Iron Palm Seminar 6/18/2011

[mooyingmantis]

This weekend my son Logan and I attended an iron palm seminar at Ahn's Taekwondo in Cincinnati, Ohio. The seminar was team taught by Rod Morgan, Shane Belisles and Bill Clark of the Iron Lotus Society.

Each presenter taught qigong exercises, proper hand striking methods on a steel shot filled bag and martial applications of iron palm training.

They provided several dit da jow liniments for us to try (shaolin, ku yu cheong, wong fei hung, etc.) free of charge.

The seminar was informative and taught in a very thorough, yet simple manner that was easy for most participants to understand.

The participants were split into small groups of two or three individuals and each had an opportunity to practice striking the training bag while one of the presenters supervised each group.

By the end of the seminar each participant was able to successfully break one patio block measuring 2" thick, 8" wide and 16" long.

The blocks were construction grade and had been purchased at Lowe's. They definitely had not been baked, cut, or tampered with in any way.

Rod performed a short power break (about 3" distance) on one block and broke a stack of three blocks without the use of spacers.
Shane and Bill performed breaks on stacks of four blocks with no spacers.

My son and I thoroughly enjoyed participating in the seminar. Rod, Shane and Bill are the real deal and their enthusiasm for what they do is infectious.

You can watch my small video clip of the seminar here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZwzxKVL1xY

[faxiapreta]

By the end of the seminar each participant was able to successfully break one patio block measuring 2" thick, 8" wide and 16" long.

Which points to IP being more about learned skill and less about toughening the hands.

And, as the demos show, nothing about how one would actually strike in a fight.

[Shima Wara]

Richard,

Thanks for the props sir! We had a lot of fun and we enjoyed learning from you as well. We appreciate the support. We hope to be able to continue the seminars over the sourse of the rest of the year.

-Bill


Faxiapreta - technique will not be the deciding factor when you break stack of four unspaced blocks, no matter how much you practice. The impact is simply too severe for an unconditioned hand. One block is a test of technique, four is not. Your argument is so obvioulsy convoluted its ridiculous. breaking one block does not equate to breaking four with an unconditioned hand. a conditioned hand will handle more impact with less damage, than an unconditioned one. period. The pain is a major stopping point when breaking or hitting. If your hand cant take it, your brain will not let you power through the blocks or target, it will put on the muscular brakes every time. Additionally, I have wrestled for years, and if someone dipped their head for a leg, I would hit them the exact same way I hit the blocks. I can also do it immediately. i do not require a warm up to break, because my hand is hard and conditioned. You would be foolish to assume we do not practice these strikes standing up and in different combat situations anyhow. We can break coconuts(on a string) that are straight in front of us. We apply every aspect of training to combat. your argument here is invalid anyway, since EVERYTHING YOU WILL EVER DO IN LIFE IS A LEARNED SKILL(yes, even body conditioning and breaking) however, there are limits if you do not train appropriately. Meaning conditioning precedes breaking logically. If you do not condition, there is a limit to how much more force you can deliver and receive on the conditioned body part.

[faxiapreta]

Faxiapreta - technique will not be the deciding factor when you break stack of four unspaced blocks, no matter how much you practice. The impact is simply too severe for an unconditioned hand. One block is a test of technique, four is not. Your argument is so obvioulsy convoluted its ridiculous. breaking one block does not equate to breaking four with an unconditioned hand.

Breaking is a learned skill, not matter how many blocks.

Here is a physics teacher explaining the physics of breaking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQSVHL4Qwe0



We can break coconuts(on a string) that are straight in front of us.

Coconuts are far different from skulls. Anyone who compares the two is seriously deluded


Additionally, I have wrestled for years, and if someone dipped their head for a leg, I would hit them the exact same way I hit the blocks.

You might "do" it, but it wouldn't have any effect. Uninformed people have been claiming to be able to downstrike grappler's heads for decades. The result is always the same. The person doing the head strike gets dumped on his @ss.

LOL @ having wrestled for years. If you had wrestled for years, you would know that grappling takedowns involve keeping the head up, not dipping it down.

Anyone who claims to have wrestled for years and then talks about dipping the head is proving himself to be a liar and loses any credibility in speaking about wrestling.

[Water-quan]

By the end of the seminar each participant was able to successfully break one patio block measuring 2" thick, 8" wide and 16" long.

The blocks were construction grade and had been purchased at Lowe's. They definitely had not been baked, cut, or tampered with in any way.



By the generally accepted KFM forum rules defining what makes someone an iron palm master, by doing this you're now all iron palm masters.

What gets me is, nomatter how many times this happens, nothing ever seems to diminish the 'reputation' of those people who claim to be iron palm masters - and sell snake oil and snake oil exercises to achieve the skill... even though all they do is do what beginners can do. And sometimes they'll even do 4 inches! As if that's impressive when, even a beginner can do 2 inches.

How long will people keep BSing thyemselves with this stuff?

[ginosifu]

Breaking is a learned skill, not matter how many blocks.

Here is a physics teacher explaining the physics of breaking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQSVHL4Qwe0

You are wrong again good ole fraxiapreta ! That was a demonstration of Japanese breaking with Spacers between each piece of wood. This type of breaking involves the weight of your hand times the speed you can swing it = the amount of power to break the first piece of wood, then each coinciding piece of wood breaks because the previous wood hits it and breaks the next piece for you. Not to call you any names but you are a bit ignorant on IP. In Chinese Iron Palm you hit concrete and there are no Spacers between any bricks you hit. The concept still applies the weight X speed, however the idea is not to swing as hard as you can to create more power (weight X Speed), to be able to break the bricks a lighter slap of an open palm. I know you have watched TeetSao vids on breaking.... they are all light slaps.



You might "do" it, but it wouldn't have any effect. Uninformed people have been claiming to be able to downstrike grappler's heads for decades. The result is always the same. The person doing the head strike gets dumped on his @ss.

LOL @ having wrestled for years. If you had wrestled for years, you would know that grappling takedowns involve keeping the head up, not dipping it down.

Anyone who claims to have wrestled for years and then talks about dipping the head is proving himself to be a liar and loses any credibility in speaking about wrestling.

I have also wreaslted since I was 12...lets see... thats over 35 yers of wrestling and Shuai Chiao experience.

Your are right about keepin your head up. That does not mean that you are not going to whacked when trying to enter. I have hit people when they attempted to enter. When trying to use any type of fighting style, whether it be MMA, BJJ, Iron Palm, Kung Fu, what ever, The person who is better skilled usually wins. Kung Fu fighters that are better skilled will beat unskilled bjj fighters. Skilled MMA fighters will beat unskilled Kung Fu fighter etc etc.

ginosifu

[Water-quan]

I have hit people when they attempted to enter.

Well, good for you - no means no.

