Iron Palm

[Dale Dugas]

How does training the fingers with striking cause an increase in grip strength?

I'm agreeing that grip strength is important.

I fail to see how any sort of striking training will cause an increase in potential muscle output.

Because you have not done it.

Iron Palm and the striking involved causes the ligaments and tendons of the hands to thicken from the impact. The shock will over time thicken the tissues of the hands.

Training the fingers through medium in a bucket training causes you to strengthen all the extensors and flexor muscles in the forearm which also influence grip.

So you have increases in the systems used to hold and grip things without actually training just the grip.

[IronFist]

Because you have not done it.

Iron Palm and the striking involved causes the ligaments and tendons of the hands to thicken from the impact. The shock will over time thicken the tissues of the hands.

Agreed. It's called Wolff's law. It's why dancers and gymnasts have more dense heels than other people.

It has nothing to do with muscular strength, though.


Training the fingers through medium in a bucket training causes you to strengthen all the extensors and flexor muscles in the forearm which also influence grip.

What kind of "training"? Do you mean like thrusting your hands into a bucket filled with something (beans, rocks, steel shot, etc.)? That in and of itself wouldn't strengthen the grip.

So are you talking about grasping at the material in the bucket after thrusting your hands into it? For example, thrust, grab, remove hand from bucket, repeat?

That may result in marginal grip increases in grip strength.


So you have increases in the systems used to hold and grip things without actually training just the grip.

If increasing grip strength is the goal, there are far better methods that would yield quantifiable results in much less time.

[Empty_Cup]

...

Training the fingers through medium in a bucket training causes you to strengthen all the extensors and flexor muscles in the forearm which also influence grip.

....

Can you say more about this, Dale? You referenced this with "flapping" hands within the medium...not really clear what you're describing here.

[Raipizo]

Can you say more about this, Dale? You referenced this with "flapping" hands within the medium...not really clear what you're describing here.

Yeah it is kinda vague

[TaichiMantis]

One way to increase finger grip strength is to toss and grab a cloth bag filled with beans using only you fingers, or toss and grab a yoga ball without your palms touching the ball.

[Dale Dugas]

Training the fingers is a process that uses a bucket of medium that your hands are not struck into, you use slow smooth strength and see how far you can push your entire arm from the shoulders down into the bucket. This will be hard at first as your flexor and extender muscles of the lower arm/forearm are not strong and you will notice you cannot get all the way through the medium.

Most people start with beans. Does NOT matter what kind so please do not come back with all that silly superstition about you NEED mung beans. Many people like soy beans as they are very hard and round. You could use kidney beans, etc.

You will practice pushing your arm(hand, forearm, upper arm) into the medium.

You then practice the various flapping methods with your hands under the beans. You also twirl the hands as if opening a door knob and squeezing the beans, you then can add grabbing the beans and then flicking them back into the bucket with your finger flicks. Many South Mantis people train their hands and fingers this way. They have nasty 3 hand power.

You need to use some strong dit da jow as the finger and forearms are going to get sore as heck with all this supination and pronation of the arms. Before and after are the usual applications methods.
You can also get yourself some solid Bao Ding Wan(http://www.baodingballs.com) as the hollow ones are for cupcakes.

Working the solid bao ding with the fingers will increase their strength as well.

All together the flapping, twirling exercises along with pushing through 50 pounds of beans in a bucket is strengthening the arms in a way that forearm curls, and weight lifting does not.

Add this to Iron Palm training and you are going to have a unusually strong set of arms, hands, along with a grip strength increase.

Other Shifu teach you to pick up jars that are heavy with the fingertips, this is practiced in many of the Okinawan systems as well. Make the mitts strong and then rip people in half when needed.

Hope this helps.

[Raipizo]

Training the fingers is a process that uses a bucket of medium that your hands are not struck into, you use slow smooth strength and see how far you can push your entire arm from the shoulders down into the bucket. This will be hard at first as your flexor and extender muscles of the lower arm/forearm are not strong and you will notice you cannot get all the way through the medium.

Most people start with beans. Does NOT matter what kind so please do not come back with all that silly superstition about you NEED mung beans. Many people like soy beans as they are very hard and round. You could use kidney beans, etc.

You will practice pushing your arm(hand, forearm, upper arm) into the medium.

You then practice the various flapping methods with your hands under the beans. You also twirl the hands as if opening a door knob and squeezing the beans, you then can add grabbing the beans and then flicking them back into the bucket with your finger flicks. Many South Mantis people train their hands and fingers this way. They have nasty 3 hand power.

You need to use some strong dit da jow as the finger and forearms are going to get sore as heck with all this supination and pronation of the arms. Before and after are the usual applications methods.
You can also get yourself some solid Bao Ding Wan(http://www.baodingballs.com) as the hollow ones are for cupcakes.

Working the solid bao ding with the fingers will increase their strength as well.

All together the flapping, twirling exercises along with pushing through 50 pounds of beans in a bucket is strengthening the arms in a way that forearm curls, and weight lifting does not.

Add this to Iron Palm training and you are going to have a unusually strong set of arms, hands, along with a grip strength increase.

Other Shifu teach you to pick up jars that are heavy with the fingertips, this is practiced in many of the Okinawan systems as well. Make the mitts strong and then rip people in half when needed.

Hope this helps.

So you're just pressing your hand in instead of striking? And you would twist your hand when it's already inside? And to flick you mean like rapidly opening your hand right? Just trying to clarify. I might even give this a try. Never tried conditioning my fingers.

[Raipizo]

Also Dale any word from your bag supplier yet on the lined bags, I knew he was injured or something and you said he would be back around fall. Just wondering was all.

[Dale Dugas]

It is not that easy guys and there is a lot more material and information that needs to be learned as you can injure your hands. Hands on training is needed with these programs as you can damage nerves among other issues.

As with any serious training program you want to learn from people who know what they are doing and can offer you not only the physical methods but the healing methods as well.

There are herbs to take internally as well as different heated medicines you can use to ensure safety and non injuries.

The advanced levels have you striking into the mediums but that is not done before you develop the physical strength and structure.

I teach these methods privately so let me know how I can be of service.

FYI Please be aware of anyone not licensed as an acupuncturist/herbalist cannot give you any advice on taking internal herbs for ANY reason, as this is practicing Chinese herbal medicine without a license. Certain unethical people out there are pretending to be licensed health care practitioners and making recommendations that are illegal. Caveat Emptor

P.S. I should more bags in a few weeks. Order has been placed.

[Raipizo]

It is not that easy guys and there is a lot more material and information that needs to be learned as you can injure your hands. Hands on training is needed with these programs as you can damage nerves among other issues.

As with any serious training program you want to learn from people who know what they are doing and can offer you not only the physical methods but the healing methods as well.

