what school should I attend?

[burningflames]

Here are videos from a school that reportedly teaches shaolin five animals as well as mantis, nanquon, chanquon and yoga. People on bullshido said the forms might be sloppy and undeveloped. Im 27 and want to learn kung fu. Im especially interested in the animal styles because they are so ancient to everything else like wing chun and karate. Plus im still reasonably young so I could train and condition to a high level still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWnu-mCdd7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6dmzDhKgk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtEs65KoJcA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-fm5X7_a9U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXcOnwC07QI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yLegzYON2g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85lDFGFx9BE&feature=related

[burningflames]

There is another school, run by a chinese wushu certified champion winning instructor. IT teaches (and I am interested in) xingyi, baguazha, southern crane, southern tiger, tai chi

[TenTigers]

you'd be much better off in the wushu school.
That first school is nothing more than modern dance.

[hskwarrior]

OK.....here we go.........

lets see how predictable things will get

[TenTigers]

you'd be much better off at the second school-the wushu school, rather than that first one, which is nothing more than modern dance.

[burningflames]

I should post the descriptions of tiger, leaopard and dragon from the first school.


Tiger

The Tiger is an ancient and majestic creature of incredible power and strength. It uses its weight, momentum, and bones, combined with razor sharp claws and jaws to crush and mangle its opponent. A tiger is a very aggressive head on type of creature, yet it does not fight with clumsy brute strength, it uses controlled strength, with every ounce of primal skill at its disposal.

A tiger will never retreat, even in the face of death, it will viciously attack, even against a thousand adversaries. From the tiger we learn bravery, bone strength, tenacity and indomitable spirit. So how does one go about turning themselves into a tiger? The first thing is dedication and commitment first and foremost. Then a lot of strength training. Tons of various types of calisthenics, fingertip pushups, leaps, squats, stance holds, etc. Things that force extreme discipline. Through long rigorous hours of this type of regiment a pupil eventually, after several months, becomes strong enough to begin the next level.

The next phase consists of various types of basic hand and leg attacks. The student also begins the trade mark of tiger at this level, the claw. The claw is developed through exercises such as finger tip push ups, ripping at trees, carrying steel shot puts with the fingers and driving the claw into buckets filled with rocks and steel pellets. This is called iron palm training. The disciple of tiger slaps water and rock and hits lead filled bags and trees with his bones until the arms and legs are hard as iron pipes. At this level a student has not learned to fight against another opponent yet, even so, his body is hard as nails. He has developed basic tiger armor. Armor development and striking tough objects is a phase that lasts at least a couple of years. This stage prepares the disciple for martial combat.

The next level of tiger training involves specific tiger patterns or in other words, forms. Coupled with the martial applications of a multitude of fighting sets and sequences the practice of forms, over time, gives the disciple a vast knowledge of bone anatomy, joint manipulation or better said, how to completely rip an opponent apart! After many years, if trained properly, a disciple of tiger has enough strength in his claws to separate muscle from bone and tear it from the body.

The next level consists of exercising breath control and meditation as well as weapons training. A master of Tiger is just like a tiger in every way. He will even look like a tiger and he will have a straight to the point, no nonsense attitude in life.


Dragon

The Dragon style is without a doubt among the oldest of Kung fu systems. The concept of dragons has been deeply embedded within the human psyche for thousands of years. Every culture in the ancient world has tales of dragons interacting with, influencing and even breeding with human kind. The dragons of the west were often portrayed as evil flesh devouring, blood thirsty enemies of human kind, whereas the eastern dragons were vegetarian and bringers of peace and prosperity, also known as guardians of humankind.

The only limits of any style always depend on the individual. With the dragon style in particular one thing that must be considered first and foremost is the fact that dragons are just as diverse as humans in their movements, combat patterns and personalities, as well as any other characteristics. From a chinese martial point of view, the southern dragon emphasizes more strength and power and has a very low, slithering, creeping style that is designed to get up underneath an opponents foundation. Pretty scary! The southern dragon will also use a series of fast rushing uppercut attacks as well as joint locks and fatal pressure point attacks.

The northern dragon on the other hand will generally use longer ranged attacks with blinding speed and, being very adroit at ariel combat, can employ a barrage of flying and spinning attacks. Both the southern and the northern styles run together at the higher levels.

After a long periods of holding stances and conditioning ones bones a basic student of dragon has developed a stronger body and is now ready to learn basic twisting attacks. Coiling and uncoiling from cross legged stances are essential to the dragons style. Learning to twist the body properly can give one not only an incredible power to strike with hands and legs but also the ability to create illusion and unpredictability in the opponents mind! Once the student has developed the basic twisting attacks to some degree of proficiency he/she is now ready to learn more advanced attacks such as the dreaded dragon tail kicks as well as a multitude of other attacks. Dragon legs is an acquired level of training designed to ultimately give the student mastery over the art of kicking. In addition, the practitioner learns elusive patterns of arm and leg movements based on continuous motion, as well as the legendary razor claw.

