What's better?

[MightyB]

What's better for internal power development - zhan zhuang or deep horse?

[bawang]

zhang zhuang is horse stance training

[MightyB]

Zhan Zhuang or standing post - not the deep horse.

[bawang]

http://www.qgcn.net/Article/UploadFiles/wuda20070512-1-l.jpg

[MightyB]

Ok- then I'll rephrase - what's more effective for internal force development - zhan zhuang in a deep horse stance - or zhan zhuang in standing post / natural posture?

[David Jamieson]

Black Bear.

[bawang]

Ok- then I'll rephrase - what's more effective for internal force development - zhan zhuang in a deep horse stance - or zhan zhuang in standing post / natural posture?

begiiner stand high then gradually go low. do you do wing chun or something? how can you not know? even karate guys do this.

[MightyB]

... how can you not know? even karate guys do this.

funny - I was thinking the same thing about you... :p

Standing post seems to be a standard practice posture for hard core internalists i.e. the Yi Quan guys - myself coming from an "external" background - we always practiced ma bu or deep horse.

They say start high then go deeper but not too deep - so what's too deep? I've never seen much more than a gradual knee bend maybe 50 to 60 degree angle at the extreme where ma bu is 90 degree.

[bawang]

mightyb, internal guys dont like pain.

horse stance training in shaolin kung fu also imagine the chi and meridian points.

[David Jamieson]

mightyb, internal guys dont like pain.

horse stance training in shaolin kung fu also imagine the chi and meridian points.

Standing Post has NOTHING to do with horse stance. :rolleyes:

Bawang is either:

a) trolling you mighty B

or

b) misinformed himself.

Standing post is not exclusive to "internal" (god I hate that categpry, it's so effing stupid) it is within virtually all practices of qigong and nei gong.

It is more about body/breath unity and structural alignment and awareness of it.

[bawang]

actually no.

the goal of standing post in shaolin kung fu is to cultivate chi.

there is gao zhuang: high post for weak, sick and elderly, zhong zhuang , medium post, then di zhuang.

after that you replace the chi ball with a stone ball, and put weights on your thighs. or you can put a stone barbell on your back.

the final step is to stand on an actual post. it is extremely hard and engages the core.

[MightyB]

Standing Post has NOTHING to do with horse stance. :rolleyes:

Bawang is either:

a) trolling you mighty B

or

b) misinformed himself.

Standing post is not exclusive to "internal" (god I hate that categpry, it's so effing stupid) it is within virtually all practices of qigong and nei gong.

It is more about body/breath unity and structural alignment and awareness of it.

so what's your opinion about zhan zhuang? Seems simple enough to do - maybe a good morning wake up exercise.

[bawang]

the visualization of chi pathways is identical in tai chi and shaolin kung fu. its the same.

external kung fu likes to make beginners do the low stance right away to toughen them up. internal takes it easy and gradually.

[MightyB]

actually no.

the goal of standing post in shaolin kung fu is to cultivate chi.

there is gao zhuang: high post for weak, sick and elderly, zhong zhuang , medium post, then di zhuang.

after that you replace the chi ball with a stone ball, and put weights on your thighs. or you can put a stone barbell on your back.

the final step is to stand on an actual post. it is extremely hard and engages the core.

This is hard core-

---

I've done some deep horse with a 35lb dumbell on each thigh... good fun.

[bawang]

its good you did that bro, you should keep doing it.

[David Jamieson]

actually no.

the goal of standing post in shaolin kung fu is to cultivate chi.

there is gao zhuang: high post for weak, sick and elderly, zhong zhuang , medium post, then di zhuang.

after that you replace the chi ball with a stone ball, and put weights on your thighs. or you can put a stone barbell on your back.

the final step is to stand on an actual post. it is extremely hard and engages the core.


high post is not for weak. y u think that and propagate it? u r lie! lol

you are mixing up chi cultivation with strength/resitance practice. (which also includes chi cultivation of course as every exercise does)

lifting weight has different aspect. holding weight has different aspect.
supporting structure is different from those paths.

in nei gong of shaolin, you find "sitting", which is exactly as you describe and is quite seperate from standing post which is used to recalibrate the body in between exercises, or as stand alone exercise for what I described earlier (pun fully intended. :D )

[YouKnowWho]

The posture training, stance training, or ZZ whatever that you want to call it exist in many TCMA styles for different purpose. It doesn't have to do with Qi Gong only.

Here are some of the ancient Chinese "十三太保(Shi SanTai Bao) - 13 Taibao" training.

1. 旱地拔葱 (Han Di Ba Cong) Pull onion off a dry ground
2. 李奎磨斧 (Li Kui Mo Fu) Li Kui sharps the axe
3. 仙人照鏡 (Xian Ren Zhao Jing) Angle look at mirror
4. 钝链割谷 (Dun Lian Ge Gu) Dull sickle cut rice
5. 舍身探海 (She Shen Tan Hai) Sacristy body and dive into ocean
6. 魁星点斗 (Kui Xing Dian Dou) Kui Xing points at star
7. 烏龍戏水 (Wu Long Xi Shui) Black dragon plays with water
8. 羅漢观天 (Luo Han Guan Tian) Lou Han looks at sky
9. 燕子超水 (Yan Zi Chao Shui) Swallow skips water
10. 合卧 (He Wo) Combine stance
11. 古樹盤根 (Gu Shu Pan Gen) Old tree twist the root
12. 托天式 (Tuo Tian Shi) Lift the sky
13. 三平 (San Ping) Three plains

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8945/13taibu.jpg

[bawang]

high post is not for weak. y u think that and propagate it? u r lie! lol

you are mixing up chi cultivation with strength/resitance practice. (which also includes chi cultivation of course as every exercise does)

lifting weight has different aspect. holding weight has different aspect.
supporting structure is different from those paths.

in nei gong of shaolin, you find "sitting", which is exactly as you describe and is quite seperate from standing post which is used to recalibrate the body in between exercises, or as stand alone exercise for what I described earlier (pun fully intended. :D )

i dont talk about hung kuen because i know nothing about hung kuen. when i say something i train it.

[wenshu]

high post is not for weak. y u think that and propagate it? u r lie! lol

you are mixing up chi cultivation with strength/resitance practice. (which also includes chi cultivation of course as every exercise does)

lifting weight has different aspect. holding weight has different aspect.
supporting structure is different from those paths.

in nei gong of shaolin, you find "sitting", which is exactly as you describe and is quite seperate from standing post which is used to recalibrate the body in between exercises, or as stand alone exercise for what I described earlier (pun fully intended. :D )

I are why but have no understand, what.