FYI Please be aware of anyone not licensed as an acupuncturist/herbalist cannot give you any advice on taking internal herbs for ANY reason, as this is practicing Chinese herbal medicine without a license. Certain unethical people out there are pretending to be licensed health care practitioners and making recommendations that are illegal. Caveat Emptor

Just look at the busted Tcm practitioner section lol

[Faruq]

Training the fingers is a process that uses a bucket of medium that your hands are not struck into, you use slow smooth strength and see how far you can push your entire arm from the shoulders down into the bucket. This will be hard at first as your flexor and extender muscles of the lower arm/forearm are not strong and you will notice you cannot get all the way through the medium.

Most people start with beans. Does NOT matter what kind so please do not come back with all that silly superstition about you NEED mung beans. Many people like soy beans as they are very hard and round. You could use kidney beans, etc.

You will practice pushing your arm(hand, forearm, upper arm) into the medium.

You then practice the various flapping methods with your hands under the beans. You also twirl the hands as if opening a door knob and squeezing the beans, you then can add grabbing the beans and then flicking them back into the bucket with your finger flicks. Many South Mantis people train their hands and fingers this way. They have nasty 3 hand power.

You need to use some strong dit da jow as the finger and forearms are going to get sore as heck with all this supination and pronation of the arms. Before and after are the usual applications methods.
You can also get yourself some solid Bao Ding Wan(http://www.baodingballs.com) as the hollow ones are for cupcakes.

Working the solid bao ding with the fingers will increase their strength as well.

All together the flapping, twirling exercises along with pushing through 50 pounds of beans in a bucket is strengthening the arms in a way that forearm curls, and weight lifting does not.

Add this to Iron Palm training and you are going to have a unusually strong set of arms, hands, along with a grip strength increase.

Other Shifu teach you to pick up jars that are heavy with the fingertips, this is practiced in many of the Okinawan systems as well. Make the mitts strong and then rip people in half when needed.

Hope this helps.

Hey Dale, which of your DVDs shows these methods? And what is 3 hand power, lol?

[IronFist]

Or you can just use Captains of Crush grippers or an Ivanko super gripper for grip specificity.

Other non-specific ways include deadlifting (no straps), one arm deadlifting, hanging from a pullup bar with one hand for time, one arm pullups, etc.

Show me someone who can DL 2.5x bodyweight without straps and I'll show you someone with a strong grip.

I think some old wrestler said he would crumple up the newspaper each morning using only one hand per page (I guess start in the corner and crumple away). That would probably get newsprint all over your hands, though.

Of course, those don't give you any conditioning for striking.

Holding weighted jars with the finger tips, what real world applications does that translate to? I've seen it mentioned in a few kung fu books. Reminds me of that "Eagle Catcher" apparatus which was the most useless thing ever. I had one back in my secret kung fu training days but sold it on eBay.

https://www.tigerclaw.com/images/P/20-71%20Eagle%20Catcher.png

[Raipizo]

Or you can just use Captains of Crush grippers or an Ivanko super gripper for grip specificity.

Other non-specific ways include deadlifting (no straps), one arm deadlifting, hanging from a pullup bar with one hand for time, one arm pullups, etc.

Show me someone who can DL 2.5x bodyweight without straps and I'll show you someone with a strong grip.

this guy. Not sure if 2.5 though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJUiF0UIeu8&playnext=1&list=PLDEBE47EB0280879F&feature=results_video

[Bacon]

Or you can just use Captains of Crush grippers or an Ivanko super gripper for grip specificity.

Other non-specific ways include deadlifting (no straps), one arm deadlifting, hanging from a pullup bar with one hand for time, one arm pullups, etc.

Show me someone who can DL 2.5x bodyweight without straps and I'll show you someone with a strong grip.

I think some old wrestler said he would crumple up the newspaper each morning using only one hand per page (I guess start in the corner and crumple away). That would probably get newsprint all over your hands, though.

Of course, those don't give you any conditioning for striking.

Like I said. These are more efficient and safer ways of building grip strength and the "striking conditioning" for the fingers is a crock.

Oh and those who tout tcm as any sort of legitimate medicine should be subject to flogging. If it was worth it's weight in spam it'd be able to hold up under a double blind study.

[IronFist]

this guy. Not sure if 2.5 though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJUiF0UIeu8&playnext=1&list=PLDEBE47EB0280879F&feature=results_video

Even if it's not 2.5x, a 495 deadlift with no straps still = strong grip.

[Dale Dugas]

Like I said. These are more efficient and safer ways of building grip strength and the "striking conditioning" for the fingers is a crock.

Oh and those who tout tcm as any sort of legitimate medicine should be subject to flogging. If it was worth it's weight in spam it'd be able to hold up under a double blind study.

All you do is bicker on and on about everything.

I will put Chinese medicine up to any western drug.

Let everyone see how many people have been killed by Western pharmaceuticals versus Chinese herbs.

HUGE gap in that logistical investigation.

"In a study published in the May issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, researchers came to a surprising conclusion: hospitalizations for poisoning by prescription medication has increased by 65 percent from 1999 to 2006. The rates of unintentional poisoning– from prescription opioids, sedatives and tranquilizers in the U.S. has surpassed motor vehicle crashes as the leading cause of unintentional injury death.

Simply put, this means that poisoning from prescription drugs is now the second leading cause of unintentional injury death in the U.S.

“Deaths and hospitalizations associated with prescription drug misuse have reached epidemic proportions,” said the study’s lead author, Jeffrey H. Coben, MD, of the West Virginia University School of Medicine. “It is essential that health care providers, pharmacists, insurance providers, state and federal agencies, and the general public all work together to address this crisis. Prescription medications are just as powerful and dangerous as other notorious street drugs, and we need to ensure people are aware of these dangers and that treatment services are available for those with substance abuse problems.”

Dr. Coben states that while the data shows a fast-growing problem, there’s an urgent need for more in-depth research on these hospitalizations. The study was able determine whether the poisonings were diagnosed as intentional, unintentional or undetermined. While the majority of hospitalized poisonings are classified as unintentional, notable increases were also shown for intentional overdoses associated with these drugs, most likely reflecting their widespread availability in community settings."

In case you start to whine about where this is coming from:


http://www.ajpmonline.org/search/

So you really need to pull your head out of you a ss before you start slandering a health care system that does not kill as many people as your precious Western Medicine and its double blind studies.

The results show that there has been a HUGE increase in the deaths whether intentional or not through the use of Western medicine and the drugs they use.

[Faruq]

Training the fingers is a process that uses a bucket of medium that your hands are not struck into, you use slow smooth strength and see how far you can push your entire arm from the shoulders down into the bucket. This will be hard at first as your flexor and extender muscles of the lower arm/forearm are not strong and you will notice you cannot get all the way through the medium.

