebel factions. If you did not know the correct hand position, you probably were not a member and did gain access to their gang or club. You might have even been killed if you stumbled across a triads hideout and did not have the correct Salute or hand code.
Yet another origin of the Salute is that the salute had a practical application. Martial artists were always very cautious in the old days, and a hand shake was considered either too threatening or an invitation for attack. Warriors would try to avoid contact with unscrupulous people, leery of surprise attacks. Many Chin Na (joint locking) techniques begin from a handshake.

Why You Salute
One of the main reasons to salute is to give honor to the past masters who have gone before you. You give them respect for the hardships they endured to gain their skill and knowledge. Saluting to your seniors also shows humility. Being humble is a big part of kung fu training. It is part of your moral character training, in which your Sifu will test to see if you are worthy of learning the more advanced material or if they think you have a bad attitude, you may never learn the deeper aspects of that style.

WHEN?
The first place to Salute is when you enter or exit the school building itself. Then salute as you enter or exit the Kwoon. This signifies that you wish to honor our Martial Ancestors and preserve these skills and pass them on to future generations.
Always salute to your Sifu, give him or her the utmost respect for the hardships they went through to achieve their position. Salute to your Senior students and any classmates that you may be working with for drills. This shows them that you bear no hard feelings during training (especially blocking exercises). Salute at the beginning and ending of every class. Try to be the first to salute, this shows alertness, quick reflexes and most of all… respect.

ATTENDANCE AND TARDINESS
Your weekly class sessions have been tested over and over. Thru diligent observation and years of experience, the schools have found that 2-3 lessons per week will sufficiently train a student and help them to achieve their goals in the appropriate amount of time. You should be attending your schools classes at least 2 times per week. Any less than this will push back the time it takes to reach your goals (whether it’s a black sash or 20 pounds).
The term “Kung Fu” can be translated as a skill gained over a period of time, thru dedicated effort. Staying home to watch television instead of going to class, just shows that you are not dedicated, especially in the teachers eyes. Going to class on a constant basis also builds a pattern in your muscle memory and adds endurance to your lungs. Your muscles and lungs become use to the rigors of the kung fu class and prepare the student for more extreme workouts as they grow closer their Black Sash! How many of you remember what it felt like after you took that week or 2 off? What did it feel like the first day back? Tardiness or being late to class is probably one of the biggest bad habits there is. Barring any physical problems such as a flat tire or you had to work overtime to make your tuition payment, being late is:

#1 disrespectful to the teacher. It makes it seem that you do not care about what he is teaching.
#2 It also disrupts the class as you enter late. Students have to move and change rank arrangements.
#3 You miss part of the warm up and exercise program. Some students are late on purpose to miss jumping jacks….

DRESS CODE
The kung fu uniform is the attire worn during class time or during any class functions (tournaments, demonstrations etc.). The reason behind wearing any uniform at all is the traditional Kung Fu School, students were dedicated to their master. All students would wear schools colors to show how proud they were to be under their Sifu. Also on a more traditional note, schools usually made every one wear the same thing so no one would feel inferior and all would be equal under the teacher. The uniform you are wearing now is practical and economic as well.
Besides the uniform, there are items that are not good to wear during your class. Things like jewelry, street shoes, head covers and such are not permitted in class. Many items like watches and rings will injure other classmates during 2 person drills. Street shoes bring dirt and debris onto the kung fu floor and make an unsafe environment to stretch on it.

RESPECT
To be gracious and humble and always show respect to others. This is in the first part of the creed and for a good reason. Respect is a big part your kung fu training. Showing respect to your teacher, lets them know that you are humble enough to know they deserve it. Respect is not only for your Sifu, but for everyone. If an older person is trying to buy something at the grocery store, let them go in front of you. If a neighbors child fell down, help them up. If your parents tell you to clean up your room, do it without any back talk or sassy mouth. Always say: Yes Sifu or No Sifu, please and thank you. These signs of respect build and overflow into regular life. Overall, respect is a essential for the kung fu student and their goal to master themselves.

ALTAR
The kung fu Altar something a bit different than what it may sound like. The Altar does not have any religious affiliations nor does the kung fu school for that matter. It does represent the past masters who have dedicated their lives to training and passing on the knowledge we are privileged to have today.
In Chinese culture, showing respect to your ancestors is a major part in family life. The same can be said for the Kung Fu family. Showing respect to men and woman who have gone ahead of you is a major part role of respect for the kung fu student. Altars come in many forms and styles. From a small stand on a table to a large scale Altar that encompasses an entire wall While attending your class, be careful not to bump or disturb the Altar. Breaking a porcelain figurine on the Altar shows that you are not paying attention to where you are at.

ginosifu

[bawang]

ALTAR
The kung fu Altar something a bit different than what it may sound like. The Altar does not have any religious affiliations nor does the kung fu school for that matter.

not only are you disrespecting chinese tradition by taking worship lightly, you trick your students into worshipping.
etiquette is not some rigid thing you copy, its something you are inside. its not how many oriental rituals u can emulate. not how many ching chang pow empty words u can mimmick.

[mooyingmantis]

Minghequan,
Excellent topic!

Gino,
Excellent synopsis!

All,
At my training hall we bow, right fist in left palm/back straight and bend slightly at the waist/press palm and fist slightly forward, at the beginning and end of class.

I tell students we bow:
1. To show respect to one another.
2. As a symbol that we are clearing our minds of outward distractions to take on a training mentality.

My classes are small and very informal, no pomp and circumstance. :p

[TenTigers]

When I say,"The altar does not have any religious significance to the students.." I am saying the students, rather than overall. For me,personally, there is a significance of a male and female aspect(Guan Gung and Guan Yum) but I do not push it upon my students. Saying this, allows my students to feel comfortable, rather than feeling that I am trying to convert them.
Just another aspect of teaching to the public. We have people from all walks of life-Christians, Jehovas (ok, they usually turn on their heels when they see the sun toi) etc. So it must be taken into account. I guess I can not have an altar at all, and just have it inmy own home, but this is my own choice, of how I present my Gung-Fu.
I think Gino is pretty much on the same page here.

[CYMac]

Talking about altars... in HK, some kungfu schools relate to triad gangs and that is why they put a certain SETUP of altars up too. Just to put that up so their own lineage people or other lineages can recongnize them when they see it. It's like a code to show who they are.

Some do "shan gong" in HK too, those off shoot Taoism stuff that promote self-chopping with a blade and all that stuff. So they put their lineage altar up as well and let others also get in that lineage while they do kungfu. So you get in 2 lineages when you enter there. One is their kungfu and one is the magic side.