[faxiapreta]

You are wrong again good ole fraxiapreta ! That was a demonstration of Japanese breaking with Spacers between each piece of wood. This type of breaking involves the weight of your hand times the speed you can swing it = the amount of power to break the first piece of wood, then each coinciding piece of wood breaks because the previous wood hits it and breaks the next piece for you. Not to call you any names but you are a bit ignorant on IP. In Chinese Iron Palm you hit concrete and there are no Spacers between any bricks you hit. The concept still applies the weight X speed, however the idea is not to swing as hard as you can to create more power (weight X Speed), to be able to break the bricks a lighter slap of an open palm. I know you have watched TeetSao vids on breaking.... they are all light slaps.

Speaking of ignorant...

The laws of physics don't change.

I think we've already confirmed in the other thread that you are ignorant about anatomy and physiology. I doubt you want continue on in this one to show you are also ignorant regarding physics.




Your are right about keepin your head up. That does not mean that you are not going to whacked when trying to enter. I have hit people when they attempted to enter. When trying to use any type of fighting style, whether it be MMA, BJJ, Iron Palm, Kung Fu, what ever, The person who is better skilled usually wins. Kung Fu fighters that are better skilled will beat unskilled bjj fighters. Skilled MMA fighters will beat unskilled Kung Fu fighter etc etc.

Can you hit someone moving in for a takedown and do damage? Of course you can.

Can you do it with the downward motion that those types of breaks are doing? Of course not.

If anything, learning to hit in a method that is different than the more effective ones you will need in fighting is actually counterproductive to learning effective fighting. Doing training that is counterproductive is the biggest reason that so many "traditional" training methods produce so many people that can't really apply techniques under the pressure of a resisting opponent.

[TenTigers]

the downward breaks are only one type of strike, and only an idiot would think that that is the only type of strike an iron palm practitioner practices.

IP conditions the whole hand, and the training develops power in many types of strikes.
People who train Kung-Fu, practice many different types of strikes, on many different types of bags, in order to develop power in ALL of their strikes.
This is no different than any other type of fighter.

[faxiapreta]

the downward breaks are only one type of strike, and only an idiot would think that that is the only type of strike an iron palm practitioner practices.

IP conditions the whole hand, and the training develops power in many types of strikes.
People who train Kung-Fu, practice many different types of strikes, on many different types of bags, in order to develop power in ALL of their strikes.
This is no different than any other type of fighter.

I am speaking specifically to the downward strikes that were shown in the clip. Training these specific strikes are of no use at the best and counterproductive at the worst.

[faxiapreta]

This is no different than any other type of fighter.

Most full-contact fighters generally train the same types of strikes they will use in fighting.

[TenTigers]

I am speaking specifically to the downward strikes that were shown in the clip. Training these specific strikes are of no use at the best and counterproductive at the worst.

actually...no. There is an expression in Gung-Fu-'from the large comes the small, from had, comes soft."
Large gross motor skills are learned and then refined to become short,quick strikes, that still retain a great deal of power. This is the essence of short power.
So, learning to generate this force as shown in the clips, is simply the first level of iron palm.
The idea is to learn to generate the power in shorter strikes.
Then, of course to manifest this power in various types of strikes.

I have a question for you.
Have you ever actually trained in Gung-Fu under a qualified teacher for any extended period of time? You seem to be very ignorant of TCMA on the whole.

[TenTigers]

Most full-contact fighters generally train the same types of strikes they will use in fighting.

um...that is basically what I was saying.
Your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking...

[Dale Dugas]

FP,

I for one am willing to show you how these strikes will translate to fighting in the ring.

How about you put your money where you mouth is?

We need to get you suited up in gear and I will slap you around a ring and watch how much you can deal with these strikes that according to you are not usable.

But then again we know how net ghosts are complete cowards who never come forward but are "man" enough to badmouth everything and everyone.

How about it?

[faxiapreta]

actually...no. There is an expression in Gung-Fu-'from the large comes the small, from had, comes soft."
Large gross motor skills are learned and then refined to become short,quick strikes, that still retain a great deal of power. This is the essence of short power.
So, learning to generate this force as shown in the clips, is simply the first level of iron palm.
The idea is to learn to generate the power in shorter strikes.
Then, of course to manifest this power in various types of strikes.

Learning to downward strike in that manner is counterproductive to applying it in a real situation because it is a different motion than what one would use. That is not an effective motion for striking an opponent who is fighting back.


I have a question for you.
Have you ever actually trained in Gung-Fu under a qualified teacher for any extended period of time? You seem to be very ignorant of TCMA on the whole.

My background is irrelevant. I'm not the one making the claims for things there is no evidence for.

[TenTigers]

Learning to downward strike in that manner is counterproductive to applying it in a real situation because it is a different motion than what one would use. That is not an effective motion for striking an opponent who is fighting back.



My background is irrelevant. I'm not the one making the claims for things there is no evidence for.

ok, so you're just going to repeat yourself.

your background-or lack thereof is relevant, and obvious.

[faxiapreta]

FP,

I for one am willing to show you how these strikes will translate to fighting in the ring.

How about you put your money where you mouth is?

We need to get you suited up in gear and I will slap you around a ring and watch how much you can deal with these strikes that according to you are not usable.

But then again we know how net ghosts are complete cowards who never come forward but are "man" enough to badmouth everything and everyone.

How about it?

Mr. Dugas.

Here's something much simpler, less time consuming, and will yield much more definite results.

Head down to your local MMA center... one that fields competitive fighters. Simply spar several rounds with a few of their fighters and post the video clips of you using your supposed "internal training" against their fighters.

Demonstrating that you can dominate competitive MMA fighters will go much further in proving the existence of your claims than "slapping around in a ring" some random guy who is giving you cr@p on the internet for being a snake oil charlatan.

How about you put your money where your mouth is?

Of course, we all know that will never happen. You are like all the other "sifus" who make unsubstantiated claims and then make tough guy challenges to "come see me" from behind the safety of their computer screen rarely following through with these challenges, and, when they have finally developed the guts to do so, have pretty much always been schooled for the fakes they are.

You'd rather steal people's money with your snake oil claims than actually step up into an arena that would force you to actually have to prove your claims.

[ginosifu]

Speaking of ignorant...

The laws of physics don't change.

I think we've already confirmed in the other thread that you are ignorant about anatomy and physiology. I doubt you want continue on in this one to show you are also ignorant regarding physics.


The above statement does prove anything. There is no panel of peers studies showing me wrong. Breaking wood with Spacers in between each piece with a fist is different that breaking a piece of concrete with a slap.

Are you claiming to be an Expert at brick breaking and are now lecturing me on the dynamics of Breaking? Until you can come up more proof other than opening up mouth and stating "Physics"... you have ground to stand on.

