is it, or isn't it???

[TenTigers]

not quite sure how to phrase this, so bear with me..
TCMAists who fight or train fighting-MMA, etc will say that the overhand is basically cup-choy, the long hook is sow choy, jab is jik, cross is ping, uppercut is jong, or pow.
But..is it, or isn't it?
There are two ways to look at this; one could be simply justifying that they are still doing Kung-Fu, when they have actually dropped it completely, including footwork, positioning, strategies, etc. "trapping doesn't work in real time," etc..

or, they really are maintaining their art, and simply have a better understanding of how to effectively utilize their style's techniques from having used it in real time.

Is it evolution, or are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Face it, there are many people who train and TEACH TCMA-not all have actually been taught the proper method of using their techniques.

Are there subtle nuances that distinguish cup from overhead, sow from hook? Do they work, or are they dropped?

Is the moi-fa, chut-sing, kay-lun, seu bo faht, dropped, or do you use it?

[TenTigers]

"I can turn out a good fighter in a shorter amount of time,"
so therefore, are the other skills simply not worth training?
Is it evolution? Is Kung-Fu evolving, or devolving?

[bawang]

wtf is this ching chang pow nonsense?? speak english

in kung fu a jab is called a jab. a straight is called a straight. a cross is called a cross.

[Dragonzbane76]

we only have so many legs and arms a names a name only that. why bog down with technicalities? how many languages are there? lots.

I could name a jab "ehiciniclalfizbang" does it make it different NO. it's still a jab in my book.

[David Jamieson]

wtf is this ching chang pow nonsense?? speak english

in kung fu a jab is called a jab. a straight is called a straight. a cross is called a cross.

Sets are expression of maximum range of motion training.

The shape is far more compact when in tactical use.

The techniques are not linear either.

but yeah, we always got the english too IE: ping choy = flat fist, yut gi choy = vertical fist, charp choy is an overhand, pao choy is an uppercut and so on. I like to use low hooks which are palm up straight punches to teh body or chum choy or cannon fist...and so on.

So, yes, I agree with both of you, either/either is indeed correct.

I don't think it's giving up the art to refine it further and make it wholly practical and if you teach without that, maybe it's in the best interest of whoever does so to acquire supplementary training that will allow them to further understand what they already have.

[bawang]

southern kung fu guys have obsession with words and terms and categories. and its not eveb proper chinese, its fuked up toisan dialect.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I can take a sh**it in the woods and call it a pile of gold!! Whatever I call it does not take away the fact that it is still a pile of sh**it!!!:D

[bawang]

in northern kung fu a straight is called "straight fist" "straight hammer". fancy term is "dragon extends claws"

they all the same sh1t


giving codenames to concepts and techniques confuses outsiders, and it looks like it has served its purpose. you teach hung ga for 30 years and u stil lcant figure it out.

[dirtyrat]

maybe its just me but some of the wide hooking techniques that people usually say its a strike, to me could be applied as a clothesline type maneuver

[hskwarrior]

Its been my understanding that Kup is performed straight up and down using the row of knuckles you knock on the door with. In our lineage we use the same fist shape for our Sow Choy, although our lineage has three types of Sow Choy (Short, medium, and long range).

I personally think from a CLF perspective the Over hand isn't a Kup Choy or can't even equate to one. I would call an over hand a short type of a Sow Choy because of the angle of the swing. but perhaps Kup Choy's are performed differently in other schools.

[bawang]

in kung fu there is no "could be" "maybe". you either know or dont know.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/dbpen/deliverance.gif

[bawang]

those hong kong movies permanently fuked up you guys heads.

[hskwarrior]

maybe its just me but some of the wide hooking techniques that people usually say its a strike, to me could be applied as a clothesline type maneuver

So you would just Run with your arm out straight till you hit the guy? LOL For CLF, the Sow Choy CAN be used like a striking clothesline. The Sow Choy isn't about the striking surface but its called "SWEEPING" for a reason.

[David Jamieson]

southern kung fu guys have obsession with words and terms and categories. and its not eveb proper chinese, its fuked up toisan dialect.

Well, it's a dialect and there are many who are Toisanese, like...millions! And many of them are here in NA now, so it's no big deal to have as your base of chinese cantonese with the Toisanese dialect inflections etc.