Most people start with beans. Does NOT matter what kind so please do not come back with all that silly superstition about you NEED mung beans. Many people like soy beans as they are very hard and round. You could use kidney beans, etc.

You will practice pushing your arm(hand, forearm, upper arm) into the medium.

You then practice the various flapping methods with your hands under the beans. You also twirl the hands as if opening a door knob and squeezing the beans, you then can add grabbing the beans and then flicking them back into the bucket with your finger flicks. Many South Mantis people train their hands and fingers this way. They have nasty 3 hand power.

Dale, do any of your iron skill DVDs show these methods, and if so could you post the link to the correct product?

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

All you do is bicker on and on about everything.

I will put Chinese medicine up to any western drug.

I think James Randi is willing to take anyone up on that.


Let everyone see how many people have been killed by Western pharmaceuticals versus Chinese herbs.

Don't forget to factor in how many people have died from mystic Chinese medicine when they may have been saved by western medical science.




(some stuff about people dying from western medicine mistakes)

http://www.ajpmonline.org/search/

So you really need to pull your head out of you a ss before you start slandering a health care system that does not kill as many people as your precious Western Medicine and its double blind studies.

Your posts are fantastic :D Just like when you challenge anyone who doesn't accept that qigong is protecting you from people half your size throwing controlled punches during an "iron body" demonstration, you also use the same erroneous logic (and love that word "slander") to promote Chinese medicine.

Although I'm sure at least 90% of KFM readers are smart enough to already see the error in your logic, I will spell it out for the other 10%:

Attempting to deny that chinese medicine isn't "legitimate" (as Bacon put it) by showing that people sometimes die from mistakes in Western medicine doesn't disprove that chinese medicine isn't legitimate.

In fact, even if western medicine had a 100% death rate, that still has nothing to do with whether or not Chinese medicine is "legitimate."

If you want to defend Chinese medicine as "legitimate," provide proof that Chinese medicine is legitimate. There is no point in citing studies about western medicine because the discussion is not about western medicine.


The results show that there has been a HUGE increase in the deaths whether intentional or not through the use of Western medicine and the drugs they use.

Again, this has absolutely nothing to do about the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of Chinese medicine.

Dale, I know from your posts that you're a smart guy. There's no way you're making these mistakes on accident.

I salute your premium grade internet trolling.

I imagine this is you on every post:

http://i.imgur.com/VTNNG.gif

Also here's a good article about Chinese medicine:
http://randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1585-skepticism-on-the-road-a-glimpse-of-traditional-medicine-in-china.html

Look, is Chinese medicine worthless? Of course not. I'm sure there are bits and pieces that work. Some of the herbs they've used for things for centuries probably contain the same active ingredients as what is used in western Medicine. Don't they recommend chewing on white willow bark for pain? White willow bark contains salicin, which is similiar to aspirin, and is effective for pain relief.

But there's a lot of hokum. Just like western snakeoil salesmen who pray on the sick and desperate.

And being Chinese medicine, it gets a lot of added value just from people who are like "it's Chinese, therefore it's msytic, therefore it's more effective!" I think there's a name for that delusional belief but I forgot what it is.

But I know you profit from selling mystic Chinese knowledge and supplies and stuff so you're probably not going to readily change your views.

[Bacon]

Thank you Mr. I Hate Ashida Kim. I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Raipizo]

Agreed somewhat there. It's hard to prove tcm works. And yeah western medicine lately has relied too much on medicines and such which are not very good for the body and put older practices to the side. Not sure why, probably just lost in time or thought to be not as effective. Not to say modern medicine is awful it's just you yourself the patient have to take the risks of taking some of these drugs with the perks of them. Would I suggest doing meditation alone for cancer or something? No do it alongside the latest technology to help sure. I like Dale he's a nice guy and is pretty trustworthy but that doesn't mean I have to stand by everything he believes in either.

[Lucas]

when i tore my rotator cuff i went to tcm. and i am better by only my chinese doctor using only chinese methods. does it work? fug ya it does. i have proof in my body.

[Raipizo]

when i tore my rotator cuff i went to tcm. and i am better by only my chinese doctor using only chinese methods. does it work? fug ya it does. i have proof in my body.

That's great :P never was saying it didn't work though either.

[Lucas]

oh i know, but that guy that is obsessed with hating ashida kim was. so i just wanted to put my experience out there. i mean chinese people have used chinese medicine for what? thousands of years? ya it totally doesnt work :rolleyes:

lol

i agree there are some aspects that are rubbish, but you cant just burn a whole apple tree because one apple is rotten. then you wont have any apples!

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

oh i know, but that guy that is obsessed with hating ashida kim was. so i just wanted to put my experience out there. i mean chinese people have used chinese medicine for what? thousands of years? ya it totally doesnt work :rolleyes:

lol


Uh... and TCM has never changed at all over thousands of years? Please.



i agree there are some aspects that are rubbish, but you cant just burn a whole apple tree because one apple is rotten. then you wont have any apples!

Yeah, I even admitted some of it was legit.

Also, just cuz something is old doesn't mean it's good. People made up crap back in the day cuz they were inventing medicine and had nothing to compare it to. The Chinese are the same people who would poke a prisoner in some location and then if he died a few days later they would say it was because of dim mak and his qi flow was disrupted and they just invented delayed death touch :rolleyes:

We (humans) go through a lot of stuff that doesn't work to find stuff that does work. Hitler was prescribed strychnine pills because they were believed to help his stomach issues. Just because something has been used for a certain period of time doesn't mean it's effective.

Some medications are harsh on the body, but guess what, they're better than dying. Who cares if they're made in a lab instead of "natural?"

1,000 years from now we'll look back at 2012 medicine and be like lol, that was barbaric.

But there might still be people on forums trying to sell "ancient" 2012 medicine from a "more natural" time or whatever.

I'm not saying TCM is, as a whole, useless. But there's a lot of unproven stuff that people come up with all sorts of conspiracy theory excuses for why they're not tested in double blind studies.

US medical technology is the best in the world, but it's not perfect.

Citing US medical deaths to prove the legitimacy of Chinese medicine is laughable. No one is that dumb. Dale is trolling.

"lots of people die in the west. Therefore, Chinese medicine is effective!" http://smiliesftw.com/x/bowrofl.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[Lucas]

Uh... and TCM has never changed at all over thousands of years? Please.

Never said it didnt. of course its changed, thats how all medicine is devloped...





Yeah, I even admitted some of it was legit.



I concede. There is a large portion of chinese medicine that is effective.

and i'm not saying that because its old means its good. common sense would point to the fact that i'm saying people have been using effective methods of chinese medicine for thousands of years....effectively. duuuhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Dale Dugas]

The net ghosts need to understand something.

Acupuncture is considered legitimate enough in Massachusetts that our licenses to practice are obtained through the Board of Registration in Medicine. The exact same place Medical Doctors have to get their licenses.

The Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine licenses more than 40,000 physicians, osteopaths and acupuncturists. The Board was created in 1894 to protect the public health and safety by setting standards for the practice of medicine and ensuring that doctors who practice in the Commonwealth are appropriately qualified and competent. The Board investigates complaints, holds hearings and determines sanctions. More information is available at www.mass.gov/massmedboard

Also many doctors take a national board exam with 200 questions.

For my National Boards I had to take 400.

So if you going to insult Acupuncture and Chinese medicine. Maybe one should do some research before making asinine statements.

Again anyone can come visit me, contact me and see for themselves what I do. I do not hide anything about my life.

Who are you guys again?

oh, thats right, just some net ghosts who feel they can hide, snipe and slander/libel those who try and make a difference in their community.

I treat Veterans of all ages for free with acupuncture and have had great results.

What have you done for local Veterans?

And the DOD gave my school, the New England School of Acupuncture a multimillion dollar grant to study an ear acupuncture protocol for the treatment of PTSD. What have you done to help?

Funny that if we acupuncturists were not legitimate, why would they waste their money?

I give away more Dit Da Jow free and as donations than any other supplier in the world. And it has helped many people here on KFM and other boards. What do you do to help people suffering from injuries, etc?

My door is open.

Too bad yours will never be.

[Raipizo]

It's good to see you're being charitable Dale :D

[Raipizo]

For those taking them for I.p. I 've switched to putting a tablet of half into water to let it dissolve so I get a smaller dosage more spread out.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57440558/study-links-calcium-pills-to-heart-attacks/

[Raipizo]

Just to clarify, I am glad at what you do Dale not many people have the skill or interest to do so. And you're one of the better herb dealers around. I wasn't trying to belittle you if that's what you thought.

[Dale Dugas]

I am not worried about you.

The net ghosts slandered and libeled Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine before doing their due diligence.

Seems they feel its not legitimate but here in Massachusetts it is and we are licensed through the same Board of Registration in Medicine.

The Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine licenses more than 40,000 physicians, osteopaths and acupuncturists. The Board was created in 1894 to protect the public health and safety by setting standards for the practice of medicine and ensuring that doctors who practice in the Commonwealth are appropriately qualified and competent. The Board investigates complaints, holds hearings and determines sanctions. More information is available at www.mass.gov/massmedboard

[Raipizo]

That's a big test 400 questions, but it shows how serious they are with medical licenses.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

The net ghosts need to understand something.

Acupuncture is considered legitimate enough in Massachusetts that our licenses to practice are obtained through the Board of Registration in Medicine. The exact same place Medical Doctors have to get their licenses.

The Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine licenses more than 40,000 physicians, osteopaths and acupuncturists. The Board was created in 1894 to protect the public health and safety by setting standards for the practice of medicine and ensuring that doctors who practice in the Commonwealth are appropriately qualified and competent. The Board investigates complaints, holds hearings and determines sanctions. More information is available at www.mass.gov/massmedboard

Also many doctors take a national board exam with 200 questions.

For my National Boards I had to take 400.

So if you going to insult Acupuncture and Chinese medicine. Maybe one should do some research before making asinine statements.

Again anyone can come visit me, contact me and see for themselves what I do. I do not hide anything about my life.

Who are you guys again?

oh, thats right, just some net ghosts who feel they can hide, snipe and slander/libel those who try and make a difference in their community.

I treat Veterans of all ages for free with acupuncture and have had great results.

What have you done for local Veterans?

And the DOD gave my school, the New England School of Acupuncture a multimillion dollar grant to study an ear acupuncture protocol for the treatment of PTSD. What have you done to help?

Funny that if we acupuncturists were not legitimate, why would they waste their money?

I give away more Dit Da Jow free and as donations than any other supplier in the world. And it has helped many people here on KFM and other boards. What do you do to help people suffering from injuries, etc?

My door is open.

Too bad yours will never be.

So?

State sanctioning has nothing to do with anything.

Homeopaths can perform surgery in Arizona, and they're killing people in the process:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/07/24/what-the-hell-is-homeopathic-surgery/

Doesn't mean it's legit.

I'm glad you help veterans. Whether I do or do not help veterans has nothing to do with anything.

Maximum trolling because, again, I have trouble believing that anyone is actually dumb enough to try and argue that way. Although some people might be dumb enough to believe it... probably the same type of people who believe stage tricks are because of qi rather than physics.

[Dale Dugas]

The only troll here is the one bickering about things they know nothing about.

Brings up James Randi, Homepathy and other drek as he cannot find any studies where more people have been killed by Chinese Herbs than Western medicine.

too bad so sad.

Enough of this bickering.

Why not leave people alone who are not hurting anyone and helping their community rather than what you are doing.

which is nothing.

[Jimbo]

In 2004 I had a very bad case of "tennis" or "pitcher's" elbow. I had it for over a couple weeks. A friend of mine who is a very experienced acupuncturist came back visiting, and offered to give me a free session (he brings his needles when he travels). The session took maybe 30 to 40 minutes. By the next morning, it was completely gone, and never came back.

That was my first acupuncture session, and it worked the first time. And although I was hopeful it would work, I also had some inner doubts that it would. So it wasn't power of suggestion. But the important thing is that it worked, and I did NOT need to be injected with cortisone or any other harmful drugs. Will it always work that quickly with one session? No. But the fact is that it can and does work.

Eastern and Western medicine have their places. You cannot single out Eastern only as quack medicine. The number of people who die each year as a result of mistakes by Western medical doctors alone is catastrophic.

[Vajramusti]

In 2004 I had a very bad case of "tennis" or "pitcher's" elbow. I had it for over a couple weeks. A friend of mine who is a very experienced acupuncturist came back visiting, and offered to give me a free session (he brings his needles when he travels). The session took maybe 30 to 40 minutes. By the next morning, it was completely gone, and never came back.

That was my first acupuncture session, and it worked the first time. And although I was hopeful it would work, I also had some inner doubts that it would. So it wasn't power of suggestion. But the important thing is that it worked, and I did NOT need to be injected with cortisone or any other harmful drugs. Will it always work that quickly with one session? No. But the fact is that it can and does work.

Eastern and Western medicine have their places. You cannot single out Eastern only as quack medicine. The number of people who die each year as a result of mistakes by Western medical doctors alone is catastrophic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Newcombe-a now retired great tennis champion had his elbow treated with acupuncture and was able to renew his career. A very competent licensed acupuncturist has helped me with osteoarthritic
knee pain in one knee.

Competence in appropriate diagnosis and treatment are the real issues.

[TenTigers]

ok, so back to our iron palm discussion.
Y'know, every time we have these discussions, I always ask the same question, and really don't get an answer. But..I'm the guy who keeps ringing your doorbel until somebody answers.
So...
What kind of ch'i-gung/nei-gong do you do for your iron palm?
There is the usual shoulder circling, swinging
small heavenly cycle/large heavenly cycle (microcosmic orbit/macrocosmic orbit-if you prefer Mantak Chia's terminology)
Holding the urn/embracing the tree.
what others do you do? What do you do to specifically bring energy out to your hands-this can be used for healing as well.?

[Raipizo]

I do breathing qigong for a few minutes then I lower my arms palms down relaxed back up then tense for a few minutes. Then after iron palm I do the breathing again and do the arms exercise except striking forward like as if you were to palm strike someones face.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

The only troll here is the one bickering about things they know nothing about.

Brings up James Randi, Homepathy and other drek as he cannot find any studies where more people have been killed by Chinese Herbs than Western medicine.

If that is true or not, it doesn't prove anything.

Western medicine killing people does not validate the efficiacy of Chinese medicine.


too bad so sad.

Enough of this bickering.

Why not leave people alone who are not hurting anyone and helping their community rather than what you are doing.

You helping the community has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

That's like a reverse ad hominem http://smiliesftw.com/x/laugh.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

"I tell people that I do charitable things, therefore they will be more likely to agree with my side of a completely different topic because they think I am a good person!" http://smiliesftw.com/x/laugh.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

It's great that you help the community. But it's completely unrelated to anything here. Making yourself appear charitable in the eyes of this forum doesn't mean what you say is right, it just means you're charitable. Only morons would think otherwise.

Then again, your target audience is people who think qi power blocks attacks.

I see why you post the way you post.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

In 2004 I had a very bad case of "tennis" or "pitcher's" elbow. I had it for over a couple weeks. A friend of mine who is a very experienced acupuncturist came back visiting, and offered to give me a free session (he brings his needles when he travels). The session took maybe 30 to 40 minutes. By the next morning, it was completely gone, and never came back.


Awesome http://smiliesftw.com/x/bowdown.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)


That was my first acupuncture session, and it worked the first time. And although I was hopeful it would work, I also had some inner doubts that it would. So it wasn't power of suggestion. But the important thing is that it worked, and I did NOT need to be injected with cortisone or any other harmful drugs. Will it always work that quickly with one session? No. But the fact is that it can and does work.

I think accupuncture is also one of those things where not everyone is equally qualified.

Are there some good accupucturists? Sure!

Are there some nutjobs who are just trying to capitalize on the fact that some people want accupuncture? Absolutely.

Same thing with chiropractic (another scammy practice). There are some good chiropractors. Most of them are just salesmen and chiropractic isn't even a science; it's a bunch of woo.

Back to accupuncture. Can it cure some things? Yeah, probably in some cases.

Is it a secret mystic cure-all that Western medicine wants to keep down? Of course not. Are the people who think this is the case? Yes.


Eastern and Western medicine have their places. You cannot single out Eastern only as quack medicine. The number of people who die each year as a result of mistakes by Western medical doctors alone is catastrophic.

Agreed. But it's unrelated to the efficacy of Chinese medicine.

On a related note, be your own advocate. If the dr gives you drugs, research them for interactions because even tho the docs and pharmacists are supposed to do this, sometimes things slip through the cracks.

If you're supposed to have something removed, take a magic marker and write "wrong one" on the other side. There are stories of doctors amputating the wrong limb and stuff, which is tragic.

Trust doctors, but verify what they tell you. Know what you are taking and why. Know how it works.

Doctors are human. Humans make mistakes.

Research and attempt to authenticate anything anyone tells you for that matter. Like if they say they are protecting themselves with qi, but it actually seems more like physics and stage tricks, don't just believe them at face value :D

[IronWeasel]

ok, so back to our iron palm discussion.
Y'know, every time we have these discussions, I always ask the same question, and really don't get an answer. But..I'm the guy who keeps ringing your doorbel until somebody answers.
So...
What kind of ch'i-gung/nei-gong do you do for your iron palm?
There is the usual shoulder circling, swinging
small heavenly cycle/large heavenly cycle (microcosmic orbit/macrocosmic orbit-if you prefer Mantak Chia's terminology)
Holding the urn/embracing the tree.
what others do you do? What do you do to specifically bring energy out to your hands-this can be used for healing as well.?


We do:

1) Palm exercises/Heaven and earth
2) Standing meditation, "running the breath"
3) Rub in the medicine
4) Strikes on the bag
5) Breathing exercise/palms facing the floor
6) Rub in medicine
7) Throw the fingers away from the body
8) Standing meditation/Run the breath, then to the striking palm, (feel the thump)

In a nutshell

[Dale Dugas]

Many people talk about running the breath, but you want to be careful and not push or try and force the breath through the pathways taught.

Also standing teaches people how to release a lot of excess tension within the body. Yiquan and other systems who stand for long periods of time notice they can move faster, strike harder from ridding the excess tension through standing postures.

When the tension is minimal you then have more muscles fibers that are not tense, and can be then utilized in movements.

hence many internal teachers talk about standing for power. Not that standing increase strength but minimizing tension in muscle fibers means you can incorporate those fibers when needed.


How I was taught:

Arm Grabs to warm up the entire structure being entrained

Four Ways of Balancing Energy: movements to entrain basic directions and movement of the arms/hands

Throwing Fingers Away: Done here and at the end of session

Power Standing: as mentioned above.

Medicine application: done three times throughout the session

Bag Striking: Palm, Back of the Palm, Knife Edge, and a short distance strike with the palm. Be careful fingers can be damages on steel shot bags easily.

Tension Breathes: To help warm up the muscles and get ready for more standing

Medicine Application: Third time, second time is done halfway through your session, make sure the medicine is absorbed.

Shaking Hands: Shake them for a minute or so

Standing: Place hands at sides and visualize the energy moving through the body to the palms of the hands(if you train both sides or to the hand you trained).

Not complex but there are other factors that help as well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Awesome http://smiliesftw.com/x/bowdown.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)



I think accupuncture is also one of those things where not everyone is equally qualified.

Are there some good accupucturists? Sure!

Are there some nutjobs who are just trying to capitalize on the fact that some people want accupuncture? Absolutely.

Same thing with chiropractic (another scammy practice). There are some good chiropractors. Most of them are just salesmen and chiropractic isn't even a science; it's a bunch of woo.

Back to accupuncture. Can it cure some things? Yeah, probably in some cases.

Is it a secret mystic cure-all that Western medicine wants to keep down? Of course not. Are the people who think this is the case? Yes.



Agreed. But it's unrelated to the efficacy of Chinese medicine.

On a related note, be your own advocate. If the dr gives you drugs, research them for interactions because even tho the docs and pharmacists are supposed to do this, sometimes things slip through the cracks.

If you're supposed to have something removed, take a magic marker and write "wrong one" on the other side. There are stories of doctors amputating the wrong limb and stuff, which is tragic.

Trust doctors, but verify what they tell you. Know what you are taking and why. Know how it works.

Doctors are human. Humans make mistakes.

Research and attempt to authenticate anything anyone tells you for that matter. Like if they say they are protecting themselves with qi, but it actually seems more like physics and stage tricks, don't just believe them at face value :D

You made your views and stated your case.
That is enough derailing.
Get back to the topic at hand.

[Empty_Cup]

We do:

1) Palm exercises/Heaven and earth
2) Standing meditation, "running the breath"
3) Rub in the medicine
4) Strikes on the bag
5) Breathing exercise/palms facing the floor
6) Rub in medicine
7) Throw the fingers away from the body
8) Standing meditation/Run the breath, then to the striking palm, (feel the thump)

In a nutshell


Many people talk about running the breath, but you want to be careful and not push or try and force the breath through the pathways taught.

...

Can you describe more of what you mean by "running the breath?"

[sanjuro_ronin]

Can you describe more of what you mean by "running the breath?"

Think of being aware of the breath cycle you naturally have.
Then think being very in tune with it.
Then think being able to control it WITHOUT forcing your freath.
Then think being able to "direct" your breath in a specific cycle so as to be more aware of it and regulate it.

Think deep sea divers, yogis and such.

IP has specific ways of "running your breath" around your body and to your limb(s) so as to "direct" it to increase the rate of healing and other things.

[Empty_Cup]

Think of being aware of the breath cycle you naturally have.
Then think being very in tune with it.
Then think being able to control it WITHOUT forcing your freath.
Then think being able to "direct" your breath in a specific cycle so as to be more aware of it and regulate it.

Think deep sea divers, yogis and such.

IP has specific ways of "running your breath" around your body and to your limb(s) so as to "direct" it to increase the rate of healing and other things.

Do you consider this the same as Grand Circulation or something different?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Do you consider this the same as Grand Circulation or something different?

Yep.
A rose by any other name...
We tend to get hung upon names and that is at times the source of the problem.
Pro athletes know the value of visualization, studies have been done that show the "rewiring" of the brain by simply visualizing the task as opposed to actualy doing it.
Fact is that visualizing the process a body is doing does indeed allow for some degree of control over the activity, much like one can learn to hold your breath for a very long time through practice and visualization techniques that teach one to "run the breath" and to slow down the heart beat and all that other stuff.

Just because TCMA gives it an "exotic' sounding name doesn't make it any less legit.

[Empty_Cup]

Yep.
A rose by any other name...
We tend to get hung upon names and that is at times the source of the problem.
Pro athletes know the value of visualization, studies have been done that show the "rewiring" of the brain by simply visualizing the task as opposed to actualy doing it.
Fact is that visualizing the process a body is doing does indeed allow for some degree of control over the activity, much like one can learn to hold your breath for a very long time through practice and visualization techniques that teach one to "run the breath" and to slow down the heart beat and all that other stuff.

Just because TCMA gives it an "exotic' sounding name doesn't make it any less legit.

...is still a rose. Nice. I've also heard of using Grand Circulation while performing iron bone training. I'm not at that level yet but might start incorporating bottle breathing into my routine.

What you mention about imagery is interesting. There's even been shown to be a physical response to imagery: http://jp.physoc.org/content/482/Pt_3/713.short

[IronWeasel]

Can you describe more of what you mean by "running the breath?"

Running the Breath is how we refer to a breathing exercise that includes the visualization of chi/energy flow.

We do this exercise:
-at the end of class for 5 minutes.
-before striking the IP bag (morning), 5 minutes
-before striking the IP bag (evening), 5 minutes
-during stance training, about 5 minutes total

Basically,you stand in a horse stance, teeth closed, tongue on the roof of the mouth.
The right hand is over the dantien with the thumb at the navel. Left hand is covering the back of the right hand. Relaxed.

Inhale through the nose, using diaphragmatic beathing, exhale through the mouth. The breath should be cool upon exhale like blowing out a match, not hot like trying to steam up a window.

I'm not going to go into all of the meridians and things, but basically, you imagine a marble sized sphere or energy/light/chi that begins at the dantien and as you inhale, it travels down the front of your body, under the groin, past the anus, up the back via the spine, up the neck and to the top of the head. The 'ball' should travel from the dantien to the top of the head at a steady rate, at the pace of your complete inhale.

Begin exhaling from te mouth as you visualize the 'ball' travelling down the front of your forehead, then face, via the philtrum (under the nose), down the chin, neck, chest, sternum, and returning to the dantien by the completion of the exhale.

Repeat.

There are a few variations on this exercise, and also other breathing exercises like it.

If done correctly, you can 'feel' your chi/energy...

I was a skeptic, and it took me almost three weeks to feel mine. Now I know that there is something to all of it.

All of the chi-whiners ought to stop posting about proof and just TRY the exercise.



Components necessary to 'feel' the chi:

-IP medicine (...not bruise medicine)
-Run the Breath
-Strike the bag (according to protocol)




I realize that some of this post is a little vague, but it's long enough as it is.

Happy training

[sanjuro_ronin]

...is still a rose. Nice. I've also heard of using Grand Circulation while performing iron bone training. I'm not at that level yet but might start incorporating bottle breathing into my routine.

What you mention about imagery is interesting. There's even been shown to be a physical response to imagery: http://jp.physoc.org/content/482/Pt_3/713.short

Our bodies to not distinguish between what IS (reality) and what the mind tells it.
There is quite a lot of control that one can exert on the human bodily processes, even those that are "automatic".
Breath control, blood pressure control, heart rate, etc.

[Empty_Cup]

Running the Breath is how we refer to a breathing exercise that includes the visualization of chi/energy flow.

We do this exercise:
-at the end of class for 5 minutes.
-before striking the IP bag (morning), 5 minutes
-before striking the IP bag (evening), 5 minutes
-during stance training, about 5 minutes total

Basically,you stand in a horse stance, teeth closed, tongue on the roof of the mouth.
The right hand is over the dantien with the thumb at the navel. Left hand is covering the back of the right hand. Relaxed.

Inhale through the nose, using diaphragmatic beathing, exhale through the mouth. The breath should be cool upon exhale like blowing out a match, not hot like trying to steam up a window.

I'm not going to go into all of the meridians and things, but basically, you imagine a marble sized sphere or energy/light/chi that begins at the dantien and as you inhale, it travels down the front of your body, under the groin, past the anus, up the back via the spine, up the neck and to the top of the head. The 'ball' should travel from the dantien to the top of the head at a steady rate, at the pace of your complete inhale.