Razor sharp claws are developed over many years by doing fingertip pushups and fingertip handstand holds. Other methods of developing the claw include lifting, holding and carrying large mouthed jugs filled with water, twisting bamboo and ripping and slashing at trees. Few ever develop the claw to this pentacle and that is very fortunate because in the hands of one impure of heart it can be a disaster! A master of the dragons claw can slash an assailant open causing critical blood loss that would be measured in pints rather than drops. It must be stated that with this level of skill the dragon has the most responsibility of all styles and must avoid combat at all costs! Only in dire circumstances will a true master of dragon open the fatal gates of chaos.

Powerfully writhing back and fourth with continuous movement, the dragon stylist leaves no fixed target. Twisting, winding and elusively luring its opponent into an aggressive pursuit, the dragon causes the aggressor to over extend himself. It is In this instant when the crafty dragon springs its fatal trap. The next question might be ‘What trap would the dragon spring?’ What ever it wants! The dragon has infinite weapons at its disposal; grasping, Locking, gouging, slashing, crushing, kicking, death roll, constriction, joint manipulation, etc the list goes on and on. A strong rule of survival is to never chase a dragon. It’s almost always a trap. On the other hand, should the dragon choose to stand and fight, it still won’t fight head on. It will use sequences of oblique and angular attacks, combined with blinding speed and deadly accuracy. Spinning, twisting, writhing, winding, coiling and springing while kicking and slashing, the master of dragon attacks with a strength and flexibility not of this world.

The deadliest thing about a dragon is its cunning and extremely deceptive mind. As a result it can turn the tides in the worst of situations. The dragon in combat, is every bit smoke and mirrors, as it is skilled in the highest levels of battle. The dragon possesses the magical ability to reflexively create within the midst of battle. In addition, the dragon is very fond of taking the fight off the battle field and deep into the unfamiliar sea of asymmetrical warfare or in other words, tactics of unequal proportion or even simpler the guerilla warfare of hand to hand combat.

[burningflames]

I should post the descriptions of tiger, leaopard and dragon from the first school.


Tiger

The Tiger is an ancient and majestic creature of incredible power and strength. It uses its weight, momentum, and bones, combined with razor sharp claws and jaws to crush and mangle its opponent. A tiger is a very aggressive head on type of creature, yet it does not fight with clumsy brute strength, it uses controlled strength, with every ounce of primal skill at its disposal.

A tiger will never retreat, even in the face of death, it will viciously attack, even against a thousand adversaries. From the tiger we learn bravery, bone strength, tenacity and indomitable spirit. So how does one go about turning themselves into a tiger? The first thing is dedication and commitment first and foremost. Then a lot of strength training. Tons of various types of calisthenics, fingertip pushups, leaps, squats, stance holds, etc. Things that force extreme discipline. Through long rigorous hours of this type of regiment a pupil eventually, after several months, becomes strong enough to begin the next level.

The next phase consists of various types of basic hand and leg attacks. The student also begins the trade mark of tiger at this level, the claw. The claw is developed through exercises such as finger tip push ups, ripping at trees, carrying steel shot puts with the fingers and driving the claw into buckets filled with rocks and steel pellets. This is called iron palm training. The disciple of tiger slaps water and rock and hits lead filled bags and trees with his bones until the arms and legs are hard as iron pipes. At this level a student has not learned to fight against another opponent yet, even so, his body is hard as nails. He has developed basic tiger armor. Armor development and striking tough objects is a phase that lasts at least a couple of years. This stage prepares the disciple for martial combat.

The next level of tiger training involves specific tiger patterns or in other words, forms. Coupled with the martial applications of a multitude of fighting sets and sequences the practice of forms, over time, gives the disciple a vast knowledge of bone anatomy, joint manipulation or better said, how to completely rip an opponent apart! After many years, if trained properly, a disciple of tiger has enough strength in his claws to separate muscle from bone and tear it from the body.

The next level consists of exercising breath control and meditation as well as weapons training. A master of Tiger is just like a tiger in every way. He will even look like a tiger and he will have a straight to the point, no nonsense attitude in life.


Dragon

The Dragon style is without a doubt among the oldest of Kung fu systems. The concept of dragons has been deeply embedded within the human psyche for thousands of years. Every culture in the ancient world has tales of dragons interacting with, influencing and even breeding with human kind. The dragons of the west were often portrayed as evil flesh devouring, blood thirsty enemies of human kind, whereas the eastern dragons were vegetarian and bringers of peace and prosperity, also known as guardians of humankind.

The only limits of any style always depend on the individual. With the dragon style in particular one thing that must be considered first and foremost is the fact that dragons are just as diverse as humans in their movements, combat patterns and personalities, as well as any other characteristics. From a chinese martial point of view, the southern dragon emphasizes more strength and power and has a very low, slithering, creeping style that is designed to get up underneath an opponents foundation. Pretty scary! The southern dragon will also use a series of fast rushing uppercut attacks as well as joint locks and fatal pressure point attacks.

The northern dragon on the other hand will generally use longer ranged attacks with blinding speed and, being very adroit at ariel combat, can employ a barrage of flying and spinning attacks. Both the southern and the northern styles run together at the higher levels.

