Iron Palm

[Kemo Martin]

yep know what you mean.

I've got some photos that were taken at this event (will send them to you as soon as my scanner program can be mended.)

I remember my sifu telling me to look at his hands. Kind of a lesson on the detriments to practicing Iron Palm. He didn't say it was bad skill just that you get the shakes in old age.

Think he was referring to a conversation we had about brick braking and the makiwara board. His comment was that find for battle but not good if you survived into old age.

also that was an interesting article on all those new shaolin monks/teachers now in California. I remeber someone.. saying why did NYC have the monopoly on monks. Well they got their wish, now they have more than NYC:D

eric

1st real shaolin monk in america (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48246)
:D

[Dale Dugas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlqY89pkqn4

I was thinking this should be the new anthem against this mouthboxer.

It fits so well.

Kemo,

You are a coward and nothing but a mouthboxer.

[Kemo Martin]

Iron King (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3m4cypxU2I)

I like this better

[golden arhat]

who is/was your IP teacher ?

[Kemo Martin]

who is/was your IP teacher ?

OFF subject

M.E.N. Arena
action sports world championships (http://trueskater.com/Videos/VertRulestheWorld.wmv)
did you go?
:D

[Akronviper]

No, it does not need to bigger than the hand, a smaller size would be fine.
the size of bag I use has alot to do with the way the shot packs down after
it has been struck several times and a larger size bag is just easier to train on.
I have in the past used smaller bags, I just prefer this larger size.


I've been using a 15x15 bag that holds 75 lbs. Mike if your ever have a need for smaller "travel bags" and even a little bigger bag Akron Awning make like 6 sizes of lined and unlined bags always in stock and cheap.

[Piercinghammer]

Akronviper:

Thanks for that tip, You might find this interesting, the bag that I posted a picture of, was a gift years ago from a long time Ho Chun student who had left the school. I won't mention his name but you probably know of him.

The bag has meaning to me because he gave it to me and we have become such good friends over the years.


Mike Biggie

[NJM]

Iron King (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3m4cypxU2I)

I like this better

Who is your teacher?

[Piercinghammer]

NJM:
i'm not sure if you are speaking to me or not.

Here is a picture of a batch of Iron palm medicine, this formula was avalable
in the 80's. it was a favorite among the iron palm practioners here in the Akron
Ohio area. It is in my opinion very good, so I still make it for people.
just thought I would throw this out there.


thanks
Mike Biggie

[Piercinghammer]

here is a pic of some things that I have found in other Iron palm formulas over the years. everything except the gecko's and sea horses. I just like posting photo's

Mike

[Dale Dugas]

Hey I like those pangolin scales.....:D

[Mortifere]

Mortifere,

You wouldnt happen to be at Ft Gordon, would you?
Im not sure where you are but there is a fairly extensive selection of good martial arts in Atlanta and surrounding areas (although if youre at Ft Gordon you may be out of luck); you can practically take your pick of styles, gyms, etc; most of which will offer iron palm or similar regimen at some point in the training program. If you let us know where you are exactly, it may be easier to determine your best action.


Maybe the miltary has changed lots since I got out (whoa, 4 years ago now!), but Article 15 isnt usually given out for first offense unless the circumstances are serious (sunburn and accidental injury not among them). Please dont misunderstand, Im with everyone else here, training should not be undertaken lightly, but I dont believe that "motivation" a la military display of power is terribly constructive...


I'm not in Ft. Gordon. Im in Warner Robins. And yes, nowadays, you can get an article 15 for a sunburn and the like. I know cause I almost got one when initially arriving to the base after two weeks of being home. But I don't plan on being excessive with iron palm to where I would break my hand or injure myself.

[Mortifere]

Hah, that sounds familiar!! =)

I think they did that to me :D

[Mortifere]

common sense:D

here is some breaking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ZozmX6Pck

do you think he trains the "Iron Palm"????

Actually, he does. In the karate background ;)

[Drake]

I think they did that to me :D

Be at the 1SG's office at 1700...


*menacing silence*

[PlumDragon]

Nice pictures Mike...thats some "bling bling" fo sho! ;)



I'm not in Ft. Gordon. Im in Warner Robins. And yes, nowadays, you can get an article 15 for a sunburn and the like. I know cause I almost got one when initially arriving to the base after two weeks of being home. But I don't plan on being excessive with iron palm to where I would break my hand or injure myself.Interesting how things change...I guess Im glad Im not still in the military, I *love* the sun. =)

Warner Robins, thats not really close to anything, and just far enough away to be annoying, huh?
A friend of mine runs a top-notch MMA gym in Macon if you decide to go that route. If so, let me know and I will pass on the contact info to you. Ill keep my eyes open for you but if you are really set on iron palm training, you might have to make your way towards Atlanta, in which case your options drastically increase.

[Mortifere]

One of the worst things to hear.

Anyways, this thread has become a flame war and has derailed off the main subject, which is valuable information on IP training from different backgrounds.

Even so, whether he's trolling or not, disbelief doesn't compare to real results. If he says all the training is bull and you say it's not, it's not a matter of your word against his, it's a matter of your skill and accomplishments against his. Me being new to all of this, I would more likely take advice from someone with something to show, no offense. Furthermore, if these guys have been training the way they do and are as healthy as a horse, and could kill one with a simple strike, then I don't see the issue here. There are going to be variations in training and applications. The only right one is the one you feel is right for you, as long as it yields results of course. It doesnt matter how you get there, as long as you get there, and you're happy with all of it.

So, back to the topic at hand. Sorry I haven't been on. Some of you know how the military is. Exercises and all the redtape.

I believe I read somewhere that external IP is more for breaking through versus internal IP is more for selective breaking. Internal IP is supposed to be a step up from external because it is more usefull in combat because you can selectively injure organs or even the heart. The most you would get from external in a combat scenario, I would imagine, is the ability to break bones. Which is useful enough, if you're not fighting someone who's also had training and conditioning. And of course, all of this is all just my speculation, I have no data to back up or anything, just my own thoughts. Let's say you get an opening to strike the ribs . . of a very built guy. It would probably be very hard to break his ribs through all the muscle. But I suppose the advantage of internal IP is that you can bypass that by sending the force of the strike through the mass and to the point of impact that you choose. That's what I gathered anyways. Any comments on this?

[Mortifere]

Nice pictures Mike...thats some "bling bling" fo sho! ;)


Interesting how things change...I guess Im glad Im not still in the military, I *love* the sun. =)

Warner Robins, thats not really close to anything, and just far enough away to be annoying, huh?
A friend of mine runs a top-notch MMA gym in Macon if you decide to go that route. If so, let me know and I will pass on the contact info to you. Ill keep my eyes open for you but if you are really set on iron palm training, you might have to make your way towards Atlanta, in which case your options drastically increase.

I'm not so much into MMA at the moment, however I'd like to use many different aspects of the arts. But the whole atmosphere is completely different from my setting and I just wouldn't feel in place. But thank you for the option. I may take it up one day. but yeah, Warner Robins is not ideal for anything. Sigh, I wish I could have gotten what I wanted. I hate my life being volentold by the military. I'll probably use my time getting in shape and learning what I can here until I get out.

[Dale Dugas]

One of the worst things to hear.

Anyways, this thread has become a flame war and has derailed off the main subject, which is valuable information on IP training from different backgrounds.

Even so, whether he's trolling or not, disbelief doesn't compare to real results. If he says all the training is bull and you say it's not, it's not a matter of your word against his, it's a matter of your skill and accomplishments against his. Me being new to all of this, I would more likely take advice from someone with something to show, no offense. Furthermore, if these guys have been training the way they do and are as healthy as a horse, and could kill one with a simple strike, then I don't see the issue here. There are going to be variations in training and applications. The only right one is the one you feel is right for you, as long as it yields results of course. It doesnt matter how you get there, as long as you get there, and you're happy with all of it.

So, back to the topic at hand. Sorry I haven't been on. Some of you know how the military is. Exercises and all the redtape.

I believe I read somewhere that external IP is more for breaking through versus internal IP is more for selective breaking. Internal IP is supposed to be a step up from external because it is more usefull in combat because you can selectively injure organs or even the heart. The most you would get from external in a combat scenario, I would imagine, is the ability to break bones. Which is useful enough, if you're not fighting someone who's also had training and conditioning. And of course, all of this is all just my speculation, I have no data to back up or anything, just my own thoughts. Let's say you get an opening to strike the ribs . . of a very built guy. It would probably be very hard to break his ribs through all the muscle. But I suppose the advantage of internal IP is that you can bypass that by sending the force of the strike through the mass and to the point of impact that you choose. That's what I gathered anyways. Any comments on this?

If you have taken your training and done with it what you need to do, you would not have a problem with penetrating into anyone or anything.

Of course you have to train it daily and then start to learn how to use it in a more upright combat mode of movement rather than coming down and striking people on the horizontal plane.

Also I dont care about openings. I make them by striking what is in front of me and then bridging in and hit them more until they fall or they are out.

As you said, being a mouthboxer means nothing. You need to back up your claims and there are many of us who do.