Most of teh chinese I know is this.

I think that putonghua sounds fruity, so there. lol all she she po po na na ho ho fee fee fi fi fo fo fum fum...crikey.. :D

[bawang]

for my dialect a normal day sounds like the nanjing massacre. i speak mandarin to others so they can actually know what the hell im talking about.

guangdong hicks refuse to speak mandarin because theyre guangdong hicks. sounds like a bunch of dam hens clucking. bok bok bok bok

its chinese ebonics

[KC Elbows]

My first trip to China, I constantly thought everyone was arguing. It wasn't until I saw two woman in a bar yelling at each other and flinging glasses all over the place that I caught the subtle nuances of the language.

[wenshu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectification_of_names

"[distinguish] between things that are the same and those that are different'[3]

http://books.google.com/books?id=4bLvpDjQMB8C&pg=PA1&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2D9MM2E8qDuLyHreyFBtISjXWL2A&ci=51%2C839%2C764%2C385&edge=0
http://books.google.com/books?id=4bLvpDjQMB8C&pg=PA2&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2N1WbZjQmpFh07Ns42uk3Tz134fQ&ci=142%2C169%2C790%2C378&edge=0
On The Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason (http://books.google.com/books?id=4bLvpDjQMB8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+fourfold+root+of+the+principle+of+sufficien t+reason&hl=en&ei=k-TfTYOpBYW8sQPmwLSsBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false)


***
http://www4a.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP81019fg60dcc6f36bf4000026d1c1cc7f2gac98?MSPStor eType=image/gif&s=43&w=50&h=18
For all x, True(x) if and only if φ(x), (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=p+or+not+p)

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/tarski-truth/#StaTruDef

[dirtyrat]

So you would just Run with your arm out straight till you hit the guy? LOL For CLF, the Sow Choy CAN be used like a striking clothesline. The Sow Choy isn't about the striking surface but its called "SWEEPING" for a reason.

hey if works.... :D actually i'd combined the striking clothesline with a tripping/sweeping leg.

[bawang]

u guys need a good beating to make u see clearly. it feels like ur suddenly sober.

i bet some of u havent got ur ass beat in 20 years.

[wenshu]

"if" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqoGcC4S5jk)

[dirtyrat]

u guys need a good beating to make u see clearly. it feels like ur suddenly sober.

i bet some of u havent got ur ass beat in 20 years.

some of us are that good :p. maybe you should train harder.

[hskwarrior]

hey if works.... actually i'd combined the striking clothesline with a tripping/sweeping leg.

hahah so do we. its all good.

[sanjuro_ronin]

When I am wearing MMA shots I am doing MMA, when I am wearing my MT shorts I am doing MT and when I wear my kung fu jammies, I am doing Kung Fu.

[YouKnowWho]

maintaining their art ...

There are ways to do something. But there is a better way to do somthing.

When you train your longfist roundhouse kick, oneday you saw a TKD guy did his roundhouse kick better than you, you change your rounghouse kick by using the TKD method. Later on you saw a MT guy did roundhouse kick better than you, you change your TKD roundhouse kick by using the MT method. Do you give up your longfist style? No! You just improve your longfist style by changng ineffective training method into effective training method.

100 years later your longfist system will have roundhouse kick as effective as the MT system. Will that be nice?

Not all foreign stuff are better. Today I still prefer my TCMA "neck surrounding" instead of boxing hook punch. I still prefer my double heads instead of the modern bench pressing, ...

[hskwarrior]

When I am wearing MMA shots I am doing MMA, when I am wearing my MT shorts I am doing MT and when I wear my kung fu jammies, I am doing Kung Fu.

thats why i prefer the old T SHIRT and Gung FU pants. No Jammies. MC HAMMER had good gung fu pants LMAO

[YouKnowWho]

"I can turn out a good fighter in a shorter amount of time,"
so therefore, are the other skills simply not worth training?
Is it evolution? Is Kung-Fu evolving, or devolving?
The path of a fighter is different from the path of a TCMA teacher. A fighter is not someone who knows everything, but who can do few things good.