After a long periods of holding stances and conditioning ones bones a basic student of dragon has developed a stronger body and is now ready to learn basic twisting attacks. Coiling and uncoiling from cross legged stances are essential to the dragons style. Learning to twist the body properly can give one not only an incredible power to strike with hands and legs but also the ability to create illusion and unpredictability in the opponents mind! Once the student has developed the basic twisting attacks to some degree of proficiency he/she is now ready to learn more advanced attacks such as the dreaded dragon tail kicks as well as a multitude of other attacks. Dragon legs is an acquired level of training designed to ultimately give the student mastery over the art of kicking. In addition, the practitioner learns elusive patterns of arm and leg movements based on continuous motion, as well as the legendary razor claw.

Razor sharp claws are developed over many years by doing fingertip pushups and fingertip handstand holds. Other methods of developing the claw include lifting, holding and carrying large mouthed jugs filled with water, twisting bamboo and ripping and slashing at trees. Few ever develop the claw to this pentacle and that is very fortunate because in the hands of one impure of heart it can be a disaster! A master of the dragons claw can slash an assailant open causing critical blood loss that would be measured in pints rather than drops. It must be stated that with this level of skill the dragon has the most responsibility of all styles and must avoid combat at all costs! Only in dire circumstances will a true master of dragon open the fatal gates of chaos.

Powerfully writhing back and fourth with continuous movement, the dragon stylist leaves no fixed target. Twisting, winding and elusively luring its opponent into an aggressive pursuit, the dragon causes the aggressor to over extend himself. It is In this instant when the crafty dragon springs its fatal trap. The next question might be ‘What trap would the dragon spring?’ What ever it wants! The dragon has infinite weapons at its disposal; grasping, Locking, gouging, slashing, crushing, kicking, death roll, constriction, joint manipulation, etc the list goes on and on. A strong rule of survival is to never chase a dragon. It’s almost always a trap. On the other hand, should the dragon choose to stand and fight, it still won’t fight head on. It will use sequences of oblique and angular attacks, combined with blinding speed and deadly accuracy. Spinning, twisting, writhing, winding, coiling and springing while kicking and slashing, the master of dragon attacks with a strength and flexibility not of this world.

The deadliest thing about a dragon is its cunning and extremely deceptive mind. As a result it can turn the tides in the worst of situations. The dragon in combat, is every bit smoke and mirrors, as it is skilled in the highest levels of battle. The dragon possesses the magical ability to reflexively create within the midst of battle. In addition, the dragon is very fond of taking the fight off the battle field and deep into the unfamiliar sea of asymmetrical warfare or in other words, tactics of unequal proportion or even simpler the guerilla warfare of hand to hand combat.

[TenTigers]

run.
run away as fast and as far as you can....

[hskwarrior]

run.
run away as fast and as far as you can....

ahhhhhh :( I TRIED TO TELL EM.........

IT's about to get hot in here!!!!!!!

[burningflames]

so im looking at one poor misguided sifu and one nice wushu certified champion winner from china. too bad for the first guy

the first guy (teaching the five animals as well as mantis) said that kung fu was the alchemy of the primal self and about changing the self from within. he also teaches yoga and is into the chinese elemental philosophy

[burningflames]

this would be the link to the second school, which as you can see does san shou as well. the sifu there has reminded me that xingyi has animal forms in it

http://www.chinesemartialartscenter.com/

but man i admit, i really wanted to learn the five ancestral ancient animal kung fu. does that even exist anywhere? its on wikepedia

[hskwarrior]

The yoga part would have been the ONLY Red Flag I'd need. just sayin

[burningflames]

this would be the link to the second school, which as you can see does san shou as well. the sifu there has reminded me that xingyi has animal forms in it

http://www.chinesemartialartscenter.com/

but man i admit, i really wanted to learn the five ancestral ancient animal kung fu. does that even exist anywhere? its on wikepedia

[burningflames]

The yoga part would have been the ONLY Red Flag I'd need. just sayin

well you are now confusing me. yoga is pretty good i thought. good for the mind body spirit breath and all that, and has some pretty deep hindu psycho/spirit/god/goddess/energy/philosophy to go with it

[hskwarrior]

My advice would be DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO and not worry about what a hand full of people would think. if you not into fighting, learn the whole system.


well you are now confusing me. yoga is pretty good i thought. good for the mind body spirit breath and all that, and has some pretty deep hindu psycho/spirit/god/goddess/energy/philosophy to go with it

unless he has a decent background in regards to fighting, to me it can be street or the ring...then the yoga is ok cause its always good to be nice and limber. but, the stereotype of yoga people is not that flattering.

personally, i prefer the kinda teacher my sifu is.

[burningflames]

My advice would be DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO and not worry about what a hand full of people would think. if you not into fighting, learn the whole system.

I just want to know what constitutes five animal kung fu. is it real. is it legit. where does it come from.

how does it compare to the animals in xingyi?

how does it compare to southern tiger and crane.

are the videos posted good?

etc etc etc

[David Jamieson]

this would be the link to the second school, which as you can see does san shou as well. the sifu there has reminded me that xingyi has animal forms in it

http://www.chinesemartialartscenter.com/

but man i admit, i really wanted to learn the five ancestral ancient animal kung fu. does that even exist anywhere? its on wikepedia

Wikipedia is not a great source for where to find active martial arts.

Why are you interested in learning 5 animal kung fu?

Why are you interested in Kung Fu.

Where are you? What are the closest schools to you that you can actually attend reasonably?

[David Jamieson]

Pick a forum.
Stick with it.
multi-posting = spam
that is all

[hskwarrior]

I just want to know what constitutes five animal kung fu. is it real. is it legit. where does it come from.

how does it compare to the animals in xingyi?

how does it compare to southern tiger and crane.

are the videos posted good?

etc etc etc

wrong place really. you may get some answers, but again...wrong place really.

like TT said, "run. run away as fast and as far as you can...." unless you are destined to be in hell.

[burningflames]

I am interested in animal kung fu because the sifu said it was the most direct way to mess around with ones primal energies. He is a taoist. I like zen and Buddhism. Im in school for anthropology and taking a magic in asia class this fall. I dont like to be trapped in my own statements. I realize Buddhism has a complex history and can contribute to global or situation specific hierarchy and exploitation.

Im interested in the five animals because I think its interesting, I want to realize the ancient crane and snake styles that birthed wing chun, the tiger that birthed karate, etc. That kind of stuff fascinates me. But I dont know what is "really real" and what is just dance.

Kung fu in general is highly fascinating. The mind, body becomes more capable of overcomming obstacles and maneuvering reality.

bagua and xingyi are calling to me ALOT just from reading about them they sound very deep and exciting to train. I dont know what southern tiger or southern crane is.

I guess I think kung fu is a good way of controlling the body and learning some interesting things about chinese culture and philosophy.

[burningflames]

wrong place really. you may get some answers, but again...wrong place really.

like TT said, "run. run away as fast and as far as you can...." unless you are destined to be in hell.

where is the right place?

[hskwarrior]

I am interested in animal kung fu because the sifu said it was the most direct way to mess around with ones primal energies.

I shmell a set up.


He is a taoist. I like zen and Buddhism. Im in school for anthropology and taking a magic in asia class this fall. I dont like to be trapped in my own statements.

we got confirmation. I'm not even gonna read any further.

How funny.....LMAO


where is the right place?

KFC!!!!!

[burningflames]

no truly, i am no sifu. im just used to scientific and intellectual articles by now. I like what I know of zen and buddhism, I simply acknowledge the great mystery of what I do not know.

[burningflames]

look i came here for real advice, i posted some videos, i would like to know if they are indicative of any comparable lineage in north america or china from what was posted.

what do u think is being represented at this school.

is it anything related to shaolin five animal kung fu. is there even such a thing?

some historian or expert must know something

[burningflames]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=60921

I need advice please. I didnt see this forum

read through thread please. or mods please move the thread into this forum if possible

THANK YOU

sorry for the spam.

it was unintentional

[David Jamieson]

I am interested in animal kung fu because the sifu said it was the most direct way to mess around with ones primal energies. He is a taoist. I like zen and Buddhism. Im in school for anthropology and taking a magic in asia class this fall. I dont like to be trapped in my own statements. I realize Buddhism has a complex history and can contribute to global or situation specific hierarchy and exploitation. Taoists are not zen buddhists. "messing around with primordial energy", yeah, what does that even mean? Buddhism is a mish mash religion pretty much like all religions for teh most part. It's got it's cheese heads and it's actuals.


Im interested in the five animals because I think its interesting, I want to realize the ancient crane and snake styles that birthed wing chun, the tiger that birthed karate, etc. That kind of stuff fascinates me. But I dont know what is "really real" and what is just dance. Really real is where you bleed. Not really real is where someone says they knew a guy one time who knew this guy who could really make someone bleed if they needed to...


Kung fu in general is highly fascinating. The mind, body becomes more capable of overcomming obstacles and maneuvering reality. Any physical regimen will do that for you. Maneuvering reality? What's that?


bagua and xingyi are calling to me ALOT just from reading about them they sound very deep and exciting to train. I dont know what southern tiger or southern crane is.

I guess I think kung fu is a good way of controlling the body and learning some interesting things about chinese culture and philosophy.

Kung Fu can be had in any discipline. It literally means "skill acquired through time and effort" a world champion race car driver has his kung fu there, a world class painter has their kung fu there, heck, if you make the best bagel anywhere, then you have bagel kung fu.

Chinese culture and Philosophy is best learned AWAY from any martial arts with very few exceptions.

People who hit stuff for the most part are not often, if at all historians or learned men. We have magnitudes of literacy over the people of 100 years ago in a very broad sense.

I am sorry to inform you, that your path won't be clear until all chaotic assumption that you hold is done away with.

anywhere you walk into, make sure your cup is empty or how will they ever be able to serve you any tea?

[hskwarrior]

Nope...can't think of anyone...sorry.

the play on the words "I Don't Teach Kung Fu" and its true meaning is enlightening.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Humans are humans, not tigers or crane or anything else.
We are HUMAN and subject to human biomechanics and human psychology and all the crap that goes with it.
Period.
There is a reason that humans are o n top of the food chain and it ain't our "tiger claw and cranes beak", LOL !

[burningflames]

Taoists are not zen buddhists. "messing around with primordial energy", yeah, what does that even mean? Buddhism is a mish mash religion pretty much like all religions for teh most part. It's got it's cheese heads and it's actuals.

Really real is where you bleed. Not really real is where someone says they knew a guy one time who knew this guy who could really make someone bleed if they needed to...

Any physical regimen will do that for you. Maneuvering reality? What's that?



Kung Fu can be had in any discipline. It literally means "skill acquired through time and effort" a world champion race car driver has his kung fu there, a world class painter has their kung fu there, heck, if you make the best bagel anywhere, then you have bagel kung fu.

Chinese culture and Philosophy is best learned AWAY from any martial arts with very few exceptions.

People who hit stuff for the most part are not often, if at all historians or learned men. We have magnitudes of literacy over the people of 100 years ago in a very broad sense.

I am sorry to inform you, that your path won't be clear until all chaotic assumption that you hold is done away with.

anywhere you walk into, make sure your cup is empty or how will they ever be able to serve you any tea?

ok

i was trying to imply that my cup was empty, thats why i said all those things about not wanting to be trapped by my own words.

i dont know what it means, im just saying what he said. i dont know what some chinese people might think about some concept and how to make themselves better by practicing it

[burningflames]

maneuvering reality is all we do

zen because of karate

[burningflames]

thank you for the reply.

i guess i want to know what the first school is offering

[hskwarrior]

i guess i want to know what the first school is offering

cool. maybe you can wear a nice fancy dragon outfit with it....if you do, i will join with you.

[TenTigers]

the style most associated with the Shaolin Five Animals would be Hung-Ga.
To attend a good quality school, you would need to travel
..as far as NY
....Long Island even...

[sanjuro_ronin]

the style most associated with the Shaolin Five Animals would be Hung-Ga.
To attend a good quality school, you would need to travel
..as far as NY
....Long Island even...

There's a guy named Rik, I heard that he is not without some skill...
:p

[hskwarrior]

There's a guy named Rik, I heard that he is not without some skill...

Pls...post up video's of you or your students doing it or he doesn't have any skill. LMAO LMAO LMAO

[David Jamieson]

the style most associated with the Shaolin Five Animals would be Hung-Ga.
To attend a good quality school, you would need to travel
..as far as NY
....Long Island even...

not just one sneaky tiger...but TEN of them!


Ng Ying is mostly associated wiith:
Hung Gar
Hung Kuen
Sil Lum Tiger/Crane

These have almost same roots, but over the years have diversified with a few BIG families and many folk adaptations of the styles.

xinyi animals are not the same as sil lum 5 animals. they are more diverse.
bear, deer, horse, dragon , tiger, monkey, tuo(some kinda fish thing), rooster, sparrow hawk, swallow, snake, eagle , Tai (some kinda bird thing)

as you can see, crane and leopard are not present. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Pls...post up video's of you or your students doing it or he doesn't have any skill. LMAO LMAO LMAO

I can post a video of a tiger hunting down a gazelle !
Tiger kills gazelle with tiger claws
Rik uses tiger claw
Rick can kill a gazelle with tiger claws !!
:p

[hskwarrior]

Rik uses tiger claw
Rick can kill a gazelle with tiger claws !!

Oh man, your critical thinking took a dump and left a mess all over the floor man....FRAUD. :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Oh man, your critical thinking took a dump and left a mess all over the floor man....FRAUD. :rolleyes:

You are just afraid of logic !!
I wins the interweb !!!
:D

[hskwarrior]

You are just afraid of logic !!
I wins the interweb !!!

hmmmmm:rolleyes: IDK.....you seem a bit of the sketchy types with questionable characters. yes, i'mma keep my eye on you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

hmmmmm:rolleyes: IDK.....you seem a bit of the sketchy types with questionable characters. yes, i'mma keep my eye on you.

Are you coming on to me?
I'm gonna tell Rik !!

[burningflames]

not just one sneaky tiger...but TEN of them!


Ng Ying is mostly associated wiith:
Hung Gar
Hung Kuen
Sil Lum Tiger/Crane

These have almost same roots, but over the years have diversified with a few BIG families and many folk adaptations of the styles.

xinyi animals are not the same as sil lum 5 animals. they are more diverse.
bear, deer, horse, dragon , tiger, monkey, tuo(some kinda fish thing), rooster, sparrow hawk, swallow, snake, eagle , Tai (some kinda bird thing)

as you can see, crane and leopard are not present. :)

ok im asking the sifu of the first school what the lineage is.

thanks

[hskwarrior]

Are you coming on to me?
I'm gonna tell Rik !!

On you? In you? NO I surely WON'T.....I never!

[David Jamieson]

ok im asking the sifu of the first school what the lineage is.

thanks

Buy Wing Lams "Ha Say Fu Hung Gar" DVD's.

[burningflames]

mods... thanks for moving

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi burningflames,

You will most likely have to attend a school to see if you like it. The reason you are not really getting a straight answer here is because many of us here have been training, some in more than one system for 20-30 years or more and we have seen all kinds of nutty stuff being promoted. A lot of it is made up out of whole cloth. We call these nutty places McDojos!