[Akronviper]

Take a look at these breaks. This will show you the power one can generate through Iron Palm trainning. He is not a large man I would guess 5'8" 150 lbs so he is not muscling through the blocks.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=circle+of+life+iron+palm&search=Search

[Mortifere]

Those videos were pretty awesome. I like the idea of not having to worry about openings. I suppose I'm just used to my strikes not doing so much, especially when they are defended. That's why conditioning is so great ^_^

[Piercinghammer]

In response to Akronvipers video post

This is what I am talking about, The results that Mr: Miller exhibits are
from many years of long careful training. Although I do not know him, I know that he has used many of the same controversial training methods described here
and as you can see with better than the desired results.

Thanks for letting us have a look at that Akronviper


Mike Biggie

[sanjuro_ronin]

Take a look at these breaks. This will show you the power one can generate through Iron Palm trainning. He is not a large man I would guess 5'8" 150 lbs so he is not muscling through the blocks.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=circle+of+life+iron+palm&search=Search

Nice, thanks for that clip.
The IP clip with "Mr Swollen hand" (my name for him) from China doing that breaking competition is quite good to.

[Kemo Martin]

its just conditioning:D

the "Iron Palm" is a side effect!:mad:

lead poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Symptoms_and_effects):D
pretty easy to understand
why its so dangerous
especially when there are better ways;)

Dragula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MQW5e6KcE):D

Lead affects the peripheral and central nervous system. The most common sign of peripheral neuropathy due to chronic lead poisoning is painless wristdrop (weakness of the extensor muscles of hand) which usually develops after many weeks of exposure.



think about this
Kung Fu 101
Why do you think they call it "Iron Palm"?
do you just think it could be from the symptoms described "painless? wristdrop?"

ohh . nnnnnnnnooooooooo!!!!!!!

don't be fooled :eek:
you must change the ways of the "OLD Masters"

[sanjuro_ronin]

its just conditioning:D

the "Iron Palm" is a side effect!:mad:


Dragula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MQW5e6KcE):D

Lead affects the peripheral and central nervous system. The most common sign of peripheral neuropathy due to chronic lead poisoning is painless wristdrop (weakness of the extensor muscles of hand) which usually develops after many weeks of exposure.

What is your name and who is your teacher?
Where did you learn IP and who taught it to you?

[Dale Dugas]

its just conditioning:D

the "Iron Palm" is a side effect!:mad:


Dragula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MQW5e6KcE):D

Lead affects the peripheral and central nervous system. The most common sign of peripheral neuropathy due to chronic lead poisoning is painless wristdrop (weakness of the extensor muscles of hand) which usually develops after many weeks of exposure.


Nothing but a mouthboxer and coward

[NJM]

Why won't you tell us who your teacher is, Kemo?

[tattooedmonk]

he does not want us to know or does not have one.

[tattooedmonk]

As you say it is just conditioning, but what are your methods and understanding of this practice??As you have already stated you believe in Qi , but what is your understanding of the concept of Qi and how does it play into your methods of Kung Fu and Iron Palm??

Please be specific.

[Dale Dugas]

It seems to only open his mouth and critique rather than come out with actual facts about Itself.

Yep, Its an it until it proves its human.

It is a coward and seems only able to mouthbox and click on emoticons.

So we should ask how an it can be taught anything as an it doesnt exist

[Mortifere]

It's not just conditioning. Iron Palm is a skill. Being able to send precise amounts of force through an object is more than just conditioning. Furthermore, while I haven't delved into the realm of Qi, there are many feats and a history to substantiate more than what you discredit. Therefore, it's not impossible nor unlikely that these techniques use more than just the body and the conditioning of it, and that goes for outside of Iron Palm as well.

[Kemo Martin]

It's not just conditioning. Iron Palm is a skill. Being able to send precise amounts of force through an object is more than just conditioning. Furthermore, while I haven't delved into the realm of Qi, there are many feats and a history to substantiate more than what you discredit. Therefore, it's not impossible nor unlikely that these techniques use more than just the body and the conditioning of it, and that goes for outside of Iron Palm as well.


More moving the CHi, huh!@
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha haahah

if you move the Chi then why train the hand?:D
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaahaha hahaah

[sanjuro_ronin]

More moving the CHi, huh!@
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha haahah

if you move the Chi then why train the hand?:D
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaahaha hahaah

Did he say anything about "moving chi" ?
No, you did.

Who are you?
Who is/was your IP teacher?

On a side note, after your display on the olympic wushu thread I doubt that anyone takes you seriously at all, but I for one would love to know where you got these "views" about IP, so I ask again, who are you and who was/is your IP teacher?

[Mortifere]

You see, Kemo, you are trying to nitpick into details (which aren't even being said) to try and detract from the main argument. Your trying to make everyone focus on some stupid sentence or another and getting off track. Not to mention, I don't see why you came into my thread to be controversial trying to enlighten someone. You are like someone of one religion bashing someone else's faith on another. By now, you should have realized your wasting your breath. You're not taking anyone seriously and personally I think you are completely immature. Your lack of your own information backed up by proof makes you useless to even argue the point on this thread. You'd do better shouting nonsense on an online video game, like all other annoying little kids do. If you think IP is only about conditioning, go ahead and train the way you think, and go up against a master. I'd love to see the outcome. That'd be youtube material.

[Dale Dugas]

Kemo has neither the skills nor the spine to ever even show his face to any of the old school trained Iron Palm people.

Mouthboxers such as Kemo do nothing but detract from the purpose of this forum to help others down the path.

I invite you Kemo and your teacher, to come visit me here in Boston to witness how Iron Palm carries over to combat applications.

Again too bad you do not step up.

[Kemo Martin]

just post a video!:D

[Dale Dugas]

It's not just conditioning. Iron Palm is a skill. Being able to send precise amounts of force through an object is more than just conditioning. Furthermore, while I haven't delved into the realm of Qi, there are many feats and a history to substantiate more than what you discredit. Therefore, it's not impossible nor unlikely that these techniques use more than just the body and the conditioning of it, and that goes for outside of Iron Palm as well.


it is a skill that has been slowly dying out over the years as you have to spend some serious time doing the corrrect training.

I train this skill daily and it eats at your time.

Luckily my wife does not mind as long as I get in some quality time with her.

[Akronviper]

The conditioning is secondary. I used to think that all you did was conditioned the hand but after learning it, there is some conditioning happening but not as much as you would think. It more of a exercise of power development and application. My hand has some conditioning but is still as sensitive to touch as before.

[tattooedmonk]

As you say it is just conditioning, but what are your methods and understanding of this practice??As you have already stated you believe in Qi , but what is your understanding of the concept of Qi and how does it play into your methods of Kung Fu and Iron Palm??

Please be specific. I WOULD LIKE THESE QUESTIONS ANSWERED, PLEASE.

[tattooedmonk]

The conditioning is how you achieve it , the skill is in how you use it.:D:cool:

[Akronviper]

The conditioning is how you achieve it , the skill is in how you use it.:D:cool:

Conditioning looks like elephant man, The skill is what you learn and how you use it is a result of what you learned. (profound symantics)


A brief history it touches on why conditioning and elephant hand man are not perfered

"Iron Palm

To my knowledge, there really aren't any reliable records that can tell us exactly when this type of training began.

I have been told that it started in a very crude way, over one thousand years ago. Like all of the ancient forms of martial arts, it progressed along with everything else.

In the beginning it was just being able to condition the hand in order to make it a more formidable weapon. Similar to Karate's striking Makewara posts.
At some time, with the help of Taoist monks, herbal medicines were developed to protect and condition the hand during training. The hand became callused, disfigured, and was easily identified by one's opponent, putting him at a disadvantage.

There have been many fairy tales as to the early capabilities of this training, but it mostly depended on the individual's own strength. In its adolescence, due to the fact that only military were taught martial arts, a tremendous amount of soldiers were trained and practiced at the same time.

Eventually, it was discovered that the soldiers were relying on the hand training and losing the techniques and skills that the martial arts supplied. Therefore, they were being defeated in hand-to-hand combat. Thus, Iron Palm was dropped from the required training for all the military.

It was not forgotten, but was refined by but a few until we have what has been taught for at least 150 years. Disfiguring the hand became unknown and was not detectable any longer."

[sanjuro_ronin]

The physical changes in the bone density can be described in comparison to what happens to the bones in the feet of a bare foot distance runner compared to one that runs with the correct shoes.
That is the anatomical change that happens to the bones.

[Kemo Martin]

The bone strengthening benefits of exercise are site-specific. Only the specific areas where muscles tug at bones or where weight-bearing impact is applied will get stronger. In sports where one limb is used more than the other, the weight-loaded extremity has a higher bone density than the other.:D

[tattooedmonk]

The bone strengthening benefits of exercise are site-specific. Only the specific areas where muscles tug at bones or where weight-bearing impact is applied will get stronger. In sports where one limb is used more than the other, the weight-loaded extremity has a higher bone density than the other.:D This is true, but with proper training no athlete should be oneside dominate or have a weakside.This would mean an imbalance within the kinetic chain,which means improper structural alignment, improper muscles firing,lack of neuromuscular efficiency, etc.

So are you going to explain your routine and tell us how qi plays into it, or any of the other questions you are being asked but seem to avoid??

[sanjuro_ronin]

The bone strengthening benefits of exercise are site-specific. Only the specific areas where muscles tug at bones or where weight-bearing impact is applied will get stronger. In sports where one limb is used more than the other, the weight-loaded extremity has a higher bone density than the other.:D

And rain is wet.
Your point?

