PDA

View Full Version : Re: How to build muscles / Arnold and Steroids (Attn hanky panky)



IronFist
04-18-2001, 07:33 AM
First of all, hanky panky, Arnold, as well as EVERY bodybuilder in the upper echelons of bodybuilding uses steroids. A lot of people think that Arnold is a natural, but it is just not the case. And you can't look at someone like Flex Wheeler, Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman, etc, and tell me that they don't use steroids. After a certain amount of bodybuilding, in accordnace with the law of diminishing returns, every athelete will reach his or her genetic potential, where no matter how much work one does, progress will not be made. You can talk all you want about changing up your routine, drop sets, pre-exhaustion sets, etc. but once the genetic potential is hit, the only way to grow further is by the use of drugs.

Additionally, many of the pros never come off of drugs (ie their cycle is year round). In fact, many body builders have to retire early because they've f-'ed up their system through the use of drugs. Many also experience problems with their organs, (colon, for example), because of the massive amounts of food they consume on a regular basis. Hanky, have you ever seen an (upper level) bodybuilder eat? You cannot tell me it's possible to consume the 8000-12000 calories a day required to maintain such mass without the use of steroids. Go and research the subject before you post something you know nothing about.

Just as an interesting fact to people who may not know, bodybuilders also use drugs when dieting for a contest. What? That's right. Except for contest time, most bodybuilders are overweight and marshmellow-looking. They have to be in order to add as much muscle as they do. It is impossible to add that much muscle mass without adding fat, as well. So while a BB may weigh 300 or so in the off season, he will diet down to 250 or so for a contest. Anyway, there are various drugs that can be used for this. One such drug is called DNP, which can increase your metabolism by 50% or so, resulting in excessive sweating and increased body temp. DNP used to be included in over the counter diet drugs in the 20's, but the difference between a safe dose and lethal dose is so minute it was taken off the market. Again, the proof of drugs is evident; it is not possible to naturally lose up to 80 pounds in a month or two before a contest while retaining muscle without the use of drugs.

What's that you say? Pro bodybuilders are drug tested? Don't you think that an athlete that has access to designer drugs would also have access to the latest technology in masking agents? Think about that.

Suffice to say, professional bodybuilders aren't the healthiest people in the world.

And to the person who said "do weighted situps to build ab strength." It is true that once you pass 50 or so in standard crunches you are only training endurance, but let me ask you something. What happens to your bicep when you use weight and perform sets of 8-15 on a regular basis? It gets bigger, right? Abs are no different. The "You must do high reps of situps" is an aftereffect of the "spot reduction" theory of the 70's. Abs are no different from any other muscle. If you train them with weight, they will get bigger. I'm not saying don't do this, I'm just saying that after a while your waist will actually get BIGGER from the use of weights. Think about if you would accept this before you start doing weighted situps.

Just had to vent, :)

Ironman

Valraven
04-18-2001, 06:20 PM
Who cares. Let them use all the drugs that they think they can handle.
The top guys know that they can live that lifestyle for x number of years then they retire and return to normal proportions. If they screw up and mess up their bodies in the process then its on them.
It doesn't effect my life or the world at large what-so-ever.

Lost_Disciple
04-18-2001, 06:49 PM
In the past 5 years, competitions for natural bodybuilders have become more and more popular. For the most part, these guys are on the up-and-up. When Muscle Media 2,000 came out back in 95; I think it kinda started a revolution. All of a sudden, legal products like creatine, andro, and caffeine ephedra stacks; which caused noticeable results and were (for the most part) safe. Of course, with them came GHB, which eventually became a party drug, and many states have started banning ephedrine.

My point is that you can reach a decent level without steroids. I understand that freaks like Ronnie Coleman don't occur naturally.

I'm not exactly sure who you were arguing against, I didn't read what hanky panky wrote. I just feel that bodybuilding, more specifically natural bodybuilding, is a smarter way to go about healthy fat loss- because of the amount of research and pure science behind it. Old standbyes, like "high carb, low fat, low protein, cardio till you die" programs, which caused so many people to yo-yo in weight; are now being found unreliable. I may not be shedding off the weight like before, dropping 30 pounds in a month and a half; but at least now, if I have a steak dinner, I'm not spending all week trying to shed those pounds off. I'm also not tired, sore, and overtrained all the time.

On a side note- I hit a personal record of 250g of protein yesterday, and all my meals were small, and healthy.

Thanks for letting me rant

dumog93
04-21-2001, 08:17 PM
Volraven i totally agree with you.If it doesn't affect my lifestyle or put me or others in danger i think people should be able to do anything they want.The only thing i have a problem with is people being uninformed.As long as the facts are out there with both the pros and cons attached it is up to the individual to weigh the risks and decide if it is worth the price.There are a few problems with the steroid topic.#1-the media overhypes the danger and makes it seem like eating rat poison.When someone at the gym sees that people are in fact living and ?prospering? to contradict their hype it makes them seem disreputable.#2-back to what someone else said on a different topic in this forum...the problem that most people can't say enough and will abuse a drug,thereby making the government step in and provide law where common sense should rule.#3-people using drugs as a shortcut to reach goals attainable by other means.I hate to say it,but my old dill instructor was right.We are the burger king generation.We want things our way and we want it now like a bunch of spoiled children.Rather than perfect technique,increase intensity,or just plain work harder many people will take the easier path and juice up to get their bench from 200 to 250.In closing i would like to say that i don't use steroids,but have no problem with people using them to reach a life goal or perfect their game,whatever game that is.Personally it takes me too long to adapt to extra bodyweight as it is.Some people i am sure can deal with it better,but 190lbs. is probably going to be good for me as far as a blend of speed,power,and agility in the martial arts or any other sport for that matter.

to each his own,

Devildog

SevenStar
05-01-2001, 08:59 AM
Dorian Yates uses roids??!??! ;)

lol...good post!
"Just as an interesting fact to people who may not know, bodybuilders also use drugs when dieting for a contest. What? That's right. Except for contest time, most bodybuilders are overweight and marshmellow-looking. They have to be in order to add as much muscle as they do. It is impossible to add that much muscle mass without adding fat, as well. So while a BB may weigh 300 or so in the off season, he will diet down to 250 or so for a contest."

