8 Ways of Bak Mei

[soulfist]

Anyone care to share their thoughts on the 8 Ways of Bak Mei? Are these practiced as techniques or concepts in the system?

Ive also seen different sets of 8 listed around, this is one of them:

1. 抽Chau (lash)
2. 割Got (cut)
3. 索Sok (search)
4. 捶Chui (beat)
5. 衝Chung (rush)
6. 鞭Been (whip)
7. 彈Daan (spring)
8. 枕Chum (sink)

[Olaf]

To me it is a list of the 8 main techniques found in the system/sets. Where does this list come from? IMO it is a mix.

[TAO YIN]

That is Bak Mei Baat Faat, 8 methods. I like Sok Sau.

Everyone seen this Bak Mei manual?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/45997124/Bak-Mei-Kung-Fu-Manual

[Olaf]

I saw part of it. It is quite theoretic

[Yum Cha]

We call those the 8 hands, but the names seemed to be either translated or mixed. They are all over the place if you want to compare.

Its just about the energies in a strike or technique, i.e., is it a whipping backfist, or a pulling trap.

[TAO YIN]

Yeah, that maual is a little theoretic for me. I like all of the definitions though.

[Olaf]

I couldn't really find myself in the definitions of some of the core principles so I didn't really read all the others. Also i think he uses the same set for a book on a different style too.

[TAO YIN]

haha! Yep, I have heard that whoever the author is uses the same explanations for a book on SPM. Which is odd to me, but maybe not to others. Not sure.

I guess he is taking apart the puzzle and putting it back together his own way. Most of his definitions are pretty ordinary for Bak Mei.

He mentions some of the different "Gings" inside Bak Mei.

The 8 methods and the different Gings are kind of cool to work on, to see if you can get different powers going on for different methods. To see what strengths and weaknesses are going on, what needs to be tuned up, etc.

I once had a student that I taught the 8 hands to from day one through padwork and sparring. Most students started of this way. Anyways, after he learned them, he wanted to learn how to move better. He kind of stopped there, and just trained those things, and trained them tirelessly. He did good with it. Finally I taught him Jik Bo. His Jik Bo was horrible no matter what, but he was the best fighter in the school. Weird but true...

[ShortBridge]

I found this manual interesting, though I admit to only skimming it. I don't claim to know anything about Bak Mai, but interesting to hear that some of this material was reused in a SPM manual. On first read through, it reminded me heavily of White Crane, which I have had some training in. The terminology is the same.

I'm intrigued by the commonality between this family of southern styles.

[soulfist]

When I learned Bak Mei I studied the theory quite deeply too, however didnt pay much attention to the "8 ways". I guess I wasnt the only one!

[Olaf]

Indeed, could be that I am missing something but the understanding & consistent application of the other principles holds more value for me personally.

[soulfist]

Fair enough, I thought so before too. But for some reason I dont like to leave something hanging, dont like having something unlearned or ignored. Is this just fluff or is it something of use that most cant see the depth of? I dont know myself and maybe its nothing but the 8 ways are listed in most every published work on Bak Mei and they seem to have stuck around for some reason.

[TAO YIN]

The 8 hands, Baat Fat, have practical meaning in application. They go with the poems. Sok Sau, is sok sau for a reason...Searching hands. For example, you search until you can catch, pull, and punch. Kind of like Lap Sau Tung Tou.

The poems well tell the practitioner which of the 8 methods goes with each move. For example, Chum Choy, is sinking punch. So, you train to sink (among other things relating to the entire combative principle inside the act of sinking) as you use that particular move to punch. That way, the practitioner is using the principles in order to get the full body expression going that Bak Mei is known for. This was explained earlier, sorry.

Cheers,

Tao

[soulfist]

1. 抽Chau (lash)
2. 割Got (cut)
3. 索Sok (search)
4. 捶Chui (beat)
5. 衝Chung (rush)
6. 鞭Been (whip)
7. 彈Daan (spring)
8. 枕Chum (sink)

I dont think the 8 Ways would equal 8 Techniques, by definition. But if they are accompanying forces or ways to techniques as maybe your trying to get at then there is considerable worth here and shouldnt be pushed aside. Could you tell me your take on at least the first three then, just so I can get my mind in the right place?

[YouKnowWho]

I'm not a Bak Mei guy but "彈Daan (spring)" also exists in Chinese wrestling as a "principle". You can use your leg to spring your opponent from his horse stance into his bow-arrow stance, or from his wide horse stance into much wider horse stance (so he will fall). You can also spring your opponent's leg off the ground.

The "抽Chau (lash)" is also used in the Zimen system, to pull your striking hand back as fast as you can as if you are pulling a thread out of your opponent's shirt.

The "鞭Been (whip)" also used in the Zimen system, to strike willow palms on your opponent's head (or neck) from both sides.

Not sure a Bak Mei guy will use those 3 principles the same way or not.

[TenTigers]

anyone know the exact definition of gau choy? It wasn't in the glossary in the book, which is funny, as it is mentioned in the book elsewhere. We use it as an angled downward hammer fist utilizing full body connection/dropping weight/short power.

[TAO YIN]

They can represent many different techniques. For teaching, some teachers show 8 basic techniques to get across the physiological actions of each way. All of the poems have these words, and sometimes a few others, to represent what is going on in the system.

For example, sometimes you have Chum Choy, and sometimes you have Chung Choy. So that is telling the practitioner to practice scenarios with a sinking punch and to also practice scenarios with a rushing punch.

I think that it is good to look at, and to figure out 8 basic techniques to work on, and go from there. To me, when I start mixing it up to much, it becomes mixed up and goes away from the idea of my understanding of Bak Mei.

I more or less try to do them like the poems, save for maybe a few moves. Done like the poems, almost all of the movements in the system are set up as 'perfect' (bad word) as any person's body would be able to do them.

Cheers,

Tao

[TAO YIN]

Ten,

Gau Choy rocks! Doesn't it mean, mellon punch? Or some such? Like how you would strike a mellon to easily break it? And the mellon representing the head? I am not sure of the Chinese meaning of Gau. Would have to see the character.

I think in most Bak Mei it is in one form; 4 doors 8 directions form. But then again, I have only seen it done in that form in a few schools.

Anyways, techniques can be trained various ways. One of the techniques that is found in Bak Mei that closely resembles Gau Choy is called Soy Kuil. A practitioner can for sure train it that way, but it takes away from the meaning of the technique, which is killing the bridge.

You find Gau Choy in most SPM.

[Firehawk4]

Does Pak Mei have San Sik Separet techniques like Wing Chun Does ? If so what are they ?

[TenTigers]

I don't have the hanzi for it. I doubt it means dog strike.
Gau also means sneaky.
It is kinda sneaky, the way it can generate so much power from such a short distance.
If you have your hands up by your head like a boxer(which, if you're infighting is what you should be doing) it comes in really quick. You can cover from a hook, and drop it right on their face, and it's right back up again. In SPM, we use our forearm to strike with too, and it's like an iron bar.

[LaterthanNever]

Sifu Kellerman always asks good questions..

I would say perhaps another romanization could be "Kou" or 'Kau" in mantis..as in the Kau/Mantis hook..but obviously not since isn't BM a southern style?