[tattooedmonk]

People that do the same thing over and over and expect different results are insane. :D

[NJM]

This thread should be locked; Kemo is a troll.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Other than Crotcho, there is some good stuff here and maybe more will be added, don't know if locking is the best thing.
Its pretty clear that Crotcho is trolling probably gotta harlot slapped and needs to take it out on all the IP guys out there.

[Kemo Martin]

Remember it is only my opinion!:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Remember it is only my opinion!:D

Its actually far less than that.

[Kemo Martin]

I'm sure your opinion is yours!:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

where are our answers??

[Mortifere]

Aye Kemo. But your opinion is respected when you don't respect other's opinions, only to use sarcastic comebacks. Since you already expressed your opinion with nothing to back it up and you're just sitting around using random things to throw the thread off, then it would be appropriate that you go to a thread where someone shares your views. Obviously, no one does here, so that means you're just here to troll and not express your opinion.

[Kemo Martin]

you don't think lead poisoning is important,:rolleyes:
but someone else might!

[Akronviper]

Only thing dangerous about Iron Palmis one of us smacking this fool :D

[Mortifere]

See what I mean. You're using one lousy detail to distract from the main point. You don't even have a rebuttal for anything Ive said. But as for mine, yes lead is dangerous, but you can train hitting a can of nuclear waste so long as it stays in the box (not literally, but you get my point, I hope). Physically speaking, if it's sealed, then the only one crying about it is you. But I know you're just using that as a way to troll.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Only thing dangerous about Iron Palmis one of us smacking this fool :D

LMAO !!!
:D

[Kemo Martin]

well as disagreeable and insulting as You may be
ignorance is NOT an excuse

if you were teaching others or recommending the use of LEAD.

my opinion is that you would be entirely open for
civil and possible criminal charges.:D

A single high, toxic dose of lead can cause severe emergency symptoms. However, it is more common for lead poisoning to build up slowly over time. This occurs from repeated exposure to small amounts of lead. In this case, there may not be any obvious symptoms, but the lead can still cause serious health problems over time

Plus
Its really just conditioning
no secret, no special formula
no super power


but of course , again its just My opinion


The possible health problems get worse as the level of lead in the blood gets higher. Possible complications include:

* Reduced IQ
* Slowed body growth
* Hearing problems
* Behavior or attention problems
* Failure at school
* Kidney damage

The symptoms of lead poisoning may include:

* Irritability
* Aggressive behavior
* Low appetite and energy
* Difficulty sleeping
* Headaches
* Reduced sensations
* Loss of previous developmental skills (in young children)
* Anemia
* Constipation
* Abdominal pain and cramping (usually the first sign of a high, toxic dose of lead poison)
* Very high levels may cause vomiting, staggering gait, muscle weakness, seizures, or coma

[Mortifere]

But there are those that even train without the use of lead. What's your point. And no one mentioned secret powers or formulas. There's nothing secret about them, it's all out in the open. And it's not just conditioning. You can condition your hands and feet all day long but they're useless if you don't know how to use them. You're drawing abstract conclusions from I don't know where, cause you keep saying alot of crap that no one has even talked about. And your only argument is lead. How genius of you. You even troll like a noob.

[Baqualin]

These trolls are idiots...egnore them...quite feeding them and they will go away...just like stray dogs:)

[sanjuro_ronin]

well as disagreeable and insulting as You may be
ignorance is NOT an excuse

if you were teaching others or recommending the use of LEAD.

my opinion is that you would be entirely open for
civil and possible criminal charges.:D

A single high, toxic dose of lead can cause severe emergency symptoms. However, it is more common for lead poisoning to build up slowly over time. This occurs from repeated exposure to small amounts of lead. In this case, there may not be any obvious symptoms, but the lead can still cause serious health problems over time

Plus
Its really just conditioning
no secret, no special formula
no super power


but of course , again its just My opinion


The possible health problems get worse as the level of lead in the blood gets higher. Possible complications include:

* Reduced IQ
* Slowed body growth
* Hearing problems
* Behavior or attention problems
* Failure at school
* Kidney damage

The symptoms of lead poisoning may include:

* Irritability
* Aggressive behavior
* Low appetite and energy
* Difficulty sleeping
* Headaches
* Reduced sensations
* Loss of previous developmental skills (in young children)
* Anemia
* Constipation
* Abdominal pain and cramping (usually the first sign of a high, toxic dose of lead poison)
* Very high levels may cause vomiting, staggering gait, muscle weakness, seizures, or coma

There you go again.
Show me where lead gets though PVC ?
And also, steel shot is acceptable, where did anyone say it wasn't ??
Probably easier to get too and cheaper.

[Kemo Martin]

for DALE (http://www.mass.gov/Eeohhs2/docs/dph/environmental/lead/1054601.pdf):D

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=765

My personal views and experiences with IP Training.

[Kemo Martin]

Exactly what I mean.
You would think that a professional would KNow and relate the Dangers of LEAD Poisoning , huh?

from your link....................:(

"I was supplied a bag to be filled with the suggested filling..........."

2 years training........... check your BLOOD for Lead exposure.

sounds pretty easy to see liability for ME.:mad:

of course thats just MY Opinion




:(

[sanjuro_ronin]

Exactly what I mean.
You would think that a professional would KNow and relate the Dangers of LEAD Poisoning , huh?

from your link....................:(

"I was supplied a bag to be filled with the suggested filling..........."

2 years training........... check your BLOOD for Lead exposure.

sounds pretty easy to see liability for ME.:mad:

of course thats just MY Opinion




:(

And what makes you think I haven't?
:D

The supplied bag was checked out, the heavy duty canvas AND the PVC lining was checked out thoughly.
Seriously, what makes you think your concerns are new ??

[Kemo Martin]

wheres the Video:D

plus, it's just My Opinion that...........
you would NOT have.................



since you don't believe or are unaware that it's a possible Problem.............:cool:

:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

wheres the Video:D

plus, it's just My Opinion that...........
you would NOT have.................



since you don't believe or are unaware that it's a possible Problem.............:cool:

:D

The only one that sees that is you, its been made clear over and over, you seem to not be understanding, maybe you have lead poisoning :eek:

[Kemo Martin]

I couldn't find reviews, testimonials, or any other credibility that will assure safe and authentic training. With something like iron palm, I don't want to risk damaging my hands, so Im doing extensive research to not only get the safest training, but getting my money's worth.

Any suggestions on kits or overall iron palm training is appreciated. Thank you.


My suggestion IS!
DON'T USE LEAD!


Just trying to HELP:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

keeping this simple and "noise free":

Lead is the ideal medium IF you have the correct bag - Heavy canvas, PVC lined.
If anyone feels they have issues with lead, they can use steel shot.
The "IP medicine" is crucial, only someone with no clue with say it isn't, its a night and day thing, its just that simple.
Do NOT hit full force, that is what the HB is for, not the IP bag.
What strikes you use is dependant on your chosen MA, but the min is 4 different types.
Do NOT follow Kemo's routine.

[Kemo Martin]

I'm Not trying to SELL anyone my"Supplies", "Routine" or "Medicine" either!


:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm Not trying to SELL anyone my"Supplies", "Routine" or "Medicine" either!


:D

How could you? you don't train IP, you don't have a teacher of IP, you don't know what the "jow" is.

[Kemo Martin]

You mean "SUI":D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm a troll and have nothing to offer :D

You got that right.

[Akronviper]

Exactly what I mean.
You would think that a professional would KNow and relate the Dangers of LEAD Poisoning , huh?

from your link....................:(

"I was supplied a bag to be filled with the suggested filling..........."

2 years training........... check your BLOOD for Lead exposure.

sounds pretty easy to see liability for ME.:mad:

of course thats just MY Opinion

:(

Due to my work a project I was overseeing had some lead expousure. all people were made to have a blood test before and after the project to prevent expousure issues. 3 months ago I had trace amounts of lead. yesterday I have trace amounts. expousre over 50 (dont know the units) is hazerdous. 4 years of hitting a sealed lead bag still trace amounts. Sounds good to me.

Forget the lead lets get back to the topic. If I used mung beans how is your method benificial, what results would I see, where you learn this, how long have you trained MA and IP.

The lead stuff has been beaten to death if you don't know lead is bad by now and or you don't care so be it lets talk about the training its self and allow other people to use the medium of their choice.

[Kemo Martin]

I never said ...................Mung Beans

what is your blood level
since you had it tested?



:confused:

[Akronviper]

I never said ...................Mung Beans

what is your blood level
since you had it tested?

:confused:

You may not of said mung beans thats just an example.

as I said in my post, yesterday the levels were trace which they said (since I asked due to this topic) trace is anything below one. Any thing over 50 was dangerous exposure regardless if your base line was at 1 or 49

[Kemo Martin]

trace is anything below one.
Any thing over 50 was dangerous exposure regardless if your base line was at 1 or 49

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states that a

BLL of 10 μg/dL or above is a cause for concern.

However, lead can impair development even at BLLs below 10 μg/dL


However, BLL measures current exposure to lead, but lead may also be incorporated into bone from prior exposures that will not show in BLLs until this bone-lead becomes "mobilized" during fracture healing



you don't have a precise measurement available?


but you do show exposure....

I would quit using the LEAD.............if I were you!:(

[sanjuro_ronin]

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states that a

BLL of 10 μg/dL or above is a cause for concern.

However, lead can impair development even at BLLs below 10 μg/dL


However, BLL measures current exposure to lead, but lead may also be incorporated into bone from prior exposures that will not show in BLLs until this bone-lead becomes "mobilized" during fracture healing



you don't have a precise measurement available?


but you do show exposure....

I would quit using the LEAD.............if I were you!:(

Did you read what he posted ????

[Kemo Martin]

Did you read what he posted ????

Yes, your point?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Due to my work a project I was overseeing had some lead expousure.

That is my point, Asswipe.

[tattooedmonk]

My suggestion IS!
DON'T USE LEAD!


Just trying to HELP:DFair enough. I do not practice with lead because of these same concerns , I also understand how and why it is that others feel they have protected themselves from this type of exposure.

Besides this what do you have to say about this topic?? Why do you believe there is no method or formula for doing this type of practice or conditioning? Do you just punch and kick and slam different parts of your body against anything?

From your behavior patterns here it appears that you are the one suffering from lead poisoning .:D;) You must realized that you have shown well over half a dozen of the symptoms you have posted.

Now where do you go??

We have cleared the air about the lead. I do not want to see another post about the lead exposure it already has been done to death.

Do you have anything worth while to say about Irom Palm?? If not, go F#ck yourself!!:cool:

[Kemo Martin]

Fair enough. I do not practice with lead because of these same concerns
:cool:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Besides this what do you have to say about this topic??:confused:
you shuld read all my post on this topic..........


Why do you believe there is no method or formula for doing this type of practice or conditioning?:confused:
I do believe in conditioning:D

Do you just punch and kick and slam different parts of your body against anything? :confused:
I guess YOU could........................

Now where do you go??:confused:
wherever I want!:D


We have cleared the air about the lead. :eek:
I would HOPE so..................


Do you have anything worth while to say about Irom Palm??:confused:
Only if you would consider MY Opinion!
:cool:

[IronWeasel]

I don't want to encourage any trolling, but for discussion...

I have heard:

1) don't use lead because of the exposure risk
2) use a progression of materials (mung, gravel, iron...etc)
3) use Iron, as it is said to be in "ingredient" to the process, supplementary to the IP medicine.


So...Piercinghammer: how often do you check your bag for signs of damagfe to the lining (and for that matter, where is it lined? Inside or outside?)


And...Sanjuro Ronin: I read your IP experience...very objective. BTW, when was the last time you talked to Steve Hamp? He seemed to fall off the earth a while ago.

[tattooedmonk]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Besides this what do you have to say about this topic??:confused:
you shuld read all my post on this topic..........


Why do you believe there is no method or formula for doing this type of practice or conditioning?:confused:
I do believe in conditioning:D

Do you just punch and kick and slam different parts of your body against anything? :confused:
I guess YOU could........................

Now where do you go??:confused:
wherever I want!:D


We have cleared the air about the lead. :eek:
I would HOPE so..................


Do you have anything worth while to say about Irom Palm??:confused:
Only if you would consider MY Opinion!
:cool:I read all of them but you keep talking about the lead ...we get it!!!

With conditioning there must be a method or a formula ...what is yours?

Are you really this stupid that you can not read a whole post, in it's entirety, and respond accordingly??

I have considered your opinion , moron.

[tattooedmonk]

I don't want to encourage any trolling, but for discussion...

I have heard:

1) don't use lead because of the exposure risk
2) use a progression of materials (mung, gravel, iron...etc)
3) use Iron, as it is said to be in "ingredient" to the process, supplementary to the IP medicine.


So...Piercinghammer: how often do you check your bag for signs of damagfe to the lining (and for that matter, where is it lined? Inside or outside?)


And...Sanjuro Ronin: I read your IP experience...very objective. BTW, when was the last time you talked to Steve Hamp? He seemed to fall off the earth a while ago.EXACTLY!!

the one I have is lined on the inside.

[Mortifere]

No one takes your opinions seriously Kemo because your responses have been sarcastic attempts for comebacks with no intelligence value. Instead of saying,

"THE SECRET WAYS ARE SO WACK IT CANT BE . . . YOUR DELUSIONAL . . . . . . . . . .HAHA MORONS . . HAHA HAHA . . . (Ok, seriously, enough with the dots, and learn to finish sentences like someone who went to school).

How about you give it some thought and say, "Well, I believe that this is false because <INSERT PROOF, DATA, OR HYPOTHESIS HERE>.

Maybe then, you'd have something to offer this thread. Which in reality, isn't what this thread is about. It would be great, Kemo, if you go make a thread, titled, I don't know, Controversial Training or The Dangers of Training. Do something CONSTRUCTIVE.

[Kemo Martin]

my constructive criticism:eek:

seams to be destructive................................. for some,........ oh well!
:cool:

it's just conditioning!

[Mortifere]

There's nothing constructive about your criticism, go back to school.

And it's not just conditioning. What, no skill in the application? No muscle memory? No technique for conditioning the right way? This is what separates the nubs from someone who actually cares.

[Drake]

I must say... Kemo is really milking the passion out of you guys.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't want to encourage any trolling, but for discussion...

I have heard:

1) don't use lead because of the exposure risk
2) use a progression of materials (mung, gravel, iron...etc)
3) use Iron, as it is said to be in "ingredient" to the process, supplementary to the IP medicine.


So...Piercinghammer: how often do you check your bag for signs of damagfe to the lining (and for that matter, where is it lined? Inside or outside?)


And...Sanjuro Ronin: I read your IP experience...very objective. BTW, when was the last time you talked to Steve Hamp? He seemed to fall off the earth a while ago.

Steve has had some personal issues to take care of.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I must say... Kemo is really milking the passion out of you guys.

That sounds gayer than greco-roman wrestling !
:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have an 11: 30 appointment at the doctors today.
I was up for a physical and decided that I would get my lead levels checked out to lay some concerns to rest.

Those of you who read my thread about IP on truthmartialarts.org know that I am unbias on this matter, I owe no "aligence" to any system or person and I started IP as a "scientific experiment" for myself and that forum ( how many other forums do that?).
I will keep everyone posted.
:D

[Kemo Martin]

I have an 11: 30 appointment at the doctors today.
I was up for a physical and decided that I would get my lead levels checked out to lay some concerns to rest.

Those of you who read my thread about IP on truthmartialarts.org know that I am unbias on this matter, I owe no "aligence" to any system or person and I started IP as a "scientific experiment" for myself and that forum ( how many other forums do that?).
I will keep everyone posted.
:D


Thats smart. good luck!:D

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states that a

BLL of 10 μg/dL or above is a cause for concern.
However, lead can impair development even at BLLs below 10 μg/dL

However, BLL measures current exposure to lead, but lead may also be incorporated into bone from prior exposures that will not show in BLLs until this bone-lead becomes "mobilized" during fracture healing

ask your Doctor about your use of LEAD, whats HIS professional Opininon.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Thats smart. good luck!:D

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states that a

BLL of 10 μg/dL or above is a cause for concern.
However, lead can impair development even at BLLs below 10 μg/dL

However, BLL measures current exposure to lead, but lead may also be incorporated into bone from prior exposures that will not show in BLLs until this bone-lead becomes "mobilized" during fracture healing

ask your Doctor about your use of LEAD, whats HIS professional Opininon.

Dude, I did that BEFORE I started the IP, even showed him the bag and stuff, even the ingredients in the Jow.
He's been my doc for ages, every time I make a change in my training regime I run it by him.
He sens my to specialists when its "out of his range".
Ah, the benefits of health care AND a great health plan :D

[Kemo Martin]

Dude, I did that BEFORE I started the IP, even showed him the bag and stuff, even the ingredients in the Jow.
He's been my doc for ages, every time I make a change in my training regime I run it by him.
He sens my to specialists when its "out of his range".
Ah, the benefits of health care AND a great health plan :D


You told him that you were going to use LEAD?:confused:
Diagnostic Tests (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/lead/pbtests_diagnosis2.html)

[tattooedmonk]

IT'S JUST CONDITIONING.:rolleyes::eek:

SO THERE IS NOT ANY SKILL OR METHOD OR FORMULA , IT'S JUST CONDITIONING???ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT THERE IS NO LEAD IN THE TRAINING MATERIALS!!?!?!?


*** SHAKES HEAD SIDE TO SIDE ***:rolleyes::confused:

[sanjuro_ronin]

You told him that you were going to use LEAD?:confused:
Diagnostic Tests (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/lead/pbtests_diagnosis2.html)

Yes.
Even for a troll you are kind of, well, dense.

[Drake]

Kemo has a captive audience

[Kemo Martin]

your doctor said it was OK to use LEAD?:eek:
i don't believe that......................

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kemo has a captive audience

His issues in regards to lead are well founded, even if he is not paying attention to the replies.
I am sure others have concerns so this is more about them than him.

[sanjuro_ronin]

your doctor said it was OK to use LEAD?:eek:
i don't believe that......................

I know you don't, because your don't pay attention to anythign said in this thread except for your own posts.
You have zero credibility here.

[Drake]

His issues in regards to lead are well founded, even if he is not paying attention to the replies.
I am sure others have concerns so this is more about them than him.

But it does seem he is more concerned about antagonizing these folks than educating them...

[sanjuro_ronin]

But it does seem he is more concerned about antagonizing these folks than educating them...

Yes, that and the fact that he posted no info in regards to himself, his IP training or his teacher, demonstrates his lack of credibility.
Nevertheless, issues were brought up and shoudl be addressed.

[Kemo Martin]

what would my credibility have to do with the Properties of LEAD.
to me the lack of acknowledging the Dangers of LEAD
shows ignorance amid antagonized egos.


my training is for me:D

I posted my recommended training for the beginner to advanced..........

I like the Herbs but it's NOT some secret potion.

Concerning "essence" or CHI or "internal"
I would suggest first learn to "read the rule of the 6 Hieroglyphs"

Concerning application.
"you can't be careful, only lucky":D

who was it that said :confused:
You are what you repeatedly do, Excellence is Not an act but a HABIT.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I posted my recommended training for the beginner to advanced..........

Your routine shows how little you understand if IP.


I like the Herbs but it's NOT some secret potion.


Its been stated before that it is not secret, please read all posts.


Concerning "essence" or CHI or "internal"
I would suggest first learn to "read the rule of the 6 Hieroglyphs"

Concerning application.
"you can't be careful, only lucky"

who was it that said
You are what you repeatedly do, Excellence is Not an act but a HABIT.

Again you show your lack of understanding and as such, your lack of credibility in regards to IP training.

[SIFU RON]

Ronin is 100% correct on this one.

This subject is often taken lightly and misunderstood. Times are changing and many of the old TMA ways are being left behind.

[Kemo Martin]

Ooooooooooooooo.K. if YOU say so...........................:D
but then again I don't need your approval do I

but remember
I think the word "IRON PALM" describes the poisonous effect
from training with LEAD:mad:




:D

[Drake]

ok ok ok.... we understand

lead=bad

But we also have testimony from those who are aware of this and thus make sure they are not exposed to it by thoroughly inspecting their bags.

ergo... sealed lead=not bad

Can we put this to rest now?

I must admit, reading this has actually gotten me a bit interested in IP.

[Piercinghammer]

Steve Hamp is doing well and getting squared away with things.

Mike Biggie

[sanjuro_ronin]

Steve Hamp is doing well and getting squared away with things.

Mike Biggie

Good to hear :D

[Kemo Martin]

see thats the PROBLEM
"sealed" back is BS
:(

like anyone using LEAD would have enough sense to "know they didn't eat it"




:(

[sanjuro_ronin]

see thats the PROBLEM
"sealed" back is BS
:(

like anyone using LEAD would have enough sense to "know they didn't eat it"




:(

Please enlighten us, especially since you didn't even KNOW that the bags were supposed to be sealed.

[Kemo Martin]

I'm saying that they are not sealed
you think they are!:(

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm saying that they are not sealed
you think they are!:(

You sir, are an idiot.
I have never said that to anyone on any forum, ever, congrats on your acheivment.

[Drake]

I'm saying that they are not sealed
you think they are!:(

Ok...I'll bite, because this thread is fun...

How are the bags not sealed?

*breaks out old college chemistry book in case Kemo tries getting technical*

[Kemo Martin]

of course that is just your opinion sronin:D

and yes this thread is Fun!





Let me imagine.......................................

O.K.............take a thin piece of rubber...............
beat on it for a length of time......................
between a hard surface and an abrasive surface..


and expect a VERY Toxic chemical to NOT leak

don't need the college books for that one:D

hahahahaahahahahaahahahahahaahah..............:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

of course that is just your opinion sronin:D

and yes this thread is Fun!





Let me imagine.......................................

O.K.............take a thin piece of rubber...............
beat on it for a length of time......................
between a hard surface and an abrasive surface..


and expect a VERY Toxic chemical to NOT leak

don't need the college books for that one:D

hahahahaahahahahaahahahahahaahah..............:D

Dumbest post I have read in a long time.

[Kemo Martin]

I agree
but I was hoping YOU
could understand it:eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree
but I was hoping YOU
could understand it:eek:

That's it?

The quality of trolls is getting more and more pathetic.

Lack of chi.

[Kemo Martin]

what point are you trying to make:confused:

[sanjuro_ronin]

what point are you trying to make:confused:

That your troll-fu needs work and it's probably due to the lack of chi.
:D

[Kemo Martin]

what is troll-fu:confused:

[sanjuro_ronin]

I put on women's clothing and pick up men in bars

:eek:
Dude....that will not get your chi up and running !

[Kemo Martin]

oh ..........I see YOU just talk K.R.A.P., huh?:(

"not my cup of CHI"


well I'm trying to not make any derogatory statements:D
I feel I'm bringing a very important aspect of the topic into discussion:cool:

it seems the LEADers, want to think they have something special!:eek:
when i say it's poison,
it looks like the vulgar, the arrogant, the bullies get their panties twisted

there are much better things to train than "LEAD Poisoning" for your protection

[sanjuro_ronin]

oh ..........I see YOU just talk K.R.A.P., huh?:(

"not my cup of CHI"


well I'm trying to not make any derogatory statements:D
I feel I'm bringing a very important aspect of the topic into discussion:cool:

it seems the LEADers, want to think they have something special!:eek:
when i say it's poison,
it looks like the vulgar, the arrogant, the bullies get their panties twisted

there are much better things to train than "LEAD Poisoning" for your protection

So typical of a troll....
I guess we have to go back to the beginning eh?
Who are you?
Who is/was your IP teacher?

[Kemo Martin]

:D:mad::D:mad::D:mad:

why do you care?

[sanjuro_ronin]

:D:mad::D:mad::D:mad:

why do you care?

How the heck are we gonna stalk you if we don't know who you are ???
Kids...

[Mortifere]

I thought we dismissed the discussion of lead like three pages ago. Do you have anything else to offer Kemo?

[Kemo Martin]

Plenty,

what else do you want?:confused:

:D

[HOKPAIWES]

Plenty,

what else do you want?:confused:

:D


We wanna see some video of YOUR iron palm in action!!

[Kemo Martin]

don't have any

[HOKPAIWES]

don't have any


Make one, we only need to see you in action for a min or two.

[Drake]

I'm surprised nobody even asked this yet... but seeing as IP has been around for a while now, has there ever even been a case of lead poisoning from this?

[tattooedmonk]

don't have any......someone of your superior knowledge and conditioning must have access to a camera?? And of course, because of the wealth of knowledge that you have and your great degree of conditioning you must be really proud of yourself, right?? So, certainly you will be more than happy to tape some of this for us and post it on the net, won't you??







PLEASE??!!






















OH Pretty Please:eek::rolleyes::mad:;):D!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? !

[Kemo Martin]

thats why the training is considered "secret"

because its training exposed its practitioners to LEAD
resulting in

The most common sign of peripheral neuropathy due to chronic lead poisoning is the painless wristdrop


or "IRON PALM"

but that was the "Old Ways"






no one does thats silly stuff anymore, right!








someone said they were doing an article for publication?

I would sure like to see a study of actual test results!

and someone said they had "Trace" amounts in their test!:(
theres a start........................



its just not necessary.




:D

[IronWeasel]

don't have any




As in: Don't have any Iron Palm.

[IronWeasel]

Steve Hamp is doing well and getting squared away with things.

Mike Biggie



Glad to hear that.

[Kemo Martin]

NO "IRON PALM" for me.:eek:

[IronWeasel]

NO "IRON PALM" for me.:eek:



Got palm?









............................

[Kemo Martin]

:D.:D.:D
:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

NO "IRON PALM" for me.:eek:Figures.......

[Kemo Martin]

I think.......
IRON Palm is a Malady...........

not something I want:D
go figure:cool:

[Drake]

I think.......
IRON Palm is a Malady...........

not something I want:D
go figure:cool:

Kemo... do you live in Europe too... or do you just stay up late?

[Kemo Martin]

Kemo... do you live in Europe too... or do you just stay up late?


No I don't live in Europe, but I have been there several times.
right now it's early (-6 GMT) in the USA.



........."wise old man"

"if you're not in bed by 10, you might as well go home"

:D

[IronWeasel]

What are the reasons for only training one hand vs training both hands in Iron Palm?

[bawang]

sometimes you train the left hand because it's not your main hand so you dont abuse it. one hand trains faster and harder too. this is for all kinds of hand conditioning not just iron palm

[Kemo Martin]

"Iron Palm" training is trying to turn a hand into a "hammer".

I think,.....
most did not want to "ruin" the use of both their hands,
so they would Not train their dominant Hand.







for fighting though,
you should "condition" the whole body.

:D

[NJM]

"Iron Palm" training is trying to turn a hand into a "hammer".

I think,.....
most did not want to "ruin" the use of both their hands,
so they would Not train their dominant Hand.







for fighting though,
you should "condition" the whole body.

:D

You are wrong.


Karate conditioning turns the hand into a hammer.



Iron palm, when trained correctly,

Does



Not


Change the shape of the hand, deaden any nerves, or discolor the hand.

Hope that helps.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You are wrong.


Karate conditioning turns the hand into a hammer.



Iron palm, when trained correctly,

Does



Not


Change the shape of the hand, deaden any nerves, or discolor the hand.

Hope that helps.

Correct, having done both, the difference is night and day.

[Kemo Martin]

Iron palm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulXzfJq3Dd0)

he will show you his hands
see if they look different?

but of course he knows nothing:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Iron palm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulXzfJq3Dd0)

he will show you his hands
see if they look different?

but of course he knows nothing:D

Because there is only ONE methods of IP, right?
:rolleyes:
Certain types of IP produce certain types of results.

As for the "karate" like conditoning compared to IP, what is your "karate" background? is it the same as your IP?
:D

[Kemo Martin]

conditioning
is conditioning

and there are a million ways


if you train conditioning
you should not hurry for results



:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

conditioning
is conditioning

and there are a million ways


if you train conditioning
you should not hurry for results



:D

and what experience do you base that on?
What systems have you trained in?

[Drake]

Kemo wins Troll of the Year... such finesse, such style...

[bawang]

he trains in nothing, isn't it obvious.
this guy is brain damaged.

[Drake]

But man can he keep a captive audience or what?

[bawang]

all i can say is "iron defecation"
this guy is bizzare

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kemo wins Troll of the Year... such finesse, such style...

That's an insult to all the decent trolls out there.

[tattooedmonk]

You are wrong.


Karate conditioning turns the hand into a hammer.



Iron palm, when trained correctly,

Does



Not


Change the shape of the hand, deaden any nerves, or discolor the hand.

Hope that helps. True, But it does make the hand thicker, although this is not noticeable to the untrained eye.

[tattooedmonk]

and what experience do you base that on?
What systems have you trained in?he already has said that he has none. All of his opinions on the subject are based on what he has read or heard. He has no experience at all.

[tattooedmonk]

That's an insult to all the decent trolls out there.A troll is someone that cruises around looking for little children to molest. Basically a pedophile. Do you think this guy is that low or lower??

[sanjuro_ronin]

A troll is someone that cruises around looking for little children to molest. Basically a pedophile. Do you think this guy is that low or lower??

We are referring to "internet trolls".
At least I hope we are :confused:

[Akronviper]

A troll is someone that cruises around looking for little children to molest. Basically a pedophile. Do you think this guy is that low or lower??

How do you know he isnt?

[Akronviper]

as far as hand size goes, I have a slight differnce with by IP hand its a little bigger, but if I lay off for a couple of days it decreases.

Also I was always told to do one hand. The hand should be your dominate hand.

[IronWeasel]

Also I was always told to do one hand. The hand should be your dominate hand.



Why is that? Is it a chi flow issue? Injury risk?

Just wondering.

[NJM]

True, But it does make the hand thicker, although this is not noticeable to the untrained eye.

Yep, it increases bone and ligament density among other things; I believe Dale would be better equipped to answer those questions.

[Dale Dugas]

Training on bean bags and sand will not give you the same level of conditioning that training on metal shot can give.

I have seen my right hand increase in size.

There are people who only train the right hand(I am one of them) who believe that training the left hand on metal shot is dangerous. Due to your heart being closer to that side. Again this is what I was taught and this is what I teach my students.

I pass on the cautions and tell my students to be very careful. If they have any palpitations to leave off training the left hand on metal shot all together.

Again you can train your left hand on bean bags and other mediums.

The caution is for metal shot training of the left hand.

[Kemo Martin]

Due to your heart being closer to that side. Again this is what I was taught



heart placement has nothing to do with the conditioning!



Metal shot?
I thought you were a "Lead Head"?

[sanjuro_ronin]

heart placement has nothing to do with the conditioning!



Metal shot?
I thought you were a "Lead Head"?

ROTFLMAO !!!

[Dale Dugas]

Put this untrained troll on ignore.

He knows nothing, as is evidenced by his inane posts.

[Kemo Martin]

yeah Right!!!!!!!!!!!

[tattooedmonk]

How do you know he isnt?That's the thing, I don't!!

[tattooedmonk]

Training on bean bags and sand will not give you the same level of conditioning that training on metal shot can give.

I have seen my right hand increase in size.

There are people who only train the right hand(I am one of them) who believe that training the left hand on metal shot is dangerous. Due to your heart being closer to that side. Again this is what I was taught and this is what I teach my students.

I pass on the cautions and tell my students to be very careful. If they have any palpitations to leave off training the left hand on metal shot all together.

Again you can train your left hand on bean bags and other mediums.

The caution is for metal shot training of the left hand.Based on my understanding this is correct.

[tattooedmonk]

heart placement has nothing to do with the conditioning!



Metal shot?
I thought you were a "Lead Head"?You have just confirmed 100&#37; that you are a troll and an idiot!!!

[Kemo Martin]

Iron Reality (http://shaolin-wushu.org/links.htm):D


This is the Real stuff here!

[IronWeasel]

as far as hand size goes, I have a slight differnce with by IP hand its a little bigger, but if I lay off for a couple of days it decreases.

Also I was always told to do one hand. The hand should be your dominate hand.


Where do you Akron folks get your blocks for breaking? The 2x4x16 are hard to locate.

[NJM]

Metal shot?
I thought you were a "Lead Head"?

Lead is a metal. Time to go back to first grade chemistry class.

[Kemo Martin]

in YOUR specific training method the "metal shot" is LEAD?
:confused::eek:
and
I never said lead was not a metal?:D

[Akronviper]

Where do you Akron folks get your blocks for breaking? The 2x4x16 are hard to locate.

On rt 18 between I-71 and I-77 there is a masonry yard. Cant remember the name its just west of rt 94. Also there is a place off of I-271 in Northfield I haven't been there but thats the one every seems to go to. Every once and while Pierce or Akron brick and block carries them. Their just 2x8x16 patio blocks split.

[NJM]

in YOUR specific training method the "metal shot" is LEAD?

No. My system uses steel shot.

[IronWeasel]

On rt 18 between I-71 and I-77 there is a masonry yard. Cant remember the name its just west of rt 94. Also there is a place off of I-271 in Northfield I haven't been there but thats the one every seems to go to. Every once and while Pierce or Akron brick and block carries them. Their just 2x8x16 patio blocks split.



Thankee kindly.

[tattooedmonk]

No. My system uses steel shot.Mine too.:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

FYI, doctor called me, no trace of Lead.

My chi must be to strong :D

[NJM]

FYI, doctor called me, no trace of Lead.

My chi must be to strong :D

Well, I think that settles that. Now we can move on with our lives.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well, I think that settles that. Now we can move on with our lives.

I know I can ;).

And NOW , we can move on:

[THREE EYED LAU]

hi all i was just wondering if anyone here trained in iron palm and if so what sort of conditioning regime they use? i was thinking of maybe starting trainiing so if u can give me an idea of what equipment i will need and what training to do i would be greatfull thanks.http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[NJM]

Supplies:
https://www.coilingdragoninternalarts.com/store/
http://www.wle.com//store/ironskills.html

[Raipizo]

Any people out there practice I.p? If so what equipment do you use in terms of striking medium technique stad etc?

[ride57]

I use this for a stand, 2 cement blocks on end with 2x8x16 cement block across. I first started with a canvas bag with sand. Then I bought a bean bag. Now I have a homemade bag with steel balls that I got from a shotgun reloading website. They are approx 5mm.

Dit da Jow goes without saying. I get from Dale Dugas or Josh at Plum Dragon herbs.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e109/88sporty/doug005.jpg

[Raipizo]

I'm surprised with the block across it doesn't break. I get jow from dale. I'm about 4 months in at a gravel bag now.

[Lucas]

a mopar man!!

[mooyingmantis]

I use the same stand set up as ride57.

I use the typical 10" octagon shaped canvas bag. I filled it with BBs from Wal-Mart. I also have a smaller square bag filled with BBs for tossing and catching.Soon I want to get a wall bag to fill with BBs and strike.

I purchase my herbs from Josh at Plum Dragon or Mike Biggie and make my own hit wine.

[YouKnowWho]

I also have a smaller square bag filled with BBs for tossing and catching.

IMO, 23 lb should be the maximum and 16 lb should be the average. How heavy is your tossing bag?

[Raipizo]

I have cinder blocks stacked crossways like jenga blocks

[JamesC]

I have cinder blocks stacked crossways like jenga blocks

This is the setup I use too.

I use the gravel bag from Wing Lam at the moment. I need to upgrade to the steel shot, but i'm a broke ass and can't afford it right now. I use Dale's jow. His stuff is amazing.

[Raipizo]

This is the setup I use too.

I use the gravel bag from Wing Lam at the moment. I need to upgrade to the steel shot, but i'm a broke ass and can't afford it right now. I use Dale's jow. His stuff is amazing.

You could try filling a bag with these, not sure if this will fill one though a lot cheaper and I believe it's not coated. I also am on the gravel bag from wle. The steel shot is a huge jump in price though. Not worth it imo and then just get a bag from dale or another site.

http://www.amazon.com/275-pack-Steel-Ball-slingshot-ammo/dp/B004PX9KOK/ref=sr_1_12?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1344538621&sr=1-12&keywords=3%2F8+steel+shot

[Raipizo]

Hey guys, just wondering should I incorporate iron fist training or would iron palm be good enough?

[Raipizo]

I use this for a stand, 2 cement blocks on end with 2x8x16 cement block across. I first started with a canvas bag with sand. Then I bought a bean bag. Now I have a homemade bag with steel balls that I got from a shotgun reloading website. They are approx 5mm.

