Hey Ross - You're wrong

[David Jamieson]

http://www.startribune.com/investigators/95692619.html

so eat it.

and expect more of this crap to come at you as you slip into ...Amerika over the next 5 years.

You'll barely notice!...No wait, you will be outraged.

[teetsao]

yep,more and more of this happening. America IS turning into Amerika.
we got Rand Paul elected in Ky this last go around,maybe we can get Ron Paul ellected in 2012. i doubt it will happen as the establishment wont let it,but we need to speak up and let our voices be heard. the "right left" paradigm just doesnt fly anymore. they are both the one and the same,democrats and republicans.same agenda,all friends ,all went to school together,all in same fraternities together all hang out together and alot of them are related.
the people who tell them what to do and control them want you and me poor and slaves.they track everything we do and everywhere we go.trying to legislate thoughts and speech through "political correctness"trying to ban guns,it is like living in 1936 germany or china.Foe now we still have some semblence of freedom,lets not waste it.
buy guns,gold,silver ,food and water. be prepared to the best of your ability.we can never have everything but we can have alot and way more than most.

[bawang]

ogm

im scare

[SimonM]

maybe we can get Ron Paul ellected in 2012.

Then you could have REAL debtors prisons!

[teetsao]

maybe for generational welfare.
Ron Paul is the only legitamate choice. even chuck dropped huck back in the last go around and now backs ron paul. he is a constitutionalist.you know the document that forged this country?? oh wait it says your candian,why are you even posting??

[donbdc]

Thanks for posting

[David Jamieson]

maybe for generational welfare.
Ron Paul is the only legitamate choice. even chuck dropped huck back in the last go around and now backs ron paul. he is a constitutionalist.you know the document that forged this country?? oh wait it says your candian,why are you even posting??

Hey now, I'm Canadian, and trust me, we have a vested interest in your politics believe it or not. Your politics effect us, your economy effects us, your military partnership effects us, etc etc.

There are only so many countries that actually really do stand together in a real sense and the US and Canada are two of them that are so intrinsically bound that nobody really realizes just how much so.

Do you know how many Canadian/American volunteers there are in your army, navy, airforce and marines right now?

I ask because I honestly don't know, but I do know that during the Vietnam war anywhere between 30 and 50 thousand Canadians fought for the USA by registering for the draft or volunteering.

Right now where I am, there are about 100k American citizens going about their day to day work in the city.

85% of all import/export traffic in Canada is US.

[teetsao]

i know man,no offense. you seem to know whats up,i have seen other posts from you. it just seems alotof people post about stuff they have no clue about.i realize a forum is for opinions,but when it comes to my country and my GOD,i am very serious.
gotta go ttyl

[CFT]

Surely it costs the government (local rather than federal I assume in these cases) more to incarcerate these individuals than the value of their debt?

[Water-quan]

he is a constitutionalist.you know the document that forged this country?

The Native Americans must find your phrasing to be most ironic.

[David Jamieson]

The Native Americans must find your phrasing to be most ironic.

I'm pretty sure Native Americans didn't really forge the nation of the USA. they were absorbed into it. And to this day are somewhat separate depending on what treaty is signed etc.

[Water-quan]

I'm pretty sure Native Americans didn't really forge the nation of the USA. they were absorbed into it. And to this day are somewhat separate depending on what treaty is signed etc.

Wow - that is a quite astonishing misunderstanding of the meaning of my comment.

[Water-quan]

By the way, I wonder what the average Native American makes of the idea that their people were 'absorbed' in to the USA. Such a nice, friendly way of putting it it.

[MightyB]

There are only so many countries that actually really do stand together in a real sense and the US and Canada are two of them that are so intrinsically bound that nobody really realizes just how much so.



If I have change in my pocket, I can count on having at least one or two of those silly Canadian coins in the mix... funny thing is- stores take them just the same. No exchange rate.

Just saying...

[SimonM]

i know man,no offense. you seem to know whats up,i have seen other posts from you. it just seems alotof people post about stuff they have no clue about.i realize a forum is for opinions,but when it comes to my country and my GOD,i am very serious.
gotta go ttyl

Your god I want no part of. Your country I have no choice about. That being said, adhering to a single law written, for the most part, over 200 years ago and adjusted piecemeal over time is not a sound strategy for maintaining a modern country.

Paul's libertarianism would be disastrous economically. As somebody who has no choice but to accept that the two countries share economic ties I don't want that.

[David Jamieson]

... adhering to a single law written, for the most part, over 200 years ago and adjusted piecemeal over time is not a sound strategy for maintaining a modern country.




...well, it's a better foundation for a government than some ethereal lady distributing swords from a lake. :p

@MightyB - I have US dollars, coins etc on me all the time. lol

[SimonM]

...well, it's a better foundation for a government than some ethereal lady distributing swords from a lake. :p



And now you must fetch me a shrubbery!

[David Jamieson]

And now you must fetch me a shrubbery!

Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni!

[Iron_Eagle_76]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/funny-pictures-cat-dog-paper-bag-shrubbery-holy-grail.jpg

[Hebrew Hammer]

I'm pretty sure Native Americans didn't really forge the nation of the USA. they were absorbed into it. And to this day are somewhat separate depending on what treaty is signed etc.

That's quite an interesting way of phrasing it, more like conquered, subjugated and almost completely wiped out...if not for modern Indian gaming, most tribes would probably be living in third world conditions on their reservations.

[David Jamieson]

That's quite an interesting way of phrasing it, more like conquered, subjugated and almost completely wiped out...if not for modern Indian gaming, most tribes would probably be living in third world conditions on their reservations.

Yep. This is what has happened to nearly every country and every culture and every civilization that ever existed.

Is there some way to make things better now? Nothing we can do about what happened 100 years ago except change how we do things now.

Many tribes DO live in third world conditions, despite large sums of money being transfered to each and every band there is. In Canada that's how it is. The corruption also exists within the tribes themselves where you see ruling families getting the lions share of federal funds and everyone else gets the minimum. Housing is built and destroyed, water systems are neglected, etc etc. people who come off the reserve get no monies from the feds and often find themselves in a world the reserve life did not prepare them for and many, inevitably fail in it.

There is some slow change coming though in that regard. the sooner the better, but healing takes time, turn about takes time, empowerment of self takes time.

We can complain a lot about the sins of our forefathers, but it achieves little and takes away from time that positive efforts can be put forth.

I'm not going to **** on myself or my ancestors for the sake of it though. I took nothing and I killed no one. Never have I slain a Buffalo or forced a child into a religious school. I didn't and I wouldn't consent to any of that.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hey Ross!

What's it like being wrong?

I've never been wrong before!

Does it hurt?

[Hebrew Hammer]

Hey Ross!

What's it like being wrong?

I've never been wrong before!

Does it hurt?

Only if you get flogged for it.

[Lucas]

Hey Ross!

What's it like being wrong?

I've never been wrong before!

Does it hurt?

You dont know may women huh?

badum-CHA!!

thank you thank you

[Hebrew Hammer]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-june-9-2011/canadian-oilverlords?xrs=synd_facebook

[wenshu]

That's quite an interesting way of phrasing it, more like conquered, subjugated and almost completely wiped out...if not for modern Indian gaming, most tribes would probably be living in third world conditions on their reservations.

http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/navajo_reservation.jpg

[Cdr.Instigator]

^^^

Anyone that lives under desert like lands, will mostly likely be living in mud huts or said, third world conditions. Who, in their right mind would endure year long droughts, ugly women and empty refrigerators.

Like Sam used to say, Move the Fuq where the food is!!

[Water-quan]

Yep. This is what has happened to nearly every country and every culture and every civilization that ever existed.

Is there some way to make things better now? Nothing we can do about what happened 100 years ago except change how we do things now.

Many tribes DO live in third world conditions, despite large sums of money being transfered to each and every band there is. In Canada that's how it is. The corruption also exists within the tribes themselves where you see ruling families getting the lions share of federal funds and everyone else gets the minimum. Housing is built and destroyed, water systems are neglected, etc etc. people who come off the reserve get no monies from the feds and often find themselves in a world the reserve life did not prepare them for and many, inevitably fail in it.

There is some slow change coming though in that regard. the sooner the better, but healing takes time, turn about takes time, empowerment of self takes time.

We can complain a lot about the sins of our forefathers, but it achieves little and takes away from time that positive efforts can be put forth.

I'm not going to **** on myself or my ancestors for the sake of it though. I took nothing and I killed no one. Never have I slain a Buffalo or forced a child into a religious school. I didn't and I wouldn't consent to any of that.

Well, for a start, you could stop peddling colonial discourses. Indians don't exist to live up to your expectations. How interesting that after 'all that past that's behind us' we're still shaking our heads at how they 'squander' what we 'give' them.

That's a whole big issue on its own, but what it's getting at is a much wider and frigtening sense that you're not stopping with the Indians.

[Water-quan]

^^^

Anyone that lives under desert like lands, will mostly likely be living in mud huts or said, third world conditions. Who, in their right mind would endure year long droughts, ugly women and empty refrigerators.

Like Sam used to say, Move the Fuq where the food is!!

That's actually pretty offensive.

[Water-quan]

You dont know may women huh?

badum-CHA!!

thank you thank you

I salute your comeback sir - well played.

[mooyingmantis]

Well, for a start, you could stop peddling colonial discourses. Indians don't exist to live up to your expectations. How interesting that after 'all that past that's behind us' we're still shaking our heads at how they 'squander' what we 'give' them.

That's a whole big issue on its own, but what it's getting at is a much wider and frigtening sense that you're not stopping with the Indians.

As a Native American, let me say that the saddest part of all is that we taught the colonists the proper methods of farming and helped them survive their first few years in this land. Perhaps mercy and good-will is sometimes a mistake.

[Syn7]

If I have change in my pocket, I can count on having at least one or two of those silly Canadian coins in the mix... funny thing is- stores take them just the same. No exchange rate.

Just saying...

actually, the canadian dollar is worth more than its american counterpart...

[Syn7]

Yep. This is what has happened to nearly every country and every culture and every civilization that ever existed.

Is there some way to make things better now? Nothing we can do about what happened 100 years ago except change how we do things now.

Many tribes DO live in third world conditions, despite large sums of money being transfered to each and every band there is. In Canada that's how it is. The corruption also exists within the tribes themselves where you see ruling families getting the lions share of federal funds and everyone else gets the minimum. Housing is built and destroyed, water systems are neglected, etc etc. people who come off the reserve get no monies from the feds and often find themselves in a world the reserve life did not prepare them for and many, inevitably fail in it.

There is some slow change coming though in that regard. the sooner the better, but healing takes time, turn about takes time, empowerment of self takes time.

We can complain a lot about the sins of our forefathers, but it achieves little and takes away from time that positive efforts can be put forth.

I'm not going to **** on myself or my ancestors for the sake of it though. I took nothing and I killed no one. Never have I slain a Buffalo or forced a child into a religious school. I didn't and I wouldn't consent to any of that.

in downtown vancouver natives make up 2% of the population but make up over 30% of the homeless... they are not doing so well over here... some are great, some are okay, most are dsyfunctional... i grew up around natives, i know exactly what they live like... in vancouver, that is... cant speak for anywhere else... but lets just say that the reserve produces a significantly higher percentage of dysfunctional households than any other race or culture... by a huge margin...

[Water-quan]

[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1102772]As a Native American, let me say that the saddest part of all is that we taught the colonists the proper methods of farming and helped them survive their first few years in this land. Perhaps mercy and good-will is sometimes a mistake.[/QUOTE

Re this very valid point, I found it pretty interesting when the fellow earlier said 'I've never killed any buffalo' - and how that re-states the fallacy that Native Americans where all hunters drifting across the plains.

I don't know what it is - maybe people feel it makes history less awful to think that nomadic hunters were simply moved to another pasture, when, in fact, most Native American communities were settled agricultural groups who farmed.

[Water-quan]

in downtown vancouver natives make up 2% of the population but make up over 30% of the homeless... they are not doing so well over here... some are great, some are okay, most are dsyfunctional... i grew up around natives, i know exactly what they live like... in vancouver, that is... cant speak for anywhere else... but lets just say that the reserve produces a significantly higher percentage of dysfunctional households than any other race or culture... by a huge margin...

By dysfunctional you mean that they don't fit in with how you think people should live - i.e. they should get a job, send the kids to school, work all day in the fish factory, stop drinking.

Soon we'll have imposed such function on Afghanistan, right?

[David Jamieson]

Bleeding hearts don't fix problems.
I'm not talking about my expectations, I'm talking about the reality of the circumstance.

I find that people tend to b*tch and complain about the past and point fingers of blame but often those very same people do little or nothing to alleviate whatever the problem is and certainly, in no instances are they offering viable alternatives.

we live in the modern world. I will not accept blame for the the sins of my ancestors, period, deal with it and move on because I'm pretty sure no one else is going to either.

trying to put words in other peoples mouths because of some clunky agenda doesn't do anything for the issue either. :rolleyes:

what are the solutions. what do you know about the flow of man and conquering armies? As a man of Scots descent i can tell you that the Scots themselves are a mix of everyone who overran their homelands over the centuries too. You don't see me whining about Norway owing me my heritage rights do you?
As I am born in Canada, I am now a "Canadian" and though I am entitled, I have to jump through hoops to get my UK passport and lo and behold, Scotland is subjugated and joined to England and Wales!


Complaints about native lands will be heard elsewhere. :mad:

[Lebaufist]

We can start a list for how many ways this will be a financial disaster for the mid western states of Ameristan.