That's very true. In the off season, BBs put on alot of weight, alot of which is fat, in order to gain mass. When competition season rolls around, they spend time sheeding fat and trying to get ripped up.

"it is not possible to naturally lose up to 80 pounds in a month or two before a contest while retaining muscle without the use of drugs."

True, true. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, HEALTHILY, you should not aim to lose any more than 3 lbs. a week. Any more than that, and you are losing muscle along with fat, which of course is not conducive to body building. To lose the amounts they lose in the time span that they do, they have to be on something. Either that, or they have the metabolism of a jack-rabbit on crack.

"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; A fool speaks because he has to say something."

Turiyan
05-07-2001, 09:23 AM
I gained 40 pounds in about 3 day on insulin, reaching, then exceeding my average weight. Putting on another 40 pounds, which puts me over 200 pounds at present.

AND i'm not even close to my old activity level due to my broken back.

Side effects: Abdominal distention. Undiagnosed, probably ascites. I have a gut as big as a woman thats 9 months pregnant.

Wait till I post me before and after pictures.
;-)

Let me also correct something said previously. Most, if not all bodybuilders HAVE used steroids. Its just that there are like 1% that have the genetics to not NEED them.

Lou ferrigno, Lee haney and Arnold all used steroids and paid because of it. Lou has hearing problems. Lee haney developed the gap between his teeth from roids (?) and arnold survives on daily kidney dialysis(sp?).

Turiyan, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan

The REAL taichi:
http://www.wfdesign.com/tc/
http://www.wustyle.com/108.html

IronFist
05-07-2001, 10:46 AM
"Let me also correct something said previously. Most, if not all bodybuilders HAVE used steroids. Its just that there are like 1% that have the genetics to not NEED them."

I gaurantee that not even 1% do not NEED them. Once they hit their genetic potential, which is far UNDER the level of pro BB competition, they must turn to steroids in order to break the genetic plateau. 100% of pros juice. Sorry, it's just the facts.

Iron

addy
05-08-2001, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Lou has hearing problems. [/quote]
Lou was BORN with those hearing problems.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> arnold survives on daily kidney dialysis [/quote]

LOL where on earth did you hear that? If that was true it would've been all over the news; kidney dialysis treatments require hours - how could he make movies doing that?

JWTAYLOR
05-09-2001, 07:18 PM
My former roomate and best friend was a professional body builder for years. He wasn't just a big guy that worked out. His job was being a body builder and getting sponsored by gyms and supliment companies. He had 30 inch thighs, and could leg press one ton. The lifestyle he lived was insane. He lived to eat. 80% of bodybuilding is what you put in your body, weather it's food, supliments, or the sauce. As far as roids, he spend the majority of his imcome on different steroids and doctors. His workouts were so intense that he had to wear a bit in his mouth because he cracked his back molars ginding his teeth.

Eventually, he lost his left testicle because 17 viens in his and abdomen ruptured. And had to quit competing. He still works out, but he has a job and a life now.

He was, and still is the first to tell you that it's as unhealthy of a lifestyle as any crack addict.

I still use him as the measuring stick for any of my technique. Josh is still an incredibly big, strong guy. If it works on Josh, it works.

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

grandfist
05-10-2001, 04:55 PM
Forget about "bodybuilding." Read Brooks Kubik's Dinosaur Training. Don't worry about the pumpers, the shapers, the toners. What you are after is functional strength. Learn the pulls, the presses, SQUATS, snatch, clean & jerk. Olympic Style Weightlifting is the ultimate way to train for athletes and people involved in dynamic sports or heavy physical activities. You will develop strength, speed, power, balance, cooradination, flexability, competitiveness and toughness. If you are willing, YOU CAN DO IT

SevenStar
05-11-2001, 10:14 AM
1.)Powerlifting does not make you "tough"
2.)Many people don't want the additional mass that powerlifting packs on. If you are going to do the powerlifting exercises with light weight so as not to gain mass, then you may as well be doing the "regular weight lifting exercises" plyometrics are awesome for building explosiveness, and general weight lifting is more than adequate for developing functional muscles. Bodybuilding is also more than adequate for building functional muscle. There is another thread on bodybuilding and funtional mass though, so I won't get into that here.

"You will develop strength, speed, power, balance, cooradination, flexability, competitiveness"

Power lifting does not make you competitive. That state of mind is determined by the lifter, not the type of lifting the lifter does. I don't powerlift, and I am competitive as hell. As for the other attributes you listed, what? you can't develop those from bodybuilding or general weightlifting? :rolleyes:

"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; A fool speaks because he has to say something."

grandfist
05-14-2001, 03:49 PM
Squeeze, accelerate, EXPLODE!
Give Olympic lifting a try. You will see an amazing benefit. BE THE BEST!
:)

grandfist
05-14-2001, 05:26 PM
When you seek nothing, you're on the Path."
-- Bodhidharma, Outline of Practice
:cool: