Provable Internal Energy; Unbendable Arm

[Foiling Fist]

When water is rushing through a fire hose at a high pressure rate, and flowing out of the nozzle, it is nearly impossible to bend sideways. This is due to the internal strength of the water flowing within.

This is the same energy that is used in internal martial arts, and is strenghtened with the training method 'Unbendable Arm', made famouse by Aikido Grandmaster Uyshiba.
See : http://aikidoforbeginners.blogspot.com/2007/06/unbendable-arm.html

[sanjuro_ronin]

A physics class wouldn't kill you and once you got that down, maybe some reading on biomechanics too.

[YouKnowWho]

'Unbendable Arm',

Anybody can learn this trick within 2 minutes. Does that mean anybody can be "internal" master quickly?

When fire fighters hold tarp for people to jump on it. It's the same explaination that "extension" force bounce vertical force back. In the "unbendable arm" example, the vertical force is bounced (transmitted) into the ground by both persons feet.

Even my female student could demonstrate this in public.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxazd0dK7EM

[sihing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CzgDX9lGc0 , more like 15 seconds to learn...

J

[wenshu]

CrossFat and Qi Magic together at last!

[Foiling Fist]

Responding to:
'Anybody can learn this trick within 2 minutes. Does that mean anybody can be "internal" master quickly? '

Yes and no. Anybody can get some strength by using this method, not likely most would have full strength though, unless facing death.

Everyone has Qi (Chi): it is part of the life force; without it you would be dead. When high in Qi, you have greater stamina, when low you are sick and/or tired. This essence is similar to the Indian Yoga concept of Prajna.

Infants flow their Qi better than most adults, are less uptight, learn faster, and more natural, animalistic as well as limber. As most are processed by overly structured education, religion, cultural and social constraints, blocks are put up to free expression. Just as un-oiled leather becomes rigid; so do our connective tissues, and most as they get older cannot stretch as far as when they were young. Any chiropractor will tell you how we loose joints do to lack of use, and when not bent; two connecting bones will fuse together into one.

Watch a tiger move, do you see an erector set, or a pulley system of tendons? I see wave actions, animals have unblocked Qi, and keep limber.

Place a penny in an infant’s (6 months) palm, in the middle and let him close his had over it to wrap the penny in a fist. Gently try and pry the fist open to get the penny, gradually and evenly exerting increasing pressure to pry the fist open with your fingertips. Even a full grown man will have difficulty opening the infant’s hand. Why: the man has more muscle, yet the infant is using his Qi intrinsically.

Does this mean that every infant is Qigong master; no. What it does mean that we all have some incredible power that we can tap into with training.

Responding to:
‘A physics class wouldn't kill you and once you got that down’.

Fluid dynamics, is a good related study of how Qi works. It is usually only studied by aeronautical engineers.

We are 80% water, so some of the best Buddhist meditative and Qigong methods will refer to this property, without the concept of wetness (surface tension etc.).

The physics term resonance might help, see: http://www.intuitor.com/resonance/index.php

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fluid dynamics, is a good related study of how Qi works. It is usually only studied by aeronautical engineers.

We are 80% water, so some of the best Buddhist meditative and Qigong methods will refer to this property, without the concept of wetness (surface tension etc.).


No.
I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, speciality in pressure vessels and pressure piping.
So, obviously, fluid, steam, high temp and high pressure are things I know a "tad" about.
They have very little to do with how the HUMAN body works, which must be applied via human biomechanics.
Just like all physics MUST be "translated" to human biomechanics.

[Frost]

No.
I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, speciality in pressure vessels and pressure piping.
So, obviously, fluid, steam, high temp and high pressure are things I know a "tad" about.
They have very little to do with how the HUMAN body works, which must be applied via human biomechanics.
Just like all physics MUST be "translated" to human biomechanics.

owned, spanked and put to bed

[CFT]

When water is rushing through a fire hose at a high pressure rate, and flowing out of the nozzle, it is nearly impossible to bend sideways. This is due to the internal strength of the water flowing within.

This is the same energy that is used in internal martial arts, and is strenghtened with the training method 'Unbendable Arm', made famouse by Aikido Grandmaster Uyshiba.
See : http://aikidoforbeginners.blogspot.com/2007/06/unbendable-arm.htmlI'm sure 'taai gihk yahn' can give us the official anatomical reasons why everyone has an unbendable arm and I very much doubt Qi will feature in the explanation. [EDIT] Should have guessed, he's done it already ... http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1101584&postcount=74

My thinking is that the elbow joint is being 'tested' in the same plane of its natural motion, hence it is adequately supported by the muscles around the joint, and so cannot be bent against the will of the testee.