Begin exhaling from te mouth as you visualize the 'ball' travelling down the front of your forehead, then face, via the philtrum (under the nose), down the chin, neck, chest, sternum, and returning to the dantien by the completion of the exhale.

Repeat.

There are a few variations on this exercise, and also other breathing exercises like it.

If done correctly, you can 'feel' your chi/energy...

I was a skeptic, and it took me almost three weeks to feel mine. Now I know that there is something to all of it.

All of the chi-whiners ought to stop posting about proof and just TRY the exercise.



Components necessary to 'feel' the chi:

-IP medicine (...not bruise medicine)
-Run the Breath
-Strike the bag (according to protocol)




I realize that some of this post is a little vague, but it's long enough as it is.

Happy training

Cool. Thanks for the explanation.

[Empty_Cup]

Is there any evidence out there of required frequency of training for IP?

I have always trained and been taught 2 - 3 times per week is sufficient. It wasn't until coming on this forum that I saw some folks saying that every day training is required. Maybe it's really a question of personal goals and progression but I would think there is a point of diminishing returns in frequency of training. i.e. at some point your body needs to repair itself to get more benefit from the next training session.

Thoughts?

[Dale Dugas]

For the first two years you train daily.

The first year, you train twice a day.

The second year you train once day.

after that you train when you want.

[Empty_Cup]

For the first two years you train daily.

The first year, you train twice a day.

The second year you train once day.

after that you train when you want.

Thanks for the response. With all due respect, what is the support for this training regimen? Have there been any studies done which show this training to have the most benefit? Would one progress even faster by training three times a day in the first years, for example?

[Dale Dugas]

studies?

this was the program as outlined by my Iron Palm teacher Gene Chicoine. He told me to do it and it was done.

Training three times a day is a nice thought, but unless you are independently wealthy or can afford to bring your training gear to work, training three times a day is not really feasible.

Twice a day for the first year, seven days a week will not only train the hands but will train your focus as well.

[TenTigers]

Hey Dale, did you learn any IP from your Mantis teacher? If so, how did it differ?

[IronWeasel]

Is there any evidence out there of required frequency of training for IP?

I have always trained and been taught 2 - 3 times per week is sufficient. It wasn't until coming on this forum that I saw some folks saying that every day training is required. Maybe it's really a question of personal goals and progression but I would think there is a point of diminishing returns in frequency of training. i.e. at some point your body needs to repair itself to get more benefit from the next training session.

Thoughts?


In the beginning, the progression of strikes is gradual. Start out with ten strikes (per hand surface) and then add ten every week.

My hand was achy for about the first month, then it became accustomed to the conditioning.

To continue striking the bag twice daily after two years will continue to bring benefit, but it may thicken the hand noticably.

Striking a few times a week after the two years is to maintain the gains that you have made.

[Dale Dugas]

Rik,

I have learned my IP from Shifu Gene Chicoine.

I have not learned IP from Shifu Hagood but have talked to him about hand and finger training and one needs to be cautious and not overzealous as you can ruin your hands/fingers.

I train with smooth polished rocks and steel ball bearings for my finger training. I also train with hanging chains for my arms as well as using a copper hitter all over my body.

I am an acupuncturist so I have trained my hands but not ruined them. Strengthen not destroy is the motto of any iron skill training.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Thanks for the response. With all due respect, what is the support for this training regimen? Have there been any studies done which show this training to have the most benefit? Would one progress even faster by training three times a day in the first years, for example?

There is a fine line of diminishing returns.
Typically one gets to certain "numbers and frequencies" via direct experience and they TEND to be good for most people.
You maybe able to do MORE or perhaps should do less BUT with the schedule suggested by Dale and Iron Weasel, anyone WILL make progress.
There has NOT been any scientific studies done, other than the ones down on "Wolff's Law" and they show that more doesn't tend to be better and that there is a "peak" that one hits that no amount of increase will make it any "better".

[Empty_Cup]

studies?

...


...
There has NOT been any scientific studies done, other than the ones down on "Wolff's Law" and they show that more doesn't tend to be better and that there is a "peak" that one hits that no amount of increase will make it any "better".

Good points. I figured there is probably a lack of any formal research on this topic. In the absence of that, it seems to be more of a "pass/fail" knowledge base where you have different regimens that work. The ones that don't work result in some kind of injury/damage and overall we say "don't do that again."

So, the better question might be to ask, "What is the minimum regimen needed that still produces results?" As I mentioned before, I am aware of a regimen that trains only 2 - 3 x per week and still gets results. So from this it would seem every day training is not needed.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB2hCsCRE14

[Raipizo]

Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB2hCsCRE14

That's awesome.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's awesome.

GM Chicoine has some amazing breaks, and some of his students don't fall to far from the tree.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Another method of Ip involves what is referred to in sport circles as "time under load".
Basically instead of a prescribed number of strikes, you hit the IP bag for a prescribe time frame.
And Example is:
15 min for palm, 15 for back, 15 for side and 15 for fist for a total of 60 min.
Now, if you average about 1 second per strike, you get about 900 strikes per type of strike.
This is a more advanced system and is used by a few different schools.

[IronFist]

How many strikes per day does typical Iron Palm begin with?

I remember back in the day when I was doing Iron Body it was 20 strikes per body part per exercise per day (so like for forearms, it was 20 reps of hitting your forearms together and then 20 strikes on each forearm with the bags, etc.) and then after a certain amount of time you would increase the reps by one per week. I think it was that. I'd have to go back and check my notes.

[sanjuro_ronin]

How many strikes per day does typical Iron Palm begin with?

I remember back in the day when I was doing Iron Body it was 20 strikes per body part per exercise per day (so like for forearms, it was 20 reps of hitting your forearms together and then 20 strikes on each forearm with the bags, etc.) and then after a certain amount of time you would increase the reps by one per week. I think it was that. I'd have to go back and check my notes.

Depending on the system,but typically you would start with 10 strikes per type ( depends on the system which types but typiclaly - palm, back of hand, side, fist/or finger/ or claw/ or short range palm)
You do that twice a day for the first week, then add 10 more strikes per day till you get to 50, then do 50 each type,twice a day for a year, then add 10 more every day till you get to 100 per day twice a day, then do that for a year then cut back to 100 per day or every other day or only every 2 days, whatever your schedule permits ( maintenance phase).

Basically all the IP methods start of 2X a day for at least 2 years and then curtail to once a day for maintenance.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The "time under load" method (TUL) is similar but tinstead of counting the strikes, you time the session, but it is the same 2X a day for the first 2 years and then once a day after, BUT in this method, from what I gather, the total time once it goes to once a day is the same as it was 2X, so:
2 sessions of 30 min becomes 1 session of 60 min.