You can

- write a book for 400 moves.
- make a video tape for 200 moves.
- teach your student for 100 moves,
- demo for 50 moves,
- fight for 10 moves.

There are "door guarding skills" that you need to train daily. There are "general skills" that you may only need to train every other day.

[sanjuro_ronin]

thats why i prefer the old T SHIRT and Gung FU pants. No Jammies. MC HAMMER had good gung fu pants LMAO

Hammer time !

I train with shorts and t-shirt, I can't recall the last time I used a Gi ( It was BJJ class years ago) and I have a Kung Fu Top that I have, but use it only when I am at the bar-b-que and the steaks need the special something !

[KC Elbows]

I have a yellow jumpsuit for doing jkd.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have a yellow jumpsuit for doing jkd.

Take it easy Uma.

[KC Elbows]

Take it easy Uma.

I bow to your witty pop culture reference.:D

[YouKnowWho]

the overhand is basically cup-choy,... proper method of using their techniques.

Quote this from SC master David C. K. Lin:

- The name of the move is not important (you may call it whatever that you want).
- There is no standard for each move (you can modify it to fit your body type).

My teacher's "front cut" was a direct vertical downward motion. David's "front cut" starts with horizontal spinning motion (he had integrated his "leg break" into his "front cut"). Both my teacher's "front cut" and David's "front cut" are equal effective in combat.

[Subitai]

not quite sure how to phrase this, so bear with me..
TCMAists who fight or train fighting-MMA, etc will say that the overhand is basically cup-choy, the long hook is sow choy, jab is jik, cross is ping, uppercut is jong, or pow.
But..is it, or isn't it?
There are two ways to look at this; one could be simply justifying that they are still doing Kung-Fu, when they have actually dropped it completely, including footwork, positioning, strategies, etc. "trapping doesn't work in real time," etc..

or, they really are maintaining their art, and simply have a better understanding of how to effectively utilize their style's techniques from having used it in real time.

Is it evolution, or are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Face it, there are many people who train and TEACH TCMA-not all have actually been taught the proper method of using their techniques.

Are there subtle nuances that distinguish cup from overhead, sow from hook? Do they work, or are they dropped?

Is the moi-fa, chut-sing, kay-lun, seu bo faht, dropped, or do you use it?

Hi Ten...keepin' the mafia 6' underground with your badself eh? Love you man!

Anyway, to answer you're question...I done both and kinda fit this mold and I say IMO: <<< ISN'T >> .... the same IE.

Just as an example...if Cup choi is like knocking on a door, how is an overhand right even remotely similar, it's just wishfull thinking.


I think your comment about people " justifying " carries wieght and is probably true for some.

* What I think is also a possibility is that those TCMA who havn't Finished their training to a high enough level of skill and therefore:

- Result they gave up and switched to MMA.

** My research has taught me that it's very easy to learn enough martial arts to get into trouble....but very difficult to be skilled enough to get out of it. It is one of the defining goals for anyone who really wants to be self defense applicable.

***How about this observation..."not everyone is cut out to be a high Level martial artist" It's just a fact of life. Just like I have a very poor musical ear and could never play an instrument. I just accept it and move on.


Can I ask why you are asking this question when everyone should know that there is a clear separation between SELF Defense Skills and Sport.

So my point is that there isn't a need to say...." well this is kinda like that"

[sanjuro_ronin]

Quote this from SC master David C. K. Lin:

- The name of the move is not important (you may call it whatever that you want).
- There is no standard for each move (you can modify it to fit your body type).

My teacher's "front cut" was a direct vertical downward motion. David's "front cut" starts with horizontal spinning motion (he had integrated his "leg break" into his "front cut"). Both my teacher's "front cut" and David's "front cut" are equal effective in combat.

Customizing a MA to what works for you?
Go peddle crazy somewhere else, we're all stock up here !!

[TenTigers]

"So my point is that there isn't a need to say...." well this is kinda like that"

yep, and yet people often do.