Breaking just using weight X Speed is NOT Iron Palm. But you would not know that because you are someone who is just looking from the outside and saying it does not work...

You keep saying make a clip make a clip ..... blah blah blah blah. I am almost 50 years old, I have long since retired from the ring. I do not have the time to get back into a decent enough shape to fight competively. Why don't you go to any local Iron Palm seminar close to you. You're in Cali right? Shoot up to Sunnyvale and ask Wing Lam Sifu to give you an Iron Palm Demonstartion. Instead of just blasting everyone, ehy don't you emerse yourself in the art and get a first hand view point... Then after you get your feet wet a bit, then you can blast away at us.

ginosifu

[teetsao]

if you all noticed faxiapreata just said he is soe random guy.and by saying his experience and background does not matter,he basically admits he has no background or experience in any art. as usual. case closed.

[faxiapreta]

if you all noticed faxiapreata just said he is soe random guy.and by saying his experience and background does not matter,he basically admits he has no background or experience in any art. as usual. case closed.

A person's background is irrelevant to being able to think critically and understand that claims made with no ability to provide evidence are just that... simply claims.

[YouKnowWho]

A person's background is irrelevant to being able to think critically and understanding that claims made with no ability to provide evidence are just that... simply claims.

And you just linked a general discussion to "my background" so quickly.

This is what I said.


Here is the most common TCMA "小纏絲(Xiao Chan Xi) - wrist lock".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vXM3zaBnO4

This is the conclusion according to your logic.


based on the above clip, one would have to assume "you" have almost no experience with joint locks.

Can you see that why you are not "loved" in this forum? You jump from general discussion to personal attack so quickly that you don't even realize yourself.

[faxiapreta]

The above statement does prove anything. There is no panel of peers studies showing me wrong. Breaking wood with Spacers in between each piece with a fist is different that breaking a piece of concrete with a slap.

Sorry, but the physics don't change: Force = mass x acceleration.



Breaking just using weight X Speed is NOT Iron Palm. But you would not know that because you are someone who is just looking from the outside and saying it does not work...

Iron palm still doesn't change the basic physics.


You keep saying make a clip make a clip ..... blah blah blah blah. I am almost 50 years old, I have long since retired from the ring. I do not have the time to get back into a decent enough shape to fight competively. Why don't you go to any local Iron Palm seminar close to you. You're in Cali right? Shoot up to Sunnyvale and ask Wing Lam Sifu to give you an Iron Palm Demonstartion. Instead of just blasting everyone, ehy don't you emerse yourself in the art and get a first hand view point... Then after you get your feet wet a bit, then you can blast away at us.

It doesn't have to be you. You have a chain of schools, right? You'd think out of all of those schools a guy who makes all the claims you do should be able to produce at least one student who could do what you are claiming to be able to do against resisting opponents.

Simply take a few of your students over to an MMA gym for some sparring. The fact that you don't already do things like that is simply more evidence that you are selling snake oil.

[YouKnowWho]

You keep saying make a clip make a clip ..... blah blah blah blah. I am almost 50 years old,...

You should not complaint. I'll receive my medicare card this year. He also wants me to make a clip.


You don't have to use it on the ground. You can use it standing.

When will you be entering that tourney and posting the clips?

[faxiapreta]

And you just linked a general discussion to "my background" so quickly.

This is what I said.



This is the conclusion according to your logic.



Can you see that why you are not "loved" in this forum? You jump from general discussion to personal attack so quickly that you don't even realize yourself.

You are claiming experience in joint locks, are you not?

I have made no claims, other than to be able to think critically.

[faxiapreta]

You should not complaint. I'll receive my medicare card this year. He also wants me to make a clip.

OK, fine. Have your students do it.

[YouKnowWho]

You are claiming experience in joint locks, are you not?

Please show me when and where did I make that statement.

I have always said that stand up joint lock are easy to learn but hard to apply. Please don't use my own argument to argue against me.

You may be a "communist", but I'm a left wing liberal. I'm not a right wing conservative, so please don't treat me like one.

[faxiapreta]

Please show me when and where did I make that statement.

I have always said that stand up joint lock are easy to learn but hard to apply. Please don't use my own argument to argue against me.

So you are now saying you don't have much experience with joint locks?

If that is what you are saying, then maybe I am misinformed as to what you are claiming. If this is the case, I apologize for thinking you had experience in this realm.

However, if you don't have experience with this, that would explain why you are posting clips of joint locks that don't work as examples and maybe you should be talking about the effectiveness when you can provide no evidence for it.

[YouKnowWho]

I don't have to prove it to you what I can do and what I can't do.

[faxiapreta]

I don't have to prove it to you what I can do and what I can't do.

Of course you don't. However, your argument looks pretty stupid when you are claiming something for which you can provide no evidence.

[mooyingmantis]

Brothers,
Why are you guys still trying to reason with this POS? Reason is impossible with those whose mind's are closed and just want someone with which to argue. As stated before, ignore is a wonderful checkmark away. :D If we ignore him, he will soon go away, because he will not be getting the attention he apparently so desperately needs.

BTW, Rodney Morgan also showed the means of throwing and catching a steel-shot filled bag for conditioning and emphasized the need to hit steel-shot hanging bags to train iron palm strikes at various angles.

Near the close of the seminar we worked on two man drills that emphasized iron palm striking techniques delivered to various anatomical structures. I personally worked with two adult Taekwondo black belts much larger than myself that were quite shocked at the effectiveness of light iron palm slaps to the head, back and kidneys. When I tapped them lightly to the area of the skull slightly above and behind the ear, they immediately staggered and said that they were "seeing stars". Of course, afterwards I allowed them to practice the same strikes on me.

As far as being "snake oil salesmen", I believe my initial post mentioned that they gave us jow for the training. No purchase was required. BTW, these guys charged $40/person for a seminar that lasted most of the day. The small amount of money they charged could not have possibly covered:
1. The gas Rod and Shane used driving five hours from Kentucky to Ohio,
2. The gas Bill used driving his family from Georgia to Ohio,
3. The jow they gave away at the seminar (several different types),
4. The herbs they gave away at the seminar for a tonic,
5. Food for two days away from home,
6. All the patio blocks that were broken over a two day period.
7. The percentage that the host school took for the use of their facility.
Snake oil salesmen have much better marketing strategies! :D

[faxiapreta]

Brothers,
Why are you guys still trying to reason with this POS?

Maybe you missed the memo about personal insults. I guess you'll be getting it soon enough.

[mooyingmantis]

"This message is hidden because faxiapreta is on your ignore list"

See how easy that is guys? :D

[faxiapreta]

Brothers,
Why are you guys still trying to reason with this POS? Reason is impossible with those whose mind's are closed and just want someone with which to argue.