[IronFist]

Depending on the system,but typically you would start with 10 strikes per type ( depends on the system which types but typiclaly - palm, back of hand, side, fist/or finger/ or claw/ or short range palm)
You do that twice a day for the first week, then add 10 more strikes per day till you get to 50, then do 50 each type,twice a day for a year, then add 10 more every day till you get to 100 per day twice a day, then do that for a year then cut back to 100 per day or every other day or only every 2 days, whatever your schedule permits ( maintenance phase).

Basically all the IP methods start of 2X a day for at least 2 years and then curtail to once a day for maintenance.

Cool, thanks. That's kinda what I figured.

I thought I remembered reading something somewhere where it was time-based, like it had you begin with 30 minutes a day. I was like holy crap, 30 minutes a day, that would be hundreds of strikes just when you're first starting out, which seemed like way too much. I can see some beginner who wants to be super deadly hitting the bag like 500 times on his first day and hurting himself.

As I've said before, the one thing TCMA gets right is gradual increases when it comes to body conditioning. Not the 72 Consummate Arts nonsense, but Iron Palm, Iron Body, fist conditioning, etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Cool, thanks. That's kinda what I figured.

I thought I remembered reading something somewhere where it was time-based, like it had you begin with 30 minutes a day. I was like holy crap, 30 minutes a day, that would be hundreds of strikes just when you're first starting out, which seemed like way too much. I can see some beginner who wants to be super deadly hitting the bag like 500 times on his first day and hurting himself.

As I've said before, the one thing TCMA gets right is gradual increases when it comes to body conditioning. Not the 72 Consummate Arts nonsense, but Iron Palm, Iron Body, fist conditioning, etc.

My understanding of the TUL method is that it is an advanced method, done typically after the "numerical" method.
After 2 years of training.
You know that guy on the youtube video with the "mutant hand"? ( that is what I call him, LOL), he does the TUL method from what I gather.

[Raipizo]

I do the timed method, except I add about a minute on a week, I've been doing it for probably 7 months now. I started out with counting strikes for awhile and figured about how many times I hit for a minute. Scaled the time back when I moved to gravel and have timed it since. I only do I.p once a day and it seems to be working fine, I do 't have pain or a huge hand.

[shanghai-mantis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4pcGR76O7U

[mengfei]

Very nice! Thank you for posting! Keep us updated during your travels, have fun and safe traveling!

[shanghai-mantis]

Very nice! Thank you for posting! Keep us updated during your travels, have fun and safe traveling!

Thanks Mengfei. Videos are going up over on my Youtube, you can go over their and check them out... uploading 1-2 per week.

[GeneChing]

Kung fu ‘master’ says sorry, backs down after Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong accepts challenge (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3036896/kung-fu-master-says-sorry-backs-down-after-chinese-mma)
Fifth generation iron palm master Sun Lei tells ‘Mad Dog’ he will break his arm – ‘I’ll show you real Chinese kung fu’
Xu dares Sun to put up 200,000 yuan and fight him in Beijing, but Sun backtracks – ‘I hope you let it go maturely’
Nick Atkin
Published: 3:01pm, 8 Nov, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/11/08/b2123f56-01ef-11ea-ab68-c2fa11fa07a6_image_hires_150100.jpg?itok=lTsYt489&v=1573196467
Iron palm kung fu master Sun Lei (left) challenged Xu Xiaodong (right), and swiftly backed down. Photo: Photo: YouTube/Weibo

Xu Xiaodong has been challenged by plenty of kung fu “masters” but they don’t normally back down before he makes them eat their words in the ring.

So it was rare to see one such challenger give a sincere apology to the Chinese MMA fighter.
Fifth generation iron palm kung fu master Sun Lei issued his challenge to “Mad Dog”, calling him out in a recent video on Chinese social media.

“Xu Xiaodong, you recently are always talking smack about Chinese kung fu and iron palm kung fu. I am gonna challenge you,” he said, in comments translated by YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjQmhpYez10

“I will hit your arm and let you see how good my iron palm is. Do you accept my challenge? Let’s find a spot and I will show you. Let’s see if I can break your arm with my iron palm. I want you to understand real Chinese kung fu.”

Xu is never one to shy away from a challenge, and it wasn’t long before the video was brought to his attention.

“You said I made fun of or insulted you, what did I do?” he said in his own video. “I’ve never insulted iron palm kung fu. You dumb brain. I accept 200,000 yuan – if you hurt me you keep it, if you don’t hurt me I keep it. It’s in Beijing, let’s do it. So don’t back out.
“When did I talk smack about iron palm kung fu? All I want to do is attack tai chi,” he added. “But now these iron palm people want to talk smack about me. He’s a fraud, this stupid Sun person. I accept.

“If you can’t break my arm, you give me 200,000. Prepare the money. I’m ready for you in Beijing. I will find you. I want this money. Everybody, here’s a record. Go find him. When did I insult you ever? I want to let certain frauds go but they decide to come to me.”

It looked like Xu might have his next fight set, but, surprisingly, Sun then said sorry in a follow up video.
“I am officially apologising to Xu Xiaodong,” he said. “I’m sorry, it’s my fault. I said some things, I hope you let it go maturely. This is my apology. Please forgive me. I will support you in the future. Sorry.”
Xu accepted the apology. “I hope everyone in the marital arts world don’t listen to random rumours and slanderous advice,” he replied.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/11/08/2906700a-01f0-11ea-ab68-c2fa11fa07a6_972x_150100.png
Sun Lei apologises to Xu Xiaodong. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

“If you have any concerns please contact me, I will explain everything to you. I want to fight the fake masters.
“I hope all people in the martial arts community communicate with me. A lot of times you’re being misled by other people who spread rumours. This incident is formally ended, please don’t mention it again.”

THREADS
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
Iron Palm (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6071-Iron-Palm)

[GeneChing]

Enter to win KungFuMagazine.com's contest for Authentic Iron Palm Autographed by Phillip Starr! Contest ends 5:00 p.m. PST on 3/12/2020

http://www.kungfumagazine.com//admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/images/ezine/6474_Authentic-Iron-Palm-Sweepstake.jpg (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/authentic-iron-palm.php)

THREADS
Books by Phillip Starr (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?41438-Books-by-Phillip-Starr)
Iron Palm (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6071-Iron-Palm)

[highlypotion]

dont have one xD

[GeneChing]

See our WINNERS: Authentic Iron Palm Autographed by Phillip Starr thread (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71758-WINNERS-Authentic-Iron-Palm-Autographed-by-Phillip-Starr)


THREADS
Books by Phillip Starr (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?41438-Books-by-Phillip-Starr)
Iron Palm (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6071-Iron-Palm)