1. Conflict of interest.
2. Cruel and unusual punishment.
3. False imprisonment.
4. Lost wages.

feel free to add to the list. if people had half a brain they would stay in jail. For every day they are in jail they will accrue punitive damages from a civil suit against the state. This will be overturned by higher courts.

[Royal Dragon]

That's quite an interesting way of phrasing it, more like conquered, subjugated and almost completely wiped out...if not for modern Indian gaming, most tribes would probably be living in third world conditions on their reservations.

Big deal, they were living in primitive hunter gatherer societies anyway....and still would be if we weren't here.

[bawang]

you guys wouldnt mind china dominating the globe then

[Royal Dragon]

^^^

Anyone that lives under desert like lands, will mostly likely be living in mud huts or said, third world conditions. Who, in their right mind would endure year long droughts, ugly women and empty refrigerators.

Like Sam used to say, Move the Fuq where the food is!!

Actually, they were originally where the food was. They got moved to the barren areas they are in AFTER they were a conquered and beaten people.

[bawang]

you have to give meat to get meat. soon it will be time to give.

[Royal Dragon]

you guys wouldnt mind china dominating the globe then

No, they have good take out.

[bawang]

yes. we are good at taking things out.

*rubs hand together

[bawang]

china is trying to invest in africa and help it develop. nigeria actually has the most dense city in the world now. eurpeans take only natural resources but china is developing trade and african consumerism.

the european countries are already having trouble attracting immigrants. they are actually competing for immigrants now. negative population growth, economic and population crash coming.

in other words cheap goods and cheap labour would trickle to a stop.

if china succeeds europeans would become irrelevant.

[Water-quan]

Bleeding hearts don't fix problems.
I'm not talking about my expectations, I'm talking about the reality of the circumstance.

I find that people tend to b*tch and complain about the past and point fingers of blame but often those very same people do little or nothing to alleviate whatever the problem is and certainly, in no instances are they offering viable alternatives.

we live in the modern world. I will not accept blame for the the sins of my ancestors, period, deal with it and move on because I'm pretty sure no one else is going to either.

trying to put words in other peoples mouths because of some clunky agenda doesn't do anything for the issue either. :rolleyes:

what are the solutions. what do you know about the flow of man and conquering armies? As a man of Scots descent i can tell you that the Scots themselves are a mix of everyone who overran their homelands over the centuries too. You don't see me whining about Norway owing me my heritage rights do you?
As I am born in Canada, I am now a "Canadian" and though I am entitled, I have to jump through hoops to get my UK passport and lo and behold, Scotland is subjugated and joined to England and Wales!


Complaints about native lands will be heard elsewhere. :mad:

That's interesting - you think a 'people' need a 'solution'.

[Water-quan]

Big deal, they were living in primitive hunter gatherer societies anyway....and still would be if we weren't here.


Actually, most Native Americans were farmers. But at least they'll be getting the benefit of a great education system. Clearly.

As for 'primitive', every time I turn the news on America has murdered or bombed someone.

And it's worth remembering - the millions of Indians who are dead due to collonialism, and most of their descendents, aren't living... at all... never mind in mud huts. I bet you couldn't build a mud hut, by the way.

[Water-quan]

you guys wouldnt mind china dominating the globe then

The Chinese are much more closely related to Indians than White folk... the tables may turn yet...

[bawang]

when atheist left wing liberals are confronted with sacrifice and self preservation, their moral relativism and brutal animalistic nature come to the surface.

if you revel in peoples misery its no longer conquering, its a blood sacrifice to demons. the massive suffering and pain feeds the daemonic power behind america.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Bleeding hearts don't fix problems.
I'm not talking about my expectations, I'm talking about the reality of the circumstance.

I find that people tend to b*tch and complain about the past and point fingers of blame but often those very same people do little or nothing to alleviate whatever the problem is and certainly, in no instances are they offering viable alternatives.

we live in the modern world. I will not accept blame for the the sins of my ancestors, period, deal with it and move on because I'm pretty sure no one else is going to either.

trying to put words in other peoples mouths because of some clunky agenda doesn't do anything for the issue either. :rolleyes:

what are the solutions. what do you know about the flow of man and conquering armies? As a man of Scots descent i can tell you that the Scots themselves are a mix of everyone who overran their homelands over the centuries too. You don't see me whining about Norway owing me my heritage rights do you?
As I am born in Canada, I am now a "Canadian" and though I am entitled, I have to jump through hoops to get my UK passport and lo and behold, Scotland is subjugated and joined to England and Wales!


Complaints about native lands will be heard elsewhere. :mad:

As a Jew and a Scottsman (Clan MacGreggor) I agree with you whole heartedly...some people love that crutch of victimization, it feeds their fears and their failures and prevents them from living in the present.