Actually, as I stated in my post to Mr. Dugas above, people like me easily change our minds. Simply provide the evidence. As I mentioned to Mr. Dugas, the simplest, quickest and most effective method for changing people's minds is to spar some MMA competitors at a local MMA facility showing yourself using your "internal, IP" methods.

Of course, no one seems to be able to do that. Apparently, they are all too old nor can they produce any students to do this.

I guess when you can't provide evidence, you have to resort to name-calling.

BTW, you don't have to be making much (or any) money to be selling snake oil.

[bawang]

you just admitted people who never did iron palm before could break those slabs at the end of a one day seminar

my opinion is you are fake, you can ignore me too

[Razaunida]

Actually, as I stated in my post to Mr. Dugas above, people like me easily change our minds. Simply provide the evidence. As I mentioned to Mr. Dugas, the simplest, quickest and most effective method for changing people's minds is to spar some MMA competitors at a local MMA facility showing yourself using your "internal, IP" methods.

Of course, no one seems to be able to do that. Apparently, they are all too old nor can they produce any students to do this.

I guess when you can't provide evidence, you have to resort to name-calling.

BTW, you don't have to be making much (or any) money to be selling snake oil.

I will hold you down and make you bleed like Kite Running Afghan boy.

[bawang]

guys like this completely ruin the reputation of kung fu

[mooyingmantis]

you just admitted people who never did iron palm before could break those slabs at the end of a one day seminar

So, if they could not do it before they came to the seminar, but they could do it after they attended the seminar, doesn't that mean they were successfully taught something? Which in my mind was probably their reason for attending. :eek:

Breaking one slab without injury shows that:
1. They learned proper technique,
2. They conquered their fear of hurting their hand.

No guarantee was given that participants would instantly be transformed into iron palm masters.

[wenshu]

Did a certain blue belt finally test up to black?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdIMTzgo-rY

[bawang]

So, if they could not do it before they came to the seminar, but they could do it after they attended the seminar, doesn't that mean they were successfully taught something?

if after a one day seminar you can break concrete slabs, what are the intense dedicated bag training, meditation and medicinal herbs for???

either iron palm is fake, or the iron lotus guys are fake, doing easy trick breaks.

[IronWeasel]

if after a one day seminar you can break concrete slabs, what are the intense dedicated bag training, meditation and medicinal herbs for???

either iron palm is fake or the iron lotus guys are fake, doing easy trick breaks.



Richard: 1

Bawang: 0

[mooyingmantis]

if after a one day seminar you can break concrete slabs, what are the intense dedicated bag training, meditation and medicinal herbs for???

Karate people break slabs all the time without meditation or medicinal herbs. But if you compare their hands to Rod's, there is a very noticeable difference. Rod, Shane and Bill's hands didn't look like they had busted their knuckles or other bones repeatedly. They had a natural, healthy look. Karate people that I have seen who practice the art of breaking have disfigured hands.



either iron palm is fake, or the iron lotus guys are fake doing easy trick breaks.

Or you are just typing to see yourself try to make letters into words. :D

Nah, I will not put you on ignore. You are at least good entertainment value. But if you are going to get on a "bandwagon", at least choose one that can carry a tune. :)

[bawang]

- iron lotus claims their hands is too deadly to spar, the proof is they can break concrete slabs
- the seminar showed even skinny karate guys can break their concrete slabs AFTER ONE DAY

-iron lotus claims their hands are more powerful
-you just said the only difference is the medicine removes scars, which they got from JIM LACEY

[bawang]

iron palm is a minor conditioning excercise, but the fancy name caught white peoples eye and turned it into a marketing ploy.


why are there no "mountain raising" seminars (squat)
why are there no "iron seal" seminars (deadlift)
etc

[Razaunida]

why is everyone having such hardons for external training wines?

The internal ones are the most fun. You get fecked up on blood thinners and fight. That is where all the fun is. Asprin and rum..essentaily.

Ever taken an advil before sparring? Congrats, you took a primitive training wine.

Once you are bedrunken you can hit harder and feel no pain.

[bawang]

iron seal skill:

-beginners first train standing post, visualizing qi flowing to legs.
- at the end of 2 to 3 years the completed "gong" is able to lift from 200 to 400 pounds around 10 times
-after training use tui na massage and apply medicine


why dont white people train this

[TenTigers]

nah, no snake-oil sales gimmick being done here.
Basically, what they did was show novices how to strike properly, develop power and physically and psychologically break through their barriers.
It was an introduction to iron palm. nothing more.
The techniques that they learned, can then be developed over time into greater skill.
It's like a drug dealer-you give'em a taste, then they develop a habit.

[Razaunida]

This is good Earth Skill


also use heaven skill...put a 300lb man over your shoulders and do stances. You will learn everything you need to know about your posture in an instance.

300lb heavy bags are also used for shuai chiao training. I can only do 150 over the shoulder consistently because my skill is still low.

Put a log accross your arms in a horse stance and roll it up and down the arms.

[bawang]

raise the heavens skill: take two stone locks and shoulder press until exhaustion.
then lie down, chest press until exhaustion.

why dont white people have seminars for that?

(this skill uses the same qigong and medicine as iron palm)

[Razaunida]

To be fair Bawang...if you had an Xbox, KFC and a bunch of Chinese girlfriends you probably wouldn't train very much either.

Kung fu....or...waterskiing at our family's house on the lake...hmmmm...

The wealthier the people the less likely they are to train.


Look at the new rich in China. Those ***** kids can't do a pullup at age 17. They are the same kind of passies who surrendered Nan Jing to the Japanese rape hordes.

Easy chocha because you are rich means you don't have to be smart or strong.

[bawang]

this makes me very angry i am going to do some squats at the gym to calm me down

[Razaunida]

do a hand stand on your fists

[TenTigers]

raise the heavens skill: take two stone locks and shoulder press until exhaustion.
then lie down, chest press until exhaustion.

why dont white people have seminars for that?

(this skill uses the same qigong and medicine as iron palm)
they do the same thing, only they sell you kettlebells....

[bawang]

iron lotus training

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSWVY5gU_GU

[Razaunida]

Just did hand stand on fists...heavy fist training.

It is the opposite of horse stance connecting heart yang qi into the Earth....good to do this time of year by the zi wu timing.

[Razaunida]

I wonder why they hugged a tree.

The modern part of me thinks..that is because they didn't have our sophisticated weight training...blah blah


The traditional side of me says...why is new better? Do you think they couldn't make small weights..they made the best of everything back in the day. Shut the feck up and do it.

[TenTigers]

um, Bawang...? Where do you find these things?
Nevermind that...why do you know where these things are?
I need to wash my eyes with clorox now...

[TenTigers]

you're a very bad man...

[Razaunida]

I only know where to find softcore Japanese porn. It is more artistic and doesn't give me viruses.