My point in asking is just my own musings, I guess.
Thanx for the intelligent response. Refreshing after wading through three pages of mostly bull****.
Getting caught up on whether or not Cantonese phrases are used rather than English detracts from the point of the conversation, which is of technique, not semantics.
Unlike many non-Chinese who study TCMA, I never really put much stock in the HK Chop-socky movies, other than for entertainment value. In fact, I think the Martial Arts in most of them sucked, and the choreography was pathetic. They were certainly not my inspiration for learning Kung-Fu.
(funny, but Kato was! I was 11 yrs old at the time. Now, I watch those Green Hornet reruns, and I wonder what it was that I found so awesome. Well, compared to what everyone else was doing at the time, I guess BL had the awesome...)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think that it is very natural for us to see what we do in what others do if it kind of looks the same.
It is also very natural for what we do to look like "something" else when there is no point of reference.
Having been exposed to many MA, I see more similarities than I ever see differences.
I think that unless one has a ******* for keeping a MA so pure that it is one step removed from an immaculate conception, that differences aren't really there and that is a good thing.

[SPJ]

we may learn and keep or hone in just a few moves or techniques

and the rest is for academic interests.

do we have to practice all the techniques or all the forms all the time?

not really.

unless of course, you are linage holders and have to teach all to all.

etc etc.

:)

[ginosifu]

not quite sure how to phrase this, so bear with me..
TCMAists who fight or train fighting-MMA, etc will say that the overhand is basically cup-choy, the long hook is sow choy, jab is jik, cross is ping, uppercut is jong, or pow.
But..is it, or isn't it?
There are two ways to look at this; one could be simply justifying that they are still doing Kung-Fu, when they have actually dropped it completely, including footwork, positioning, strategies, etc. "trapping doesn't work in real time," etc..

or, they really are maintaining their art, and simply have a better understanding of how to effectively utilize their style's techniques from having used it in real time.

Is it evolution, or are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Face it, there are many people who train and TEACH TCMA-not all have actually been taught the proper method of using their techniques.

Are there subtle nuances that distinguish cup from overhead, sow from hook? Do they work, or are they dropped?

Is the moi-fa, chut-sing, kay-lun, seu bo faht, dropped, or do you use it?

I think we need to look at it a bit differently. Today's Martial Arts practitioner is not the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago. People tend to think of MA as a hobby or past time. They go to Kung Fu class or MMA gym a couple of times a week and when they go home they already forgotten anything that they have learned in class.
Modern schools including MMA and Kung Fu teach basic techniques such as Jab / Cross / Hook / Round Kick / Front Kick etc etc. But we fail to realize is these are just foundational techniques. MMA schools focus on these basic tactics and don't really move on to more complex or sophisticated techniques. However, most of the older traditional Kung Fu schools move on to the more complex techniques.

Lets give an example: HOOK PUNCH

A hook punch is a hook punch right?... NO, there are more complex versions such as in Shaolin or Monkey we have what is called "Lam Choi", Squeezing or Hugging punch. It looks something like a hook punch to the naked eye but there is a different energy in the strike if you will. Lam Choi = start off like a hook but as reach the target, whip your fist back towards yourself. This whipping or snapping energy is different than a straight hook punch.

To answer you question.... MMA guys are doing MMA stuff. There techniques not anything more than modified basics. And there overhand is not Cup Choi... it's an over hand.

ginosifu

[bawang]

Lam Choi = start off like a hook but as reach the target, whip your fist back towards yourself.
you punch yourself in the face?


MMA schools focus on these basic tactics and don't really move on to more complex or sophisticated techniques.
kung fu guys want to build a tower without the foundation. how you build the third floor without building the first floor.
*stroke beard

[ginosifu]

Bawang:



Modern schools including MMA and Kung Fu teach basic techniques such as Jab / Cross / Hook / Round Kick / Front Kick etc etc. But we fail to realize is these are just foundational techniques. MMA schools focus on these basic tactics and don't really move on to more complex or sophisticated techniques. However, most of the older traditional Kung Fu schools move on to the more complex techniques.
ginosifu

Traditional Kung Fu schools start with the basics but, move to more complex techniques. This is not to say that complex is better or worse than basic techniques.

Lam Choi is a whipping technique... sorry you don't understand it.

ginosifu

ps. Bawang... start reading better

[bawang]

u r confusing complex with convoluted. kung fu teachers like u make a tiny difference sound huge, so u can be speshul. so the student is always wrong, they can never get it right.