[Foiling Fist]

When one uses muscle, the muscles tendons become larger and are pumped up with more blood (body builders use this). The arm is rigid, and the arm is tense.

When one uses Qi, the arm has muscle tone, but not the tension associates with contracting the tendon.

The condition of the arm is not as flaccid as when limp, when Qi is flowed.

Regarding:
'My thinking is that the elbow joint is being 'tested' in the same plane of its natural motion, hence it is adequately supported by the muscles around the joint, and so cannot be bent against the will of the testee. '

This does not explain why the elbow will bend when limp.

Regarding:
'I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, '

Your bias is mechanical, as your degree implies, an expert would be an aeronautical engineer or physicist in wave theory and propagation; wave propagation occurs electrically also.

Mechanical Engineering was one of the last to get with the program of wave theory; that was developed in the late 1960's by physicists, not mechanics. I was fortunate to be taking physics when this was being developed.

Those that are seriously interested in studying this might start at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave

[Hendrik]

When one uses muscle, the muscles tendons become larger and are pumped up with more blood (body builders use this). The arm is rigid, and the arm is tense.

When one uses Qi, the arm has muscle tone, but not the tension associates with contracting the tendon. ,,,,,,,,,




Foiling Fist,

Have you actually train in any type of Qigong and learning how Qi works in term of healing , strengthening the body, and martial applications such as power generation?

If yes, could you please share your view in the above three areas on how Qi works?

In my opinion, I am interested in how to make it happen instead of Scientific or Physics.... because those are just theory and doesnt go any where most of the time.


Thanks in advance.


For me, the unbendable arm is just showing a simplicitic example of proper biomechenics structure. Sure, in a proper biomechenics structure , Qi will flow more smoothly but it is not the expression of Qi alone. Neither is the mind too.
So this case, there is a proper biomechanics structure to begin with the mind is just there to keep the structure stay proper, the Qi strengthen the structure further.


from my personal experience,
Qi exist, and it could be used to enhance biomechanics structure in term of strenght and flexibility and mobility. however, that is not what people advertist as the Qi blast....etc.
Without Qi in the training the biomechanics will no be able to carry up or enhance to a certain level. not to mention without intention involve the Qi is just follow its own path and thus to move the Qi intention is needed. Thus, again, there is no Qi blast with Qi as the only element alone.

[Kevin73]

It is about relaxing, and is a good way to get beginners to understand how their MUSCLES work.

Unbendable arm: One of the jobs of the bicep is to shorten and bring the forearm up, thus bending the arm. On of the jobs of the triceps is to straighten the arm.

The trick has nothing to do with qi, but understanding that if you flex the bicep or have tension in it, then you are telling the arm to bend and the bicep will flex and bend the arm as it's meant to do. By using the visualization, you are relaxing that bicep and actually contracting the tricep which will straighten the arm and then you use that muscle in a strong position to keep it from bending.

Most beginners when they get that force to bend the arm, will start to fight it and "muscle" it, which translates to the biceps being activated and curling the arm and it bends.

Again, this has nothing to do with chi, but everything to do with only using the muscles that need to be in action.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is about relaxing, and is a good way to get beginners to understand how their MUSCLES work.

Unbendable arm: One of the jobs of the bicep is to shorten and bring the forearm up, thus bending the arm. On of the jobs of the triceps is to straighten the arm.

The trick has nothing to do with qi, but understanding that if you flex the bicep or have tension in it, then you are telling the arm to bend and the bicep will flex and bend the arm as it's meant to do. By using the visualization, you are relaxing that bicep and actually contracting the tricep which will straighten the arm and then you use that muscle in a strong position to keep it from bending.

Most beginners when they get that force to bend the arm, will start to fight it and "muscle" it, which translates to the biceps being activated and curling the arm and it bends.

Again, this has nothing to do with chi, but everything to do with only using the muscles that need to be in action.

Kevin is correct, it is not about NOT using muscles ( which is impossible) but about using the correct ones.
By the way, the way the unbendable arm is done typically with the arm on the shoulder of the bender, is far easier that the old way I was taught and saw by the likes of Shioda and Kimeada and others.

[Darthlawyer]

When water is rushing through a fire hose at a high pressure rate, and flowing out of the nozzle, it is nearly impossible to bend sideways. This is due to the internal strength of the water flowing within.

This is the same energy that is used in internal martial arts, and is strenghtened with the training method 'Unbendable Arm', made famouse by Aikido Grandmaster Uyshiba.
See : http://aikidoforbeginners.blogspot.com/2007/06/unbendable-arm.html

Did you actually READ the link you posted? If you did, you would have read:

The explanation of the unbendable arm is that it is not a feat of "energetics," but of mere physical strength, albeit proper use of strength. When the demonstrator first introduces unbendable arm, you are asked to "make a fist" and/or "use all of your muscle" to keep your arm from being bent. You do this by tightening the "big-bellied" muscles of the arm-the biceps specifically. When the demonstrator applies pressure to your arm, it bends because the muscles you have engaged are not the muscles needed to resist the pressure on your arm but are, in fact, the exact muscles that move your arm in the same direction as his pressure, i.e. the biceps bend the arm.

...

The method to keep someone from bending your arm in this exercise is correct and is most impressive, but the explanation of "life energy" (or any other explanation besides the use of the triceps) is wrong.
Knowing the real secret of the unbendable arm has been very helpful to me in examining the mechanics of other martial art techniques-throws, locks, punches, pushes, etc. It has also helped me to steer clear of the "Masters" who have other tricks that lead students far off the path. In other words, do not discount a method merely because it is incorrectly explained, but beware.

[YouKnowWho]

The unbendable arm is no different from the Taiji "Beng Jing" that unify your body as one unit. If you have it, it's very difficult for anybody to apply joint locking on you in stand up situation.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Did you actually READ the link you posted? If you did, you would have read:

The explanation of the unbendable arm is that it is not a feat of "energetics," but of mere physical strength, albeit proper use of strength. When the demonstrator first introduces unbendable arm, you are asked to "make a fist" and/or "use all of your muscle" to keep your arm from being bent. You do this by tightening the "big-bellied" muscles of the arm-the biceps specifically. When the demonstrator applies pressure to your arm, it bends because the muscles you have engaged are not the muscles needed to resist the pressure on your arm but are, in fact, the exact muscles that move your arm in the same direction as his pressure, i.e. the biceps bend the arm.

...

The method to keep someone from bending your arm in this exercise is correct and is most impressive, but the explanation of "life energy" (or any other explanation besides the use of the triceps) is wrong.
Knowing the real secret of the unbendable arm has been very helpful to me in examining the mechanics of other martial art techniques-throws, locks, punches, pushes, etc. It has also helped me to steer clear of the "Masters" who have other tricks that lead students far off the path. In other words, do not discount a method merely because it is incorrectly explained, but beware.

Him? read?
LMAO !!!
Jou berry funnee man !

[Hendrik]

The unbendable arm is no different from the Taiji "Beng Jing" that unify your body as one unit. If you have it, it's very difficult for anybody to apply joint locking on you in stand up situation.


For me, Peng Jing has more then unbendable arm practice.
Peng has a Qi layer which superimpose with the physical layer in design, eventhough, some might not activate it at will or knowing this layer's exist and could be train.

[YouKnowWho]

For me, Peng Jing has more then unbendable arm practice.
Peng has a Qi layer which superimpose with the physical layer in design, eventhough, some might not activate it at will or knowing this layer's exist and could be train.
The day that you can apply Peng Jing in:

- boxing upper cut,
- WC Tang Shou,
- Taiji Peng,
- XingYi Zuan Quan,
- SC 架墚(Jia Liang), or
- Uechi Ryu ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_joSS_Y7ro

The day that you will not argue "my style is better than your style" any more.

[Hendrik]

The day that you can apply Peng Jing in:

- boxing upper cut,
- WC Tang Shou,
- Taiji Peng,
- XingYi Zuan Quan,
- SC 架墚(Jia Liang), or
- Uechi Ryu ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_joSS_Y7ro

The day that you will not argue "my style is better than your style" any more.


Let's take away the

The day that you will not argue "my style is better than your style" any more.

and focus on what is Peng Jing, unless we know what it is we really dont know the full story. So, what is a Peng Jing?

[YouKnowWho]

what is a Peng Jing?
If you have it, there will be no need to talk about it. If you (general YOU) don't have it, talk about it will have no meaning.

[Hendrik]

If you have it, there will be no need to talk about it. If you (general YOU) don't have it, talk about it will have no meaning.


I have a different view compare with you.

I believe everything needs to be well define. Otherwise, it is confusion.

TCMA in the west needs to define and clearly let others know what is what.

There is nothing personal but like topic in the physics that it is clearly define and could be discussed to agree and disagree with.

The meaning of discussion is to make thing even more clear for both parties.



As for have it or not, that is not the focus of the discussion.

[YouKnowWho]

The meaning of discussion is to make thing even more clear for both parties.

Any detail discussion will always end with "only good for fighting in dreams and movie sets!". It's better just to touch the surface and move on.

A: What's TCMA?
B: TCMA = "head hunting".
A: :confused:

[Hendrik]

Any detail discussion will always end with "only good for fighting in dreams and movie sets!". It's better just to touch the surface and move on.


I disagree.

Peng Jing is a mechanic of Taiji. so if one needs to evalute the fighting potential of Taiji, That needs be investigated clearly.
But to describe what is Peng Jing is not even detail but what it is.


here has a description of Peng jing.
陈氏太极拳所说的掤劲，就是一般拳家所说的内劲。洪均生先生认为：太极拳的内劲，是指螺旋运动的顺、逆互变 ，持久锻炼自然产生的，能在内里变化的缠丝劲。陈发科先生称这种劲为掤劲。　
http://blog.66wz.com/?uid-199961-action-viewspace-itemid-68737



Saying that I accept others who might only focus on other angle. and it is not everyone's interest.

[YouKnowWho]

That needs be investigated clearly...

A: What's Peng Jing?
B: Peng Jing is ...
C: Did you ever use your Peng Jing in a real street fight?

B: I didn't.
C: Then it's only good for fighting in dreams.

B: I did.
C: Show me a youtube clip. no clip -> never happened.

The deeper that you get yourself into any discussion, the more that you may just make a fool out of yourself.

[Hendrik]

A: What's Peng Jing?
B: Peng Jing is ...
C: Did you ever use your Peng Jing in a real street fight?

B: I didn't.
C: Then it's only good for fighting in dreams.

B: I did.
C: Show me a youtube clip. no clip -> never happened.

The deeper that you get yourself into any discussion, the more that you may just make a fool out of yourself.


you have a excellent point according to your logic. however, that is not the only logic in this world.

also, Peng Jing is a type of physical phenomenon. youtube or not it is there.

now, get back to the subject, what is that physical phenomenon which is called Peng Jing in Chinese?


According to

陈氏太极拳所说的掤劲，就是一般拳家所说的内劲。洪均生先生认为：太极拳的内劲，是指螺旋运动 的顺、逆互变 ，持久锻炼自然产生的，能在内里变化的缠丝劲。陈发科先生称这种劲为掤劲。


for me, it is just describing a spiral expanding outward trajectory force. youtube or not figthing or not fighting everyone using it at one time or another.

[bawang]

explain peng jing, wing chun man.

[YouKnowWho]

... a spiral expanding outward trajectory force...

Don't say that I didn't warn you. In a shallow forum like this, it's safe to have just shallow discussion like the following:

A: What's Peng Jing?
B: Peng Jing is the force that can be used to beat the sh!t out of you.

[Hendrik]

Don't say that I didn't warn you. In a shallow forum like this, it's safe to have just shallow discussion like the following:

A: What's Peng Jing?
B: Peng Jing is the force that can be used to beat the sh!t out of you.



Good advise, thanks!

[Foiling Fist]

Hydraulics does involve fluids, and has some fluid dynamics computationals related, but is not fluid dynamics.

Hydraulics Definition
'Study of liquids at rest and in motion, specially under pressure, and application of that knowledge in design and control of machines. In comparison, pneumatics is concerned with gases and their behavior under pressure.'

From: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/hydraulics.html

Hydraulics
'The branch of engineering that focuses on the practical problems of collecting, storing, measuring, transporting, controlling, and using water and other liquids. It differs from fluid mechanics, which is more theoretical and includes the study of gases as well as liquids; and from hydrology, which is the study of the properties, distribution, and circulation of the Earth's water.'

From: http://www.answers.com/topic/hydraulics

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/hydraulics#ixzz1Lp7psv8g

---------------

Definition of Fluid Dynamics:
'Fluid dynamics is the study of fluids (liquids and gases) in motion, and the effect of the fluid motion on fluid boundaries, such as solid containers or other fluids. Fluid dynamics is a branch of fluid mechanics, and has a number of subdisciplines, including aerodynamics (the study of gases in motion) and hydrodynamics (liquids in motion). These fields are used in such wide-ranging fields as calculating forces and moments on aircraft, the mass flow of petroleum through pipelines, prediction of weather patterns, and even traffic engineering'

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Fluid_dynamics


No.
I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, speciality in pressure vessels and pressure piping.

So, obviously, fluid, steam, high temp and high pressure are things I know a "tad" about..

Since you are confused between Fluid Dynamics and Hydraulics, perhaps you should request a refund of the cost of your engineering degree, it did not help you much.

[Scott R. Brown]

Everyone here needs to be VERY clear about at least ONE thing.....

...the unbendable arm has NOTHING to do with strength and EVERYTHING to do with biomechanics. It is 100% technique/trick and 0% strength!

The same principle applies to the wrist under certain conditions. I used to deal with my arrogant Aikido partners by giving them an unbendable wrist to play with. It was a conundrum they just couldn't figure out! I had a blast messing with them! LOL!:D;)

Just another bunch of know-it-alls thinking they know about ki, but only know what they've been told and have read, and know nothing about it in actual practice!:rolleyes::eek:

[CFT]

Regarding:
'I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, '

Your bias is mechanical, as your degree implies, an expert would be an aeronautical engineer or physicist in wave theory and propagation; wave propagation occurs electrically also.

Mechanical Engineering was one of the last to get with the program of wave theory; that was developed in the late 1960's by physicists, not mechanics. I was fortunate to be taking physics when this was being developed.

Those that are seriously interested in studying this might start at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaveWave theory of what?

d’Alembert published a formula for the solution of the wave equation in 1747.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/D%27Alembert%27s+equation

Thomas Young was already investigating the wave theory of light in the early 1800's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Young_%28scientist%29#Wave_theory_of_light

Even the wave-particle duality observed in quantum mechanical experiments occured in the 1920's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality#Developmental_milest ones

So where exactly does the 1960's fit into this? You mean you learned of wave theory in the 60's and assumed it was invented for your edification?

I doubt very much that the Mech Eng world knew nothing of wave theory prior to the 1960's. I can't be arsed to do the research. I'm sure other's can (again) point out the error of your ways.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hydraulics does involve fluids, and has some fluid dynamics computationals related, but is not fluid dynamics.

Hydraulics Definition
'Study of liquids at rest and in motion, specially under pressure, and application of that knowledge in design and control of machines. In comparison, pneumatics is concerned with gases and their behavior under pressure.'

From: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/hydraulics.html

Hydraulics
'The branch of engineering that focuses on the practical problems of collecting, storing, measuring, transporting, controlling, and using water and other liquids. It differs from fluid mechanics, which is more theoretical and includes the study of gases as well as liquids; and from hydrology, which is the study of the properties, distribution, and circulation of the Earth's water.'

From: http://www.answers.com/topic/hydraulics

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/hydraulics#ixzz1Lp7psv8g

---------------

Definition of Fluid Dynamics:
'Fluid dynamics is the study of fluids (liquids and gases) in motion, and the effect of the fluid motion on fluid boundaries, such as solid containers or other fluids. Fluid dynamics is a branch of fluid mechanics, and has a number of subdisciplines, including aerodynamics (the study of gases in motion) and hydrodynamics (liquids in motion). These fields are used in such wide-ranging fields as calculating forces and moments on aircraft, the mass flow of petroleum through pipelines, prediction of weather patterns, and even traffic engineering'

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Fluid_dynamics



Since you are confused between Fluid Dynamics and Hydraulics, perhaps you should request a refund of the cost of your engineering degree, it did not help you much.

Wow, do you even READ what you write? LMAO !!

What has happened that THIS is the quality of trolls we get now?
Seriously, this is a tad insulting for Us.

[Foiling Fist]

Externalist (machine/muscle-heads) cannot keep their arm stationary, without flexing the muscles; and explain it without using Qi.

Here is how to test:
1) muscle use will show the muscles enlarged with blood,
the arm-hand will be rigid and/or spring back reactively.
2) when using Qi, the arm will have a little flexibility, but not much: like rattan.
3) the tissue response from being pressed down is more resilient,
than when limp yet has more give than when contracted muscularly.

If it were just the joints locking, without muscle tension, no explanation is given as to how this done consciously. Even if this were to be explained, it does not explain why the muscle tissue is neither limp nor flexed.

[SimonM]

tl;dr

Problem?

[Scott R. Brown]

Cut/Paste....

Cut/Paste...

Don't bother thinking or reading just....

Cut/Paste....

Cut/Paste...

[Foiling Fist]

Good question: Wave theory of what?

The Slinky was developed in the 1940s for wave modeling.

Although Kinematic Wave Theory, in particular was obscurely developed much later than the 1920's; by Lighthill and Whitham in 1955;
the modeling apparatus for applying kinetic wave theory widely did not occur till the 1960s with water vats and the suspended bars wave machine; otherwise known as a torsion bar wave machine.

In the 1950s and 60s the kinematic wave theory was used by a number of investigators to describe glacial motion.

Kinematic wave models of network vehicular traffic; were not developed until 1960.

http://www.its.uci.edu/~wjin/publications/jin2003dissertation.pdf

“A torsion bar wave-machine is then used to repeat these experiments to demonstrate reflection and other phenomena “: from the National Research Council (U.S.) Office of Scientific Personnel - 1963 – Education.

See: http://books.google.com/books?id=_0ArAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=%22Torsion+bar+wave+machine%22+-hair&source=bl&ots=gyosjBzWM4&sig=ZOu82c3DmOh3JFSE8EV6CaFqS1c&hl=en&ei=s4IDTsH6DIO4sQO6vKCMDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22Torsion%20bar%20wave%20machine%22%20-hair&f=false


Wave theory of what?

d’Alembert published a formula for the solution of the wave equation in 1747.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/D%27Alembert%27s+equation

Thomas Young was already investigating the wave theory of light in the early 1800's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Young_%28scientist%29#Wave_theory_of_light

Even though wave-particle duality observed in quantum mechanical experiments occured in the 1920's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality#Developmental_milest ones

So where exactly does the 1960's fit into this? You mean you learned of wave theory in the 60's and assumed it was invented for your edification?

I doubt very much that the Mech Eng world knew nothing of wave theory prior to the 1960's. I can't be arsed to do the research. I'm sure other's can (again) point out the error of your ways.

[SimonM]

Good question: Wave theory of what?

The Slinky was developed in the 1940s for wave modeling.

Although Kinematic Wave Theory, in particular was obscurely developed much later than the 1920's; by Lighthill and Whitham in 1955;
the modeling apparatus for applying kinetic wave theory widely did not occur till the 1960s with water vats and the suspended bars wave machine; otherwise known as a torsion bar wave machine.

In the 1950s and 60s the kinematic wave theory was used by a number of investigators to describe glacial motion.

Kinematic wave models of network vehicular traffic; were not developed until 1960.

http://www.its.uci.edu/~wjin/publications/jin2003dissertation.pdf

“A torsion bar wave-machine is then used to repeat these experiments to demonstrate reflection and other phenomena “: from the National Research Council (U.S.) Office of Scientific Personnel - 1963 – Education.

See: http://books.google.com/books?id=_0ArAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=%22Torsion+bar+wave+machine%22+-hair&source=bl&ots=gyosjBzWM4&sig=ZOu82c3DmOh3JFSE8EV6CaFqS1c&hl=en&ei=s4IDTsH6DIO4sQO6vKCMDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22Torsion%20bar%20wave%20machine%22%20-hair&f=false

So what?

Just because a certain wave model can be used to model traffic congestion patterns does NOT mean that the force can let you magically move stuff with telekinesis.

This is what we call a non-sequitur.

[YouKnowWho]

2) when using Qi, the arm will have a little flexibility, but not much: like rattan ...

I can see sometime it's nice to have a "communist" in this forum. As long as that person is here, there is no need for any left wing liberal to argue with Glenn Beck.

[SimonM]

What? Who? Me?

I'm not a communist, I'm a democratic socialist. There's a difference. :p

[YouKnowWho]

What? Who? Me?

I'm not a communist, I'm a democratic socialist. There's a difference. :p

I'm talking about our MMA friends here. :D

1. TCMA guys who believe in Qi - right wing conservative.
2. TCMA guys who don't believe in Qi - left wing liberal.
3. MMA guys who don't believe in TCMA - communist.

When Mao Zedong argues with Glenn Beck, Bill Maher can just STFU.