White girl porn is usually tacky except for the Russian stuff which is either artistic or horrific.

White girl porn tends to give me viruses...I don't know why. Too bad, I love blonde girls.

I hope the economy of Sweden collapses and I will go there with money to have sex with many women.

[Razaunida]

bawang knows where those things are because of the following.

1. He is in Toronto with immigrant roots. This means have has over 4 house/roomates.

2. Some of them are not students, but are rather...feck ups. A few are probably gheh and send him weird links.

I used to live in Canada and it was like that. Lots of weird people sharing a place, just me and Ping were sane. Then again he slept on a bare matress and had a cat named Pong. He always showed me things like this.

Sometimes I wonder if Bawang is Ping..or maybe just in the same situation.

[vociferor]

http://www.gamecodecity.com/swf/game_33.swf

[Razaunida]

Its on like Tron...but this game is racist.

They hold the paddles upside down.

[SimonM]

if after a one day seminar you can break concrete slabs, what are the intense dedicated bag training, meditation and medicinal herbs for???

either iron palm is fake, or the iron lotus guys are fake, doing easy trick breaks.


Bawang's logic is actually pretty sound here.

[faxiapreta]

Bawang's logic is actually pretty sound here.

Yep, he's actually using some critical thinking skills.

[sanjuro_ronin]

A little FYI from someone who has done BOTH methods of hand conditioning.
I was breaking board and bricks and slaps BEFORE I ever started IP.
My hands were also a bit ****ed up, as most kyokushin guys hands tend to be.
IP training made my hands look better, that's for sure.
I also noticed that I could break with less effort than before, due to the relaxed "heavy hand" that you learn doing IP.
Do you need IP to break?
No.
Does it help?
Yes.
Does being able to break thing make any difference in fighting ability?
No.
Is it fun and cool?
Yes, it can be a great confidence builder for some.

[Shima Wara]

Bawang's logic is so obviously convoluted its not even funny. Let's apply to other conditioning methods and see if it holds up.

Let's say we put on a weightlifting seminar. My claim was that I could teach anyone over 125 lbs to deadlift 185lbs with good technique. After that, they would have to train themselves and continue lifting and conditioning to make increases. Then let's say, that I deadlift 405 at the seminar during the demonstration. People come up, they see me lift it, they try to lift it and can't. However, by the end of the seminar everyone can deadlift 185 as promised after correcting their technique. According to Bawang, because they can lift the 185 that I warm up with, that I am either a fake, or doing trick lifts that are easy.

This logic is so off the wall that I can't believe anyone would buy it.

Breaking one slab HAS NEVER BEEN A GOOD TEST OF IRON PALM. We actually state publicly that a stack of 3 is the first test to show real progress in hand conditioning. One slab is ok, but it acts as a solid 2" unit. Breaking a solid 2" unit of concrete, does not mean you can easily break a solid 8" unit of concrete. You cannot equate one block to four blocks(unspaced).

If you are so eager to prove us wrong, then host us at your school or come to one of our seminars and show us we are wrong by breaking what we break. We will even show you the technique we use to break and hold nothing back.

And frankly, if you say "Having a conditioned hand does not matter in combat" then you are a simpleton who needs more training.

[SimonM]

Breaking one slab was posited as a good demonstration that IP abilities were taught by the OP.

Look guys, I fall into the extremely small camp of TCMA guys who see the most important tradition of TCMA being that of testing and evolving techniques. If you actually analyze the history of TCMA it's a pretty important one right up until about 1950.

As such I don't automatically dismiss TCMA nor do I give a free pass to TCMA silliness. It is simply a part of the art we should do away with - it has been outlived.

IP tricks fall into that category. I know I can hit hard but I don't do breaks - never bothered learning how - I was too busy learning how to knock somebody over with a well placed punch.

[bawang]

Breaking one slab HAS NEVER BEEN A GOOD TEST OF IRON PALM.


-if you dont trick break, breaking even one slab is a great test of iron palm.
- you guys trick break.




If you are so eager to prove us wrong, then host us at your school or come to one of our seminars

FUK NO
-you guys train shotokan karate, and got your medicinal formula from books, seminars and internet, such as fraud james patrick lacey.

-you are selling books and hosting seminars, with information you got from books and seminars






And frankly, if you say "Having a conditioned hand does not matter in combat" then you are a simpleton who needs more training.
i never said iron palm isnt real. i said you are a fraud

[Shima Wara]

bawang, you're an idiot.

You say I'm a fraud and do trick breaks, but you say it in ignorance because you have never seen me break nor met me in real life.

I would do myself absolutely no favors by faking anything. If I was, then that would be apparent when I taught others who did not know me. They would easily see the fraud and report that back to others.

The claim that breaking one slab is a great test of iron palm is straight from the mouth of foolishness. Its obvious that you know nothing on this issue. We can break single blocks from just inches away. The bigger the stack, the harder the break. This is obvious.

Again, I invite you to prove that we "trick break". Actual proof, not hearsay, conjecture, and erroneous conclusions based on your internet "research".
If you actually want to prove it, then gird up your tiny balls and meet us in person. Then you can honestly judge for yourself. Unlike you we do not hide.

FYI, I've never done shotokan, neither have any of us.

We got the information directly from the source. We are Ng family boxing students and we got our formulas from renowned herbalists. You obviously know nothing about this, or you would know that the Iron Palm community has NEVER produced a book of serious formulas and has never been eager to share formulas except with legitimate practitioners. We have never attended an Iron Palm seminar, ever. We were taught by a teacher, and learned from herbalists and masters.

Simon,

If you have ever actually punched someone in the face, you would know the damage it does to the knuckles and fingers of the hand. Hand conditioning is still relevant. Ask any bareknuckle boxer. They still condition and apply liniment, and have for a long time. You are completely incorrect. Additionally, why do you assume we only practice iron palm. My base is in SAMBO. I just happen to condition my hand as well. I can fight, but i prefer to do so with a hand that is less likely to get damaged in the process.

That being said. I'm done here. Arguing with fools and cowards is counterproductive. If you really want to prove us wrong that badly, then come see us or host us. Otherwise, get over it, we will still be here regardless.

[faxiapreta]

We got the information directly from the source. We are Ng family boxing students and we got our formulas from renowned herbalists. .

The difference between the snake oil you are pedaling and a weight lifting seminar is that the weight seminar doesn't try to convince people that they need a bunch of huey herbs and liniments to continue to improve after the seminar is over.

[faxiapreta]

You are completely incorrect. Additionally, why do you assume we only practice iron palm. My base is in SAMBO.

If your SAMBO experience is the same as your "years of wrestling" experience, that would be a big fat zero.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You know...you guys tend to really push it....
Guys, it's not the hard to have a civil discussion.
You voice your concerns and POV and someone else chimes in with their view and opinion.
No one is forced to believe ANYONE else, ok?
Don't start calling people frauds or that they are "peddelling snake oil", even more if you, personally, have not tried it.
Seriously now.
This is bordering on harassment and cross thread stalking and that is not acceptable.