The 5 animal guy has most likley made a good deal up himself, or his instructor has or his instructor's instructor. This is very common in America where people are not very well educated about Asia, Taoism, Zen, Kung Fu etc.

So unwary people like you wander into a school knowing next to nothing and get taken in by the exotic stories that are made up and totally unrealistic.

If you want to go for fun that is okay, but you should go in with eyes wide open knowing it is most likely hooey!. You will not be likely to learn REAL fighting, and most likely will not learn real traditional kung fu, but an Americanized, romantized made up style. Since you have no real previous knowledge you won't know that and think you are learning something substantial, which is unlikely.

If you want to learn something realistic about Zen, Taoism and kung fu, this guy is probablly not your guy. There are a number or good books you can purchase that will give you a good background on all these subjects. I recommend you educate yourself independently first, then look for a good school according to what you goals are.

[burningflames]

so.... how are the videos? has anyone watched them?

when asked if his lineage was hung ga or sil lum he replied:

Neither..... lineage is a distraction that paves the road to quarreling as well as elitism..Some of the best teachers are not famous.I don't talk about my teacher due to his request,he doesn't want to be bothered.What I will tell u is that I come from an arcane system of ancient asymmetrical combat that was born out of Chinese Kung-Fu which comes from India,I specialize in Chinese and Indian Dragon,Tiger,Leopard,Snake,Crane,Spider,Scorpion,L izard,Mantis,as well as many forms of Drunken,and weaponry e.t.c.

I must say I find his response intriguing

[Dale Dugas]

sounds like fiction and styles that should be in shaw brothers movies.

[Scott R. Brown]

so.... how are the videos? has anyone watched them?

when asked if his lineage was hung ga or sil lum he replied:

Neither..... lineage is a distraction that paves the road to quarreling as well as elitism..Some of the best teachers are not famous.I don't talk about my teacher due to his request,he doesn't want to be bothered.What I will tell u is that I come from an arcane system of ancient asymmetrical combat that was born out of Chinese Kung-Fu which comes from India,I specialize in Chinese and Indian Dragon,Tiger,Leopard,Snake,Crane,Spider,Scorpion,L izard,Mantis,as well as many forms of Drunken,and weaponry e.t.c.

I must say I find his response intriguing

I find this response full of $hit! He is hiding something! I guarantee it!

It is called baffling with bull$hit! You cannot verify any of his claims now. See how clever he is? He is adding to the mystique, and you, the unknowing beginner seem to be well taken in!

I have been on my cell and not on a computer, but now I am on my computer so I will check out the a video or two for you.

[Dale Dugas]

The videos are rather pretty forms that would really get someone into some serious trouble if they thought they were learning how to fight.

looks like indonesian material was mixed with strange flower hand embroidered leg kung fu material. Looks nice, but is useless in a real fight.

[burningflames]

I find this response full of $hit! He is hiding something! I guarantee it!

It is called baffling with bull$hit! You cannot verify any of his claims now. See how clever he is? He is adding to the mystique, and you, the unknowing beginner seem to be well taken in!

I have been on my cell and not on a computer, but now I am on my computer so I will check out the a video or two for you.

so what should i say to him now?

let me know what u think about the vids

[Scott R. Brown]

Video #1: Crap! Not Kung Fu, nothing that would be remotely called fighting technique!

Video #2: Crap! Parlor Trick!

Video #3: Street Mime, Street Juggling! No Kung Fu, No fighting applicable technique!

Video #4: Bad Circus trick! No Kung Fu, NO fighting applicable technique! Not even a very good training exercise!

Video 5#: ALMOST a real Kung Fu form. Not very well performed. Grade C. Poor muscle control, not very crisp. Minimal direct fighting applicable movements.

Video #6: Poorly performed Cirque du Soleil trick. Not Kung Fu! No real training or fighting benefit. Easier to do than it looks. Anyone with reasonable fitness can learn it is 3-6 months and won't really do you any good in a fight, but almost looks impressive in a YouTube Video to people who don't know that it is not that impressive.

Video #7: Another poorly executed Cirque du Soeil performance in a costume!

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME AT THIS SCHOOL!

YOU WILL NOT LEARN ANYTHING CLOSELY RELATED TO KUNG FU, TAOISM OR ZEN!!!!!!!!!

[Dale Dugas]

Why do you have to say anything to him?

Tell thank you and move on.

Where do you live?

I might be able to locate someone who has something better to offer you.

[Scott R. Brown]

so what should i say to him now?

let me know what u think about the vids

Ignore him and do not go back! He is a SCAM!

Although there ARE deluded people out there who think they are actually teaching something rare, mysterious and special!

If you want to learn parlor tricks and gymnastic non-sense just for the fun of it, never expecting to learn to real fighting, there is nothing wrong with it. Just know you are learning crap as far as Taoism, Zen, and Traditional Kung Fu is concerned!

REALLY, I am not exaggerating, Stay Away unless you want to be a laughing stock around REAL Kung Fu Guys!