[YouKnowWho]

chinese boxing is inferior to western boxing.

You must be joking. I disagree with you 100% on this. I have a student who has 15 years western wrestling experience. If TCMA has nothing to offer, why did he want to come to me for? My student's comercial school also has a lot of BJJ guys who want to add some new stand up skills into their toolbox. There is nothing wrong there. Since there is no single style that contains everything, we all neeed to "cross train".

The moment that we look down upon ourselves, the moment that others will look down upon us.

[bawang]

If TCMA has nothing to offer, why did he want to come to me?

because of kung fu movies.


The moment that we look down upon ourselves, the moment that others will look down upon us.

its called humility and honesty. know when you are defeated. its important part of wude.

[YouKnowWho]

know when you are defeated.

If you beat me with

- open hand, I'll come back with knife.
- knife, I'll come back with gun.
- gun, I'll sue you.

I'll never accept "defeat".

[bawang]

if u sue me, i will the penus.

[hskwarrior]

- gun, I'll sue you.


What if he shoots you before you can sue him? :confused:

[YouKnowWho]

What if he shoots you before you can sue him? :confused:

My son will do that for me after my death.

[bawang]

your son pole dance me to dead?

[Violent Designs]

Yes and no.

Let's take sao chui traditionally.

Personally I think it is quite different. The trajectory is different and striking surface is differnet.

But wearing boxing gloves it's ****ing stupid to use a sao chui like that. You can't hurt someone as hard as if you just drive it like an overhand right.

I don't think there is a problem at all of if a technique "is" or "isn't."

I know my daisihing calls his "overhand" a sao chui.

[omarthefish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxw47TGxJ74

That is soooo not an overhand right.

You can categorize and overhand right as a "sau choi" but a classic sau choi is pretty different. The sau choi shown above has not real drive off the rear leg like an overhand right. It's a "sweeping" (hence the name) long arm strike powered by a stance shift from horse to bow and driven much more by the waist than legs.

Of course, since that's not a choi li fut fighter in the video, it's not a sau choi...that would be a "heng lei" lol. (not sure of the characters) Same **** thing when you get right down to it. Main point is, it sure as hell ain't an overhand right. ;)

[SteveLau]

The topic is a general question. Before we have got passed beyond the language barrier, and have consensus on the meaning of these techniques, we should always know what we are doing. In other words, we should know when we have deviated enough to the point that a technique or even we are not training the style of art we have been trained so far. At some points in time, we need to ask ourself is that what we want to do - to develop a new style. And we better give the question an honest answer.




Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[Frost]

I think we need to look at it a bit differently. Today's Martial Arts practitioner is not the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago. People tend to think of MA as a hobby or past time. They go to Kung Fu class or MMA gym a couple of times a week and when they go home they already forgotten anything that they have learned in class.
Modern schools including MMA and Kung Fu teach basic techniques such as Jab / Cross / Hook / Round Kick / Front Kick etc etc. But we fail to realize is these are just foundational techniques. MMA schools focus on these basic tactics and don't really move on to more complex or sophisticated techniques. ginosifu

Sorry but this is simply not true and since when does getting more complex and sophisticated mean simply adding in more technique?

what MMA does is focus on sound principles that work over and over, and rather than add more and more technique (at least in stand up) it uses timing, better mechanics and better structure to make those techniques more sophisticated and more complex...my coach can destroy good fighters just using the jab because his timing and mechanics are so much better than mine, hardly just a basic shot

Watch Anderson Silva use the same basic techniques I know, jab hook cross low round house and knee, to destroy rich Franklin twice his skills are so good it’s hard to say his timing and motion doesn’t make what he does complex or sophisticated

If you add in the clinch and the ground MMA can get complex and sophisticated very quickly, but it is still based on sound fundamentals and building on them, not adding in supplicated stuff that will never work in the majority of cases

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Sorry but this is simply not true and since when does getting more complex and sophisticated mean simply adding in more technique?

what MMA does is focus on sound principles that work over and over, and rather than add more and more technique (at least in stand up) it uses timing, better mechanics and better structure to make those techniques more sophisticated and more complex...my coach can destroy good fighters just using the jab because his timing and mechanics are so much better than mine, hardly just a basic shot