[David Jamieson]

No.
I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, speciality in pressure vessels and pressure piping.
So, obviously, fluid, steam, high temp and high pressure are things I know a "tad" about.
They have very little to do with how the HUMAN body works, which must be applied via human biomechanics.
Just like all physics MUST be "translated" to human biomechanics.

I agree. This is about flexible mechanical structure and it's properties. However, the veinal system would fall into a point of interest. :p


*snip* due to :rolleyes:

Your bias is mechanical, as your degree implies, an expert would be an aeronautical engineer or physicist in wave theory and propagation; wave propagation occurs electrically also.

Mechanical Engineering was one of the last to get with the program of wave theory; that was developed in the late 1960's by physicists, not mechanics. I was fortunate to be taking physics when this was being developed.

...the human skeletal and muscular system is a flexible system that creates structures and breaks them in rapid succession. This has everything to do with bio-mechanical forces and influences and nothing to do with qi beyond it being the elan vidal that propels the person.

[CFT]

Good question: Wave theory of what?

The Slinky was developed in the 1940s for wave modeling.The slinky was first developed as a toy. Next!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slinky

[SimonM]

The slinky was first developed as a toy. Next!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slinky

Ah, you are forgetting the secret history of the Slinky. A hint: It was part of a grand Rotarian conspiriacy.

[Scott R. Brown]

I thot slinky was a description of wiminz clothing!

[SimonM]

I thot slinky was a description of wiminz clothing!

Yes, it describes clothes that, when removed, will "walk" down a flight of stairs.

[Syn7]

No.
I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, speciality in pressure vessels and pressure piping.
So, obviously, fluid, steam, high temp and high pressure are things I know a "tad" about.
They have very little to do with how the HUMAN body works, which must be applied via human biomechanics.
Just like all physics MUST be "translated" to human biomechanics.

omg thankyou... i really didnt feel like doing this one...


:rolleyes:

FF:

no offence guy, but maybe you should do some independant research rather than just riding other peoples theories... a lil independance goes a long way to showing whats real and whats not...

[Foiling Fist]

This explains how some of the concepts of Marrow Washing Qigong; in which the stress on the bones and muscles is increased in certain ways to increase the Qi circulation.

'Piezoelectric Effect Basics
A piezoelectric substance is one that produces an electric charge when a mechanical stress is applied (the substance is squeezed or stretched). Conversely, a mechanical deformation (the substance shrinks or expands) is produced when an electric field is applied.'

From: http://www.aurelienr.com/electronique/piezo/piezo.pdf

None of these are explained in hydraulics. Mechanical Engineering does not specialize in this at present.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Setting aside the repeatedly refuted "Qi is a thing" argument for a moment:

Your Piezoelectric Qi "revelation" is at least 22 years behind schedule.

http://bks6.books.google.com/books?id=gfBWAAAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1

http://ymaa.com/publishing/books/qigong/the_root_of_chinese_qigong













P.S.

QI IS NOT A THING

[David Jamieson]

OK, has anybody mentioned the flexor engagement being the single property of function in the unbendable arm trick yet?

All you guys going on about this or that, feel free to shut the hell up and sit the hell down.

This video will explain unbendable arm in about 5 seconds in a simple and easy way that will have you doing this trick to your friends for fun and entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CzgDX9lGc0&

you're welcome.
the end

stop with the kung fu "science" already. :p

[Robinhood]

OK, has anybody mentioned the flexor engagement being the single property of function in the unbendable arm trick yet?

All you guys going on about this or that, feel free to shut the hell up and sit the hell down.

This video will explain unbendable arm in about 5 seconds in a simple and easy way that will have you doing this trick to your friends for fun and entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CzgDX9lGc0&

you're welcome.
the end

stop with the kung fu "science" already. :p

That guy is trying to find a reason for not using intention, but does not know what he is talking about.

When the fist is closed the energy does not extend beyond the fist, and when the guy looks down his mind goes away from his intention.

That guy is a joke!.

[bawang]

internal power explained

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlkQo4QTnHQ&feature=related

[David Jamieson]

That guy is trying to find a reason for not using intention, but does not know what he is talking about.

When the fist is closed the energy does not extend beyond the fist, and when the guy looks down his mind goes away from his intention.

That guy is a joke!.

riiiight. Tony Blauer is a joke...ok then. Moving along...
dude, he just explained it exactly how it works. It has nothing to do with chi or intention or the rest of it. It is simple physical traits and body mechanics.