Nice Drill

[GlennR]

Hi All

Firstly, i reallly give a lot of cudos to Jin and his many clips.

Secondly as a WC guy and a boxer i think this is a good drill. So many WC guys and girls have issues with boxers and getting inside their range, and this is a good approach

Thought?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tie4k2d0ZSM&NR=1&feature=fvwp

GlennR

[YouKnowWho]

It's better to make contact with your leg against your opponent's leg when you step in (to build a "leg bridge").

[GlennR]

It's better to make contact with your leg against your opponent's leg when you step in (to build a "leg bridge").



He did say at the very beginiing he was focusing on arms/boxers range.

You didnt like the drill?

[YouKnowWho]

He did say at the very beginiing he was focusing on arms/boxers range.

You didnt like the drill?
He did step his front leg and passed his opponent's leading leg at 12.06 (step infront).

I don't like to move back. It's not a good combat spirit to develop.

If your opponent moves in toward you, it saves your effort to move in toward him. Your opponent is helping you to close the distance. Why do you want to move back for?

I love to use this clip to show "head on collusion". When you use spear to attack a bear, that bear may move back. When the bear attacks you, that's the best chance for you to kill that bear because you can borrow the bear's forward momentum and creat a "head on collusion".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31h5gbazwU

[GlennR]

If your opponent moves in toward you, it saves your effort to move in toward him. Your opponent is helping you to close the distance. Why do you want to move back for?

I love to use this clip to show "head on collusion". When you use spear to attack a bear, that bear may move back. When the bear attacks you, that's the best chance for you to kill that bear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31h5gbazwU



Did you watch the whole clip??

He clearly showed not to go back but to step to the side whilst maintianing a WC distance

As far as bears and Anthony Hopkins as a reference....... analogies are just rubbish in my opinion

GlennR

[YouKnowWho]

Thought?

You asked other's opinion, but when other's opinion is not what you want to hear, you call it "rubbish "? What kind of online discussion is this?

[GlennR]

You asked other's opinion, but when other's opinion is not what you want to hear, you call it "rubbish "? What kind of online discussion is this?


Sure, i asked your opinion. I dont class a film clip with a bear and an actor as an opinion

Nothing personal, but i dont find the whole anlaogy thing helpful at all. It leads (in my opinion ) to a side stepping of the subjiect at hand.

But if thats your reply... all cool , i respect that and soory if i cam across as arroagant

GlennR

[JamesC]

Glenn,

Good drill. One of the few i've seen that show Wing Chun attempting to do something that is applicable in a real fight.

I really think that boxing and Wing Chun have a lot to offer each other, especially in the footwork department. Footwork, footwork, footwork! Btw, I think proper footwork is the single most important(and most under-trained) aspect of fighting.:D

[GlennR]

Glenn,

Good drill. One of the few i've seen that show Wing Chun attempting to do something that is applicable in a real fight.

I really think that boxing and Wing Chun have a lot to offer each other, especially in the footwork department. Footwork, footwork, footwork! Btw, I think proper footwork is the single most important(and most under-trained) aspect of fighting.:D



I think you are bang on there James
Its not the punches from boxers that throw the WCers... its the footwork they utilise in delivering the punches.

Make you a bet.
The older long time WC guys wont respond to this thread.

Glennr

[JamesC]

Seriously, though, if Chunners would stop focusing SO MUCH on slapping hands away and try out some bobbing, weaving, basic head movement, and regular parrying, they would be able to enter to DRAMATIC effect on anyone, including boxers.

Instead of worrying about that hand so much, circle to their outside(like a boxer) and away from their power hand and THEN come straight in. No can defend. You'd have great structure, easily be able to trap their arm, etc. Basic boxing deals with all of this stuff quite well, but Chunners seem to be so stuck on slapping hands away that they can't simply move their head 2 inches to the left...

[GlennR]

Seriously, though, if Chunners would stop focusing SO MUCH on slapping hands away and try out some bobbing, weaving, basic head movement, and regular parrying, they would be able to enter to DRAMATIC effect on anyone, including boxers.

Instead of worrying about that hand so much, circle to their outside(like a boxer) and away from their power hand and THEN come straight in. No can defend. You'd have great structure, easily be able to trap their arm, etc. Basic boxing deals with all of this stuff quite well, but Chunners seem to be so stuck on slapping hands away that they can't simply move their head 2 inches to the left...