Watch Anderson Silva use the same basic techniques I know, jab hook cross low round house and knee, to destroy rich Franklin twice his skills are so good it’s hard to say his timing and motion doesn’t make what he does complex or sophisticated

If you add in the clinch and the ground MMA can get complex and sophisticated very quickly, but it is still based on sound fundamentals and building on them, not adding in supplicated stuff that will never work in the majority of cases

"I do not fear the man who knows 10,000 techniques, I fear the man who knows one technique and thrown it 10,000 times." ;)

[Frost]

You must be joking. I disagree with you 100% on this. I have a student who has 15 years western wrestling experience. If TCMA has nothing to offer, why did he want to come to me for? My student's comercial school also has a lot of BJJ guys who want to add some new stand up skills into their toolbox. There is nothing wrong there. Since there is no single style that contains everything, we all neeed to "cross train".

The moment that we look down upon ourselves, the moment that others will look down upon us.

This is not what he is saying….how many boxers do you know or thai guys that go to a TCMA school to learn more about striking….you don’t hear it a lot do you….but you hear of plenty of TCMA guys that go to boxing or thai classes….. i wonder why this is

BJJ guys learning stand up wrestling is not the same thing, it’s a hole in their game they don’t usually learn that they need to work on, you don’t see them going to you to learn china na for ground work (their world) because they have it covered

[sanjuro_ronin]

"I do not fear the man who knows 10,000 techniques, I fear the man who knows one technique and thrown it 10,000 times." ;)

Indeed.
MA are a study in simplicity.
Look over the centuries of fighting and you will see this: Basics rule.
Look over the video evidence of boxing, the various Asian MA, you name it and what do you see?
Basic rule.
Even at the highest level of elite competition, basics rule.
Number one choke - RNC
Number one hand strike - the Cross ( the hook being VERY close)
Number one leg strike - round kick
Number one throw - sweep
Number one take down - single leg

All things you learn in the first month of training in any good and complete school/gym

[bawang]

if you preach real fighting in kung fu , you need to be prapared for losing a huge number of students.

[David Jamieson]

This is not what he is saying….how many boxers do you know or thai guys that go to a TCMA school to learn more about striking….you don’t hear it a lot do you….but you hear of plenty of TCMA guys that go to boxing or thai classes….. i wonder why this is

BJJ guys learning stand up wrestling is not the same thing, it’s a hole in their game they don’t usually learn that they need to work on, you don’t see them going to you to learn china na for ground work (their world) because they have it covered

I was a boxer with a fight record BEFORE I went to study Kung Fu.

What plenty of tcmas go to boxing clubs? Or thai clubs?

That's crap and you're throwing out ideas cheaply and you have NO backup for that.

MMA vs TMA is a tired old song sung mostly by people running mma schools who want the students to come to them instead of going to tehir qigong class.lol

:rolleyes:

there's guys like that here! hhahaha

[bawang]

well, if you do qigong and dont believe in the mystical force called qi, you would just be drawing circles in the air with your hands. theres really no point paying money for that.

[David Jamieson]

well, if you do qigong and dont believe in the mystical force called qi, you would just be drawing circles in the air with your hands. theres really no point paying money for that.

lol. qi doesn't care if you believe in it or not. You suck it in, you blow it out all the same whether you wave your arms around or not.

[bawang]

so you pay hundreds of dollars for breathing really deep and making circles in the air with your hands.

[David Jamieson]

so you pay hundreds of dollars for breathing really deep and making circles in the air with your hands.

nope.

But if you would like to pay hundreds of dollars for that, you go right ahead! lol

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I think the major problem is the fact that saying TCMA is such a general statement it is hard to pinpoint. There are so many styles of Kung Fu that are so vastly different it is hard to make comparisons. The same can not be said for Muay Thai and boxing. Although each do have their own "flavor" and depending on who the trainer/coach is some differing training methods, most competitive gyms will have the same basics, the same training methods, the same sparring, ect, ect.

In Kung Fu you may have forms oriented un pressure tested type of training or you may have hard core, full contact Sanda type training. The problem in my opinion is that the second type is much harder to find than the first as it pertains to TCMA. Not so much in Muay Thai and boxing, go to about any gym and you find the hard style training described.