[bawang]

wow such beautiful kata. verys skilled.

namaste

[Scott R. Brown]

wow such beautiful kata. verys skilled.

namaste

don't confuse the kid bawang, he doesn't know your sense of humor, LOL!!!

[burningflames]

Ignore him and do not go back! He is a SCAM!

Although there ARE deluded people out there who think they are actually teaching something rare, mysterious and special!

If you want to learn parlor tricks and gymnastic non-sense just for the fun of it, never expecting to learn to real fighting, there is nothing wrong with it. Just know you are learning crap as far as Taoism, Zen, and Traditional Kung Fu is concerned!

REALLY, I am not exaggerating, Stay Away unless you want to be a laughing stock around REAL Kung Fu Guys!


so u think the other school with xingyi and bagua and sanshou is cool?

they also offer southern tiger and crane. although im not really sure what that is.

hell they offer cha quan and han quan too as well as nanquon

but im only interested in the bagua, xingyi and southern crane and tiger. and of course the san shou training

[burningflames]

Ignore him and do not go back! He is a SCAM!

Although there ARE deluded people out there who think they are actually teaching something rare, mysterious and special!

If you want to learn parlor tricks and gymnastic non-sense just for the fun of it, never expecting to learn to real fighting, there is nothing wrong with it. Just know you are learning crap as far as Taoism, Zen, and Traditional Kung Fu is concerned!

REALLY, I am not exaggerating, Stay Away unless you want to be a laughing stock around REAL Kung Fu Guys!

maybe it would be appropriate to probe deeper as far as what his lineage is and where his training comes from, there must be a way of asking that wont hurt his feelings. he is 40 years old

[burningflames]

Why do you have to say anything to him?

Tell thank you and move on.

Where do you live?

I might be able to locate someone who has something better to offer you.

tallahassee, florida

[TenTigers]

The videos are rather pretty forms that would really get someone into some serious trouble if they thought they were learning how to fight.

looks like indonesian material was mixed with strange flower hand embroidered leg kung fu material. Looks nice, but is useless in a real fight.
Dale, you give this guy way, way too much credit.
I wouldn't insult even bad Silat or Kung-Fu by comparing it to them.

[hskwarrior]

I find this response full of $hit! He is hiding something! I guarantee it!

It is called baffling with bull$hit! You cannot verify any of his claims now. See how clever he is? He is adding to the mystique, and you, the unknowing beginner seem to be well taken in!

I have been on my cell and not on a computer, but now I am on my computer so I will check out the a video or two for you.

he's just doing a play on words rehashing the same old drama that has been going on for the last few days...he's just wording it like a story now.

[burningflames]

I should mention that there is a good moy yat ving tsun school here in town.

as well as a shotokan dojo. i was going to wing cun a while ago

most recently i was at the shotokan place.

i could train both shotokan and wing chun at once. i like both schools, the katas and raw power of shotokan, but we didnt ffull contact spar at my level. it was just me and a brown belt with the sensei, good times. all about kime and beauty of the katas, and shifting with the hips.

i could do shotokan and wing chun or the xingyi/bagua school with southern crane and tiger and tai chi and san shou

my gut actually wants to say to do shotokan and wing chun

i would miss out on whatever mysteries bagua and xingyi are offering though

[hskwarrior]

i would miss out on whatever mysteries bagua and xingyi are offering though

Man, go for the mysteries. maybe do some magic as well. good luck.

[bawang]

learn shotokan and wing chun, then learn xingyi and bagua from dvd

[burningflames]

learn shotokan and wing chun, then learn xingyi and bagua from dvd

shut up lol

[Dragkin]

Well, after reading what you've said, I think that you'd really enjoy Xingyi-Bagua. I think that those provide you with the martial and the philosophical side that you were looking for, and they both are really interesting.

Still, like others have said, its up to you to decide what you want to do. And, like others have said before, don't choose the style - choose the teacher. All styles are (more or less) effective in fighting, and all of them provide a rich philosophy - the differences between them is the teacher, and how well they can teach.

[RenDaHai]

I can't watch youtube so can't comment on the Vids,

But I would beware of any extended animal system. It sounds a little off to me. The mix of indian and chinese is not a good omen.

If you want something ancient I would go for the style XingYi. It is not so old, but its a variation on an older system 'Xin Yi quan'. Xin yi has a 1000 year history which makes it comparable to Northern Shaolins. Xing Yi is a great base because it is both simple and complex and you will find it contains the basic elements common to most northern systems. From XingYi it is very easy to make the transition into any other northern style. Plus you will find the theoretical principles in tact and very close to those of the older systems.

Whatever happens try both and see which one you enjoy more. Enjoyment of your hobby is as important as anything.

[Scott R. Brown]

so u think the other school with xingyi and bagua and sanshou is cool?

they also offer southern tiger and crane. although im not really sure what that is.

hell they offer cha quan and han quan too as well as nanquon

but im only interested in the bagua, xingyi and southern crane and tiger. and of course the san shou training


You will have to pick one and try it yourself to know for sure. Like someone above said, the personality and character of the instructor is very important. Personally, I like bagua and xingyi, but if it is a poor instructor then it could be as bad or worse as the 5 animals guy!


maybe it would be appropriate to probe deeper as far as what his lineage is and where his training comes from, there must be a way of asking that wont hurt his feelings. he is 40 years old

It sounds like you want to like this guy. If he has something you like, do it. Just recognize you are not learning REAL, meaning traditional, Kung Fu, and his knowledge of Zen and Taoism is probably rudimentary as well.