I agree with you to some degree but i dont think bobbing and weaving works with WC.
It challenges the structure that WC strives to maintain and the delivery of the straigfht punch will be compromised in some of the bob/weave moves.
Slapping hands happens when people focus too much on the entry and not what they should do once they have achieved that.
GlennR

[JamesC]

I agree with you to some degree but i dont think bobbing and weaving works with WC.
It challenges the structure that WC strives to maintain and the delivery of the straigfht punch will be compromised in some of the bob/weave moves.
Slapping hands happens when people focus too much on the entry and not what they should do once they have achieved that.
GlennR

Fair enough. I'm biased, so take what I say with a grain of salt, lol.

I think that head movement still allows you to keep structure, though, right?

[GlennR]

Fair enough. I'm biased, so take what I say with a grain of salt, lol.

I think that head movement still allows you to keep structure, though, right?

Oh yeh, you can still have head movenet but the bob/weave haed movement is a big step away from WC
As jin did in his clip...... just ,ove side to side

[JamesC]

I've been watching some of his other clips. I really like his approach. He sticks to traditional practices, but he still trains them in ways that make sense from a fighting point of view.

Again, i'm biased as I believe that everything should be built off of basic boxing skills, so i'm sure there are quite a few people who will disagree with me.

Really like this Jin guy though.

[wingchunIan]

total respect to this guy for all is clips. He seems like a really nice guy and a good sifu to his students. Love the way he was emphasising the need to be a good partner and develop speed etc slowly. As a drill its always good to play with the footwork as otherwise it tends to end up quite stiff and unusable. Only thing on this clip I'd disagree with is the maintaining of range outside the boxing range. It's all a matter of opinions of course but I prefer to close the range such that I move inside "boxing range" as described and into "wing chun range". Timing and angles are everything and this is a good drill (I do something similar) for developing both.

[JamesC]

total respect to this guy for all is clips. He seems like a really nice guy and a good sifu to his students. Love the way he was emphasising the need to be a good partner and develop speed etc slowly. As a drill its always good to play with the footwork as otherwise it tends to end up quite stiff and unusable. Only thing on this clip I'd disagree with is the maintaining of range outside the boxing range. It's all a matter of opinions of course but I prefer to close the range such that I move inside "boxing range" as described and into "wing chun range". Timing and angles are everything and this is a good drill (I do something similar) for developing both.

Wait! TWO reasonable Wing Chunners in ONE thread!? I'm flabbergasted. :eek:

[GlennR]

total respect to this guy for all is clips. He seems like a really nice guy and a good sifu to his students. Love the way he was emphasising the need to be a good partner and develop speed etc slowly. As a drill its always good to play with the footwork as otherwise it tends to end up quite stiff and unusable. Only thing on this clip I'd disagree with is the maintaining of range outside the boxing range. It's all a matter of opinions of course but I prefer to close the range such that I move inside "boxing range" as described and into "wing chun range". Timing and angles are everything and this is a good drill (I do something similar) for developing both.


think you missed his point Ian.
He was using a drill to acustomise the WC guy to a boxer.... get a feel fo their speed and footwork
he was (on the whole) pre-empting the bridge. So many guys say just get the bridge but its **** near impossible unless you have practised against a boxer.

]

[GlennR]

Wait! TWO reasonable Wing Chunners in ONE thread!? I'm flabbergasted. :eek:



Give me a minute ;)

[couch]

Wait! TWO reasonable Wing Chunners in ONE thread!? I'm flabbergasted. :eek:

Make it three. :)

Footwork is key - I agree.
Head/torso movement is good as well - I agree that it can be done without compromising 'structure.'
Training more for the fight is a really good point too!

Best,
CTK

[Phil Redmond]

It's better to make contact with your leg against your opponent's leg when you step in (to build a "leg bridge").
Not if your opponent is much bigger/stronger than you. You'd be fighting force against force with a larger opponent.

[GlennR]

Not if your opponent is much bigger/stronger than you. You'd be fighting force against force with a larger opponent.


My thoughts as well Phil... that can backfire.