[Shima Wara]

If your SAMBO experience is the same as your "years of wrestling" experience, that would be a big fat zero.


HAHA! I love this idiot. When I said dip their head(a common term used to describe sinking your height in wrestling, anyone who has wrestled seriously would know that "dipping" means "dropping height") I was talking about being at waist level or lower for a takedown. It does not matter if their head is up or down. I am well aware that one should keep their head up for attempting a takedown. Again, another comment taken way out of context by the inexperienced and blown into 35 differing assumptions unrelated to the original comment itself.

Hilarious.

[faxiapreta]

HAHA! I love this idiot. When I said dip their head(a common term used to describe sinking your height in wrestling, anyone who has wrestled seriously would know that "dipping" means "dropping height") I was talking about being at waist level or lower for a takedown. It does not matter if their head is up or down. I am well aware that one should keep their head up for attempting a takedown. Again, another comment taken way out of context by the inexperienced and blown into 35 differing assumptions unrelated to the original comment itself.

A person with wrestling would not talk about dipping the head. Not only is it not common, it's pretty much unheard of.

And, yes, it does matter if the head is up or down.

BTW, there is a very commonly used reference to what wrestlers do when they "drop height". This term is taught in pretty much any basic level high school wrestling program from the very beginning. It is one of the basics to the majority of takedowns done in freestyle and folkstyle wrestling.

Pretty much any wrestler who was talking about what your are supposedly talking about would have used that common term already. Not using that reference, but instead calling it "dropping height" or "dipping the head" would be further evidence for someone's lack of wrestling experience.

The term is called "changing levels" and it used by pretty much any wrestler with 6 months or so of wrestling experience.

[David Jamieson]

A good point was raised about the condition of the hands.

A person who is not using teh method of Iron Palm generally has a pretty crappy looking hand and some messed up knuckles. He'll also suffer bad when he gets old.

An IP person on teh other hand (pun intended) has smooth hands, like an office worker. Only, he can break more than an average person, as much as any proficient breaker and he won't suffer the gnarled up stumps for hands crap that non iron palm breakers suffer from.

IP is to harden the hands for use with teh hand forms as learned in Kung Fu.
IP is not a style, is not a fighting method and contains nothing in the way of pugilistic instructions.

A person can practice iron palm without ever fighting, in fact, anyone can take up martial arts as a hobby and never fight. It's all good. Everyone is allowed to find themselves physically.

Pay no attention to whining ultra-orthodox blinder vision wads who want to make like the world is two sided black and white copies for ever and ever. lol

Those guys will take forever to get anywhere with anything. The aren't worth you time. :p

[David Jamieson]

A person with wrestling would not talk about dipping the head. Not only is it not common, it's pretty much unheard of.

And, yes, it does matter if the head is up or down.

BTW, there is a very commonly used reference to what wrestlers do when they "drop height". This term is taught in pretty much any basic level high school wrestling program from the very beginning. It is one of the basics to the majority of takedowns done in freestyle and folkstyle wrestling.

Pretty much any wrestler who was talking about what your are supposedly talking about would have used that common term already. Not using that reference, but instead calling it "dropping height" or "dipping the head" would be further evidence for someone's lack of wrestling experience.

The term is called "changing levels" and it used by pretty much any wrestler with 6 months or so of wrestling experience.

I think it's possible you are fixating on something and not looking at what is being said? Wrestlers for the most part use completely different energies than strikers.
Wrestlers don't really know what to do when they are repeatedly punched in the face whilst being sat upon.

an mma guy might, but that's because he knows more than wrestling.

all different energies and it takes time to leran any of them.

now, as a guy who doesn't know any kung fu, why do you insist on speaking to it? If you know something about wrestling, you should stick to commentaries on that and leave the Kung Fu to those who actually do it and realize that the world doesn't live inside your tv or your limited world view.

:)

[faxiapreta]

I think it's possible you are fixating on something and not looking at what is being said? Wrestlers for the most part use completely different energies than strikers.
Wrestlers don't really know what to do when they are repeatedly punched in the face whilst being sat upon.

an mma guy might, but that's because he knows more than wrestling.

all different energies and it takes time to leran any of them.

now, as a guy who doesn't know any kung fu, why do you insist on speaking to it? If you know something about wrestling, you should stick to commentaries on that and leave the Kung Fu to those who actually do it and realize that the world doesn't live inside your tv or your limited world view.

:)

Shima Wara said he had years of wrestling experience. I was pointing out why he probably doesn't. In which case, that would mean he is lying. In which case, that would ruin any credibility for his SAMBO or IP claims.

[faxiapreta]

A good point was raised about the condition of the hands.

A person who is not using teh method of Iron Palm generally has a pretty crappy looking hand and some messed up knuckles. He'll also suffer bad when he gets old.

An IP person on teh other hand (pun intended) has smooth hands, like an office worker. Only, he can break more than an average person, as much as any proficient breaker and he won't suffer the gnarled up stumps for hands crap that non iron palm breakers suffer from.

IP is to harden the hands for use with teh hand forms as learned in Kung Fu.
IP is not a style, is not a fighting method and contains nothing in the way of pugilistic instructions.

A person can practice iron palm without ever fighting, in fact, anyone can take up martial arts as a hobby and never fight. It's all good. Everyone is allowed to find themselves physically.

Pay no attention to whining ultra-orthodox blinder vision wads who want to make like the world is two sided black and white copies for ever and ever. lol

Those guys will take forever to get anywhere with anything. The aren't worth you time. :p

What percentage of IP training is hitting with the palm and what percentage is hitting with the fist?

[bawang]

those guys last year on this same forum admitted they trained "old school shuri te" and got formulas from jim lacey

[Shima Wara]

Shima Wara said he had years of wrestling experience. I was pointing out why he probably doesn't. In which case, that would mean he is lying. In which case, that would ruin any credibility for his SAMBO or IP claims.


Your ignorance is astounding.

Changing levels is a term used by folkstyle or freestyle collegiate wrestlers. In combat grappling, there is no use for this concept as presented in folk styles. If you do a level change step on concrete you will break your kneecap when sliding to the takedown. A combat grappler rarely "changes levels" anyhow, as this will get you destroyed in a fight on the street. All my grappling can be done standing in high stances without changing levels. If you choose to dip your head below chest level in combat, you had better be fast or you will get

1. knee to the chin

2. hit on the side, back, top of head and neck

3. planted on your head and choked to death

Russian wrestling is different in both terminology and concept from folk style wrestling. Once again proving you are an ignoramous on the subject.