Dit da Jow goes without saying. I get from Dale Dugas or Josh at Plum Dragon herbs.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e109/88sporty/doug005.jpg

I see your body hitting bag, what level are you? And what are the bats for?

Dale if you're reading i've read somehow mung beans are good to use as a beginning iron skills filler as it is good for the skin or something. Do you know anything about this?

[Raipizo]

And ride what's the black bag filled with? Just wondering.

[Dale Dugas]

Mung Beans are traditionally touted as being good for cooling heat. But this is when you ingest them.

Traditional training with medium not covered in bags but in pans/barrels/woks can be detrimental to your health. Breathing in any form of dust over a period of time is bad news for your lungs.

Bag your mediums and you will NEVER have an issue.

Anyone who tells you Mung Beans ONLY, or your not training the REAL iron palm is just plain silly.

I have used soy beans, kidney beans, chick peas, tapioca pearls, etc though I use these for finger and claw training.

My bags are full of metal shot from day one, as this is how I learned from Shifu Gene Chicoine.

[Raipizo]

Thanks I knew that. But yeah in bagged form as in one of my iron palm bags is filled with mung beans, supposedly helps your skin.

[Raipizo]

Anyone used a zipper closure bag? I was wondering if it comes unzipped during training, I've heard they do

[bawang]

i cut off pants leg from jeans, put copper bb bullets inside it, and asked some tailor to sew it up for me with a machine.

[Raipizo]

Did they have the yellow hairs?

[TenTigers]

what kind of chi-gung do you use for ip.
before? after?
I do small heavenly cycle before and after.

[Raipizo]

what kind of chi-gung do you use for ip.
before? after?
I do small heavenly cycle before and after.

I do a simple breathing exercise and the qigong exercises in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D7Hv4L1F60 and in the third one. Do you have a video demo of what you do?

[mickey]

Greetings,


http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58558



mickey

[Bacon]

Iron palm is a waste. There are far better things to spend time on.

[Raipizo]

I appreciate your well thought out reply as i'm sure this took much time to think of. There are other things to do yes and your thought of it being a waste is your opinion.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Iron palm is a waste. There are far better things to spend time on.

Cured meats for example.

[Raipizo]

Cured meats for example.

And polishing my stamp collection.

[Empty_Cup]

Iron palm is a waste. There are far better things to spend time on.

You've obviously never crossed hands with somebody who's trained it.

[Raipizo]

You've obviously never crossed hands with somebody who's trained it.

My thoughts exactly

[Empty_Cup]

Anybody have links to some good makiwara designs that are out there? I'm thinking of installing one in my basement.

[Bacon]

You've obviously never crossed hands with somebody who's trained it.

I have actually. More than one. They should've spent more time training how to hit someone and less worrying about how tough their hands were. You can get as much conditioning as you need from hitting a heavy bag and sparring.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have actually. More than one. They should've spent more time training how to hit someone and less worrying about how tough their hands were. You can get as much conditioning as you need from hitting a heavy bag and sparring.

Many people do IP training to go beyond the "typical" for whatever reason they want, many times because it is a tradition in their MA.
It does NOT take the place of sparring and bag work, but supplements them.

[YouKnowWho]

One advantage to train iron palm is when you get old, your finger joints may develop some arthritis and difficult for you to hold fist to punch, your palm edge strike will function well.

[Empty_Cup]

I have actually. More than one. They should've spent more time training how to hit someone and less worrying about how tough their hands were. You can get as much conditioning as you need from hitting a heavy bag and sparring.

I still have to disagree with you here. My sifu has been training iron palm and iron shin for 20+ years and he literally has to go at only 10% when sparring due to the injury potential when he blocks. This type of conditioning is much more than what is developed through a heavy bag/sparring.

I'm sure others out there have experience with this and can chime in.

[YouKnowWho]

You can use your heavy bag to "maintain" your iron palm ability. You can't use your heavy bag to "develop" your iron palm ability.

99% of the time that we won't need to use IP in our life. If we have to use, IP will come in handy. To strike on the head area, the palm will function better than a fist.

[Raipizo]

Well put guys. Not going to say there isn't the person like bacon says. Yes you do need to train actual hitting I agree with you there. But to rule out traditional training that is time tested like that so easily. I.p does come in handy but you can't just sit and hit the bag like that and expect to win every fight. Good input guys.

[bawang]

you can get the same hard hands using a sandbag. but you cant conceal your hand. only iron sand bag lets ur hand look normal.

[YouKnowWho]

In combat, ability (striking hard) is only 50%. The other 50% is technique (deliever skill).

Oneday a young boy walked toward a TCMA master and asked for comment. The boy ran 10 feet and applied a flying side kick on a tree. The TCMA master said, "You are great. I'm sure 20 miles from here, there is a tree in front of a temple. You should have no problem to kick on that tree too."

[TenTigers]

Anybody have links to some good makiwara designs that are out there? I'm thinking of installing one in my basement.
just out of curiosity, why do you want to train on a makiwara?

[TenTigers]

You can use your heavy bag to "maintain" your iron palm ability. You can't use your heavy bag to "develop" your iron palm ability.

99% of the time that we won't need to use IP in our life. If we have to use, IP will come in handy. To strike on the head area, the palm will function better than a fist.

in our systems, (Hung Kuen and SPM) IP is used more for training power generation, rather than simply hardening the hand.
The structures of the hand are "hardened," as a result of the training, and are necessary to withstand the impact of your own strikes as they get stronger.
Otherwise, it is like having a solid glass hammer. You can only hit so hard with it before it breaks.

[TenTigers]

this is an amazing little book. It shows Okinawan as well as the original Chinese training methods and how to build them.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Hojo-Undo-Traditional/dp/159439136X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345130400&sr=8-1&keywords=hojo+undo

[Dale Dugas]

I was thinking the same thing.

Makiwara are dangerous unless you know what you are doing.

You do not put them on a wall and then start striking. They need to have serious give as you do not want to strike something that does not move.

IP will not give you that nasty golf ball under the knuckle skin look that some people have. IP makes your hands baby soft until you solidify them at the time of striking.

[TenTigers]

I was thinking the same thing.

Makiwara are dangerous unless you know what you are doing.

You do not put them on a wall and then start striking. They need to have serious give as you do not want to strike something that does not move.

IP will not give you that nasty golf ball under the knuckle skin look that some people have. IP makes your hands baby soft until you solidify them at the time of striking.
agreed. no matter what you do, DO NOT use one of those foam pad, canvas covered, wall mounted "makiwaras" unless you mount it on a resilient striking post.
Do not mount it directly to the wall. It does not have enough give, and will cause damage.

[Faruq]

I knew so many cats who "could fight" growing up that had that makiwara on their walls with bruce lee's face on it, or the tao sign. They could fight, but none of them ever developed that brick breaking fist. Like Tigers said, your tool has to give when you strike it or the fist will never get that traditional power...

[Raipizo]

Thanks for the link tigers. And i agree with you Dale you need to be careful doing conditioning.

[Empty_Cup]

agreed. no matter what you do, DO NOT use one of those foam pad, canvas covered, wall mounted "makiwaras" unless you mount it on a resilient striking post.
Do not mount it directly to the wall. It does not have enough give, and will cause damage.

:confused: Not sure who mentioned mounting a makiwara to the wall.

The ones I've seen (if makiwara is the correct word for them) are a free-standing 4 x 4 with the top portion having 3 - 4 saw cuts/gaps that allow for give. This is used for punching and chops. I've seen this same design mounted at a 45 deg. angle close to the ground for kicking.

Just wondering if other folks have seen other designs out there.

[TenTigers]

nah, just mentioned it just in case.
The one you described sounds like it would be resilient enough.

[Dale Dugas]

The only wall mounted Makiwara that is safe is made by Shureido from Okinawa

It is a heavy dense foam pad with a slotted wood target that is covered in leather. It has give and density.

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/Boston_Baguazhang/makiwara_mkc.jpg

[Raipizo]

The only wall mounted Makiwara that is safe is made by Shureido from Okinawa

It is a heavy dense foam pad with a slotted wood target that is covered in leather. It has give and density.

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/Boston_Baguazhang/makiwara_mkc.jpg

But I guess it also depends how hard you hit even on a canvas one on a wall if you don't go wailing on it mine feels like it has good give. But mine is also on a wood board that is in turn a little loose from the concrete wall it's attached to so the board slides back and forth when I do hit it do maybe that's why it feels that way.

[Raipizo]

I've seen people use river rock in their iron body/palm training do you believe this would come after the normal gravel bag and before the iron shot bag or after using the iron shot bag for awhile?

[Empty_Cup]

What methods do folks out there use for fingertip conditioning?

[Dale Dugas]

Be careful as the fingers are rather fragile compared to the carpal bones of the hand.

Many people use a bucket of beans, and do not strike into the bucket but push their hands and fingers into the beans and then flap the hands in various angles to strengthen the flexor and extendor muscles of the forearms.

You need to have not only strong muscles of the hand but the whole arm so that you do not vector off to the side or up or down due to weakness.

Think about your hands being at the distal end of your arms, and you get the picture.

Many people use a stronger medicine for the fingers as you have the Shi Xuan acupuncture points located on the ends of the finger tips.