[Sihing73]

Not if your opponent is much bigger/stronger than you. You'd be fighting force against force with a larger opponent.

Phil,

Then I guess you would never go leg to leg with anyone :D JK ;)

Actually, I would have to disagree with you here. Proper placement of the leg will allow you to use a pivot point without resulting in force to force.

Perhaps we can play around with this when we see each other again.

[k gledhill]

From WSL....regarding mobility

Someone who is looking at Ving Tsun and has not spent enough time with a teacher, proberly
will not know enough footwork. He will not understand the mobility involved in Ving Tsun, the
angles of attack, the kicks in all situations. He will therefore want to add kicks for all situations.
He will therefore want to add something else to the style that he thinks is better for the sake of
not knowing.

(Wong Shun Leung)

[YouKnowWho]

Not if your opponent is much bigger/stronger than you. You'd be fighting force against force with a larger opponent.
If you use your shin bone against your opponent's shin bone, that will be force against force. Whoever has tough shin bone will win. If you use your shin bone against the inside (or outside) of your opponent's leg, that will be a different story.

The advantage of the "leg bridge' is similiar to the advantage of the "arm bridge". Not only you can sense your opponent's legs intention, you can also take your opponent down or force him to move his leading leg back (put him in defense mode).


Proper placement of the leg will allow you to use a pivot point without resulting in force to force.
Agree!

Your knees are strong by bending forward but weak by bending sideway. If you can use your strong forward bending to against your opponent's weak sideway bending, you will have advantagre.


As far as bears and Anthony Hopkins as a reference....... analogies are just ... i dont find the whole anlaogy thing helpful at all.
For a weak person (Anthony Hopkins) to defeat a strong person (the bear), he can't always back up or dodge to the side. He needs to take advantage on his opponent's forward momentum. He has to move in at the right moment in order to cause a "head on collusion". It's a risky move but that may be the only chance he has.

To move in and punch at your opponent's face is no different from your opponent moves in and run into your punch. Whether you close the distance on your opponent, or your opponent closes the distance for you, the result is the same.

[GlennR]

For a weak person (Anthony Hopkins) to defeat a strong person (the bear), he can't always back up or dodge to the side. He needs to take advantage on his opponent's forward momentum. He has to move in at the right moment in order to cause a "head on collusion". It's a risky move but that may be the only chance he has.

.[/QUOTE]



Well why not just say that..... or better still find a vid of a small person doing what you suggest. Im not challenging your approach, i just dont see what the hopkins vid does to prove your point

GlennR

[bennyvt]

er used to do some of those footwork drills.
i found going paml to palm and keep contact while the other guy steps everywhere. gets your footwork better and you get used to not just standing in one spot. And we had the same stepping asterix on the floor at our school, very cool.

[Phil Redmond]

Seriously, though, if Chunners would stop focusing SO MUCH on slapping hands away and try out some bobbing, weaving, basic head movement, and regular parrying, they would be able to enter to DRAMATIC effect on anyone, including boxers.

Instead of worrying about that hand so much, circle to their outside(like a boxer) and away from their power hand and THEN come straight in. No can defend. You'd have great structure, easily be able to trap their arm, etc. Basic boxing deals with all of this stuff quite well, but Chunners seem to be so stuck on slapping hands away that they can't simply move their head 2 inches to the left...
I'm not in that category. :)

[Phil Redmond]

Phil,

Then I guess you would never go leg to leg with anyone :D JK ;)

Actually, I would have to disagree with you here. Proper placement of the leg will allow you to use a pivot point without resulting in force to force.

Perhaps we can play around with this when we see each other again.
Legs touching puts you in grappling range. My preference is punching range. :)

[Sihing73]

Legs touching puts you in grappling range. My preference is punching range. :)

Phil,

I prefer punching as well.

But I thought you enjoyed getting up close and personal with other guys :eek:

I even heard you had a special friend you liked to rub legs with........all in the name of better training :p :rolleyes: ;) :D :o

[Phil Redmond]

Phil,

I prefer punching as well.

But I thought you enjoyed getting up close and personal with other guys :eek:

I even heard you had a special friend you liked to rub legs with........all in the name of better training :p :rolleyes: ;) :D :o
Nice post for a moderator. . . :rolleyes: :D