Thanks, try again.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What percentage of IP training is hitting with the palm and what percentage is hitting with the fist?

Depends of the sysyem.
Mine for example:
Hit with palm, side, back of hand, fist and phoenix-eye fist.

[Shima Wara]

those guys last year on this same forum admitted they trained "old school shuri te" and got formulas from jim lacey

Old school shuri te stems from the Hopei white crane school and is okinawan in heritage. shotokan is a piece of crap taught to school children as a watered down version of okinawan kenpo.

I have never claimed to get any formulas for Lacy.

[faxiapreta]

Depends of the sysyem.
Mine for example:
Hit with palm, side, back of hand, fist and phoenix-eye fist.

What percentage?

[bawang]

- shotokan is traditional shuri te
- there is no place in china called hopei
- you guys mentioned lacey on this forum numerous times

[Shima Wara]

- shotokan is traditional shuri te
- there is no place in china called hopei

Shotokan is a school children's version of shuri te, purposely watered down when presented to japan school systems.

Chang County, Hopei province, taught along with Hsing I and Ba gua from T'ung Gee Hsing's lineage.

[faxiapreta]

Your ignorance is astounding.

Changing levels is a term used by folkstyle or freestyle collegiate wrestlers. In combat grappling, there is no use for this concept as presented in folk styles. If you do a level change step on concrete you will break your kneecap when sliding to the takedown. A combat grappler rarely "changes levels" anyhow, as this will get you destroyed in a fight on the street. All my grappling can be done standing in high stances without changing levels. If you choose to dip your head below chest level in combat, you had better be fast or you will get

1. knee to the chin

2. hit on the side, back, top of head and neck

3. planted on your head and choked to death

Russian wrestling is different in both terminology and concept from folk style wrestling. Once again proving you are an ignoramous on the subject.

Thanks, try again.

Oh, now you are talking about Russian wrestling? Are you saying you don't have the experience in "American" freestyle or folkstyle wrestling, but, instead in "Russian wrestling"? Is this what you are claiming?

[Shima Wara]

- shotokan is traditional shuri te
- there is no place in china called hopei
- you guys mentioned lacey on this forum numerous times

I personally have never mentioned lacy as I do not like him very much.

[Shima Wara]

Oh, now you are talking about Russian wrestling? Are you saying you don't have the experience in "American" freestyle or folkstyle wrestling, but, instead in "Russian wrestling"? Is this what you are claiming?

Faxia,

Yes you are correct. I do not have much experience in American folk or freestyle because I've never competed in it. Though I have worked with several folk and freestyle wrestlers before.

I apologize for the mistake. I'm man enough to admit it was my fault in my wording. I should have probably stated that it was SAMBO and steppe wrestling. I've competed in SAMBO tournaments(more like mma) and grappling tournaments(all grappling no striking) since I was a young teenager. And I have been practicing SAMBO since I was a child.

[bawang]

concrete and ceramics have high compression strength. that means when you put it on the floor its strong.

it has low tensile strenghth. that means its extremely weak when its suspended in air and if force is applied perpendicular to it.

it doesnt matter if you guys train hard and have the real iron palm. if you market and teach trick breaks it makes you dishonest. if you exagerate a common chinese hand conditioning excercise to mythical proportions you are dishonest.

[faxiapreta]

Faxia,

Yes you are correct. I do not have much experience in American folk or freestyle because I've never competed in it. Though I have worked with several folk and freestyle wrestlers before.

I apologize for the mistake. I'm man enough to admit it was my fault in my wording. I should have probably stated that it was SAMBO and steppe wrestling. I've competed in SAMBO tournaments(more like mma) and grappling tournaments(all grappling no striking) since I was a young teenager. And I have been practicing SAMBO since I was a child.

OK, now things make sense. SAMBO, being a jacket based style, doesn't have much in terms of being able to enter into range without a jacket and be able to complete a low takedown efficiently.

Lots of SAMBO guys do the "rush in with your head down" takedown technique, which gets them in trouble.

I can see why you thought a grappling takedown involved dropping the head.

In western wrestling, it doesn't involve dropping the head, and can be done without touching the knee down.

[Shima Wara]

concrete and ceramics have high compression strength. that means when you put it on the floor its strong.

it has low tensile strenghth. that means its extremely weak when its suspended in air and if force is applied perpendicular to it.

it doesnt matter if you guys train hard and have the real iron palm. if you market and teach trick breaks it makes you dishonest


Agreed. But there has to be a starting point Bawang. We do not teach that breaking on a stand is real iron palm. We simply use it as a guaging exercise. We can break bricks without supports and have videos of us doing so. And I will honestly say that breaking one flat on the ground is about equal to breaking two on a stand. We are currently working on two slabs unsupported, but we gauge our striking power with breaks on the stand first. When we can break four consistently, then we will work on the two brick flat break. We also teach that breaking suspended objects is a test for IP as well. We try to teach the whole spectrum but we do not try to fool anyone. We teach the physics of the breaks as well.

[David Jamieson]

Depends of the sysyem.
Mine for example:
Hit with palm, side, back of hand, fist and phoenix-eye fist.

I have two:

1. palm/back/heel/ridge/crane beak

and

2. palm/back/heel/ridge/ tiger claw

I do believe the last strike is the style strike and the first four are the forging of the hand overall.

[bawang]

you need to honest and admit the suspended trick break of one slab for the one day seminar is just to engage the people more and increase their confidence, and increase your sell power.


its understandable for american karate and kung fu guys to grossly exagerate the prowess of iron palm, but dont act shocked when you get a backlash for it.

[Shima Wara]

OK, now things make sense. SAMBO, being a jacket based style, doesn't have much in terms of being able to enter into range without a jacket and be able to complete a low takedown efficiently.

Lots of SAMBO guys do the "rush in with your head down" takedown technique, which gets them in trouble.

I can see why you thought a grappling takedown involved dropping the head.

In western wrestling, it doesn't involve dropping the head, and can be done without touching the knee down.

Faxia,

I have actually seen Cary Kolat demonstrate the no touch level change slide before now that you mention it. I have, however, seen so many coaches teach their wrestlers to touch the knee down when sliding from a level change step. I shudder to think what they would do in a real fight on concrete.

Yes, admittedly there is not much taught about your head and thoracic spine position in russian grappling, but that is also why i feel its necessary to cross train in other wrestling styles. I just wish I had more time to seek coaches, because I always get something useful from the folk and freestyle wrestlers.

I would say that upper body grappling is my weakness because of the emphasis on jacket and belt wrestling, but I have tried to adapt by using leg locks and aggressive manuevers, such as leg scissors, or rolling attacks(knee bar, ankle lace, etc.) Its deifnitely a learning curve when going into a strong no-gi grappler's arena.

Well said sir.