It appears you are drawn to the mysterious and mystical nature of his schtick, but know it is marketing and not real. I guarantee it. Even if he doesn't know it is a scam himself. He may actually believe that what he is doing is special, but it is not, and it isn't even very good at it!

So, as long as you remember this when in 5 or 10 years you have invested all your time and money and then find out I was right, you can take responsibility for your own mistake.

[SPJ]

it is your quest

you pick one

then grow or move on from there.

karate is dominating MMA right now.

so go to karate school first.

but I am not you.

learn xing yi and ba gua later

but I am not you.

only you may answer your own question.

---

[burningflames]

it is your quest

you pick one

then grow or move on from there.

karate is dominating MMA right now.

so go to karate school first.

but I am not you.

learn xing yi and ba gua later

but I am not you.

only you may answer your own question.

---

xingyi and bagua school does san shou too, which is very alive training. i think im looking forward to that. i dont know how they work in training all those different styles at once though

[Scott R. Brown]

xingyi and bagua school does san shou too, which is very alive training. i think im looking forward to that. i dont know how they work in training all those different styles at once though

Usually you learn the basics of one first then the other one latter, but I am sure that varies from school to school.

10 years ago I was looking at a school that taught xingyi, bagua and taiji. They made you learn taiji first, then bagua, then xinyi!

[burningflames]

Im working right now so I only practice a little. Will be going back to school and do serious ma training in fall.

The shotokan is nice, its very powerful. I just dont know if the kung fu is as powerful or as crisp as the karate. But Im looking forward to the alive training. It will be good to compare the styles.

I also dont really know what southern tiger or southern crane is.

This is a wushu school. I guess its comparable to the JKA. I just don't know enough

they do nanquon too and i know that is similar to karate. i get the feeling i will learn more at the kung fu school, but it might not be as powerful. i wonder how the overall depth of these styles compare.

[瓜娃子]

Usually you learn the basics of one first then the other one latter, but I am sure that varies from school to school.

10 years ago I was looking at a school that taught xingyi, bagua and taiji. They made you learn taiji first, then bagua, then xinyi!

That is great. Taiji is 8 moves, Xing Yi is 5 and bagua is 8 moves.

Should take 21 classes to learn everything. Then you can study wu xing and bagua on your own to know how to use.

[瓜娃子]

Here are videos from a school that reportedly teaches shaolin five animals as well as mantis, nanquon, chanquon and yoga. People on bullshido said the forms might be sloppy and undeveloped. Im 27 and want to learn kung fu. Im especially interested in the animal styles because they are so ancient to everything else like wing chun and karate. Plus im still reasonably young so I could train and condition to a high level still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWnu-mCdd7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6dmzDhKgk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtEs65KoJcA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-fm5X7_a9U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXcOnwC07QI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yLegzYON2g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85lDFGFx9BE&feature=related


No....Sifu Les can do some things...I will bet you 5k he was an acrobat or a gymnast first. He does strength and balance tricks that are good...but....he has no power and can't fight. Maybe his snakey hands work if she has two knives..then I would fear him. I also fear a small monkey with two knives or a hysterical woman. The truth is he has no foundation.

[Dale Dugas]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106992

read up on how our new member is doing something similar but not on Bullshido.

[lance]

Here are videos from a school that reportedly teaches shaolin five animals as well as mantis, nanquon, chanquon and yoga. People on bullshido said the forms might be sloppy and undeveloped. Im 27 and want to learn kung fu. Im especially interested in the animal styles because they are so ancient to everything else like wing chun and karate. Plus im still reasonably young so I could train and condition to a high level still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWnu-mCdd7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6dmzDhKgk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtEs65KoJcA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-fm5X7_a9U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXcOnwC07QI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yLegzYON2g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85lDFGFx9BE&feature=related

Burningflames ,

I agree with Tentigers , better go with the wushu school instead .

[TenTigers]

the wushu school will give you the best foundation, complete mastery over your body, and the correct "feel" for the other arts you are interested in. The other school will teach you poor body alignment, and structures which, when trained will be ingrained in you for life and ruin any chances of you ever learning any real Kung-Fu again.

[burningflames]

the wushu school will give you the best foundation, complete mastery over your body, and the correct "feel" for the other arts you are interested in. The other school will teach you poor body alignment, and structures which, when trained will be ingrained in you for life and ruin any chances of you ever learning any real Kung-Fu again.

I must say then. I am really excited. :cool:

[LFJ]

TenTigers nailed it on that last post!

The description on this video says it's a sensitivity drill... On yourself? Is that necessary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtEs65KoJcA&feature=related

Reminds me of something...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx7a3leZJJI

[wenshu]

Apparently Tallahassee has a serious MDMA abuse epidemic.