I'll say the same thing I have said many times before, until the day comes when Kung Fu is more about fighting and less about performance, this reputation will continue.

[SPJ]

qi gong has 2 parts

1. moving one or dong gong, generally stretching all tendons, circling hands would be "stretching" joints--

2. standing or sitting one or jin gong. stand in postures without movement.

there are also soft and hard qi gong on and on.

self strike/massage meridian points or pai da gong on and on.


for me

1 hiking 10,000 steps (5 miles) to elevation 1000 feet daily, without weights and then with weights around wrist, ankle, chest etc.

oops pimping my favorite trail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_3UDXrE3ho

2 lift weight (resistence, strength training)

3 swim

are part of my qi gong.

:)

[David Jamieson]

I think the major problem is the fact that saying TCMA is such a general statement it is hard to pinpoint. There are so many styles of Kung Fu that are so vastly different it is hard to make comparisons. The same can not be said for Muay Thai and boxing. Although each do have their own "flavor" and depending on who the trainer/coach is some differing training methods, most competitive gyms will have the same basics, the same training methods, the same sparring, ect, ect.

In Kung Fu you may have forms oriented un pressure tested type of training or you may have hard core, full contact Sanda type training. The problem in my opinion is that the second type is much harder to find than the first as it pertains to TCMA. Not so much in Muay Thai and boxing, go to about any gym and you find the hard style training described.

I'll say the same thing I have said many times before, until the day comes when Kung Fu is more about fighting and less about performance, this reputation will continue.

too much choice confuses the consumer.

TCMA has huge selection of things to do. MMA is much easier to fathom and simpler to get relatively good at in the grand scheme of things.

wu shu is much more difficult for the body to do than mere fighting. In fact, it is more towards the athleticism of gymnastics whereas core fighting is pretty simple and demands simplicity for effectiveness.

Kung Fu training is a little of column a and a little of column b in that respect. If you have a good teacher, you will learn to fight and you will learn about how that training cycle is a lot different from learning forms.

Will you want to compete? Up to you really. The great majority of people who study and practice martial arts don't get involved in fight competitions though.

Ultimately the choice is the up to the individual. I really think it's time to recognize that apples aren't oranges and put this horse to bed.

[bawang]

too much choice confuses the consumer.

TCMA has huge selection of things to do. MMA is much easier to fathom and simpler to get relatively good at in the grand scheme of things.


real kung fu is simple.

no "if"s

[SPJ]

real kung fu is simple.

no "if"s

yes directness or straightforwardness.

and yet there is profoundness or deepening depth in simplicity.

and the grace or beauty of simpleness.

:cool:

[Dragonzbane76]

and yet there is profoundness or deepening depth in simplicity.


many do not realize this until later on down the road of their journey though.

[Darthlawyer]

If you beat me with

- open hand, I'll come back with knife.
- knife, I'll come back with gun.
- gun, I'll sue you.

I'll never accept "defeat".
Just because you don't accept defeat, doesn't mean you aren't defeated. Its like an alcoholic who switches from Scotch to Brandy.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

real kung fu is simple.

no "if"s

All great fighting arts have simple basics that one can master and continue to get better at delivering with hard work and years of practice. Unfortunately the chinese martial arts got hijacked by too many scam artists and scum bags who jumped on the gravy train of taking advantage of ignorant people.

It's the same scam that has been going on since the dawn of time and will continue as long as mankind exists.

[David Jamieson]

real kung fu is simple.

no "if"s

now when did you become a deluded larper? :p

in physical combat, there are ALWAYS "ifs".

[sanjuro_ronin]

now when did you become a deluded larper? :p

in physical combat, there are ALWAYS "ifs".

In all fairness, he was talking about kung fu, not physical combat.
:D

[Lucas]

In all fairness, he was talking about kung fu, not physical combat.
:D

ouch :D ....

[SPJ]

yes any combat or melee

are random events

window of opportunity in timing and space comes and goes.

but

with practice, tactics and strategy

we may increase our winning odds

but still, one may still be beaten by a weaker opponent with a "lucky" shot.

winning and losing are common affairs of a war/fight.

--

:)