[Shima Wara]

you need to honest and admit the suspended trick break of one slab for the one day seminar is just to engage the people more and increase their confidence, and increase your sell power.

We always tell everyone that anyone can break one slab between supports because the physics involved are attainable with simple technique. We never hide what is and is not real. When we say this, people often do not believe us, so we have them come up to the stand and break to see that we are right. We then explain to them how to increase the suspended stack to a more respectable level, break different materials such as coconuts, and explain how to achieve proper conditioning for breaking any way they wish. That's the problem though, very rarely are people interested in real iron palm because it is not the mystical secret they thought it was. We honeslty get very little interest because we do not sell the mystery.

[faxiapreta]

I have two:

1. palm/back/heel/ridge/crane beak

and

2. palm/back/heel/ridge/ tiger claw

I do believe the last strike is the style strike and the first four are the forging of the hand overall.

Let's see, you guys are splitting your hitting between the palm and various other surfaces of the hand and fingers.

Meanwhile the other guys are spending most of the time hitting with their fists.

Can you not see how this, and not the jow, might be the difference between how their hands look compared yours?

[bawang]

you outright denied training any karate, then when i confronted you you admitted you do in fact train karate.

you guys first touted the seminar as proof of your iron powers, then changed tune and admiited its just physics.

this is america you can do whatever you want. theres this one guy out there selling "white tigress" sexual female qigong. just dont act shocked when people call you out on your bs.

[Shima Wara]

you outright denied training any karate, then when i confronted you you admitted you do in fact train karate.

you guys first touted the seminar as proof of your iron powers, then changed tune and admiited its just physics.

this is america you can do whatever you want. theres this one guy out there selling "white tigress" sexual female qigong. just dont act shocked when people call you out on your bs.

I never said i didn't train any karate. its on my bio on our site that i trained okinawan kenpo. I said I do not train shotokan. Also, I am the only one of the three that has ever studied karate of any kind. so if the other two stated that, then they are correct.


I never said we had iron powers. But that doesn't mean we have no skill at all. All of life is physics. There is no mystical power to iron palm, just conditioning, program, and dedication to daily practice. However, my point was that the conditioning of the hand serves to increase its ability to absorb damage from striking.

To say I've said otherwise is completely untrue.

[bawang]

"increased ability to absorb damage when striking" is far cry from "devastating power" "too dangerous to spar"


if you are not a sociopath, think hard about what you are doing and perpetuating

[Shima Wara]

"increased ability to absorb damage when striking" is far cry from "devastating power" "too dangerous to spar"


if you are not a sociopath, think hard about what you are doing and perpetuating

Once again, I never used the phrases "devastating power" although any serious strike is devastating. I have not ever once stated that I was "too dangerous to spar" because of IP. Done arguing with you about things I did not say.

[teetsao]

LOL,you read the 72 arts nonsense book and think it is real, and you say white people are dumb.
raisuning mountian and iron seal,LOL.
I AM A POWERLIFTER JACKA$$ you couildnt cme close to my 18 yr. old sons p.l. totals.

[teetsao]

concrete and ceramics have high compression strength. that means when you put it on the floor its strong.

it has low tensile strenghth. that means its extremely weak when its suspended in air and if force is applied perpendicular to it.

it doesnt matter if you guys train hard and have the real iron palm. if you market and teach trick breaks it makes you dishonest. if you exagerate a common chinese hand conditioning excercise to mythical proportions you are dishonest.


now all of a sudden you use perfect spelling and perfect english?? this just answers my questions.
bill,let it be.

[bawang]

you think deadlifting a cubic weight is make believe, but magic death palm is real.



you dont recognize basic begginer weight lifting exercises in northern shaolin, calls them NONSENSE, but claims to have the secret north shaolin iron palm recipe.

lols


keep training your karate

[David Jamieson]

Let's see, you guys are splitting your hitting between the palm and various other surfaces of the hand and fingers.

Meanwhile the other guys are spending most of the time hitting with their fists.

Can you not see how this, and not the jow, might be the difference between how their hands look compared yours?

I do rounds on the heavy bag for my fists mostly. Don't really use the flat bag for them. Some guys use a hanging bag with shot or stone in it. I don't practice that method. Bag, mitts, thai pads, combo drills, plyo, stretch, weights, body work, cycle etc. some months not so much, others with more ardent vigor. I'm old, I can take breaks if I want. :)

[bawang]

i named some other traditional exercises that dont sound as exotic or mystical as iron palm, and those karate guys instantly dissmiss them as nonsense



and those "iron palm experts" just openly admitted they train karate on this same page

[faxiapreta]

Once again, I never used the phrases "devastating power" although any serious strike is devastating. I have not ever once stated that I was "too dangerous to spar" because of IP. Done arguing with you about things I did not say.

You are associate with teetsao, are you not?

He claimed that you could not strike with full power because you would rupture organs and/or split skulls open.

[teetsao]

i am not ashamed of my martial experience.
i currently study bagua from master rick pickens who is a student of dr. "john" winglok ng. wing chun from sifu chris rose who is a student f master emin boztepe and i learn sambo/systemma from my bro. bill.
i have a background in kali,muay thai and jkd concepts from jason hawkins a student of dan inosanto and jeff westfall. i study and love traditioanl arts and skills to keep them alive. i am not ashamed of my martial training. oh i also like to train in traditioanal okinawan karate. i like seeing the similarities to chinese kung fu. i am also a powerlifter. i weigh 180 and have a total of 1030. not that great but i am not competative and i am a martial asrtist first. i do other things but i dont tell everything i know or do. i train do you?? be completly honest with yourself. no one will know but you. but your posts tell your story for you. YOU DONT TRAIN IN ANYTHING. you know it and so does eveyone else.
well gotta go,guess what i will be doing for the next 2hr b4 i go to bed????

[bawang]

,guess what i will be doing for the next 2hr b4 i go to bed????

watching the porno

[sanjuro_ronin]

What percentage?

The IP training consists of 100 strikes with each surface area.
Of course, add to that the many strikes done on the HB, mitts and whatnot.
Personally, closed fist strikes consist of the majority of my striking.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Let's see, you guys are splitting your hitting between the palm and various other surfaces of the hand and fingers.

Meanwhile the other guys are spending most of the time hitting with their fists.

Can you not see how this, and not the jow, might be the difference between how their hands look compared yours?

AH dude, my fist were typical of karatekas before I started IP, they are so much better now, it's not even funny.
The jow makes a difference, I can say from experience that it does.
Don't ask me how, I don't know.

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL,you read the 72 arts nonsense book and think it is real, and you say white people are dumb.
raisuning mountian and iron seal,LOL.
I AM A POWERLIFTER JACKA$$ you couildnt cme close to my 18 yr. old sons p.l. totals.

Watch the insults.

[teetsao]

yeah sorry, i meant to say braying jacka$$