[Water-quan]

As a Jew and a Scottsman (Clan MacGreggor) I agree with you whole heartedly...some people love that crutch of victimization, it feeds their fears and their failures and prevents them from living in the present.

Modern people are living in the present.

As a comparison, the Austrian government still retains control of significantly valuable artworks stolen from Jewish families by the Nazis and their sympathisers. A significant number of Jewish families are still trying to get back this property, which belongs to them. At what point should they stop feeling victimised and just let the Austrians have it all? At what point should the rightful owners of the Klimpt paintings have just accepted that they now belong to the Austrian people, courtesy of the Nazis?

At what point should Australian aboriginees stop feeling victimised and accept that they can't have the mineral rights to their land?

The real question is - setting aside the propogandist concept of 'feeling victimised' - why anyone should simply 'let go' of their grievances? Why shouldn't they escalate their grievances instead?

As a side note on this, it's not that I'm saying people - some people - don't like to play a victim card - obviously they do. But, we have to be careful not to take that and falsely generalise to whole peoples, trivialising state level criminality by telling people to 'get over it'. Seriously - look at how people talk about the Indians, and just imagine that was Germans talking about Jews.

[Water-quan]

when atheist left wing liberals are confronted with sacrifice and self preservation, their moral relativism and brutal animalistic nature come to the surface.


Do you mean that atheist liberals have some sort of secret nature, different to all other human beings, which comes to the surface when they are under pressure?

Or do you mean that under situations of extreme stress and duress, human beings might buckle, and find themselves terrified in to giving in to baser, selfish or cowardly instincts?

Either way, is that really a profound thought, or just a statement of the obvious? Or did you think that 'truth' is determined by how much you can keep to your principles when you are placed under extreme duress?

I imagine most people can be tortured in to renouncing whatever they believe. What you mean by 'liberals' God - and you - only knows, but no one group did more to fight the Nazis and Japanese than communists, all over the world. And to try and fight the American government, and its state sponsored terrorism.

[Dragonzbane76]

every time I turn the news on America has murdered or bombed someone.

what news are you watching? fox news ? :rolleyes:

[SimonM]

you guys wouldnt mind china dominating the globe then

No, I'm cool with that. :cool:

[SimonM]

but no one group did more to fight the Nazis and Japanese than communists,

And what thanks do we get for it? Online would-be pundits with cabbage for brains (don't get me wrong, cabbage is tasty but it's not good for thinking with) go and claim the same nazis we socialists and communists fought so hard against were ideologically the same thing.

And people can make grandiose claims about how there is no morality without faith all they like but for every atheist, rationalist atrocity you can name I can give you a hundred committed in the name of faith.

[David Jamieson]

Modern people are living in the present.

As a comparison, the Austrian government still retains control of significantly valuable artworks stolen from Jewish families by the Nazis and their sympathisers. A significant number of Jewish families are still trying to get back this property, which belongs to them. At what point should they stop feeling victimised and just let the Austrians have it all? At what point should the rightful owners of the Klimpt paintings have just accepted that they now belong to the Austrian people, courtesy of the Nazis? Ok, you can honestly say this is beyond hearsay and that there isn't talks in place with legitimate claims? Because I am going to call you on that. There are legitimate claims in place and they are investigated in regards to these claims.


At what point should Australian aboriginees stop feeling victimised and accept that they can't have the mineral rights to their land? At what point are the aborigines going to admit they never mined bauxite, had a use for it and as it's not on sacred land, there's a problem? Sporadic claims popping up after significant discoveries on non-treaty land are questionable to begin with. NOt saying they don't deserve something, but I would say, there is due process to follow.


The real question is - setting aside the propogandist concept of 'feeling victimised' - why anyone should simply 'let go' of their grievances? Why shouldn't they escalate their grievances instead? There is not really a lot of ground to hear 100 year old grievances from 30 year old men. Same reason I can't get my fililal lands back from the queen that were taken a couple of centuries ago whilst my family was scattered or slaughtered by the English.


As a side note on this, it's not that I'm saying people - some people - don't like to play a victim card - obviously they do. Are you kidding? Everyone with an agenda of money, land or power plays the victim card when they don't have what they want and it doesn't matter if the claim is legit or not.




But, we have to be careful not to take that and falsely generalise to whole peoples, trivialising state level criminality by telling people to 'get over it'. Seriously - look at how people talk about the Indians, and just imagine that was Germans talking about Jews. Nobody is generalising a whole people. This is the general state of things when talks or grievances arise. If we are talking about a group, then we are talking about a group, save the weasel words for elsewhere.