Some schools have a medicine they cook up and then soak the hands on the hot liniment.

Also captains of crush grippers, Bao Ding Wan(Solid Steel Ball Bearings), sand bags around 5-10 pounds are also used.

Some of the Hakka systems use rocks, marbles, and steel shot at the advanced stages but remember that you can cripple your hands and you do not want to deaden the nerves of the hands.

[IronFist]

What methods do folks out there use for fingertip conditioning?

Why do you want to condition your fingertips anyway?

Not flaming. I'm actually curious. It seems like one of those things that is cool in movies but not really practical in real life. Any target that I strike with my fingertips is going to be soft enough that I don't need conditioning.

Do you want to put your fingers through Coke cans or whatever?

[Bacon]

Why do you want to condition your fingertips anyway?

Not flaming. I'm actually curious. It seems like one of those things that is cool in movies but not really practical in real life. Any target that I strike with my fingertips is going to be soft enough that I don't need conditioning.

Do you want to put your fingers through Coke cans or whatever?

Well really the only thing you should aim at with fingers is the eyes. Any other tergets are pretty pointless to hit with the fingers (throat included). The problem is that mostly it's taught to strike from a distance to the eyes which produces a flinch reflex and can end up with the fingers hitting the skull. This is why most people feel they need iron finger training.

If you want to learn to use your fingers learn to gouge with the fingers or thumb once the hand is in contact with the face, preferably while controlling against a wall or in a dominant ground position. This will save your fingers, allow you to do a great deal of damage, and save you time doing worthless iron conditioning.

[Dale Dugas]

Well really the only thing you should aim at with fingers is the eyes. Any other tergets are pretty pointless to hit with the fingers (throat included). The problem is that mostly it's taught to strike from a distance to the eyes which produces a flinch reflex and can end up with the fingers hitting the skull. This is why most people feel they need iron finger training.

If you want to learn to use your fingers learn to gouge with the fingers or thumb once the hand is in contact with the face, preferably while controlling against a wall or in a dominant ground position. This will save your fingers, allow you to do a great deal of damage, and save you time doing worthless iron conditioning.

Finger training is not just for striking with the fingertips.

the side benefit from Iron Palm and Iron Finger training is a great increase in grip strength. You need to strengthen the entire arm from the shoulders down, people who feel they need only train the palms or the fingers without the rest of the supporting structure are just wasting their time as they will fail in application.

Maybe you should not talk about things you have no direct experience in.

Also the nerves in and around the throat are easy to hit with all manner of strikes, not just the fingers. And they can be very dangerous.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why do you want to condition your fingertips anyway?

Not flaming. I'm actually curious. It seems like one of those things that is cool in movies but not really practical in real life. Any target that I strike with my fingertips is going to be soft enough that I don't need conditioning.

Do you want to put your fingers through Coke cans or whatever?

Did you see Mike Parella's video of finger striking a watermelon?
How is that NOT cool ?
:D
I was once struck in ribs by a guy who did finger strikes and had very well conditioned fingers, it was an special kind of pain.
I think that IF you are gonna use finger strikes, conditoning is a must.
I don't use finger strikes so I don't do that much myself, BUT I have seen and felt first hand the usefulness of conditioning IF one uses finger strikes.

[TaichiMantis]

Why do you want to condition your fingertips anyway?

Not flaming. I'm actually curious. It seems like one of those things that is cool in movies but not really practical in real life. Any target that I strike with my fingertips is going to be soft enough that I don't need conditioning.

Do you want to put your fingers through Coke cans or whatever?

You've never felt my Sifu's finger strikes! :eek: And I agree with sjr

[Lucas]

In regards to over all iron hand conditioning, or specialization....After watching sanjuro nail that heavy bag with phoenix eye hooks I decided I would rather take a fist to the side of my neck over his phoenixneye any day. Guess who gets to hit with phoenix eye like that. Only guys that condition for it. If you can't see the real world application from that then you are quite dense.

[Dale Dugas]

I really have no idea where people crap on people who condition your weapons(ie hands, arms, fingers, shins, etc) to make them harder and able to dish out more abuse to those who attack in whether in sport fighting or real encounters.

Anyone who always wraps their hands or puts pads on they arms and legs is going to be hurt if not seriously injured when they whack someone without the pads on.

Nothing wrong with being strong and conditioned.

[TenTigers]

I really have no idea where people crap on people who condition your weapons(ie hands, arms, fingers, shins, etc) to make them harder and able to dish out more abuse to those who attack in whether in sport fighting or real encounters.

Anyone who always wraps their hands or puts pads on they arms and legs is going to be hurt if not seriously injured when they whack someone without the pads on.

Nothing wrong with being strong and conditioned.

Anyone who has been struck in the softer areas of the body with a strong set of fingers realizes the effectiveness of these strikes.(notice I didn't mention th3 deadly dim mak...) Will they drop you? Nope. Will they cause pain and disrupt your opponent, allowing you to follow up with other strikes? Yep.
Striking the peripheral nervous system is a viable skill well worth learning.
Sure, winter in NY negates a lot of these strikes, and limits you to mostly headhunting, limiting your options, as do gloves and sportfighting, etc., but no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
(I'm trying to cover as many bases as I can, so we don't have endless pages of,"oh yeah? What if..")

[Dale Dugas]

Conditioning is a good thing no matter what you are conditioning.

I am not talking about destroying the hands, shins, or other body parts with ridiculous fantasy training like the 72 arts of shaolin p oop.

As Rik mentioned, there is something very viable in studying how to hit the nerves of others.

[Bacon]

Finger training is not just for striking with the fingertips.

the side benefit from Iron Palm and Iron Finger training is a great increase in grip strength.
Which can be done safely and more easily in other ways. When you can deadlift, row, press and clean a decent amout your grip strength will be good enough anyway and you'll be stronger than most.


You need to strengthen the entire arm from the shoulders down, people who feel they need only train the palms or the fingers without the rest of the supporting structure are just wasting their time as they will fail in application.
See above


Maybe you should not talk about things you have no direct experience in. Well if that's the case you can talk about iron training and I'll refrain but then you have no cause to talk about actual fighting.

Here's the rub.
Pressure point techniques are generally ineffectual for several reason not the least of which is that you're trying to hit very a small target under pressure. Many people can shrug off strikes or pressure to those points. The same can not be said of areas which can easily be hit with larger, more easily and safely conditioned weapons like the temple, jaw, brachial plexus, liver, kidneys, or peroneal nerve. So anything which could be struck with the fingers could be more effectually struck by another tool such as a fist, edge of the hand, palm, or elbow.


Also the nerves in and around the throat are easy to hit with all manner of strikes, not just the fingers. And they can be very dangerous.
Ooo the magical nerve striking. I'm shaking in my dim mak booties. If you hit the throat or area around it hard enough you'll do damage and there are better tools for that like the edge of the hand, forearm, etc. You don't need any kind of iron conditioning for that.

How about this. Find a well trained boxer or Thai boxer and try to apply your finger strikes under pressure. Once you wake up tell me how it went.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Pressure point techniques are generally ineffectual for several reason not the least of which is that you're trying to hit very a small target under pressure. Many people can shrug off strikes or pressure to those points. The same can not be said of areas which can easily be hit with larger, more easily and safely conditioned weapons like the temple, jaw, brachial plexus, liver, kidneys, or peroneal nerve. So anything which could be struck with the fingers could be more effectually struck by another tool such as a fist, edge of the hand, palm, or elbow.

Every MA has "vital point striking".
The correct theory has always been, to use the sniper analogy: Aim Small, Miss Small, Aim big, Miss Big.
I am not a fan of finger strikes so I don't train them, BUT I have seen them being used quite effectively under the right circumstances.

[IronFist]

Finger training is not just for striking with the fingertips.

the side benefit from Iron Palm and Iron Finger training is a great increase in grip strength. You need to strengthen the entire arm from the shoulders down, people who feel they need only train the palms or the fingers without the rest of the supporting structure are just wasting their time as they will fail in application.


How does training the fingers with striking cause an increase in grip strength?

I'm agreeing that grip strength is important.

I fail to see how any sort of striking training will cause an increase in potential muscle output.

[IronFist]

Phoenix Eye Fist is cool.

I trained it on a wall bag every day for a few years like a decade ago.

All these small target and fine motor coordination techniques are next to impossible to do against a resisting opponent and especially when you have an adrenaline dump.

This kind of thing is never going to happen in a real fight -- a simultaneous block and nerve strike to the biceps. Would it hurt like hell? Yes. Are you going to pull that off against a resisting opponent who is actually trying to fight you and not just standing there letting you strike his outstretched arm? Of course not.

http://i.imgur.com/vyAA8.jpg

Sure, you can jam your fingers into someone's ribs, but it's going to be **** hard IRL to do it. It certainly won't look like this (imagine he's using his fingers instead of a palm strike):

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/4812_95955642731_955998_n.jpg

Have your training partner put on some safety goggles and see how tough it is to do eye strikes are when he's not just standing there throwing cooperative punches at you like this:

http://i.imgur.com/pEKi0.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

Typically, "limb destruction" is used VS grabs or attempted grabs and while they CAN be used VS strikes, the likelihood of them working is very limited.
Marciano used to do it, punching the opponents arms, so did other boxers ( Foreman and Norton I think).